You have to project what Houston's turnout would be with a stronger schedule, and with more teams that would travel. It would likely be a pretty significant bump, probably edging up to Baylor and TCU levels if you look at the actual numbers I posted earlier.

People get caught up in what some team's record was in a much weaker conference, and what their attendance is in a meh league playing mostly teams that have no interest in crossing several states. They don't get the big picture. You get back to more natural rivalries and a conference that carries a lot more gravitas and you're gonna see what they can be in a different league.

Dia del DougO said:

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You have to project what Houston's turnout would be with a stronger schedule, and with more teams that would travel. It would likely be a pretty significant bump, probably edging up to Baylor and TCU levels if you look at the actual numbers I posted earlier.

People get caught up in what some team's record was in a much weaker conference, and what their attendance is in a meh league playing mostly teams that have no interest in crossing several states. They don't get the big picture. You get back to more natural rivalries and a conference that carries a lot more gravitas and you're gonna see what they can be in a different league.

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UofH attendance average for 2014-2019. This includes their peach bowl year and run for a playoff spot.

2014- 28,311
2015- 33,980
2016- 38,953
2017- 32,583
2018- 29,838
2019- 26,540

They are not going to substantially improve that playing in the Big 12. Did Louisville or Utah or TCU experience a major attendance jump in attendance when they joined a power conference? No. Houston won't be any different when it come to attendance.

Add BYU and UCF right away

Guess I'll play too. I'm partial to Memphis if we are going back to 12 schools. Divisions for the "NEW XII" would look like this:

North:
BYU
CINCINNATI
IOWA STATE
KANSAS
KANSAS STATE
WEST VIRGINIA

South:
BAYLOR
MEMPHIS
OKLAHOMA STATE
TEXAS TECH
TCU
UCF

I don't understand why we haven't added two new teams to compete in 2025. Screw the two that are leaving. Do it now. Cincy for certain. I don't have that much passion for the other spot but I'm certainly not in favor of BYU. If BYU is the second choice of the majority I can live with it but prefer Memphis (Fedex Backing) over more Bibles.on bicycles.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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I don't understand why we haven't added two new teams to compete in 2025. Screw the two that are leaving. Do it now. Cincy for certain. I don't have that much passion for the other spot but I'm certainly not in favor of BYU. If BYU is the second choice of the majority I can live with it but prefer Memphis (Fedex Backing) over more Bibles.on bicycles.

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They should start competing ASAP not in 2025. Let them rack up some wins against ut and ou before they leave to increase their value for next to deal. Solidify conference now so transition easier when we add two more based on who is strongest then.

Ewalker80 said:

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Aliceinbubbleland said:

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I don't understand why we haven't added two new teams to compete in 2025. Screw the two that are leaving. Do it now. Cincy for certain. I don't have that much passion for the other spot but I'm certainly not in favor of BYU. If BYU is the second choice of the majority I can live with it but prefer Memphis (Fedex Backing) over more Bibles.on bicycles.

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They should start competing ASAP not in 2025. Let them rack up some wins against ut and ou before they leave to increase their value for next to deal. Solidify conference now so transition easier when we add two more based on who is strongest then.

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I agree but remember it is all about money and Baylor probably doesn't want to share a dime more than they have to with new members. Our athletic department budget is bloated and is going to have a serious challenge shortly. I seriously doubt Cincy and a partner would agree to come now and not get a reasonable cut of the pie before 2025. I was thinking along the lines of add them now in name and bring them in as full members in 2025.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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Method Man said:

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atomicblast said:

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You are idiots if we let U of H in. Houston can eclipse us if we give them the chance. I say we do the first two we know for sure which can boost us- UCF and BYU. We do Cincinnati to pair up with WVU. and lastly we go for a project- Colorado State.

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Yeah bro....lets just be a bunch of pu$$ies scared of competition.

We all know that the addition of TCU to the BIGXII caused our athletic department to crater......or maybe the added competition made the Baylor University Athletic Department reach heights that it had never done before.

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One could argue that adding TCU placed a ceiling on Baylor's recruiting.

As Tech fell, TCU was added and replaced Tech's spot on the recruiting map and TCU has since recruited better than both Baylor and Tech. According to 247's Team Talent Composite, TCU has 13 blue chip recruits and an average roster rating of 87.03, while Baylor has 12 blue chip recruits and an average roster rating of 85.79, and, if the better recruits between those two programs could have consolidated into a single program, that program would be able to be more valuable and potentially be more competitive against top tier competition. It's true that since 2012, TCU has had P5 wins against Stanford, Oregon, Ole Miss, Minnesota, Purdue, CAL, and Arkansas and Baylor has had P5 wins against UCLA, UNC, and Vanderbilt during the same period; however, both programs had losses to Georgia, TCU lost to LSU and Ohio State (among others) and Baylor lost to Michigan State and Duke (among others), so there was room for those programs to have been more competitive.

Adding Houston would likely further split the recruits that currently go to TCU and Baylor, and then also split the recruits the currently choose Tech, which has 5 blue chip recruits and an average roster rating of 84.65. This ignores that it would also impact Oklahoma State's recruiting as well.

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Who cares.

You cannot be scared of competition.

If we are scared of competition what is the point of being in the BIGXII?

The Baylor Athletic Department has accomplished amazing things since the addition of TCU. We cannot be scared of Houston.

Deep down a lot of you MOFOS are scared of the Houston Cougars.

If the BIGXII is going to survive we need big games from teams from the state of Texas.

Method Man said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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Method Man said:

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atomicblast said:

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You are idiots if we let U of H in. Houston can eclipse us if we give them the chance. I say we do the first two we know for sure which can boost us- UCF and BYU. We do Cincinnati to pair up with WVU. and lastly we go for a project- Colorado State.

---

Yeah bro....lets just be a bunch of pu$$ies scared of competition.

We all know that the addition of TCU to the BIGXII caused our athletic department to crater......or maybe the added competition made the Baylor University Athletic Department reach heights that it had never done before.

---

One could argue that adding TCU placed a ceiling on Baylor's recruiting.

As Tech fell, TCU was added and replaced Tech's spot on the recruiting map and TCU has since recruited better than both Baylor and Tech. According to 247's Team Talent Composite, TCU has 13 blue chip recruits and an average roster rating of 87.03, while Baylor has 12 blue chip recruits and an average roster rating of 85.79, and, if the better recruits between those two programs could have consolidated into a single program, that program would be able to be more valuable and potentially be more competitive against top tier competition. It's true that since 2012, TCU has had P5 wins against Stanford, Oregon, Ole Miss, Minnesota, Purdue, CAL, and Arkansas and Baylor has had P5 wins against UCLA, UNC, and Vanderbilt during the same period; however, both programs had losses to Georgia, TCU lost to LSU and Ohio State (among others) and Baylor lost to Michigan State and Duke (among others), so there was room for those programs to have been more competitive.

Adding Houston would likely further split the recruits that currently go to TCU and Baylor, and then also split the recruits the currently choose Tech, which has 5 blue chip recruits and an average roster rating of 84.65. This ignores that it would also impact Oklahoma State's recruiting as well.

---

Who cares.

You cannot be scared of competition.

If we are scared of competition what is the point of being in the BIGXII?

The Baylor Athletic Department has accomplished amazing things since the addition of TCU. We cannot be scared of Houston.

---

Yes. We dream of reaching the CFP. The CFP is reached only by playing and defeating tough opponents on a regular basis, not by catching lightning in a bottle or getting a lucky break every 5 to 10 years. If that's the "plan," a great many of us here will be long dead before BU reaches that dream, if ever. It's like in football, at least, we simply aren't up to getting past JGTBH.

canoso said:

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Method Man said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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Method Man said:

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atomicblast said:

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You are idiots if we let U of H in. Houston can eclipse us if we give them the chance. I say we do the first two we know for sure which can boost us- UCF and BYU. We do Cincinnati to pair up with WVU. and lastly we go for a project- Colorado State.

---

Yeah bro....lets just be a bunch of pu$$ies scared of competition.

We all know that the addition of TCU to the BIGXII caused our athletic department to crater......or maybe the added competition made the Baylor University Athletic Department reach heights that it had never done before.

---

One could argue that adding TCU placed a ceiling on Baylor's recruiting.

As Tech fell, TCU was added and replaced Tech's spot on the recruiting map and TCU has since recruited better than both Baylor and Tech. According to 247's Team Talent Composite, TCU has 13 blue chip recruits and an average roster rating of 87.03, while Baylor has 12 blue chip recruits and an average roster rating of 85.79, and, if the better recruits between those two programs could have consolidated into a single program, that program would be able to be more valuable and potentially be more competitive against top tier competition. It's true that since 2012, TCU has had P5 wins against Stanford, Oregon, Ole Miss, Minnesota, Purdue, CAL, and Arkansas and Baylor has had P5 wins against UCLA, UNC, and Vanderbilt during the same period; however, both programs had losses to Georgia, TCU lost to LSU and Ohio State (among others) and Baylor lost to Michigan State and Duke (among others), so there was room for those programs to have been more competitive.

Adding Houston would likely further split the recruits that currently go to TCU and Baylor, and then also split the recruits the currently choose Tech, which has 5 blue chip recruits and an average roster rating of 84.65. This ignores that it would also impact Oklahoma State's recruiting as well.

---

Who cares.

You cannot be scared of competition.

If we are scared of competition what is the point of being in the BIGXII?

The Baylor Athletic Department has accomplished amazing things since the addition of TCU. We cannot be scared of Houston.

---

Yes. We dream of reaching the CFP. The CFP is reached only by playing and defeating tough opponents on a regular basis, not by catching lightning in a bottle or getting a lucky break every 5 to 10 years. If that's the "plan," a great many of us here will be long dead before BU reaches that dream, if ever. It's like in football, at least, we simply aren't up to getting past JGTBH.

---

You know what my dream is?

Whose to say that A&M and Texas don't continue on their current trajectory of being mediocre 8-5 teams every year?

Why couldn't TCU-Baylor and Tech-Houston become the newest huge games in the state of Texas?
Who to say that 2014 and 2015 don't become the normal in Texas?

If these schools all come into their matchups with national rankings people in the major cities of Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio...etc will watch.

Playing in Houston every year is more beneficial for Baylor than playing in Boise, Idaho.
A lot of people are stuck on the past when it comes to UH, and not looking at the future.

I've posted over and over and over but posters like you will never agree with me. The problem with the State of Texas is there are too many schools recruiting top talent.

After the states top 100 athletes are cherry picked by top 10 annual powers the pickings become harder and harder. Adding another Texas school will dilute that talent futher.

FACT: The SWC never competed against national teams because we had so many people chasing our top 100. Without those you do not win nationally.

FACT: The Big 12 powers Nebraska, Oklahoma, aggy and UT had problems nationally because our top talent was pooched by mainly the tOSU's and Bama and LSU's.

FACT: UT and aggy will haul in most of the talent because they will be members of the best conference, money wise and exposure.

FACT: We had great teams under Briles but we stumbled nationally in the bowls against equal talent.

FACT: I hate the fact we consider Boise or BYU or even Cincy even though all of them deserve consideration. I always preferred the SWC round robin with our natural geographical rivals.

ps. Why is Bowlsby still employed?

I can be just as happy playing as a G5 with our regional rivals if we have to have a conference with teams 2000 miles apart. It just doesn't appeal to this fan but I guess it does to networks although I think they will be disappointed in the Boise vs. WVU type games.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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I've posted over and over and over but posters like you will never agree with me. The problem with the State of Texas is there are too many schools recruiting top talent.

After the states top 100 athletes are cherry picked by top 10 annual powers the pickings become harder and harder. Adding another Texas school will dilute that talent futher.

FACT: The SWC never competed against national teams because we had so many people chasing our top 100. Without those you do not win nationally.

FACT: The Big 12 powers Nebraska, Oklahoma, aggy and UT had problems nationally because our top talent was pooched by mainly the tOSU's and Bama and LSU's.

FACT: UT and aggy will haul in most of the talent because they will be members of the best conference, money wise and exposure.

FACT: We had great teams under Briles but we stumbled nationally in the bowls against equal talent.

FACT: I hate the fact we consider Boise or BYU or even Cincy even though all of them deserve consideration. I always preferred the SWC round robin with our natural geographical rivals.

ps. Why is Bowlsby still employed?

I can be just as happy playing as a G5 with our regional rivals if we have to have a conference with teams 2000 miles apart. It just doesn't appeal to this fan but I guess it does to networks although I think they will be disappointed in the Boise vs. WVU type games.

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What you fail to grasp is that the dilution of that talent is precisely why A&M hasn't won a conference title since 1998 and UT since 2009.

We already compete against UH for recruits. Might as well play them on the field. Schools from all over the country recruiting Texas athletes is no different than a school from California or Florida watching great players leave the state to play for Clemson, Ohio St or Alabama.

The SWC died for a lot of reasons. A lot of you seem stuck in the 80's and 90's in regards to schools and their perceived value.

UT and A&M are gone....and frankly we do not need them.

Quote:

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What you fail to grasp is that the dilution of that talent is precisely why A&M hasn't won a conference title since 1998 and UT since 2009.

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No, I didn't fail to grasp. That is exactly what I was trying to point out and it will be even more difficult. Look, there is no simple answer. Just keep fingers crossed we stay P5 and can afford to compete with the remainder of teams.

We attract better athletes in football than UH only because we are in Big 12. Put the two together and advantage needle goes to UH.

bossbowman said:

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May be totally wrong but I say Uconn because its a recognized brand and basketball. You may argue football but we have Kansas.

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Fresno State 45 UConn Zero last Saturday.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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Quote:

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What you fail to grasp is that the dilution of that talent is precisely why A&M hasn't won a conference title since 1998 and UT since 2009.

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No, I didn't fail to grasp. That is exactly what I was trying to point out and it will be even more difficult. Look, there is no simple answer. Just keep fingers crossed we stay P5 and can afford to compete with the remainder of teams.

We attract better athletes in football than UH only because we are in Big 12. Put the two together and advantage needle goes to UH.

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I really don't think you do.

UT & A&M getting a diluted share of Texas talent is exactly how we are able to compete against them.
UT & A&M are our rivals.

Top Texas talent leaving the state has always hurt UT and A&M.................not Baylor.

Your last sentence only confirms what I already know. You are scared of competing against the Houston Cougars.

Did the addition of TCU cause the Athletics Department at Baylor to crumble?.....or did we accomplish our biggest heights in athletic history because of the increased competition?

If TCU and Tech are Power 5 than Houston deserves to be in the same boat.

canoso said:

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Method Man said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

---

Method Man said:

---

atomicblast said:

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You are idiots if we let U of H in. Houston can eclipse us if we give them the chance. I say we do the first two we know for sure which can boost us- UCF and BYU. We do Cincinnati to pair up with WVU. and lastly we go for a project- Colorado State.

---

Yeah bro....lets just be a bunch of pu$$ies scared of competition.

We all know that the addition of TCU to the BIGXII caused our athletic department to crater......or maybe the added competition made the Baylor University Athletic Department reach heights that it had never done before.

---

One could argue that adding TCU placed a ceiling on Baylor's recruiting.

As Tech fell, TCU was added and replaced Tech's spot on the recruiting map and TCU has since recruited better than both Baylor and Tech. According to 247's Team Talent Composite, TCU has 13 blue chip recruits and an average roster rating of 87.03, while Baylor has 12 blue chip recruits and an average roster rating of 85.79, and, if the better recruits between those two programs could have consolidated into a single program, that program would be able to be more valuable and potentially be more competitive against top tier competition. It's true that since 2012, TCU has had P5 wins against Stanford, Oregon, Ole Miss, Minnesota, Purdue, CAL, and Arkansas and Baylor has had P5 wins against UCLA, UNC, and Vanderbilt during the same period; however, both programs had losses to Georgia, TCU lost to LSU and Ohio State (among others) and Baylor lost to Michigan State and Duke (among others), so there was room for those programs to have been more competitive.

Adding Houston would likely further split the recruits that currently go to TCU and Baylor, and then also split the recruits the currently choose Tech, which has 5 blue chip recruits and an average roster rating of 84.65. This ignores that it would also impact Oklahoma State's recruiting as well.

---

Who cares.

You cannot be scared of competition.

If we are scared of competition what is the point of being in the BIGXII?

The Baylor Athletic Department has accomplished amazing things since the addition of TCU. We cannot be scared of Houston.

---

Yes. We dream of reaching the CFP. The CFP is reached only by playing and defeating tough opponents on a regular basis, not by catching lightning in a bottle or getting a lucky break every 5 to 10 years. If that's the "plan," a great many of us here will be long dead before BU reaches that dream, if ever. It's like in football, at least, we simply aren't up to getting past JGTBH.

---

If the CFP either only expands to 8 with no champ auto-bids or only has autobids for 4 champs - which is possible with the reaction UT and OU moving to the SEC - how often would someone reasonably expect the Big 12 champion (post UT/OUT plus Houston, BYU, UCF, and Cincinnati) to make the playoffs?