What is he doing?! Genuinely don't know why he's taken three horrible contested threes, yet he won't launch it at the end of the half. He's like a Lamborghini with a 7-year old driving. Crazy athleticism, but he's still so raw and clearly doesn't have a good feel for the game. No shot we come back in the 2nd half.

I like Tounde but I seriously doubt he last but a few years in the NBA. His skills are a dime a dozen.

canoso said:

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IowaBear said:

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I like Tounde but I seriously doubt he last but a few years in the NBA. His skills are a dime a dozen.

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0 of 6 today from deep. Aka "disappeared." He'll be smart to play college ball at least one more year.

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He would be, but I'll be surprised if his agent doesn't convince him he's ready to move on.

I would like him to move on as well. I'll take a player who is less athletic than he but has a higher basketball IQ. For me, there is nothing worse than low IQ. That's why I like our power forward. Despite athletic issues, he works hard and tries to do the right thing. So in sum, I hope his agent tells him to move on.

Until we commit to recruiting some defensive players, coaching/developing some defensive players and playing defense, we're gonna be right back here again no matter whether we have Tounde, Cam or anyone else.

Big12Fan2024 said:

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Until we commit to recruiting some defensive players, coaching/developing some defensive players and playing defense, we're gonna be right back here again no matter whether we have Tounde, Cam or anyone else.

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This. And they can't just be decent defenders, they have to be dogs. The only times we've ever been good defensively is when we were player-led on that end by elite defenders who actually enjoyed playing defense.

Johnny Bear said:

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canoso said:

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IowaBear said:

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I like Tounde but I seriously doubt he last but a few years in the NBA. His skills are a dime a dozen.

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0 of 6 today from deep. Aka "disappeared." He'll be smart to play college ball at least one more year.

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He would be, but I'll be surprised if his agent doesn't convince him he's ready to move on.

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Well it might be smart to move on from Baylor if he is going to stay in college

I thought his body language was awful yesterday. Along with the stupid and selfish decisions. He will be gone to the draft, but even if he wants to play college basketball, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if he played elsewhere.

bear2be2 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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I thought his body language was awful yesterday. Along with the stupid and selfish decisions. He will be gone to the draft, but even if he wants to play college basketball, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if he played elsewhere.

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If he's playing college ball next season, I'd prefer it to be for us. He's a guy who would make a big jump in Year 2 IMO.

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Depends what he would command on the open market. He is not someone I would want to break the bank for.

guadalupeoso said:

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Guitarbiscuit said:

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I would like him to move on as well. I'll take a player who is less athletic than he but has a higher basketball IQ. For me, there is nothing worse than low IQ. That's why I like our power forward. Despite athletic issues, he works hard and tries to do the right thing. So in sum, I hope his agent tells him to move on.

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What a braindead take. He's a true freshman, 19 year old who just learned to speak English and began playing organized basketball in the United States only 5 years ago. Sure he played basketball in Nigeria before, but the development he received there is nothing like what players here in the U.S. and Europe get from a young age.

He also averaged 18 points and 6 rebounds as a 19 year old with a "low IQ." If Jared Butler had played the same amount of minutes his freshman year that Yessoufou did, you would have been saying the same thing.

By no means should we break the bank to keep Yessoufou, but if he is back in college basketball next year (which he should be - won't be, but should be), then we should all hope he is playing for us as he matures.

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I agree with most of what you say here, but Jared Butler was a much smarter basketball player as a freshman than Tounde is. Yessoufou is more talented, but he's getting by primarily on athleticism and a pretty polished post game right now.

I don't blame him for his low basketball IQ. As I said in another thread that's more a product of inexperience than anything else. But we can only judge players based on the time that we have them, and that's just reality right now.

I really hope he does come back. I think he would be an excellent college player with this season and a full offseason under his belt. But we all know the likelihood of that is very low. And as with most freshmen, we're getting these guys at their absolute most frustrating, which is why this strategy has largely been a fail, if you don't value draft picks or particularly care what type of NBA careers these guys have.

bear2be2 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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I thought his body language was awful yesterday. Along with the stupid and selfish decisions. He will be gone to the draft, but even if he wants to play college basketball, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if he played elsewhere.

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If he's playing college ball next season, I'd prefer it to be for us. He's a guy who would make a big jump in Year 2 IMO.

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Agree. Takes some longer than others to show marked improvement. Patience........

bear2be2 said:

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guadalupeoso said:

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Guitarbiscuit said:

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I would like him to move on as well. I'll take a player who is less athletic than he but has a higher basketball IQ. For me, there is nothing worse than low IQ. That's why I like our power forward. Despite athletic issues, he works hard and tries to do the right thing. So in sum, I hope his agent tells him to move on.

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What a braindead take. He's a true freshman, 19 year old who just learned to speak English and began playing organized basketball in the United States only 5 years ago. Sure he played basketball in Nigeria before, but the development he received there is nothing like what players here in the U.S. and Europe get from a young age.

He also averaged 18 points and 6 rebounds as a 19 year old with a "low IQ." If Jared Butler had played the same amount of minutes his freshman year that Yessoufou did, you would have been saying the same thing.

By no means should we break the bank to keep Yessoufou, but if he is back in college basketball next year (which he should be - won't be, but should be), then we should all hope he is playing for us as he matures.

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I agree with most of what you say here, but Jared Butler was a much smarter basketball player as a freshman than Tounde is. Yessoufou is more talented, but he's getting by primarily on athleticism and a pretty polished post game right now.

I don't blame him for his low basketball IQ. As I said in another thread that's more a product of inexperience than anything else. But we can only judge players based on the time that we have them, and that's just reality right now.

I really hope he does come back. I think he would be an excellent college player with this season and a full offseason under his belt. But we all know the likelihood of that is very low. And as with most freshmen, we're getting these guys at their absolute most frustrating, which is why this strategy has largely been a fail, if you don't value draft picks or particularly care what type of NBA careers these guys have.

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I completely agree that Jared's iq was higher than Tounde's as a freshman. But he also played a lot less. Any freshman who plays significant minutes is going to make mental errors and show lapses in their basketball knowledge/IQ. Other than maybe the rare Cooper Flagg's of the world.

Completely agree with you though, I hope Yessoufou comes back. I think it would be a win-win for us and him. I think if he develops a little more maturity and a better decision maker, particularly on the defensive side. While he would sometimes jack up a bad three pointer on the offensive end, his really bad lapses were just total blown assignments and misunderstandings of on-ball defense. Another year would help him recognize a lot of the things that he missed this season. I think he could be a lottery pick or just outside the lottery if he comes back.

canoso said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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I thought his body language was awful yesterday. Along with the stupid and selfish decisions. He will be gone to the draft, but even if he wants to play college basketball, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if he played elsewhere.

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If he's playing college ball next season, I'd prefer it to be for us. He's a guy who would make a big jump in Year 2 IMO.

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Agree. Takes some longer than others to show marked improvement. Patience........

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Most players get better with experience. And back when we prioritized it, we did a really good job of developing the guys in our program.

That's what has made me so damn frustrated by our post-title recruiting shift. We abandoned what we were really good at and won a championship with in favor of a quick-fix, "shiny object" pursuit that we've never had success with under Drew.

That unnecessary transition was, is and will always be mind-boggling to me. And after watching it stagnate our program to a state of abject mediocrity, I'm struggling to see how we get this train back on a track to national prominence.

guadalupeoso said:

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Guitarbiscuit said:

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I would like him to move on as well. I'll take a player who is less athletic than he but has a higher basketball IQ. For me, there is nothing worse than low IQ. That's why I like our power forward. Despite athletic issues, he works hard and tries to do the right thing. So in sum, I hope his agent tells him to move on.

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What a braindead take. He's a true freshman, 19 year old who just learned to speak English and began playing organized basketball in the United States only 5 years ago. Sure he played basketball in Nigeria before, but the development he received there is nothing like what players here in the U.S. and Europe get from a young age.

He also averaged 18 points and 6 rebounds as a 19 year old with a "low IQ." If Jared Butler had played the same amount of minutes his freshman year that Yessoufou did, you would have been saying the same thing.

By no means should we break the bank to keep Yessoufou, but if he is back in college basketball next year (which he should be - won't be, but should be), then we should all hope he is playing for us as he matures.

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There are plenty of first year players who are less selfish and actually play defense. I don't like inefficient players. So if you prefer to tell everyone exactly what they should think, then go ahead. But there are people who do not like his brand of basketball and who are concerned that any development won't solve certain issues-bad shot selection and bad defense. I'm one of them.

bear2be2 said:

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canoso said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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I thought his body language was awful yesterday. Along with the stupid and selfish decisions. He will be gone to the draft, but even if he wants to play college basketball, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if he played elsewhere.

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If he's playing college ball next season, I'd prefer it to be for us. He's a guy who would make a big jump in Year 2 IMO.

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Agree. Takes some longer than others to show marked improvement. Patience........

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Most players get better with experience. And back when we prioritized it, we did a really good job of developing the guys in our program.

That's what has made me so damn frustrated by our post-title recruiting shift. We abandoned what we were really good at and won a championship with in favor of a quick-fix, "shiny object" pursuit that we've never had success with under Drew.

That unnecessary transition was, is and will always be mind-boggling to me. And after watching it stagnate our program to a state of abject mediocrity, I'm struggling to see how we get this train back on a track to national prominence.

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How much do you think we abandoned that strategy vs. we have had some "bad breaks" that have forced us into this corner?

Undoubtedly there has been an uptick on recruiting short-term rental upperclassmen and 5 star phenoms. But I also think of several guys that were probably recruited as building blocks that either blossomed earlier than expected and hit the draft or entered the transfer portal at inopportune times. Sochan, Missi, RWIII, LJ Cryer, Dain Dainja, etc.

While it's the staff's job to account for these variables, and they certainly have not handled portal well (I actually think they have handled NIL fine - it's why we've been able to consistently get the high-end 5 stars), I also think that context is important for how we view this roster and whether the coaching staff has completely jumped the shark on what their strategy is vs. not being adequately prepared for the landscape of the sport.

Also, I think we have been a victim of our own success in that coaching staff continuity also plays into that development. And we have lost a lot of our coaching staff to promotions/head coaching jobs. Now granted, CSD has not done a good job evaluating replacements (which is actually where I think he has struggled the most - he's had some big misses on staff evaluations), I still think there are bigger systemic issues than just that CSD has forgotten how/departed from what works in developing a program/roster.

Just my thoughts. Time to adjust to those systemic issues and get it right, either way.

Let's be real. This team was so challenged on both ends of the court that Carr and Tounde had to jack up way more shots than typical just to try to stay in games. If Tounde stays in college for another year, it should be Baylor's #1 priority to keep him - and Williams. Those two could be the core to build around.

DP4LIFE said:

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Let's be real. This team was so challenged on both ends of the court that Carr and Tounde had to jack up way more shots than typical just to try to stay in games. If Tounde stays in college for another year, it should be Baylor's #1 priority to keep him - and Williams. Those two could be the core to build around.

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When it comes to Yessoufou, the bulk of his shot selection issues revolved around settling for early 3s off one or fewer passes. Those are never shots that "need to be taken" by a 31-percent 3-point shooter. You'd pretty much always be better off working the ball and seeing if something better materializes.

I have no problems at all with Carr's shot selection. His percentages dictate that almost all of his shots are good shots. The only slight complaints I have about him offensively are on the occasional lazy pass or out-of-control drive looking for a foul call. But the good far outweighs any bad with him.

DP4LIFE said:

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Let's be real. This team was so challenged on both ends of the court that Carr and Tounde had to jack up way more shots than typical just to try to stay in games. If Tounde stays in college for another year, it should be Baylor's #1 priority to keep him - and Williams. Those two could be the core to build around.

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I'm all for keeping Williams.

Quinton said:

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Guitarbiscuit said:

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I would like him to move on as well. I'll take a player who is less athletic than he but has a higher basketball IQ. For me, there is nothing worse than low IQ. That's why I like our power forward. Despite athletic issues, he works hard and tries to do the right thing. So in sum, I hope his agent tells him to move on.

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Say what? He physically bodied one of the most physical defensive teams in college basketball.. on the road.

He's erratic and limited skill wise as a freshman. If Drew can get him another year, all else being equal you take it.

Half the time his concentration and energy was sporadic, the other half he was literally the only guy staying positive while emphasizing we simply weren't good enough. You can work with that.

He's got heart and energy, it needs to be molded. He avg 46% from the field (granted wild streaky swings from game to game) and 6 boards a game. You keep him if possible.

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Yeah, I have nothing against Tounde from any sort of character or motor perspective. He's just a young, raw player who's allowed to do more than he should be at times.

It was pretty clear early in the season that he was going to be a guy who needed to coached hard and held accountable with playing time when he stepped outside of his role, but our lack of depth never really allowed us to do that once conference play began.

He'd benefit a ton from a full offseason and a better, deeper roster that would allow him to focus on the things he does really well. I think he'd likely be one of the best players in the Big 12 next year if he returned.

bear2be2 said:

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DP4LIFE said:

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Let's be real. This team was so challenged on both ends of the court that Carr and Tounde had to jack up way more shots than typical just to try to stay in games. If Tounde stays in college for another year, it should be Baylor's #1 priority to keep him - and Williams. Those two could be the core to build around.

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When it comes to Yessoufou, the bulk of his shot selection issues revolved settling for early 3s off one or fewer passes. Those are never shots that "need to be taken" by a 31-percent 3-point shooter. You'd pretty much always be better off working the ball and seeing if something better materializes.

I have no problems at all with Carr's shot selection. His percentages dictate that almost all of his shots are good shots. The only slight complaints I have about him offensively are on the occasional lazy pass or out-of-control drive looking for a foul call. But the good far outweighs any bad with him.

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This is the very thing that I am wary about with Yessoufou. Will another year or 2 or 3 for that matter alleviate these things:

1. Chunking up contested 3's with 20 seconds left on the clock.
2. Failing to pass to an open player who is not covered and has better stats while he himself covered (saw this with an open Carr asking for the ball and he decided to take the shot himself). I can't tell you how much that pissed me off. And it kinda pisses me off that so many are giving this guy a pass just because he's a freshman. He played very selfishly, as if he was more concerned about boosting his NBA prospects than winning

3. Disappearing defensively and repeatedly letting people drive by him to the basket.


I do think he will get better, particularly at the defensive side. He started showing improvement there by late year. But offensively is where I have my doubts. Offensively I'm concerned he may always have a tendency to be a Kevin Willis type-when he gets the ball, the ball won't come back out.

Guitarbiscuit said:

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guadalupeoso said:

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Guitarbiscuit said:

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I would like him to move on as well. I'll take a player who is less athletic than he but has a higher basketball IQ. For me, there is nothing worse than low IQ. That's why I like our power forward. Despite athletic issues, he works hard and tries to do the right thing. So in sum, I hope his agent tells him to move on.

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What a braindead take. He's a true freshman, 19 year old who just learned to speak English and began playing organized basketball in the United States only 5 years ago. Sure he played basketball in Nigeria before, but the development he received there is nothing like what players here in the U.S. and Europe get from a young age.

He also averaged 18 points and 6 rebounds as a 19 year old with a "low IQ." If Jared Butler had played the same amount of minutes his freshman year that Yessoufou did, you would have been saying the same thing.

By no means should we break the bank to keep Yessoufou, but if he is back in college basketball next year (which he should be - won't be, but should be), then we should all hope he is playing for us as he matures.

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There are plenty of first year players who are less selfish and actually play defense. I don't like inefficient players. So if you prefer to tell everyone exactly what they should think, then go ahead. But there are people who do not like his brand of basketball and who are concerned that any development won't solve certain issues-bad shot selection and bad defense. I'm one of them.

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He doesn't have a brand of basketball. He's 19 years old. That's my whole point.