I was thinking mostly the same thing. I don't think we ever built anything sustainable with one and dones. But to be fair we have also brought in guys that were not thought to be one and dones and they progressed so rapidly during the season they turned out that way. But I would sure like to have some experienced players in the program move through it in the conventional way.

Agreed. We don't have to offer scholarships to all the 5* kids, we choose to do so.

We did have some 5* dudes in the past, quite a few actually. We shifted to more of a focus on development of 4* talent or not one and done recruits and transfers and then we eventually won a title.

Ironically Houston is now veering away from its prior strategy. They bid the highest and grabbed 3 Five stars and a Four star for next year.

And they'll regret that strategy. Why teams are so eager to go away from what's working for them is baffling

This smells more of Fertitta than it does Kelvin. The last two times he went down that route it was sheer disaster with Tiny Gallon and Tommy Mason-Griffin, which was part of what started his downfall at OU, and then again at IU, because he found they wouldn't listen to him. I doubt it was fully his desire to do it again particularly given his success with roster construction with his time at UH.

Not surprised to see you pumping the sunshine per usual.
Bet you're uber happy with today's showing.

Big12Fan2024 said:

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This smells more of Fertitta than it does Kelvin. The last two times he went down that route it was sheer disaster with Tiny Gallon and Tommy Mason-Griffin, which was part of what started his downfall at OU, and then again at IU, because he found they wouldn't listen to him. I doubt it was fully his desire to do it again particularly given his success with roster construction with his time at UH.

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Tiny Gallon and Tommy Mason-Griffin were not Sampson guys. They were Capel - who was a total disaster.

Sampson's rosters at OU were never full of 5 stars. Najera, Price, etc were all blue collar.

I had lunch with Samson when he was recruiting one of my teammates. He and the assistants were grilling us about his character.

Yes. Good catch. I got Capel and Sampson years crossed. My bad.

IowaBear said:

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Explain Houston's success than? Or Iowa States. Or Kansas. All 3 have built their roster core through recruiting/developing multiple year guys
I'll reiterate the biggest lie in these boards is the "the days of roster building are over" no they aren't, they days of Drew choosing that route certainly seem over. How's that working out?

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Or Gonzaga's.

There are a bunch of coaches still building programs rather than teams. We've just chosen to chase shiny things.

No worries!

Yup examples everywhere. Not sure why this fanbase seems to think the only way to build a roster is how BU is currently building them

Missed the game today because I was at my daughter's third game this weekend.

I'm not sure I can sit through it knowing we lost at home to the toads.

Gonna be a hard choice

vanillabryce said:

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Big12Fan2024 said:

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This smells more of Fertitta than it does Kelvin. The last two times he went down that route it was sheer disaster with Tiny Gallon and Tommy Mason-Griffin, which was part of what started his downfall at OU, and then again at IU, because he found they wouldn't listen to him. I doubt it was fully his desire to do it again particularly given his success with roster construction with his time at UH.

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Tiny Gallon and Tommy Mason-Griffin were not Sampson guys. They were Capel - who was a total disaster.

Sampson's rosters at OU were never full of 5 stars. Najera, Price, etc were all blue collar.

I had lunch with Samson when he was recruiting one of my teammates. He and the assistants were grilling us about his character.

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Blake Griffin was that type of player, and he squeezed two years out of him.

But most of Sampson's teams were built out of really good college players like Taj Gray and Kevin Bookout.

vanillabryce said:

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Missed the game today because I was at my daughter's third game this weekend.

I'm not sure I can sit through it knowing we lost at home to the toads.

Gonna be a hard choice

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I wouldn't waste your time. You can get a pretty good idea of what happened by looking at the box score and reading this thread.

I will continue to beat the drum the natty years were some of Drew's biggest swings and misses at top talent and why we landed the team we did. I'm not saying our roster was an accident but it was a function of drew not getting his first choice.

Our problem now is Drew is constantly getting his first choice and no one is telling him hey how's that going to look as a team.

Sometimes it's awesome like sochan most of the time it's a dumpster fire like roach brown or Jakobe

I don't know what the answer is. To be fair, this team should have Missi on it. Same with Sochan on earlier teams. And Love has been a waste of a roster spot. Injuries happen, but he's basically put us a down a guard for 3 years, No development at that spot.

I generally agree with the one and dones, but several players were not projected like that. It is almost like Drew is getting punished for being great at talent spotting and development.

Not sunshine pumping. What happened yesterday is unacceptable. But I don't think the answer is as simple as no one and dones and better roster construction or at least fixing those is pretty complex.

Fair assessment. But to play devils advocate we aren't even attempting to recruit developmental players. We're strictly going after 5 stars. (Sochan should have been a 5 star). Seems fair to say Drew's strategy is 1 and done types and upperclassmen transfers. It hasn't worked and all these last 3 years and I just don't see it working going forward.
Agree on LL. I'm his biggest fan. But he's a complete waste of a spot. Ashley said on the post game they expect him back mid February!! Ankle soreness somehow turned into 2 friggin months. It's beyond time to politely ask him to move on at seasons end

IowaBear said:

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Fair assessment. But to play devils advocate we aren't even attempting to recruit developmental players. We're strictly going after 5 stars. (Sochan should have been a 5 star). Seems fair to say Drew's strategy is 1 and done types and upperclassmen transfers. It hasn't worked and all these last 3 years and I just don't see it working going forward.
Agree on LL. I'm his biggest fan. But he's a complete waste of a spot. Ashley said on the post game they expect him back mid February!! Ankle soreness somehow turned into 2 friggin months. It's beyond time to politely ask him to move on at seasons end

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Why beyond spite would you want him out of the program? No college basketball program needs or uses 13 scholarships. Just recruit over him and stop relying on him as a rotation player. But there's no reason to push him out of the program unless he wants to leave.

There's no spite here… I've literally been LLs biggest fan that's pretty much undeniable.
That said, we're talking 3 years of injuries. The best ability is availability. You recruit over him and he's leaving anyways. Help him find a program willing to take a chance on him. But relying on him to be a contributor next season would be a colossal mistake.

IowaBear said:

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There's no spite here… I've literally been LLs biggest fan that's pretty much undeniable.
That said, we're talking 3 years of injuries. The best ability is availability. You recruit over him and he's leaving anyways. Help him find a program willing to take a chance on him. But relying on him to be a contributor next season would be a colossal mistake.

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I don't disagree with your rationale. I just don't see any reason whatsoever to ask him to leave. If he wants to leave, wish him well. But there's no reason any Baylor fan should want to see him ushered out of the program for having terrible injury luck. JMO.

It's not that I want to see LL leave. But we need to invest in players who can be relied on. Think it would be wise to help LL find a program where he can hopefully thrive.
Just no longer think that's at Bu. And that's unfortunate because a healthy Langston Love is a damm good ball player

MrGolfguy said:

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Unpopular opinion, but its mine so hate on me all you want IDGAF

The best - obvious reasons

The worst - it made BU hoops a popular destination for the one & done players (i know we got some before the NC). These guys just seem to be out for themselves, don't care about playing as a team, don't give a damn about playing defense, just want to put on a show for the NBA scouts, wanna play one on one and make a highlight reel play, or jack up long or wild 3's. Then they're gone and the next year it's a whole new group of guys that spends the first couple months of the season "learning how to play together". How the season is going this year will be typical if this is how they are going to keep filling the roster.

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Your opinion is not unpopular. Scott Drew is to blame for failing to construct a roster. But since he has reached the top before. he can do so again. But he'll need to focus more on collective than individual talent.

bear2be2 said:

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vanillabryce said:

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Big12Fan2024 said:

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This smells more of Fertitta than it does Kelvin. The last two times he went down that route it was sheer disaster with Tiny Gallon and Tommy Mason-Griffin, which was part of what started his downfall at OU, and then again at IU, because he found they wouldn't listen to him. I doubt it was fully his desire to do it again particularly given his success with roster construction with his time at UH.

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Tiny Gallon and Tommy Mason-Griffin were not Sampson guys. They were Capel - who was a total disaster.

Sampson's rosters at OU were never full of 5 stars. Najera, Price, etc were all blue collar.

I had lunch with Samson when he was recruiting one of my teammates. He and the assistants were grilling us about his character.

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Blake Griffin was that type of player, and he squeezed two years out of him.

But most of Sampson's teams were built out of really good college players like Taj Gray and Kevin Bookout.

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Sampson was an assistant for Milwaukee during Griffin's run at OU. If you remember Sampson got caught cheating again, and was exiled from college.

Capel recruited and coached Griffin.

Access to 5* one-and-done types is just a tool, like almost everything else. It's a tool we didn't have before. We still have access to the types of recruits we had before. It's up to Scott Drew to use the tools available (which at this point is a whole lot) to construct a program/roster that's going to work.

vanillabryce said:

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bear2be2 said:

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vanillabryce said:

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Big12Fan2024 said:

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This smells more of Fertitta than it does Kelvin. The last two times he went down that route it was sheer disaster with Tiny Gallon and Tommy Mason-Griffin, which was part of what started his downfall at OU, and then again at IU, because he found they wouldn't listen to him. I doubt it was fully his desire to do it again particularly given his success with roster construction with his time at UH.

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Tiny Gallon and Tommy Mason-Griffin were not Sampson guys. They were Capel - who was a total disaster.

Sampson's rosters at OU were never full of 5 stars. Najera, Price, etc were all blue collar.

I had lunch with Samson when he was recruiting one of my teammates. He and the assistants were grilling us about his character.

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Blake Griffin was that type of player, and he squeezed two years out of him.

But most of Sampson's teams were built out of really good college players like Taj Gray and Kevin Bookout.

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Sampson was an assistant for Milwaukee during Griffin's run at OU. If you remember Sampson got caught cheating again, and was exiled from college.

Capel recruited and coached Griffin.

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All those years run together for me now, but you are correct. I remembered Sampson recruiting and coaching Taylor Griffin and thought for some reason that he had recruited and coached Blake as well. But he'd been gone a full year before Blake Griffin arrived.

I'm getting old.

Didn't read all this thread but I'm not sure developing players like they used to will work that well anymore. Players will be more likely to transfer than wait their turn now unless you have money to throw at the developing players also. I think we won the championship at just the right time before the new transfer and NIL rules.

jrock42 said:

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Didn't read all this thread but I'm not sure developing players like they used to will work that well anymore. Players will be more likely to transfer than wait their turn now unless you have money to throw at the developing players also. I think we won the championship at just the right time before the new transfer and NIL rules.

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Then why have the last 3 champions had lots of developed players being key contributors on their teams. Why are many of the best teams this year consisting of teams where many of the key contributors are guys who have been around and developed. Maybe you should have read the thread...

Big12Fan2024 said:

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Ironically Houston is now veering away from its prior strategy. They bid the highest and grabbed 3 Five stars and a Four star for next year.

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It's being done carefully though. Only one of those are very likely 1 and dones. None are vj hype level or even George for that matter.

The others are borderline which with returning players might work okay. Might have two for two years. Better than losing every guy every year.

Now keeping them from demanding immediate big playing time might be a problem, I agree there.

IvanBear said:

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jrock42 said:

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Didn't read all this thread but I'm not sure developing players like they used to will work that well anymore. Players will be more likely to transfer than wait their turn now unless you have money to throw at the developing players also. I think we won the championship at just the right time before the new transfer and NIL rules.

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Then why have the last 3 champions had lots of developed players being key contributors on their teams. Why are many of the best teams this year consisting of teams where many of the key contributors are guys who have been around and developed. Maybe you should have read the thread...

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That doesn't mean its not harder than it used to be. If you are winning, everyone is happy, and there's an expectation of getting more playing time, more money, and winning the next year its easier to keep players. Scott Drew isn't trying to do anything different than these other teams who are getting transfers, getting top recruits, and trying to develop players at the same time. Think we've been unfortunate and have gotten players that are either too good or players that aren't panning out. Missi wasn't expected to be one and done. Maybe some of the players need development. Maybe we could have redshirted Miro Little and not given him significant minutes until his 3rd year like we did players in the past. Would Cryer have transferred if he couldn't play right away along with an NIL deal? My point is that its harder now and you have to play the transfer game like all the winning teams this year have done. Top players for those winning teams this year are mostly first or second year transfers or freshmen.