Better off how? We now have a "yes sir" coach. After all that's what Mack wants. Mack's who won't allow anything but coaches who will constantly bow down to him. Arabda and Collen fit that mold perfectly. Not a knock on either per se

D. C. Bear said:

---

IowaBear said:

---

You lost me at "a decent case can be made for WBB with her replacement" what fantasy are you living in??? 2straight Rd 32 exits while Mulkey won a Natty in yr 2. And will likely win another this year. I like CNC but that comment is head scratching at best

---

I said that a case can be made that Baylor is better off with her replacement, not that the women's basketball team wins more. No need to misquote me.

---

A case can be made, but it's similar to the argument for dropping WBB altogether. WBB is one of those sports where you're either one of the best 3-4 programs in the country with high visibility and coverage, or you basically don't exist. We were in the small club of haves, we are no longer in that club, and there's no reason to think we will be again. Would require going and catching lightning in a bottle (Mulkey II) which is not likely.

IowaBear said:

---

Better off how? We now have a "yes sir" coach. After all that's what Mack wants. Mack's who won't allow anything but coaches who will constantly bow down to him. Arabda and Collen fit that mold perfectly. Not a knock on either per se

---

Women's basketball is not a profit center.
Money is finite.
Mulkey was expensive.
Collen is less so.

Midnight Rider said:

---

I don't give a rat's ass about uniforms or "game day presentation".

What matters to me is that we recently won the Big 12 Championship in football and beat a SEC team in the Sugar Bowl.

And just a few years back we won the national championship in men's basketball.

Yes, he let Kim get away but I put that on her being too big for her britches.

During the lightning delay on Saturday I heard him being interviewed on 1660 AM and it sounds like he has a good handle on the NIL situation.

I got no problem with the guy,

---

this is the take.

Are we really overlooking the new hoops arena...or are we already complaining about the size?

It is nice. However new facilities arent the power behind recruiting they used to be NIL is now. If facilities were still the name of the game McLane would still have us in the top 15 or so consistently.

A+, Running off the best woman's BB coach in the sport
A, Replacing her with a known name that will keep us respectable in wins, but lacking in championships

A, Hiring a known name football coach with no head coaching experience
A, watching Bayer football get worse and pretending we're in good shape
A, ensuring we have a coach with no offensive identity or plan
A, being reactive to NIL rather than proactive

A, attempting to style his hair

A, staying out of CSDs way

D. C. Bear said:

---

IowaBear said:

---

Better off how? We now have a "yes sir" coach. After all that's what Mack wants. Mack's who won't allow anything but coaches who will constantly bow down to him. Arabda and Collen fit that mold perfectly. Not a knock on either per se

---

Women's basketball is not a profit center.
Money is finite.
Mulkey was expensive.
Collen is less so.

---

That's true. Is there a way to drop WBB altogether and find a cheaper way to comply with Title IX?

The argument that Collen is cheaper than Mulkey and that WBB has a ceiling is a legit argument. I think it ignores a lot of pretty important things -- e.g. Mulkey's popularity with the alumni base, the visibility of winning NCs, the context in which we stunk at everything until Mulkey started winning, the extent to which she was a big cheerleader for Baylor in general (which backfired on her during Briles gate)... So, in the end, I don't think it's a winning argument. I also think if you're going to be mediocre at WBB there's not a lot of reason to do it. The extension to "let's find a cheaper way to comply with TItle IX" flows pretty easily from that.

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

IowaBear said:

---

You lost me at "a decent case can be made for WBB with her replacement" what fantasy are you living in??? 2straight Rd 32 exits while Mulkey won a Natty in yr 2. And will likely win another this year. I like CNC but that comment is head scratching at best

---

I said that a case can be made that Baylor is better off with her replacement, not that the women's basketball team wins more. No need to misquote me.

---

A case can be made, but it's similar to the argument for dropping WBB altogether. WBB is one of those sports where you're either one of the best 3-4 programs in the country with high visibility and coverage, or you basically don't exist. We were in the small club of haves, we are no longer in that club, and there's no reason to think we will be again. Would require going and catching lightning in a bottle (Mulkey II) which is not likely.

---

Title IX will not let you drop WBB without adding something else, but we continue to get high level recruits and will likely continue to have a high level of "visibility" in the same way that some football programs continue to be noticed in media even if they underperform for a decade-plus.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

IowaBear said:

---

You lost me at "a decent case can be made for WBB with her replacement" what fantasy are you living in??? 2straight Rd 32 exits while Mulkey won a Natty in yr 2. And will likely win another this year. I like CNC but that comment is head scratching at best

---

I said that a case can be made that Baylor is better off with her replacement, not that the women's basketball team wins more. No need to misquote me.

---

A case can be made, but it's similar to the argument for dropping WBB altogether. WBB is one of those sports where you're either one of the best 3-4 programs in the country with high visibility and coverage, or you basically don't exist. We were in the small club of haves, we are no longer in that club, and there's no reason to think we will be again. Would require going and catching lightning in a bottle (Mulkey II) which is not likely.

---

Title IX will not let you drop WBB without adding something else, but we continue to get high level recruits and will likely continue to have a high level of "visibility" in the same way that some football programs continue to be noticed in media even if they underperform for a decade-plus.

---

Maybe true on the first part. Definitely not true on the second part. Your average sports fan has connotations in WBB for UConn, ND, Stanford, South Carolina ... used to be Baylor. But if you're not elite you're invisible. Nothing like a 6-6 P5 football team.

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

IowaBear said:

---

You lost me at "a decent case can be made for WBB with her replacement" what fantasy are you living in??? 2straight Rd 32 exits while Mulkey won a Natty in yr 2. And will likely win another this year. I like CNC but that comment is head scratching at best

---

I said that a case can be made that Baylor is better off with her replacement, not that the women's basketball team wins more. No need to misquote me.

---

A case can be made, but it's similar to the argument for dropping WBB altogether. WBB is one of those sports where you're either one of the best 3-4 programs in the country with high visibility and coverage, or you basically don't exist. We were in the small club of haves, we are no longer in that club, and there's no reason to think we will be again. Would require going and catching lightning in a bottle (Mulkey II) which is not likely.

---

Title IX will not let you drop WBB without adding something else, but we continue to get high level recruits and will likely continue to have a high level of "visibility" in the same way that some football programs continue to be noticed in media even if they underperform for a decade-plus.

---

Maybe true on the first part. Definitely not true on the second part. Your average sports fan has connotations in WBB for UConn, ND, Stanford, South Carolina ... used to be Baylor. But if you're not elite you're invisible. Nothing like a 6-6 P5 football team.

---

Your "average sports fan" doesn't watch or follow women's basketball.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

IowaBear said:

---

You lost me at "a decent case can be made for WBB with her replacement" what fantasy are you living in??? 2straight Rd 32 exits while Mulkey won a Natty in yr 2. And will likely win another this year. I like CNC but that comment is head scratching at best

---

I said that a case can be made that Baylor is better off with her replacement, not that the women's basketball team wins more. No need to misquote me.

---

A case can be made, but it's similar to the argument for dropping WBB altogether. WBB is one of those sports where you're either one of the best 3-4 programs in the country with high visibility and coverage, or you basically don't exist. We were in the small club of haves, we are no longer in that club, and there's no reason to think we will be again. Would require going and catching lightning in a bottle (Mulkey II) which is not likely.

---

Title IX will not let you drop WBB without adding something else, but we continue to get high level recruits and will likely continue to have a high level of "visibility" in the same way that some football programs continue to be noticed in media even if they underperform for a decade-plus.

---

Maybe true on the first part. Definitely not true on the second part. Your average sports fan has connotations in WBB for UConn, ND, Stanford, South Carolina ... used to be Baylor. But if you're not elite you're invisible. Nothing like a 6-6 P5 football team.

---

Your "average sports fan" doesn't watch or follow women's basketball.

---

Indeed. That's the point.

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

IowaBear said:

---

You lost me at "a decent case can be made for WBB with her replacement" what fantasy are you living in??? 2straight Rd 32 exits while Mulkey won a Natty in yr 2. And will likely win another this year. I like CNC but that comment is head scratching at best

---

I said that a case can be made that Baylor is better off with her replacement, not that the women's basketball team wins more. No need to misquote me.

---

A case can be made, but it's similar to the argument for dropping WBB altogether. WBB is one of those sports where you're either one of the best 3-4 programs in the country with high visibility and coverage, or you basically don't exist. We were in the small club of haves, we are no longer in that club, and there's no reason to think we will be again. Would require going and catching lightning in a bottle (Mulkey II) which is not likely.

---

Title IX will not let you drop WBB without adding something else, but we continue to get high level recruits and will likely continue to have a high level of "visibility" in the same way that some football programs continue to be noticed in media even if they underperform for a decade-plus.

---

Maybe true on the first part. Definitely not true on the second part. Your average sports fan has connotations in WBB for UConn, ND, Stanford, South Carolina ... used to be Baylor. But if you're not elite you're invisible. Nothing like a 6-6 P5 football team.

---

Your "average sports fan" doesn't watch or follow women's basketball.

---

Indeed. That's the point.

---

Yes, and so it really easy to overspend on women's basketball. Not getting into a bidding was with LSU for Mulkey was the right call.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

IowaBear said:

---

You lost me at "a decent case can be made for WBB with her replacement" what fantasy are you living in??? 2straight Rd 32 exits while Mulkey won a Natty in yr 2. And will likely win another this year. I like CNC but that comment is head scratching at best

---

I said that a case can be made that Baylor is better off with her replacement, not that the women's basketball team wins more. No need to misquote me.

---

A case can be made, but it's similar to the argument for dropping WBB altogether. WBB is one of those sports where you're either one of the best 3-4 programs in the country with high visibility and coverage, or you basically don't exist. We were in the small club of haves, we are no longer in that club, and there's no reason to think we will be again. Would require going and catching lightning in a bottle (Mulkey II) which is not likely.

---

Title IX will not let you drop WBB without adding something else, but we continue to get high level recruits and will likely continue to have a high level of "visibility" in the same way that some football programs continue to be noticed in media even if they underperform for a decade-plus.

---

Maybe true on the first part. Definitely not true on the second part. Your average sports fan has connotations in WBB for UConn, ND, Stanford, South Carolina ... used to be Baylor. But if you're not elite you're invisible. Nothing like a 6-6 P5 football team.

---

Your "average sports fan" doesn't watch or follow women's basketball.

---

Indeed. That's the point.

---

Yes, and so it really easy to overspend on women's basketball. Not getting into a bidding was with LSU for Mulkey was the right call.

---

That doesn't follow. My point is you're either so good you hit the general public awareness or you're not. We were, now we're not. The value of that lack of visibility is a very mushy thing, but it's not zero.

And at this point we might as well just stink at WBB. Pay really little for a totally unproven coach and just don't worry about it. Or drop it altogether if there's another path to title IX compliance. WBB doesn't fill a lot of scholarships...

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

IowaBear said:

---

You lost me at "a decent case can be made for WBB with her replacement" what fantasy are you living in??? 2straight Rd 32 exits while Mulkey won a Natty in yr 2. And will likely win another this year. I like CNC but that comment is head scratching at best

---

I said that a case can be made that Baylor is better off with her replacement, not that the women's basketball team wins more. No need to misquote me.

---

A case can be made, but it's similar to the argument for dropping WBB altogether. WBB is one of those sports where you're either one of the best 3-4 programs in the country with high visibility and coverage, or you basically don't exist. We were in the small club of haves, we are no longer in that club, and there's no reason to think we will be again. Would require going and catching lightning in a bottle (Mulkey II) which is not likely.

---

Title IX will not let you drop WBB without adding something else, but we continue to get high level recruits and will likely continue to have a high level of "visibility" in the same way that some football programs continue to be noticed in media even if they underperform for a decade-plus.

---

Maybe true on the first part. Definitely not true on the second part. Your average sports fan has connotations in WBB for UConn, ND, Stanford, South Carolina ... used to be Baylor. But if you're not elite you're invisible. Nothing like a 6-6 P5 football team.

---

Your "average sports fan" doesn't watch or follow women's basketball.

---

Indeed. That's the point.

---

Yes, and so it really easy to overspend on women's basketball. Not getting into a bidding was with LSU for Mulkey was the right call.

---

That doesn't follow. My point is you're either so good you hit the general public awareness or you're not. We were, now we're not. The value of that lack of visibility is a very mushy thing, but it's not zero.

And at this point we might as well just stink at WBB. Pay really little for a totally unproven coach and just don't worry about it. Or drop it altogether if there's another path to title IX compliance. WBB doesn't fill a lot of scholarships...

---

Yup. You are right. In the WBB world, you are top 3 or you don't exist.

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

What grade would you give Rhodes?"

---

"D"

He may be a good administrator, he may identify talent, but something he does is breaking the system. . He had three programs that were B12 Champ or higher level and made them mediocre to bad. Why? Because

To me, it is the sign of a micro-manager, someone more concerned with the "how they do it" then "the results they get" BU will be mediocre or worst under this guy. I can't believe that Drew & CDA forgot how to coach. But coaching under prescriptive requirements could do it. Mulkey knew enough to get out..

---

Mulkey didn't like it when she couldn't dictate where the new arena went, she got a significantly better financial offer, and it was the right call to wish her well. She had no difficulty winning a national title "under this guy."

You are arguing that our men's basketball program is "mediocre to bad" "under this guy." They won a national championship "under this guy" and could very easily have won two titles were it not for injuries. Scott Drew continues to do his thing, and it sure isn't "mediocre to bad." Our 2023 class is ranked 4th nationally. Please stop making a fool of yourself.

https://247sports.com/season/2023-basketball/overallteamrankings/

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

What grade would you give Rhodes?"

---

"D"

He may be a good administrator, he may identify talent, but something he does is breaking the system. . He had three programs that were B12 Champ or higher level and made them mediocre to bad. Why? Because

To me, it is the sign of a micro-manager, someone more concerned with the "how they do it" then "the results they get" BU will be mediocre or worst under this guy. I can't believe that Drew & CDA forgot how to coach. But coaching under prescriptive requirements could do it. Mulkey knew enough to get out..

---

Mulkey didn't like it when she couldn't dictate where the new arena went, she got a significantly better financial offer, and it was the right call to wish her well. She had no difficulty winning a national title "under this guy."

You are arguing that our men's basketball program is "mediocre to bad" "under this guy." They won a national championship "under this guy" and could very easily have won two titles were it not for injuries. Scott Drew continues to do his thing, and it sure isn't "mediocre to bad." Our 2023 class is ranked 4th nationally. Please stop making a fool of yourself.

https://247sports.com/season/2023-basketball/overallteamrankings/

---

You seem to forget that we won during the COVID year. Counts, but not normal by any means.

Some would say Mulkey won in spite of this guy.

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

What grade would you give Rhodes?"

---

"D"

He may be a good administrator, he may identify talent, but something he does is breaking the system. . He had three programs that were B12 Champ or higher level and made them mediocre to bad. Why? Because

To me, it is the sign of a micro-manager, someone more concerned with the "how they do it" then "the results they get" BU will be mediocre or worst under this guy. I can't believe that Drew & CDA forgot how to coach. But coaching under prescriptive requirements could do it. Mulkey knew enough to get out..

---

Mulkey didn't like it when she couldn't dictate where the new arena went, she got a significantly better financial offer, and it was the right call to wish her well. She had no difficulty winning a national title "under this guy."

You are arguing that our men's basketball program is "mediocre to bad" "under this guy." They won a national championship "under this guy" and could very easily have won two titles were it not for injuries. Scott Drew continues to do his thing, and it sure isn't "mediocre to bad." Our 2023 class is ranked 4th nationally. Please stop making a fool of yourself.

https://247sports.com/season/2023-basketball/overallteamrankings/

---

You seem to forget that we won during the COVID year. Counts, but not normal by any means.

Some would say Mulkey won in spite of this guy.

---

We were also the predicted top overall seed before COVID knocked out the 2020 tournament, "under this guy," and you are still arguing that our men's basketball program is mediocre to bad. You are making a fool of yourself.

Some would say a lot of things. Some would say that Mulkey won in spite of herself and that winning only one title with a generational talent in Brittany Griner was an indictment on her coaching.

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

What grade would you give Rhodes?"

---

"D"

He may be a good administrator, he may identify talent, but something he does is breaking the system. . He had three programs that were B12 Champ or higher level and made them mediocre to bad. Why? Because

To me, it is the sign of a micro-manager, someone more concerned with the "how they do it" then "the results they get" BU will be mediocre or worst under this guy. I can't believe that Drew & CDA forgot how to coach. But coaching under prescriptive requirements could do it. Mulkey knew enough to get out..

---

Mulkey didn't like it when she couldn't dictate where the new arena went, she got a significantly better financial offer, and it was the right call to wish her well. She had no difficulty winning a national title "under this guy."

You are arguing that our men's basketball program is "mediocre to bad" "under this guy." They won a national championship "under this guy" and could very easily have won two titles were it not for injuries. Scott Drew continues to do his thing, and it sure isn't "mediocre to bad." Our 2023 class is ranked 4th nationally. Please stop making a fool of yourself.

https://247sports.com/season/2023-basketball/overallteamrankings/

---

You seem to forget that we won during the COVID year. Counts, but not normal by any means.

Some would say Mulkey won in spite of this guy.

---

We were also the predicted top overall seed before COVID knocked out the 2020 tournament, "under this guy," and you are still arguing that our men's basketball program is mediocre to bad. You are making a fool of yourself.

Some would say a lot of things. Some would say that Mulkey won in spite of herself and that winning only one title with a generational talent in Brittany Griner was an indictment on her coaching.

---

Come on, you are saying since COVID tourney that the MBB team has met expectations? You are good with the last 3 years?

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

What grade would you give Rhodes?"

---

"D"

He may be a good administrator, he may identify talent, but something he does is breaking the system. . He had three programs that were B12 Champ or higher level and made them mediocre to bad. Why? Because

To me, it is the sign of a micro-manager, someone more concerned with the "how they do it" then "the results they get" BU will be mediocre or worst under this guy. I can't believe that Drew & CDA forgot how to coach. But coaching under prescriptive requirements could do it. Mulkey knew enough to get out..

---

Mulkey didn't like it when she couldn't dictate where the new arena went, she got a significantly better financial offer, and it was the right call to wish her well. She had no difficulty winning a national title "under this guy."

You are arguing that our men's basketball program is "mediocre to bad" "under this guy." They won a national championship "under this guy" and could very easily have won two titles were it not for injuries. Scott Drew continues to do his thing, and it sure isn't "mediocre to bad." Our 2023 class is ranked 4th nationally. Please stop making a fool of yourself.

https://247sports.com/season/2023-basketball/overallteamrankings/

---

You seem to forget that we won during the COVID year. Counts, but not normal by any means.

Some would say Mulkey won in spite of this guy.

---

We were also the predicted top overall seed before COVID knocked out the 2020 tournament, "under this guy," and you are still arguing that our men's basketball program is mediocre to bad. You are making a fool of yourself.

Some would say a lot of things. Some would say that Mulkey won in spite of herself and that winning only one title with a generational talent in Brittany Griner was an indictment on her coaching.

---

Come on, you are saying since COVID tourney that the MBB team has met expectations? You are good with the last 3 years?

---

Since the last three years includes winning the national championship, yes, I am good with it.

Given the injuries to our 2021-2022 team, yes, I am fine with them losing in overtime to the national runner-up Tar Heels. A disappointing but reasonable result.

No one wins every year.

You are still arguing that Baylor's men's basketball program, which has a national championship in the last three years and the 4th ranked recruiting class nationally this year, is mediocre to bad. You are still making a fool of yourself.

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

What grade would you give Rhodes?"

---

"D"

He may be a good administrator, he may identify talent, but something he does is breaking the system. . He had three programs that were B12 Champ or higher level and made them mediocre to bad. Why? Because

To me, it is the sign of a micro-manager, someone more concerned with the "how they do it" then "the results they get" BU will be mediocre or worst under this guy. I can't believe that Drew & CDA forgot how to coach. But coaching under prescriptive requirements could do it. Mulkey knew enough to get out..

---

Mulkey didn't like it when she couldn't dictate where the new arena went, she got a significantly better financial offer, and it was the right call to wish her well. She had no difficulty winning a national title "under this guy."

You are arguing that our men's basketball program is "mediocre to bad" "under this guy." They won a national championship "under this guy" and could very easily have won two titles were it not for injuries. Scott Drew continues to do his thing, and it sure isn't "mediocre to bad." Our 2023 class is ranked 4th nationally. Please stop making a fool of yourself.

https://247sports.com/season/2023-basketball/overallteamrankings/

---

You seem to forget that we won during the COVID year. Counts, but not normal by any means.

Some would say Mulkey won in spite of this guy.

---

We were also the predicted top overall seed before COVID knocked out the 2020 tournament, "under this guy," and you are still arguing that our men's basketball program is mediocre to bad. You are making a fool of yourself.

Some would say a lot of things. Some would say that Mulkey won in spite of herself and that winning only one title with a generational talent in Brittany Griner was an indictment on her coaching.

---

Come on, you are saying since COVID tourney that the MBB team has met expectations? You are good with the last 3 years?

---

Since the last three years includes winning the national championship, yes, I am good with it.

Given the injuries to our 2021-2022 team, yes, I am fine with them losing in overtime to the national runner-up Tar Heels. A disappointing but reasonable result.

No one wins every year.

You are still arguing that Baylor's men's basketball program, which has a national championship in the last three years and the 4th ranked recruiting class nationally this year, is mediocre to bad. You are still making a fool of yourself.

---

Figured you would say that...

So, we are a MBB school. If that is our identity great. Rhodes is doing great. Drew has been a huge success, even though they cost me dearly in the last two tourneys... But, I agree. MBB is not the point of this conversation and I suspect you know it.

If that is the case, than we need to accept being a Creighton, Marquette or Seton Hall type school. Because without the FB money, that is what we are.

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

What grade would you give Rhodes?"

---

"D"

He may be a good administrator, he may identify talent, but something he does is breaking the system. . He had three programs that were B12 Champ or higher level and made them mediocre to bad. Why? Because

To me, it is the sign of a micro-manager, someone more concerned with the "how they do it" then "the results they get" BU will be mediocre or worst under this guy. I can't believe that Drew & CDA forgot how to coach. But coaching under prescriptive requirements could do it. Mulkey knew enough to get out..

---

Mulkey didn't like it when she couldn't dictate where the new arena went, she got a significantly better financial offer, and it was the right call to wish her well. She had no difficulty winning a national title "under this guy."

You are arguing that our men's basketball program is "mediocre to bad" "under this guy." They won a national championship "under this guy" and could very easily have won two titles were it not for injuries. Scott Drew continues to do his thing, and it sure isn't "mediocre to bad." Our 2023 class is ranked 4th nationally. Please stop making a fool of yourself.

https://247sports.com/season/2023-basketball/overallteamrankings/

---

You seem to forget that we won during the COVID year. Counts, but not normal by any means.

Some would say Mulkey won in spite of this guy.

---

We were also the predicted top overall seed before COVID knocked out the 2020 tournament, "under this guy," and you are still arguing that our men's basketball program is mediocre to bad. You are making a fool of yourself.

Some would say a lot of things. Some would say that Mulkey won in spite of herself and that winning only one title with a generational talent in Brittany Griner was an indictment on her coaching.

---

Come on, you are saying since COVID tourney that the MBB team has met expectations? You are good with the last 3 years?

---

Since the last three years includes winning the national championship, yes, I am good with it.

Given the injuries to our 2021-2022 team, yes, I am fine with them losing in overtime to the national runner-up Tar Heels. A disappointing but reasonable result.

No one wins every year.

You are still arguing that Baylor's men's basketball program, which has a national championship in the last three years and the 4th ranked recruiting class nationally this year, is mediocre to bad. You are still making a fool of yourself.

---

Figured you would say that...

So, we are a MBB school. If that is our identity great. Rhodes is doing great. Drew has been a huge success, even though they cost me dearly in the last two tourneys... But, I agree. MBB is not the point of this conversation and I suspect you know it.

If that is the case, than we need to accept being a Creighton, Marquette or Seton Hall type school. Because without the FB money, that is what we are.

---

Are you changing your position that our men's basketball program is "mediocre to bad?"

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

What grade would you give Rhodes?"

---

"D"

He may be a good administrator, he may identify talent, but something he does is breaking the system. . He had three programs that were B12 Champ or higher level and made them mediocre to bad. Why? Because

To me, it is the sign of a micro-manager, someone more concerned with the "how they do it" then "the results they get" BU will be mediocre or worst under this guy. I can't believe that Drew & CDA forgot how to coach. But coaching under prescriptive requirements could do it. Mulkey knew enough to get out..

---

Mulkey didn't like it when she couldn't dictate where the new arena went, she got a significantly better financial offer, and it was the right call to wish her well. She had no difficulty winning a national title "under this guy."

You are arguing that our men's basketball program is "mediocre to bad" "under this guy." They won a national championship "under this guy" and could very easily have won two titles were it not for injuries. Scott Drew continues to do his thing, and it sure isn't "mediocre to bad." Our 2023 class is ranked 4th nationally. Please stop making a fool of yourself.

https://247sports.com/season/2023-basketball/overallteamrankings/

---

You seem to forget that we won during the COVID year. Counts, but not normal by any means.

Some would say Mulkey won in spite of this guy.

---

We were also the predicted top overall seed before COVID knocked out the 2020 tournament, "under this guy," and you are still arguing that our men's basketball program is mediocre to bad. You are making a fool of yourself.

Some would say a lot of things. Some would say that Mulkey won in spite of herself and that winning only one title with a generational talent in Brittany Griner was an indictment on her coaching.

---

Come on, you are saying since COVID tourney that the MBB team has met expectations? You are good with the last 3 years?

---

Since the last three years includes winning the national championship, yes, I am good with it.

Given the injuries to our 2021-2022 team, yes, I am fine with them losing in overtime to the national runner-up Tar Heels. A disappointing but reasonable result.

No one wins every year.

You are still arguing that Baylor's men's basketball program, which has a national championship in the last three years and the 4th ranked recruiting class nationally this year, is mediocre to bad. You are still making a fool of yourself.

---

Figured you would say that...

So, we are a MBB school. If that is our identity great. Rhodes is doing great. Drew has been a huge success, even though they cost me dearly in the last two tourneys... But, I agree. MBB is not the point of this conversation and I suspect you know it.

If that is the case, than we need to accept being a Creighton, Marquette or Seton Hall type school. Because without the FB money, that is what we are.

---

Are you changing your position that our men's basketball program is "mediocre to bad?"

---

Didn't I say that? I said I agree with you. Are you like my wife?

"I'm stupid, you're smart. You were right, I was wrong. You're the best, I'm the worst. Er . . . You're very good-looking, I'm not attractive"



Better?

Now, Football, WBB, Baseball...

Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

IowaBear said:

---

Better off how? We now have a "yes sir" coach. After all that's what Mack wants. Mack's who won't allow anything but coaches who will constantly bow down to him. Arabda and Collen fit that mold perfectly. Not a knock on either per se

---

Women's basketball is not a profit center.
Money is finite.
Mulkey was expensive.
Collen is less so.

---

That's true. Is there a way to drop WBB altogether and find a cheaper way to comply with Title IX?

The argument that Collen is cheaper than Mulkey and that WBB has a ceiling is a legit argument. I think it ignores a lot of pretty important things -- e.g. Mulkey's popularity with the alumni base, the visibility of winning NCs, the context in which we stunk at everything until Mulkey started winning, the extent to which she was a big cheerleader for Baylor in general (which backfired on her during Briles gate)... So, in the end, I don't think it's a winning argument. I also think if you're going to be mediocre at WBB there's not a lot of reason to do it. The extension to "let's find a cheaper way to comply with TItle IX" flows pretty easily from that.

---

I haven't seen any evidence that Collen won't be successful.

D. C. Bear said:

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Robert Wilson said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

IowaBear said:

---

Better off how? We now have a "yes sir" coach. After all that's what Mack wants. Mack's who won't allow anything but coaches who will constantly bow down to him. Arabda and Collen fit that mold perfectly. Not a knock on either per se

---

Women's basketball is not a profit center.
Money is finite.
Mulkey was expensive.
Collen is less so.

---

That's true. Is there a way to drop WBB altogether and find a cheaper way to comply with Title IX?

The argument that Collen is cheaper than Mulkey and that WBB has a ceiling is a legit argument. I think it ignores a lot of pretty important things -- e.g. Mulkey's popularity with the alumni base, the visibility of winning NCs, the context in which we stunk at everything until Mulkey started winning, the extent to which she was a big cheerleader for Baylor in general (which backfired on her during Briles gate)... So, in the end, I don't think it's a winning argument. I also think if you're going to be mediocre at WBB there's not a lot of reason to do it. The extension to "let's find a cheaper way to comply with TItle IX" flows pretty easily from that.

---

I haven't seen any evidence that Collen won't be successful.

---

I've seen a fair amount of evidence indicating that she won't be successful enough for it to matter.

Meanwhile, Mulkey strolls into Baton Rouge and already wins another NC.

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

What grade would you give Rhodes?"

---

"D"

He may be a good administrator, he may identify talent, but something he does is breaking the system. . He had three programs that were B12 Champ or higher level and made them mediocre to bad. Why? Because

To me, it is the sign of a micro-manager, someone more concerned with the "how they do it" then "the results they get" BU will be mediocre or worst under this guy. I can't believe that Drew & CDA forgot how to coach. But coaching under prescriptive requirements could do it. Mulkey knew enough to get out..

---

Mulkey didn't like it when she couldn't dictate where the new arena went, she got a significantly better financial offer, and it was the right call to wish her well. She had no difficulty winning a national title "under this guy."

You are arguing that our men's basketball program is "mediocre to bad" "under this guy." They won a national championship "under this guy" and could very easily have won two titles were it not for injuries. Scott Drew continues to do his thing, and it sure isn't "mediocre to bad." Our 2023 class is ranked 4th nationally. Please stop making a fool of yourself.

https://247sports.com/season/2023-basketball/overallteamrankings/

---

You seem to forget that we won during the COVID year. Counts, but not normal by any means.

Some would say Mulkey won in spite of this guy.

---

We were also the predicted top overall seed before COVID knocked out the 2020 tournament, "under this guy," and you are still arguing that our men's basketball program is mediocre to bad. You are making a fool of yourself.

Some would say a lot of things. Some would say that Mulkey won in spite of herself and that winning only one title with a generational talent in Brittany Griner was an indictment on her coaching.

---

Come on, you are saying since COVID tourney that the MBB team has met expectations? You are good with the last 3 years?

---

Since the last three years includes winning the national championship, yes, I am good with it.

Given the injuries to our 2021-2022 team, yes, I am fine with them losing in overtime to the national runner-up Tar Heels. A disappointing but reasonable result.

No one wins every year.

You are still arguing that Baylor's men's basketball program, which has a national championship in the last three years and the 4th ranked recruiting class nationally this year, is mediocre to bad. You are still making a fool of yourself.

---

Figured you would say that...

So, we are a MBB school. If that is our identity great. Rhodes is doing great. Drew has been a huge success, even though they cost me dearly in the last two tourneys... But, I agree. MBB is not the point of this conversation and I suspect you know it.

If that is the case, than we need to accept being a Creighton, Marquette or Seton Hall type school. Because without the FB money, that is what we are.

---

Are you changing your position that our men's basketball program is "mediocre to bad?"

---

Didn't I say that? I said I agree with you. Are you like my wife?

"I'm stupid, you're smart. You were right, I was wrong. You're the best, I'm the worst. Er . . . You're very good-looking, I'm not attractive"



Better?

Now, Football, WBB, Baseball...

---

Just confirming that you are moving on from that idiocy. A "yes" or "no" would suffice. One does not need to be smart or the best or good looking to note that Baylor's basketball program is not "mediocre to bad."

Baseball: We have yet to see how ADMR's hire will do in baseball. We should give Mitch more than one season since Mitch does have a history of success.

WBB is fine, and largely irrelevant. We continue to bring in high-level players, we have a competent coach.

Football nationally is in transition with NIL and the portal. Baylor is adapting to that reality. Some may complain that ADMR didn't react fast enough, but Baylor is doing fine in the NIL area now. I expect we may see a GM-style position for football, it has been discussed for some time. In any event, our recruiting has not slipped according to national rankings.

We have evidence that Aranda can take a team to a very high level (Conference title, Sugar Bowl win) and we have evidence that he is self aware and adaptable. I am not willing to conclude that his hiring is a bust at this point. History tells us it is too early in the process to make a definitive judgment.

BTW. if Scott Drew's Bears cost you "dearly," it was because betting on the NCAA tournament is not a good investment strategy, not because ADMR is bad at his job.

Rhoades was once a good AD. Now I see him as a walking bag of ego whose two skills are cashing paychecks and making poor excuses for our fall from championship contention.

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

What grade would you give Rhodes?"

---

"D"

He may be a good administrator, he may identify talent, but something he does is breaking the system. . He had three programs that were B12 Champ or higher level and made them mediocre to bad. Why? Because

To me, it is the sign of a micro-manager, someone more concerned with the "how they do it" then "the results they get" BU will be mediocre or worst under this guy. I can't believe that Drew & CDA forgot how to coach. But coaching under prescriptive requirements could do it. Mulkey knew enough to get out..

---

Mulkey didn't like it when she couldn't dictate where the new arena went, she got a significantly better financial offer, and it was the right call to wish her well. She had no difficulty winning a national title "under this guy."

You are arguing that our men's basketball program is "mediocre to bad" "under this guy." They won a national championship "under this guy" and could very easily have won two titles were it not for injuries. Scott Drew continues to do his thing, and it sure isn't "mediocre to bad." Our 2023 class is ranked 4th nationally. Please stop making a fool of yourself.

https://247sports.com/season/2023-basketball/overallteamrankings/

---

You seem to forget that we won during the COVID year. Counts, but not normal by any means.

Some would say Mulkey won in spite of this guy.

---

We were also the predicted top overall seed before COVID knocked out the 2020 tournament, "under this guy," and you are still arguing that our men's basketball program is mediocre to bad. You are making a fool of yourself.

Some would say a lot of things. Some would say that Mulkey won in spite of herself and that winning only one title with a generational talent in Brittany Griner was an indictment on her coaching.

---

Come on, you are saying since COVID tourney that the MBB team has met expectations? You are good with the last 3 years?

---

Since the last three years includes winning the national championship, yes, I am good with it.

Given the injuries to our 2021-2022 team, yes, I am fine with them losing in overtime to the national runner-up Tar Heels. A disappointing but reasonable result.

No one wins every year.

You are still arguing that Baylor's men's basketball program, which has a national championship in the last three years and the 4th ranked recruiting class nationally this year, is mediocre to bad. You are still making a fool of yourself.

---

Figured you would say that...

So, we are a MBB school. If that is our identity great. Rhodes is doing great. Drew has been a huge success, even though they cost me dearly in the last two tourneys... But, I agree. MBB is not the point of this conversation and I suspect you know it.

If that is the case, than we need to accept being a Creighton, Marquette or Seton Hall type school. Because without the FB money, that is what we are.

---

Are you changing your position that our men's basketball program is "mediocre to bad?"

---

Didn't I say that? I said I agree with you. Are you like my wife?

"I'm stupid, you're smart. You were right, I was wrong. You're the best, I'm the worst. Er . . . You're very good-looking, I'm not attractive"



Better?

Now, Football, WBB, Baseball...

---

Just confirming that you are moving on from that idiocy. A "yes" or "no" would suffice. One does not need to be smart or the best or good looking to note that Baylor's basketball program is not "mediocre to bad."

---

Don't sell yourself short...

Wait, not winning WBB national championships is better? Not having nationally televised WBB games is better? Let's table that.

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

What grade would you give Rhodes?"

---

"D"

He may be a good administrator, he may identify talent, but something he does is breaking the system. . He had three programs that were B12 Champ or higher level and made them mediocre to bad. Why? Because

To me, it is the sign of a micro-manager, someone more concerned with the "how they do it" then "the results they get" BU will be mediocre or worst under this guy. I can't believe that Drew & CDA forgot how to coach. But coaching under prescriptive requirements could do it. Mulkey knew enough to get out..

---

Mulkey didn't like it when she couldn't dictate where the new arena went, she got a significantly better financial offer, and it was the right call to wish her well. She had no difficulty winning a national title "under this guy."

You are arguing that our men's basketball program is "mediocre to bad" "under this guy." They won a national championship "under this guy" and could very easily have won two titles were it not for injuries. Scott Drew continues to do his thing, and it sure isn't "mediocre to bad." Our 2023 class is ranked 4th nationally. Please stop making a fool of yourself.

https://247sports.com/season/2023-basketball/overallteamrankings/

---

You seem to forget that we won during the COVID year. Counts, but not normal by any means.

Some would say Mulkey won in spite of this guy.

---

We were also the predicted top overall seed before COVID knocked out the 2020 tournament, "under this guy," and you are still arguing that our men's basketball program is mediocre to bad. You are making a fool of yourself.

Some would say a lot of things. Some would say that Mulkey won in spite of herself and that winning only one title with a generational talent in Brittany Griner was an indictment on her coaching.

---

Come on, you are saying since COVID tourney that the MBB team has met expectations? You are good with the last 3 years?

---

Since the last three years includes winning the national championship, yes, I am good with it.

Given the injuries to our 2021-2022 team, yes, I am fine with them losing in overtime to the national runner-up Tar Heels. A disappointing but reasonable result.

No one wins every year.

You are still arguing that Baylor's men's basketball program, which has a national championship in the last three years and the 4th ranked recruiting class nationally this year, is mediocre to bad. You are still making a fool of yourself.

---

Figured you would say that...

So, we are a MBB school. If that is our identity great. Rhodes is doing great. Drew has been a huge success, even though they cost me dearly in the last two tourneys... But, I agree. MBB is not the point of this conversation and I suspect you know it.

If that is the case, than we need to accept being a Creighton, Marquette or Seton Hall type school. Because without the FB money, that is what we are.

---

Are you changing your position that our men's basketball program is "mediocre to bad?"

---

Didn't I say that? I said I agree with you. Are you like my wife?

"I'm stupid, you're smart. You were right, I was wrong. You're the best, I'm the worst. Er . . . You're very good-looking, I'm not attractive"



Better?

Now, Football, WBB, Baseball...

---

Just confirming that you are moving on from that idiocy. A "yes" or "no" would suffice. One does not need to be smart or the best or good looking to note that Baylor's basketball program is not "mediocre to bad."

---

Don't sell yourself short...

---

Indeed, being smart and the best and good looking does not prevent one from properly evaluating the state of the Baylor basketball program, which is elite.

Just to be clear, how much credit does Rhoades get for hiring Scott Drew?

Oldbear83 said:

---

Just to be clear, how much credit does Rhoades get for hiring Scott Drew?

---

zero,zip,nada. So far he is at a C- heading for a F. Check that, his response or lack there of, to the 2013 team bumps him to a D

Killing Floor said:

---

Wait, not winning WBB national championships is better? Not having nationally televised WBB games is better? Let's table that.

---

Coach Mulkey won the national title three times (or was it four?) in about 18 or so seasons. Could have easily been more if refs didn't call fouls on what would be misdemeanor assault in the arena lobby. Nevertheless, I think 3.6 million a year, which is what her contract is at LSU, is overpaying for WBB.

Overpaying for WBB and winning an occasional national championship may not be better than winning at a slightly lower level and not overpaying. In any event, there's no evidence we won't win the national championship in WBB as we are still bringing in players. Additionally, nationally televised women's games don't really move the needle much when you have men's basketball and football.

Given all of that, I would say letting her walk away was the right call.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Just to be clear, how much credit does Rhoades get for hiring Scott Drew?

---

Just to be clearer, the question wasn't whether he hired Drew, the question was what is better since his arrival.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Just to be clear, how much credit does Rhoades get for hiring Scott Drew?

---

Just to be clearer, the question wasn't whether he hired Drew, the question was what is better since his arrival.

---

Brother in law??

FLBear5630 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Just to be clear, how much credit does Rhoades get for hiring Scott Drew?

---

Just to be clearer, the question wasn't whether he hired Drew, the question was what is better since his arrival.

---

Brother in law??

---

No, never met the man. I just find unsupported claims annoying. Did he steal your girlfriend in high school?