another rascist article: "bleks are too stupid."

If you borrow money from someone, you should pay it back. Human Decency 101. Not really that difficult.

Fre3dombear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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Seems like just another attempt at not taking responsibility for one's decisions and trying to blame someone or something else instead. Did BU or any other university put a gun to anyone's head and force them to take out these loans? Did anyone lie about the amount of the loans to deceive the borrowers as to how much debt they were incurring? Did anyone receive a signed written guarantee that the benefits of the education received will for sure pay the loan off? We increasingly live in a world where too many people don't want to take full ownership of their personal decisions and want someone or something else to ride to the rescue. And it too many cases that "something else" ends up being taxpayers.

---

It is the interest rate that kills them. Many have paid principal off and not made any headway. Most don't mind paying for their education, but making it a profit center is a different story.

I have no problem with Public Service Loan Forgiveness, Military Service loan payments and other programs where you can get the balance forgiven after 10 years. After that long you have more than paid off the principal and they made some interest. To me, that is fair

---

Why not jist make that the math to start with? People that argue this seem to suggest the math wasn't what it was when the loan was taken. Yet another example of the government waste negatively impacting millions and, as usual, many voting for their own shackles. People gotta wake up and get off the govt plantation.

Main issue is people have been tricked into thinking they went to college and that somehow makes them "educated"

Probably 70% or more and even on this very board have absolutely worthless, overpriced degrees that never will give any ROI

They got tricked by the propaganda and marketing

And yet with all this money and what Obama turbocharged still only 1 in 4 even ever set foot into a college class and most all those largely wasted their time and clearly their money

---

You mix quite a few different things in there!

Some I agree, some may not a bit editorial for public policy in my opinion.

Is the cost of college ridiculously overpriced and br fixed, yes. Especially, Private schools.

Should degree choices be limited when using non-privste student loans , yes. Maybe not as much as you may want, but professional degrees and needed degree fields I have no issues there.

Is it Govt bureaucrat inefficiency? I don't think so, Govt workers don't set policy, that is elected officials. Electeds think because they win sn election they know best, they tend to muck things up when they stick their nose into details. I would bet you could ask a Dep of Ed staffer and they would tell you how to fix it, electeds won't listen.

I still think a more "educated" population is a good thing and more access to higher Ed is worth it. As I said before, my problem is with it becoming a profit center through interest rates. Paying for the cost of Ed is one thing, the interest is what ends up getting people.

Please separate the "I paid for my education collecting pop bottles, so no one should borrow money to go to school." Or the I am so great, "my finances are perfect, aren't I a shining example of what everyone should do, people taking loans are losers" from the public policy discussion. The two are not related. You cannot apply 1 persons experience to a population of 360 million. Just one person's opinion, sure most of THIS board disagree.

This is a great start by the GOP! Very happy to see them join the fray. This is how you compete with the Dems. This is the type of stuff that will not only make a difference in people's lives, but help accomplish the long term goals of the program. There is no free ride in this program.

"targeted" student loan relief for borrowers who "already paid back more than they originally owed taxpayers in principal and interest," streamline several existing income-driven repayment plans into one system and give defaulted borrowers another chance to rehabilitate their loans."



House Republicans introduce their own student loan debt plan (msn.com)

EatMoreSalmon said:

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Traditional college is simply not for everybody. Quit buying into the garbage idea that if everyone had a bachelor's degree, they would all make more money. Everyone having one would simply devalue the degree. If everyone gets a pound of gold, the price of gold would simply crash. That is how real value works.

Abundance of loans for education just puts the graduates under water faster and explodes the inflation of college costs as more money is to be had. Cut the gravy train and colleges will have to compete and get cheaper to keep students.

---

Certainly not expensive private schools....or public schools that are affordable on paper but where the local living expenses of the cities are very high (ut-Austin, Cal-Berkeley for example)

My wife lived in South Russell....she was friends with several girls there from places like Houston or Dallas that were on scholarship.

By the end of the 2nd year several had moved home.

She was friends with one Black girl who was from Houston and went back there....they are still friends on facebook. She told my wife that she regrets going to Baylor because of the high price. Even though she graduated with a very high ranking from her High School she wishes she had just stayed home and gone to UofH like her other sister. She is now teaching in the Houston metro area but she said she is dealing with a lot of debt.

I think for families that are under a certain income level its really irresponsible of places like Baylor or ut-Austin to push this on people....it ends up being something that benefits the schools more than the actual kids.

My uncle grew up on a rice farm outside of Winnie Texas and went to Lamar....because his parents said they would not pay for anything more expensive...and he is the richest guy I personally know.

You do NOT have to go off to an expensive school to be successful. And many times it just puts you behind in the game to graduate with lots of debt.

UofH, UTSA, UT-Dallas are good schools and are there as affordable options for a reason.

FLBear5630 said:

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This is a great start by the GOP! Very happy to see them join the fray. This is how you compete with the Dems. This is the type of stuff that will not only make a difference in people's lives, but help accomplish the long term goals of the program. There is no free ride in this program.

"targeted" student loan relief for borrowers who "already paid back more than they originally owed taxpayers in principal and interest," streamline several existing income-driven repayment plans into one system and give defaulted borrowers another chance to rehabilitate their loans."



House Republicans introduce their own student loan debt plan (msn.com)

---

If you really wanted to fix student loans, fire every democrat from Congress. They single handedly created the problem by flooding higher education with money.

There is simply no reason for the GOP to step in and fix yet another democrat failure. The only way we as a nation can solve our problems is by allowing the people that willing voted for those problems to live in what they created.

FLBear5630 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

Seems like just another attempt at not taking responsibility for one's decisions and trying to blame someone or something else instead. Did BU or any other university put a gun to anyone's head and force them to take out these loans? Did anyone lie about the amount of the loans to deceive the borrowers as to how much debt they were incurring? Did anyone receive a signed written guarantee that the benefits of the education received will for sure pay the loan off? We increasingly live in a world where too many people don't want to take full ownership of their personal decisions and want someone or something else to ride to the rescue. And it too many cases that "something else" ends up being taxpayers.

---

It is the interest rate that kills them. Many have paid principal off and not made any headway. Most don't mind paying for their education, but making it a profit center is a different story.

I have no problem with Public Service Loan Forgiveness, Military Service loan payments and other programs where you can get the balance forgiven after 10 years. After that long you have more than paid off the principal and they made some interest. To me, that is fair

---

Why not jist make that the math to start with? People that argue this seem to suggest the math wasn't what it was when the loan was taken. Yet another example of the government waste negatively impacting millions and, as usual, many voting for their own shackles. People gotta wake up and get off the govt plantation.

Main issue is people have been tricked into thinking they went to college and that somehow makes them "educated"

Probably 70% or more and even on this very board have absolutely worthless, overpriced degrees that never will give any ROI

They got tricked by the propaganda and marketing

And yet with all this money and what Obama turbocharged still only 1 in 4 even ever set foot into a college class and most all those largely wasted their time and clearly their money

---

Please separate the "I paid for my education collecting pop bottles, so no one should borrow money to go to school." Or the I am so great, "my finances are perfect, aren't I a shining example of what everyone should do, people taking loans are losers" from the public policy discussion. The two are not related. You cannot apply 1 persons experience to a population of 360 million. Just one person's opinion, sure most of THIS board disagree.

---

"...but don't close my business for three weeks during a pandemic, or I'll have to take an SBA loan and probably still end up ruined for life because I'm such a poor planner. Make America Great Again!"

GrowlTowel said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

This is a great start by the GOP! Very happy to see them join the fray. This is how you compete with the Dems. This is the type of stuff that will not only make a difference in people's lives, but help accomplish the long term goals of the program. There is no free ride in this program.

"targeted" student loan relief for borrowers who "already paid back more than they originally owed taxpayers in principal and interest," streamline several existing income-driven repayment plans into one system and give defaulted borrowers another chance to rehabilitate their loans."



House Republicans introduce their own student loan debt plan (msn.com)

---

If you really wanted to fix student loans, fire every democrat from Congress. They single handedly created the problem by flooding higher education with money.

There is simply no reason for the GOP to step in and fix yet another democrat failure. The only way we as a nation can solve our problems is by allowing the people that willing voted for those problems to live in what they created.

---

I get you in principle.

This needs to be solved, at least these people are trying to balance financial responsibility with the reality of the situation. I am not saying to forgive the entire amount, paying off the principal and some level of interest is fair.

Holding these people hostage for 20 or 30 years is counter-productive. The point of the Student Loan program is to have a more qualified work force, not to create a society of people that can't afford to live on their own. The starting salary for a lot of jobs in in the 50's. No way to live, have kids (shouldn't reproduce anyway, right), and focus on a job on that. It is out of whack and the Govt at the very least needs to regulate it to get the situation under control. The Universities and SL Companies aren't, they are making a fortune.

But, I guess we can bring back debtors prison? Have a couple of generations of people going to jail for Student Loans, that will teach them. Irresponsible dead beats...

Funny, I was never a liberal until I started posting on this Board. I have definitely moved left talking to this crew...

ImwithBU said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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ImwithBU said:

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I'm not sure why anyone would pay a ridiculous price for Any bachelors degree. Undergrad degrees are worthless for the most part outside of Engineering perhaps. My Baylor degree has earned me $0. I will say Baylor is dry generous to some students. They paid over half my cost and I got the other parts from other scholarships. Not a brag, just a reality that Baylor is generous for students that meet certain criteria.

---

There are other valuable bachelor's degrees in addition to Engineering. Accounting (especially if you become a CPA), Finance, Computer Science, and other technically oriented degrees that equip the graduate with marketable skills that the marketplace needs are examples. My daughter graduated from the BU Nursing program (an excellent program and another example of a valuable bachelors degree) 4 years ago, had a job waiting for her, and has advanced and done great ever since. With academic scholarship help from BU we financially helped her get it done with only minimal loan assistance (which she quickly paid off in less than a year). I'm not suggesting it wasn't still expensive even with the scholarship assistance, but It was worth it and the wife and I would do it again.

More and more, it highly depends on what the major is, but a bachelors degree can still be worth it - even at today's exorbitant costs.

---

I said a few degrees are worth it. As far as nursing goes agree to disagree. Congrats to your daughter but the UTSA graduate who is paying a fraction of the price for a Baylor degree has the same job and is making the same amount of money. Again if your taking loans for those degrees it may not be with it

---

First of all, the broad point I was trying to make is that nursing is an example of a field of study where a bachelors degree (at any reputable school) is normally worth it.

As far as where the degree is paid for and earned, I fully understand that paying whatever the real bottom line difference is to go to BU isn't worth it to a lot of people - but to some people the BU experience IS worth it - and that's a big reason why BU's enrollment isn't declining. It's kind of like being puzzled why anyone would buy anything more expensive than a Honda Civic or a Toyota Corolla since the number one reason to incur the expense of a motor vehicle for most people is to safely get from point A to point B and back. Some people desire or need more from a motor vehicle, however, and for them the higher cost and incurring the debt to own a more expensive one is worth it. The same is true for colleges and universities - different strokes for different folks.

Johnny Bear said:

---

ImwithBU said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

ImwithBU said:

---

I'm not sure why anyone would pay a ridiculous price for Any bachelors degree. Undergrad degrees are worthless for the most part outside of Engineering perhaps. My Baylor degree has earned me $0. I will say Baylor is dry generous to some students. They paid over half my cost and I got the other parts from other scholarships. Not a brag, just a reality that Baylor is generous for students that meet certain criteria.

---

There are other valuable bachelor's degrees in addition to Engineering. Accounting (especially if you become a CPA), Finance, Computer Science, and other technically oriented degrees that equip the graduate with marketable skills that the marketplace needs are examples. My daughter graduated from the BU Nursing program (an excellent program and another example of a valuable bachelors degree) 4 years ago, had a job waiting for her, and has advanced and done great ever since. With academic scholarship help from BU we financially helped her get it done with only minimal loan assistance (which she quickly paid off in less than a year). I'm not suggesting it wasn't still expensive even with the scholarship assistance, but It was worth it and the wife and I would do it again.

More and more, it highly depends on what the major is, but a bachelors degree can still be worth it - even at today's exorbitant costs.

---

I said a few degrees are worth it. As far as nursing goes agree to disagree. Congrats to your daughter but the UTSA graduate who is paying a fraction of the price for a Baylor degree has the same job and is making the same amount of money. Again if your taking loans for those degrees it may not be with it

---

First of all, the broad point I was trying to make is that nursing is an example of a field of study where a bachelors degree (at any reputable school) is worth it.

As far as where the degree is paid for and earned, I fully understand that paying whatever the real bottom line difference is to go to BU isn't worth it to a lot of people - but to some people the BU experience IS worth it - and that's a big reason why BU's enrollment isn't declining. It's kind of like being puzzled why anyone would anyone would buy anything more expensive than a Honda Civic or a Toyota Corolla since the number one reason to incur the expense of a motor vehicle for most people is to safely get from point A to point B and back. Some people desire or need more from a motor vehicle, however, and for them the higher cost and incurring the debt to own a more expensive one is worth it. The same is true for colleges and universities - different strokes for different folks.

---

Don't disagree. By the way, Nursing is a fantastic degree. Wife is a BSN and we paid off her loans long ago, she has never been without a job no matter where my career has taken us. Money well spent if you actually work the job and like it, it is a tough way to go if you are not so inclined...

The issue is the mechanism for finance and the interest rate merry-go-round that the current system creates. People are paying much more than their actual cost of school. The numbers are so high to attend that Student Loans are the only way to pay for a great many of the families out there. In addition, the numbers are so high that practically you are going to have to forfeit a good portion of your life and childbearing years to be "financially responsible" by this Board's definition . In practice, once you are working and life gets a hold it becomes very difficult to pay back. I have been there.

What they don't tell you is that it takes years or decades in some career fields to get to the point of being able to pay the load AND have a life. In many necessary fields, not the fluff stuff, you have to use the 30 year plan or the income plan just to stay current, all the while the interest is building. If you wait until you get to your 40's where you finally make enough to handle it, the 70k cost is now 205k. Add kids, trying to have a house and transportation and a 35k year entry level job is unrealistic you are on a treadmill that in practical terms has no end. It is beyond the days of saying no to cable TV and using coupons.

The minority of the those that paid it off and say you made that choice when you were 22, live with it. Is not a realistic approach to a problem that is holding down many of the younger generations. Since WW2, a government influx of capital to education in exchange for public service has played a role in the US position in the world, this is just the next iteration.

As for the go to a Junior College not Baylor, do you really want that? Think about what you are complaining about. If you want your "Baylor" perspective to be out there to contest the left, cutting off people from attending Baylor and being exposed to your message is counter-productive. Because the left is going to push their agenda at the public schools. No one is saying a free ride is the answer, just paying what it costs or exchanging for public service (we do it in the military).

FLBear5630 said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

ImwithBU said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

ImwithBU said:

---

I'm not sure why anyone would pay a ridiculous price for Any bachelors degree. Undergrad degrees are worthless for the most part outside of Engineering perhaps. My Baylor degree has earned me $0. I will say Baylor is dry generous to some students. They paid over half my cost and I got the other parts from other scholarships. Not a brag, just a reality that Baylor is generous for students that meet certain criteria.

---

There are other valuable bachelor's degrees in addition to Engineering. Accounting (especially if you become a CPA), Finance, Computer Science, and other technically oriented degrees that equip the graduate with marketable skills that the marketplace needs are examples. My daughter graduated from the BU Nursing program (an excellent program and another example of a valuable bachelors degree) 4 years ago, had a job waiting for her, and has advanced and done great ever since. With academic scholarship help from BU we financially helped her get it done with only minimal loan assistance (which she quickly paid off in less than a year). I'm not suggesting it wasn't still expensive even with the scholarship assistance, but It was worth it and the wife and I would do it again.

More and more, it highly depends on what the major is, but a bachelors degree can still be worth it - even at today's exorbitant costs.

---

I said a few degrees are worth it. As far as nursing goes agree to disagree. Congrats to your daughter but the UTSA graduate who is paying a fraction of the price for a Baylor degree has the same job and is making the same amount of money. Again if your taking loans for those degrees it may not be with it

---

First of all, the broad point I was trying to make is that nursing is an example of a field of study where a bachelors degree (at any reputable school) is worth it.

As far as where the degree is paid for and earned, I fully understand that paying whatever the real bottom line difference is to go to BU isn't worth it to a lot of people - but to some people the BU experience IS worth it - and that's a big reason why BU's enrollment isn't declining. It's kind of like being puzzled why anyone would anyone would buy anything more expensive than a Honda Civic or a Toyota Corolla since the number one reason to incur the expense of a motor vehicle for most people is to safely get from point A to point B and back. Some people desire or need more from a motor vehicle, however, and for them the higher cost and incurring the debt to own a more expensive one is worth it. The same is true for colleges and universities - different strokes for different folks.

---

Don't disagree. By the way, Nursing is a fantastic degree. Wife is a BSN and we paid off her loans long ago, she has never been without a job no matter where my career has taken us. Money well spent if you actually work the job and like it, it is a tough way to go if you are not so inclined...

The issue is the mechanism for finance and the interest rate merry-go-round that the current system creates. People are paying much more than their actual cost of school. The numbers are so high to attend that Student Loans are the only way to pay for a great many of the families out there. In addition, the numbers are so high that practically you are going to have to forfeit a good portion of your life and childbearing years to be "financially responsible" by this Board's definition . In practice, once you are working and life gets a hold it becomes very difficult to pay back. I have been there.

What they don't tell you is that it takes years or decades in some career fields to get to the point of being able to pay the load AND have a life. In many necessary fields, not the fluff stuff, you have to use the 30 year plan or the income plan just to stay current, all the while the interest is building. If you wait until you get to your 40's where you finally make enough to handle it, the 70k cost is now 205k. Add kids, trying to have a house and transportation and a 35k year entry level job is unrealistic you are on a treadmill that in practical terms has no end. It is beyond the days of saying no to cable TV and using coupons.

The minority of the those that paid it off and say you made that choice when you were 22, live with it. Is not a realistic approach to a problem that is holding down many of the younger generations. Since WW2, a government influx of capital to education in exchange for public service has played a role in the US position in the world, this is just the next iteration.

As for the go to a Junior College not Baylor, do you really want that? Think about what you are complaining about. If you want your "Baylor" perspective to be out there to contest the left, cutting off people from attending Baylor and being exposed to your message is counter-productive. Because the left is going to push their agenda at the public schools. No one is saying a free ride is the answer, just paying what it costs or exchanging for public service (we do it in the military).

---

I agree with everything you said.

My only critique is that going to Baylor is not getting a perspective that is going to "contest the Left".

Baylor is a liberal school full stop. It might not be as liberal as ut-austin or cal but its not in any way some alternative right wing school that is leading the counter culture.

It might drag its heels on a few cultural issues....mostly related to the sexual revolution (gays, abortion, etc)...but then it turns around on the other hand and fully embraces modern race politics/discussion/culture. (tearing down statues, etc)

Its a good school...no doubt about it....but its not a boot camp for conservativism.

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

ImwithBU said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

ImwithBU said:

---

I'm not sure why anyone would pay a ridiculous price for Any bachelors degree. Undergrad degrees are worthless for the most part outside of Engineering perhaps. My Baylor degree has earned me $0. I will say Baylor is dry generous to some students. They paid over half my cost and I got the other parts from other scholarships. Not a brag, just a reality that Baylor is generous for students that meet certain criteria.

---

There are other valuable bachelor's degrees in addition to Engineering. Accounting (especially if you become a CPA), Finance, Computer Science, and other technically oriented degrees that equip the graduate with marketable skills that the marketplace needs are examples. My daughter graduated from the BU Nursing program (an excellent program and another example of a valuable bachelors degree) 4 years ago, had a job waiting for her, and has advanced and done great ever since. With academic scholarship help from BU we financially helped her get it done with only minimal loan assistance (which she quickly paid off in less than a year). I'm not suggesting it wasn't still expensive even with the scholarship assistance, but It was worth it and the wife and I would do it again.

More and more, it highly depends on what the major is, but a bachelors degree can still be worth it - even at today's exorbitant costs.

---

I said a few degrees are worth it. As far as nursing goes agree to disagree. Congrats to your daughter but the UTSA graduate who is paying a fraction of the price for a Baylor degree has the same job and is making the same amount of money. Again if your taking loans for those degrees it may not be with it

---

First of all, the broad point I was trying to make is that nursing is an example of a field of study where a bachelors degree (at any reputable school) is worth it.

As far as where the degree is paid for and earned, I fully understand that paying whatever the real bottom line difference is to go to BU isn't worth it to a lot of people - but to some people the BU experience IS worth it - and that's a big reason why BU's enrollment isn't declining. It's kind of like being puzzled why anyone would anyone would buy anything more expensive than a Honda Civic or a Toyota Corolla since the number one reason to incur the expense of a motor vehicle for most people is to safely get from point A to point B and back. Some people desire or need more from a motor vehicle, however, and for them the higher cost and incurring the debt to own a more expensive one is worth it. The same is true for colleges and universities - different strokes for different folks.

---

Don't disagree. By the way, Nursing is a fantastic degree. Wife is a BSN and we paid off her loans long ago, she has never been without a job no matter where my career has taken us. Money well spent if you actually work the job and like it, it is a tough way to go if you are not so inclined...

The issue is the mechanism for finance and the interest rate merry-go-round that the current system creates. People are paying much more than their actual cost of school. The numbers are so high to attend that Student Loans are the only way to pay for a great many of the families out there. In addition, the numbers are so high that practically you are going to have to forfeit a good portion of your life and childbearing years to be "financially responsible" by this Board's definition . In practice, once you are working and life gets a hold it becomes very difficult to pay back. I have been there.

What they don't tell you is that it takes years or decades in some career fields to get to the point of being able to pay the load AND have a life. In many necessary fields, not the fluff stuff, you have to use the 30 year plan or the income plan just to stay current, all the while the interest is building. If you wait until you get to your 40's where you finally make enough to handle it, the 70k cost is now 205k. Add kids, trying to have a house and transportation and a 35k year entry level job is unrealistic you are on a treadmill that in practical terms has no end. It is beyond the days of saying no to cable TV and using coupons.

The minority of the those that paid it off and say you made that choice when you were 22, live with it. Is not a realistic approach to a problem that is holding down many of the younger generations. Since WW2, a government influx of capital to education in exchange for public service has played a role in the US position in the world, this is just the next iteration.

As for the go to a Junior College not Baylor, do you really want that? Think about what you are complaining about. If you want your "Baylor" perspective to be out there to contest the left, cutting off people from attending Baylor and being exposed to your message is counter-productive. Because the left is going to push their agenda at the public schools. No one is saying a free ride is the answer, just paying what it costs or exchanging for public service (we do it in the military).

---

I agree with everything you said.

My only critique is that going to Baylor is not getting a perspective that is going to "contest the Left".

Baylor is a liberal school full stop. It might not be as liberal as ut-austin or cal but its not in any way some alternative right wing school that is leading the counter cultural.

It might drag its heels on a few cultural issues....mostly related to the sexual revolution (gays, abortion, etc)...but then it turns around on the other hand and fully embraces modern race politics/discussion/culture. (tearing down statues, etc)

Its a good school...no doubt about it....but its not a boot camp for conservativism.

---

You are probably right.

I can't believe I am saying this but I was very impressed with my son's Texas A&M experience. Now, he was in their Maritime program in Galveston, but he got a good education, at a reasonable price and very little leftist stuff. If anything, it was right-leaning. Now, that is a Maritime industry degree. He has a job in Port Operations now, low salary but he is just starting out, and got it within 2 months of graduating. I would recommend A&M. My experience at Baylor was excellent, but I paid for it and the program I was in (City Management) I don't think still exists!