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Demise of the Southwest Conference

2,841 Views | 17 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Saddle Up!
gobears20
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Staff
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30424417/i-wishof-well-demise-southwest-conference-25-years-later
George Truett
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Thanks for posting.

I miss the old SWC. But it did itself in.

Arkansas griped constantly about unfair treatment because it was the only out of state school.

But they've yet to achieve the heights they achieved in the SWC.
Mr Tulip
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A conference built with Texas schools using Texas talent made sense until money happened. When TV started showing more than 2 games per Saturday, and the conferences got to keep the contract cash, only playing games for the State of Texas became a liability.

With cable still king, branching out to include the lucrative markets of Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa, and Nebraska only slightly improved the situation. However, there weren't a lot of other options.

It will be interesting to see how the next paradigm moves. The guys printing compact discs thought they were printing $20 bills until suddenly they weren't. College sports command top entertainment dollar. Will they still do so when the stadiums open again?
Big12Bear
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I read the article in its entirety and that really brought back memories, both good and bad.

I disagree on the angle that it was shocking that Houston didn't get an invite to the Big 12 simply because they were a public school and deserved to be there for that sole reason. They were bottom of the barrel in football the last few years of the SWC, along with their attendance, which was abysmal even when they were fielding exciting winning teams in '89-'90.

BU finished pretty strong the last couple of years (relative to the other SWC schools) and finished 3rd in attendance in '95, behind UT and A&M, but ahead of Tech and everyone else.

It was also satisfying sending Arkansas out with a thud the last two years in '90 & '91. Time has healed some of the Arkansas wound, and, truth be told, would love them in the Big 12 one day, although that's extremely, extremely unlikely to happen.
PartyBear
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The SWC was originally Baylor, Texas, TCU, A&M, OU, OSU (called Oklahoma A&M backe then), Phillips (a school in Northwestern OK not sure if still exists) Arkansas, Southwestern (in Georgetown has not had athletics in decades I think) and Rice. I thought SMU was a charter member but they joined a year or two after the SWC was established to replace Southwestern who dropped out.

Apparently the idea of the conference came from the AD at UT back then. He asked several Texas schools and schools in neighboring states if they wanted to start a conference. The above listed said yes. Interestingly LSU and Ole Miss were asked as well but they declined.
Texasjeremy
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RECORDS IN THE LAST YEARS OF THE SWC

LAST 5 YEARS
1. Texas A&M 51-8-1 (.858) ----- 4 bowls
2. Texas 34-22-2 (.603) ----- 2 bowls
3. Baylor 34-24 (.586) ----- 3 bowls
4. Texas Tech 32-26 (.552) ----- 3 bowls
5. TCU 26-29-1 (.473) ----- 1 bowl
6. Rice 23-31-1 (.427) ----- 0 bowls
7. Houston 12-42-1 (.227) ----- 0 bowls
8. SMU 10-42-3 (.209) ----- 0 bowls

LAST 10 YEARS
1. Texas A&M 94-25-2 (.785) ----- 8 bowls
2. Baylor 66-47-1 (.583) ----- 4 bowls
3. Texas 65-48-2 (.574) ----- 4 bowls
4. Texas Tech 63-51-1 (.552) ----- 5 bowls
5. TCU 47-63-1 (.428) ----- 1 bowl
6. Houston 45-64-2 (.414) ----- 1 bowl
7. Rice 36-72-2 (.336) ----- 0 bowls
8. SMU 19-66-3 (.233) ----- 0 bowls

LAST 20 YEARS
1. Texas A&M 163-70-3 (.697) ----- 13 bowls
2. Texas 151-78-5 (.656) ----- 13 bowls
3. Baylor 129-95-1 (.576) ----- 7 bowls
4. Houston 115-108-4 (.515) ----- 7 bowls
5. Texas Tech 111-111-5 (.500) ----- 7 bowls
6. SMU 90-107-5 (.458) ----- 4 bowls
7. TCU 71-145-6 (.333) ----- 2 bowls
8. Rice 57-161-2 (.264) ----- 0 bowls
Stranger
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PartyBear said:

The SWC was originally Baylor, Texas, TCU, A&M, OU, OSU (called Oklahoma A&M backe then), Phillips (a school in Northwestern OK not sure if still exists) Arkansas, Southwestern (in Georgetown has not had athletics in decades I think) and Rice. I thought SMU was a charter member but they joined a year or two after the SWC was established to replace Southwestern who dropped out.

Apparently the idea of the conference came from the AD at UT back then. He asked several Texas schools and schools in neighboring states if they wanted to start a conference. The above listed said yes. Interestingly LSU and Ole Miss were asked as well but they declined.


Phillips University was in Enid, Oklahoma. It was a private college owned by the Disciples of Christ (Christian Church).

It went broke and closed in 1998. In 1999, it was bought and reopened by Northern Oklahoma College.
I'm a Bearbacker
Chamberman
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Big12Bear said:

I disagree on the angle that it was shocking that Houston didn't get an invite to the Big 12 simply because they were a public school and deserved to be there for that sole reason. They were bottom of the barrel in football the last few years of the SWC, along with their attendance, which was abysmal even when they were fielding exciting winning teams in '89-'90.

While it was political that Baylor got the invite to the Big XII along with UT, A&M and TT, many people assume it was because Anne Richards, Texas governor at the time and Baylor alum. But, no, it was because of the Lt. Governor, Bob Bullock, a TT undergrad alum, and Baylor Law school alum.

The Big 8 had invited UT and A&M, but they needed Texas state legislature approval. Bullock negotiated the deal to include TT and Baylor. As Texasjeremy indicates, we deserved to be in on our record alone.

The rest is history.
RegentCoverup
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Yeah, the idea that Baylor politicked it's way in is just sour economic grapes.

The metric of ANY network is eyeballs on the TV set. Having just three teams in a state with 30 million people isn't enough. Texas should have had 5 teams at least, maybe 6.

Kansas has two teams with a population of 2 mllion and Oklahoma has two teams with a population of 3.5 mil. Colorado is the star of no conference, and their university is a joke. Their recent football success at the time of the conference saved them. But really, Colorado folded it's way into irrelevance.

The management of the SWC ran it in the ground and the management of the Big 8 was sort of in a position like an acquiring corporation. Now the economics have swung against the original Big 8.

A lot of Big 8 schools are flatlining economically. They can't spend on facilities, coaches contracts are almost under the table and the SEC is outearning everyone. The entire reason that was floated for Kansas was basketball and now the open secret about paying players is well known, even if unpunished by the NCAA. There isn't a conference in the US that wants a cheating Kansas.

It will always be a political issue, because we're fundamentally still talking about amateur athletes and government resources. The problem is now the question is, "Who wants to be in a conference with the University of Texas?"

A lot of AD's will tell you no.

The reason it happened has retired, but there was no benefit to the conference in losing Mizzou, Nebraska, Arkansas and A&M.

This site leaks private information to Baylor Regents and Administration
TeamPlayer
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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

Yeah, the idea that Baylor politicked it's way in is just sour economic grapes.

The metric of ANY network is eyeballs on the TV set. Having just three teams in a state with 30 million people isn't enough. Texas should have had 5 teams at least, maybe 6.

Kansas has two teams with a population of 2 mllion and Oklahoma has two teams with a population of 3.5 mil. Colorado is the star of no conference, and their university is a joke. Their recent football success at the time of the conference saved them. But really, Colorado folded it's way into irrelevance.

The management of the SWC ran it in the ground and the management of the Big 8 was sort of in a position like an acquiring corporation. Now the economics have swung against the original Big 8.

A lot of Big 8 schools are flatlining economically. They can't spend on facilities, coaches contracts are almost under the table and the SEC is outearning everyone. The entire reason that was floated for Kansas was basketball and now the open secret about paying players is well known, even if unpunished by the NCAA.

It will always be a political issue, because we're fundamentally still talking about amateur athletes and government resources. The problem is now the question is, "Who wants to be in a conference with the University of Texas?"

A lot of AD's will tell you no.

The reason it happened has retired, but there was no benefit to the conference in losing Mizzou, Nebraska, Arkansas and A&M.


Very good post.

Pac 12 schools sailed past the flatlining stage years ago. I personally enjoy watching Pac 12 games and wish the TV contract revenue was shared equally across the Power 5 conferences. Long term, it's not healthy for college football to have such huge financial advantages in the SEC and Big 10. I wonder if further decreasing scholarship limits to 75 would help spread equal talent across the nation as well. Something needs to be done. The SEC has too much talent and resources for anyone to compete with them.
Big12Bear
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Chamberman said:

Big12Bear said:

I disagree on the angle that it was shocking that Houston didn't get an invite to the Big 12 simply because they were a public school and deserved to be there for that sole reason. They were bottom of the barrel in football the last few years of the SWC, along with their attendance, which was abysmal even when they were fielding exciting winning teams in '89-'90.

While it was political that Baylor got the invite to the Big XII along with UT, A&M and TT, many people assume it was because Anne Richards, Texas governor at the time and Baylor alum.

Ann Richards being a BU alum was the convenient and lazy refrain. She was too busy doing the Hook 'Em Horns sign courtside at every Texas game to care about Baylor.
RegentCoverup
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TeamPlayer said:


Very good post.

Pac 12 schools sailed past the flatlining stage years ago. I personally enjoy watching Pac 12 games and wish the TV contract revenue was shared equally across the Power 5 conferences. Long term, it's not healthy for college football to have such huge financial advantages in the SEC and Big 10. I wonder if further decreasing scholarship limits to 75 would help spread equal talent across the nation as well. Something needs to be done. The SEC has too much talent and resources for anyone to compete with them.
Two things are missing right now in college football.

1. Better quality week night games
2. Later time Past 8pm CST, games, much like the Pac12 games you mention.

Someone smart is going to innovate and fill that gap, but right now, BYU and UTah are the only programs that are making it interesting.

Absolutely agree with you on the SEC. They have a very captive market in fans and player talent.

The other salient point here that the writer doesn't get, is that Donnie Duncan completely and utterly outmaneuvered DeLoss Dodds. Why did we take so many dying Big 8 programs?
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RegentCoverup
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Quote:

Switzer: There were too damn many Little Sisters of the Poor. Private schools, church schools, small schools.

that quote is rich when you consider he lost a national title(vs Washington) because he and his coaching staff spent their pregame week at the Fontainebleu hotel getting trashed.

Dude's just a drunk...


Quote:

Carr: What amazed me was that three public institutions left the fourth one behind. Houston was just not acceptable to A&M and Texas, bottom line. They had emotion and more negativity than the [University of] Texas tea-sippers. Theirs was a social disdain. The tea-sippers weren't emotional, they were sophisticated and snobbish. They looked at the University of Houston as unworthy: "We won't give them the time of day."

Dropped my drink when I read that. I can think of a lot of ways to describe the alums of UT, but sophisticated is not one of them.


Quote:

Dodds: I think Nebraska felt they belonged in the Big 12, but I think Tom [Osborne] talked so much about Texas running the Big 12 that he fired up the fans up there that nobody liked Texas. Texas this, Texas that. On A&M, I think that was a call made by maybe a past coach there, people that had SEC ties. I don't think it was about television. I just think it was an opportunity that they could leave.

Every word of this is false. U of Texas demands were a factor in every team that left the conference. Every team.
This site leaks private information to Baylor Regents and Administration
TenBears
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Years ago I read this amazing article, probably written in the late 60's, about three couples hitting up 3 SWC games over the course of a weekend, including Baylor. I think it was Dan Jenkins or Bud Shrake or someone like that. I've been trying to find it but struck out. Really great nostalgic article for anyone who can find it.
Midnight Rider
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Chamberman said:

Big12Bear said:

I disagree on the angle that it was shocking that Houston didn't get an invite to the Big 12 simply because they were a public school and deserved to be there for that sole reason. They were bottom of the barrel in football the last few years of the SWC, along with their attendance, which was abysmal even when they were fielding exciting winning teams in '89-'90.

While it was political that Baylor got the invite to the Big XII along with UT, A&M and TT, many people assume it was because Anne Richards, Texas governor at the time and Baylor alum. But, no, it was because of the Lt. Governor, Bob Bullock, a TT undergrad alum, and Baylor Law school alum.

The Big 8 had invited UT and A&M, but they needed Texas state legislature approval. Bullock negotiated the deal to include TT and Baylor. As Texasjeremy indicates, we deserved to be in on our record alone.

The rest is history.
The story I remember is that Bullock told UT and A&M: "You sons of *****es can go anywhere you want, but you're taking Baylor and Tech with you,"
HarryMehre
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notbubbleboy said:

Years ago I read this amazing article, probably written in the late 60's, about three couples hitting up 3 SWC games over the course of a weekend, including Baylor. I think it was Dan Jenkins or Bud Shrake or someone like that. I've been trying to find it but struck out. Really great nostalgic article for anyone who can find it.
I believe it was in Sports Illustrated in 1963.

They went to the SMU-Navy game on Friday night in the Cotton Bowl. Navy's only regular season loss.

Saturday afternoon it was Texas-Oklahoma in the Cotton Bowl. After that game they headed to Waco to see Baylor play Arkansas (??). Seems like they got a speeding ticket in between Dallas and Waco.

Great story.
Johnny Bear
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George Truett said:

Thanks for posting.

I miss the old SWC. But it did itself in.

Arkansas griped constantly about unfair treatment because it was the only out of state school.

But they've yet to achieve the heights they achieved in the SWC.

Arky was still in the SWC the last time they won a conference title.
Robert Wilson
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Johnny Bear said:

George Truett said:

Thanks for posting.

I miss the old SWC. But it did itself in.

Arkansas griped constantly about unfair treatment because it was the only out of state school.

But they've yet to achieve the heights they achieved in the SWC.

Arky was still in the SWC the last time they won a conference title.
That may be true 50 years from now.
Saddle Up!
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Robert Wilson said:

Johnny Bear said:

George Truett said:

Thanks for posting.

I miss the old SWC. But it did itself in.

Arkansas griped constantly about unfair treatment because it was the only out of state school.

But they've yet to achieve the heights they achieved in the SWC.

Arky was still in the SWC the last time they won a conference title.
That may be true 50 years from now.
One can hope.
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