DAVID BARTON WANTS TO END SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

4,428 Views | 34 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by historian
Osodecentx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sorry for the length, but I didn't want to edit. It explores Bartons influence on Speaker Johnson.
I move the last paragraph to first because some folks are saying God ordained violence on Jan 6
New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.

TEXAS ACTIVIST DAVID BARTON WANTS TO END SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. HE HAS THE EAR OF THE NEW U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER.

BARTON HAS BEEN A STAPLE OF TEXAS' CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT, OFFERING CRUCIAL SUPPORT TO POLITICIANS AND FREQUENTLY BEING CITED OR CALLED ON TO TESTIFY IN FAVOR OF BILLS THAT CRITICS SAY WOULD ERODE CHURCH-STATE SEPARATIONS.

For nearly four decades, Texas activist David Barton has barnstormed statehouses and pulpits across the nation, arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation.
Now, he's closer to power than perhaps ever before.

One day after little-known Republican U.S. Rep. Mike Johnson of Louisiana was elected as the new House speaker last week, Barton said on a podcast that he was already discussing staffing with Johnson, his longtime ally in deeply conservative, Christian causes.
"We have some tools at our disposal now (that) we haven't had in a long time," Barton added.
Johnson recently spoke at an event hosted by Barton's nonprofit, WallBuilders; he's praised Barton and his "profound influence on me, and my work, and my life and everything I do"; and, before his career as a lawmaker, Johnson worked for Alliance Defending Freedom a legal advocacy group that has helped infuse more Christianity into public schools and government, a key goal of Barton's movement.
Barton, who lives in Aledo, has been a staple of Texas' own Christian conservative movement, offering crucial public support to politicians and frequently being cited or called on to testify in favor of bills that critics say would erode church-state separations including in front of the Texas Legislature this year.
Johnson's election and his proximity to Barton is a massive victory for a growing Christian nationalist movement that claims the United States' foundation was ordained by God, and therefore its laws and institutions should favor their brand of Christianity.
"Johnson's rise means that Barton and his fellow Christian nationalists now have unprecedented access to the levers of power on the national stage, paralleling the access they already have here in Texas and some other states," said David Brockman, a non-resident scholar in religion and public policy at Rice University's Baker Institute for Public Policy.

Barton and Johnson did not respond to requests for comment this week
Barton has spent nearly all of his life in North Texas, save for the few years he spent at Oral Roberts University, an evangelical school in Tulsa, Oklahoma. After graduating with a degree in religious education, he returned to Aledo and worked as a math and science teacher, basketball coach and, later, principal at a K-12 school that grew out of his parent's Bible study group, according to a 2006 Texas Monthly profile of him.
In 1988, Barton founded his group, WallBuilders, to "exert a direct and positive influence in government, education, and the family by educating the nation concerning the Godly foundation of our country" and "providing information to federal, state, and local officials as they develop public policies which reflect Biblical values," according to the group's website.
Since then, Barton has been arguably the most influential figure in a growing movement to undermine the establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment, which states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."
Barton claims the clause has been misunderstood. He argues that most of the Founding Fathers were "orthodox, evangelical" Christians, and that it would thus be more accurate to read the establishment clause's use of the word "religion" as a stand-in for "Christian denomination."
"We would best understand the actual context of the First Amendment by saying, 'Congress shall make no law establishing one Christian denomination as the national denomination,'" he has said.
Barton also argues that the country's founders "never intended the First Amendment to become a vehicle to promote a pluralism of other religions."
In his mind, the wall separating church and state was only meant to extend one way, protecting religion specifically, Christianity from the government, but not vice versa.
"'Separation of church and state' currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant," his group's website claims.
And he argues that most of what he considers society's ills from school shootings, low standardized test scores and drug use to divorce, crime and LGBTQ+ people are the natural consequences of abandoning the Judeo-Christian virtues, as articulated in his form of Christianity, that he says are the bedrock of the nation's founding. Sometimes, he's drawn fire for those views such as when he said the lack of cure for AIDS was God's vengeance for homosexuality or when he compared the Third Reich's "evils'' to the "homosexual lifestyle" in 2017.
Barton, a self-styled "amateur historian," has for years been debunked and ridiculed by actual historians and scholars, who note that he has no formal training and that his work is filled with selective quotes, mischaracterizations and inaccuracies critiques that Barton has claimed are mere attacks on his faith. He has been accused of whitewashing the Founding Fathers particularly, their slave owning to fit his narrative of a God-ordained nation. He has acknowledged using unconfirmed quotes from historical figures. And Barton's 2012 book, "The Jefferson Lies," was so widely panned by Christian academics that it prompted a separate book, "Getting Jefferson Right," to debunk all of his inaccuracies, and was later pulled by its Christian publisher because "the basic truths just were not there."
Despite that, Barton has remained a fixture in conservative Christian circles and Republican Party politics. He served as vice chair of the Republican Party of Texas from 1997 to 2006 and, in 2004, was tapped for clergy outreach by President George W. Bush's reelection campaign. In 2010, his fellow Texan and prominent conservative personality Glenn Beck praised him as "the most important man in America right now." Barton was an early and important endorser of Sen. Ted Cruz's unexpected first win in 2012. And in 2016, Barton ran one of multiple super PACs that were crucial to Cruz's reelection.
"Having David Barton running the super PAC gives it a lot of validity for evangelicals and pastors," Mike Gonzalez, the South Carolina evangelical chair for the Cruz for President campaign, told the Daily Beast at the time.
In Texas, Barton has become increasingly instrumental among GOP politicians. He and WallBuilders currently work closely with Rick Green, a former state representative and current leader of Patriot Academy, a Dripping Springs-based group that trains young adults, churches and others how to "influence government policy with a Biblical worldview" and borrows heavily from Barton's teachings.
Barton has also railed against the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits tax-exempt groups, including churches, from direct political advocacy. And he is frequently called on to support laws that would infuse more Christianity into public life including in public schools. In May, he and his son, Timothy Barton, testified in favor of a bill which later failed that would have required all Texas public school classrooms to display the Ten Commandments.
During the hearing, Barton's work was praised as "great" by Sen. Donna Campbell, R-New Braunfels. His theories were echoed by Sen. Mayes Middleton, R-Galveston, who said that church-state separation is "not a real doctrine." And the bill's sponsor, Sen. Phil King, R-Weatherford, extolled Barton and his son as "esteemed witnesses."
Other prominent Texas Republicans have similarly echoed Barton's views, including Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, who has called the United States "a Christian nation" and said "there is no separation of church and state. It was not in the Constitution."
"We were a nation founded upon not the words of our founders, but the words of God because he wrote the Constitution," Patrick said last year.
The mainstreaming of Barton's views has corresponded with a series of U.S. Supreme Court decisions that have allowed for a greater infusion of Christianity into the public sphere, and a burgeoning Christian nationalist movement on the right that was turbocharged by former President Donald Trump and his promise to white evangelicals that "Christianity will have power" should they support him.
February polling from the Public Religion Research Institute found that more than half of Republicans adhere to or sympathize with foundational aspects of Christian nationalism, including beliefs that the U.S. should be a strictly Christian nation. Of those respondents, PRRI found, roughly half supported having an authoritarian leader who maintains Christian dominance in society. Experts have also found strong correlations between Christian nationalist beliefs and opposition to immigration, racial justice and religious diversity.
Johnson's election to House Speaker shows how normalized such beliefs have become, said Amanda Tyler, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, a Washington, D.C.-based group that advocates for a strong wall between government and religion. She noted that some Republicans including U.S. Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Georgia, have embraced the title of Christian nationalist in recent years.
Tyler said that Johnson's views are particularly concerning because of his background as both a Southern Baptist and as a constitutional lawyer. Baptists, she noted, have a long history of advocacy for strong church-state separations because of the persecution they faced during the country's founding a stance that she said Johnson has betrayed throughout his legal and political career.
"He has worked actively for these principles that further Christian nationalism," Tyler said. "I am also a Baptist, and to see someone who is a Baptist really reject foundational concepts of religious freedom for all concepts which are really core to what it means to be a Baptist is also very disheartening."
Johnson played a central role in attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election by crafting a legal brief that was signed by more than 100 U.S. House Republicans in support of a lawsuit filed by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton that sought to have election results thrown out in four swing states by President Joe Biden.
At the same time that he was aiding the legal charge to overturn the 2020 election, Johnson was also cultivating closer ties to figures in the New Apolostolic Reformation, a fast-growing movement of ultraconservative preachers, televangelists, self-described prophets and faith healers who abide by the "Seven Mountains Mandate" a Christian nationalist-adjacent theology that says Christians must fulfill a divine mandate to rule over all seven aspects of society (family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government) in order to usher in the "end times."
Driven by that theology, New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/11/03/david-barton-mike-johnson-texas-church-state-christianity/
4th and Inches
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx said:

sorry for the length, but I didn't want to edit. It explores Bartons influence on Speaker Johnson.
I move the last paragraph to first because some folks are saying God ordained violence on Jan 6
New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.

TEXAS ACTIVIST DAVID BARTON WANTS TO END SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. HE HAS THE EAR OF THE NEW U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER.

BARTON HAS BEEN A STAPLE OF TEXAS' CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT, OFFERING CRUCIAL SUPPORT TO POLITICIANS AND FREQUENTLY BEING CITED OR CALLED ON TO TESTIFY IN FAVOR OF BILLS THAT CRITICS SAY WOULD ERODE CHURCH-STATE SEPARATIONS.

For nearly four decades, Texas activist David Barton has barnstormed statehouses and pulpits across the nation, arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation.
Now, he's closer to power than perhaps ever before.

One day after little-known Republican U.S. Rep. Mike Johnson of Louisiana was elected as the new House speaker last week, Barton said on a podcast that he was already discussing staffing with Johnson, his longtime ally in deeply conservative, Christian causes.
"We have some tools at our disposal now (that) we haven't had in a long time," Barton added.
Johnson recently spoke at an event hosted by Barton's nonprofit, WallBuilders; he's praised Barton and his "profound influence on me, and my work, and my life and everything I do"; and, before his career as a lawmaker, Johnson worked for Alliance Defending Freedom a legal advocacy group that has helped infuse more Christianity into public schools and government, a key goal of Barton's movement.
Barton, who lives in Aledo, has been a staple of Texas' own Christian conservative movement, offering crucial public support to politicians and frequently being cited or called on to testify in favor of bills that critics say would erode church-state separations including in front of the Texas Legislature this year.
Johnson's election and his proximity to Barton is a massive victory for a growing Christian nationalist movement that claims the United States' foundation was ordained by God, and therefore its laws and institutions should favor their brand of Christianity.
"Johnson's rise means that Barton and his fellow Christian nationalists now have unprecedented access to the levers of power on the national stage, paralleling the access they already have here in Texas and some other states," said David Brockman, a non-resident scholar in religion and public policy at Rice University's Baker Institute for Public Policy.

Barton and Johnson did not respond to requests for comment this week
Barton has spent nearly all of his life in North Texas, save for the few years he spent at Oral Roberts University, an evangelical school in Tulsa, Oklahoma. After graduating with a degree in religious education, he returned to Aledo and worked as a math and science teacher, basketball coach and, later, principal at a K-12 school that grew out of his parent's Bible study group, according to a 2006 Texas Monthly profile of him.
In 1988, Barton founded his group, WallBuilders, to "exert a direct and positive influence in government, education, and the family by educating the nation concerning the Godly foundation of our country" and "providing information to federal, state, and local officials as they develop public policies which reflect Biblical values," according to the group's website.
Since then, Barton has been arguably the most influential figure in a growing movement to undermine the establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment, which states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."
Barton claims the clause has been misunderstood. He argues that most of the Founding Fathers were "orthodox, evangelical" Christians, and that it would thus be more accurate to read the establishment clause's use of the word "religion" as a stand-in for "Christian denomination."
"We would best understand the actual context of the First Amendment by saying, 'Congress shall make no law establishing one Christian denomination as the national denomination,'" he has said.
Barton also argues that the country's founders "never intended the First Amendment to become a vehicle to promote a pluralism of other religions."
In his mind, the wall separating church and state was only meant to extend one way, protecting religion specifically, Christianity from the government, but not vice versa.
"'Separation of church and state' currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant," his group's website claims.
And he argues that most of what he considers society's ills from school shootings, low standardized test scores and drug use to divorce, crime and LGBTQ+ people are the natural consequences of abandoning the Judeo-Christian virtues, as articulated in his form of Christianity, that he says are the bedrock of the nation's founding. Sometimes, he's drawn fire for those views such as when he said the lack of cure for AIDS was God's vengeance for homosexuality or when he compared the Third Reich's "evils'' to the "homosexual lifestyle" in 2017.
Barton, a self-styled "amateur historian," has for years been debunked and ridiculed by actual historians and scholars, who note that he has no formal training and that his work is filled with selective quotes, mischaracterizations and inaccuracies critiques that Barton has claimed are mere attacks on his faith. He has been accused of whitewashing the Founding Fathers particularly, their slave owning to fit his narrative of a God-ordained nation. He has acknowledged using unconfirmed quotes from historical figures. And Barton's 2012 book, "The Jefferson Lies," was so widely panned by Christian academics that it prompted a separate book, "Getting Jefferson Right," to debunk all of his inaccuracies, and was later pulled by its Christian publisher because "the basic truths just were not there."
Despite that, Barton has remained a fixture in conservative Christian circles and Republican Party politics. He served as vice chair of the Republican Party of Texas from 1997 to 2006 and, in 2004, was tapped for clergy outreach by President George W. Bush's reelection campaign. In 2010, his fellow Texan and prominent conservative personality Glenn Beck praised him as "the most important man in America right now." Barton was an early and important endorser of Sen. Ted Cruz's unexpected first win in 2012. And in 2016, Barton ran one of multiple super PACs that were crucial to Cruz's reelection.
"Having David Barton running the super PAC gives it a lot of validity for evangelicals and pastors," Mike Gonzalez, the South Carolina evangelical chair for the Cruz for President campaign, told the Daily Beast at the time.
In Texas, Barton has become increasingly instrumental among GOP politicians. He and WallBuilders currently work closely with Rick Green, a former state representative and current leader of Patriot Academy, a Dripping Springs-based group that trains young adults, churches and others how to "influence government policy with a Biblical worldview" and borrows heavily from Barton's teachings.
Barton has also railed against the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits tax-exempt groups, including churches, from direct political advocacy. And he is frequently called on to support laws that would infuse more Christianity into public life including in public schools. In May, he and his son, Timothy Barton, testified in favor of a bill which later failed that would have required all Texas public school classrooms to display the Ten Commandments.
During the hearing, Barton's work was praised as "great" by Sen. Donna Campbell, R-New Braunfels. His theories were echoed by Sen. Mayes Middleton, R-Galveston, who said that church-state separation is "not a real doctrine." And the bill's sponsor, Sen. Phil King, R-Weatherford, extolled Barton and his son as "esteemed witnesses."
Other prominent Texas Republicans have similarly echoed Barton's views, including Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, who has called the United States "a Christian nation" and said "there is no separation of church and state. It was not in the Constitution."
"We were a nation founded upon not the words of our founders, but the words of God because he wrote the Constitution," Patrick said last year.
The mainstreaming of Barton's views has corresponded with a series of U.S. Supreme Court decisions that have allowed for a greater infusion of Christianity into the public sphere, and a burgeoning Christian nationalist movement on the right that was turbocharged by former President Donald Trump and his promise to white evangelicals that "Christianity will have power" should they support him.
February polling from the Public Religion Research Institute found that more than half of Republicans adhere to or sympathize with foundational aspects of Christian nationalism, including beliefs that the U.S. should be a strictly Christian nation. Of those respondents, PRRI found, roughly half supported having an authoritarian leader who maintains Christian dominance in society. Experts have also found strong correlations between Christian nationalist beliefs and opposition to immigration, racial justice and religious diversity.
Johnson's election to House Speaker shows how normalized such beliefs have become, said Amanda Tyler, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, a Washington, D.C.-based group that advocates for a strong wall between government and religion. She noted that some Republicans including U.S. Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Georgia, have embraced the title of Christian nationalist in recent years.
Tyler said that Johnson's views are particularly concerning because of his background as both a Southern Baptist and as a constitutional lawyer. Baptists, she noted, have a long history of advocacy for strong church-state separations because of the persecution they faced during the country's founding a stance that she said Johnson has betrayed throughout his legal and political career.
"He has worked actively for these principles that further Christian nationalism," Tyler said. "I am also a Baptist, and to see someone who is a Baptist really reject foundational concepts of religious freedom for all concepts which are really core to what it means to be a Baptist is also very disheartening."
Johnson played a central role in attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election by crafting a legal brief that was signed by more than 100 U.S. House Republicans in support of a lawsuit filed by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton that sought to have election results thrown out in four swing states by President Joe Biden.
At the same time that he was aiding the legal charge to overturn the 2020 election, Johnson was also cultivating closer ties to figures in the New Apolostolic Reformation, a fast-growing movement of ultraconservative preachers, televangelists, self-described prophets and faith healers who abide by the "Seven Mountains Mandate" a Christian nationalist-adjacent theology that says Christians must fulfill a divine mandate to rule over all seven aspects of society (family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government) in order to usher in the "end times."
Driven by that theology, New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/11/03/david-barton-mike-johnson-texas-church-state-christianity/

should have lead with Texas tribune and I could have not wasted my time..
“The Internet is just a world passing around notes in a classroom.”

Jon Stewart
JXL
How long do you want to ignore this user?
David Barton has some interesting books and videos. It's certainly a good idea to check his quotes with the original sources, but he isn't wrong all the time.
Realitybites
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Quote:

Barton also argues that the country's founders "never intended the First Amendment to become a vehicle to promote a pluralism of other religions."
In his mind, the wall separating church and state was only meant to extend one way, protecting religion specifically, Christianity from the government, but not vice versa.


He isn't wrong, particularly given the fact that "separation of church and state" originates from a letter from Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists assuring them of freedom from government persecution that they faced in Europe and intermittently in some of the colonies.

I suspect that had he had any inkling that the fallen descendants of the revolution would be using it to justify the Church of Satan and Wahabbism that he would have eaten the parchment instead of sending it.

Quote:

New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021


Interesting. That's the first I've heard of that. NAR is a group of heretical pentecostal/charismatic types.

They are the continuation of the Toronto Blessing type movement that Hank Hannegraaf critiqued on his Bible Answer Man show before he became Orthodox.

I don't know what type of church Barton goes to and whether or not he is NAR. He did go to college at Oral Roberts, and spent time as a youth pastor in Tulsa so its possible that he is involved in NAR.
KaiBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Amusing how some folks choose to fill their empty hours worrying about the most obscure things.


Osodecentx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

sorry for the length, but I didn't want to edit. It explores Bartons influence on Speaker Johnson.
I move the last paragraph to first because some folks are saying God ordained violence on Jan 6
New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.

TEXAS ACTIVIST DAVID BARTON WANTS TO END SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. HE HAS THE EAR OF THE NEW U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER.

BARTON HAS BEEN A STAPLE OF TEXAS' CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT, OFFERING CRUCIAL SUPPORT TO POLITICIANS AND FREQUENTLY BEING CITED OR CALLED ON TO TESTIFY IN FAVOR OF BILLS THAT CRITICS SAY WOULD ERODE CHURCH-STATE SEPARATIONS.

For nearly four decades, Texas activist David Barton has barnstormed statehouses and pulpits across the nation, arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation.
Now, he's closer to power than perhaps ever before.

One day after little-known Republican U.S. Rep. Mike Johnson of Louisiana was elected as the new House speaker last week, Barton said on a podcast that he was already discussing staffing with Johnson, his longtime ally in deeply conservative, Christian causes.
"We have some tools at our disposal now (that) we haven't had in a long time," Barton added.
Johnson recently spoke at an event hosted by Barton's nonprofit, WallBuilders; he's praised Barton and his "profound influence on me, and my work, and my life and everything I do"; and, before his career as a lawmaker, Johnson worked for Alliance Defending Freedom a legal advocacy group that has helped infuse more Christianity into public schools and government, a key goal of Barton's movement.
Barton, who lives in Aledo, has been a staple of Texas' own Christian conservative movement, offering crucial public support to politicians and frequently being cited or called on to testify in favor of bills that critics say would erode church-state separations including in front of the Texas Legislature this year.
Johnson's election and his proximity to Barton is a massive victory for a growing Christian nationalist movement that claims the United States' foundation was ordained by God, and therefore its laws and institutions should favor their brand of Christianity.
"Johnson's rise means that Barton and his fellow Christian nationalists now have unprecedented access to the levers of power on the national stage, paralleling the access they already have here in Texas and some other states," said David Brockman, a non-resident scholar in religion and public policy at Rice University's Baker Institute for Public Policy.

Barton and Johnson did not respond to requests for comment this week
Barton has spent nearly all of his life in North Texas, save for the few years he spent at Oral Roberts University, an evangelical school in Tulsa, Oklahoma. After graduating with a degree in religious education, he returned to Aledo and worked as a math and science teacher, basketball coach and, later, principal at a K-12 school that grew out of his parent's Bible study group, according to a 2006 Texas Monthly profile of him.
In 1988, Barton founded his group, WallBuilders, to "exert a direct and positive influence in government, education, and the family by educating the nation concerning the Godly foundation of our country" and "providing information to federal, state, and local officials as they develop public policies which reflect Biblical values," according to the group's website.
Since then, Barton has been arguably the most influential figure in a growing movement to undermine the establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment, which states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."
Barton claims the clause has been misunderstood. He argues that most of the Founding Fathers were "orthodox, evangelical" Christians, and that it would thus be more accurate to read the establishment clause's use of the word "religion" as a stand-in for "Christian denomination."
"We would best understand the actual context of the First Amendment by saying, 'Congress shall make no law establishing one Christian denomination as the national denomination,'" he has said.
Barton also argues that the country's founders "never intended the First Amendment to become a vehicle to promote a pluralism of other religions."
In his mind, the wall separating church and state was only meant to extend one way, protecting religion specifically, Christianity from the government, but not vice versa.
"'Separation of church and state' currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant," his group's website claims.
And he argues that most of what he considers society's ills from school shootings, low standardized test scores and drug use to divorce, crime and LGBTQ+ people are the natural consequences of abandoning the Judeo-Christian virtues, as articulated in his form of Christianity, that he says are the bedrock of the nation's founding. Sometimes, he's drawn fire for those views such as when he said the lack of cure for AIDS was God's vengeance for homosexuality or when he compared the Third Reich's "evils'' to the "homosexual lifestyle" in 2017.
Barton, a self-styled "amateur historian," has for years been debunked and ridiculed by actual historians and scholars, who note that he has no formal training and that his work is filled with selective quotes, mischaracterizations and inaccuracies critiques that Barton has claimed are mere attacks on his faith. He has been accused of whitewashing the Founding Fathers particularly, their slave owning to fit his narrative of a God-ordained nation. He has acknowledged using unconfirmed quotes from historical figures. And Barton's 2012 book, "The Jefferson Lies," was so widely panned by Christian academics that it prompted a separate book, "Getting Jefferson Right," to debunk all of his inaccuracies, and was later pulled by its Christian publisher because "the basic truths just were not there."
Despite that, Barton has remained a fixture in conservative Christian circles and Republican Party politics. He served as vice chair of the Republican Party of Texas from 1997 to 2006 and, in 2004, was tapped for clergy outreach by President George W. Bush's reelection campaign. In 2010, his fellow Texan and prominent conservative personality Glenn Beck praised him as "the most important man in America right now." Barton was an early and important endorser of Sen. Ted Cruz's unexpected first win in 2012. And in 2016, Barton ran one of multiple super PACs that were crucial to Cruz's reelection.
"Having David Barton running the super PAC gives it a lot of validity for evangelicals and pastors," Mike Gonzalez, the South Carolina evangelical chair for the Cruz for President campaign, told the Daily Beast at the time.
In Texas, Barton has become increasingly instrumental among GOP politicians. He and WallBuilders currently work closely with Rick Green, a former state representative and current leader of Patriot Academy, a Dripping Springs-based group that trains young adults, churches and others how to "influence government policy with a Biblical worldview" and borrows heavily from Barton's teachings.
Barton has also railed against the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits tax-exempt groups, including churches, from direct political advocacy. And he is frequently called on to support laws that would infuse more Christianity into public life including in public schools. In May, he and his son, Timothy Barton, testified in favor of a bill which later failed that would have required all Texas public school classrooms to display the Ten Commandments.
During the hearing, Barton's work was praised as "great" by Sen. Donna Campbell, R-New Braunfels. His theories were echoed by Sen. Mayes Middleton, R-Galveston, who said that church-state separation is "not a real doctrine." And the bill's sponsor, Sen. Phil King, R-Weatherford, extolled Barton and his son as "esteemed witnesses."
Other prominent Texas Republicans have similarly echoed Barton's views, including Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, who has called the United States "a Christian nation" and said "there is no separation of church and state. It was not in the Constitution."
"We were a nation founded upon not the words of our founders, but the words of God because he wrote the Constitution," Patrick said last year.
The mainstreaming of Barton's views has corresponded with a series of U.S. Supreme Court decisions that have allowed for a greater infusion of Christianity into the public sphere, and a burgeoning Christian nationalist movement on the right that was turbocharged by former President Donald Trump and his promise to white evangelicals that "Christianity will have power" should they support him.
February polling from the Public Religion Research Institute found that more than half of Republicans adhere to or sympathize with foundational aspects of Christian nationalism, including beliefs that the U.S. should be a strictly Christian nation. Of those respondents, PRRI found, roughly half supported having an authoritarian leader who maintains Christian dominance in society. Experts have also found strong correlations between Christian nationalist beliefs and opposition to immigration, racial justice and religious diversity.
Johnson's election to House Speaker shows how normalized such beliefs have become, said Amanda Tyler, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, a Washington, D.C.-based group that advocates for a strong wall between government and religion. She noted that some Republicans including U.S. Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Georgia, have embraced the title of Christian nationalist in recent years.
Tyler said that Johnson's views are particularly concerning because of his background as both a Southern Baptist and as a constitutional lawyer. Baptists, she noted, have a long history of advocacy for strong church-state separations because of the persecution they faced during the country's founding a stance that she said Johnson has betrayed throughout his legal and political career.
"He has worked actively for these principles that further Christian nationalism," Tyler said. "I am also a Baptist, and to see someone who is a Baptist really reject foundational concepts of religious freedom for all concepts which are really core to what it means to be a Baptist is also very disheartening."
Johnson played a central role in attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election by crafting a legal brief that was signed by more than 100 U.S. House Republicans in support of a lawsuit filed by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton that sought to have election results thrown out in four swing states by President Joe Biden.
At the same time that he was aiding the legal charge to overturn the 2020 election, Johnson was also cultivating closer ties to figures in the New Apolostolic Reformation, a fast-growing movement of ultraconservative preachers, televangelists, self-described prophets and faith healers who abide by the "Seven Mountains Mandate" a Christian nationalist-adjacent theology that says Christians must fulfill a divine mandate to rule over all seven aspects of society (family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government) in order to usher in the "end times."
Driven by that theology, New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/11/03/david-barton-mike-johnson-texas-church-state-christianity/

should have lead with Texas tribune and I could have not wasted my time..
I thought declaring Christianity to be the official state religion would be a problem

"arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation."
JXL
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx said:

4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

sorry for the length, but I didn't want to edit. It explores Bartons influence on Speaker Johnson.
I move the last paragraph to first because some folks are saying God ordained violence on Jan 6
New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.

TEXAS ACTIVIST DAVID BARTON WANTS TO END SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. HE HAS THE EAR OF THE NEW U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER.

BARTON HAS BEEN A STAPLE OF TEXAS' CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT, OFFERING CRUCIAL SUPPORT TO POLITICIANS AND FREQUENTLY BEING CITED OR CALLED ON TO TESTIFY IN FAVOR OF BILLS THAT CRITICS SAY WOULD ERODE CHURCH-STATE SEPARATIONS.

For nearly four decades, Texas activist David Barton has barnstormed statehouses and pulpits across the nation, arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation.
Now, he's closer to power than perhaps ever before.

One day after little-known Republican U.S. Rep. Mike Johnson of Louisiana was elected as the new House speaker last week, Barton said on a podcast that he was already discussing staffing with Johnson, his longtime ally in deeply conservative, Christian causes.
"We have some tools at our disposal now (that) we haven't had in a long time," Barton added.
Johnson recently spoke at an event hosted by Barton's nonprofit, WallBuilders; he's praised Barton and his "profound influence on me, and my work, and my life and everything I do"; and, before his career as a lawmaker, Johnson worked for Alliance Defending Freedom a legal advocacy group that has helped infuse more Christianity into public schools and government, a key goal of Barton's movement.
Barton, who lives in Aledo, has been a staple of Texas' own Christian conservative movement, offering crucial public support to politicians and frequently being cited or called on to testify in favor of bills that critics say would erode church-state separations including in front of the Texas Legislature this year.
Johnson's election and his proximity to Barton is a massive victory for a growing Christian nationalist movement that claims the United States' foundation was ordained by God, and therefore its laws and institutions should favor their brand of Christianity.
"Johnson's rise means that Barton and his fellow Christian nationalists now have unprecedented access to the levers of power on the national stage, paralleling the access they already have here in Texas and some other states," said David Brockman, a non-resident scholar in religion and public policy at Rice University's Baker Institute for Public Policy.

Barton and Johnson did not respond to requests for comment this week
Barton has spent nearly all of his life in North Texas, save for the few years he spent at Oral Roberts University, an evangelical school in Tulsa, Oklahoma. After graduating with a degree in religious education, he returned to Aledo and worked as a math and science teacher, basketball coach and, later, principal at a K-12 school that grew out of his parent's Bible study group, according to a 2006 Texas Monthly profile of him.
In 1988, Barton founded his group, WallBuilders, to "exert a direct and positive influence in government, education, and the family by educating the nation concerning the Godly foundation of our country" and "providing information to federal, state, and local officials as they develop public policies which reflect Biblical values," according to the group's website.
Since then, Barton has been arguably the most influential figure in a growing movement to undermine the establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment, which states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."
Barton claims the clause has been misunderstood. He argues that most of the Founding Fathers were "orthodox, evangelical" Christians, and that it would thus be more accurate to read the establishment clause's use of the word "religion" as a stand-in for "Christian denomination."
"We would best understand the actual context of the First Amendment by saying, 'Congress shall make no law establishing one Christian denomination as the national denomination,'" he has said.
Barton also argues that the country's founders "never intended the First Amendment to become a vehicle to promote a pluralism of other religions."
In his mind, the wall separating church and state was only meant to extend one way, protecting religion specifically, Christianity from the government, but not vice versa.
"'Separation of church and state' currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant," his group's website claims.
And he argues that most of what he considers society's ills from school shootings, low standardized test scores and drug use to divorce, crime and LGBTQ+ people are the natural consequences of abandoning the Judeo-Christian virtues, as articulated in his form of Christianity, that he says are the bedrock of the nation's founding. Sometimes, he's drawn fire for those views such as when he said the lack of cure for AIDS was God's vengeance for homosexuality or when he compared the Third Reich's "evils'' to the "homosexual lifestyle" in 2017.
Barton, a self-styled "amateur historian," has for years been debunked and ridiculed by actual historians and scholars, who note that he has no formal training and that his work is filled with selective quotes, mischaracterizations and inaccuracies critiques that Barton has claimed are mere attacks on his faith. He has been accused of whitewashing the Founding Fathers particularly, their slave owning to fit his narrative of a God-ordained nation. He has acknowledged using unconfirmed quotes from historical figures. And Barton's 2012 book, "The Jefferson Lies," was so widely panned by Christian academics that it prompted a separate book, "Getting Jefferson Right," to debunk all of his inaccuracies, and was later pulled by its Christian publisher because "the basic truths just were not there."
Despite that, Barton has remained a fixture in conservative Christian circles and Republican Party politics. He served as vice chair of the Republican Party of Texas from 1997 to 2006 and, in 2004, was tapped for clergy outreach by President George W. Bush's reelection campaign. In 2010, his fellow Texan and prominent conservative personality Glenn Beck praised him as "the most important man in America right now." Barton was an early and important endorser of Sen. Ted Cruz's unexpected first win in 2012. And in 2016, Barton ran one of multiple super PACs that were crucial to Cruz's reelection.
"Having David Barton running the super PAC gives it a lot of validity for evangelicals and pastors," Mike Gonzalez, the South Carolina evangelical chair for the Cruz for President campaign, told the Daily Beast at the time.
In Texas, Barton has become increasingly instrumental among GOP politicians. He and WallBuilders currently work closely with Rick Green, a former state representative and current leader of Patriot Academy, a Dripping Springs-based group that trains young adults, churches and others how to "influence government policy with a Biblical worldview" and borrows heavily from Barton's teachings.
Barton has also railed against the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits tax-exempt groups, including churches, from direct political advocacy. And he is frequently called on to support laws that would infuse more Christianity into public life including in public schools. In May, he and his son, Timothy Barton, testified in favor of a bill which later failed that would have required all Texas public school classrooms to display the Ten Commandments.
During the hearing, Barton's work was praised as "great" by Sen. Donna Campbell, R-New Braunfels. His theories were echoed by Sen. Mayes Middleton, R-Galveston, who said that church-state separation is "not a real doctrine." And the bill's sponsor, Sen. Phil King, R-Weatherford, extolled Barton and his son as "esteemed witnesses."
Other prominent Texas Republicans have similarly echoed Barton's views, including Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, who has called the United States "a Christian nation" and said "there is no separation of church and state. It was not in the Constitution."
"We were a nation founded upon not the words of our founders, but the words of God because he wrote the Constitution," Patrick said last year.
The mainstreaming of Barton's views has corresponded with a series of U.S. Supreme Court decisions that have allowed for a greater infusion of Christianity into the public sphere, and a burgeoning Christian nationalist movement on the right that was turbocharged by former President Donald Trump and his promise to white evangelicals that "Christianity will have power" should they support him.
February polling from the Public Religion Research Institute found that more than half of Republicans adhere to or sympathize with foundational aspects of Christian nationalism, including beliefs that the U.S. should be a strictly Christian nation. Of those respondents, PRRI found, roughly half supported having an authoritarian leader who maintains Christian dominance in society. Experts have also found strong correlations between Christian nationalist beliefs and opposition to immigration, racial justice and religious diversity.
Johnson's election to House Speaker shows how normalized such beliefs have become, said Amanda Tyler, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, a Washington, D.C.-based group that advocates for a strong wall between government and religion. She noted that some Republicans including U.S. Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Georgia, have embraced the title of Christian nationalist in recent years.
Tyler said that Johnson's views are particularly concerning because of his background as both a Southern Baptist and as a constitutional lawyer. Baptists, she noted, have a long history of advocacy for strong church-state separations because of the persecution they faced during the country's founding a stance that she said Johnson has betrayed throughout his legal and political career.
"He has worked actively for these principles that further Christian nationalism," Tyler said. "I am also a Baptist, and to see someone who is a Baptist really reject foundational concepts of religious freedom for all concepts which are really core to what it means to be a Baptist is also very disheartening."
Johnson played a central role in attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election by crafting a legal brief that was signed by more than 100 U.S. House Republicans in support of a lawsuit filed by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton that sought to have election results thrown out in four swing states by President Joe Biden.
At the same time that he was aiding the legal charge to overturn the 2020 election, Johnson was also cultivating closer ties to figures in the New Apolostolic Reformation, a fast-growing movement of ultraconservative preachers, televangelists, self-described prophets and faith healers who abide by the "Seven Mountains Mandate" a Christian nationalist-adjacent theology that says Christians must fulfill a divine mandate to rule over all seven aspects of society (family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government) in order to usher in the "end times."
Driven by that theology, New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/11/03/david-barton-mike-johnson-texas-church-state-christianity/

should have lead with Texas tribune and I could have not wasted my time..
I thought declaring Christianity to be the official state religion would be a problem

"arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation."


Here's what the state constitutions - written by pretty much the same people who wrote the federal constitution- had to say about that:

https://csac.history.wisc.edu/document-collections/religion-and-the-ratification/religious-test-clause/religious-tests-and-oaths-in-state-constitutions-1776-1784/



4th and Inches
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx said:

4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

sorry for the length, but I didn't want to edit. It explores Bartons influence on Speaker Johnson.
I move the last paragraph to first because some folks are saying God ordained violence on Jan 6
New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.

TEXAS ACTIVIST DAVID BARTON WANTS TO END SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. HE HAS THE EAR OF THE NEW U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER.

BARTON HAS BEEN A STAPLE OF TEXAS' CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT, OFFERING CRUCIAL SUPPORT TO POLITICIANS AND FREQUENTLY BEING CITED OR CALLED ON TO TESTIFY IN FAVOR OF BILLS THAT CRITICS SAY WOULD ERODE CHURCH-STATE SEPARATIONS.

For nearly four decades, Texas activist David Barton has barnstormed statehouses and pulpits across the nation, arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation.
Now, he's closer to power than perhaps ever before.

One day after little-known Republican U.S. Rep. Mike Johnson of Louisiana was elected as the new House speaker last week, Barton said on a podcast that he was already discussing staffing with Johnson, his longtime ally in deeply conservative, Christian causes.
"We have some tools at our disposal now (that) we haven't had in a long time," Barton added.
Johnson recently spoke at an event hosted by Barton's nonprofit, WallBuilders; he's praised Barton and his "profound influence on me, and my work, and my life and everything I do"; and, before his career as a lawmaker, Johnson worked for Alliance Defending Freedom a legal advocacy group that has helped infuse more Christianity into public schools and government, a key goal of Barton's movement.
Barton, who lives in Aledo, has been a staple of Texas' own Christian conservative movement, offering crucial public support to politicians and frequently being cited or called on to testify in favor of bills that critics say would erode church-state separations including in front of the Texas Legislature this year.
Johnson's election and his proximity to Barton is a massive victory for a growing Christian nationalist movement that claims the United States' foundation was ordained by God, and therefore its laws and institutions should favor their brand of Christianity.
"Johnson's rise means that Barton and his fellow Christian nationalists now have unprecedented access to the levers of power on the national stage, paralleling the access they already have here in Texas and some other states," said David Brockman, a non-resident scholar in religion and public policy at Rice University's Baker Institute for Public Policy.

Barton and Johnson did not respond to requests for comment this week
Barton has spent nearly all of his life in North Texas, save for the few years he spent at Oral Roberts University, an evangelical school in Tulsa, Oklahoma. After graduating with a degree in religious education, he returned to Aledo and worked as a math and science teacher, basketball coach and, later, principal at a K-12 school that grew out of his parent's Bible study group, according to a 2006 Texas Monthly profile of him.
In 1988, Barton founded his group, WallBuilders, to "exert a direct and positive influence in government, education, and the family by educating the nation concerning the Godly foundation of our country" and "providing information to federal, state, and local officials as they develop public policies which reflect Biblical values," according to the group's website.
Since then, Barton has been arguably the most influential figure in a growing movement to undermine the establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment, which states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."
Barton claims the clause has been misunderstood. He argues that most of the Founding Fathers were "orthodox, evangelical" Christians, and that it would thus be more accurate to read the establishment clause's use of the word "religion" as a stand-in for "Christian denomination."
"We would best understand the actual context of the First Amendment by saying, 'Congress shall make no law establishing one Christian denomination as the national denomination,'" he has said.
Barton also argues that the country's founders "never intended the First Amendment to become a vehicle to promote a pluralism of other religions."
In his mind, the wall separating church and state was only meant to extend one way, protecting religion specifically, Christianity from the government, but not vice versa.
"'Separation of church and state' currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant," his group's website claims.
And he argues that most of what he considers society's ills from school shootings, low standardized test scores and drug use to divorce, crime and LGBTQ+ people are the natural consequences of abandoning the Judeo-Christian virtues, as articulated in his form of Christianity, that he says are the bedrock of the nation's founding. Sometimes, he's drawn fire for those views such as when he said the lack of cure for AIDS was God's vengeance for homosexuality or when he compared the Third Reich's "evils'' to the "homosexual lifestyle" in 2017.
Barton, a self-styled "amateur historian," has for years been debunked and ridiculed by actual historians and scholars, who note that he has no formal training and that his work is filled with selective quotes, mischaracterizations and inaccuracies critiques that Barton has claimed are mere attacks on his faith. He has been accused of whitewashing the Founding Fathers particularly, their slave owning to fit his narrative of a God-ordained nation. He has acknowledged using unconfirmed quotes from historical figures. And Barton's 2012 book, "The Jefferson Lies," was so widely panned by Christian academics that it prompted a separate book, "Getting Jefferson Right," to debunk all of his inaccuracies, and was later pulled by its Christian publisher because "the basic truths just were not there."
Despite that, Barton has remained a fixture in conservative Christian circles and Republican Party politics. He served as vice chair of the Republican Party of Texas from 1997 to 2006 and, in 2004, was tapped for clergy outreach by President George W. Bush's reelection campaign. In 2010, his fellow Texan and prominent conservative personality Glenn Beck praised him as "the most important man in America right now." Barton was an early and important endorser of Sen. Ted Cruz's unexpected first win in 2012. And in 2016, Barton ran one of multiple super PACs that were crucial to Cruz's reelection.
"Having David Barton running the super PAC gives it a lot of validity for evangelicals and pastors," Mike Gonzalez, the South Carolina evangelical chair for the Cruz for President campaign, told the Daily Beast at the time.
In Texas, Barton has become increasingly instrumental among GOP politicians. He and WallBuilders currently work closely with Rick Green, a former state representative and current leader of Patriot Academy, a Dripping Springs-based group that trains young adults, churches and others how to "influence government policy with a Biblical worldview" and borrows heavily from Barton's teachings.
Barton has also railed against the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits tax-exempt groups, including churches, from direct political advocacy. And he is frequently called on to support laws that would infuse more Christianity into public life including in public schools. In May, he and his son, Timothy Barton, testified in favor of a bill which later failed that would have required all Texas public school classrooms to display the Ten Commandments.
During the hearing, Barton's work was praised as "great" by Sen. Donna Campbell, R-New Braunfels. His theories were echoed by Sen. Mayes Middleton, R-Galveston, who said that church-state separation is "not a real doctrine." And the bill's sponsor, Sen. Phil King, R-Weatherford, extolled Barton and his son as "esteemed witnesses."
Other prominent Texas Republicans have similarly echoed Barton's views, including Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, who has called the United States "a Christian nation" and said "there is no separation of church and state. It was not in the Constitution."
"We were a nation founded upon not the words of our founders, but the words of God because he wrote the Constitution," Patrick said last year.
The mainstreaming of Barton's views has corresponded with a series of U.S. Supreme Court decisions that have allowed for a greater infusion of Christianity into the public sphere, and a burgeoning Christian nationalist movement on the right that was turbocharged by former President Donald Trump and his promise to white evangelicals that "Christianity will have power" should they support him.
February polling from the Public Religion Research Institute found that more than half of Republicans adhere to or sympathize with foundational aspects of Christian nationalism, including beliefs that the U.S. should be a strictly Christian nation. Of those respondents, PRRI found, roughly half supported having an authoritarian leader who maintains Christian dominance in society. Experts have also found strong correlations between Christian nationalist beliefs and opposition to immigration, racial justice and religious diversity.
Johnson's election to House Speaker shows how normalized such beliefs have become, said Amanda Tyler, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, a Washington, D.C.-based group that advocates for a strong wall between government and religion. She noted that some Republicans including U.S. Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Georgia, have embraced the title of Christian nationalist in recent years.
Tyler said that Johnson's views are particularly concerning because of his background as both a Southern Baptist and as a constitutional lawyer. Baptists, she noted, have a long history of advocacy for strong church-state separations because of the persecution they faced during the country's founding a stance that she said Johnson has betrayed throughout his legal and political career.
"He has worked actively for these principles that further Christian nationalism," Tyler said. "I am also a Baptist, and to see someone who is a Baptist really reject foundational concepts of religious freedom for all concepts which are really core to what it means to be a Baptist is also very disheartening."
Johnson played a central role in attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election by crafting a legal brief that was signed by more than 100 U.S. House Republicans in support of a lawsuit filed by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton that sought to have election results thrown out in four swing states by President Joe Biden.
At the same time that he was aiding the legal charge to overturn the 2020 election, Johnson was also cultivating closer ties to figures in the New Apolostolic Reformation, a fast-growing movement of ultraconservative preachers, televangelists, self-described prophets and faith healers who abide by the "Seven Mountains Mandate" a Christian nationalist-adjacent theology that says Christians must fulfill a divine mandate to rule over all seven aspects of society (family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government) in order to usher in the "end times."
Driven by that theology, New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/11/03/david-barton-mike-johnson-texas-church-state-christianity/

should have lead with Texas tribune and I could have not wasted my time..
I thought declaring Christianity to be the official state religion would be a problem

"arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation."
as a nation founded on christian principles, its hard for some people to understand that operating on a principled foundation is nothing like being a religious state. The united states of America has operated on christian principles for 200+ years. It is socially ingrained

Any that dont understand the difference are ignorant and sheltered from the real world.

Just think about how you felt the first time somebody in your family changes a tradition, it feels wrong. That is what people are fighting against, changes to the social construct as a whole.

“The Internet is just a world passing around notes in a classroom.”

Jon Stewart
Osodecentx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

sorry for the length, but I didn't want to edit. It explores Bartons influence on Speaker Johnson.
I move the last paragraph to first because some folks are saying God ordained violence on Jan 6
New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.

TEXAS ACTIVIST DAVID BARTON WANTS TO END SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. HE HAS THE EAR OF THE NEW U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER.

BARTON HAS BEEN A STAPLE OF TEXAS' CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT, OFFERING CRUCIAL SUPPORT TO POLITICIANS AND FREQUENTLY BEING CITED OR CALLED ON TO TESTIFY IN FAVOR OF BILLS THAT CRITICS SAY WOULD ERODE CHURCH-STATE SEPARATIONS.

For nearly four decades, Texas activist David Barton has barnstormed statehouses and pulpits across the nation, arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation.
Now, he's closer to power than perhaps ever before.

One day after little-known Republican U.S. Rep. Mike Johnson of Louisiana was elected as the new House speaker last week, Barton said on a podcast that he was already discussing staffing with Johnson, his longtime ally in deeply conservative, Christian causes.
"We have some tools at our disposal now (that) we haven't had in a long time," Barton added.
Johnson recently spoke at an event hosted by Barton's nonprofit, WallBuilders; he's praised Barton and his "profound influence on me, and my work, and my life and everything I do"; and, before his career as a lawmaker, Johnson worked for Alliance Defending Freedom a legal advocacy group that has helped infuse more Christianity into public schools and government, a key goal of Barton's movement.
Barton, who lives in Aledo, has been a staple of Texas' own Christian conservative movement, offering crucial public support to politicians and frequently being cited or called on to testify in favor of bills that critics say would erode church-state separations including in front of the Texas Legislature this year.
Johnson's election and his proximity to Barton is a massive victory for a growing Christian nationalist movement that claims the United States' foundation was ordained by God, and therefore its laws and institutions should favor their brand of Christianity.
"Johnson's rise means that Barton and his fellow Christian nationalists now have unprecedented access to the levers of power on the national stage, paralleling the access they already have here in Texas and some other states," said David Brockman, a non-resident scholar in religion and public policy at Rice University's Baker Institute for Public Policy.

Barton and Johnson did not respond to requests for comment this week
Barton has spent nearly all of his life in North Texas, save for the few years he spent at Oral Roberts University, an evangelical school in Tulsa, Oklahoma. After graduating with a degree in religious education, he returned to Aledo and worked as a math and science teacher, basketball coach and, later, principal at a K-12 school that grew out of his parent's Bible study group, according to a 2006 Texas Monthly profile of him.
In 1988, Barton founded his group, WallBuilders, to "exert a direct and positive influence in government, education, and the family by educating the nation concerning the Godly foundation of our country" and "providing information to federal, state, and local officials as they develop public policies which reflect Biblical values," according to the group's website.
Since then, Barton has been arguably the most influential figure in a growing movement to undermine the establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment, which states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."
Barton claims the clause has been misunderstood. He argues that most of the Founding Fathers were "orthodox, evangelical" Christians, and that it would thus be more accurate to read the establishment clause's use of the word "religion" as a stand-in for "Christian denomination."
"We would best understand the actual context of the First Amendment by saying, 'Congress shall make no law establishing one Christian denomination as the national denomination,'" he has said.
Barton also argues that the country's founders "never intended the First Amendment to become a vehicle to promote a pluralism of other religions."
In his mind, the wall separating church and state was only meant to extend one way, protecting religion specifically, Christianity from the government, but not vice versa.
"'Separation of church and state' currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant," his group's website claims.
And he argues that most of what he considers society's ills from school shootings, low standardized test scores and drug use to divorce, crime and LGBTQ+ people are the natural consequences of abandoning the Judeo-Christian virtues, as articulated in his form of Christianity, that he says are the bedrock of the nation's founding. Sometimes, he's drawn fire for those views such as when he said the lack of cure for AIDS was God's vengeance for homosexuality or when he compared the Third Reich's "evils'' to the "homosexual lifestyle" in 2017.
Barton, a self-styled "amateur historian," has for years been debunked and ridiculed by actual historians and scholars, who note that he has no formal training and that his work is filled with selective quotes, mischaracterizations and inaccuracies critiques that Barton has claimed are mere attacks on his faith. He has been accused of whitewashing the Founding Fathers particularly, their slave owning to fit his narrative of a God-ordained nation. He has acknowledged using unconfirmed quotes from historical figures. And Barton's 2012 book, "The Jefferson Lies," was so widely panned by Christian academics that it prompted a separate book, "Getting Jefferson Right," to debunk all of his inaccuracies, and was later pulled by its Christian publisher because "the basic truths just were not there."
Despite that, Barton has remained a fixture in conservative Christian circles and Republican Party politics. He served as vice chair of the Republican Party of Texas from 1997 to 2006 and, in 2004, was tapped for clergy outreach by President George W. Bush's reelection campaign. In 2010, his fellow Texan and prominent conservative personality Glenn Beck praised him as "the most important man in America right now." Barton was an early and important endorser of Sen. Ted Cruz's unexpected first win in 2012. And in 2016, Barton ran one of multiple super PACs that were crucial to Cruz's reelection.
"Having David Barton running the super PAC gives it a lot of validity for evangelicals and pastors," Mike Gonzalez, the South Carolina evangelical chair for the Cruz for President campaign, told the Daily Beast at the time.
In Texas, Barton has become increasingly instrumental among GOP politicians. He and WallBuilders currently work closely with Rick Green, a former state representative and current leader of Patriot Academy, a Dripping Springs-based group that trains young adults, churches and others how to "influence government policy with a Biblical worldview" and borrows heavily from Barton's teachings.
Barton has also railed against the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits tax-exempt groups, including churches, from direct political advocacy. And he is frequently called on to support laws that would infuse more Christianity into public life including in public schools. In May, he and his son, Timothy Barton, testified in favor of a bill which later failed that would have required all Texas public school classrooms to display the Ten Commandments.
During the hearing, Barton's work was praised as "great" by Sen. Donna Campbell, R-New Braunfels. His theories were echoed by Sen. Mayes Middleton, R-Galveston, who said that church-state separation is "not a real doctrine." And the bill's sponsor, Sen. Phil King, R-Weatherford, extolled Barton and his son as "esteemed witnesses."
Other prominent Texas Republicans have similarly echoed Barton's views, including Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, who has called the United States "a Christian nation" and said "there is no separation of church and state. It was not in the Constitution."
"We were a nation founded upon not the words of our founders, but the words of God because he wrote the Constitution," Patrick said last year.
The mainstreaming of Barton's views has corresponded with a series of U.S. Supreme Court decisions that have allowed for a greater infusion of Christianity into the public sphere, and a burgeoning Christian nationalist movement on the right that was turbocharged by former President Donald Trump and his promise to white evangelicals that "Christianity will have power" should they support him.
February polling from the Public Religion Research Institute found that more than half of Republicans adhere to or sympathize with foundational aspects of Christian nationalism, including beliefs that the U.S. should be a strictly Christian nation. Of those respondents, PRRI found, roughly half supported having an authoritarian leader who maintains Christian dominance in society. Experts have also found strong correlations between Christian nationalist beliefs and opposition to immigration, racial justice and religious diversity.
Johnson's election to House Speaker shows how normalized such beliefs have become, said Amanda Tyler, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, a Washington, D.C.-based group that advocates for a strong wall between government and religion. She noted that some Republicans including U.S. Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Georgia, have embraced the title of Christian nationalist in recent years.
Tyler said that Johnson's views are particularly concerning because of his background as both a Southern Baptist and as a constitutional lawyer. Baptists, she noted, have a long history of advocacy for strong church-state separations because of the persecution they faced during the country's founding a stance that she said Johnson has betrayed throughout his legal and political career.
"He has worked actively for these principles that further Christian nationalism," Tyler said. "I am also a Baptist, and to see someone who is a Baptist really reject foundational concepts of religious freedom for all concepts which are really core to what it means to be a Baptist is also very disheartening."
Johnson played a central role in attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election by crafting a legal brief that was signed by more than 100 U.S. House Republicans in support of a lawsuit filed by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton that sought to have election results thrown out in four swing states by President Joe Biden.
At the same time that he was aiding the legal charge to overturn the 2020 election, Johnson was also cultivating closer ties to figures in the New Apolostolic Reformation, a fast-growing movement of ultraconservative preachers, televangelists, self-described prophets and faith healers who abide by the "Seven Mountains Mandate" a Christian nationalist-adjacent theology that says Christians must fulfill a divine mandate to rule over all seven aspects of society (family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government) in order to usher in the "end times."
Driven by that theology, New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/11/03/david-barton-mike-johnson-texas-church-state-christianity/

should have lead with Texas tribune and I could have not wasted my time..
I thought declaring Christianity to be the official state religion would be a problem

"arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation."
as a nation founded on christian principles, its hard for some people to understand that operating on a principled foundation is nothing like being a religious state. The united states of America has operated on christian principles for 200+ years. It is socially ingrained

Any that dont understand the difference are ignorant and sheltered from the real world.

Just think about how you felt the first time somebody in your family changes a tradition, it feels wrong. That is what people are fighting against, changes to the social construct as a whole.

This is different from Christian principles. It's "an authoritarian leader who maintains Christian dominance"

including beliefs that the U.S. should be a strictly Christian nation. Of those respondents, PRRI found, roughly half supported having an authoritarian leader who maintains Christian dominance in society
4th and Inches
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx said:

4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

sorry for the length, but I didn't want to edit. It explores Bartons influence on Speaker Johnson.
I move the last paragraph to first because some folks are saying God ordained violence on Jan 6
New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.

TEXAS ACTIVIST DAVID BARTON WANTS TO END SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. HE HAS THE EAR OF THE NEW U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER.

BARTON HAS BEEN A STAPLE OF TEXAS' CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT, OFFERING CRUCIAL SUPPORT TO POLITICIANS AND FREQUENTLY BEING CITED OR CALLED ON TO TESTIFY IN FAVOR OF BILLS THAT CRITICS SAY WOULD ERODE CHURCH-STATE SEPARATIONS.

For nearly four decades, Texas activist David Barton has barnstormed statehouses and pulpits across the nation, arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation.
Now, he's closer to power than perhaps ever before.

One day after little-known Republican U.S. Rep. Mike Johnson of Louisiana was elected as the new House speaker last week, Barton said on a podcast that he was already discussing staffing with Johnson, his longtime ally in deeply conservative, Christian causes.
"We have some tools at our disposal now (that) we haven't had in a long time," Barton added.
Johnson recently spoke at an event hosted by Barton's nonprofit, WallBuilders; he's praised Barton and his "profound influence on me, and my work, and my life and everything I do"; and, before his career as a lawmaker, Johnson worked for Alliance Defending Freedom a legal advocacy group that has helped infuse more Christianity into public schools and government, a key goal of Barton's movement.
Barton, who lives in Aledo, has been a staple of Texas' own Christian conservative movement, offering crucial public support to politicians and frequently being cited or called on to testify in favor of bills that critics say would erode church-state separations including in front of the Texas Legislature this year.
Johnson's election and his proximity to Barton is a massive victory for a growing Christian nationalist movement that claims the United States' foundation was ordained by God, and therefore its laws and institutions should favor their brand of Christianity.
"Johnson's rise means that Barton and his fellow Christian nationalists now have unprecedented access to the levers of power on the national stage, paralleling the access they already have here in Texas and some other states," said David Brockman, a non-resident scholar in religion and public policy at Rice University's Baker Institute for Public Policy.

Barton and Johnson did not respond to requests for comment this week
Barton has spent nearly all of his life in North Texas, save for the few years he spent at Oral Roberts University, an evangelical school in Tulsa, Oklahoma. After graduating with a degree in religious education, he returned to Aledo and worked as a math and science teacher, basketball coach and, later, principal at a K-12 school that grew out of his parent's Bible study group, according to a 2006 Texas Monthly profile of him.
In 1988, Barton founded his group, WallBuilders, to "exert a direct and positive influence in government, education, and the family by educating the nation concerning the Godly foundation of our country" and "providing information to federal, state, and local officials as they develop public policies which reflect Biblical values," according to the group's website.
Since then, Barton has been arguably the most influential figure in a growing movement to undermine the establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment, which states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."
Barton claims the clause has been misunderstood. He argues that most of the Founding Fathers were "orthodox, evangelical" Christians, and that it would thus be more accurate to read the establishment clause's use of the word "religion" as a stand-in for "Christian denomination."
"We would best understand the actual context of the First Amendment by saying, 'Congress shall make no law establishing one Christian denomination as the national denomination,'" he has said.
Barton also argues that the country's founders "never intended the First Amendment to become a vehicle to promote a pluralism of other religions."
In his mind, the wall separating church and state was only meant to extend one way, protecting religion specifically, Christianity from the government, but not vice versa.
"'Separation of church and state' currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant," his group's website claims.
And he argues that most of what he considers society's ills from school shootings, low standardized test scores and drug use to divorce, crime and LGBTQ+ people are the natural consequences of abandoning the Judeo-Christian virtues, as articulated in his form of Christianity, that he says are the bedrock of the nation's founding. Sometimes, he's drawn fire for those views such as when he said the lack of cure for AIDS was God's vengeance for homosexuality or when he compared the Third Reich's "evils'' to the "homosexual lifestyle" in 2017.
Barton, a self-styled "amateur historian," has for years been debunked and ridiculed by actual historians and scholars, who note that he has no formal training and that his work is filled with selective quotes, mischaracterizations and inaccuracies critiques that Barton has claimed are mere attacks on his faith. He has been accused of whitewashing the Founding Fathers particularly, their slave owning to fit his narrative of a God-ordained nation. He has acknowledged using unconfirmed quotes from historical figures. And Barton's 2012 book, "The Jefferson Lies," was so widely panned by Christian academics that it prompted a separate book, "Getting Jefferson Right," to debunk all of his inaccuracies, and was later pulled by its Christian publisher because "the basic truths just were not there."
Despite that, Barton has remained a fixture in conservative Christian circles and Republican Party politics. He served as vice chair of the Republican Party of Texas from 1997 to 2006 and, in 2004, was tapped for clergy outreach by President George W. Bush's reelection campaign. In 2010, his fellow Texan and prominent conservative personality Glenn Beck praised him as "the most important man in America right now." Barton was an early and important endorser of Sen. Ted Cruz's unexpected first win in 2012. And in 2016, Barton ran one of multiple super PACs that were crucial to Cruz's reelection.
"Having David Barton running the super PAC gives it a lot of validity for evangelicals and pastors," Mike Gonzalez, the South Carolina evangelical chair for the Cruz for President campaign, told the Daily Beast at the time.
In Texas, Barton has become increasingly instrumental among GOP politicians. He and WallBuilders currently work closely with Rick Green, a former state representative and current leader of Patriot Academy, a Dripping Springs-based group that trains young adults, churches and others how to "influence government policy with a Biblical worldview" and borrows heavily from Barton's teachings.
Barton has also railed against the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits tax-exempt groups, including churches, from direct political advocacy. And he is frequently called on to support laws that would infuse more Christianity into public life including in public schools. In May, he and his son, Timothy Barton, testified in favor of a bill which later failed that would have required all Texas public school classrooms to display the Ten Commandments.
During the hearing, Barton's work was praised as "great" by Sen. Donna Campbell, R-New Braunfels. His theories were echoed by Sen. Mayes Middleton, R-Galveston, who said that church-state separation is "not a real doctrine." And the bill's sponsor, Sen. Phil King, R-Weatherford, extolled Barton and his son as "esteemed witnesses."
Other prominent Texas Republicans have similarly echoed Barton's views, including Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, who has called the United States "a Christian nation" and said "there is no separation of church and state. It was not in the Constitution."
"We were a nation founded upon not the words of our founders, but the words of God because he wrote the Constitution," Patrick said last year.
The mainstreaming of Barton's views has corresponded with a series of U.S. Supreme Court decisions that have allowed for a greater infusion of Christianity into the public sphere, and a burgeoning Christian nationalist movement on the right that was turbocharged by former President Donald Trump and his promise to white evangelicals that "Christianity will have power" should they support him.
February polling from the Public Religion Research Institute found that more than half of Republicans adhere to or sympathize with foundational aspects of Christian nationalism, including beliefs that the U.S. should be a strictly Christian nation. Of those respondents, PRRI found, roughly half supported having an authoritarian leader who maintains Christian dominance in society. Experts have also found strong correlations between Christian nationalist beliefs and opposition to immigration, racial justice and religious diversity.
Johnson's election to House Speaker shows how normalized such beliefs have become, said Amanda Tyler, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, a Washington, D.C.-based group that advocates for a strong wall between government and religion. She noted that some Republicans including U.S. Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Georgia, have embraced the title of Christian nationalist in recent years.
Tyler said that Johnson's views are particularly concerning because of his background as both a Southern Baptist and as a constitutional lawyer. Baptists, she noted, have a long history of advocacy for strong church-state separations because of the persecution they faced during the country's founding a stance that she said Johnson has betrayed throughout his legal and political career.
"He has worked actively for these principles that further Christian nationalism," Tyler said. "I am also a Baptist, and to see someone who is a Baptist really reject foundational concepts of religious freedom for all concepts which are really core to what it means to be a Baptist is also very disheartening."
Johnson played a central role in attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election by crafting a legal brief that was signed by more than 100 U.S. House Republicans in support of a lawsuit filed by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton that sought to have election results thrown out in four swing states by President Joe Biden.
At the same time that he was aiding the legal charge to overturn the 2020 election, Johnson was also cultivating closer ties to figures in the New Apolostolic Reformation, a fast-growing movement of ultraconservative preachers, televangelists, self-described prophets and faith healers who abide by the "Seven Mountains Mandate" a Christian nationalist-adjacent theology that says Christians must fulfill a divine mandate to rule over all seven aspects of society (family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government) in order to usher in the "end times."
Driven by that theology, New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/11/03/david-barton-mike-johnson-texas-church-state-christianity/

should have lead with Texas tribune and I could have not wasted my time..
I thought declaring Christianity to be the official state religion would be a problem

"arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation."
as a nation founded on christian principles, its hard for some people to understand that operating on a principled foundation is nothing like being a religious state. The united states of America has operated on christian principles for 200+ years. It is socially ingrained

Any that dont understand the difference are ignorant and sheltered from the real world.

Just think about how you felt the first time somebody in your family changes a tradition, it feels wrong. That is what people are fighting against, changes to the social construct as a whole.

This is different from Christian principles. It's "an authoritarian leader who maintains Christian dominance"

including beliefs that the U.S. should be a strictly Christian nation. Of those respondents, PRRI found, roughly half supported having an authoritarian leader who maintains Christian dominance in society
who cares.. 81 million voted for a jeff dunham puppet in 2020..

Nothing that was thought up during their sunday school coffee fellowship will ever come to pass.. they could barely get half to support the idea internally in their echo chamber
“The Internet is just a world passing around notes in a classroom.”

Jon Stewart
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?

KaiBear said:

Amusing how some folks choose to fill their empty hours worrying about the most obscure things.



LOL mostly true. The article is typical liberal spin, the pseudo "religious test" we see so often coming from the left to attempt to discredit and deplatform mainstream conservative views. Barton is echoing an argument Scalia made about "religiousness vs non-religiousnes," which is plainly supportable by plain history of the founding of the country and views of the founders. And Scalia did not invent such views out of whole cloth. They are squarely within legal tradition.

"We are a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being. When the state encourages religious instruction or cooperates with religious authorities by adjusting the schedule of public events to sectarian needs, it follows the best of our traditions. For it then respects the religious nature of our people and accommodates the public service to their spiritual needs. The government must be neutral when it comes to competition between sects. It may not coerce anyone to attend church, to observe a religious holiday, or to take religious instruction. But it can close its doors or suspend its operations as to those who want to repair to their religious sanctuary for worship or instruction."
--Justice William O. Douglas

Douglas was hardly a rock-ribbed conservative justice, and Barton is not proposing anything remotely resembling the shockingly intolerant social justice nonsense we see on parade in our streets.

Long Scalia article (from which Douglas quote was lifted) on the subject at First Things is at link:
https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2019/04/a-nation-under-god

If the left can interpret the establishment clause so expansively that its meaning is effectively inverted, the right can certainly propose to restore proper balance. That is what democratic process in a free society with 1st Amendment protections looks like. Oso just doesn't like it because his definition of "conservative" means that Republicans must strictly adhere to a position of stasis on all things, while the left can use hammer and tongs to move things anywhere they want. Pfft. That guarantees we always move left, slowly. Far better to allow the right to push as hard as the left on anything, anytime, anywhere. That's how we keep things in balance to include righting the wrongs of the past.





Frank Galvin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
What Barton and others propose is a far cry from what Douglas described.
Osodecentx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:


KaiBear said:

Amusing how some folks choose to fill their empty hours worrying about the most obscure things.



LOL mostly true. The article is typical liberal spin, the pseudo "religious test" we see so often coming from the left to attempt to discredit and deplatform mainstream conservative views. Barton is echoing an argument Scalia made about "religiousness vs non-religiousnes," which is plainly supportable by plain history of the founding of the country and views of the founders. And Scalia did not invent such views out of whole cloth. They are squarely within legal tradition.

"We are a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being. When the state encourages religious instruction or cooperates with religious authorities by adjusting the schedule of public events to sectarian needs, it follows the best of our traditions. For it then respects the religious nature of our people and accommodates the public service to their spiritual needs. The government must be neutral when it comes to competition between sects. It may not coerce anyone to attend church, to observe a religious holiday, or to take religious instruction. But it can close its doors or suspend its operations as to those who want to repair to their religious sanctuary for worship or instruction."
--Justice William O. Douglas

Douglas was hardly a rock-ribbed conservative justice, and Barton is not proposing anything remotely resembling the shockingly intolerant social justice nonsense we see on parade in our streets.

Long Scalia article (from which Douglas quote was lifted) on the subject at First Things is at link:
https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2019/04/a-nation-under-god

If the left can interpret the establishment clause so expansively that its meaning is effectively inverted, the right can certainly propose to restore proper balance. That is what democratic process in a free society with 1st Amendment protections looks like. Oso just doesn't like it because his definition of "conservative" means that Republicans must strictly adhere to a position of stasis on all things, while the left can use hammer and tongs to move things anywhere they want. Pfft. That guarantees we always move left, slowly. Far better to allow the right to push as hard as the left on anything, anytime, anywhere. That's how we keep things in balance to include righting the wrongs of the past.

I agree with Scalia, but Scalia did not advocate for Christianity to be the official religion of the US. Barton does
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:


KaiBear said:

Amusing how some folks choose to fill their empty hours worrying about the most obscure things.



LOL mostly true. The article is typical liberal spin, the pseudo "religious test" we see so often coming from the left to attempt to discredit and deplatform mainstream conservative views. Barton is echoing an argument Scalia made about "religiousness vs non-religiousnes," which is plainly supportable by plain history of the founding of the country and views of the founders. And Scalia did not invent such views out of whole cloth. They are squarely within legal tradition.

"We are a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being. When the state encourages religious instruction or cooperates with religious authorities by adjusting the schedule of public events to sectarian needs, it follows the best of our traditions. For it then respects the religious nature of our people and accommodates the public service to their spiritual needs. The government must be neutral when it comes to competition between sects. It may not coerce anyone to attend church, to observe a religious holiday, or to take religious instruction. But it can close its doors or suspend its operations as to those who want to repair to their religious sanctuary for worship or instruction."
--Justice William O. Douglas

Douglas was hardly a rock-ribbed conservative justice, and Barton is not proposing anything remotely resembling the shockingly intolerant social justice nonsense we see on parade in our streets.

Long Scalia article (from which Douglas quote was lifted) on the subject at First Things is at link:
https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2019/04/a-nation-under-god

If the left can interpret the establishment clause so expansively that its meaning is effectively inverted, the right can certainly propose to restore proper balance. That is what democratic process in a free society with 1st Amendment protections looks like. Oso just doesn't like it because his definition of "conservative" means that Republicans must strictly adhere to a position of stasis on all things, while the left can use hammer and tongs to move things anywhere they want. Pfft. That guarantees we always move left, slowly. Far better to allow the right to push as hard as the left on anything, anytime, anywhere. That's how we keep things in balance to include righting the wrongs of the past.

I agree with Scalia, but Scalia did not advocate for Christianity to be the official religion of the US. Barton does
actually, no. he does not. But that's the spin in the article - citing all kinds of reasonable statements to create the impression that he does. The words "Christian Nationalism" is your clue. It's not a thing among Christians. It only exists among the minds of the wild-eyed left who believe the arc of history always bends their way and will do whatever it takes to make sure it does, to include demonizing devoutly religious people (and their views) as unwelcome trespassers in the political realm.

In a free society with democratic process, law will broadly reflect societal views, public opinion, etc.... And in this country they largely do, except where those laws can be somehow construed as reflective of a tenet of Christianity, in which case the left will engage in lawfare to have it overturned. Pro-life positions were/are attacked relentlessly as an undue insertion of religion into state affairs (as though, oddly, only religious people have the capability to value human life). Murray v. Curtlett is instructive. If there's anywhere people should be free to pray, it's on government property. Yet, the Murray ruling has been interpreted so expansively that plain meaning of religious liberty has been turned on its head and now, govt property is the one place it cannot happen. A coach was fired for kneeling in a silent prayer of thanksgiving on a football field after a game. Because it was government property. Had SCOTUS not corrected that, the trend of constraining rules about what/where/when that coach could exercise his 1st amendment rights would have inevitably, over time, moved off school property, into his home, even church...anywhere one of his players might have been. It's just the structure of the ruling...it is designed to curtail rather than expand liberties. Guys like Barton have been key in organizing the political and legal resistance to such. Good for them. Establishment clause has been turned into a cudgel to beat religion back to the church pew and living room sofa. The pendulum needs to swing back toward Barton's position a little bit, and I suspect it will.

it should not matter whether one's political views are rooted in religion or political ideology. One's views are one's views. To argue otherwise.........is to use the establishment clause to accomplish exactly the opposite of its original intention.

Waco1947
How long do you want to ignore this user?
David Barton is not a historian but pretends that he is.
GrowlTowel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
If we can lock up the opposition, anything is possible.
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Redbrickbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx said:

4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

sorry for the length, but I didn't want to edit. It explores Bartons influence on Speaker Johnson.
I move the last paragraph to first because some folks are saying God ordained violence on Jan 6
New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.

TEXAS ACTIVIST DAVID BARTON WANTS TO END SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. HE HAS THE EAR OF THE NEW U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER.

BARTON HAS BEEN A STAPLE OF TEXAS' CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT, OFFERING CRUCIAL SUPPORT TO POLITICIANS AND FREQUENTLY BEING CITED OR CALLED ON TO TESTIFY IN FAVOR OF BILLS THAT CRITICS SAY WOULD ERODE CHURCH-STATE SEPARATIONS.

For nearly four decades, Texas activist David Barton has barnstormed statehouses and pulpits across the nation, arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation.
Now, he's closer to power than perhaps ever before.

One day after little-known Republican U.S. Rep. Mike Johnson of Louisiana was elected as the new House speaker last week, Barton said on a podcast that he was already discussing staffing with Johnson, his longtime ally in deeply conservative, Christian causes.
"We have some tools at our disposal now (that) we haven't had in a long time," Barton added.
Johnson recently spoke at an event hosted by Barton's nonprofit, WallBuilders; he's praised Barton and his "profound influence on me, and my work, and my life and everything I do"; and, before his career as a lawmaker, Johnson worked for Alliance Defending Freedom a legal advocacy group that has helped infuse more Christianity into public schools and government, a key goal of Barton's movement.
Barton, who lives in Aledo, has been a staple of Texas' own Christian conservative movement, offering crucial public support to politicians and frequently being cited or called on to testify in favor of bills that critics say would erode church-state separations including in front of the Texas Legislature this year.
Johnson's election and his proximity to Barton is a massive victory for a growing Christian nationalist movement that claims the United States' foundation was ordained by God, and therefore its laws and institutions should favor their brand of Christianity.
"Johnson's rise means that Barton and his fellow Christian nationalists now have unprecedented access to the levers of power on the national stage, paralleling the access they already have here in Texas and some other states," said David Brockman, a non-resident scholar in religion and public policy at Rice University's Baker Institute for Public Policy.

Barton and Johnson did not respond to requests for comment this week
Barton has spent nearly all of his life in North Texas, save for the few years he spent at Oral Roberts University, an evangelical school in Tulsa, Oklahoma. After graduating with a degree in religious education, he returned to Aledo and worked as a math and science teacher, basketball coach and, later, principal at a K-12 school that grew out of his parent's Bible study group, according to a 2006 Texas Monthly profile of him.
In 1988, Barton founded his group, WallBuilders, to "exert a direct and positive influence in government, education, and the family by educating the nation concerning the Godly foundation of our country" and "providing information to federal, state, and local officials as they develop public policies which reflect Biblical values," according to the group's website.
Since then, Barton has been arguably the most influential figure in a growing movement to undermine the establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment, which states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."
Barton claims the clause has been misunderstood. He argues that most of the Founding Fathers were "orthodox, evangelical" Christians, and that it would thus be more accurate to read the establishment clause's use of the word "religion" as a stand-in for "Christian denomination."
"We would best understand the actual context of the First Amendment by saying, 'Congress shall make no law establishing one Christian denomination as the national denomination,'" he has said.
Barton also argues that the country's founders "never intended the First Amendment to become a vehicle to promote a pluralism of other religions."
In his mind, the wall separating church and state was only meant to extend one way, protecting religion specifically, Christianity from the government, but not vice versa.
"'Separation of church and state' currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant," his group's website claims.
And he argues that most of what he considers society's ills from school shootings, low standardized test scores and drug use to divorce, crime and LGBTQ+ people are the natural consequences of abandoning the Judeo-Christian virtues, as articulated in his form of Christianity, that he says are the bedrock of the nation's founding. Sometimes, he's drawn fire for those views such as when he said the lack of cure for AIDS was God's vengeance for homosexuality or when he compared the Third Reich's "evils'' to the "homosexual lifestyle" in 2017.
Barton, a self-styled "amateur historian," has for years been debunked and ridiculed by actual historians and scholars, who note that he has no formal training and that his work is filled with selective quotes, mischaracterizations and inaccuracies critiques that Barton has claimed are mere attacks on his faith. He has been accused of whitewashing the Founding Fathers particularly, their slave owning to fit his narrative of a God-ordained nation. He has acknowledged using unconfirmed quotes from historical figures. And Barton's 2012 book, "The Jefferson Lies," was so widely panned by Christian academics that it prompted a separate book, "Getting Jefferson Right," to debunk all of his inaccuracies, and was later pulled by its Christian publisher because "the basic truths just were not there."
Despite that, Barton has remained a fixture in conservative Christian circles and Republican Party politics. He served as vice chair of the Republican Party of Texas from 1997 to 2006 and, in 2004, was tapped for clergy outreach by President George W. Bush's reelection campaign. In 2010, his fellow Texan and prominent conservative personality Glenn Beck praised him as "the most important man in America right now." Barton was an early and important endorser of Sen. Ted Cruz's unexpected first win in 2012. And in 2016, Barton ran one of multiple super PACs that were crucial to Cruz's reelection.
"Having David Barton running the super PAC gives it a lot of validity for evangelicals and pastors," Mike Gonzalez, the South Carolina evangelical chair for the Cruz for President campaign, told the Daily Beast at the time.
In Texas, Barton has become increasingly instrumental among GOP politicians. He and WallBuilders currently work closely with Rick Green, a former state representative and current leader of Patriot Academy, a Dripping Springs-based group that trains young adults, churches and others how to "influence government policy with a Biblical worldview" and borrows heavily from Barton's teachings.
Barton has also railed against the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits tax-exempt groups, including churches, from direct political advocacy. And he is frequently called on to support laws that would infuse more Christianity into public life including in public schools. In May, he and his son, Timothy Barton, testified in favor of a bill which later failed that would have required all Texas public school classrooms to display the Ten Commandments.
During the hearing, Barton's work was praised as "great" by Sen. Donna Campbell, R-New Braunfels. His theories were echoed by Sen. Mayes Middleton, R-Galveston, who said that church-state separation is "not a real doctrine." And the bill's sponsor, Sen. Phil King, R-Weatherford, extolled Barton and his son as "esteemed witnesses."
Other prominent Texas Republicans have similarly echoed Barton's views, including Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, who has called the United States "a Christian nation" and said "there is no separation of church and state. It was not in the Constitution."
"We were a nation founded upon not the words of our founders, but the words of God because he wrote the Constitution," Patrick said last year.
The mainstreaming of Barton's views has corresponded with a series of U.S. Supreme Court decisions that have allowed for a greater infusion of Christianity into the public sphere, and a burgeoning Christian nationalist movement on the right that was turbocharged by former President Donald Trump and his promise to white evangelicals that "Christianity will have power" should they support him.
February polling from the Public Religion Research Institute found that more than half of Republicans adhere to or sympathize with foundational aspects of Christian nationalism, including beliefs that the U.S. should be a strictly Christian nation. Of those respondents, PRRI found, roughly half supported having an authoritarian leader who maintains Christian dominance in society. Experts have also found strong correlations between Christian nationalist beliefs and opposition to immigration, racial justice and religious diversity.
Johnson's election to House Speaker shows how normalized such beliefs have become, said Amanda Tyler, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, a Washington, D.C.-based group that advocates for a strong wall between government and religion. She noted that some Republicans including U.S. Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Georgia, have embraced the title of Christian nationalist in recent years.
Tyler said that Johnson's views are particularly concerning because of his background as both a Southern Baptist and as a constitutional lawyer. Baptists, she noted, have a long history of advocacy for strong church-state separations because of the persecution they faced during the country's founding a stance that she said Johnson has betrayed throughout his legal and political career.
"He has worked actively for these principles that further Christian nationalism," Tyler said. "I am also a Baptist, and to see someone who is a Baptist really reject foundational concepts of religious freedom for all concepts which are really core to what it means to be a Baptist is also very disheartening."
Johnson played a central role in attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election by crafting a legal brief that was signed by more than 100 U.S. House Republicans in support of a lawsuit filed by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton that sought to have election results thrown out in four swing states by President Joe Biden.
At the same time that he was aiding the legal charge to overturn the 2020 election, Johnson was also cultivating closer ties to figures in the New Apolostolic Reformation, a fast-growing movement of ultraconservative preachers, televangelists, self-described prophets and faith healers who abide by the "Seven Mountains Mandate" a Christian nationalist-adjacent theology that says Christians must fulfill a divine mandate to rule over all seven aspects of society (family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government) in order to usher in the "end times."
Driven by that theology, New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/11/03/david-barton-mike-johnson-texas-church-state-christianity/

should have lead with Texas tribune and I could have not wasted my time..
I thought declaring Christianity to be the official state religion would be a problem

"arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation."

Worrying about Christianity being declared the sole office state religion of the USA (something forbidden by the Constitution) is like worrying about if the USA will create a hereditary King

Both are so outside of the realm of possibility as to be laughable.

I'm not sure what progressive liberals get by even brining this obscurity into the mainstream discussion....no political party has advocated for that or has even floated the idea.
Oldbear83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Oso has more than the usual level of estrogen in his posts today.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Harrison Bergeron
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Typical hysterics.

I support the Separation but oppose these silly hit piece hysterics.
4th and Inches
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Harrison Bergeron said:

Typical hysterics.

I support the Separation but oppose these silly hit piece hysterics.
people dont want separation if church and state in the historic sense.. they want separation of religion from all social settings except the actual trips to a house of worship(which is impossible)
“The Internet is just a world passing around notes in a classroom.”

Jon Stewart
historian
How long do you want to ignore this user?
4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

sorry for the length, but I didn't want to edit. It explores Bartons influence on Speaker Johnson.
I move the last paragraph to first because some folks are saying God ordained violence on Jan 6
New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.

TEXAS ACTIVIST DAVID BARTON WANTS TO END SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. HE HAS THE EAR OF THE NEW U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER.

BARTON HAS BEEN A STAPLE OF TEXAS' CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT, OFFERING CRUCIAL SUPPORT TO POLITICIANS AND FREQUENTLY BEING CITED OR CALLED ON TO TESTIFY IN FAVOR OF BILLS THAT CRITICS SAY WOULD ERODE CHURCH-STATE SEPARATIONS.

For nearly four decades, Texas activist David Barton has barnstormed statehouses and pulpits across the nation, arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation.
Now, he's closer to power than perhaps ever before.

One day after little-known Republican U.S. Rep. Mike Johnson of Louisiana was elected as the new House speaker last week, Barton said on a podcast that he was already discussing staffing with Johnson, his longtime ally in deeply conservative, Christian causes.
"We have some tools at our disposal now (that) we haven't had in a long time," Barton added.
Johnson recently spoke at an event hosted by Barton's nonprofit, WallBuilders; he's praised Barton and his "profound influence on me, and my work, and my life and everything I do"; and, before his career as a lawmaker, Johnson worked for Alliance Defending Freedom a legal advocacy group that has helped infuse more Christianity into public schools and government, a key goal of Barton's movement.
Barton, who lives in Aledo, has been a staple of Texas' own Christian conservative movement, offering crucial public support to politicians and frequently being cited or called on to testify in favor of bills that critics say would erode church-state separations including in front of the Texas Legislature this year.
Johnson's election and his proximity to Barton is a massive victory for a growing Christian nationalist movement that claims the United States' foundation was ordained by God, and therefore its laws and institutions should favor their brand of Christianity.
"Johnson's rise means that Barton and his fellow Christian nationalists now have unprecedented access to the levers of power on the national stage, paralleling the access they already have here in Texas and some other states," said David Brockman, a non-resident scholar in religion and public policy at Rice University's Baker Institute for Public Policy.

Barton and Johnson did not respond to requests for comment this week
Barton has spent nearly all of his life in North Texas, save for the few years he spent at Oral Roberts University, an evangelical school in Tulsa, Oklahoma. After graduating with a degree in religious education, he returned to Aledo and worked as a math and science teacher, basketball coach and, later, principal at a K-12 school that grew out of his parent's Bible study group, according to a 2006 Texas Monthly profile of him.
In 1988, Barton founded his group, WallBuilders, to "exert a direct and positive influence in government, education, and the family by educating the nation concerning the Godly foundation of our country" and "providing information to federal, state, and local officials as they develop public policies which reflect Biblical values," according to the group's website.
Since then, Barton has been arguably the most influential figure in a growing movement to undermine the establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment, which states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."
Barton claims the clause has been misunderstood. He argues that most of the Founding Fathers were "orthodox, evangelical" Christians, and that it would thus be more accurate to read the establishment clause's use of the word "religion" as a stand-in for "Christian denomination."
"We would best understand the actual context of the First Amendment by saying, 'Congress shall make no law establishing one Christian denomination as the national denomination,'" he has said.
Barton also argues that the country's founders "never intended the First Amendment to become a vehicle to promote a pluralism of other religions."
In his mind, the wall separating church and state was only meant to extend one way, protecting religion specifically, Christianity from the government, but not vice versa.
"'Separation of church and state' currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant," his group's website claims.
And he argues that most of what he considers society's ills from school shootings, low standardized test scores and drug use to divorce, crime and LGBTQ+ people are the natural consequences of abandoning the Judeo-Christian virtues, as articulated in his form of Christianity, that he says are the bedrock of the nation's founding. Sometimes, he's drawn fire for those views such as when he said the lack of cure for AIDS was God's vengeance for homosexuality or when he compared the Third Reich's "evils'' to the "homosexual lifestyle" in 2017.
Barton, a self-styled "amateur historian," has for years been debunked and ridiculed by actual historians and scholars, who note that he has no formal training and that his work is filled with selective quotes, mischaracterizations and inaccuracies critiques that Barton has claimed are mere attacks on his faith. He has been accused of whitewashing the Founding Fathers particularly, their slave owning to fit his narrative of a God-ordained nation. He has acknowledged using unconfirmed quotes from historical figures. And Barton's 2012 book, "The Jefferson Lies," was so widely panned by Christian academics that it prompted a separate book, "Getting Jefferson Right," to debunk all of his inaccuracies, and was later pulled by its Christian publisher because "the basic truths just were not there."
Despite that, Barton has remained a fixture in conservative Christian circles and Republican Party politics. He served as vice chair of the Republican Party of Texas from 1997 to 2006 and, in 2004, was tapped for clergy outreach by President George W. Bush's reelection campaign. In 2010, his fellow Texan and prominent conservative personality Glenn Beck praised him as "the most important man in America right now." Barton was an early and important endorser of Sen. Ted Cruz's unexpected first win in 2012. And in 2016, Barton ran one of multiple super PACs that were crucial to Cruz's reelection.
"Having David Barton running the super PAC gives it a lot of validity for evangelicals and pastors," Mike Gonzalez, the South Carolina evangelical chair for the Cruz for President campaign, told the Daily Beast at the time.
In Texas, Barton has become increasingly instrumental among GOP politicians. He and WallBuilders currently work closely with Rick Green, a former state representative and current leader of Patriot Academy, a Dripping Springs-based group that trains young adults, churches and others how to "influence government policy with a Biblical worldview" and borrows heavily from Barton's teachings.
Barton has also railed against the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits tax-exempt groups, including churches, from direct political advocacy. And he is frequently called on to support laws that would infuse more Christianity into public life including in public schools. In May, he and his son, Timothy Barton, testified in favor of a bill which later failed that would have required all Texas public school classrooms to display the Ten Commandments.
During the hearing, Barton's work was praised as "great" by Sen. Donna Campbell, R-New Braunfels. His theories were echoed by Sen. Mayes Middleton, R-Galveston, who said that church-state separation is "not a real doctrine." And the bill's sponsor, Sen. Phil King, R-Weatherford, extolled Barton and his son as "esteemed witnesses."
Other prominent Texas Republicans have similarly echoed Barton's views, including Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, who has called the United States "a Christian nation" and said "there is no separation of church and state. It was not in the Constitution."
"We were a nation founded upon not the words of our founders, but the words of God because he wrote the Constitution," Patrick said last year.
The mainstreaming of Barton's views has corresponded with a series of U.S. Supreme Court decisions that have allowed for a greater infusion of Christianity into the public sphere, and a burgeoning Christian nationalist movement on the right that was turbocharged by former President Donald Trump and his promise to white evangelicals that "Christianity will have power" should they support him.
February polling from the Public Religion Research Institute found that more than half of Republicans adhere to or sympathize with foundational aspects of Christian nationalism, including beliefs that the U.S. should be a strictly Christian nation. Of those respondents, PRRI found, roughly half supported having an authoritarian leader who maintains Christian dominance in society. Experts have also found strong correlations between Christian nationalist beliefs and opposition to immigration, racial justice and religious diversity.
Johnson's election to House Speaker shows how normalized such beliefs have become, said Amanda Tyler, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, a Washington, D.C.-based group that advocates for a strong wall between government and religion. She noted that some Republicans including U.S. Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Georgia, have embraced the title of Christian nationalist in recent years.
Tyler said that Johnson's views are particularly concerning because of his background as both a Southern Baptist and as a constitutional lawyer. Baptists, she noted, have a long history of advocacy for strong church-state separations because of the persecution they faced during the country's founding a stance that she said Johnson has betrayed throughout his legal and political career.
"He has worked actively for these principles that further Christian nationalism," Tyler said. "I am also a Baptist, and to see someone who is a Baptist really reject foundational concepts of religious freedom for all concepts which are really core to what it means to be a Baptist is also very disheartening."
Johnson played a central role in attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election by crafting a legal brief that was signed by more than 100 U.S. House Republicans in support of a lawsuit filed by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton that sought to have election results thrown out in four swing states by President Joe Biden.
At the same time that he was aiding the legal charge to overturn the 2020 election, Johnson was also cultivating closer ties to figures in the New Apolostolic Reformation, a fast-growing movement of ultraconservative preachers, televangelists, self-described prophets and faith healers who abide by the "Seven Mountains Mandate" a Christian nationalist-adjacent theology that says Christians must fulfill a divine mandate to rule over all seven aspects of society (family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government) in order to usher in the "end times."
Driven by that theology, New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/11/03/david-barton-mike-johnson-texas-church-state-christianity/

should have lead with Texas tribune and I could have not wasted my time..
I thought declaring Christianity to be the official state religion would be a problem

"arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation."
as a nation founded on christian principles, its hard for some people to understand that operating on a principled foundation is nothing like being a religious state. The united states of America has operated on christian principles for 200+ years. It is socially ingrained

Any that dont understand the difference are ignorant and sheltered from the real world.

Just think about how you felt the first time somebody in your family changes a tradition, it feels wrong. That is what people are fighting against, changes to the social construct as a whole.

This is different from Christian principles. It's "an authoritarian leader who maintains Christian dominance"

including beliefs that the U.S. should be a strictly Christian nation. Of those respondents, PRRI found, roughly half supported having an authoritarian leader who maintains Christian dominance in society
who cares.. 81 million voted for a jeff dunham puppet in 2020..

Nothing that was thought up during their sunday school coffee fellowship will ever come to pass.. they could barely get half to support the idea internally in their echo chamber


That's an insult to Walter!

I don't believe for a moment that Biden really got 81 million votes. The Dems voter fraud machine was in full gear, especially in several key swing states he "won" by by a tiny margin. There were far too many fraudulent actions by the Dems with plenty of evidence. We saw what happened in Connecticut last week but this time there was justice.
Harrison Bergeron
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think it's hysterical these stories are taking seriously by folks that can't wipe their own ass.
C. Jordan
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx said:

sorry for the length, but I didn't want to edit. It explores Bartons influence on Speaker Johnson.
I move the last paragraph to first because some folks are saying God ordained violence on Jan 6
New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.

TEXAS ACTIVIST DAVID BARTON WANTS TO END SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. HE HAS THE EAR OF THE NEW U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER.

BARTON HAS BEEN A STAPLE OF TEXAS' CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT, OFFERING CRUCIAL SUPPORT TO POLITICIANS AND FREQUENTLY BEING CITED OR CALLED ON TO TESTIFY IN FAVOR OF BILLS THAT CRITICS SAY WOULD ERODE CHURCH-STATE SEPARATIONS.

For nearly four decades, Texas activist David Barton has barnstormed statehouses and pulpits across the nation, arguing that the separation between church and state is a myth and that America should be run as a Christian nation.
Now, he's closer to power than perhaps ever before.

One day after little-known Republican U.S. Rep. Mike Johnson of Louisiana was elected as the new House speaker last week, Barton said on a podcast that he was already discussing staffing with Johnson, his longtime ally in deeply conservative, Christian causes.
"We have some tools at our disposal now (that) we haven't had in a long time," Barton added.
Johnson recently spoke at an event hosted by Barton's nonprofit, WallBuilders; he's praised Barton and his "profound influence on me, and my work, and my life and everything I do"; and, before his career as a lawmaker, Johnson worked for Alliance Defending Freedom a legal advocacy group that has helped infuse more Christianity into public schools and government, a key goal of Barton's movement.
Barton, who lives in Aledo, has been a staple of Texas' own Christian conservative movement, offering crucial public support to politicians and frequently being cited or called on to testify in favor of bills that critics say would erode church-state separations including in front of the Texas Legislature this year.
Johnson's election and his proximity to Barton is a massive victory for a growing Christian nationalist movement that claims the United States' foundation was ordained by God, and therefore its laws and institutions should favor their brand of Christianity.
"Johnson's rise means that Barton and his fellow Christian nationalists now have unprecedented access to the levers of power on the national stage, paralleling the access they already have here in Texas and some other states," said David Brockman, a non-resident scholar in religion and public policy at Rice University's Baker Institute for Public Policy.

Barton and Johnson did not respond to requests for comment this week
Barton has spent nearly all of his life in North Texas, save for the few years he spent at Oral Roberts University, an evangelical school in Tulsa, Oklahoma. After graduating with a degree in religious education, he returned to Aledo and worked as a math and science teacher, basketball coach and, later, principal at a K-12 school that grew out of his parent's Bible study group, according to a 2006 Texas Monthly profile of him.
In 1988, Barton founded his group, WallBuilders, to "exert a direct and positive influence in government, education, and the family by educating the nation concerning the Godly foundation of our country" and "providing information to federal, state, and local officials as they develop public policies which reflect Biblical values," according to the group's website.
Since then, Barton has been arguably the most influential figure in a growing movement to undermine the establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment, which states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."
Barton claims the clause has been misunderstood. He argues that most of the Founding Fathers were "orthodox, evangelical" Christians, and that it would thus be more accurate to read the establishment clause's use of the word "religion" as a stand-in for "Christian denomination."
"We would best understand the actual context of the First Amendment by saying, 'Congress shall make no law establishing one Christian denomination as the national denomination,'" he has said.
Barton also argues that the country's founders "never intended the First Amendment to become a vehicle to promote a pluralism of other religions."
In his mind, the wall separating church and state was only meant to extend one way, protecting religion specifically, Christianity from the government, but not vice versa.
"'Separation of church and state' currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant," his group's website claims.
And he argues that most of what he considers society's ills from school shootings, low standardized test scores and drug use to divorce, crime and LGBTQ+ people are the natural consequences of abandoning the Judeo-Christian virtues, as articulated in his form of Christianity, that he says are the bedrock of the nation's founding. Sometimes, he's drawn fire for those views such as when he said the lack of cure for AIDS was God's vengeance for homosexuality or when he compared the Third Reich's "evils'' to the "homosexual lifestyle" in 2017.
Barton, a self-styled "amateur historian," has for years been debunked and ridiculed by actual historians and scholars, who note that he has no formal training and that his work is filled with selective quotes, mischaracterizations and inaccuracies critiques that Barton has claimed are mere attacks on his faith. He has been accused of whitewashing the Founding Fathers particularly, their slave owning to fit his narrative of a God-ordained nation. He has acknowledged using unconfirmed quotes from historical figures. And Barton's 2012 book, "The Jefferson Lies," was so widely panned by Christian academics that it prompted a separate book, "Getting Jefferson Right," to debunk all of his inaccuracies, and was later pulled by its Christian publisher because "the basic truths just were not there."
Despite that, Barton has remained a fixture in conservative Christian circles and Republican Party politics. He served as vice chair of the Republican Party of Texas from 1997 to 2006 and, in 2004, was tapped for clergy outreach by President George W. Bush's reelection campaign. In 2010, his fellow Texan and prominent conservative personality Glenn Beck praised him as "the most important man in America right now." Barton was an early and important endorser of Sen. Ted Cruz's unexpected first win in 2012. And in 2016, Barton ran one of multiple super PACs that were crucial to Cruz's reelection.
"Having David Barton running the super PAC gives it a lot of validity for evangelicals and pastors," Mike Gonzalez, the South Carolina evangelical chair for the Cruz for President campaign, told the Daily Beast at the time.
In Texas, Barton has become increasingly instrumental among GOP politicians. He and WallBuilders currently work closely with Rick Green, a former state representative and current leader of Patriot Academy, a Dripping Springs-based group that trains young adults, churches and others how to "influence government policy with a Biblical worldview" and borrows heavily from Barton's teachings.
Barton has also railed against the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits tax-exempt groups, including churches, from direct political advocacy. And he is frequently called on to support laws that would infuse more Christianity into public life including in public schools. In May, he and his son, Timothy Barton, testified in favor of a bill which later failed that would have required all Texas public school classrooms to display the Ten Commandments.
During the hearing, Barton's work was praised as "great" by Sen. Donna Campbell, R-New Braunfels. His theories were echoed by Sen. Mayes Middleton, R-Galveston, who said that church-state separation is "not a real doctrine." And the bill's sponsor, Sen. Phil King, R-Weatherford, extolled Barton and his son as "esteemed witnesses."
Other prominent Texas Republicans have similarly echoed Barton's views, including Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, who has called the United States "a Christian nation" and said "there is no separation of church and state. It was not in the Constitution."
"We were a nation founded upon not the words of our founders, but the words of God because he wrote the Constitution," Patrick said last year.
The mainstreaming of Barton's views has corresponded with a series of U.S. Supreme Court decisions that have allowed for a greater infusion of Christianity into the public sphere, and a burgeoning Christian nationalist movement on the right that was turbocharged by former President Donald Trump and his promise to white evangelicals that "Christianity will have power" should they support him.
February polling from the Public Religion Research Institute found that more than half of Republicans adhere to or sympathize with foundational aspects of Christian nationalism, including beliefs that the U.S. should be a strictly Christian nation. Of those respondents, PRRI found, roughly half supported having an authoritarian leader who maintains Christian dominance in society. Experts have also found strong correlations between Christian nationalist beliefs and opposition to immigration, racial justice and religious diversity.
Johnson's election to House Speaker shows how normalized such beliefs have become, said Amanda Tyler, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, a Washington, D.C.-based group that advocates for a strong wall between government and religion. She noted that some Republicans including U.S. Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Georgia, have embraced the title of Christian nationalist in recent years.
Tyler said that Johnson's views are particularly concerning because of his background as both a Southern Baptist and as a constitutional lawyer. Baptists, she noted, have a long history of advocacy for strong church-state separations because of the persecution they faced during the country's founding a stance that she said Johnson has betrayed throughout his legal and political career.
"He has worked actively for these principles that further Christian nationalism," Tyler said. "I am also a Baptist, and to see someone who is a Baptist really reject foundational concepts of religious freedom for all concepts which are really core to what it means to be a Baptist is also very disheartening."
Johnson played a central role in attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election by crafting a legal brief that was signed by more than 100 U.S. House Republicans in support of a lawsuit filed by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton that sought to have election results thrown out in four swing states by President Joe Biden.
At the same time that he was aiding the legal charge to overturn the 2020 election, Johnson was also cultivating closer ties to figures in the New Apolostolic Reformation, a fast-growing movement of ultraconservative preachers, televangelists, self-described prophets and faith healers who abide by the "Seven Mountains Mandate" a Christian nationalist-adjacent theology that says Christians must fulfill a divine mandate to rule over all seven aspects of society (family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government) in order to usher in the "end times."
Driven by that theology, New Apolostic Reformation figures played major roles in the lead up to the Jan. 6, 2021 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, combining Trump's lies about a stolen election with claims that they were engaged in "spiritual warfare" with their political enemies and, thus, extreme and anti-democratic measures were not only necessary, but God-ordained.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/11/03/david-barton-mike-johnson-texas-church-state-christianity/

Barton is a pseudo historian who has outsized influence on many evangelicals.

It's deeply concerning that our new speaker follows his views.
C. Jordan
How long do you want to ignore this user?
JXL said:

David Barton has some interesting books and videos. It's certainly a good idea to check his quotes with the original sources, but he isn't wrong all the time.
He makes selective quotes and quotes founders out of context to form false conclusions.

For example, he quotes the minority of founders who were against religious liberty through church-state separation while not quoting the majority of founders who were for it.

It would be like quoting Mitt Romney on Trump and saying this represents the views of most Republicans.

He does a good job of sounding like he's presenting the truth when he isn't.
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
4th and Inches said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Typical hysterics.

I support the Separation but oppose these silly hit piece hysterics.
people dont want separation if church and state in the historic sense.. they want separation of religion from all social settings except the actual trips to a house of worship(which is impossible)
freedom OF....versus freedom FROM.....

So. If Republicans are holding a meeting of County Precinct Chairman at county headquarters, led by the County Chairman, with a State Republican Committee member present, do you have a non-denominational prayer at the outset of the meeting. That answer is, traditionally, virtually always. But what if one of those new precinct chairs is Jewish? Do you still hold the prayer? Or do you cancel it in deference to that one non-Christian precinct chair.

(actual scenario).

So many times, Christians are asked to hold back, out of deference to others. But how often is that deference reciprocated?

Does "tolerance" mean "one must not speak (to avoid offending others)?" Or does it mean "one should let others speak (and not be offended)?"
Redbrickbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
C. Jordan said:

JXL said:

David Barton has some interesting books and videos. It's certainly a good idea to check his quotes with the original sources, but he isn't wrong all the time.
He makes selective quotes and quotes founders out of context to form false conclusions.

For example, he quotes the minority of founders who were against religious liberty through church-state separation while not quoting the majority of founders who were for it.

It would be like quoting Mitt Romney on Trump and saying this represents the views of most Republicans.

He does a good job of sounding like he's presenting the truth when he isn't.

The Founders were extremely extremely religious....especially by our standards in 2023

And I am not certain at all that the majority were opposed to State Churches.......most States of course already had Official Churches

But I do agree that the majority of the Founders were against a FEDERAL official religion/official Federal church because if would have been impossible to choose one and the States would never have agreed to it...it would have broken the Union before it began.

[challenge loomed with the meeting of the Constitutional Convention at Philadelphia in the spring of 1787. At that time, nearly all State constitutions required office-holders to swear to their belief in either the divine inspiration of the Old and New Testaments or the truth of Protestant Christianity, and half of the States still levied taxes to support established Christian churches. Yet the delegates at Philadelphia wished to avoid protracted controversy over religious matters-which, in any case, most believed should be left to the States and hoped to reach consensus on the Constitution as quickly as possible.]

This trutful history has been twisted since the 1960s to imply that the Founders thought/wanted religion totally pushed out of public life on the State and local level.

AKA somehow a 10 Commandments monument at a county court house is unconstitutional.

This is a misreading of history and a misreading of the U.S. Constitution.
historian
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Separation of church and state is a myth, at least as currently defined. It's an abuse of the constitution to do the opposite of what was intended: protect religious freedom. There is no legitimate reason to prevent people from praying anywhere, or reading the Bible, etc. The Govt has become the kind of tyrannical monster the Bill of Rights was designed to prevent.

How ironic the courts declared displaying the Ten Commandments on a public building when the Supreme Court itself has an image of Moses & the commandments on the frieze above the entrance! Thankfully our current Court has done intelligent members who ard restoring our freedoms: Coach Kennedy praying on a football field is one example. There are others.
Harrison Bergeron
How long do you want to ignore this user?
historian said:

Separation of church and state is a myth, at least as currently defined. It's an abuse of the constitution to do the opposite of what was intended: protect religious freedom. There is no legitimate reason to prevent people from praying anywhere, or reading the Bible, etc. The Govt has become the kind of tyrannical monster the Bill of Rights was designed to prevent.

How ironic the courts declared displaying the Ten Commandments on a public building when the Supreme Court itself has an image of Moses & the commandments on the frieze above the entrance! Thankfully our current Court has done intelligent members who ard restoring our freedoms: Coach Kennedy praying on a football field is one example. There are others.
The separation of Church and state is not a myth.

Practically, ask yourself ... do you want the same idiots who think men can give birth and who are the modern day Klan controlling the Church? It's a two-way street dumbass.
Oldbear83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Harrison Bergeron said:

historian said:

Separation of church and state is a myth, at least as currently defined. It's an abuse of the constitution to do the opposite of what was intended: protect religious freedom. There is no legitimate reason to prevent people from praying anywhere, or reading the Bible, etc. The Govt has become the kind of tyrannical monster the Bill of Rights was designed to prevent.

How ironic the courts declared displaying the Ten Commandments on a public building when the Supreme Court itself has an image of Moses & the commandments on the frieze above the entrance! Thankfully our current Court has done intelligent members who ard restoring our freedoms: Coach Kennedy praying on a football field is one example. There are others.
The separation of Church and state is not a myth.

Practically, ask yourself ... do you want the same idiots who think men can give birth and who are the modern day Klan controlling the Church? It's a two-way street dumbass.
Read the whole post next time, maybe. Historian clearly said 'as written', and observed that the intent of the Founders was never to deny free practice of faith.

Yet that is the dominant use of the 'separation' argument.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
historian
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Harrison Bergeron said:

historian said:

Separation of church and state is a myth, at least as currently defined. It's an abuse of the constitution to do the opposite of what was intended: protect religious freedom. There is no legitimate reason to prevent people from praying anywhere, or reading the Bible, etc. The Govt has become the kind of tyrannical monster the Bill of Rights was designed to prevent.

How ironic the courts declared displaying the Ten Commandments on a public building when the Supreme Court itself has an image of Moses & the commandments on the frieze above the entrance! Thankfully our current Court has done intelligent members who ard restoring our freedoms: Coach Kennedy praying on a football field is one example. There are others.
The separation of Church and state is not a myth.

Practically, ask yourself ... do you want the same idiots who think men can give birth and who are the modern day Klan controlling the Church? It's a two-way street dumbass.

It is not in the constitution. There is no legitimate basis for the ruling. It most definitely is a myth as interpreted by the court.
Redbrickbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Harrison Bergeron said:

historian said:

Separation of church and state is a myth, at least as currently defined. It's an abuse of the constitution to do the opposite of what was intended: protect religious freedom. There is no legitimate reason to prevent people from praying anywhere, or reading the Bible, etc. The Govt has become the kind of tyrannical monster the Bill of Rights was designed to prevent.

How ironic the courts declared displaying the Ten Commandments on a public building when the Supreme Court itself has an image of Moses & the commandments on the frieze above the entrance! Thankfully our current Court has done intelligent members who ard restoring our freedoms: Coach Kennedy praying on a football field is one example. There are others.
The separation of Church and state is not a myth.

.


Historian is right in the sense that the phrase "separation of Church and State" is not found in the U.S. Constitution of any of the early founding documents of the Continental Congress or the later U.S Congress.

It is a phrase taken from a private letter from Thomas Jefferson and later given probably more meaning than was ever intended.

Jefferson himself might have even chosen a different term if he knew how it was going to be later interpreted by progressive Judges 200 years later.

[The phrase "separation of church and state" appears nowhere in the Constitution, and the Founding Fathers saw nothing wrong with having religion in American culture, according to an expert.

While Congress is prohibited from enacting a state religion, the founding document says nothing about banishing religion from the public square, states Prof. Michael McConnell of Stanford]

[Roger Williams, founder of Rhode Island, was the first public official to ever use this metaphor. He opined that an authentic Christian church would be possible only if there was "a wall or hedge of separation" between the "wilderness of the world" and "the garden of the church." Williams believed that any government involvement in the church would corrupt the church.

The most famous use of the metaphor was by Thomas Jefferson in his 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptist Association.

…writing and its ratification, many religious groups feared that the Constitution offered an insufficient guarantee of the civil and religious rights of citizens. To help win ratification, Madison proposed a bill of rights that would include religious liberty.

Both Jefferson and fellow Virginian James Madison felt that state financial support for a particular religion was improper. They argued that compelling citizens to support through taxation a faith they did not follow violated their natural right to religious liberty. The two were aided in their fight for disestablishment by the Baptists, Presbyterians, Quakers, and other "dissenting" faiths of Anglican Virginia.

As presidents, though, both Jefferson and Madison could be accused of mixing religion and government. Madison issued proclamations of religious fasting and thanksgivings while Jefferson signed treaties that sent religious ministers to the Native Americans. And from its inception, the Supreme Court has opened each of its sessions with the cry "God save the United States and this honorable court."]
historian
How long do you want to ignore this user?
If one reads Jefferson's letter his meaning was about the opposite of what the Supreme Court ruled. They lied. Not the first nor the last time (Dred Scott, Plessy, Roe v Wade, Sullivan, etc).
Harrison Bergeron
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I honestly don't have the patience to debate those that want the federal government to oversee religion. I don't know what kind of Trump-dumbassery has seduced you, but you morons please prostate exam each other in private.
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Harrison Bergeron said:

I honestly don't have the patience to debate those that want the federal government to oversee religion. I don't know what kind of Trump-dumbassery has seduced you, but you morons please prostate exam each other in private.
That's because you completely misunderstand the argument.

The oft-quoted phrase "separation of church and state" is a not entirely accurate summary of the the establishment clause. In context of the day it was written, the establishment clause could only mean a rejection of the British model of having an official state Church. The USG was not to become a defender of the Baptist (insert alternative here) denomination. The President of the USG was not simultaneously to be head of the Baptist General Convention (insert alternative synod here). There would be no requirement for any citizen to adopt any particular religious views in order to have access to the public square, to include holding elective or appointed office.

That's it. Did not mean at all that the Federal government was to enforce the firing of a public official who had the audacity to say a prayer on school grounds. The very meetings where our Constitution was drafted and ratified were both opened and punctuated with prayer for God's guidance. Completely illogical that any reasonable mind could then spin to interpret the establishment clause as prohibiting prayer in public schools.

yet, today, for most of my adult life, the establishment clause has been used precisely as you describe - to oversee religion....to extirpate the faintest vestiges of it from the public square. We've thankfully seen a high-water mark in that, with several recent SCOTUS rulings easing back in a more reasonable direction = originalism. If you want the constitution to mean something other than what it does, don't just add radical new meanings to it. Amend it. Otherwise, it's meaningless.
historian
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Because SCOTUS *******ized the constitution, the state church was atheism & today it's neo-paganism with all the drag events & other perversion in schools.
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.