Natural immunity to covid is powerful. Policymakers seem afraid to say so

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Doc Holliday
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It's okay to have an incorrect scientific hypothesis. But when new data proves it wrong, you have to adapt. Unfortunately, many elected leaders and public health officials have held on far too long to the hypothesis that natural immunity offers unreliable protection against covid-19 a contention that is being rapidly debunked by science.

More than 15 studies have demonstrated the power of immunity acquired by previously having the virus. A 700,000-person study from Israel two weeks ago found that those who had experienced prior infections were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated. This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that "individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination." And in May, a Washington University study found that even a mild covid infection resulted in long-lasting immunity.

So, the emerging science suggests that natural immunity is as good as or better than vaccine-induced immunity. That's why it's so frustrating that the Biden administration has repeatedly argued that immunity conferred by vaccines is preferable to immunity caused by natural infection, as NIH director Francis Collins told Fox News host told Bret Baier a few weeks ago. That rigid adherence to an outdated theory is also reflected in President Biden's recent announcement that large companies must require their employees to get vaccinated or submit to regular testing, regardless of whether they previously had the virus.

Downplaying the power of natural immunity has had deadly consequences. In January, February and March, we wasted scarce vaccine doses on millions of people who previously had covid. If we had asked Americans who were already protected by natural immunity to step aside in the vaccine line, tens of thousands of lives could have been saved. This is not just in hindsight is 20/20; many of us were vehemently arguing and writing at the time for such a rationing strategy.

One reason public health officials may be afraid to acknowledge the effectiveness of natural immunity is that they fear it will lead some to choose getting the infection over vaccination. That's a legitimate concern. But we can encourage all Americans to get vaccinated while still being honest about the data. In my clinical experience, I have found patients to be extremely forgiving with evolving data if you are honest and transparent with them. Yet, when asked the common question, "I've recovered from covid, is it absolutely essential that I get vaccinated?" many public health officials have put aside the data and responded with a synchronized "yes," even as studies have shown that reinfections are rare and often asymptomatic or mild when they do occur.

The tide may finally be shifting, as pressure has grown on federal officials. Last week on CNN, Anthony S. Fauci, the nation's top infectious-disease specialist, hinted that the government may be rethinking its stance on natural immunity, saying, "I think that is something that we need to sit down and discuss seriously." Some large medical centers, like Spectrum Health in Grand Rapids, Mich., have already announced they will recognize natural immunity for their vaccine requirements. Some Republican governors have picked up on public frustration over how the scientific guidance is inconsistent with the data, with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis accusing the Biden administration of "not following science" by crafting its vaccine mandate without taking into consideration "infection-conferred immunity."
Booster shots won't stop the delta variant. Here's the math to prove it.

The current Centers for Disease Control and Prevention position about vaccinating children also dismisses the benefits of natural immunity. The Los Angeles County School District recently mandated vaccines for students ages 12 and up who want to learn in person. But young people are less likely to suffer severe or long-lasting symptoms from covid-19 than adults, and have experienced rare heart complications from the vaccines. In Israel, heart inflammation has been observed in between 1 in 3,000 and 1 in 6,000 males age 16 to 24; the CDC has confirmed 854 reports nationally in people age 30 and younger who got the vaccine.

A second dose of the two-shot mRNA vaccine like that produced by Pfizer and Moderna may not even be necessary in children who had covid. Since February, Israel's Health Ministry has been recommending that anyone, adult or adolescent, who has recovered from covid-19 receive a only single mRNA vaccine dose, instead of two. Even though the risk of severe illness during a reinfection is exceedingly low, some data has demonstrated a slight benefit to one dose in this situation. Other countries use a similar approach. The United States could adopt this strategy now as a reasonable next step in transitioning from an overly rigid to a more flexible vaccine requirement policy. For comparison, the CDC has long recommended that kids do not get the chickenpox vaccine if they had chickenpox infection in the past.

The incorrect hypothesis that natural immunity is unreliable has resulted in the loss of thousands of American lives, avoidable vaccine complications, and damaged the credibility of public health officials. Given the recent mandate announcement by the White House, it would be good for our public health leaders to show humility by acknowledging that the hypothesis they repeatedly trumpeted was not only wrong, but it may be harmful. Let's all come together around the mounting body of scientific literature and real-world clinical experience that is telling us not to require the full vaccine regimen in people who recovered from covid in the past. Public health officials changing their position on natural immunity, after so much hostility toward the idea, would go a long way in rebuilding the public trust.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/
Forest Bueller_bf
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Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.

No other group will be close.

Osodecentx
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Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.

No other group will be close.
Don't vaccines produce antibodies to Covid? How do you distinguish between vaccine induced antibodies and disease induced antibodies?
Doc Holliday
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Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.

No other group will be close.


Why isn't legacy media or the federal government factoring this into the equation in regards to discussions on Covid mitigation?

We're talking 44.5M people.
D. C. Bear
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Osodecentx said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.

No other group will be close.
Don't vaccines produce antibodies to Covid? How do you distinguish between vaccine induced antibodies and disease induced antibodies?
The mRNA vaccines are designed around a specific part of the virus, the spike protein. A person who recovers from an infection will have antibodies designed to attack more parts of the virus. The antibodies should look different.
D. C. Bear
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Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.

No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
Doc Holliday
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D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.

No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
How do you know that for a fact?

That seems to go against the 700,000-person study from Israel a couple of weeks ago where the prior infected were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated.
D. C. Bear
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Doc Holliday said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.

No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
How do you know that for a fact?

That seems to go against the 700,000-person study from Israel a couple of weeks ago where the prior infected were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated.
Are you misreading what I said? (Pretty sure you are).
Forest Bueller_bf
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Osodecentx said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.

No other group will be close.
Don't vaccines produce antibodies to Covid? How do you distinguish between vaccine induced antibodies and disease induced antibodies?
I would certainly say yes, if the vaccine was a weakened version of the actual virus itself.

Doc Holliday
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D. C. Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.

No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
How do you know that for a fact?

That seems to go against the 700,000-person study from Israel a couple of weeks ago where the prior infected were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated.
Are you misreading what I said? (Pretty sure you are).
I read it as you saying vaccines are better than natural immunity. My bad.

But that's a weird point to make, of course non vaccinated and non infected people have the least protection.

I'm interested in natural immunity being better than vaccines.
Osodecentx
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Forest Bueller_bf said:

Osodecentx said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.

No other group will be close.
Don't vaccines produce antibodies to Covid? How do you distinguish between vaccine induced antibodies and disease induced antibodies?
I would certainly say yes, if the vaccine was a weakened version of the actual virus itself.

mRNA vaccines don't use the virus or pieces of the virus grown in hens' eggs. They are synthetic.
Forest Bueller_bf
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D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.


No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
I'm only talking about people who have made a 100% recovery from the actual virus.

Of course getting the vaccine before the illness is better than an immune system that hasn't ever encountered the virus.

I thought I was fairly clear. Sorry if not.
Harrison Bergeron
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I'm not a doctor nor a biology major, so @Gold Tron or others can educate me. I heard a physician say yesterday that we should not focus on antibodies but T-cell immunity.
D. C. Bear
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Forest Bueller_bf said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.


No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
I'm only talking about people who have made a 100% recovery from the actual virus.

Of course getting the vaccine before the illness is better than an immune system that hasn't ever encountered the virus.

I thought I was fairly clear. Sorry if not.
You weren't unclear. Just pointing that out because I do see arguments made that "natural immunity" is superior, so I won't get the vaccine even among people who haven't been infected. Basically, "my immune system is better than the vaccine." It isn't.
Canon
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D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.


No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
I'm only talking about people who have made a 100% recovery from the actual virus.

Of course getting the vaccine before the illness is better than an immune system that hasn't ever encountered the virus.

I thought I was fairly clear. Sorry if not.
You weren't unclear. Just pointing that out because I do see arguments made that "natural immunity" is superior, so I won't get the vaccine even among people who haven't been infected. Basically, "my immune system is better than the vaccine." It isn't.


For 99.5% of everyone who gets the virus, it is.
D. C. Bear
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Canon said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.


No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
I'm only talking about people who have made a 100% recovery from the actual virus.

Of course getting the vaccine before the illness is better than an immune system that hasn't ever encountered the virus.

I thought I was fairly clear. Sorry if not.
You weren't unclear. Just pointing that out because I do see arguments made that "natural immunity" is superior, so I won't get the vaccine even among people who haven't been infected. Basically, "my immune system is better than the vaccine." It isn't.


For 99.5% of everyone who gets the virus, it is.
Not quite, as death isn't the only bad outcome that the vaccines tend to prevent.
Canon
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D. C. Bear said:

Canon said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.


No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
I'm only talking about people who have made a 100% recovery from the actual virus.

Of course getting the vaccine before the illness is better than an immune system that hasn't ever encountered the virus.

I thought I was fairly clear. Sorry if not.
You weren't unclear. Just pointing that out because I do see arguments made that "natural immunity" is superior, so I won't get the vaccine even among people who haven't been infected. Basically, "my immune system is better than the vaccine." It isn't.


For 99.5% of everyone who gets the virus, it is.
Not quite, as death isn't the only bad outcome that the vaccines tend to prevent.
Vaccines make people sick, in many cases EXACTLY like the virus. So take your 'but they get the sickies though' nonsense to the house. 99.5% of people don't need a vaccine because they won't die from the virus. The antibodies they generate from getting what is overwhelmingly the sniffles or nothing at all, are far far better than the antibodies they get from a vaccine.
D. C. Bear
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Canon said:

D. C. Bear said:

Canon said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.


No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
I'm only talking about people who have made a 100% recovery from the actual virus.

Of course getting the vaccine before the illness is better than an immune system that hasn't ever encountered the virus.

I thought I was fairly clear. Sorry if not.
You weren't unclear. Just pointing that out because I do see arguments made that "natural immunity" is superior, so I won't get the vaccine even among people who haven't been infected. Basically, "my immune system is better than the vaccine." It isn't.


For 99.5% of everyone who gets the virus, it is.
Not quite, as death isn't the only bad outcome that the vaccines tend to prevent.
Vaccines make people sick, in many cases EXACTLY like the virus. So take your 'but they get the sickies though' nonsense to the house. 99.5% of people don't need a vaccine because they won't die from the virus. The antibodies they generate from getting what is overwhelmingly the sniffles or nothing at all, are far far better than the antibodies they get from a vaccine.
Sorry, that's not quite accurate.
Canon
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D. C. Bear said:

Canon said:

D. C. Bear said:

Canon said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.


No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
I'm only talking about people who have made a 100% recovery from the actual virus.

Of course getting the vaccine before the illness is better than an immune system that hasn't ever encountered the virus.

I thought I was fairly clear. Sorry if not.
You weren't unclear. Just pointing that out because I do see arguments made that "natural immunity" is superior, so I won't get the vaccine even among people who haven't been infected. Basically, "my immune system is better than the vaccine." It isn't.


For 99.5% of everyone who gets the virus, it is.
Not quite, as death isn't the only bad outcome that the vaccines tend to prevent.
Vaccines make people sick, in many cases EXACTLY like the virus. So take your 'but they get the sickies though' nonsense to the house. 99.5% of people don't need a vaccine because they won't die from the virus. The antibodies they generate from getting what is overwhelmingly the sniffles or nothing at all, are far far better than the antibodies they get from a vaccine.
Sorry, that's not quite accurate.

Since many (50%+) people don't get sick AT ALL from the virus, the fact that they get sick from the vaccine is actually far worse than they would have gotten from getting nothing. That's the only possible read where your comment would be correct. Congratulations.
Forest Bueller_bf
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This is a very strange illness in that you can have 3 similar people who work side by side, all 3 get it, one has no symptoms, one gets the sniffles, the other dies a horrible prolonged death in the hospital.

It really is up to how the individuals system reacts to the virus.

ATL Bear
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D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.


No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
I'm only talking about people who have made a 100% recovery from the actual virus.

Of course getting the vaccine before the illness is better than an immune system that hasn't ever encountered the virus.

I thought I was fairly clear. Sorry if not.
You weren't unclear. Just pointing that out because I do see arguments made that "natural immunity" is superior, so I won't get the vaccine even among people who haven't been infected. Basically, "my immune system is better than the vaccine." It isn't.
Technically it is. Otherwise this whittled down component of the virus vehicle that is the COVID vaccine wouldn't work at all. And in a morbid contrast, our immune system is also what is killing people from COVID. White blood cell battles in the depths of the lungs leaving behind suffocating mucus and pus that can kill those with weaker or compromised immune systems.
Osodecentx
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ATL Bear said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.


No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
I'm only talking about people who have made a 100% recovery from the actual virus.

Of course getting the vaccine before the illness is better than an immune system that hasn't ever encountered the virus.

I thought I was fairly clear. Sorry if not.
You weren't unclear. Just pointing that out because I do see arguments made that "natural immunity" is superior, so I won't get the vaccine even among people who haven't been infected. Basically, "my immune system is better than the vaccine." It isn't.
Technically it is. Otherwise this whittled down component of the virus vehicle that is the COVID vaccine wouldn't work at all. And in a morbid contrast, our immune system is also what is killing people from COVID. White blood cell battles in the depths of the lungs leaving behind suffocating mucus and pus that can kill those with weaker or compromised immune systems.
I don't understand your post. Would you elaborate?
D. C. Bear
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ATL Bear said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.


No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
I'm only talking about people who have made a 100% recovery from the actual virus.

Of course getting the vaccine before the illness is better than an immune system that hasn't ever encountered the virus.

I thought I was fairly clear. Sorry if not.
You weren't unclear. Just pointing that out because I do see arguments made that "natural immunity" is superior, so I won't get the vaccine even among people who haven't been infected. Basically, "my immune system is better than the vaccine." It isn't.
Technically it is. Otherwise this whittled down component of the virus vehicle that is the COVID vaccine wouldn't work at all. And in a morbid contrast, our immune system is also what is killing people from COVID. White blood cell battles in the depths of the lungs leaving behind suffocating mucus and pus that can kill those with weaker or compromised immune systems.


Yes, of course, the vaccine requires the immune system to work.
jupiter
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Freedomb3ar
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Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.

No other group will be close.




But get the shot
ATL Bear
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Osodecentx said:

ATL Bear said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.


No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
I'm only talking about people who have made a 100% recovery from the actual virus.

Of course getting the vaccine before the illness is better than an immune system that hasn't ever encountered the virus.

I thought I was fairly clear. Sorry if not.
You weren't unclear. Just pointing that out because I do see arguments made that "natural immunity" is superior, so I won't get the vaccine even among people who haven't been infected. Basically, "my immune system is better than the vaccine." It isn't.
Technically it is. Otherwise this whittled down component of the virus vehicle that is the COVID vaccine wouldn't work at all. And in a morbid contrast, our immune system is also what is killing people from COVID. White blood cell battles in the depths of the lungs leaving behind suffocating mucus and pus that can kill those with weaker or compromised immune systems.
I don't understand your post. Would you elaborate?
Which part?
Forest Bueller_bf
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Freedomb3ar said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.

No other group will be close.




But get the shot
Of course.
Sam Lowry
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Policy-makers are understandably hesitant because of conflicting info.

New CDC Study: Vaccination Offers Higher Protection than Previous COVID-19 Infection


Doc Holliday
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Sam Lowry said:

Policy-makers are understandably hesitant because of conflicting info.

New CDC Study: Vaccination Offers Higher Protection than Previous COVID-19 Infection
The conflict of information is insane. Someone is profoundly wrong.

The Israel study showing prior infected are 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated goes heavily against your study.
D. C. Bear
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Doc Holliday said:

Sam Lowry said:

Policy-makers are understandably hesitant because of conflicting info.

New CDC Study: Vaccination Offers Higher Protection than Previous COVID-19 Infection
The conflict of information is insane. Someone is profoundly wrong.

The Israel study showing prior infected are 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated goes heavily against your study.

What I can't readily tell from that Kentucky study is (1) what the actual rate of reinfection was or (2) what the severity of the cases where reinfection did occur was. Seems like both of those would be useful to know.
Osodecentx
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ATL Bear said:

Osodecentx said:

ATL Bear said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.


No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
I'm only talking about people who have made a 100% recovery from the actual virus.

Of course getting the vaccine before the illness is better than an immune system that hasn't ever encountered the virus.

I thought I was fairly clear. Sorry if not.
You weren't unclear. Just pointing that out because I do see arguments made that "natural immunity" is superior, so I won't get the vaccine even among people who haven't been infected. Basically, "my immune system is better than the vaccine." It isn't.
Technically it is. Otherwise this whittled down component of the virus vehicle that is the COVID vaccine wouldn't work at all.
I don't understand your post. Would you elaborate?
Which part?
Sorry. The prior poster said: "Basically, "my immune system is better than the vaccine." It isn't."

Part of your answer was: "Technically it is. Otherwise this whittled down component of the virus vehicle that is the COVID vaccine wouldn't work at all. "

I interpreted your answer to be an attempt to refute the first statement, i.e. that the human immune system is better than the vaccine. I respect your knowledge and opinion on this subject, but I didn't understand your answer.
Freedomb3ar
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Doctor has seen over 1100 Patients. 0 that originally had covid naturally have had covid twice

Her patients are over 80% that have had covid after being vaccinated.

People can believe what msnbc etc tell them. Most would rather listen to the doctors not being coerced into losing their job if they are out of line with management.
4th and Inches
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Sam Lowry said:

Policy-makers are understandably hesitant because of conflicting info.

New CDC Study: Vaccination Offers Higher Protection than Previous COVID-19 Infection

first i have seen a study that claims better immunity from only vax vs only natural immunity. Several including the 200k person study that says natural immunity is better and many show them as equal.
“Mix a little foolishness with your serious plans. It is lovely to be silly at the right moment.”

–Horace


“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
Osodecentx
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Freedomb3ar said:

Doctor has seen over 1100 Patients. 0 that originally had covid naturally have had covid twice

Her patients are over 80% that have had covid after being vaccinated.

People can believe what msnbc etc tell them. Most would rather listen to the doctors not being coerced into losing their job if they are out of line with management.
Link?
ATL Bear
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Osodecentx said:

ATL Bear said:

Osodecentx said:

ATL Bear said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Of course natural immunity is the best.

There is no better fighter against a specific illness than an immune system that has a copy
of the illness, and remembers how to fight and what to fight.

If you have the actual antibodies of the disease and you survived it, you have the gold standard
of immune response.


No other group will be close.


Naturally acquired immunity is likely very effective at preventing reinfection, but the vaccines are effective at (1) preventing infection in the first place and (2) preventing serious first-time infections. Whatever "natural immunity" people have prior to infection does not provide better protection than the vaccines. If you haven't had COVID, the vaccines are your best route to protection. If you have, you've got pretty good protection already, although the vaccines may add a little more.
I'm only talking about people who have made a 100% recovery from the actual virus.

Of course getting the vaccine before the illness is better than an immune system that hasn't ever encountered the virus.

I thought I was fairly clear. Sorry if not.
You weren't unclear. Just pointing that out because I do see arguments made that "natural immunity" is superior, so I won't get the vaccine even among people who haven't been infected. Basically, "my immune system is better than the vaccine." It isn't.
Technically it is. Otherwise this whittled down component of the virus vehicle that is the COVID vaccine wouldn't work at all.
I don't understand your post. Would you elaborate?
Which part?
Sorry. The prior poster said: "Basically, "my immune system is better than the vaccine." It isn't."

Part of your answer was: "Technically it is. Otherwise this whittled down component of the virus vehicle that is the COVID vaccine wouldn't work at all. "

I interpreted your answer to be an attempt to refute the first statement, i.e. that the human immune system is better than the vaccine. I respect your knowledge and opinion on this subject, but I didn't understand your answer.
I think it's unequivocal that our immune system is better than the vaccine. And as I meant by "technically", the vaccine is useless without our effective immune system. That's why most of the trouble in "breakthrough" cases are still in the same vulnerable demographics as pre-vaccine.

The vaccine is a stimulator of our immune system to give us a kick start against COVID. Some don't have the ability to get enough immuno response before it gets deep into the lungs where the real damage is done. But that's the 5-15% in the most vulnerable populations. The vast majority fight it off in the nasal passages and upper respiratory tract and get along with life, with and without the vaccine. The vaccine just raises the odds even higher that the battle will remain in the "safe zones", and providing us with a head start if/when the virus enters our body, and protecting ourselves against unknown underlying conditions that COVID may take advantage of. But our bodies already had the ability to throw it off as evidenced by the high rate of modest cases and overall recovery.

That is why I preach the importance of immune health. If you can put aside the emotion of the pandemic, objectively you have to marvel at the human body instead of wallowing in fear. It took on a highly contagious novel respiratory virus likely genetically engineered with gain of function enhancements to not only replication, but specific protein receptor targets, and outside of a small percentage of cases, beat it back. But as I've said, if you're over 40 and especially 50, you're foolish not to get vaccinated. Our bodies are just not as good at protecting itself the older we get, so we need the head start on something with rapid replication like COVID (especially Delta).

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