I remember how badly we wanted to recruit her and were continually rebuffed. Was surprised she only played 11 min yesterday and scored nothing. Maybe under our great coaching staff she could break out her skills and develop physically. Not sure why such a star is on the bench. Wish her the best, but not sure what has happened to her career. She certainly could have played better than some of the ducks on the court?

I was happy she was going to be a bear…grew up at Baylor, called it her "dream school". Wish she would have taken a breath before she pulled the plug on her commitment. However, when things blew up, it was a very emotional time for everyone…especially for a HS kid dealing with all that. I remember the talk being if she would be athletic enough for Nikki's style. To me she looked out of shape…a bit lumbering down the court. Lety (I think it was)was able to close on her 3 attempt and block it. I feel she has the talent. Maybe lacks the athleticism?

All the wailing and gnashing of teeth years ago because she was a "legacy". "Nicki can't coach or recruit" was posted by several haters posters.
She said she chose BU because of her love for Baylor then it changed to because of Mulkey but yet she did not follow Mulkey to LSU. WHY ?? Committed to Texas then reneged on that commitment when she realized she was not good enough to get much playing time there and signed with Oregon where now she has gained weight, and she is at the bottom of their second 5 at best.

Fact is she would not be in this team's top nine players either taking up a spot a better player should have. Which one of the currant team members would anyone trade for her if she had come to BU ??? - I would not trade any of our 13 for her - she actually did us a favor. I want team members whose commitment means something, and they commit because they WANT to be at BU.

Sammie was definitely a big talent in high school. She did seem out of shape and slow. Maybe she just has not focused on her conditioning. If she does not do this, she is going to have trouble with her college game.

She definitely would not be a fit for Nicki's system.

I don't think it is fair to be overly critical about her wavering on her commitment on colleges as a 17-18 year old. It's a huge decision being made by someone who is immature by definition. Discussion of her abilities and whether she is a fit for a particular system are fair game, but I give her a complete pass on the committing and decommitting stuff.

I will not diss her but I bet she wishes she had come to Baylor.

I do not give Sammie a pass - I know I am an old fart, but I was brought up that your word, promise, commitment meant something. The value of loyalty is nonexistent in the age of NIL. Where are the parents in all of this ???
She made a bad decision based on emotion, compounded it with another bad decision and then what appears to be at this time another bad decision. Maybe in the next three years something will change - we will see.
Contrast that with her best friend Maddie Cox another Baylor Legacy who did consider BU but she and her family made a good decision not to pursue BU because she wanted to go someplace where she could be Maddie Cox NOT Lauren Cox's baby sister. She is averaging about 14 minutes a game - she is not filling up the box score - having the typical freshman learning curve but she is getting to play on what looks to be a pretty good North Carolina State Team.
Like I said - the bottom line as far as I am concerned - we are a better team without Sammie then we would be with her. For that I say thank you and best of success to you Sammie.

Wagner is a poster child for recruiting projection.

Players offer physical abilities, skills, measurables, intangibles, etc. Recruiting is about determining the ceiling and basement of each grouping.

Posted way back when………Wagner was really high on skills but has a notable low basement/low ceiling on physical abilities and measurables. The high level college game tends to focus as much on limitations as abilities whereas HS Summer ball is all about what you can do and not what you can't do.

Fans tend to love high volume shooting scorers and tend to ignore that they can't guard a folding chair.

I lot of us had high hopes for the legacy Sammie. There were cute photos of her and KM and the such. The shared high school clips were pretty impressive. Sammie and the Cox sister were going to be the next generation of BU athletes.

It didn't work out. So it's time to move on.

She didn't look that impressive against us but it's a limited sample size. Maybe she works out for Oregon.

BearFan33 said:

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I lot of us had high hopes for the legacy Sammie. There were cute photos of her and KM and the such. The shared high school clips were pretty impressive. Sammie and the Cox sister were going to be the next generation of BU athletes.

It didn't work out. So it's time to move on.

She didn't look that impressive against us but it's a limited sample size. Maybe she works out for Oregon.

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Wouldn't be shocked if she tries to come closer to home. Oregon is very bad and she still is getting limited minutes.

fredbear said:

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I remember how badly we wanted to recruit her and were continually rebuffed. Was surprised she only played 11 min yesterday and scored nothing. Maybe under our great coaching staff she could break out her skills and develop physically. Not sure why such a star is on the bench. Wish her the best, but not sure what has happened to her career. She certainly could have played better than some of the ducks on the court?

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Sammie commited to Baylor in Junior HS, her dad is a BU grad and she attended several summer camps here. She decommited after KM left and later commited to Texas but eventually wound up in Oregon. Several posters, including me, think she looked a step slow. Others have suggested she peaked in HS. I think she will develop into a very good player after a season or two in their off-season program. The highlights I've seen indicate she is a good shooter and ball handler. She won't be able to maximize those skills until she works on a few things.

BU71 said:

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fredbear said:

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I remember how badly we wanted to recruit her and were continually rebuffed. Was surprised she only played 11 min yesterday and scored nothing. Maybe under our great coaching staff she could break out her skills and develop physically. Not sure why such a star is on the bench. Wish her the best, but not sure what has happened to her career. She certainly could have played better than some of the ducks on the court?

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Sammie commited to Baylor in Junior HS, her dad is a BU grad and she attended several summer camps here. She decommited after KM left and later commited to Texas but eventually wound up in Oregon. Several posters, including me, think she looked a step slow. Others have suggested she peaked in HS. I think she will develop into a very good player after a season or two in their off-season program. The highlights I've seen indicate she is a good shooter and ball handler. She won't be able to maximize those skills until she works on a few things.

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I posted when she decommitted that while her early High School performance keep her recruit ranking high she dropped into the low 40's by the end of her senior season. I never put a lot of stock in the ranking polls but a 20 point drop in a year has to be given some credence. Mostly I saw her upside as limited - Solid fundamentals, well coached but lacked several measurables necessary to be an Elite D1 baller - measurables that DLB and Bella have. No way I give up either one for Sammie.

blueeyedbear said:

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BU71 said:

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fredbear said:

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I remember how badly we wanted to recruit her and were continually rebuffed. Was surprised she only played 11 min yesterday and scored nothing. Maybe under our great coaching staff she could break out her skills and develop physically. Not sure why such a star is on the bench. Wish her the best, but not sure what has happened to her career. She certainly could have played better than some of the ducks on the court?

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Sammie commited to Baylor in Junior HS, her dad is a BU grad and she attended several summer camps here. She decommited after KM left and later commited to Texas but eventually wound up in Oregon. Several posters, including me, think she looked a step slow. Others have suggested she peaked in HS. I think she will develop into a very good player after a season or two in their off-season program. The highlights I've seen indicate she is a good shooter and ball handler. She won't be able to maximize those skills until she works on a few things.

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I posted when she decommitted that while her early High School performance keep her recruit ranking high she dropped into the low 40's by the end of her senior season. I never put a lot of stock in the ranking polls but a 20 point drop in a year has to be given some credence. Mostly I saw her upside as limited - Solid fundamentals, well coached but lacked several measurables necessary to be an Elite D1 baller - measurables that DLB and Bella have. No way I give up either one for Sammie.

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CNC struck gold with DLP & Bella, I don't think you could have two better pillars to build a program around. They appear to be as solid off the court as they are on the court.

BU71 said:

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blueeyedbear said:

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BU71 said:

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fredbear said:

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I remember how badly we wanted to recruit her and were continually rebuffed. Was surprised she only played 11 min yesterday and scored nothing. Maybe under our great coaching staff she could break out her skills and develop physically. Not sure why such a star is on the bench. Wish her the best, but not sure what has happened to her career. She certainly could have played better than some of the ducks on the court?

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Sammie commited to Baylor in Junior HS, her dad is a BU grad and she attended several summer camps here. She decommited after KM left and later commited to Texas but eventually wound up in Oregon. Several posters, including me, think she looked a step slow. Others have suggested she peaked in HS. I think she will develop into a very good player after a season or two in their off-season program. The highlights I've seen indicate she is a good shooter and ball handler. She won't be able to maximize those skills until she works on a few things.

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I posted when she decommitted that while her early High School performance keep her recruit ranking high she dropped into the low 40's by the end of her senior season. I never put a lot of stock in the ranking polls but a 20 point drop in a year has to be given some credence. Mostly I saw her upside as limited - Solid fundamentals, well coached but lacked several measurables necessary to be an Elite D1 baller - measurables that DLB and Bella have. No way I give up either one for Sammie.

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CNC struck gold with DLP & Bella, I don't think you could have two better pillars to build a program around. They appear to be as solid off the court as they are on the court.

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THAT IS THE FROSTING ON THE CAKE WITH BOTH - Actually the whole team are solid citizens !!!

The trajectory of Sammie is similar to that of LJ Rose a decade earlier. Like Sammie, he matured early, and like her was considered the best in his class by his frosh and soph years in high school, leading many to believe that he was a sure thing for college success, with possible professional aspirations to be realized. Sammie actually sustained her success in high school more than Rose did, but like him, found that the transition to the next level was shadowed by a lack of quickness and speed, and a vulnerability to the defense and mobility of players of equal or greater size.

I watched a televised game between Sammie's high school team when she was a senior, and a visiting team from Los Angeles, and I was surprised at how passive she was when guarded by a tall, athletic opponent. She managed a few points late in the game, but one would never guess that she was considered to be an elite talent by her playing style, despite an obvious set of skills which would enable her to succeed in contests typical of most high school.

At the time of her decommitment I noted on this board that I doubted that she would ever merit the high ranking that she had enjoyed earlier in her high school career, the same impression I had of LJ Rose as I watched him for the first time in a Baylor practice. These kinds of players, without regard to their assets off the floor, are traps for college coaches who have recruited them because when they do not perform at the level predicted by their high school careers, the parents and fans of these players assume that it was because of the coaches' decisions and teaching techniques, and more than a few of them wind up transferring, sometimes more than once. We see this in every sport, especially in situations where age is a contributing factor in dominant performances.

I haven't watched enough of Aaliyah Chavez tape but would you put her in this group that peaks early? Also very skilled and fairly athletic. Thoughts?

Exactly! They are mature young women and wonderful representatives of Baylor as well as great players. I would not be surprised if one or both are All Americans and/or Big 12 players of the year before they graduate.

After we beat Oregon, we are now dissing a young lady who formerly committed to Baylor? Hope she isn't reading this message board.

Dcheetah said:

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I haven't watched enough of Aaliyah Chavez tape but would you put her in this group that peaks early? Also very skilled and fairly athletic. Thoughts?

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Not exactly. But she isn't the dominant player some people claim.

She is a better athlete and better shooter than Wagner. Not close. But she isn't an elite athlete.

She is a quality shooter but like many women has a low release point. That item becomes an issue as she moves up in competition. She somewhat covers that weak spot with a quick release. But low release point is a problem and needs to be fixed.

It is hard to fully judge athleticism when she is routinely assigned the weakest player on the opposing team [consistently happens in Summer ball to protect scorers from foul trouble]. That single point is why it is imperative to get top players to attend camp at your school so you can force them to guard "good on good" to adequately assess their abilities and athleticism. No matter how many dunk videos someone watches, true athleticism is revealed on D not on O.

Also she has no left hand. She always finishes with the right. At her height that limitation is an issue in college.

End Game: her deficiencies are not as glaring as those of Wagner at same age. But need to see her guarding talent to get a true gauge on the floor/ceiling on her athleticism. And she has skill work remaining. Not close to a finished product.

Adriacus Peratuun said:

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Dcheetah said:

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I haven't watched enough of Aaliyah Chavez tape but would you put her in this group that peaks early? Also very skilled and fairly athletic. Thoughts?

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Not exactly. But she isn't the dominant player some people claim.


She is a better athlete and better shooter than Wagner. Not close. But she isn't an elite athlete.

She is a quality shooter but like many women has a low release point. That item becomes an issue as she moves up in competition. She somewhat covers that weak spot with a quick release. But low release point is a problem and needs to be fixed.

It is hard to fully judge athleticism when she is routinely assigned the weakest player on the opposing team [consistently happens in Summer ball to protect scorers from foul trouble]. That single point is why it is imperative to get top players to attend camp at your school so you can force them to guard "good on good" to adequately assess their abilities and athleticism. No matter how many dunk videos someone watches, true athleticism is revealed on D not on O.

Also she has no left hand. She always finishes with the right. At her height that limitation is an issue in college.

End Game: her deficiencies are not as glaring as those of Wagner at same age. But need to see her guarding talent to get a true gauge on the floor/ceiling on her athleticism. And she has skill work remaining. Not close to a finished product.

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I've seen her finish with her left hand and she is a great shooter that is very competitive and everyone in the country wants her.

Bear2393 said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

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Dcheetah said:

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I haven't watched enough of Aaliyah Chavez tape but would you put her in this group that peaks early? Also very skilled and fairly athletic. Thoughts?

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Not exactly. But she isn't the dominant player some people claim.


She is a better athlete and better shooter than Wagner. Not close. But she isn't an elite athlete.

She is a quality shooter but like many women has a low release point. That item becomes an issue as she moves up in competition. She somewhat covers that weak spot with a quick release. But low release point is a problem and needs to be fixed.

It is hard to fully judge athleticism when she is routinely assigned the weakest player on the opposing team [consistently happens in Summer ball to protect scorers from foul trouble]. That single point is why it is imperative to get top players to attend camp at your school so you can force them to guard "good on good" to adequately assess their abilities and athleticism. No matter how many dunk videos someone watches, true athleticism is revealed on D not on O.

Also she has no left hand. She always finishes with the right. At her height that limitation is an issue in college.

End Game: her deficiencies are not as glaring as those of Wagner at same age. But need to see her guarding talent to get a true gauge on the floor/ceiling on her athleticism. And she has skill work remaining. Not close to a finished product.

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I've seen her finish with her left hand and she is a great shooter that is very competitive and everyone in the country wants her.

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In the open air All Star game in NYC she tried to finish at the rim going left with the right hand. She made one low contest [right handed] but was also blocked 3 times thereafter. She stopped going left. That game was this past Summer.

FYI almost every top 25 program is after almost every Top 25 recruit almost every year. That reality isn't earth shattering news.

The difference is finding those players that merit the ranking and fit your system. Some players fit almost any system [B. Stewart], some are so good you design a system around them [B. Griner], and some need to fit what you are doing [98% of players]. Every year 50+% of Top 25 "can't miss" recruits flop horribly as freshmen. Recruiting and talent analysis is an inexact science [but getting better yearly].

BearTiger said:

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After we beat Oregon, we are now dissing a young lady who formerly committed to Baylor? Hope she isn't reading this message board

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My comments were not meant to disrespect Wagner. I was looking forward to her adding some height at at time when we didn't have as much as we were used to having. I had visions of Sammie Wagner at 6'1" and Mariam Dauda at 6'4" being foundational players here. I was put off when Wagner's rankings started to fall. When KM left I hoped that by her being a Baylor legacy she might stay with us but I felt like she might go to LSU.

When she commited to Texas I didn't think it was a good match for her so I was not surprised when she wound up in Oregon. I stand by my non-professional opinion that she looked to be a step slow. She has skills and may still develop into the player we thought she would be but that doesn't change my observation. I think Oregon will rebuild, like the TV announcers told us over and over again, but she will need to put in the work to get there.

Thx for your thoughts.

BearTiger said:

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After we beat Oregon, we are now dissing a young lady who formerly committed to Baylor? Hope she isn't reading this message board.

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Yes, I agree with you! I hope she is not reading this board. The coach left Baylor that she had committed to, she de committed and went somewhere else. That happens every day.

Bear2393 said:

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BearTiger said:

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After we beat Oregon, we are now dissing a young lady who formerly committed to Baylor? Hope she isn't reading this message board.

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Yes, I agree with you! I hope she is not reading this board. The coach left Baylor that she had committed to, she de committed and went somewhere else. That happens every day.

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Why is anyone here worried about Wagner reading this board or post? I seriously doubt she is. She has passed over this board like she had passed over BU and both parties believe they are better for it.

BTW, good to hear from you Setshot.