I have family who work with the numbers every day. I've listened to these ridiculous conspiracy theories for well over a year, and you people don't know one whit more than you did when you started. You lack the most basic understanding of how these cases are reported, and you couldn't be less interested in learning. I'd be a fool to keep explaining. But I am going to keep calling BS, because people are dying.Oldbear83 said:You have been very emotional on this issue the last couple months, Sam. It appears to have overridden your judgment.Sam Lowry said:Utter, complete, and total BS.Oldbear83 said:
This brings to mind the fact that 'COVID death' numbers always include deaths where the primary cause is likely a serious existing health condition.
If we use a standard for COVID deaths which includes contributing factors aside from COVID, then it's completely reasonable to use a standard for vaccine deaths which include contributing factors apart from the vaccine itself.
Vaccinated folks now angry at vaccine hestitators
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Last: 2 yr ago by 4th and Inches
Booray: "The two systems are not remotely comparable."
Actually, yes they are. They may not be a perfect fit, but its really undeniable that some people have died from the vaccine. Claiming otherwise will just drive the anti-vaccine people to claim it's a cover-up.
It's far more reasonable, and therefore more effective, to grant the fact that it happens, but even if we grant six thousand vaccine deaths (which I agree is an exaggeration), it still does not match the number of COVID deaths in just this month.
The victory is in convincing people to get vaccinated, not in feeling good about an internet spat.
Actually, yes they are. They may not be a perfect fit, but its really undeniable that some people have died from the vaccine. Claiming otherwise will just drive the anti-vaccine people to claim it's a cover-up.
It's far more reasonable, and therefore more effective, to grant the fact that it happens, but even if we grant six thousand vaccine deaths (which I agree is an exaggeration), it still does not match the number of COVID deaths in just this month.
The victory is in convincing people to get vaccinated, not in feeling good about an internet spat.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Define quietly? Like Fox, CNN, NY Times, all major networks? Everyone announced it but of course even that triggers you...HuMcK said:
They actually quietly announced in March that he got vaccinated in January.
Sam: " I've listened to these ridiculous conspiracy theories for well over a year, and you people don't know one whit more than you did when you started. You lack the most basic understanding of how these cases are reported, and you couldn't be less interested in learning."
Sadly Sam, you just proved me right.
To your first claim, no, I am not a conspiracy theorist. If you bothered to actually read my posts, you'd realize that I made a considered decision not only to get the vaccine, but also to get the second shot even after some nasty side effects from the first. I did that because I regarded the COVID threat as far more dangerous than the risk of vaccine side effects, and because my decisions affect more people than just me or even my family.
You'd also realize that I have, for a while now, been advocating for people to get the vaccine shot, and my thoughts focus on how to sway people who are reluctant to get the vaccine. Seriously Sam, you must understand that calling people names and ignoring their concerns, whether you count them as valid or not, is not going to change their mind, but instead will more likely harden their decision to resist.
As to understanding how the cases are reported, like you I have provided links to my sources and explained why they are relevant. And my last two posts included the point that COVID deaths, even just in the last month, remain a serious threat that must be addressed with effective actions. If you had paid attention to that, you might even agree.
As to 'not interested in learning', that is not only a false claim but an ad hominem, since it has nothing at all to do with the issue of convincing people that there is a lot less risk in getting the vaccine than in focusing on the limited bad effects some people have suffered. I might compare the risk of getting the vaccine to the risk of your car blowing up when you drive it next time - it's certainly possible, but for most people such a low order of probability that it's absurd. But if you have someone who is afraid of their car for that reason, calling them absurd or ignoring their fears won't change that fear. Hearing them out and offering a respectful thought on how to put the matter in perspective is going to have a much better chance of getting them to consider the vaccine as a good thing.
Sadly Sam, you just proved me right.
To your first claim, no, I am not a conspiracy theorist. If you bothered to actually read my posts, you'd realize that I made a considered decision not only to get the vaccine, but also to get the second shot even after some nasty side effects from the first. I did that because I regarded the COVID threat as far more dangerous than the risk of vaccine side effects, and because my decisions affect more people than just me or even my family.
You'd also realize that I have, for a while now, been advocating for people to get the vaccine shot, and my thoughts focus on how to sway people who are reluctant to get the vaccine. Seriously Sam, you must understand that calling people names and ignoring their concerns, whether you count them as valid or not, is not going to change their mind, but instead will more likely harden their decision to resist.
As to understanding how the cases are reported, like you I have provided links to my sources and explained why they are relevant. And my last two posts included the point that COVID deaths, even just in the last month, remain a serious threat that must be addressed with effective actions. If you had paid attention to that, you might even agree.
As to 'not interested in learning', that is not only a false claim but an ad hominem, since it has nothing at all to do with the issue of convincing people that there is a lot less risk in getting the vaccine than in focusing on the limited bad effects some people have suffered. I might compare the risk of getting the vaccine to the risk of your car blowing up when you drive it next time - it's certainly possible, but for most people such a low order of probability that it's absurd. But if you have someone who is afraid of their car for that reason, calling them absurd or ignoring their fears won't change that fear. Hearing them out and offering a respectful thought on how to put the matter in perspective is going to have a much better chance of getting them to consider the vaccine as a good thing.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
I certainly don't use Trump as my model as how to operate in any way at any level, nor do I follow the lead of anybody, unless I've done the research myself.
But, to say if Trump says to take the shot, "I'm not taking the shot".
For a minority woman to say that, very very likely leading many minorities to not take the shot,
recognizing Black Americans have the lowest vaccination rate, her statement has probably caused
many deaths, even though that wasn't the intent. The intent was to make a smarmy remark against
Trump.
However, that is called unintended consequences. If we want to blame "Evangelical Americans" for deaths because of their attitude towards the shot, Harris needs to share as much blame, because her voice is actually heard and heeded by many people. At a time when shot security needed to be at it's highest, she created shot insecurity among her constituents.
But, to say if Trump says to take the shot, "I'm not taking the shot".
For a minority woman to say that, very very likely leading many minorities to not take the shot,
recognizing Black Americans have the lowest vaccination rate, her statement has probably caused
many deaths, even though that wasn't the intent. The intent was to make a smarmy remark against
Trump.
However, that is called unintended consequences. If we want to blame "Evangelical Americans" for deaths because of their attitude towards the shot, Harris needs to share as much blame, because her voice is actually heard and heeded by many people. At a time when shot security needed to be at it's highest, she created shot insecurity among her constituents.
Dems and some on this board, will not own up to this.Forest Bueller_bf said:
I certainly don't use Trump as my model as how to operate in any way at any level, nor do I follow the lead of anybody, unless I've done the research myself.
But, to say if Trump says to take the shot, "I'm not taking the shot".
For a minority woman to say that, very very likely leading many minorities to not take the shot,
recognizing Black Americans have the lowest vaccination rate, her statement has probably caused
many deaths, even though that wasn't the intent. The intent was to make a smarmy remark against
Trump.
However, that is called unintended consequences. If we want to blame "Evangelical Americans" for deaths because of their attitude towards the shot, Harris needs to share as much blame, because her voice is actually heard and heeded by many people. At a time when shot security needed to be at it's highest, she created shot insecurity among her constituents.
Booray said:0.05%. Without enforced social distancing, masks and vaccines the percentage would be much higher.Canon said:D. C. Bear said:Porteroso said:Doc Holliday said:I've already given you the stats. Minorities are less vaccinated than whites.HuMcK said:If only we could discern some sort of pattern in this totally unpredictable and random explosion of cases pic.twitter.com/tvmBYzJcqe
— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) July 28, 2021
And why would you care if it's conservatives that are at risk because they're unvaccinated and Democrats who aren't at risk because they are vaccinated? What better way to achieve your political goals than to have a virus kill your political opposition?
Why do you guys project your "I don't care if muy political opposition does" on everyone else? Why would you think vaccinated people just don't care about the unvaccinated?
When we had measles outbreaks in 2019, it was vaccinated people that had to right the ship of antivax. You just can't count on antivaxxers to fix the problem.
I agree it should be a personal choice, but it should also be an informed one. The group of white Republicans who are the least vaxxed, are also probably the least informed. Many are even worse, misinformed. Important to fight bs with facts.
I see this on social media all the time: anti vaccine individuals talking about how whether to get vaccinated or not is an oft capitalized PERSONAL CHOICE. They seem to think that because it is a PERSONAL CHOICE that their PERSONAL CHOICE is somehow exempt from criticism based on things like, well, math. Then, they come up with arguments against being vaccinated that would not get them out of a freshman-level speech class.
LOLOLOLOLOL!!! You think you understand math. You chicken littles can't figure out that it's a mathematical certainty that COVID is deadly to statistically no one.
Here's a math test: Out of 7.7 billion people on earth, there have been 4.2 million deaths. What percentage of the earth has this 'pandemic' killed?
Dial in to richer and fatter populations who pay more for COVID deaths and you still get tiny numbers.
But The sky is falling....
How high does it have to get before you are concerned? Would 10 million dead be enough to catch your attention? Maybe 20 million, which is the number killed in WWI?
Absolute numbers don't move me. Statistics (population proportions, skewness, etc) are what matters. The singular of data isn't anecdote.
If it would not alter economic productivity appreciably to keep the world open (which it would not) then the death toll would not be great enough to destroy economies. We did to ourselves what the virus , if left to run its course unimpeded, could never have done.
Of course they won't. They will have no other reality than blaming covid on anyone opposed to democrats.fadskier said:Dems and some on this board, will not own up to this.Forest Bueller_bf said:
I certainly don't use Trump as my model as how to operate in any way at any level, nor do I follow the lead of anybody, unless I've done the research myself.
But, to say if Trump says to take the shot, "I'm not taking the shot".
For a minority woman to say that, very very likely leading many minorities to not take the shot,
recognizing Black Americans have the lowest vaccination rate, her statement has probably caused
many deaths, even though that wasn't the intent. The intent was to make a smarmy remark against
Trump.
However, that is called unintended consequences. If we want to blame "Evangelical Americans" for deaths because of their attitude towards the shot, Harris needs to share as much blame, because her voice is actually heard and heeded by many people. At a time when shot security needed to be at it's highest, she created shot insecurity among her constituents.
Rawhide said:Okay gotcha. So will you admit that some deaths were as listed as death from covid instead of death with covid?D. C. Bear said:Rawhide said:
Funny that some of our resident libs now want to make the argument that dying "with" is not the same thing as dying "from".
Trying to argue the vaccination deaths are exaggerated but the Covid death were not, no way hell, never happened, not in a million years.
So what happens when lefty companies like google and facebook demand employees get vaccinated and someone dies FROM it?
When I look at the VAERS system and see someone who died from a brain bleed following an auto accident or someone who killed themselves, it is apparent that this is not a record of deaths caused by the vaccines. So, when someone says that the auto accident victim or the person who took his or her own life died FROM the vaccine, that is not an accurate statement.
When someone says "hey, he died of pneumonia, not COVID!" That's also very often not an accurate statement. It's called COVID pneumonia for a reason.
Or were no mistakes made at all, never period, not a million years?
Admit? I have every confidence that there are errors. Every measurement system has errors. Some people will be reported as having died from COVID who did not die from COVID. Some who died from COVID will not be counted. It really doesn't matter if there are a few misclassified cases. They are not going to change the overall picture.
J.B.Katz said:Trump and Melania could have helped a lot of people by getting vaxed in public.Forest Bueller_bf said:J.B.Katz said:Felt sub-par for about 36 hours following the second Pfizer shot. Small price to pay for a much lower risk of infection with the added benefit that even if I do get COVID the symptoms will be less severe. Old enough that I was eligible early on. Got it as soon as I could.BearTruth13 said:Kudos to thinking of your wife's patients when getting vaccinated.Oldbear83 said:
Back on April 7, I got my first dose of the Moderna vaccine. I chose to do that because my wife works as a nurse at an assisted living center, and while I was confident of my immune system to resist COVID, I did not want to take the chance of causing someone else, especially someone elderly and with health issues, to catch the virus through my selfishness.
I still regard that decision as reasoned, based on the known facts and people my decision would affect, and without regard for who wanted me to get the shot.
That evening, what started as predictable arm soreness had spread across my shoulders and back, and I had body chills and felt very weak, with no appetite. I would contend that I suffered side effects from the vaccine, and while I did not require hospitalization, not being able to walk and being in constant pain for 12 hours would reasonably constitute significant side effects from the vaccine. Looking back, I had knee replacement surgery in January and likely my immune system was not as robust as I believed.
The side effects from my first shot naturally made me concerned about whether I should get the second dose, but the same conditions with my wife working to help people with compromised health conditions were still a fact, and it did not seem that just getting one dose would be effective against COVID when the clear direction was to get both, so on May 5, I got my second dose.
That evening, I again had body aches and chills, but not as severe as before and they only lasted for 4 or 5 hours. After May 6 I have not experienced any pains or concerns which I could say were caused by the vaccine.
I believe I can speak to some degree for both sides of the debate. There are valid reasons to be concerned about vaccines which, for all the media hype, are still considered experimental by the FDA and which have affected thousand of people in ways ranging from mild discomfort to serious health issues, to death. I will say that again - there are people who died from the vaccine. Not many relative to the general population, but thousands of people.
https://undercurrents723949620.wordpress.com/2021/05/22/how-many-have-died-from-covid-vaccines/
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
But that brings me back to the total population. The risk of side effects from the vaccine is statistically small, and if you do experience side effects, they are likely to be mild, and even - as in my case - if there are significant side effects they are unlikely to require hospitalization or have permanent consequences.
And of course, we have to weigh the risk of vaccine side effects to the risk of not taking the vaccine. As we are seeing, new COVID cases are showing up pretty much just among the people who did not get vaccinated, and those who did get COVID after vaccination are suffering much milder symptoms than those who did not. And the number of active COVID cases in the United States right now is 34.6 million.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home
So by reasonable measures, we should be able to say that the average person is better off getting vaccinated for COVID.
Ultimately, I believe the most reasonable course a person can take is to read up on all the facts, then consult their personal doctor if they still have concerns. There are valid reasons to be concerned for some folks, but it's also important to understand that just because something is reported somewhere does not mean that you will experience it yourself.
I also believe the CDC needs to understand the difference between lab doctors and practicing physicians. When you want to change public behavior, you need to win over people, not treat them like lab rats without a choice. Fauci's dishonesty about masks is a good example.
Early last year, Fauci came out and said that masks did not really make a difference. He later reversed himself, strongly recommended masks for everyone, and said that he said that out of fear of a run on masks which might make it hard for doctors and nurses to get the masks they needed, but this was an incredibly stupid statement. Fauci admitted he lied to the public, and regardless of the motive it opened him up to doubt from that point on. Fauci's arrogant attitude, especially post-Trump, also puts off a lot of people and - I think - is causing some people to resist cooperating with CDC recommendations because of the way the message is sent.
At this point I believe government needs to understand that the word 'require' in connection with masks will hurt compliance. A rising number of people are refusing to wear masks now, precisely because we were told last year only a few weeks would be necessary. Whether or not masks are helpful in preventing the spread in the general public is irrelevant if anger over masks is causing some people to refuse to get the vaccine.
If the CDC really wants people to get vaccinated in the 90% range, they need to win over public support, not act like people have no choice. And political leaders - on both sides - should shut the hell up. Making the vaccines political, as Biden/Harris did last year, was incredibly stupid and the only way to recover from that is to stop pretending this is East freaking Germany.
People are going to choose for themselves. Your job, feds, is to provide facts and work to persuade, not coerce.
End of rant.
I had probably a worse reaction than you did and I am significantly younger. Fever, weird dreams, chills, aches and even hives. Knocked me on my butt for 12 hours.
But I'd still suggest people take it.
Problem is there has been so much conflicting information due to a shot becoming a political football. From Biden, Harris, Trump, etc. A lot of my fellow conservatives are so dug in and have been fed so much information that they will NEVER get the shot. I think it may be their #1 fear.
That is sad because that has really allowed the virus to continue to mutate and allow liberals to continue to freak out and impose restrictions.
Libs are not to blame for COVID disinformation. Fauci is not a lib. He's a public health doc. This is an unprecedented pandemic. I think he and others did the best they could given the gravity of the situation, the unexpected challenges and constant lying and disinformation promoted by Trump as POTUS, b/c he realized COVID was going to lose him the election (and it did).
Trump ruined the CDC like he ruined the post office. Everything he lays his hands on turns to **** and chaos. Including American democracy.
COVID should not be a partisan issue. The fact that it is, is on Trump and the Trump Republicans. Romney, Cheney and the other same folks aren't antivaxxers and they aren't out there tweeting bad info 24/7 like Jim Jordan, Kevin McCarthy (who rode the shark post election) and the Gaetz/Boebert/Cruz/Hawley/MTG posse of idiots.
Like if Trump says take the shot "I'm not going to take the shot" partisan like that.
Instead he got COVID and nearly died from it and then got vaxed in private. Poor leadership.
I blame Trump a lot for the misinformation. No leadership there.
I equally blame Biden and Harris who not even 9 months ago were saying that they don't trust a vaccine created under a Trump administration and that the approval process was rushed. And yet 2 months later were somehow big advocates.
Just disgusting politics on both sides.
How do you function on a daily basis?J.B.Katz said:
It's a cynical political calculation of Republicans and right-wing news media pundits.
They are discouraging vaccination because they know low vaccinations rates will hamper our COVID recovery, both in terms of new cases and economic recovery as people return to full employment.
A good COVID recovery will reflect well on Biden and the Democrats in the midterms. They've promoted vaccination and the Biden admin got vaccines out to most Americans after a horrible transition where Trump pouted on the golf course and wouldn't cooperate and left no vaccines in the pipeline. Dude's still pouting.
COVID outbreaks are politically convenient for them because they trigger the need for unpopular measures like masks, which means Republicans can bash Democrats for any health-related mandates coming down the pike.
I'm sickened that my former party cares more about staying in power than about American lives. That its leaders are willing to incur tremendous costs in terms of death and ecomomic misery for all Americans means they shouldn't be leaders.
I'm losing hope that the sane Republicans like Cheney and Romney will work with Democrats to stop this result.
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Old enough not to call an old man "princess"Rawhide said:LOL.... how old are you?Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:
Not into your gender bending ways but I certainly respect your rights
Old enough not to name myself after a gay cowboy comic book character.
Old enough not to get genders confused,
You are guilty of all three.
Be careful Rawhide. Its a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world out there.
I have found theres only two ways to go:
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
Same way you probably do. One foot in front of the other.GrowlTowel said:How do you function on a daily basis?J.B.Katz said:
It's a cynical political calculation of Republicans and right-wing news media pundits.
They are discouraging vaccination because they know low vaccinations rates will hamper our COVID recovery, both in terms of new cases and economic recovery as people return to full employment.
A good COVID recovery will reflect well on Biden and the Democrats in the midterms. They've promoted vaccination and the Biden admin got vaccines out to most Americans after a horrible transition where Trump pouted on the golf course and wouldn't cooperate and left no vaccines in the pipeline. Dude's still pouting.
COVID outbreaks are politically convenient for them because they trigger the need for unpopular measures like masks, which means Republicans can bash Democrats for any health-related mandates coming down the pike.
I'm sickened that my former party cares more about staying in power than about American lives. That its leaders are willing to incur tremendous costs in terms of death and ecomomic misery for all Americans means they shouldn't be leaders.
I'm losing hope that the sane Republicans like Cheney and Romney will work with Democrats to stop this result.
Life is very good. I do work I love, am fortunate to be in a marriage of 40+ years duration, have grown children who live nearby, good health and material comfort.
We just have very fundamental disagreements on religion and politics.
Believing anybody who doesn't share your belief system is mentally deranged is just silly. But so was believing Trump would be good for America in any way, so your capacity for self-delusion is obviously quite high.
Anybody who isn't worried about our toxic political climate isn't paying attention.
J.B.Katz said:Same way you probably do. One foot in front of the other.GrowlTowel said:How do you function on a daily basis?J.B.Katz said:
It's a cynical political calculation of Republicans and right-wing news media pundits.
They are discouraging vaccination because they know low vaccinations rates will hamper our COVID recovery, both in terms of new cases and economic recovery as people return to full employment.
A good COVID recovery will reflect well on Biden and the Democrats in the midterms. They've promoted vaccination and the Biden admin got vaccines out to most Americans after a horrible transition where Trump pouted on the golf course and wouldn't cooperate and left no vaccines in the pipeline. Dude's still pouting.
COVID outbreaks are politically convenient for them because they trigger the need for unpopular measures like masks, which means Republicans can bash Democrats for any health-related mandates coming down the pike.
I'm sickened that my former party cares more about staying in power than about American lives. That its leaders are willing to incur tremendous costs in terms of death and ecomomic misery for all Americans means they shouldn't be leaders.
I'm losing hope that the sane Republicans like Cheney and Romney will work with Democrats to stop this result.
Life is very good. I do work I love, am fortunate to be in a marriage of 40+ years duration, have grown children who live nearby, good health and material comfort.
We just have very fundamental disagreements on religion and politics.
Believing anybody who doesn't share your belief system is mentally deranged is just silly. But so was believing Trump would be good for America in any way, so your capacity for self-delusion is obviously quite high.
Anybody who isn't worried about our toxic political climate isn't paying attention.
As bad as Trump was as a person, I think Harris and Biden are equally bad leaders. Do they bear no responsibility? Despite politicizing vaccinations as well?
LOL.... just because you're old doesn't mean you're an adult.Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:Old enough not to call an old man "princess"Rawhide said:LOL.... how old are you?Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:
Not into your gender bending ways but I certainly respect your rights
Old enough not to name myself after a gay cowboy comic book character.
Old enough not to get genders confused,
You are guilty of all three.
Be careful Rawhide. Its a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world out there.
FYI... Rawhide was Reagan's secret service code name, hence why I chose it.
Unless you think I'm just "eat up" with Trump... would it make you happier if I changed my nick to Mogul?
Which is exactly what you do on a daily basis. You know, just like the next sentence you typed.J.B.Katz said:Same way you probably do. One foot in front of the other.GrowlTowel said:How do you function on a daily basis?J.B.Katz said:
It's a cynical political calculation of Republicans and right-wing news media pundits.
They are discouraging vaccination because they know low vaccinations rates will hamper our COVID recovery, both in terms of new cases and economic recovery as people return to full employment.
A good COVID recovery will reflect well on Biden and the Democrats in the midterms. They've promoted vaccination and the Biden admin got vaccines out to most Americans after a horrible transition where Trump pouted on the golf course and wouldn't cooperate and left no vaccines in the pipeline. Dude's still pouting.
COVID outbreaks are politically convenient for them because they trigger the need for unpopular measures like masks, which means Republicans can bash Democrats for any health-related mandates coming down the pike.
I'm sickened that my former party cares more about staying in power than about American lives. That its leaders are willing to incur tremendous costs in terms of death and ecomomic misery for all Americans means they shouldn't be leaders.
I'm losing hope that the sane Republicans like Cheney and Romney will work with Democrats to stop this result.
Life is very good. I do work I love, am fortunate to be in a marriage of 40+ years duration, have grown children who live nearby, good health and material comfort.
We just have very fundamental disagreements on religion and politics.
Believing anybody who doesn't share your belief system is mentally deranged is just silly. But so was believing Trump would be good for America in any way, so your capacity for self-delusion is obviously quite high.
Anybody who isn't worried about our toxic political climate isn't paying attention.
You're a loon jinxy.
Fine, but you have beliefs that are not based in reality. You stated above that Republicans want COVID outbreaks because it triggers a political response that will net them power. That is one of the goofies things I have ever read.J.B.Katz said:Same way you probably do. One foot in front of the other.GrowlTowel said:How do you function on a daily basis?J.B.Katz said:
It's a cynical political calculation of Republicans and right-wing news media pundits.
They are discouraging vaccination because they know low vaccinations rates will hamper our COVID recovery, both in terms of new cases and economic recovery as people return to full employment.
A good COVID recovery will reflect well on Biden and the Democrats in the midterms. They've promoted vaccination and the Biden admin got vaccines out to most Americans after a horrible transition where Trump pouted on the golf course and wouldn't cooperate and left no vaccines in the pipeline. Dude's still pouting.
COVID outbreaks are politically convenient for them because they trigger the need for unpopular measures like masks, which means Republicans can bash Democrats for any health-related mandates coming down the pike.
I'm sickened that my former party cares more about staying in power than about American lives. That its leaders are willing to incur tremendous costs in terms of death and ecomomic misery for all Americans means they shouldn't be leaders.
I'm losing hope that the sane Republicans like Cheney and Romney will work with Democrats to stop this result.
Life is very good. I do work I love, am fortunate to be in a marriage of 40+ years duration, have grown children who live nearby, good health and material comfort.
We just have very fundamental disagreements on religion and politics.
Believing anybody who doesn't share your belief system is mentally deranged is just silly. But so was believing Trump would be good for America in any way, so your capacity for self-delusion is obviously quite high.
Anybody who isn't worried about our toxic political climate isn't paying attention.
It is one thing to have a difference of opinion and rational minds often disagree. But, there is nothing close to rational in your opinion.
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
GrowlTowel said:Fine, but you have beliefs that are not based in reality. You stated above that Republicans want COVID outbreaks because it triggers a political response that will net them power. That is one of the goofies things I have ever read.J.B.Katz said:Same way you probably do. One foot in front of the other.GrowlTowel said:How do you function on a daily basis?J.B.Katz said:
It's a cynical political calculation of Republicans and right-wing news media pundits.
They are discouraging vaccination because they know low vaccinations rates will hamper our COVID recovery, both in terms of new cases and economic recovery as people return to full employment.
A good COVID recovery will reflect well on Biden and the Democrats in the midterms. They've promoted vaccination and the Biden admin got vaccines out to most Americans after a horrible transition where Trump pouted on the golf course and wouldn't cooperate and left no vaccines in the pipeline. Dude's still pouting.
COVID outbreaks are politically convenient for them because they trigger the need for unpopular measures like masks, which means Republicans can bash Democrats for any health-related mandates coming down the pike.
I'm sickened that my former party cares more about staying in power than about American lives. That its leaders are willing to incur tremendous costs in terms of death and ecomomic misery for all Americans means they shouldn't be leaders.
I'm losing hope that the sane Republicans like Cheney and Romney will work with Democrats to stop this result.
Life is very good. I do work I love, am fortunate to be in a marriage of 40+ years duration, have grown children who live nearby, good health and material comfort.
We just have very fundamental disagreements on religion and politics.
Believing anybody who doesn't share your belief system is mentally deranged is just silly. But so was believing Trump would be good for America in any way, so your capacity for self-delusion is obviously quite high.
Anybody who isn't worried about our toxic political climate isn't paying attention.
It is one thing to have a difference of opinion and rational minds often disagree. But, there is nothing close to rational in your opinion.
Rep. Dan Crenshaw is on Fox News telling Americans not to comply with any more "lockdowns" or "mandates" stemming from the ongoing (and currently worsening!) pandemic pic.twitter.com/o1UqcDK3bw
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) July 29, 2021
Give me one good reason to support another lockdown?J.B.Katz said:GrowlTowel said:Fine, but you have beliefs that are not based in reality. You stated above that Republicans want COVID outbreaks because it triggers a political response that will net them power. That is one of the goofies things I have ever read.J.B.Katz said:Same way you probably do. One foot in front of the other.GrowlTowel said:How do you function on a daily basis?J.B.Katz said:
It's a cynical political calculation of Republicans and right-wing news media pundits.
They are discouraging vaccination because they know low vaccinations rates will hamper our COVID recovery, both in terms of new cases and economic recovery as people return to full employment.
A good COVID recovery will reflect well on Biden and the Democrats in the midterms. They've promoted vaccination and the Biden admin got vaccines out to most Americans after a horrible transition where Trump pouted on the golf course and wouldn't cooperate and left no vaccines in the pipeline. Dude's still pouting.
COVID outbreaks are politically convenient for them because they trigger the need for unpopular measures like masks, which means Republicans can bash Democrats for any health-related mandates coming down the pike.
I'm sickened that my former party cares more about staying in power than about American lives. That its leaders are willing to incur tremendous costs in terms of death and ecomomic misery for all Americans means they shouldn't be leaders.
I'm losing hope that the sane Republicans like Cheney and Romney will work with Democrats to stop this result.
Life is very good. I do work I love, am fortunate to be in a marriage of 40+ years duration, have grown children who live nearby, good health and material comfort.
We just have very fundamental disagreements on religion and politics.
Believing anybody who doesn't share your belief system is mentally deranged is just silly. But so was believing Trump would be good for America in any way, so your capacity for self-delusion is obviously quite high.
Anybody who isn't worried about our toxic political climate isn't paying attention.
It is one thing to have a difference of opinion and rational minds often disagree. But, there is nothing close to rational in your opinion.Rep. Dan Crenshaw is on Fox News telling Americans not to comply with any more "lockdowns" or "mandates" stemming from the ongoing (and currently worsening!) pandemic pic.twitter.com/o1UqcDK3bw
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) July 29, 2021
The data proves they were unnecessary.
I will give you three:Doc Holliday said:Give me one good reason to support another lockdown?J.B.Katz said:GrowlTowel said:Fine, but you have beliefs that are not based in reality. You stated above that Republicans want COVID outbreaks because it triggers a political response that will net them power. That is one of the goofies things I have ever read.J.B.Katz said:Same way you probably do. One foot in front of the other.GrowlTowel said:How do you function on a daily basis?J.B.Katz said:
It's a cynical political calculation of Republicans and right-wing news media pundits.
They are discouraging vaccination because they know low vaccinations rates will hamper our COVID recovery, both in terms of new cases and economic recovery as people return to full employment.
A good COVID recovery will reflect well on Biden and the Democrats in the midterms. They've promoted vaccination and the Biden admin got vaccines out to most Americans after a horrible transition where Trump pouted on the golf course and wouldn't cooperate and left no vaccines in the pipeline. Dude's still pouting.
COVID outbreaks are politically convenient for them because they trigger the need for unpopular measures like masks, which means Republicans can bash Democrats for any health-related mandates coming down the pike.
I'm sickened that my former party cares more about staying in power than about American lives. That its leaders are willing to incur tremendous costs in terms of death and ecomomic misery for all Americans means they shouldn't be leaders.
I'm losing hope that the sane Republicans like Cheney and Romney will work with Democrats to stop this result.
Life is very good. I do work I love, am fortunate to be in a marriage of 40+ years duration, have grown children who live nearby, good health and material comfort.
We just have very fundamental disagreements on religion and politics.
Believing anybody who doesn't share your belief system is mentally deranged is just silly. But so was believing Trump would be good for America in any way, so your capacity for self-delusion is obviously quite high.
Anybody who isn't worried about our toxic political climate isn't paying attention.
It is one thing to have a difference of opinion and rational minds often disagree. But, there is nothing close to rational in your opinion.Rep. Dan Crenshaw is on Fox News telling Americans not to comply with any more "lockdowns" or "mandates" stemming from the ongoing (and currently worsening!) pandemic pic.twitter.com/o1UqcDK3bw
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) July 29, 2021
The data proves they were unnecessary.
1. "Emergency" voting measures must be kept in place due to Covid.
2. "Emergency" voting measures must be kept in place due to Covid.
3. "Emergency" voting measures must be kept in place due to Covid.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"
-- Barack Obama
-- Barack Obama
actually, it is currently split between being viewed the same but in different ways and the post Covid antibodies are better than the vax, especially against the Delta.Chamberman said:The science is inconclusive on this4th and Inches said:
every person who had Covid is equal to vaxed.
Oldbear83 said:And to be fair, there are people who have died from other vaccines; there is no vaccine which is 100.00% safe.Forest Bueller_bf said:Probably not thousands, but there are people who died because they took the vaccine and the way it interacted with their body. EVERY shot has an interaction. Unfortunately for a very rare few, the interaction is deadly or debilitating. To deny that would be to deny the truth.D. C. Bear said:Oldbear83 said:Truth. As I said, a very small number compared to COVID deaths but still a fact.Sam Lowry said:Absolute bull****.Oldbear83 said:
I will say that again - there are people who died from the vaccine. Not many relative to the general population, but thousands of people.
Probably not in the thousands given the VAERS numbers, but definitely a non zero number.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4599698/
I think we can acknowledge the risk, if we make sure to show its relative threat. Pretending there is no risk is not going to address the concern, but a longer discussion which shows the bigger picture may well be more effective in convincing people to get the vaccine.
While many of us have had the vax and what you say is true, it is undeniable this is the deadliest vaccine man has ever created.
Yes. Unfortunately the Left and the Covid Taliban will NEVER acknowledge this fact. The Covid vaccines are perfect. Bigly! LOL!!!!Baylor3216 said:Oldbear83 said:And to be fair, there are people who have died from other vaccines; there is no vaccine which is 100.00% safe.Forest Bueller_bf said:Probably not thousands, but there are people who died because they took the vaccine and the way it interacted with their body. EVERY shot has an interaction. Unfortunately for a very rare few, the interaction is deadly or debilitating. To deny that would be to deny the truth.D. C. Bear said:Oldbear83 said:Truth. As I said, a very small number compared to COVID deaths but still a fact.Sam Lowry said:Absolute bull****.Oldbear83 said:
I will say that again - there are people who died from the vaccine. Not many relative to the general population, but thousands of people.
Probably not in the thousands given the VAERS numbers, but definitely a non zero number.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4599698/
I think we can acknowledge the risk, if we make sure to show its relative threat. Pretending there is no risk is not going to address the concern, but a longer discussion which shows the bigger picture may well be more effective in convincing people to get the vaccine.
While many of us have had the vax and what you say is true, it is undeniable this is the deadliest vaccine man has ever created.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"
-- Barack Obama
-- Barack Obama
Not sure about that. One thing scientists and the government have in common, is that mistakes are often buried.Baylor3216 said:Oldbear83 said:And to be fair, there are people who have died from other vaccines; there is no vaccine which is 100.00% safe.Forest Bueller_bf said:Probably not thousands, but there are people who died because they took the vaccine and the way it interacted with their body. EVERY shot has an interaction. Unfortunately for a very rare few, the interaction is deadly or debilitating. To deny that would be to deny the truth.D. C. Bear said:Oldbear83 said:Truth. As I said, a very small number compared to COVID deaths but still a fact.Sam Lowry said:Absolute bull****.Oldbear83 said:
I will say that again - there are people who died from the vaccine. Not many relative to the general population, but thousands of people.
Probably not in the thousands given the VAERS numbers, but definitely a non zero number.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4599698/
I think we can acknowledge the risk, if we make sure to show its relative threat. Pretending there is no risk is not going to address the concern, but a longer discussion which shows the bigger picture may well be more effective in convincing people to get the vaccine.
While many of us have had the vax and what you say is true, it is undeniable this is the deadliest vaccine man has ever created.
And pre-internet, it was often easy for a lab or director to make bad news go away if it didn't hit the news.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
J.B.Katz said:GrowlTowel said:How do you function on a daily basis?J.B.Katz said:
It's a cynical political calculation of Republicans and right-wing news media pundits.
They are discouraging vaccination because they know low vaccinations rates will hamper our COVID recovery, both in terms of new cases and economic recovery as people return to full employment.
A good COVID recovery will reflect well on Biden and the Democrats in the midterms. They've promoted vaccination and the Biden admin got vaccines out to most Americans after a horrible transition where Trump pouted on the golf course and wouldn't cooperate and left no vaccines in the pipeline. Dude's still pouting.
COVID outbreaks are politically convenient for them because they trigger the need for unpopular measures like masks, which means Republicans can bash Democrats for any health-related mandates coming down the pike.
I'm sickened that my former party cares more about staying in power than about American lives. That its leaders are willing to incur tremendous costs in terms of death and ecomomic misery for all Americans means they shouldn't be leaders.
I'm losing hope that the sane Republicans like Cheney and Romney will work with Democrats to stop this result.
1) Believing anybody who doesn't share your belief system is mentally deranged is just silly. But so was believing Trump would be good for America in any way, 2) so your capacity for self-delusion is obviously quite high.
I mean seriously, sentence 1, followed by sentence 2. Do you not kind of get you engage in sentence one continually, as you follow up by committing sentence one, in sentence two?
https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-covid-19-spreads-among-unvaccinated-people-20210729.htmlDoc Holliday said:Give me one good reason to support another lockdown?J.B.Katz said:GrowlTowel said:Fine, but you have beliefs that are not based in reality. You stated above that Republicans want COVID outbreaks because it triggers a political response that will net them power. That is one of the goofies things I have ever read.J.B.Katz said:Same way you probably do. One foot in front of the other.GrowlTowel said:How do you function on a daily basis?J.B.Katz said:
It's a cynical political calculation of Republicans and right-wing news media pundits.
They are discouraging vaccination because they know low vaccinations rates will hamper our COVID recovery, both in terms of new cases and economic recovery as people return to full employment.
A good COVID recovery will reflect well on Biden and the Democrats in the midterms. They've promoted vaccination and the Biden admin got vaccines out to most Americans after a horrible transition where Trump pouted on the golf course and wouldn't cooperate and left no vaccines in the pipeline. Dude's still pouting.
COVID outbreaks are politically convenient for them because they trigger the need for unpopular measures like masks, which means Republicans can bash Democrats for any health-related mandates coming down the pike.
I'm sickened that my former party cares more about staying in power than about American lives. That its leaders are willing to incur tremendous costs in terms of death and ecomomic misery for all Americans means they shouldn't be leaders.
I'm losing hope that the sane Republicans like Cheney and Romney will work with Democrats to stop this result.
Life is very good. I do work I love, am fortunate to be in a marriage of 40+ years duration, have grown children who live nearby, good health and material comfort.
We just have very fundamental disagreements on religion and politics.
Believing anybody who doesn't share your belief system is mentally deranged is just silly. But so was believing Trump would be good for America in any way, so your capacity for self-delusion is obviously quite high.
Anybody who isn't worried about our toxic political climate isn't paying attention.
It is one thing to have a difference of opinion and rational minds often disagree. But, there is nothing close to rational in your opinion.Rep. Dan Crenshaw is on Fox News telling Americans not to comply with any more "lockdowns" or "mandates" stemming from the ongoing (and currently worsening!) pandemic pic.twitter.com/o1UqcDK3bw
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) July 29, 2021
The data proves they were unnecessary.
https://www.wsmv.com/news/conservative-nashville-radio-host-phil-valentine-now-on-a-ventilator/article_e6f76b8c-efe7-11eb-96b5-47f675af751a.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/29/health/cdc-masks-vaccinated-transmission.html
Wonder why the post oiffice got a pass
possible explanation
More here
Unions Split Over Vaccine Mandates as Variant Threatens Workers
The emerging divide came into focus as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced new mask-wearing guidelines for vaccinated people in high-risk areas, and a coalition of nearly five dozen medical groupsrepresenting workers in unionized health-care fieldscalled for mandatory shots in health-care settings to slow the Delta variant's spread.
The question of mandatory vaccines is vexing union leaders, who since the start of the pandemic have advocated for workplace safety measures but now must also be responsive to a minority of members who don't want to get inoculated. They're also worried about the broader implications of letting employers impose invasive medical requirements for workers without first engaging in formal bargaining.
"There's a larger principle that many unions are reacting to," said Paul Clark, a labor and employment professor at Pennsylvania State University who has written about nurses' unions. "The whole purpose of unions is to give workers some control and some voice about what happens in the workplace."
possible explanation
For our safety @JoeBiden issues federal mask mandate - depending on the size of your #union. Priorities you know.
— Chris Paul (@ChrisAPaul) July 30, 2021
More here
Unions Split Over Vaccine Mandates as Variant Threatens Workers
The emerging divide came into focus as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced new mask-wearing guidelines for vaccinated people in high-risk areas, and a coalition of nearly five dozen medical groupsrepresenting workers in unionized health-care fieldscalled for mandatory shots in health-care settings to slow the Delta variant's spread.
The question of mandatory vaccines is vexing union leaders, who since the start of the pandemic have advocated for workplace safety measures but now must also be responsive to a minority of members who don't want to get inoculated. They're also worried about the broader implications of letting employers impose invasive medical requirements for workers without first engaging in formal bargaining.
"There's a larger principle that many unions are reacting to," said Paul Clark, a labor and employment professor at Pennsylvania State University who has written about nurses' unions. "The whole purpose of unions is to give workers some control and some voice about what happens in the workplace."
Quietly as in just a written statement, months after he got the vaccine. Not even one of his ridiculous faux-tweet press releases, just an anodyne statement released to news outlets that Trump has conditioned his credulous dupes to ignore. Is that really so hard to grasp, or is it your position that they were as public as they could be about it?
You know what else doesn't get people to consider the vaccine? Lies. I'm glad you got vaccinated. It doesn't give you any special credibility when repeating misinformation.
Once again Sam, you really ought to consider what is said in other posts, not ignore 98% of it and pop off some non sequitur so you can tell yourself you "won".Sam Lowry said:
You know what else doesn't get people to consider the vaccine? Lies. I'm glad you got vaccinated. It doesn't give you any special credibility when repeating misinformation.
I don't lie.
You not liking what I post does not make me wrong at all. It's especially disappointing you continue to miss the point that getting the doubters to get vaccinated against COVID depends on winning their trust through discussion, not useless rancor and hubris.
If you want to know why the doubters won't get vaccinated, look in the mirror. Your bitter arrogance drives them away.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
No, what makes you wrong is that you don't know the difference between fact and opinion. That there are thousands of vaccine deaths is an opinion. That VAERS lists thousands of vaccine deaths is a lie. For example.Oldbear83 said:Once again Sam, you really ought to consider what is said in other posts, not ignore 98% of it and pop off some non sequitur so you can tell yourself you "won".Sam Lowry said:
You know what else doesn't get people to consider the vaccine? Lies. I'm glad you got vaccinated. It doesn't give you any special credibility when repeating misinformation.
I don't lie.
You not liking what I post does not make me wrong at all. It's especially disappointing you continue to miss the point that getting the doubters to get vaccinated against COVID depends on winning their trust through discussion, not useless rancor and hubris.
If you want to know why the doubters won't get vaccinated, look in the mirror. Your bitter arrogance drives them away.
My position is that I don't follow the actions or need the president to tell me what to do. If it's health related, I'll talk to my dr.HuMcK said:
Quietly as in just a written statement, months after he got the vaccine. Not even one of his ridiculous faux-tweet press releases, just an anodyne statement released to news outlets that Trump has conditioned his credulous dupes to ignore. Is that really so hard to grasp, or is it your position that they were as public as they could be about it?
Maybe you should think for yourself and not have to have a politician tell you what to do.
Why no one should watch Laura Ingraham:
Dershowitz: I have the right to get on an airplane and know that everybody on that airplane has been vaccinated or testedhttps://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1420934369695334401?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Dershowitz: I have the right to get on an airplane and know that everybody on that airplane has been vaccinated or testedhttps://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1420934369695334401?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Do yourself a favor. Read what I wrote and reply to that, not what you imagine I said.Sam Lowry said:No, what makes you wrong is that you don't know the difference between fact and opinion. That there are thousands of vaccine deaths is an opinion. That VAERS lists thousands of vaccine deaths is a lie. For example.Oldbear83 said:Once again Sam, you really ought to consider what is said in other posts, not ignore 98% of it and pop off some non sequitur so you can tell yourself you "won".Sam Lowry said:
You know what else doesn't get people to consider the vaccine? Lies. I'm glad you got vaccinated. It doesn't give you any special credibility when repeating misinformation.
I don't lie.
You not liking what I post does not make me wrong at all. It's especially disappointing you continue to miss the point that getting the doubters to get vaccinated against COVID depends on winning their trust through discussion, not useless rancor and hubris.
If you want to know why the doubters won't get vaccinated, look in the mirror. Your bitter arrogance drives them away.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Baylor3216 said:Oldbear83 said:And to be fair, there are people who have died from other vaccines; there is no vaccine which is 100.00% safe.Forest Bueller_bf said:Probably not thousands, but there are people who died because they took the vaccine and the way it interacted with their body. EVERY shot has an interaction. Unfortunately for a very rare few, the interaction is deadly or debilitating. To deny that would be to deny the truth.D. C. Bear said:Oldbear83 said:Truth. As I said, a very small number compared to COVID deaths but still a fact.Sam Lowry said:Absolute bull****.Oldbear83 said:
I will say that again - there are people who died from the vaccine. Not many relative to the general population, but thousands of people.
Probably not in the thousands given the VAERS numbers, but definitely a non zero number.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4599698/
I think we can acknowledge the risk, if we make sure to show its relative threat. Pretending there is no risk is not going to address the concern, but a longer discussion which shows the bigger picture may well be more effective in convincing people to get the vaccine.
While many of us have had the vax and what you say is true, it is undeniable this is the deadliest vaccine man has ever created.
I have seen no data to indicate deaths from COVID vaccines occur at rates significantly higher than those of any other vaccines. Maybe you have some data on this?