What KM took over and what NC took over are night and day different. NC took over a team that had won 3 NC's and 11 straight Big 12 titles. KM took over a team that had never played in a single NCAA tournament game.

baylor1984 said:

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What KM took over and what NC took over are night and day different. NC took over a team that had won 3 NC's....

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The players on the team that won the 2005 Natty were about 36 years old when Nicki took over. In other words...
IRRELEVANT

The big players on Kim's most recent NC at Baylor were Lauren Cox, Kalani Brown, Juicy and Chloe and Nalyssa. Only Nalyssa remained from that team. Not quite the same as inheriting a NC team.

CNC may have inherited a small roster. But she inherited a damm talented roster. That's not up for debate.
I have no idea what Kim inherited as I was 6 years old. But one would assume since they had never made the tournament that she inherited very very little.
Apples to Oranges

If it's irrelevant they why did/do, they always roll out all those trophies for recruits and possible transfers to see. Baylor WBB is a Bluebood. Winning matters and Baylor WBB did a hell of a lot of it in the previous 19 seasons.

Baylor was preseason ranked #7 in the nation in 2021 coming off a 28-3 season with a 17-1 conference record. In 2000 Baylor was coming off a 7-20 season with a 2-14 conference record never having played in a single NCAA game in their history. Yeah, those two starting points are just a like. People really can't be this fcking stupid.

Kim tried to take Nalyssa and Sarah and I think Queen to LSU with her but they decided to stay. CNC did inherit some very talented players but only 1 player was considered a star - Nalyssa. Queen was very good but very inconsistent, Sarah had played little under Kim and grew alot her 1st year under CNC. Jordyn was recruited by CNC as were Jamee and Kendra. Kamaria and Kendra both had injuries that limited or prevented effective play. Jordan and Caitlin were not asked to go to LSU and both improved alot under CNC. If Caitlin had been able to stay healthy, she could have been even considerably better, particularly with her outside shooting 1st yr. Anyway, CNC definitely had talent but only 7 that could play and of those 7, 2 were injured much of the year (Sarah and Caitlin) and 2 injured that hardly played (Kamaria and Kendra). Her problem was players wearing down. We won conference that first year even with those limitations.

Kim did have some good talent on the roster when she started 2000-01 season. Players on that 1st team included:
Danielle Cockrum
Sheila Lambert
Monica Arnold
Jessika Stratton
Chanelle Fox

She was 9-7 in conference and 12-2 Non-con for a 21-9 record her 1st year. First 4 yrs for Kim - good. 5th year was magical.

2020-21 team that finished 28-3 had the following players:

Nalyssa, Queen, Dijonai, Didi, Moon, Hannah Gusters, Trinity Oliver, Jordan Oliver, Sarah Andrews, JO, and Caitlin. Obviously a more talented team and more depth. Kim left late in the year and CNC had a short time to cobble together what turned out to be a good initial class. Sonja retired Feb 2000 giving Kim the entire 2000 AAU spring and summer season to put together her first class. Preseason rankings are often worthless because of variables that come up in a season. The 21 team also had to learn an entirely new offense and defense and even with their player limitations finished 1st in conference and 15-3 in conference after losing the 1st 2, and 28-7 overall.

The 2000 team that Kim started with was more talented than the 1999 team that Sonja ended with. However Sonja-s team in 98-99 was 17-14 and 20-11 the year before that so there was some baseline talent. You can see in the post above that Kim's initial team had some good talent too.


Kim won her first title in her 5th year but that was the only time she won conference until her 11th year when BG came along and she started her 11 consecutive conference title run. After her 1st championship in 2005 Baylor wbb finished 2-6 in conference ( most 2nd or 3rd, 6th year before BG and 2 yrs before second title).
Conference was also not as competitive then as now. Give CNC some time and NIL support to get the players she needs and hopefully we can regain top team status.

One minor detail - it's easy to retire in February when your team is done after the first game of the conference tournament. Back then, those players got to enjoy spring break in early March because there was no post season run. I believe CKM's team played through the weekend before the Final Four in '21, so very late in March, before they were done. Because CKM chose to finish the year before making the decision to leave is what pushed the timeframe. That, and we'd have to know the date things blew up with Admin to know the timing of it all. Either way, blaming her for late departure that year is not exactly fair in my book.

Threebears said:

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joseywales said:

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historian said:

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https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entertainment/how-nicki-collen-rebuilt-baylor-womens-basketball/

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Super article. And wow how much I love listening to her in press conferences. What allot ofmpwoplw don't realize how much the women's game has changed. 5 to 10 years ago there was maybe 3 or 4 good teams, now over half the teams in the country are good teams. I wish the beat for her and and am glad she is our coach.

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Good article. Baylor wasn't dominant in KM's early years. Then she won NC in 2005 that was a huge upset and surprise. Things improved after that. If she had encouraged players to shoot and make threes, she might have won a couple more. One NC with a once in a lifetime player like Griner is somewhat of under performance as I recall.

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A couple means two...right?

I'm not sure if post was a joke, but KM did win a couple more National Titles in 2012 and 2019.

IowaBear said:

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CNC may have inherited a small roster. But she inherited a damm talented roster. That's not up for debate.
I have no idea what Kim inherited as I was 6 years old. But one would assume since they had never made the tournament that she inherited very very little.
Apples to Oranges

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I was in school when Kim first came to Harvard on the Brazos.

As DCheetah keeps mentioning, the talent on Mulkeys first two teams wasn't bad at all.

Sheilah Lambert and Danielle Cockrum were excellent players.
The 2001 team missed making the NCAA tournament by one team.
TCU won the WAC conference title and knocked us off the bubble into the NIT.

The 2002 team was a #2 seed They went 27-6 and finished 2nd in the BIG12......but they got upset at home in the 2nd round by some no name school from Nebraska or Iowa. I was at that game, and I'm still shocked that we lost.

The 2003 team lost in the NIT Finals

Method Man said:

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The 2002 team was a #2 seed They went 27-6 and finished 2nd in the BIG12......but they got upset at home in the 2nd round by some no name school from Nebraska or Iowa. I was at that game, and I'm still shocked that we lost.

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Drake, I'll never forget. That loss was the Mulkey loss that equates to the South Dakota loss for Nicki.

baylorbear33 said:

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One minor detail - it's easy to retire in February when your team is done after the first game of the conference tournament. Back then, those players got to enjoy spring break in early March because there was no post season run. I believe CKM's team played through the weekend before the Final Four in '21, so very late in March, before they were done. Because CKM chose to finish the year before making the decision to leave is what pushed the timeframe. That, and we'd have to know the date things blew up with Admin to know the timing of it all. Either way, blaming her for late departure that year is not exactly fair in my book.

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Some relevant dates:

• Baylor loses to UCON on March 29

• Men win natty on April 5

• Parade in Waco on April 13
• Reports made public that LSU coach Nikki Fargas has stepped down - April 15

• Kim makes statement on radio show (or podcast) about going home to Louisiana - April 16

• LSU officially announce that their basketball coach is stepping down - April 24

• LSU announces hiring of Kim - April 25

Leonidas said:

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Some relevant dates:

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Relevant, LOL. I see what you did there; well played

IowaBear, our family attended many games in the 1990's before Mulkey. Those days we were irrelevant, very few cared about WBB, no one showed up to the games, maybe 500. It was depressing and humiliating at times seeing our team lose so many games and look dejected. Then Mulkey came in 2000 and took us to our very first NCAA Tourney. Can't tell you how excited we were that year and thereafter. There is no comparison, 1st year of Mulkey vs 1st year Collen. Fast forward to today, I think Collen can improve every year to get us to a Final Four. Important to get top 10/15 recruits and top 10/15 transfers. That's where it all starts.

BearTiger said:

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IowaBear, our family attended many games in the 1990's before Mulkey. Those days we were irrelevant, very few cared about WBB, no one showed up to the games, maybe 500. It was depressing and humiliating at times seeing our team lose so many games and look dejected. Then Mulkey came in 2000 and took us to our very first NCAA Tourney. Can't tell you how excited we were that year and thereafter. There is no comparison, 1st year of Mulkey vs 1st year Collen. Fast forward to today, I think Collen can improve every year to get us to a Final Four. Important to get top 10/15 recruits and top 10/15 transfers. That's where it all starts.

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In NC's first year she won the BIGXII.
In Mulkey's first year they went to the NIT.

We made the Big Dance in Mulkey's 2nd year which was the 2001-02 season.

I'm big fan of KM....but lets make sure we get our facts right.

Honestly beartiger…true, not many people cared much at all about WBB in general back then. WBB has grown exponentially since then for a number of reasons. Glad for it.

I recall driving from Houston with my wife and two young daughters for the NIT finals at Ferrell against Penn State. Around 10,000 in attendance. One of the larger crowds at Ferrell in those days. I'll give Sonja Hogg credit for laying the groundwork for Mulkey to arrive even though she had a bad last season.

Of course, it's not like our men's team was going to the NCAA's in the 90's either.

MethodMan, yes let's get our facts straight. Our family has been going to games every year since early 1990s, including the first year of Mulkey. Baylor went to the NCAA Tourney her very first year and her 2nd year. 3rd year was the NIT Final, only year she didn't go to NCAA.
Mulkey's first year at Baylor was documented as the biggest one-year turnaround in the history of NCAA women's basketball. And for that, Baylor will always be in the history books. She was an Asst Coach when she took the Baylor HC job in 2000. Baylor took a chance on her. Mulkey has taken 19 of 20 teams to NCAA Tourneys. 1 year was not counted because NCAA Tourney was canceled due to covid. That covid year our record was 28-2 with #2 ranking.