blackie said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Dia del DougO said:

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Also, I believe in this particular case, that Kansas State proved to be the best team in the conference at the end of the season. They won the legitimate title and they earned it. That doesn't qualify them for the fake playoff, but it means TCU isn't the champion and isn't entitled to that spot. They didn't earn it, and didn't deserve it over the legit conference champ.

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So TCU's regular season win over Kansas State meant literally nothing then? Same with Kansas State's loss to Texas?

Ignoring an entire season worth of work in favor of a championship game K-State had no logical claim to (they finished two games behind TCU in the regular season and lost head to head) seems really damn silly to me.

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We have reached a system of second or in some cases third chances, and in the case of Big XII basketball, perhaps a fourth time. It is not good enough to beat a team once, you have to beat them again. In other words, you need to win the game that counts regardless of how many times you beat them during the season. High schools in my day sent one team to bi-district. Everyone else was done. Now in the smallest of districts, you don't even have to have a winning record in district to go to the playoffs.

The only truly fair thing is to just have regular season champions move on. If you already played someone and lost, you had your chance. Cut out the plethora of bowl games, basketball tournament spots and playoff games for high school.....reduce the amount of participation trophies. But that will never happen. TV greed and hurt feelings will prevail.

We don't need close to 40 bowl games. You should have at least a record of 8-4 to play in what is left, and even that is questionable if all of this is based on competition. But we know it is not. It is all about money, and the gullible people that will fork it over to watch entertainment.

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All of this is moot because all of the sports' biggest problems get fixed in a 12-team playoff. We will soon get all relevant conference champions and all others with a legitimate claim to a spot.

But with a silly four-team playoff, it never made sense to limit field to conference champions because there has always been a sizeable gap in the quality of the conferences.

parch said:

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It's hilarious to me that TCU could potentially have a 12-0 regular season and end the year with zero trophies to show for it.

Go Blue.

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They'll join Cincinnati as the only "New" Big 12 team to reach the CFP, which is a designation I'd love for Baylor to have.

If they end up losing to Michigan, I'll take our 2021 over their 2022 any day of the week. You can't put "made the CFP" in your trophy case.

parch said:

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If they end up losing to Michigan, I'll take our 2021 over their 2022 any day of the week. You can't put "made the CFP" in your trophy case.

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I'd rather have a shot at a national championship than play a meaningless bowl game -- conference championship or no. And that goes for all sports -- minus the bowl game part.

And I'd rather have a conference title and a Sugar Bowl banner than put together a 12-0 season and have nothing to show for it, as TCU is on the cusp of doing.

MrGolfguy said:

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Should be a CFP rule. Tcu is 12-1 Big12 runner up, therefore they shouldn't make the CFP.

#FACTS

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so if baylor went undefeated in the regular season then ended up losing in OT of the CCG to a team they'd already defeated, would you hold the same view? i hiiiiiiighly doubt it.

and the new CFP format takes care of some of that anyways. as we know, TCU wouldn't have even qualified for a bye. that very rule could end up screwing a team like Baylor. there's a good chance that a Big 12 team is going to get completely knocked out of CFP contention after losing to an inferior team in the CCG.

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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So if Georgia and Michigan lose, who gets in the playoff?

Utah
Clemson
LSU
Kansas State?

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doesn't matter now.

under the proposed scenario, no Big 12 team would have qualified for this year's CFP. you'd instead be rewarding schools with better records against inferior competition (e.g., Clemson running through a weak ACC)

This is why when the playoff expands and adds games at the end of the year they need to do away with conf champ games altogether and just go by record and head to head to determine a conf champ. It's not fair that TCU has to replay KSU after they won all their games while Ohio State gets rewarded with a spot when they lost.

parch said:

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And I'd rather have a conference title and a Sugar Bowl banner than put together a 12-0 season and have nothing to show for it, as TCU is on the cusp of doing.

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TCU is going to put "2023 College Football Playoffs" on their stadium and that will be a higher accomplishment than a Big 12 championship or Consolation Prize Bowl victory.

bear2be2 said:

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parch said:

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If they end up losing to Michigan, I'll take our 2021 over their 2022 any day of the week. You can't put "made the CFP" in your trophy case.

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I'd rather have a shot at a national championship than play a meaningless bowl game -- conference championship or no. And that goes for all sports -- minus the bowl game part.

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I see your point and both you and Parch have some good points.

IN the long run having a trophy is always good to show recruits.

But so is being able to say you played for the NC.

Sort of the way there is no shame in saying you made the field of 64 but at least you can hang a banner for that.....

muddybrazos said:

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This is why when the playoff expands and adds games at the end of the year they need to do away with conf champ games altogether and just go by record and head to head to determine a conf champ. It's not fair that TCU has to replay KSU after they won all their games while Ohio State gets rewarded with a spot when they lost.

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Is that what you said last year when we were playing and winning a conference championship?

cowboycwr said:

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bear2be2 said:

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parch said:

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If they end up losing to Michigan, I'll take our 2021 over their 2022 any day of the week. You can't put "made the CFP" in your trophy case.

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I'd rather have a shot at a national championship than play a meaningless bowl game -- conference championship or no. And that goes for all sports -- minus the bowl game part.

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I see your point and both you and Parch have some good points.

IN the long run having a trophy is always good to show recruits.

But so is being able to say you played for the NC.

Sort of the way there is no shame in saying you made the field of 64 but at least you can hang a banner for that.....

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Both are great seasons. I'll take our 2021 any year and be thrilled. But what TCU has done this year is special. A perfect regular season and CFP berth is a big deal -- with or without a conference championship.

cowboycwr said:

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muddybrazos said:

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This is why when the playoff expands and adds games at the end of the year they need to do away with conf champ games altogether and just go by record and head to head to determine a conf champ. It's not fair that TCU has to replay KSU after they won all their games while Ohio State gets rewarded with a spot when they lost.

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Is that what you said last year when we were playing and winning a conference championship?

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Having a conference championship after a round-robin schedule is illogical and stupid. The last three champions all lost their regular season matchups and finished at least one game behind the team they eventually beat for the title -- completely negating the regular season results.

That said, it's kind of like the Electoral College. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you think about it, but those are the rules we've agreed to, and everyone knows that up front. You can complain about the system, but it's the system in place.

cowboycwr said:

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muddybrazos said:

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This is why when the playoff expands and adds games at the end of the year they need to do away with conf champ games altogether and just go by record and head to head to determine a conf champ. It's not fair that TCU has to replay KSU after they won all their games while Ohio State gets rewarded with a spot when they lost.

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Is that what you said last year when we were playing and winning a conference championship?

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Honestly, I didnt even think about it last year bc it wont matter until the playoff expands but at that point you're adding more games which give more chance of injury so the better team should not be penalized. If it were a 12 team playoff we woulda been in last year regardless.

I will agree to disagree on that one.

parch said:

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I will agree to disagree on that one.

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You can agree to disagree, but only 14 teams have played in the CFP. I know it hasn't been going on very long and it's going to expand soon, but at this point, it's a pretty elite group of teams. And outside of Bama, tOSU, Clemson, OU and Georgia, it is a pretty big rarity to make it to the CFP.

Of course all of the schools will spin it however they want to, but I would have much rather had TCUs season and make it to the CFP than win the Sugar Bowl against the #3 SEC team. Even if TCU loses in the first round, it's still a more elite game and much more exposure. People are going to be talking about TCU for the next month and if they pull it out and win one or both games, they will go down in history as probably one of the biggest Cinderella stories of all time in college football. They are probably already in that discussion without even playing any of the CFP games yet. They are playing with house money at this point.

contrario said:

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parch said:

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I will agree to disagree on that one.

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You can agree to disagree, but only 14 teams have played in the CFP. I know it hasn't been going on very long and it's going to expand soon, but at this point, it's a pretty elite group of teams. And outside of Bama, tOSU, Clemson, OU and Georgia, it is a pretty big rarity to make it to the CFP.

Of course all of the schools will spin it however they want to, but I would have much rather had TCUs season and make it to the CFP than win the Sugar Bowl against the #3 SEC team. Even if TCU loses in the first round, it's still a more elite game and much more exposure. People are going to be talking about TCU for the next month and if they pull it out and win one or both games, they will go down in history as probably one of the biggest Cinderella stories of all time in college football. They are probably already in that discussion without even playing any of the CFP games yet. They are playing with house money at this point.

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You would think some serious recruiting momentum

parch said:

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And I'd rather have a conference title and a Sugar Bowl banner than put together a 12-0 season and have nothing to show for it, as TCU is on the cusp of doing.

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Tcu will beat Michigan

Logic seems like an extremely rare thing these days.

bear2be2 said:

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Dia del DougO said:

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Also, I believe in this particular case, that Kansas State proved to be the best team in the conference at the end of the season. They won the legitimate title and they earned it. That doesn't qualify them for the fake playoff, but it means TCU isn't the champion and isn't entitled to that spot. They didn't earn it, and didn't deserve it over the legit conference champ.

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So TCU's regular season win over Kansas State meant literally nothing then? Same with Kansas State's loss to Texas?

Ignoring an entire season worth of work in favor of a championship game K-State had no logical claim to (they finished two games behind TCU in the regular season and lost head to head) seems really damn silly to me.

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TCU's regular season win over K State helped them to end the season undefeated and that's what got them into the playoffs. K state has the second best conference record and that was enough to get them into the title game. In that sense, the loss to Texas by itself didn't matter.

Everyone knows the rules going into the year.

Finish in the Top 2 in Conference - Play for the Conference Title.

Whether you finish a perfect 12-0, or qualify for the title game with a 9-3 record - you qualified for the game that matters most.

And in nearly EVERY SPORT not named College Football, everyone is aware of the high stakes involved once you are playing for a trophy.


Bottom Line: Win the game that matters most, or you don't deserve to play for an even greater prize.

Kansas State won when it mattered, and honestly, they deserve to be in the CFP more than TCU.


Thankfully, the 12-Team Playoff will be here soon enough, and a lot of this 'beauty pageant' garbage will go by the wayside.

They won't…but, if Michigan wanted to - they can line up in 2 TE heavy set and impose their will on TCU physically….run the ball 60 times, mix in a little PAP…game over.

Hope they can win it…certainly they can - but unlikely if UM shows up ready to go and takes care of the ball.

In the current system with a 4 team playoff - i think it doesn't matter if you win the conference as long as you have the resume. Conferences are not all equals so it only makes sense to put the best teams in. TCU earned their shot despite not winning the conference. I agree with most - we have a round robin and then play the conference title. All the other conferences are only playing their division so teams can have an up or down year which could be advantageous.

That said - if TCU goes into the playoff and lays an egg; then they're going to be viewed like they didn't belong there. To some it is better to have won the big 12 and their respective bowl game (I agree). On the other hand - they will bolster their stats mentioning they went to the playoff which is a great achievement. Depending on your perspective depends on which is more impressive. But as we know - the only thing people really remember is winning the championship as most people don't remember the loser.

Nobody remembers the 2nd place team. And no one will remember they beat (barely in most every case) 6 backup QBs en route to a playoff berth

Tis what it tis

Generally true but I think those who remember our winning the conference last year remember it was vs OSU mainly because of McPlay.

Fre3dombear said:

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Nobody remembers the 2nd place team. And no one will remember they beat (barely in most every case) 6 backup QBs en route to a playoff berth

Tis what it tis

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Unless they are the Buffalo Bills.....

Or 2005 USC

or a few others because they are famous for being second place in a major game considered one of the best games.

I would back off a bit and say a team must play in its conference championship game to be eligible. Further, the loser of the championship game must have a better record than any other winner of the game in another conference to play in the CFP instead of that winner. This would ensure more fairness to the conferences and give the winner more credibility.

Back in the BCS days, it was hilarious when Steve Spurrier said Alabama had played in more national championship games than they had in conference championship games since the BCS began. He was spot on.

aledocrow said:

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I would back off a bit and say a team must play in its conference championship game to be eligible.

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This whole thread is moot, once the 12 team playoff is enacted. But in the spirit of playing along under the current regime. Not all conference championship games have the two best teams in the conference playing. Many, stupidlly, are selected from geographic regions that were created years ago. So the loser of the championship game might be the 7th best team in the conference.

bear2be2 said:

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Noname said:

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Nailer said:

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BellCountyBear said:

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MrGolfguy said:

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Should be a CFP rule. Tcu is 12-1 Big12 runner up, therefore they shouldn't make the CFP.

#FACTS

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This is stupid. There shouldn't even be a conference championship game when you play everyone in your conference. TCu deserves to be in the CFP.

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When you really think about it, it is ridiculous that a team goes 12-0, 9-0 in conference, beating every league member, but has to play a championship game vs an opponent they already beat and has two league loses.

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This may be true in a year when a team is 12-0, 9-0 in conference play, but remember the championship game came about several years ago when Baylor and TCU had identical records, and there was not an "official" Big 12 champion, so the Big 12 was excluded from the playoff.

I doubt it will work against TCU this year. They had a great game, lost in overtime, and the quarterback probably burnished his Heisman credentials in the process. But - we will find out soon enough.

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That's not why the Big 12 was excluded. That was just the inconsistent rationale the committee used in that particular season to put Ohio State in over one of those teams.

The committee picks its teams and builds a case around it, logic and past precedent be damned. There is no consistent criteria. It's just whoever the committee likes best.

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I was not saying this was the only reason the Big 12 was excluded. I am saying this was a big part of the reason the Big 12 opted for a championship game at the end of the season.