Crawfoso1973 said:

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As a starter on a team this talented, he now has to know when to attack and when to differ to other great offensive players. I have wondered if it would be best for both the team and for Matt to come off the bench again.

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I wondered about moving him back to 6th man.

I don't necessarily think he needs to come off the bench, he just needs to move back into a more niche secondary offensive role as opposed to becoming The Man. It felt early on we were forcing him into that peg because of his experience, but it doesn't seem to suit his talent. He just doesn't seem effective as a primary go-to threat.

He's always been at his best hovering around the 3-point line off-ball, finding perimeter gaps on kick-outs for 3's, and shooting off-ball back-door cuts for interior points. When he's off-ball 1-on-1 he's really dangerous at finding and exploiting space.

What he's not good at, at least not right now, is creating his own shot off-dribble and driving 20+ feet to the rim. And he's tried to do an awful lot of both those things this year.

Robert Wilson said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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As a starter on a team this talented, he now has to know when to attack and when to differ to other great offensive players. I have wondered if it would be best for both the team and for Matt to come off the bench again.

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I wondered about moving him back to 6th man.

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I'm really opposed to this because of what he is bringing from a leadership perspective

Neither team was shooting well Saturday.

Villanova's reason was obvious.

I think the Bears were expending so much energy on the defensive end they had trouble shifting to offense mode. Walking the ball up the floor might solve one problem but the high intensity shown by the Bears might suffer.

parch said:

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I don't necessarily think he needs to come off the bench, he just needs to move back into a more niche secondary offensive role as opposed to becoming The Man. It felt early on we were forcing him into that peg because of his experience, but it doesn't seem to suit his talent. He just doesn't seem effective as a primary go-to threat.

He's always been at his best hovering around the 3-point line off-ball, finding perimeter gaps on kick-outs for 3's, and shooting off-ball back-door cuts for interior points. When he's off-ball 1-on-1 he's really dangerous at finding and exploiting space.

What he's not good at, at least not right now, is creating his own shot off-dribble and driving 20+ feet to the rim. And he's tried to do an awful lot of both those things this year.

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I don't think we even need a "go to" man since we have so many capable scorers. Hopefully we can focus on exploiting weaknesses in the opposing defense with whoever has the ball. We may have different scorers for every game, and that's the mark of a great team. Hopefully Drew can continue to instill that team first approach and that our players will be content if they don't take a lot of shots depending on what the defense gave us.

As others have said, no. Mayer had a bad start to the season, shooting in the high teens from 3-pt range. He was a 39.5% shooter last season on a lot of volume, so that's clearly going to regress to the mean, in a positive sense. He was all the way back up to 36% prior to Sunday's game, although he's down to 34% now. Lots of season left. He'll be fine.

Flagler, too. He's one of the best pure shooters on the country. He's clearly being bothered by his hand injury, as any shooter would be. Once that heals up, he'll be fine. Hopefully it happens before conference play starts.

Nova played really good defense, we werent getting a lot of uncontested shots. , and we seemed to be out of rythym due to that. The BU defense, however, was in a gear I've never seen before. Never seen that kind of effort over an entire game. It was scary.

Y'all just relax… it's Mayer Time

https://theplayerstrunk.com/collections/matthew-mayer

1--I'm a fan of MM.

2--My impression is he's reverting to what he did when he first arrived, namely being too eager rather than choosing his shots more wisely and passing the ball when he should. Last year he improved greatly in that category, so I hope CSD helps him to rein himself in. When he does, MM is awesome.

No

You know who should be worried about MM?

The B12. When his shot starts to fall, it's not going to be pretty for them.

Concerned for the team? No. We have so many options offensively that him being off doesn't hurt that much, particularly when almost 50% of our games so far have been against teams ranked by KenPom at #230, #340, #353 and #357. Competition will get much stiffer as we enter conference play but this team is loaded offensively. I'm more befuddled by Flagler's poor 3 point shooting, although I still wonder if it's mainly the hand/wrist issue.

Concerned for him? Definitely not concerned on defense. He looks like he really worked on that aspect of his game over the summer. Not concerned offensively, yet. It is factual, however, that these are his stats against P5 opponents (Stanford, ASU, MSU) + Top 10 Villanova.

FG% - 32.3%
3 Pt % -20.0%

Scoring:

Stanford - 4
ASU - 14
MSU - 8
Nova - 3

This is a small sample, so you have to believe he will work his way back to the norm or at least close to the norm at some point. He did play well against VCU. I was surprised to hear in that article that he gets incredibly nervous. I would have thought the exact opposite. He always seems confident to me.

texillian said:

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I think during the broadcast, it was mentioned that he gets pretty nervous before big games.

Shooting the ball can definitely be effected by nerves. My guess is that over time, with exposure to more big games, he's going to kick that. However, I'm also guessing starting the game vs coming in off the bench makes a difference as well.

Certainly didn't show it in the 3 he made to open the game.

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This probably explains most of it. Matthew is already quite good. Imagine his great he will he when he can figure out to play at peak levels.

As for his hair, he's not Sampson but I don't think it really matters. If he's comfortable with it, let it be. It's irrelevant.

In High School his Senior year he lost confidence and was not aggressive on offense. When he came to Baylor he decided he would be aggressive all the time and that led to some of his questionable decisions his first year.

What I see is a player who can grab a defensive rebound and push the ball up court. A player this year who is making good decisions. For the most part the shots he missed Sunday were good looks. A player who is working incredibly hard on defense. And a player with the fewest turnovers of any of any of our rotation players who handle the ball.

Most people don't know Mayer had the highest Defensive Efficiency Rating on the team last year. Their preconceived notions of him as a player closed their eyes to what he was doing on the court. He was on the court last year when we made the big defensive stand against Villanova in the second half.

Players his size that can guard on the perimeter are rare. Freakishly, our team has 4 of them, which is the biggest reason we are lights out the best team in the Country.

The advantage of conference play in terms of his shooting is that you have to believe his confidence offensively will return as he plays teams and players that he's familiar playing against. That should result in some games where he really lights it up from 3.

DanaDane said:

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This is a small sample, so you have to believe he will work his way back to the norm or at least close to the norm at some point.

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We'll have a better idea after a few conference games, but I think it's questionable to assume that what he did last year in a more limited bench role behind more proven, more clutch players on a championship-winning team is the norm for what he is as a starter on an as-yet less-proven squad. I think it's much more likely that what we've seen thus far this season is closer to what can be expected from him going forward.

I've always questioned the pollyannish hype of him being a lottery pick, a future NBA star. He might be an NBA player, if by NBA player you mean a 2nd round draft pick who gets one contract and then is out of the league. That's not meant to be a slight, in any way. There are passing few guys who can manage that. There are a lot of very good players that never make it in, or even to, the association.

Worried? No. Better than the Glover and Cookie Stern era. Want better for him? Yes!

Hey, NEVER underrate Paul Kuiper!

tomiathon said:

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DanaDane said:

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This is a small sample, so you have to believe he will work his way back to the norm or at least close to the norm at some point.

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We'll have a better idea after a few conference games, but I think it's questionable to assume that what he did last year in a more limited bench role behind more proven, more clutch players on a championship-winning team is the norm for what he is as a starter on an as-yet less-proven squad. I think it's much more likely that what we've seen thus far this season is closer to what can be expected from him going forward.

I've always questioned the pollyannish hype of him being a lottery pick, a future NBA star. He might be an NBA player, if by NBA player you mean a 2nd round draft pick who gets one contract and then is out of the league. That's not meant to be a slight, in any way. There are passing few guys who can manage that. There are a lot of very good players that never make it in, or even to, the association.

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"Pollyannish?" He was a key player on by far the best team in the Country last year. He is a key player on by far the best team in the Country this year despite losing our entire backcourt to the NBA.

So what are you missing?

MrGolfguy said:

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Last game against Villanova he appeared hectic and nervous, like he was trying too hard to make something happen. Just needs to relax because he's got the skill & ability to play a significant role on the team.

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I feel like this is just the way he plays. Sometimes the shots fall and sometimes they don't. The great part last season is when one of the guys had a bad shooting night another player was there to pick up the slack. Didn't really see that as much on Sun. But these guys are good players. Will just chalk it up to a bad game shootingwise.

The big story of the game is that our D held them to record lows. Good, it was a clinic as the announcer said. (How many times have we heard that in recent games?!). But their D held us to only 57. Our amazing team last year scored 29 more points against Gonzaga in April, a team the press told us all year was the best.

It was a great defensive battle.

Concerned? Why? Because he is playing the way he has always played at Baylor? Look, I'm glad he is a Baylor Bear, but he's not the kind of player that is going to all of a sudden start playing under control and become a stable fixture in the lineup. Just not his way. The worse thing that happened to Mayer on Sunday was he made his first shot of the game. At that point he became a mental liability. And for those of you praising his defense? You need to watch him a little closer. He is reaching, he is leaving his feet, he is chasing...defense will never be his calling card except for the advantages of being 6-10 and having a wide wingspan. His value is the energy he brings and the panache of being the likable kid on the team that just does enough to get you excited. The greatest description of Mayer....irrationally confident.

BU82EX said:

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Concerned? Why? Because he is playing the way he has always played at Baylor? Look, I'm glad he is a Baylor Bear, but he's not the kind of player that is going to all of a sudden start playing under control and become a stable fixture in the lineup. Just not his way. The worse thing that happened to Mayer on Sunday was he made his first shot of the game. At that point he became a mental liability. And for those of you praising his defense? You need to watch him a little closer. He is reaching, he is leaving his feet, he is chasing...defense will never be his calling card except for the advantages of being 6-10 and having a wide wingspan. His value is the energy he brings and the panache of being the likable kid on the team that just does enough to get you excited. The greatest description of Mayer....irrationally confident.

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The hot takes just keep on coming, some of you are impossible to please.....Matt has and will continue to be a "stable fixture" in the lineup on a national championship team. He is not a player who you want playing "under control" because he is at his best when in attack mode. I have no idea what game you were watching, because he was not a "mental liability" in the game vs. Villanova. He was relentless defensively, and on offense was aggressive (as he should be) and took good shots, they just didn't happen to be falling for him. It's a game called basketball, shooting slumps happen to the best of 'em.

And I can only LOL at those questioning his NBA future. At his size and athleticism, he will be a great bench piece in the NBA. A much more wide-open game where he can assume his ideal microwave scoring and energy role off the bench.

BU82EX said:

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Concerned? Why? Because he is playing the way he has always played at Baylor? Look, I'm glad he is a Baylor Bear, but he's not the kind of player that is going to all of a sudden start playing under control and become a stable fixture in the lineup. Just not his way. The worse thing that happened to Mayer on Sunday was he made his first shot of the game. At that point he became a mental liability. And for those of you praising his defense? You need to watch him a little closer. He is reaching, he is leaving his feet, he is chasing...defense will never be his calling card except for the advantages of being 6-10 and having a wide wingspan. His value is the energy he brings and the panache of being the likable kid on the team that just does enough to get you excited. The greatest description of Mayer....irrationally confident.

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Tell me you have a low basketball IQ, without telling me you have a low basketball IQ

The way some of you guys react whenever someone suggests James Naismith may not have invented basketball with the sole intent that St. Matthew Mayer would someday play it is freaking hysterical. Keep it up.

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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hodedofome said:

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I'm more worried about him cutting his hair than his performance on the court.

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That John Deere haircut is horrendous. God bless him.

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No it would definitely be like Samson and Delilah. He would lose all his strength if he cut it.

tomiathon said:

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The way some of you guys react whenever someone suggests James Naismith may not have invented basketball with the sole intent that St. Matthew Mayer would someday play it is freaking hysterical. Keep it up.

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The way you crap all over him on multiple Baylor websites suggests he stole your gf or something. It's sad. Don't keep it up.

Mitch Henessey said:

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tomiathon said:

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The way some of you guys react whenever someone suggests James Naismith may not have invented basketball with the sole intent that St. Matthew Mayer would someday play it is freaking hysterical. Keep it up.

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The way you crap all over him on multiple Baylor websites suggests he stole your gf or something. It's sad. Don't keep it up.

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I've never crapped all over him, Mrs. Mayer. You're pathetic

tomiathon said:

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Mitch Henessey said:

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tomiathon said:

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The way some of you guys react whenever someone suggests James Naismith may not have invented basketball with the sole intent that St. Matthew Mayer would someday play it is freaking hysterical. Keep it up.

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The way you crap all over him on multiple Baylor websites suggests he stole your gf or something. It's sad. Don't keep it up.

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I've never crapped all over him, Mrs. Mayer. You're pathetic

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Unless someone stole your user handle over at ODB, you absolutely have been since before the season even started.

Every fanbase has their dumb fans in it. Ours just do a particularly good job at outing themselves.

Mitch Henessey said:

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tomiathon said:

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Mitch Henessey said:

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tomiathon said:

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The way some of you guys react whenever someone suggests James Naismith may not have invented basketball with the sole intent that St. Matthew Mayer would someday play it is freaking hysterical. Keep it up.

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The way you crap all over him on multiple Baylor websites suggests he stole your gf or something. It's sad. Don't keep it up.

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I've never crapped all over him, Mrs. Mayer. You're pathetic

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Unless someone stole your user handle over at ODB, you absolutely have been since before the season even started.

Every fanbase has their dumb fans in it. Ours just do a particularly good job at outing themselves.

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Pointing out very real flaws is not crapping all over someone. Doubting that he's the best player in basketball history is not crapping all over someone. Just because your bedroom is plastered with Matthew Mayer posters with hearts all over them doesn't mean other people can't have a realistic discussion.

At least your last graph was accurate, if unintentionally and completely lacking in self awareness. Now quit stalking me you pathetic, creepy psycopath

Man this thread sure fell off the rails in a hurry

He looks more or less the same, other than less confident. Apparently he concentrated on conditioning in the off-season, so I'm not surprised his skills don't seem to have jumped up.

Just give him time. A younger/less experienced team always improves once they get to the conference schedule, as long as the coaching is there. Big 12 will be a trial by fire this year, and we will be better for it.

tomiathon said:

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Mitch Henessey said:

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tomiathon said:

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Mitch Henessey said:

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tomiathon said:

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The way some of you guys react whenever someone suggests James Naismith may not have invented basketball with the sole intent that St. Matthew Mayer would someday play it is freaking hysterical. Keep it up.

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The way you crap all over him on multiple Baylor websites suggests he stole your gf or something. It's sad. Don't keep it up.

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I've never crapped all over him, Mrs. Mayer. You're pathetic

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Unless someone stole your user handle over at ODB, you absolutely have been since before the season even started.

Every fanbase has their dumb fans in it. Ours just do a particularly good job at outing themselves.

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Pointing out very real flaws is not crapping all over someone. Doubting that he's the best player in basketball history is not crapping all over someone. Just because your bedroom is plastered with Matthew Mayer posters with hearts all over them doesn't mean other people can't have a realistic discussion.

At least your last graph was accurate, if unintentionally and completely lacking in self awareness. Now quit stalking me you pathetic, creepy psycopath

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These EGOTbear socks get more and more elaborate

JP1037 said:

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Am I alone to be worried about Matthew Mayer?

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Yeah

Mitch is from the Group think personal attack Board where different opinions are not allowed. Notice that Premium members, like Mitch, always attack others instead of giving a reasonable viewpoint on the topic. Scoring wise, Mayer is struggling this year, and without his history at Baylor, might not be starting. He certainly has the talent to be a force on O.