https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entertainment/how-nicki-collen-rebuilt-baylor-womens-basketball/

Good article. Thanks for posting.

That's funny. There's several regular posters on here who think she's failing miserably.

MrGolfguy said:

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That's funny. There's several regular posters on here who think she's failing miserably.

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You push the agenda that you want to have come to fruition.

Ummm no. Just stating the obvious.

MrGolfguy said:

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Ummm no. Just stating the obvious.

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Wasn't talking about you, but them.

Thanks for posting that historian. Very complimentary article.
Interesting Andrews staying with CNC to help her get to the W…might point to her using her Covid year to help get to that goal. Also interesting is CNC seems to answer the "why so long to retire BGs jersey" question that got so much debate.

Excellent article! Thanks for posting this.

Thank you so much for sharing.

Texas Monthly
Did not read

Currently sitting close to middle of the pack, yawn.,,

Flying Colors? Flying Colors? Did you say Flying Colors?
I have never blamed Nicki Collen for this mess, but PLEASE.

Nicki Collen Coaching Records

2023-24 Baylor Head Coach 23-6 TBD, Big XII 5th
2022-23 Baylor Head Coach 20-13 NCAA Second, Big XII 6th
2021-22 Baylor Head Coach 28-7 NCAA Second, Big XII 1st

Kim Mulkey Coaching Records

2020-21 Baylor Head Coach 28-3 NCAA Elite 8, Big XII 1st
2019-20 Baylor Head Coach 28-2 No postseason due to COVID-19, Big XII 1st
2018-19 Baylor Head Coach 37-1 NCAA Champion, Big XII 1st
2017-18 Baylor Head Coach 33-2 NCAA Sweet 16, Big XII 1st
2016-17 Baylor Head Coach 33-4 NCAA Elite Eight, Big XII 1st
2015-16 Baylor Head Coach 36-2 NCAA Elite Eight, Big XII 1st
2014-15 Baylor Head Coach 33-4 NCAA Elite Eight, Big XII 1st
2013-14 Baylor Head Coach 32-5 NCAA Elite Eight, Big XII 1st
2012-13 Baylor Head Coach 34-2 NCAA Sweet 16, Big XII 1st
2011-12 Baylor Head Coach 40-0 NCAA National Champions, Big XII 1st
2010-11 Baylor Head Coach 34-3 NCAA Elite Eight, Big XII 1st

You missed some of Kim Mulkey's record:

00-01 Big12 9-9 6th place
02-03 Big12 8-8 7th place
03-04 Big12 10-6 4th place
09-10 Big12 9-7 6th place

Golf, here is the accurate info those 5 years you put up. To be fair to Mulkey, she took over losing program in 2000, with no talent, no top recruits, no name BWBB. She built the losing program from the ground up years 2000-2004 with nothing to sell other than an Asst Coach coming from successful LA Tech. To compare, Coach N took over 3X Natl Championship program with future WNBA stars. Our 2009-2010 conference record 9-7 before NCAA Tourney didn't matter, because Baylor made it count, they went to the Final Four with year-end national ranking #4.
I love and support Coach N and believe she will get us back on the road towards the Final Four again. It's taking us longer than anticipated. Once she figures out how to bring in top 10/15 recruits, and top 10/15 transfers, we will get there.

BearTiger said:

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Golf, here is the accurate info those 5 years you put up. To be fair to Mulkey, she took over losing program in 2000, with no talent, no top recruits, no name BWBB. She built the losing program from the ground up years 2000-2004 with nothing to sell other than an Asst Coach coming from successful LA Tech. To compare, Coach N took over 3X Natl Championship program with future WNBA stars. Our 2009-2010 conference record 9-7 before NCAA Tourney didn't matter, because Baylor made it count, they went to the Final Four with year-end national ranking #4.
I love and support Coach N and believe she will get us back on the road towards the Final Four again. It's taking us longer than anticipated. Once she figures out how to bring in top 10/15 recruits, and top 10/15 transfers, we will get there.

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Nice sermon; preach it to GrizBear, he's the hater. I'm a NC fan, have been since she got here.

It was not a sermon, it was not preaching, it was giving out complete, factual info. If you're an NC fan, why are you coming over here on our Baylor board? Why aren't you over at the Heels board? We Baylor fans like to stick together and not pit one Bear against another.

So did you. 04-05 season comes to mind. I think we did pretty well that season.

BearTiger said:

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It was not a sermon, it was not preaching, it was giving out complete, factual info. If you're an NC fan, why are you coming over here on our Baylor board? Why aren't you over at the Heels board? We Baylor fans like to stick together and not pit one Bear against another.

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Kim did have a good 1st year record 21-9 and q2-2 non-con and 9-7 B12. Sonja the year before I think only won 7 games. Major improvement. However, to say that she had no talent to work with in the 2000-01 season is not accurate. Here is the roster from Kim's 1st year. Sheila Lambert came over with Bill Brock where she had been a juco AA.

http://www.fansonly.com/schools/bay/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/lambert_sheila00.html

Kim did have a good 1st year record 21-9 and q2-2 non-con and 9-7 B12. Sonja the year before I think only won 7 games. Major improvement. However, to say that she had no talent to work with in the 2000-01 season is not accurate. Here is the roster from Kim's 1st year. Sheila Lambert came over with Bill Brock where she had been a juco AA.

http://www.fansonly.com/schools/bay/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/lambert_sheila00.html

If link not working:
Danielle Cockrum
Jessica Lambert
Jessica Stratton
Monica Arnold
Chanelle Fox

MrGolfguy said:

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BearTiger said:

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Golf, here is the accurate info those 5 years you put up. To be fair to Mulkey, she took over losing program in 2000, with no talent, no top recruits, no name BWBB. She built the losing program from the ground up years 2000-2004 with nothing to sell other than an Asst Coach coming from successful LA Tech. To compare, Coach N took over 3X Natl Championship program with future WNBA stars. Our 2009-2010 conference record 9-7 before NCAA Tourney didn't matter, because Baylor made it count, they went to the Final Four with year-end national ranking #4.
I love and support Coach N and believe she will get us back on the road towards the Final Four again. It's taking us longer than anticipated. Once she figures out how to bring in top 10/15 recruits, and top 10/15 transfers, we will get there.

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Nice sermon; preach it to GrizBear, he's the hater. I'm a NC fan, have been since she got here.

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You, like the Texas Monthly writer, see dominance descend to mediocrity and think "flying colors."

BearTiger said:

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I love and support Coach N and believe she will get us back on the road towards the Final Four again. It's taking us longer than anticipated. Once she figures out how to bring in top 10/15 recruits, and top 10/15 transfers, we will get there.

---

Based on what (see bolded above)? And I ask that in the most serious, non-confrontational way that I can. Let's look at it from two perspectives. If this is too involved to read, don't, but it apparently needs to be said.......again.

First compare our situation to that of some other long-standing elite programs that lost their HOF-level coach. Let's just look at three that are relatively recent and well-known to us, Tennessee, UT, and ND. I should first preface this by pointing out that in each case each school had ample notice that the coach was not going to be there for the next season. We had no advance notice. We got dumped and dumped very late. It doesn't matter who was at fault.....the bottom line is that we got dumped with no prior notice or even expectation that it was to happen. We are talking here about recovering from that happening, not why it happened. HS recruits and potential transfers were pretty much set for the next season as to where they would go, leaving no real time for quality damage control.

Now on to the three schools above..

Tennessee.......likely one of the most storied programs in WBB history still has not recovered from the loss of Pat. They are no where to be found in the top 25 and I think one or two seasons after she left they barely made the tournament. They are no where near back to the level to which they were accustomed.

UT......we know their history after Jody retired. They struggled through two coaches before Vic finally has them back. They even hired what was considered at the time to be an elite coach, Gail Goestenkors. It was a complete disaster. Then came Aston (nothing needs to be said).

ND....a shorter history since Muffett retired, but into the 4th year the best they have done is some sweet sixteens, but currently sit only 3 spots above us in the current AP poll today.

What do these programs have in common with us? They lost their long-time elite coach and have either taken years to get back to where they were in the case of UT, but are still struggling in the case of the other two. So, based on factual history, why should anyone have had expectations that Baylor would be any different? If you want to start talking about the roster left, I'll discuss that in the next perspective.

Some have based their assessment in questioning why we are not yet back at the level to which we were used to because of what was left on the roster. We had a roster of 9 and we only had 9 because we got a walk-on to join the team. Most of the incoming transfers bailed before a new coach was even named. Sure we had some great ones left which allowed us to win one more XII championship, but they were all seniors, and of the rest, only Bickle had seen much meaningful playing time in Mulkey's last year. We were lucky to have a team. If Smith and Egbo had decided to leave we would have been toast, as a team that season and a program to boot. They could have seen the new coach and said see you later, but they stayed. Apparently they saw something worth staying for.

Now, put yourself in the shoes of an upper to elite level HS senior player or possible transfer in the fall of 2021 considering where you would be going for the 2021-2022 season. You were probably considering Baylor because of the coach (KM) and now all of a sudden she is gone. You know nothing about the new coach (whoever it might be). Yes, Baylor had some great players for the upcoming season, but they would be leaving. Is it too much to understand that you have second thoughts and start looking around for other options until you or others see how it works out?

Some would say we could have hired another well-known great coach. But who would want to take the risk? I provided examples above of what happened to other schools when the elite coach left. Heck, UT thought they hit the jackpot with Goestenkors. Well, that didn't age well. There is no upside for an established coach at an elite level to take the risk in leaving their current position to start over again at Baylor or anywhere else for that matter. I know you have all heard the expression that you want to be the coach that follows the coach who followed the elite coach.

CNC did well in getting Buggs and Bella. Hopefully others will follow. But when Mulkey left, the allure of Baylor to elite recruits took a huge hit that takes time to re-establish. KM could have gone anywhere, literally anywhere and attracted recruits because the coach is the real magnet to draw them to a school. It is grossly unfair to throw in any argument comparing what was left at Baylor and what was left at LSU. One had the elite coach coming in. The other is from where that coach left. Those situations are not even comparable, especially under the timing of when the coach left.

So, I'll ask again, On what is the statement of "why is it taking longer than expected" based upon. It sure isn't the history of the sport when HOF-level coaches leave. I think we all had/have hopes that we will get back to where we were as soon as possible. But I believe we need to frame any expectations by the reality of the situation and not let them be dictated by what we hope or would like to happen. None of us know how this will turn out. We never knew in Mulkey's first years how she and the program would turn out. Thus far I don't believe it is taking any longer than what history tells us it should take. I will say that in a few years we will know whether we are an accelerated Texas or the next Tennessee. But right now I would not place a bet on either.

GrizBear said:

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MrGolfguy said:

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BearTiger said:

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Golf, here is the accurate info those 5 years you put up. To be fair to Mulkey, she took over losing program in 2000, with no talent, no top recruits, no name BWBB. She built the losing program from the ground up years 2000-2004 with nothing to sell other than an Asst Coach coming from successful LA Tech. To compare, Coach N took over 3X Natl Championship program with future WNBA stars. Our 2009-2010 conference record 9-7 before NCAA Tourney didn't matter, because Baylor made it count, they went to the Final Four with year-end national ranking #4.
I love and support Coach N and believe she will get us back on the road towards the Final Four again. It's taking us longer than anticipated. Once she figures out how to bring in top 10/15 recruits, and top 10/15 transfers, we will get there.

---

Nice sermon; preach it to GrizBear, he's the hater. I'm a NC fan, have been since she got here.

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You, like the Texas Monthly writer, see dominance descend to mediocrity and think "flying colors."

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Nope, not at all. Just didn't like your cherry picked stats & called you out on it. And if you didn't realize there would be a downturn in the program after our unicorn HOF coach took her ball & went home, then you're dumber than I already think you are.

Eff Texas Monthly!

MrGolfguy said:

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GrizBear said:

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MrGolfguy said:

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BearTiger said:

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Golf, here is the accurate info those 5 years you put up. To be fair to Mulkey, she took over losing program in 2000, with no talent, no top recruits, no name BWBB. She built the losing program from the ground up years 2000-2004 with nothing to sell other than an Asst Coach coming from successful LA Tech. To compare, Coach N took over 3X Natl Championship program with future WNBA stars. Our 2009-2010 conference record 9-7 before NCAA Tourney didn't matter, because Baylor made it count, they went to the Final Four with year-end national ranking #4.
I love and support Coach N and believe she will get us back on the road towards the Final Four again. It's taking us longer than anticipated. Once she figures out how to bring in top 10/15 recruits, and top 10/15 transfers, we will get there.

---

Nice sermon; preach it to GrizBear, he's the hater. I'm a NC fan, have been since she got here.

---

You, like the Texas Monthly writer, see dominance descend to mediocrity and think "flying colors."

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Nope, not at all. Just didn't like your cherry picked stats & called you out on it. And if you didn't realize there would be a downturn in the program after our unicorn HOF coach took her ball & went home, then you're dumber than I already think you are.

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If eleven straight years of Big XII dominance, a 368-28 overall record and 2 national championships are cherry picked stats, you should stick to watching golf. Mediocrity suits you, and that's okay.

You are dense; don't even know the definition of cherry picked.

blackie said:

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BearTiger said:

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I love and support Coach N and believe she will get us back on the road towards the Final Four again. It's taking us longer than anticipated. Once she figures out how to bring in top 10/15 recruits, and top 10/15 transfers, we will get there.

---

Based on what (see bolded above)? And I ask that in the most serious, non-confrontational way that I can. Let's look at it from two perspectives. If this is too involved to read, don't, but it apparently needs to be said.......again.

First compare our situation to that of some other long-standing elite programs that lost their HOF-level coach. Let's just look at three that are relatively recent and well-known to us, Tennessee, UT, and ND. I should first preface this by pointing out that in each case each school had ample notice that the coach was not going to be there for the next season. We had no advance notice. We got dumped and dumped very late. It doesn't matter who was at fault.....the bottom line is that we got dumped with no prior notice or even expectation that it was to happen. We are talking here about recovering from that happening, not why it happened. HS recruits and potential transfers were pretty much set for the next season as to where they would go, leaving no real time for quality damage control.

Now on to the three schools above..

Tennessee.......likely one of the most storied programs in WBB history still has not recovered from the loss of Pat. They are no where to be found in the top 25 and I think one or two seasons after she left they barely made the tournament. They are no where near back to the level to which they were accustomed.

UT......we know their history after Jody retired. They struggled through two coaches before Vic finally has them back. They even hired what was considered at the time to be an elite coach, Gail Goestenkors. It was a complete disaster. Then came Aston (nothing needs to be said).

ND....a shorter history since Muffett retired, but into the 4th year the best they have done is some sweet sixteens, but currently sit only 3 spots above us in the current AP poll today.

What do these programs have in common with us? They lost their long-time elite coach and have either taken years to get back to where they were in the case of UT, but are still struggling in the case of the other two. So, based on factual history, why should anyone have had expectations that Baylor would be any different? If you want to start talking about the roster left, I'll discuss that in the next perspective.

Some have based their assessment in questioning why we are not yet back at the level to which we were used to because of what was left on the roster. We had a roster of 9 and we only had 9 because we got a walk-on to join the team. Most of the incoming transfers bailed before a new coach was even named. Sure we had some great ones left which allowed us to win one more XII championship, but they were all seniors, and of the rest, only Bickle had seen much meaningful playing time in Mulkey's last year. We were lucky to have a team. If Smith and Egbo had decided to leave we would have been toast, as a team that season and a program to boot. They could have seen the new coach and said see you later, but they stayed. Apparently they saw something worth staying for.

Now, put yourself in the shoes of an upper to elite level HS senior player or possible transfer in the fall of 2021 considering where you would be going for the 2021-2022 season. You were probably considering Baylor because of the coach (KM) and now all of a sudden she is gone. You know nothing about the new coach (whoever it might be). Yes, Baylor had some great players for the upcoming season, but they would be leaving. Is it too much to understand that you have second thoughts and start looking around for other options until you or others see how it works out?

Some would say we could have hired another well-known great coach. But who would want to take the risk? I provided examples above of what happened to other schools when the elite coach left. Heck, UT thought they hit the jackpot with Goestenkors. Well, that didn't age well. There is no upside for an established coach at an elite level to take the risk in leaving their current position to start over again at Baylor or anywhere else for that matter. I know you have all heard the expression that you want to be the coach that follows the coach who followed the elite coach.

CNC did well in getting Buggs and Bella. Hopefully others will follow. But when Mulkey left, the allure of Baylor to elite recruits took a huge hit that takes time to re-establish. KM could have gone anywhere, literally anywhere and attracted recruits because the coach is the real magnet to draw them to a school. It is grossly unfair to throw in any argument comparing what was left at Baylor and what was left at LSU. One had the elite coach coming in. The other is from where that coach left. Those situations are not even comparable, especially under the timing of when the coach left.

So, I'll ask again, On what is the statement of "why is it taking longer than expected" based upon. It sure isn't the history of the sport when HOF-level coaches leave. I think we all had/have hopes that we will get back to where we were as soon as possible. But I believe we need to frame any expectations by the reality of the situation and not let them be dictated by what we hope or would like to happen. None of us know how this will turn out. We never knew in Mulkey's first years how she and the program would turn out. Thus far I don't believe it is taking any longer than what history tells us it should take. I will say that in a few years we will know whether we are an accelerated Texas or the next Tennessee. But right now I would not place a bet on either.

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Hang this comment in the Louvre. Love everything about it.

I would also add to it the other factor(s) that make this "rebuild," set in historical context, unique: Transfer portal and NIL.

Those two things have created a new world that we are only in the VERY early stages of. It will result in many changes, good and bad. One good (or bad, depending on what team colors you wear) result, I believe, will be the expansion of the top tiers of elite teams from just a handful to a bigger handful. I am convinced that 20 years from now we will look back on this period and realize that South Carolina was the last WBB dynasty. Parity will bring a lot more new teams to the Final Four, leaving the fanbases of Baylor, UConn, South Carolina, LSU, etc. wondering "Why have we declined?!" The quicker we can get used to the new reality, the quicker we can celebrate truly successful years like the one we are currently having.

historian said:

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https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entertainment/how-nicki-collen-rebuilt-baylor-womens-basketball/

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Super article. And wow how much I love listening to her in press conferences. What allot ofmpwoplw don't realize how much the women's game has changed. 5 to 10 years ago there was maybe 3 or 4 good teams, now over half the teams in the country are good teams. I wish the beat for her and and am glad she is our coach.

Nice article. Hope we can win at least 2 tournament (ncaa) games.

joseywales said:

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historian said:

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https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entertainment/how-nicki-collen-rebuilt-baylor-womens-basketball/

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Super article. And wow how much I love listening to her in press conferences. What allot ofmpwoplw don't realize how much the women's game has changed. 5 to 10 years ago there was maybe 3 or 4 good teams, now over half the teams in the country are good teams. I wish the beat for her and and am glad she is our coach.

---

Good article. Baylor wasn't dominant in KM's early years. Then she won NC in 2005 that was a huge upset and surprise. Things improved after that. If she had encouraged players to shoot and make threes, she might have won a couple more. One NC with a once in a lifetime player like Griner is somewhat of under performance as I recall.

Threebears said:

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joseywales said:

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historian said:

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https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entertainment/how-nicki-collen-rebuilt-baylor-womens-basketball/

---

Super article. And wow how much I love listening to her in press conferences. What allot ofmpwoplw don't realize how much the women's game has changed. 5 to 10 years ago there was maybe 3 or 4 good teams, now over half the teams in the country are good teams. I wish the beat for her and and am glad she is our coach.

---

Good article. Baylor wasn't dominant in KM's early years. Then she won NC in 2005 that was a huge upset and surprise. Things improved after that. If she had encouraged players to shoot and make threes, she might have won a couple more. One NC with a once in a lifetime player like Griner is somewhat of under performance as I recall.

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People that question a coach that has won 4 national championships and has the best winning percentage ever, must not know anything about athletics!!

Bear2393 said:

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Threebears said:

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joseywales said:

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historian said:

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https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entertainment/how-nicki-collen-rebuilt-baylor-womens-basketball/

---

Super article. And wow how much I love listening to her in press conferences. What allot ofmpwoplw don't realize how much the women's game has changed. 5 to 10 years ago there was maybe 3 or 4 good teams, now over half the teams in the country are good teams. I wish the beat for her and and am glad she is our coach.

---

Good article. Baylor wasn't dominant in KM's early years. Then she won NC in 2005 that was a huge upset and surprise. Things improved after that. If she had encouraged players to shoot and make threes, she might have won a couple more. One NC with a once in a lifetime player like Griner is somewhat of under performance as I recall.

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People that question a coach that has won 4 national championships and has the best winning percentage ever, must not know anything about athletics!!

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No one is questioning Kim, just pointing out that it took a few years to get it going.

Excellent analysis. I think some of us (most?) were spoiled and expecting the huge change to result in a minor blip at most. Clearly, that kind of thinking was unrealistic.

It takes years to build up a championship level program from scratch. Nikki at least had a foundation to build on but it wasn't much. She couldn't claim credit for any of the earlier accomplishments.

Also, snd ivd said this before, even if Kim had remained building up to another championship would have been difficult and slow because of how the sport is evolving. I think there is more parity nationally, and within the Big 12, than there was a few years ago.it's good gif the sport to be more competitive but bad for individual programs trying to remain at the top. Look at UConn.

BUBBFAN said:

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Bear2393 said:

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Threebears said:

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joseywales said:

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historian said:

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https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entertainment/how-nicki-collen-rebuilt-baylor-womens-basketball/

---

Super article. And wow how much I love listening to her in press conferences. What allot ofmpwoplw don't realize how much the women's game has changed. 5 to 10 years ago there was maybe 3 or 4 good teams, now over half the teams in the country are good teams. I wish the beat for her and and am glad she is our coach.

---

Good article. Baylor wasn't dominant in KM's early years. Then she won NC in 2005 that was a huge upset and surprise. Things improved after that. If she had encouraged players to shoot and make threes, she might have won a couple more. One NC with a once in a lifetime player like Griner is somewhat of under performance as I recall.

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People that question a coach that has won 4 national championships and has the best winning percentage ever, must not know anything about athletics!!

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No one is questioning Kim, just pointing out that it took a few years to get it going.

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So, by saying "If she had encouraged players to shoot and make threes, she might have won a couple more. One NC with a once in a lifetime player like Griner is somewhat of under performance as I recall." Sounds like putting down her coaching ability!

GrizBear said:

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Flying Colors? Flying Colors? Did you say Flying Colors?
I have never blamed Nicki Collen for this mess, but PLEASE.

Nicki Collen Coaching Records

2023-24 Baylor Head Coach 23-6 TBD, Big XII 5th
2022-23 Baylor Head Coach 20-13 NCAA Second, Big XII 6th
2021-22 Baylor Head Coach 28-7 NCAA Second, Big XII 1st

Kim Mulkey Coaching Records

2020-21 Baylor Head Coach 28-3 NCAA Elite 8, Big XII 1st
2019-20 Baylor Head Coach 28-2 No postseason due to COVID-19, Big XII 1st
2018-19 Baylor Head Coach 37-1 NCAA Champion, Big XII 1st
2017-18 Baylor Head Coach 33-2 NCAA Sweet 16, Big XII 1st
2016-17 Baylor Head Coach 33-4 NCAA Elite Eight, Big XII 1st
2015-16 Baylor Head Coach 36-2 NCAA Elite Eight, Big XII 1st
2014-15 Baylor Head Coach 33-4 NCAA Elite Eight, Big XII 1st
2013-14 Baylor Head Coach 32-5 NCAA Elite Eight, Big XII 1st
2012-13 Baylor Head Coach 34-2 NCAA Sweet 16, Big XII 1st
2011-12 Baylor Head Coach 40-0 NCAA National Champions, Big XII 1st
2010-11 Baylor Head Coach 34-3 NCAA Elite Eight, Big XII 1st

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To be fair, you need to show Kim's first three years vs. Nicki's first three years.