I received confirmation from Gregg Glime through Austin Meek that this project is no longer a go and they are back to the drawing board.

I really liked the concept but it's just too big a project for Waco to handle right now. Hopefully they could get a modified version of this plan and take some baby steps to soemthing bigger down the road.

What about the river project?

PartyBear said:

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What about the river project?

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A building permit valued at $20.2 million has been secured by Catalyst Urban Development to place Brazos Promenade Apartments, a parking garage, a retail building and two Dumpster enclosures at 414 S. University Parks Drive, near the heart of the mixed-use development that backers have said would include a full-service hotel, restaurants, shopping venues and housing.

On the drawing board for years, Brazos Promenade has received a pledge of a more than $20 million Tax Increment Financing grant from Waco.

Information provided by the local office of the Associated General Contractors of America shows Catalyst Urban Development secured permits Jan. 14 to build on land at 407, 414 and 500 S. University Parks Drive, and at 90 and 121 Webster Ave. This stretch of property includes the vacant Waco Fire Department training station to be demolished for Brazos Promenade.

No word yet on when construction will start. The most recent start date officials provided passed months ago.

Thanks for the info.

UBBY what about the 350 acres at 340 and 35 across from the Central Texas Market place. A year ago a secret developer was getting tax breaks for all sorts of work to be done around the land including for infrastructure in a multi phase development of the land. The land had been bought by a mysterious shell corporation. It sounded like it was some kind of small Disney or Universal type development. Anyway the developer was later revealed as a local who was going to build an ax throwing facility on the land and maybe another movie theater. Anyhow no movement is occurring on the land. I thought the there were timelines for the various phases to be completed by as a condition of the tax deals. I thought the first phase had to be done by this summer in fact.

I also noticed the other day that the 635 acres across 35 from Hillcrest is for sale. Didnt the city buy that recently for industrial park?

PartyBear said:

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Thanks for the info.

UBBY what about the 350 acres at 340 and 35 across from the Central Texas Market place. A year ago a secret developer was getting tax breaks for all sorts of work to be done around the land including for infrastructure in a multi phase development of the land. The land had been bought by a mysterious shell corporation. It sounded like it was some kind of small Disney or Universal type development. Anyway the developer was later revealed as a local who was going to build an ax throwing facility on the land and maybe another movie theater. Anyhow no movement is occurring on the land. I thought the there were timelines for the various phases to be completed by as a condition of the tax deals. I thought the first phase had to be done by this summer in fact.

I also noticed the other day that the 635 acres across 35 from Hillcrest is for sale. Didnt the city buy that recently for industrial park?

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I don't know what the hold up is at that spot. Gregg Glime said that he expected it to get going this year. That was not confirmation by him but a guess.

The 635 acres was bought by the Waco Industrail Foundation 7 years ago. I haven't heard much about it since then. They were trying to mostly get industrial and commercial companies for the 500 acres and retail/entertainment for the other 135 acres.

Yes, that's going on almost 10 years now since these projects were first talked about.

The only project that has moved dirt is the Cinemark/Topgolf area behind Central Texas Marketplace but no plumbing work has started yet.

Yes but there was a "For Sale 635 acres" up on the land along the 35 frontage road this past weekend. That is why I asked. Is that just a sign the city put up to sell to companies to build in the industrial park? I assumed the city wanted to lease the land for that purpose but I don't know.

PartyBear said:

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Yes but there was a "For Sale 635 acres" up on the land along the 35 frontage road this past weekend. That is why I asked. Is that just a sign the city put up to sell to companies to build in the industrial park? I assumed the city wanted to lease the land for that purpose but I don't know.

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I'm not sure on that.

So random, stupid question for the experts.

It's so common for these developers to parade beautiful drawings around that never get completed. Do these developers have ways to monetize that part of the cycle or is that purely COGS?

Kyle said:

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So random, stupid question for the experts.

It's so common for these developers to parade beautiful drawings around that never get completed. Do these developers have ways to monetize that part of the cycle or is that purely COGS?

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That is an industry unto itself here in Las Vegas.

Kyle said:

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So random, stupid question for the experts.

It's so common for these developers to parade beautiful drawings around that never get completed. Do these developers have ways to monetize that part of the cycle or is that purely COGS?

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Pursuit cost. However, it's not ridiculously expensive to have renderings drawn up based on a concept. I'm sure some firms will give you a good deal on those things up front in hopes they earn the business should the project move forward.

UBBY said:

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I received confirmation from Gregg Glime through Austin Meek that this project is no longer a go and they are back to the drawing board.

I really liked the concept but it's just too big a project for Waco to handle right now. Hopefully they could get a modified version of this plan and take some baby steps to soemthing bigger down the road.

---

Remind me what the heritage square / civic center project was supposed to be please?

IASIP Rocks said:

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UBBY said:

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I received confirmation from Gregg Glime through Austin Meek that this project is no longer a go and they are back to the drawing board.

I really liked the concept but it's just too big a project for Waco to handle right now. Hopefully they could get a modified version of this plan and take some baby steps to soemthing bigger down the road.

---

Remind me what the heritage square / civic center project was supposed to be please?

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It was supposed to mainly be a set of buildings that would be mostly purposed for class A jobs. The 2 buildings for this purpose would've been the largest square foot buildings in waco. Those 2 would be built around an urban park.

There were other smaller buildings to be built, mainly living spaces. They would have also built a large underground parking garage. Also would have expanded the convention center.

Well that's certainly a bummer. But hearing that description I'm not terribly surprised it's dead. I just don't know if Waco has the job market to support something like that. I wish we did, and hope it's not a chicken or the egg thing between the employees/jobs and the needed real estate.

IASIP Rocks said:

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Well that's certainly a bummer. But hearing that description I'm not terribly surprised it's dead. I just don't know if Waco has the job market to support something like that. I wish we did, and hope it's not a chicken or the egg thing between the employees/jobs and the needed real estate.

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It would not necessarily have been just the local job market to support it. The word on the street was that a major corporation, i.e. one of the 2 largest telecom companies based in the US, was going to be the anchor tenant in the complex as a secondary/tertiary/regional corporate HQ. Benefits them because RE/development is cheaper in Waco than in Plano/Frisco/Round Rock/etc.

They would have brought upwards of 1500-2000 employees in for relocation. This is exactly what Waco needs to get over the hump. As John Fogerty once said, "looks like the plans fell through."

Interesting. Well, nuts.

trey3216 said:

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IASIP Rocks said:

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Well that's certainly a bummer. But hearing that description I'm not terribly surprised it's dead. I just don't know if Waco has the job market to support something like that. I wish we did, and hope it's not a chicken or the egg thing between the employees/jobs and the needed real estate.

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It would not necessarily have been just the local job market to support it. The word on the street was that a major corporation, i.e. one of the 2 largest telecom companies based in the US, was going to be the anchor tenant in the complex as a secondary/tertiary/regional corporate HQ. Benefits them because RE/development is cheaper in Waco than in Plano/Frisco/Round Rock/etc.

They would have brought upwards of 1500-2000 employees in for relocation. This is exactly what Waco needs to get over the hump. As John Fogerty once said, "looks like the plans fell through."

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You are correct, Trey. I never found out exactly who it was but it was a bluechip telecom company that was going to move a noteworthy amount of jobs to Waco to anchor that building. It never materialized and getting an anchor like that was likely the only way that large of a Class A office was feasible in Waco at this time.

UBBY I noticed over the weekend the 350 acres on 340 and 35 I asked about earlier in this thread has a for sale sign as well.

PartyBear said:

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UBBY I noticed over the weekend the 350 acres on 340 and 35 I asked about earlier in this thread has a for sale sign as well.

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O really? Maybe that project fell through too.

Is the Heritage Square area where the new basketball arena will go if it is downtown? If so, it will be kind of like losing the Bush Presidential Library. Huge consolation prize!

It's better suited as a parking lot...

https://www.wacotrib.com/business/schulman-s-movie-complex-at-i--loop-on-hold/article_58615f9d-f705-5b24-8f14-fc388c2e122e.html

Doesn't this happen with all of his projects. I thought he was the original developer 20 years ago of the Hollywood Theater area on 84 and bailed on it soon after just the theater was built or at least I thought.

BBear77 said:

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https://www.wacotrib.com/business/schulman-s-movie-complex-at-i--loop-on-hold/article_58615f9d-f705-5b24-8f14-fc388c2e122e.html

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A little disappointing but it would've been a little strange to have two similiar types of development almost right next to each other. At least there's confirmation of this:

https://www.wacotrib.com/business/topgolf-confirms-details-of-family-fun-complex-planned-on-i/article_6be9ef2f-3bec-5f1d-9b23-0208e5798913.html

Waco's Topgolf should open by fall this year near New Road and Interstate 35, between the Harley Davidson dealership and Central Texas Marketplace. Plano-based Cinemark has announced it will place there a 14-screen theater as part of NewQuest Properties' Cottonwood Creek Market development.

Waco's Topgolf will stand one-story high but have additional features giving it a family-oriented and backyard feel fueled by yard games, including bean bag toss and life-sized Jenga, seating areas with fire pits and picnic-style dining tables, according to the press release. Visitors can dine on newly introduced "Americana-inspired menu choices, including Boozy Milkshakes and signature chicken sandwiches."

Waco's Topgolf would complement the multi-screen theater, which will feature reclining seats, as well as several retail properties and a 48,559-square-foot building marked as an entertainment venue on a site map included in NewQuest Properties' marketing brochure. Also on that site plan, Willie's Grill & Icehouse is identified on a space on which negotiations continue. The Texas-based dining chain serves Cajun-style dishes, beer, wine, cocktails, seafood, catfish, sandwiches and salads.

Topgolf spokeswoman Kara Barry said Waco's version likely would sport at least 30 hitting bays. It also would feature "a 13-foot programmable video wall, VIP party patios, custom localized pop art and wall murals, more than 50 big screen TVs, and a live music stage," according to the press release.

Topgolf wants to spread its new concept statewide, and Waco appeared to be the perfect launching site, Barry said, mentioning its proximity to company headquarters in the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex.

"We want to find several cities in Texas to which we can bring the Topgolf experience in a little bit different environment," Barry said. "We hope to bring the same fun, the same energy we're introducing to Augusta and to Chattanooga. These venues will feature an open environment, kind of communal seating with picnic tables, gathering areas, games, fire pits and a stage for live music. It would have that backyard barbecue feel."

...

...

For comparison, the Topgolf attraction in Austin charges $27 per bay per hour daily from opening until noon, and parties can include up to six players. The charge is $37 per hour from noon to 5 p.m. daily. The charge is $47 per hour from 5 p.m. to closing Sunday through Thursday, and $49 per hour from 5 p.m. to closing on Friday and Saturday, according to its website.

"Topgolf's first backyard-style venue is set to open this spring in Augusta, and will include the same signature games powered by Toptracer Range ball-tracing technology, climate-controlled hitting bays, chef-inspired menu items and more while offering guests of all ages a variety of entertainment and socialization options both on the tee-line and in the distinct backyard-style outdoor area," Topgolf wrote in an email on Wednesday's announcement.


NewQuest promotional material mentions the Cinemark-anchored development's proximity to Cottonwood Creek Golf Course, Central Texas Marketplace, Legends Crossing, the Waco Independent School District stadium near New Road and Bagby Avenue, The Doris Miller Veterans Affairs Medical Center, University High School and several apartment complexes.

It also shows that about 107,000 vehicles pass the site daily on I-35.

Ford said he believes other entertainment-related projects will dot the development site at New Road and Interstate 35.

"I expect more exciting news and announcements," he said. "When our team was considering this proposal, there was discussion of all kinds of possibilities, and they are beginning to fall into place. I think there has been discussion of a Dave & Buster's, Main Event or something like that.

"I think this, the Topgolf announcement, is a home run, something really special for families, where they can hang out, play a few games. I know Topgolf has put a lot of thought into this new concept."

...

A Topgolf rendering shows plans for a new "backyard-style" attraction in Augusta, Georgia. A location planned for Waco would have a similar design.

nm

Agreed, two similar venues have a small chance of success in a market the size of Waco.

As a side note, I understand participants in the south side development got into spat about a change in layout of development. Something about apartments being built and would change access to Movie Bowl Grill.

PartyBear said:

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Doesn't this happen with all of his projects. I thought he was the original developer 20 years ago of the Hollywood Theater area on 84 and bailed on it soon after just the theater was built or at least I thought.

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City Lights.

Good Call.

Schulman is another Rick Sheldon or Dyson: ambitious ideas without the ability to follow through.

Do you know Schulman?

UBBY said:

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PartyBear said:

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What about the river project?

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A building permit valued at $20.2 million has been secured by Catalyst Urban Development to place Brazos Promenade Apartments, a parking garage, a retail building and two Dumpster enclosures at 414 S. University Parks Drive, near the heart of the mixed-use development that backers have said would include a full-service hotel, restaurants, shopping venues and housing.

On the drawing board for years, Brazos Promenade has received a pledge of a more than $20 million Tax Increment Financing grant from Waco.

Information provided by the local office of the Associated General Contractors of America shows Catalyst Urban Development secured permits Jan. 14 to build on land at 407, 414 and 500 S. University Parks Drive, and at 90 and 121 Webster Ave. This stretch of property includes the vacant Waco Fire Department training station to be demolished for Brazos Promenade.

No word yet on when construction will start. The most recent start date officials provided passed months ago.

---

Any update on this?

Not that I know of.

I thought this was interesting, especially now .

WACO, TEXAS JLL has arranged construction financing for The Riverfront Lofts, a 266-unit multifamily project in Waco that represents Phase I of The Riverfront mixed-use development.

The community will feature a fitness center, coffee lounge, entertainment and gaming area, a community kitchen and a business center.

First United Bank provided the floating-rate loan to the developer, Dallas-based Catalyst Urban Development. Jeremy Sain of JLL placed the debt. An expected completion date was not released.

BCL79 said:

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I thought this was interesting, especially now .

WACO, TEXAS JLL has arranged construction financing for The Riverfront Lofts, a 266-unit multifamily project in Waco that represents Phase I of The Riverfront mixed-use development.

The community will feature a fitness center, coffee lounge, entertainment and gaming area, a community kitchen and a business center.

First United Bank provided the floating-rate loan to the developer, Dallas-based Catalyst Urban Development. Jeremy Sain of JLL placed the debt. An expected completion date was not released.

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I noticed a modular construction office on the old farmers market site next to the river last week. No other activity though.

Yogi said:

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PartyBear said:

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Doesn't this happen with all of his projects. I thought he was the original developer 20 years ago of the Hollywood Theater area on 84 and bailed on it soon after just the theater was built or at least I thought.

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City Lights.

Good Call.

Schulman is another Rick Sheldon or Dyson: ambitious ideas without the ability to follow through.

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All hat. No cattle.