Frankly I'm surprised OU isn't looking 3-4 miles SW of town and partnering with Riverwinds Casino just across the Canadian River from Norman.

Meaningless historical tidbit: The Canadian River was the border between Indian Territory (southern half of the state) and Oklahoma Territory (the area to the north opened up in the 1889 land rush) and runs NW/SE a mile or two south of Norman. Then again, maybe it's a bad look to play somewhere that you could go make a prop bet at the concession stand during a timeout in the game.

Redbrickbear said:

---

Edmond Bear said:

---

A few notes:

• The proposed arena is 8,000 seats, not much bigger than Foster. With 23k undergraduates in Norman, OU's undergrad population is 64% larger than Baylor.
• OU + Private Sources is proposing to fund 40% of arena costs and make Norman fund the remainder. If you do the math based on Foster size, Foster cost, subtract Waco cost, you get about $188m in arena costs which means OU + Private sources are offering $75m.

In short, this seems like a total scam.

Norman turned down another arena proposal from OU in 2017. Will be interesting to see if Norman feels hostage to this proposal.

---

Not to mention that downtown Oklahoma City is 25 mins driving time from campus.

Imagine if Baylor's campus was 25 mins driving time from downtown Dallas

---

Not exactly a good comparison: OKC is nothing like Dallas if the Metroplex in terms of population, economy, entertainment options, restaurants, everything.

Maybe he was thinking about rush hour!

Edmond Bear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Didn't Oklahoma just build an arena for the Thunder and it is building a new one?

---

Yes - $900million. Should be nice.

---

That seems wildly extravagant gif a basketball arena. Heck, that would probably be a lot for a toned football stadium. Maybe not, Bidenflation affects everything these days!

historian said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Edmond Bear said:

---

A few notes:

• The proposed arena is 8,000 seats, not much bigger than Foster. With 23k undergraduates in Norman, OU's undergrad population is 64% larger than Baylor.
• OU + Private Sources is proposing to fund 40% of arena costs and make Norman fund the remainder. If you do the math based on Foster size, Foster cost, subtract Waco cost, you get about $188m in arena costs which means OU + Private sources are offering $75m.

In short, this seems like a total scam.

Norman turned down another arena proposal from OU in 2017. Will be interesting to see if Norman feels hostage to this proposal.

---

Not to mention that downtown Oklahoma City is 25 mins driving time from campus.

Imagine if Baylor's campus was 25 mins driving time from downtown Dallas

---

Not exactly a good comparison: OKC is nothing like Dallas if the Metroplex in terms of population, economy, entertainment options, restaurants, everything.

---

Coming from someone who has lived in both places, Exception for population and economy, OKC blows Dallas away.

The biggest difference? Because there is a smaller population, it's all actually accessible in OKC.

Redbrickbear said:

---

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

parch said:

---

Edmond Bear said:

---

parch said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Universities seem to be more and more focused on turning into resorts now....and the tuition reflects that

---

Private ones maybe. OU is $9k/year for in-state students and $25k for out-of-state. Even at the highest payment tier with zero scholarships, which is rare, you can have your loan paid off by 30 with a normal payment plan. And the reciprocal effect from advancing your career means that on average that investment is well worth the cost once you retire.

Tuition runaway is largely hitting private schools, like Baylor. TCU costs an average in-state student almost six times in tuition what it costs to get an objectively better education and school experience at UT. Highway robbery.

---

$9k is tuition only. Total cost of attendance is around $32k. It's still a bargain compared to private schools.

I agree that OU is not interested in becoming a resort or even supporting their students. Have a lot of friends who are OU alums that had their kids look and were seriously disappointed in the campus activity and student life. And, those that did attend, were disappointed in classes. Most of those kids end up at Arkansas.

---

Looks like average cost with scholarships and aid factored is around $20K, which is not bad.

I don't know what I expected, but I was shocked to see OU's acceptance rate is around 75%. I'd thought they were more sought-after/exclusive than that, but not sure why. Maybe the influence of a historically successful football program, dunno. Have not heard great things from all but the most homer of football boosters though.

---

Public schools have high acceptance rates due to their relationship with the state, and even when they are lower, they're still much higher than similar private schools. Basically, if a public schools has an acceptance rate below ~35%, they are essentially top shelf in terms of that variable - for private schools, that line is ~10%.

---

Besides Michigan, u.t. Austin, UC Berkeley, or UVA who would would fall in that category of great public with a low acceptance rate?

IU Bloomington for instance is a really good school…yet it has an 82% acceptable rate

---

UCLA, Georgia Tech, UC-Irvine, UC-SD, UC-SB, etc. would all make the list.

BluesBear said:

---

Stop giving them money. Period. Unless you are providing royalty checks each year back to the citizens, enough of this tax payer imposed fees for Billionaires who don't want to use their own money. Another scam...

---

That is freaking crazy talk. Taxpayer funded assets have transformed OKC into something really great. What do I care if a billionaire makes more money? I get the benefit of having a much better place to live.

I will take your word for it. I've never been to OK.

My wife got her Master's from OU. We went up there for her graduation.

There is this weird ghost town area by "downtown" that seems like someone made a small model of San Antonio but then abandoned it. I think there was one or two restaurants with a lot of boarded up, vacant buildings and some abandoned boats that for some reason some idiot thought folks would want to pay to tour a sewer.

Strange place. Literally could hear a pin drop it was so abandoned. Maybe OU basketball could bring some life down there and inject some energy into that place.

Edmond Bear said:

---

BluesBear said:

---

Stop giving them money. Period. Unless you are providing royalty checks each year back to the citizens, enough of this tax payer imposed fees for Billionaires who don't want to use their own money. Another scam...

---

That is freaking crazy talk. Taxpayer funded assets have transformed OKC into something really great. What do I care if a billionaire makes more money? I get the benefit of having a much better place to live.

---

Perfect. I want you to give me $250k so I can open a restaurant. You will be able to come and dine, pay for your meal of course, while I keep all the profits from the business. I will have annual improvements necessary to maintain the business facilities I'll need you to pay for and, of course, I will need extra money to fund any special interests groups I want to give money. I will likely need to charge you more money each year but don't worry - you will still be able to come dine at the restaurant and pay for it. Now, as the business owner, I will take what I need from "petty" cash and I will never have to pay for any of my meals.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

My wife got her Master's from OU. We went up there for her graduation.

There is this weird ghost town area by "downtown" that seems like someone made a small model of San Antonio but then abandoned it. I think there was one or two restaurants with a lot of boarded up, vacant buildings and some abandoned boats that for some reason some idiot thought folks would want to pay to tour a sewer.

Strange place. Literally could hear a pin drop it was so abandoned. Maybe OU basketball could bring some life down there and inject some energy into that place.

---

Sounds a lot like Waco's downtown around the late 90s and early 2000s

BluesBear said:

---

Edmond Bear said:

---

BluesBear said:

---

Stop giving them money. Period. Unless you are providing royalty checks each year back to the citizens, enough of this tax payer imposed fees for Billionaires who don't want to use their own money. Another scam...

---

That is freaking crazy talk. Taxpayer funded assets have transformed OKC into something really great. What do I care if a billionaire makes more money? I get the benefit of having a much better place to live.

---

Perfect. I want you to give me $250k so I can open a restaurant. You will be able to come and dine, pay for your meal of course, while I keep all the profits from the business. I will have annual improvements necessary to maintain the business facilities I'll need you to pay for and, of course, I will need extra money to fund any special interests groups I want to give money. I will likely need to charge you more money each year but don't worry - you will still be able to come dine at the restaurant and pay for it. Now, as the business owner, I will take what I need from "petty" cash and I will never have to pay for any of my meals.

---

Be big enough to move the needle and let's talk.

Find it odd for anyone to consider Norman a separate stand alone from OKC just like anyone who considers Tempe completely separate from Phoenix.

Eventually, universities will figure out that thier "amateur" sports programs are nothing of the sort, and that they myth of the "student athlete" is a joke. They'll spin off the sports franchise, license the IP and take a royalty check then just let it run itself.

In 15 years, college football will largely exist outside of the university proper. And then my level of interest will be at zero.

Oh, and if you're going to comit blackmail, at least wear some socks!

OsoCoreyell said:

---

In 15 years, college football will largely exist outside of the university proper. And then my level of interest will be at zero.

---

That would basically make college football the NFL minor leagues and take away so much of what makes college football special.

In that scenario I'd much rather just stick with the P2 model and let SEC/B1G have the semi-pro model....and the rest of us have a product more similar to traditional college football.

boognish_bear said:

---

OsoCoreyell said:

---

In 15 years, college football will largely exist outside of the university proper. And then my level of interest will be at zero.

---

That would basically make college football the NFL minor leagues and take away so much of what makes college football special.

In that scenario I'd much rather just stick with the P2 model and let SEC/B1G have the semi-pro model....and the rest of us have a product more similar to traditional college football.

---

That's what I'm saying. Maybe we don't really want to be on this ride.

BluesBear said:

---

Edmond Bear said:

---

BluesBear said:

---

Stop giving them money. Period. Unless you are providing royalty checks each year back to the citizens, enough of this tax payer imposed fees for Billionaires who don't want to use their own money. Another scam...

---

That is freaking crazy talk. Taxpayer funded assets have transformed OKC into something really great. What do I care if a billionaire makes more money? I get the benefit of having a much better place to live.

---

Perfect. I want you to give me $250k so I can open a restaurant. You will be able to come and dine, pay for your meal of course, while I keep all the profits from the business. I will have annual improvements necessary to maintain the business facilities I'll need you to pay for and, of course, I will need extra money to fund any special interests groups I want to give money. I will likely need to charge you more money each year but don't worry - you will still be able to come dine at the restaurant and pay for it. Now, as the business owner, I will take what I need from "petty" cash and I will never have to pay for any of my meals.

---

You must be a member of Congress! You described their attitudes towards taxpayers perfectly.

boognish_bear said:

---

Edmond Bear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Didn't Oklahoma just build an arena for the Thunder and it is building a new one?

---

Yes - $900million. Should be nice.

---

That is a wild amount of money. Are they splitting the funding between the city and the team?

---

Not from what I've seen. The majority of the funds are paid for via tax.

The idea of taxing oneself to make rich people even richer is mind boggling to me.

The logic of these things is so wrong. These are not investments in the community, they are income transfers from people with less money to people with much more money. Investors are willing to invest because they expect a direct return, that is, they expect to receive more money than they put in either through reselling the asset or the cash flow it generates. And they expect to receive it directly, personally.

The vast majority of people who "invest" through their taxes in these kinds of grifts receive no income at all, they don't go to the games or the entertainment area and they are made less rich, in fact, by having their taxes increase.

Make no mistake, these kinds of deals are nothing but grifts, Jerry Jones, the Hunts et al are getting rich on the backs of poor people. They should be resisted at every turn.

The part that is REALLY galling about this is that THIS IS AN ARM OF THE OKLAHOMA STATE GOVERMENT. The state legislature should fire this guy for even breathing the concept that the University of Oklahoma sports complex might pit communities within the state against each other to grift the taxpayers. This is offensive in the extreme. That this threat is being leveled by some no-sock wearing ******bag makes it intolerable. If I was the governor of that state, I'd have that guy on the carpet in my office in short order and explain to him how state government works and then fire him on the spot.

…. with TV cameras rolling so that every other govt employee understands their job.

OsoCoreyell said:

---

The part that is REALLY galling about this is that THIS IS AN ARM OF THE OKLAHOMA STATE GOVERMENT. The state legislature should fire this guy for even breathing the concept that the University of Oklahoma sports complex might pit communities within the state against each other to grift the taxpayers. This is offensive in the extreme. That this threat is being leveled by some no-sock wearing ******bag makes it intolerable. If I was the governor of that state, I'd have that guy on the carpet in my office in short order and explain to him how state government works and then fire him on the spot.

---

State governments all over this country have essentially made the flagship state institutions functionally independent and basically untouchable.

They are afraid to make them angry or effective police them because of the power of their alumni and the vast resources they maintain.

(For example look at how u.t. Austin with their $45 billion dollar system endowment often flaunts state demands and regularly treats elected legislators -often conservatives- with utter contempt)

To big to fail or maybe we should say to big to be reigned in has come to academia.

The days when an elected governor could haul a major flagship university president into his office and chew him out has passed

Redbrickbear said:

---

OsoCoreyell said:

---

The part that is REALLY galling about this is that THIS IS AN ARM OF THE OKLAHOMA STATE GOVERMENT. The state legislature should fire this guy for even breathing the concept that the University of Oklahoma sports complex might pit communities within the state against each other to grift the taxpayers. This is offensive in the extreme. That this threat is being leveled by some no-sock wearing ******bag makes it intolerable. If I was the governor of that state, I'd have that guy on the carpet in my office in short order and explain to him how state government works and then fire him on the spot.

---

State governments all over this country have essentially made the flagship state institutions functionally independent and basically untouchable.

They are afraid to make them angry or effective police them because of the power of their alumni and the vast resources they maintain.

(For example look at how u.t. Austin with their $45 billion dollar system endowment often flaunts state demands and regularly treats elected legislators -often conservatives- with utter contempt)

To big to fail or maybe we should say to big to be reigned in has come to academia.

The days when an elected governor could haul a major flagship university president into his office and chew him out has passed

---

Only if we let it.

Redbrickbear said:

---

OsoCoreyell said:

---

The part that is REALLY galling about this is that THIS IS AN ARM OF THE OKLAHOMA STATE GOVERMENT. The state legislature should fire this guy for even breathing the concept that the University of Oklahoma sports complex might pit communities within the state against each other to grift the taxpayers. This is offensive in the extreme. That this threat is being leveled by some no-sock wearing ******bag makes it intolerable. If I was the governor of that state, I'd have that guy on the carpet in my office in short order and explain to him how state government works and then fire him on the spot.

---

The days when an elected governor could haul a major flagship university president into his office and chew him out has passed

---

not sure how it works in OK, but the head of the Legislative Budget Board in TX can threaten to pull funding from a ******bag school president. it's been done before

of course, not everyone has the pull of a bob bullock and those days may indeed be gone

historian said:

---

I will take your word for it. I've never been to OK.

---

Married to an OKC native and OU alum for almost 42 years now. I grew up in San Antonio but have lived in Dallas since '78. I like OKC better.

I can see why: OKC is a much smaller city.

Yogi said:

---

How many mobile homes does it take to make an entertainment district these days?

---

It's not just the number of mobile homes, they have to be reinforced to hold the weight of the stripper poles plus the entertainers.

Thankfully

Like the old Floyd Casey aka Baylor stadium …

Maybe they'll move to Nebraska lol

boognish_bear said:

---

That would basically make college football the NFL minor leagues and take away so much of what makes college football special.

---

Most of what made college football special died with realignment, and NIL was the nail in the coffin.

I'm not sure I'd say "mist" but certainly far too much, especially the regional rivalries that are important to fans. For example, the end of Bedlam is a disaster.