Exit negotiations stagnant between Oklahoma, Texas and the Big 12

October 21, 2021
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SicEm365’s David Smoak shares updated information regarding the status of the departure from the Big 12 by the University of Oklahoma and the University of Texas for the SEC and where there are legal hangups with the move.

Highlights From The Conversation

  • Regardless if Oklahoma and Texas fulfill required time in the Big 12 through the end of the Grant of Rights in 2025, the two universities will still be required pay exit fees of $80 million each
     
  • The Grant of Rights is a separate entity financially outside of the exit fees as part of being in the Big 12.
     
  • Though the Big 12’s hope is that Oklahoma and Texas would leave the league by the summer of 2023, the two depating universities have yet to file the 27-month exit timeline to begin process of leaving to join SEC.
     
  • The $80 million per university in exit fees can still be negotiated, but as of this time it is not being negotiated.
     
  • If there are any delays or fighting of exit fees from Texas or Oklahoma, Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby has right to add additional fees on top of the original fees. It’s believed that there will be additional penalties added.
     
  • There are three processes that can be utilized to settle on the Grant of Rights: The Big 12 can sell the GOR back to Oklahoma and Texas, retain the GOR or let the two universities walk to the SEC.
     
  • If the Big 12 elects to retain the GOR and Oklahoma and Texas make the move to the SEC, all money accumulated in television revenue by the two universities would be distributed to the Big 12.
  • If Oklahoma and Texas make the departure of the Big 12 ugly and drags out legally, the $80 million exit will be a minor part of what will eventually be paid by the two universities.

Discussion from...

Exit negotiations stagnant between Oklahoma, Texas and the Big 12

11,016 Views | 57 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by bear2be2
Pecos 45
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We need Jim Adler on this.
"It's no sin to be poor, but it's damned inconvenient." Mark Twain
RedBear05
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Hammer them for every penny they can. They wanted to make this move about money so that's what they should be forced to pay!!!
bear2be2
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Pecos 45 said:

We need Jim Adler on this.

The Texas hammer!!!

What's Brian Loncar up to these days?
1 bears opinion
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Keep them in the league as long as possible

Make them pay FULL amount

Schedule ALL ROAD GAMES for OU & UT men's football for remainder of relationship
ColoradoGRN&GLD
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Just manipulate the schedules so half the teams get bye weeks before each of UT and OU. They both get byes before KU. Road games in the south while it's hot. In the north while it's cold. Just make life as miserable as possible within the bounds of reality.
Feel The Floyd
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bear2be2 said:

Pecos 45 said:

We need Jim Adler on this.

The Texas hammer!!!

What's Brian Loncar up to these days?


Sad situation, he is died a few years ago after a family tragedy.

https://www.fox4news.com/news/attorney-brian-loncar-the-strong-arm-found-dead-one-week-after-daughters-suicide
gobears20
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Staff
And we should shack OU and Texas up in something like this when they come to Waco

bear2be2
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Feel The Floyd said:

bear2be2 said:

Pecos 45 said:

We need Jim Adler on this.

The Texas hammer!!!

What's Brian Loncar up to these days?


Sad situation, he is died a few years ago after a family tragedy.

https://www.fox4news.com/news/attorney-brian-loncar-the-strong-arm-found-dead-one-week-after-daughters-suicide
Dang. That is sad. I had no idea.
BearFan33
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Gosh the B12 holds all the cards. Hopefully even Bowelsby can't screw this up.
historian
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Expect the Big 12 to play hardball and push them for everything they can get.
“Whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.”
I Corinthians 10:31
Robert Wilson
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Gotta say I'm really enjoying this - both them leaving and the fact that it's going to be painful for them - and the fact that once they're gone they'll be wondering what in the hell they did.
historian
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No doubt there will be plenty of propaganda touting their advantages for switching, but their situation won't improve except maybe in terms of money & there are a lot of things more important than $$$$.
“Whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.”
I Corinthians 10:31
MommaBear
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So, is the SEC ok with Texas keeping their Longhorn channel after they move?
Timbear
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Bowlsby basically worked for OUT for years, giving them preferential treatment over the best interests of the Big 12. Now he feels like a woman spurned.
bear2be2
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historian said:

Expect the Big 12 to play hardball and looked them for everything they can get.
The Big 12 doesn't even have to pay hardball. It just has to play ball. The GoR deal is pretty ironclad here, and not in the deserters' favor.

That really is a remarkable contract. I wonder if Texas and OU had known that the Big 12 wasn't just going to fold with their departure if they would have waited until after 2025 to announce their intentions to leave. That's a hell of a lot of money they're on the hook for, and the conference has no motivation or incentive whatsoever to negotiate it down.
Robert Wilson
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historian said:

No doubt there will be plenty of propaganda touting their advantages for switching, but their situation won't improve except maybe in terms of money & there are a lot of things more important than $$$$.
That's right. And let's be clear-eyed about the situation here - these are huge nonprofits. All these UT donors have been waiting for years on their stockholder dividend checks from the UT athletic department, right? [sarcasm] What on earth good does more money into a huge nonprofit (already backed by the Permanent University Fund) do, if you already were the richest and you still weren't winning enough? It's silly. It's just a different way to keep score because they can't win. Pointless. Empty. Ultimately just adds to your frustration. Funny to watch, though.
bear2be2
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Robert Wilson said:

historian said:

No doubt there will be plenty of propaganda touting their advantages for switching, but their situation won't improve except maybe in terms of money & there are a lot of things more important than $$$$.
That's right. And let's be clear-eyed about the situation here - these are huge nonprofits. All these UT donors have been waiting for years on their stockholder dividend checks from the UT athletic department, right? [sarcasm] What on earth good does more money into a huge nonprofit (already backed by the Permanent University Fund) do, if you already were the richest and you still weren't winning enough? It's silly. It's just a different way to keep score because they can't win. Pointless. Empty. Ultimately just adds to your frustration. Funny to watch, though.
I believe you mean "nonprofits."
graygrantham
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Just a thought... The Big 12 and SEC could kill a few birds with one stone. Problem
#1 is the sticky exit from the Big 12 for OU and UT. Probelm #2 is with ACC/Big10/PAC12 creating scheduling alliance their may be no P5/A5 preseason games for the SEC to schedule (loss of preseason $$$). Problem #3 potential loss of P5/A5 Status for Big 12 following 2025.

To solve all three of these issues in a mutually beneficial manner, the Big 12 and SEC should reach an agreement that OU and UT begin play in the SEC at their convenience with no exit penalties or fees. In exchange the SEC would gurantee support for the Big 12 maintaining P5/A5 status from 2025 - 2035. Additionally the SEC and Big 12 should agree to a scheduling alliance that gives each school in both conferences at least one game vs the other conference in weeks 1, 2 and 3. The value concessions for letting OU and UT exit the Big 12 at no cost could be recouped in home field scheduling concessions over 10 years.

Presumably the networks would value these games higher in broadcast $$$ than playing the traditional cupcakes and perhaps both conferences could bank more on these preseason home games.


graygrantham
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SEC v Big 12 scheduling should have been week 1, 2 OR 3. (sorry)
bear2be2
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graygrantham said:

Just a thought... The Big 12 and SEC could kill a few birds with one stone. Problem
#1 is the sticky exit from the Big 12 for OU and UT. Probelm #2 is with ACC/Big10/PAC12 creating scheduling alliance their may be no P5/A5 preseason games for the SEC to schedule (loss of preseason $$$). Problem #3 potential loss of P5/A5 Status for Big 12 following 2025.

To solve all three of these issues in a mutually beneficial manner, the Big 12 and SEC should reach an agreement that OU and UT begin play in the SEC at their convenience with no exit penalties or fees. In exchange the SEC would gurantee support for the Big 12 maintaining P5/A5 status from 2025 - 2035. Additionally the SEC and Big 12 should agree to a scheduling alliance that gives each school in both conferences at least one game vs the other conference in weeks 1, 2 and 3. The value concessions for letting OU and UT exit the Big 12 at no cost could be recouped in home field scheduling concessions over 10 years.

Presumably the networks would value these games higher in broadcast $$$ than playing the traditional cupcakes and perhaps both conferences could bank more on these preseason home games.
There's no good reason to waive OUT's exit fees. They agreed contractually to the GoR deal, and they're going to be held to it. What you just proposed is a favor to three entities (the SEC, OUT and ESPN) that are owed no favors by the Big 12 here. And given that the Big 12 holds all of the leverage, there's no incentive whatsoever to concede anything.

The Big 12 will stay a power conference (for whatever that's worth going forward) with or without the SEC's help. If the SEC wants to create a mutually beneficial scheduling alliance, great. But there's no way that's worth what the league is contractually owed by the deserters. We can talk about exit strategies and scheduling once OUT pay the money they owe.
Robert Wilson
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bear2be2 said:

graygrantham said:

Just a thought... The Big 12 and SEC could kill a few birds with one stone. Problem
#1 is the sticky exit from the Big 12 for OU and UT. Probelm #2 is with ACC/Big10/PAC12 creating scheduling alliance their may be no P5/A5 preseason games for the SEC to schedule (loss of preseason $$$). Problem #3 potential loss of P5/A5 Status for Big 12 following 2025.

To solve all three of these issues in a mutually beneficial manner, the Big 12 and SEC should reach an agreement that OU and UT begin play in the SEC at their convenience with no exit penalties or fees. In exchange the SEC would gurantee support for the Big 12 maintaining P5/A5 status from 2025 - 2035. Additionally the SEC and Big 12 should agree to a scheduling alliance that gives each school in both conferences at least one game vs the other conference in weeks 1, 2 and 3. The value concessions for letting OU and UT exit the Big 12 at no cost could be recouped in home field scheduling concessions over 10 years.

Presumably the networks would value these games higher in broadcast $$$ than playing the traditional cupcakes and perhaps both conferences could bank more on these preseason home games.
There's no good reason to waive OUT's exit fees. They agreed contractually to the GoR deal, and they're going to be held to it. What you just proposed is a favor to three entities (the SEC, OUT and ESPN) that are owed no favors by the Big 12 here. And given that the Big 12 holds all of the leverage, there's no incentive whatsoever to concede anything.

The Big 12 will stay a power conference (for whatever that's worth going forward) with or without the SEC's help. If the SEC wants to create a mutually beneficial scheduling alliance, great. But there's no way that's worth what the league is contractually owed by the deserters. We can talk about exit strategies and scheduling once OUT pay the money they owe.


Agree. **** out. They pay their fees. We stay power 5. We schedule whomever we want. How's that for a compromise?

If sec wants to schedule us, great.

If not, we beat up on pac, acc, and b10.
historian
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We already have the Big 12 SEC challenge in basketball (both MBB & WBB). Why not have something like that in football too? Some of us already have agreements with SEC teams that could be incorporated into an agreement: our home & home with Auburn, OSU has a home & home with Arkansas & another with Bama, Tech has Mississippi State & Arkansas, & W Virginia has a home & home with Alabama.
“Whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.”
I Corinthians 10:31
Johnny Bear
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Since it seems like UT has virtually limitless funds to throw around, if they in the end have to pay the full amount in exit fees, etc. (which I certainly hope they will), I am assuming it won't be more than just a nuisance kind of thing in their case. On the other hand, I don't know about how this would affect OU. In any event, there is literally no current business reason for the B12 to negotiate away a penny with either of them.
Porteroso
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I'm on board with the screw them train. In fact they are muddying the waters as we speak! Their refusal to provide the Big 12 with their intended timeline costs them each $5m per day if I'm Bowlsby. Make it retroactive to the day the SEC voted to bring them in.

If they speak to the media about it? Irreparable harm to the image if the Big 12! $500K PER WORD SPOKEN IN DETRIMENT OF OUR GREAT CONFERENCE!!!
ColoradoGRN&GLD
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It's nice to think the B12 has all the leverage, but the reality is that OUUT do have a couple of cards to play. a GoR has never been tested in court. If they wanted to challenge the validity and constitutionality of a GoR it would take yrs of litigation and an unholy amount of $ in lawyer's fees. Worst case scenario is that the courts decide that GoR's are not legally binding and the B12 gets screwed and walks away with nothing. Best case is that the B12 wins, OUUT is forced to pay every penny, but the lawyers end up walking away with whatever they get.

There is also the scorched earth path where they claim Sovereign Immunity. TTU already did it to Leach when they fired him. Leach sued and lost. I've heard that SI doesn't apply in voluntarily entered contracts, but I have no idea if that is actually true.

There is just too much at stake to take a win/lose, either/or position so the most likely outcome is some sort of settlement for a reduced exit fee and/or speedier exit timeline. I appreciate that Bowlsby is finally backing the conference and has publicly taken such a strong position, but it's almost certainly posturing to set the league up in an advantageously desirable situation wrt it's leverage in negotiating the settlement.
bear2be2
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historian said:

We already have the Big 12 SEC challenge in basketball (both MBB & WBB). Why not have something like that in football too? Some of us already have agreements with SEC teams that could be incorporated into an agreement: our home & home with Auburn, OSU has a home & home with Arkansas & another with Bama, Tech has Mississippi State & Arkansas, & W Virginia has a home & home with Alabama.
If The Alliance freezes out the SEC in noncon scheduling, Sankey may need some sort of scheduling agreement with the Big 12 to keep his team's nonconference schedules filled with something other than G5/FCS schools.
bear2be2
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ColoradoGRN&GLD said:

It's nice to think the B12 has all the leverage, but the reality is that OUUT do have a couple of cards to play. a GoR has never been tested in court. If they wanted to challenge the validity and constitutionality of a GoR it would take yrs of litigation and an unholy amount of $ in lawyer's fees. Worst case scenario is that the courts decide that GoR's are not legally binding and the B12 gets screwed and walks away with nothing. Best case is that the B12 wins, OUUT is forced to pay every penny, but the lawyers end up walking away with whatever they get.

There is also the scorched earth path where they claim Sovereign Immunity. TTU already did it to Leach when they fired him. Leach sued and lost. I've heard that SI doesn't apply in voluntarily entered contracts, but I have no idea if that is actually true.

There is just too much at stake to take a win/lose, either/or position so the most likely outcome is some sort of settlement for a reduced exit fee and/or speedier exit timeline. I appreciate that Bowlsby is finally backing the conference and has publicly taken such a strong position, but it's almost certainly posturing to set the league up in an advantageously desirable situation wrt it's leverage in negotiating the settlement.
What basis would the courts have to void a legal, mutually-agreed upon business contract?

I think the silence from OUT administration speaks volumes. They played with fire, thinking that the Big 12 would just disband without them, and got burned. If they had a legitimate way to wiggle out the GoR deal, we'd have heard some grumblings (at least) by now. Instead, there's radio silence and public comment that they plan to stay in the league through the remainder of the contract.

I think OUT knows they screwed up. The Big 12's survival put them in a really tough spot, and they're getting to see what it's like to have terms dictated to them for once.

OUT can leave whenever they want. Write the check for the full amount owed according to the terms they both agreed to, and they can go enjoy their new lives in the SEC. Until then, they get to stay in the league they tried and failed to destroy.
Robert Wilson
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ColoradoGRN&GLD said:

It's nice to think the B12 has all the leverage, but the reality is that OUUT do have a couple of cards to play. a GoR has never been tested in court. If they wanted to challenge the validity and constitutionality of a GoR it would take yrs of litigation and an unholy amount of $ in lawyer's fees. Worst case scenario is that the courts decide that GoR's are not legally binding and the B12 gets screwed and walks away with nothing. Best case is that the B12 wins, OUUT is forced to pay every penny, but the lawyers end up walking away with whatever they get.

There is also the scorched earth path where they claim Sovereign Immunity. TTU already did it to Leach when they fired him. Leach sued and lost. I've heard that SI doesn't apply in voluntarily entered contracts, but I have no idea if that is actually true.

There is just too much at stake to take a win/lose, either/or position so the most likely outcome is some sort of settlement for a reduced exit fee and/or speedier exit timeline. I appreciate that Bowlsby is finally backing the conference and has publicly taken such a strong position, but it's almost certainly posturing to set the league up in an advantageously desirable situation wrt it's leverage in negotiating the settlement.


Problem with that the way this works the conference holds the money, so OUT have yo file suit. No sovereign immunity if the state institution is the one that files. GOR was very carefully constructed after this last round of realignment. OUT has to sue to go get the money that the contract clearly says OUT isn't entitled to. They are in a tough spot.

Add - now the B12 looks strong legally, relationally, and competitively. OUT will proceed to SEC and make more money. They'll just have to take the financial hit to get there. Some over there are probably silently wondering about the overall wisdom of their treachery, but they'll never say it.
ColoradoGRN&GLD
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Robert Wilson said:


Problem with that the way this works the conference holds the money, so OUT have yo file suit. No sovereign immunity if the state institution is the one that files.
I did not know that. Thanks for the info. Makes me feel a lot better in the B12s position.

As far as what basis would the courts have? I have no idea. I just know that judges are not infallible and there have been MANY court decisions that have puzzled me over the yrs.
atomicblast
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LOL at trying to separate amicably. **** both those schools. Scorched earth and burnt bridges. There are no feelings of friendliness we've ever had from those two.
Robert Wilson
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ColoradoGRN&GLD said:

Robert Wilson said:


Problem with that the way this works the conference holds the money, so OUT have yo file suit. No sovereign immunity if the state institution is the one that files.
I did not know that. Thanks for the info. Makes me feel a lot better in the B12s position.

As far as what basis would the courts have? I have no idea. I just know that judges are not infallible and there have been MANY court decisions that have puzzled me over the yrs.


No doubt that is true. But here we hold the cash, the contracts are meticulously clear, and they have to sue, so the burden is really on them.
Aliceinbubbleland
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I just want our damned money those suckers stole from us. I sure hope our Treasurer has an idea of how much money they ripped off from us just because OUT was unhappy with Baylor.
EvilTroyAndAbed
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MommaBear said:

So, is the SEC ok with Texas keeping their Longhorn channel after they move?
No. No, they are not.
TellMeYouLoveMe
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ColoradoGRN&GLD said:

Robert Wilson said:


Problem with that the way this works the conference holds the money, so OUT have yo file suit. No sovereign immunity if the state institution is the one that files.
I did not know that. Thanks for the info. Makes me feel a lot better in the B12s position.

As far as what basis would the courts have? I have no idea. I just know that judges are not infallible and there have been MANY court decisions that have puzzled me over the yrs.
I can only add two things.

1) it's in the hands of Big12s external legal counsel, so they likely just get an update across the board to all members. Which is to say that Bowlsby can't f it up. Basically it's a group email at this point.

2) time is on the Big12s side. They really aren't compelled to react in any way other than to move some logos around on a sign. They aren't technically holding anyone hostage, the terms are clear. That puts tremendous pressure on Texas. Oklahoma is cash strapped. They have a wanker lawyer as a president but I'm fairly sure that exit fee is prohibitive and they want UT to foot the bill.

Economically speaking, the Big12 is a pass through entity, so it lives and dies on the TV contract. Because of that, you have a litany of thorny legal issues if one party negotiates in bad faith or is duplicitous and goes around the other parties. Meaning TexZero can't throw any punches that harm another party directly.

I don't know what the final amount will be, but the exit parties are gonna pay.

Just my bet.
but I sure as hell know plenty of them and I talk to them a lot, including during the search. And NOTHING was leaked.
Aliceinbubbleland
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Quote:

1) it's in the hands of Big12s external legal counsel, so they likely just get an update across the board to all members. Which is to say that Bowlsby can't f it up. Basically it's a group email at this point.

I don't trust him. I hope the legal counsel you speak of has access to Bowlsby's phone calls from OUT. No telling what those two might offer the ****** to grease skids.
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