My gut tells me we've done a complete flip flop. Went from the best offense in the country with a defense that was good enough to get a few stops, to one of the best defenses in the country with an offense that has been sporadic.

I'm having trouble deciding who would win.

no.

The 13/14 teams were the best we ever had.

Seeming UCF and WVU beat those teams you bet your ass the 2019 Baylor Bears could.

OldBurlyBear86 said:

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no.

The 13/14 teams were the best we ever had.

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I'd have to say the first half of 15 was the best we ever had, but possibly the first half of 13 could have given them a run for their money. Injuries killed our chances for National glory.

Baylor in those days was one or two QB injuries away from the title. I think this team would slow down Briles offense but the 2019 offense couldn't keep trading scores for a whole game with those teams.

Ursus Americanus said:

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Seeming UCF and WVU beat those teams you bet your ass the 2019 Baylor Bears could.

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That UCF team would curb stomp us. We haven't played an elite QB yet. We used to play a few a season

hodedofome said:

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OldBurlyBear86 said:

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no.

The 13/14 teams were the best we ever had.

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I'd have to say the first half of 15 was the best we ever had, but possibly the first half of 13 could have given them a run for their money. Injuries killed our chances for National glory.

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If Seth Russell didn't crack his neck..I think he would have gone to New York for Heisman ceremony. He had like what? 36 total tds in 7 games?

Bayloruniversity said:

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hodedofome said:

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OldBurlyBear86 said:

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no.

The 13/14 teams were the best we ever had.

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I'd have to say the first half of 15 was the best we ever had, but possibly the first half of 13 could have given them a run for their money. Injuries killed our chances for National glory.

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If Seth Russell didn't crack his neck..I think he would have gone to New York for Heisman ceremony. He had like what? 36 total tds in 7 games?

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His run game was un-defendable. Way too quick, fast and strong for a white dude.

The real comparison would be, will CMR's 6th and 7th year at Baylor teams be better than CABs 13 & 14 teams?

hodedofome said:

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Bayloruniversity said:

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hodedofome said:

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OldBurlyBear86 said:

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no.

The 13/14 teams were the best we ever had.

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I'd have to say the first half of 15 was the best we ever had, but possibly the first half of 13 could have given them a run for their money. Injuries killed our chances for National glory.

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If Seth Russell didn't crack his neck..I think he would have gone to New York for Heisman ceremony. He had like what? 36 total tds in 7 games?

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His run game was un-defendable. Way too quick, fast and strong for a white dude.

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Though he wasn't the most accurate he could sling it. Not to mention that was the year Corey Coleman made everyone look silly until he got a hernia. He could have had 30 touchdown catches that year if Seth stayed healthy and didn't have the sports hernia.

RedBear05 said:

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The real comparison would be, will CMR's 6th and 7th year at Baylor teams be better than CABs 13 & 14 teams?

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In Briles' defense he was starting from nothing. Horrid facilities, 15 years of failure and a fan base that had left. Although the scandal was a nuclear bomb of sorts, we still had the name, several 4* recruits and facilities to build from.

clubhi said:

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Ursus Americanus said:

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Seeming UCF and WVU beat those teams you bet your ass the 2019 Baylor Bears could.

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That UCF team would curb stomp us. We haven't played an elite QB yet. We used to play a few a season

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Ok...

hodedofome said:

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OldBurlyBear86 said:

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no.

The 13/14 teams were the best we ever had.

---

I'd have to say the first half of 15 was the best we ever had, but possibly the first half of 13 could have given them a run for their money. Injuries killed our chances for National glory.

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Maybe, but we had our share of struggles against weaker teams in 2015. In the first quarter against Lamar, the defense had some difficulties & Seth Russell threw 4 INT's; then we thoroughly dominated in the rest of the game. There were some issues in other games as well. But the team matured & gelled into a powerful force that won 10 games, had our 2nd ever win in Manhattan with a true freshman QB (Stidham) getting his first start and our first win in Stillwater since 1939 with Stidham starting again & then Chris Johnson taking over in the 2nd half to seal the win. This team also took the wild bear (not wildcat) to new levels in the RAB with 5 players taking snaps & setting records for most rushing yards in a bowl game (645).

It was a great team and a great year despite the injuries but also pure speculation that they would have been better than 2013-14.

Briles teams were exciting and had great offenses. But if you threw a wrench into the offensive engine, it could completely break down. UCF, West Virginia, UT a couple times, one half of Michigan St., A&M. And if the offense slowed down, the defense would fall apart.

I'm convinced our defense now could play with almost anyone. Our offense is pretty awful but so was Bennett's defense. It would honestly be a coin flip.

Michigan State was only the 4th quarter. If the game had ended after the 3rd, we would have had a huge win.

Ursus Americanus said:

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Seeming UCF and WVU beat those teams you bet your ass the 2019 Baylor Bears could.

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Come on. Petty was a better quarterback and that is not taking anything away from Brewer. The question is if the 2019 defense could hold back the Petty offense. I lean Petty but your logic for Brewer is knee jerk.

Petty never lost to to OU or UT.

GrowlTowel said:

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Ursus Americanus said:

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Seeming UCF and WVU beat those teams you bet your ass the 2019 Baylor Bears could.

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Come on. Petty was a better quarterback and that is not taking anything away from Brewer. The question is if the 2019 defense could hold back the Petty offense. I lean Petty but your logic for Brewer is knee jerk.

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Pretty clear that a team that can lose to UCF or WVU is very much capable of losing to the potential 2019 Big 12 champs.

GrowlTowel said:

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Ursus Americanus said:

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Seeming UCF and WVU beat those teams you bet your ass the 2019 Baylor Bears could.

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Come on. Petty was a better quarterback and that is not taking anything away from Brewer. The question is if the 2019 defense could hold back the Petty offense. I lean Petty but your logic for Brewer is knee jerk.

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Petty was for sure better. But the hurry up offense was a blessing and a curse. We either scored in 2 minutes or did a quick 3 and out. Despite having a great offensive line and RBs, we never were able to slow the game down and grind out the win. I still remember playing WV and getting ahead like 45-3 at halftime and the final score was like 70-45.

Those Briles teams were great but they could absolutely fall apart and fall apart quickly if the offense had an off day.

If we could have had this defense back then, man.... We'd have a natty.

Also OU now is better than OU 2011-2015. Those OU teams were good not great (avg of 10 wins a year). Landry Jones, Trevor Knight and Blake Bell were not quite Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray or Jalen Hurts.

Ursus Americanus said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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Ursus Americanus said:

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Seeming UCF and WVU beat those teams you bet your ass the 2019 Baylor Bears could.

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Come on. Petty was a better quarterback and that is not taking anything away from Brewer. The question is if the 2019 defense could hold back the Petty offense. I lean Petty but your logic for Brewer is knee jerk.

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Pretty clear that a team that can lose to UCF or WVU is very much capable of losing to the potential 2019 Big 12 champs.

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Petty never lost to OU or UT. Going to need some other stats to support your argument. Can the 2019 team hold back Petty's offense? UCF didn't. WV did.

BearTruth13 said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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Ursus Americanus said:

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Seeming UCF and WVU beat those teams you bet your ass the 2019 Baylor Bears could.

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Come on. Petty was a better quarterback and that is not taking anything away from Brewer. The question is if the 2019 defense could hold back the Petty offense. I lean Petty but your logic for Brewer is knee jerk.

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Petty was for sure better. But the hurry up offense was a blessing and a curse. We either scored in 2 minutes or did a quick 3 and out. Despite having a great offensive line and RBs, we never were able to slow the game down and grind out the win. I still remember playing WV and getting ahead like 45-3 at halftime and the final score was like 70-45.

Those Briles teams were great but they could absolutely fall apart and fall apart quickly if the offense had an off day.

If we could have had this defense back then, man.... We'd have a natty.

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100% agree.

2014 bears win 35-20.

I'll take Briles offense with Rhule's defense.

hodedofome said:

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OldBurlyBear86 said:

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no.

The 13/14 teams were the best we ever had.

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I'd have to say the first half of 15 was the best we ever had, but possibly the first half of 13 could have given them a run for their money. Injuries killed our chances for National glory.

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Yes, I think this team could compete with the '13 and '14 teams on any given day.

A healthy 2015 team could've won the national championship. They were the most talented and well coached Baylor team we've ever had. (This Rhule team winning out could change my mind though in regards to coaching)

The fact that we beat UNC with a completely new offense and basically w/out a QB, makes it one of the most impressive bowl victories in NCAA history.

Buddha Bear said:

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hodedofome said:

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OldBurlyBear86 said:

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no.

The 13/14 teams were the best we ever had.

---

I'd have to say the first half of 15 was the best we ever had, but possibly the first half of 13 could have given them a run for their money. Injuries killed our chances for National glory.

---

Yes, I think this team could compete with the '13 and '14 teams on any given day.

A healthy 2015 team could've won the national championship. They were the most talented and well coached Baylor team we've ever had. (This Rhule team winning out could change my mind though)

The fact that we beat UNC with a completely new offense and basically w/out a QB, makes it one of the most impressive bowl victories in NCAA history.

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First half of 2015 (until Russell got hurt) looked truly special.

Still don't understand how everyone was so in awe of our wildcat offense. That season we had 2 1000 yard RBs (Linwood and Jefferson) and 2 500 yard RBs (Chafin and Williams). Heck we averaged 330 yards/game (and 6 yards/carry) on the ground. And had one of the best offensive lines in the country. With no functional QB, we should have done a direct snap to the running back group starting in the TCU game that year. I'm glad they figured it out but it took about a game and a half too long.

hodedofome said:

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Bayloruniversity said:

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hodedofome said:

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OldBurlyBear86 said:

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no.

The 13/14 teams were the best we ever had.

---

I'd have to say the first half of 15 was the best we ever had, but possibly the first half of 13 could have given them a run for their money. Injuries killed our chances for National glory.

---

If Seth Russell didn't crack his neck..I think he would have gone to New York for Heisman ceremony. He had like what? 36 total tds in 7 games?

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His run game was un-defendable. Way too quick, fast and strong for a white dude.

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Naw, always have been quick fast white dudes. He was tough as they come though, which finally caught up with him.

GrowlTowel said:

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Ursus Americanus said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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Ursus Americanus said:

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Seeming UCF and WVU beat those teams you bet your ass the 2019 Baylor Bears could.

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Come on. Petty was a better quarterback and that is not taking anything away from Brewer. The question is if the 2019 defense could hold back the Petty offense. I lean Petty but your logic for Brewer is knee jerk.

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Pretty clear that a team that can lose to UCF or WVU is very much capable of losing to the potential 2019 Big 12 champs.

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Petty never lost to OU or UT. Going to need some other stats to support your argument. Can the 2019 team hold back Petty's offense? UCF didn't. WV did.

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What's your point? You're just being argumentative.

OU in 2013 was Qbed by the inept Blake Bell and in 2014 by the one game wonder Trevor Knight, nothing about them compares to the Lincoln Riley era teams or the quarterbacking of Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, and Jalen Hurts.

Ut also sucked in 2013 and 2014, Qbed by Case McCoy and Tyrone Swoopes, as underwhelming as they are now they are a lot more talented and have their best QB since Colt McCoy.

The 2019 Baylor team has lost one winnable game against an elite opponent they will face again.

The 2013 Bears got their butts kicked by a top ten opponent in OSU and embarrassed by an underdog in UCF.

And the 2014 team was embarrassed by an unranked opponent and blew a 20 point fourth quarter lead to an underdog in the Cotton Bowl.

The 2019 Bears are never out of any game and are more than capable of beating a team like the Briles era teams were, they're also a lot better than anyone those teams lost to or any UT or OU team they faced.

Anyone who thinks this team couldn't beat our 2013 or 2014 teams is clueless. The way the question is phrased, the answer is unequivocally yes.

Now if the question is whether this team is better than our 2013 or 2014...that is an entirely different question.

BearTruth13 said:

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Petty was for sure better. But the hurry up offense was a blessing and a curse. We either scored in 2 minutes or did a quick 3 and out. Despite having a great offensive line and RBs, we never were able to slow the game down and grind out the win. I still remember playing WV and getting ahead like 45-3 at halftime and the final score was like 70-45.

Those Briles teams were great but they could absolutely fall apart and fall apart quickly if the offense had an off day.

If we could have had this defense back then, man.... We'd have a natty.

Also OU now is better than OU 2011-2015. Those OU teams were good not great (avg of 10 wins a year). Landry Jones, Trevor Knight and Blake Bell were not quite Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray or Jalen Hurts.

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Briles's offenses were capable of slowing things down & controlling the clock. The best example is the 4th quarter of the 2012 K State game in which both O & D did a magnificent job in making sure we beat #1. But that was Nick Florence, not Bryce Petty. IIRC, we had a few of those kinds of drives in 2014-15; I just don't remember which specific games. I'm pretty sure it did not happen in the most important games of 2014 (TCU, K State, MSU). It did in the OU & Texas games in 2013, just not as dramatically.

However, point is well taken.

BearTruth13 said:

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First half of 2015 (until Russell got hurt) looked truly special.

Still don't understand how everyone was so in awe of our wildcat offense. That season we had 2 1000 yard RBs (Linwood and Jefferson) and 2 500 yard RBs (Chafin and Williams). Heck we averaged 330 yards/game (and 6 yards/carry) on the ground. And had one of the best offensive lines in the country. With no functional QB, we should have done a direct snap to the running back group starting in the TCU game that year. I'm glad they figured it out but it took about a game and a half too long.

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I wouldn't use the word "awe". It's acknowledging an impressive accomplishment but not necessarily to that degree. I also wish the could have figured it out a few quarters earlier.

ImABearToo said:

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Baylor in those days was one or two QB injuries away from the title. I think this team would slow down Briles offense but the 2019 offense couldn't keep trading scores for a whole game with those teams.

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This. Rhule has built a solid team, but not a conference champion or national championship contender. That's where the Baylor program was when the BOR flushed it.

Obviously the teams would win and lose against each other. The more interesting question is what percentage of the games one team might beat the other.

applemacg4 said:

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ImABearToo said:

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Baylor in those days was one or two QB injuries away from the title. I think this team would slow down Briles offense but the 2019 offense couldn't keep trading scores for a whole game with those teams.

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This. Rhule has built a solid team, but not a conference champion or national championship contender. That's where the Baylor program was when the BOR flushed it.

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Rhule is one win away from a conference championship.

I don't see us as a national contender in 2019. Maybe in 2020 or 2021....

applemacg4 said:

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ImABearToo said:

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Baylor in those days was one or two QB injuries away from the title. I think this team would slow down Briles offense but the 2019 offense couldn't keep trading scores for a whole game with those teams.

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This. Rhule has built a solid team, but not a conference champion or national championship contender. That's where the Baylor program was when the BOR flushed it.

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You do know we're in the Big 12 Championship Game, right? And 10-1. By default that's contending for a Conference Championship right there. Or have you still not paid attention to the team?

historian said:

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I don't see us as a national contender in 2019. Maybe in 2020 or 2021....

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Agreed. The pieces are there, but CMR is still building.