My parents had season tickets during the John Bridges era. Man, were we bad, but I have nothing but fond memories of going to the book store, seeing the Bear cages and watching them drink DP on the sideline. I grew hoping our team would get better but I grew up to love Baylor.

I attended Baylor during the Van McElroy, Mike Singletary, Doak Field, Walter Ambercrombie era. We were never really a great program under Grant but we were competitive and put players in the NFL. Games were fun and we were a bowl team every other year or so. Grant was the example of the kind of man I wanted at Baylor coaching our student-players.

My sons began to attend games with me in the last 90s and early 2000s. I can remember going to the soccer or basketball games in the morning, driving fast from DFW to Floyd Casey and walking up to the ticket window to buy tickets at game time. There was seldom a line and we could always get seats on the 20 yard line and then move over to the 35. We were awful but my sons enjoyed their time at the bookstore, the Bear cages and supporting Baylor, good or bad on the field.

Art Briles came and changed everything. The internet changed everything, too. A new stadium, a new winning program and we were finally getting some respect. It felt good. We were all proud and my youngest son ran with the freshman that last year at Floyd Casey. I was the only one in the stands of 6 season tickets in my group when we beat UT in our last game to win the Big 12. Those are cherished memories.

Last year might have been the best ever for me. I love Aranda. We had some of the best young men playing for us you could hope for. My expectations for this year were overblown, evidently. We can talk all day, and should, about what happened.

But the internet changed everything. It appeared to be a great source to get good inside information about recruits, players and for fans to connect. I would say though that overall it hasn't been what I had hoped. It gives every person a forum, including me. Some of the venting, anger and frustration lead to silly comments. I guess everyone has the right to an opinion but some of this board and the pay board are sad.

Calls to replace Aranda, to change our philosophy, to bring back Art Briles, to remember only the last loss or a lost season...these are the things that I don't understand.

Man, what a tough loss but after what happened with KState and then to put ourselves in a position to beat an undefeated #4 team in the nation is amazing. Yes, we should have won. Yes, Shapen in struggling but this kid wants to win. I see him lower his head and you can see he is trying to make better decisions but he has lost his confidence.

How would teams today react to what happened to Neal Jeffrey grounded the ball on 4th down with a chance to win the game. Was that 1973? Baylor rallied around him. We were all upset but no one demanded Teaff be fired or we should replace Neal, at least not that I remember. The next year he led us to a SWC championship and the Miracle on the Brazos.

Sorry for the rant but as sad and upset as I am about the loss, the posts on this board and the pay board are heart breaking to me. What happened to loyalty? What happened to support a team and players in hopes of a better day? No, back in the old days we weren't always happy but I don't there was near the over-reaction in the past as there are now.

When I went to Baylor, Hex-Tex was a big thing. We usually lost big to them, but we attended the pep-rallies, showed up for games and thought we had a chance. I still do. I think our team and our coaches are moving in the right direction.

Sadly, Baylor has a lot of garbage fans. Most of them are very vocal on this message board. They have no idea what it means to be fan.

This isn't golf. Different set of fans. Excellent post bakersdozen

Aranda is going to be fine. (Caveat if we are mediocre next season, I think year 5 could be hot seat situation depending on how that goes). It was a troll "saying Aranda isn't the answer" but that was it as far as I saw. No one agreed with him.

It is completely legit to be questioning a couple of our offensive position coaches now. Also going with a different offensive philosophy isn't off base. That isn't saying bring back the actual person Art Briles, Lebby wor whoever from that era. Sonny is doing what we used to do on offense essentially with no one who worked for Briles. Yes Kaz is there and they are blessed with that, but Kaz has nothing to do with offensive strategy other than have everyone in shape for it.

But Aranda is going to do what he wants he should be trusted and it will either be a success or not and he will be the one who pays for it if it isnt over the next couple of years. I still put Aranda way up there among our best HCs in history at this time. I'm just open to saying that can change. No one should start going personality cult for anyone.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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This isn't golf.

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SMH

PartyBear said:

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Aranda is going to be fine. (Caveat if we are mediocre next season, I think year 5 could be hot seat situation depending on how that goes). It was a troll "saying Aranda isn't the answer" but that was it as far as I saw. No one agreed with him.

It is completely legit to be questioning a couple of our offensive position coaches now. Also going with a different offensive philosophy isn't off base. That isn't saying bring back Briles. Sonny is doing what we used to do on offense essentially with no one who worked for Briles. Yes Kaz is there and they are blessed with that, but Kaz has nothing to do with offensive strategy other than have everyone in shape for it.

But Aranda is going to do what he wants he should be trusted and it will either be a success or not and he will be the one who pays for it if it isnt over the next couple of years. I still put Aranda way up their among our best HCs in history at this time. I'm just open to saying that can change. No one should start going personality cult for anyone.

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I'm confused on why the OC is being questioned at all. He called a really good game yesterday. Called 2 really good plays on third down that would have effectively won the game and his qb let him down. Sliding on the first one, which I should have just stopped watching right then, and then ignoring the wide open primary read on the second one. Perfect play call that would have iced the game, qb let him down. OC was not the issue yesterday, our qb shrinking in winning time was.

I'm with you, BakersDozen. There's so much more to Baylor Football than wins and losses. Yes, wins are way better! However, the program is light years ahead of where we were, and the future is bright and promising. How many other programs would love to be in our shoes? Some set expectations too high for this year's team, and now they are lashing out because of their disappointment. That's on them.

Is Shapen the one who decided he was going to be the starting QB? Did the team hold an election on the matter binding on the coaches? Does Grimes have any say in who his position coaches are? I suspect with Aranda's background, those are primarily the OCs calls with HC approval. You can blame the kids all you want. The guys making the big bucks are making the calls and it is reasonable for folks to argue they should be accountable.
Besides what I said was there is nothing wrong with thinking a different offensive philosophy is the way to go. No one said Grimes can't be the one to implement that, if he can.

Baylor football is way bigger than 1 game or 2 plays. It is way bigger than fans that sound more like Tech fans 3 weeks ago wanting to get rid of Joey.

Some just need a broader and longer perspective.

Baylor will be fine long term. At the end of the day, Baylor lost 6 players to the draft and it doesn't recruit well enough for that to happen and then field a team that is just as good (or better) the following season. That's true under Aranda, but it was also true under Rhule and Briles as averaging less than 3 blue chip recruits per high school class (across all three coaches) won't get it done regardless of player development unless we are talking the triple option.

The elevation of Houston, UCF, Cincinnati and BYU will make recruiting better just that much harder.

Baylor will be fine in the long run. This season was not the brutal beatdown some of these threads like to make it out to be. In reality, if we had ironed out a few kinks here and there, Baylor would have 3 extra wins on the board (BYU, WVU, TCU).

Yes, it sucks that these issues even exist in the first place, but no sane individual believed Baylor was going to repeat 2021 (and if you did, may I suggest a doctor's appointment?) Looking ahead, I see a successful future for as long as Aranda is here. I'm not too sold on Shapen, but he's not horrible and hasn't been given enough time to grow and mature as player. Not too educated on Grimes, so I'll hold my opinion for now.

PartyBear said:

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Besides what I said was there is nothing wrong with thinking a different offensive philosophy is the way to go. No one said Grimes can't be the one to implement that, if he can.

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They may come to the same conclusion. I have no way to know but perhaps they looked at what they had at QB and especially the receivers and determined what we have seen gave us the best option at this time. Or perhaps they are sold on what we are doing and just need to get better players to execute it. Aranda has already shown he will make moves he thinks are in the best interest of the team.

As I said in another thread, I think the biggest improvement needs to come on the defensive side....at least getting us to where we were last year. We could never rely on the defense this year to make a stop late that sealed the game. They may have had one or two, but against WVU and TCU they failed badly....and they had a lot of field to work with in both situations to get that stop in their somewhere.

The difference in the game yesterday was that TCU made the two stops late and we did not........and we outgained them considerably for the game. But I doubt that anyone here thought we would stop TCU on either of their last two drives, especially the last one. I wonder what deep down the coaching staff thought about being able to stop them on the game-winning drive. I guess they thought they could or perhaps going for it with 4th and 2 inside our 30 was just too much. And certainly if they had not made it, the noise on this board would have been ballistic. But, as it turned out, that may have been our best chance to win....because the defense is so iffy.

Even with Briles, we too many times never had enough points. We scored 63 against WVU and still lost. There were others. Then we had a defense that wore out because most of the time the other team had the ball. Having a ball control offense is not a bad philosophy, but you have to have the defense to back it up. Sure the opponents don't get as many possessions, but neither do you and multiple 3 and outs is a killer. Right now we just don't seem to have that defense to back it up.

I've said many times this year that there were many years I'd have loved to see us win 6 or 7.

Bakersdozen said:

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My parents had season tickets during the John Bridges era. Man, were we bad, but I have nothing but fond memories of going to the book store, seeing the Bear cages and watching them drink DP on the sideline. I grew hoping our team would get better but I grew up to love Baylor.

I attended Baylor during the Van McElroy, Mike Singletary, Doak Field, Walter Ambercrombie era. We were never really a great program under Grant but we were competitive and put players in the NFL. Games were fun and we were a bowl team every other year or so. Grant was the example of the kind of man I wanted at Baylor coaching our student-players.

My sons began to attend games with me in the last 90s and early 2000s. I can remember going to the soccer or basketball games in the morning, driving fast from DFW to Floyd Casey and walking up to the ticket window to buy tickets at game time. There was seldom a line and we could always get seats on the 20 yard line and then move over to the 35. We were awful but my sons enjoyed their time at the bookstore, the Bear cages and supporting Baylor, good or bad on the field.

Art Briles came and changed everything. The internet changed everything, too. A new stadium, a new winning program and we were finally getting some respect. It felt good. We were all proud and my youngest son ran with the freshman that last year at Floyd Casey. I was the only one in the stands of 6 season tickets in my group when we beat UT in our last game to win the Big 12. Those are cherished memories.

Last year might have been the best ever for me. I love Aranda. We had some of the best young men playing for us you could hope for. My expectations for this year were overblown, evidently. We can talk all day, and should, about what happened.

But the internet changed everything. It appeared to be a great source to get good inside information about recruits, players and for fans to connect. I would say though that overall it hasn't been what I had hoped. It gives every person a forum, including me. Some of the venting, anger and frustration lead to silly comments. I guess everyone has the right to an opinion but some of this board and the pay board are sad.

Calls to replace Aranda, to change our philosophy, to bring back Art Briles, to remember only the last loss or a lost season...these are the things that I don't understand.

Man, what a tough loss but after what happened with KState and then to put ourselves in a position to beat an undefeated #4 team in the nation is amazing. Yes, we should have won. Yes, Shapen in struggling but this kid wants to win. I see him lower his head and you can see he is trying to make better decisions but he has lost his confidence.

How would teams today react to what happened to Neal Jeffrey grounded the ball on 4th down with a chance to win the game. Was that 1973? Baylor rallied around him. We were all upset but no one demanded Teaff be fired or we should replace Neal, at least not that I remember. The next year he led us to a SWC championship and the Miracle on the Brazos.

Sorry for the rant but as sad and upset as I am about the loss, the posts on this board and the pay board are heart breaking to me. What happened to loyalty? What happened to support a team and players in hopes of a better day? No, back in the old days we weren't always happy but I don't there was near the over-reaction in the past as there are now.

When I went to Baylor, Hex-Tex was a big thing. We usually lost big to them, but we attended the pep-rallies, showed up for games and thought we had a chance. I still do. I think our team and our coaches are moving in the right direction.

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you took your sons to watch soccer?

Baylor puts a lot more resources into its program than it did in the past. It isn't crazy for fans to expect a return on investment. I would argue that it would be weird for a true fan to feel indifferent about losing a game that the team probably 'should have' won.

The Hound said:

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Baylor puts a lot more resources into its program than it did in the past. It isn't crazy for fans to expect a return on investment. I would argue that it would be weird for a true fan to feel indifferent about losing a game that the team probably 'should have' won.

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True we were getting results like this year paying the HC 100k a year and the coordinators about 80k a year and on down. This was about 26 or so years ago. I think for the money we put in due and the big business college athletics has become, we should expect more than we did in those days.

Pretty sure we had internet Baylor message boards even before the Morriss era. We've been through rock bottom and our best times ever. The boards are still pretty much the same and internet sports talk is pretty much what it always was.

Robert Wilson said:

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I've said many times this year that there were many years I'd have loved to see us win 6 or 7.

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Under Aranda, I had hoped we had moved passed what we have seen during the BYU, WV, KSU, and TCU games. We can talk all day about play calls and officials, but I don't get the lack of execution, passion, urgency, and leadership. It's still a culture thing for me. As one of my all-time favorite Bears, Kalief Muhammad, said, "We're still the same old damn Baylor." Last year was awesome, but can't seem to sustain it. We can't build off of it and create a "program" with a tradition of championship-level expectations and winning.

Dia del DougO said:

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Pretty sure we had internet Baylor message boards even before the Morriss era. We've been through rock bottom and our best times ever. The boards are still pretty much the same and internet sports talk is pretty much what it always was.

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We did. It was the beginning and I don't remember fans hating their school or calling out their coach so much.

Quote:

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We did. It was the beginning and I don't remember fans hating their school or calling out their coach so much.

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Never haven been much for hating on Baylor or individual players, but perhaps you never read some of the things I, and many others, said about Coach Roberts, President Sloan, AD Stanton and Coach Steele on the old Baylor Fans. It was indeed brutal and well deserved. Defensive Coordinators Norwood (aka no-wood) and Bennett during the Briles era were also treated to much less than stellar reviews online.

This is nothing new. The BMD's always used to be able to do this behind closed doors. Now all of us get to do it in the open.

Bakersdozen said:

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Dia del DougO said:

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Pretty sure we had internet Baylor message boards even before the Morriss era. We've been through rock bottom and our best times ever. The boards are still pretty much the same and internet sports talk is pretty much what it always was.

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We did. It was the beginning and I don't remember fans hating their school or calling out their coach so much.

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Fascinating that is unique to Baylor

CorsicanaBear said:

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Quote:

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We did. It was the beginning and I don't remember fans hating their school or calling out their coach so much.

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Never haven been much for hating on Baylor or individual players, but perhaps you never read some of the things I, and many others, said about Coach Roberts, President Sloan, AD Stanton and Coach Steele on the old Baylor Fans. It was indeed brutal and well deserved. Defensive Coordinators Norwood (aka no-wood) and Bennett during the Briles era were also treated to much less than stellar reviews online.

This is nothing new. The BMD's always used to be able to do this behind closed doors. Now all of us get to do it in the open.

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Thanks for taking my call. Do you guys even practice?

Said to Coach Steele on a call in show the Monday after a game.

Year 1: Results well below talent level.
Year 2: Results probably above talent level
Year 3: Results somewhat below talent level

Year 4 and 5 will reveal a lot.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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The elevation of Houston, UCF, Cincinnati and BYU will make recruiting better just that much harder.

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People keep saying that...but is it true?

Cincinnati gets recruits from Ohio & Pennsylvania & greater Midwest...and a little from other places.

UCF recruits Florida, Georgia, Alabama...and a little from other places.

BYU gets big Mormon farm boys from Utah, Idaho, Montana, Mt. West...goes to Polynesia (Hawaii, Tonga) for defensive plays...and some receivers from California.

I just don't see how these schools coming into the Big 12 hurts Baylor.

And I doubt Houston will even hurt BU.

There also wasn't this thing called the internet back in the 70s.
Players didn't have twitter accounts or cell phones.

Players and coaches didn't hear the fans gripes unless they wrote it down and mailed it to them.

Think that has something to do with it.

Talk radio was the main avenue for whining 30 years ago.

For some, baseball is boring and for others golf. For me, soccer is boring.

While these guys prove their athleticism by running for days and making some amazing kicks, I have trouble with them faking a compound fracture every 10 minutes or so. That makes it gay to me.

I'm sure fans of Rugby and Australian Rules Football think our brand of football, with all the time spent between plays, the constant substitutions, the pads and helmets probably think our sport is gay.

Obviously "gay" in this case has nothing to do with orientation but toughness.

Robert Wilson said:

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Bakersdozen said:

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Dia del DougO said:

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Pretty sure we had internet Baylor message boards even before the Morriss era. We've been through rock bottom and our best times ever. The boards are still pretty much the same and internet sports talk is pretty much what it always was.

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We did. It was the beginning and I don't remember fans hating their school or calling out their coach so much.

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Fascinating that is unique to Baylor

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Many Tech fans were ready to fire Joey at mid-season. Their boards were lit up. Now they have won two in a row he is back in good graces. The internet has become the venting vehicle for everything and everyone. It has gotten worse. Fans haven't always been happy but the time has come when people fee protected by their username and in many cases it is totally acceptable to act like an ass.

There will be many on this board comfortable with that. I am just not one of them.

tcbear said:

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Talk radio was the main avenue for whining 30 years ago.

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And now we get to this...

This is the angriest sports debate I have ever seen. pic.twitter.com/c6MK7b5gxc

— Clay Travis (@ClayTravis) November 21, 2022

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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CorsicanaBear said:

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Quote:

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We did. It was the beginning and I don't remember fans hating their school or calling out their coach so much.

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Never haven been much for hating on Baylor or individual players, but perhaps you never read some of the things I, and many others, said about Coach Roberts, President Sloan, AD Stanton and Coach Steele on the old Baylor Fans. It was indeed brutal and well deserved. Defensive Coordinators Norwood (aka no-wood) and Bennett during the Briles era were also treated to much less than stellar reviews online.

This is nothing new. The BMD's always used to be able to do this behind closed doors. Now all of us get to do it in the open.

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Thanks for taking my call. Do you guys even practice?

Said to Coach Steele on a call in show the Monday after a game.

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That was me on the call in. Honestly. I was known as Judge in those days. The call in host cut the call. I salute your memory.

tcbear said:

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Talk radio was the main avenue for whining 30 years ago.

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Back when 1660 was borderline listenable, long before the quality of the Smoak era, it was worth it when Aggy Al called in.

Bakersdozen said:

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Dia del DougO said:

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Pretty sure we had internet Baylor message boards even before the Morriss era. We've been through rock bottom and our best times ever. The boards are still pretty much the same and internet sports talk is pretty much what it always was.

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We did. It was the beginning and I don't remember fans hating their school or calling out their coach so much.

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I think you confuse "hating your school" with wanting them to be a lot better. Every fan of every sport questions coaching when the don't play to expectations. Lose more, get more criticism.

Jack Bauer said:

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tcbear said:

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Talk radio was the main avenue for whining 30 years ago.

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And now we get to this...

This is the angriest sports debate I have ever seen. pic.twitter.com/c6MK7b5gxc

— Clay Travis (@ClayTravis) November 21, 2022

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Skip has been around way too long.

EatMoreSalmon said:

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Jack Bauer said:

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tcbear said:

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Talk radio was the main avenue for whining 30 years ago.

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And now we get to this...

This is the angriest sports debate I have ever seen. pic.twitter.com/c6MK7b5gxc

— Clay Travis (@ClayTravis) November 21, 2022

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Skip has been around way too long.

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I saw a promo where he calls himself a life long Cowboys fan. He's the idiot that wrote a Cowboys trashing book and made up some bullcorn about Aikman being gay.

I don't know why so many people listen to that crap, or the dozens of shows and hundreds of idiots just like them that ruin sports media today.

I miss things like the old Sportswriters roundtable on KRLD where a group of actual beat writers could speak intelligently and insightfully about football, and the listeners actually could get something constructive of it.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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CorsicanaBear said:

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Quote:

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We did. It was the beginning and I don't remember fans hating their school or calling out their coach so much.

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Never haven been much for hating on Baylor or individual players, but perhaps you never read some of the things I, and many others, said about Coach Roberts, President Sloan, AD Stanton and Coach Steele on the old Baylor Fans. It was indeed brutal and well deserved. Defensive Coordinators Norwood (aka no-wood) and Bennett during the Briles era were also treated to much less than stellar reviews online.

This is nothing new. The BMD's always used to be able to do this behind closed doors. Now all of us get to do it in the open.

---

Thanks for taking my call. Do you guys even practice?

Said to Coach Steele on a call in show the Monday after a game.

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That was me on the call in. Honestly. I was known as Judge in those days. The call in host cut the call. I salute your memory.

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In order of importance
1. Never have so few done so much for so many.
2. Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.
3. Do you guys even practice?