J.B.Katz said:

---

Drango Unchained said:

---

A very interesting thread on the cbn issue mentioned in this thread

1/ Got thoughts on pirates? Like petty drama and/or care about abuse in the nation’s 2nd-largest Christian denom?

GOOD NEWS: I have an absurdly long and meticulously sourced #thread for you thats crucial to understanding that historic report on Southern Baptist abuse

— Robert Downen (@RobDownenChron) May 24, 2022

---

So the Conservative Baptist Network launched with the help of Paige Patterson, who jeered about abuse of women. And its members worked to run off both Russell Moore and Beth Moore.

---

I noticed there is no Texas chapter of CBN. Hopefully that is because Patterson is too well known and his involvement in CBN erodes any trust. The world would be better off without the SBC, CBF, CBN and BNG….maybe all the acronym groups. Leadership pride and arrogance destroyed the cooperation possibilities which had been effective for half a century.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/24/pastor-confesses-adultery-teenager/

Now the #@$% is going to start hitting the fan.

Here's a story about a pastor at a big nondenominational church who makes a self-aggrandizing confession of adultery, which is followed by his victim's confronting him in front of the entire congregation with the fact that she was 16 when the abuse started in his office at the church and that the abuse continued for 9 years. She was driven to bring forward her allegations because her brother could not forget seeing her in bed with the minister.

Some congregants will readily forgive this man and villify his victim. But this incident will crack open the congregation and reveals that for longer than 9 years, this pastor preached about adultery and sin while victimizing a young woman in his congregation.

J.B.Katz said:

---

Some congregants will readily forgive this man and villify his victim.

---

What is the purpose and proof of this statement? Especially the second half of it?

Not everyone is out to blame the victim. In fact, I would guess that few do. Those that do must have something deficient in their psyche.

This seems to be a common thread in your posts.

Coke Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Some congregants will readily forgive this man and villify his victim.

---

What is the purpose and proof of this statement? Especially the second half of it?

Not everyone is out to blame the victim. In fact, I would guess that few do. Those that do must have something deficient in their psyche.

This seems to be a common thread in your posts.

---

From Michael Gerson's column: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/23/southern-baptist-sexual-abuse-culture-of-misogyny/

Consider a meeting between one survivor, Christa Brown, and the Southern Baptist Convention's bylaws work group. "Some opposed her even being allowed to speak," the report states, and an Executive Committee member "turned his back to her during her speech and another chortled."

Is it possible to imagine a more cartoonish version of misogynist evil than a male ecclesiastical leader chortling in response to an abused woman's story?

The main responses of the SBC, described in the report, have been to minimize allegations and undermine victims. Some Executive Committee members have referred to survivors as "Potiphar's wife" a biblical character who makes a false accusation of rape.

In 2007, Frank Page, the SBC's president at the time, wrote: "Please be aware that there are groups that are nothing more than opportunistic persons who are seeking to raise opportunities for personal gain." In a 2008 email, Paige Patterson, a former SBC president who at the time served as president of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, referred to one survivors' group as "just as reprehensible as sex criminals." In 2018, the report reminds us, "Dr. Patterson was fired by SWBTS after he was accused of telling a student not to report a rape in 2003 and, in 2015, of emailing his intention to meet with another student who had reported an assault, with no other officials present, so he could 'break her down.'"

This is not Christianity. It is a culture of brutal chauvinism that has grown up for generations around Christianity. When it comes to protecting abusers, the largest American Protestant denomination is in the same vile category as the Catholic Church. An utter failure to prioritize abused women and children is the largest crisis of institutional religion in the United States.

SSadler said:

---

Gonna be a whole lot of new cold call life insurance salesmen hitting the streets in the days ahead (and that's not intended as a slam at credible professionals in the field of insurane). That and maybe a whole bunch of shoe salesmen at he Mall. Not many job opportunities for defrocked Baptist preachers.

---

Used car salesmen?

J.B.Katz said:

---

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/24/pastor-confesses-adultery-teenager/

Now the #@$% is going to start hitting the fan.

Here's a story about a pastor at a big nondenominational church who makes a self-aggrandizing confession of adultery, which is followed by his victim's confronting him in front of the entire congregation with the fact that she was 16 when the abuse started in his office at the church and that the abuse continued for 9 years. She was driven to bring forward her allegations because her brother could not forget seeing her in bed with the minister.

Some congregants will readily forgive this man and villify his victim. But this incident will crack open the congregation and reveals that for longer than 9 years, this pastor preached about adultery and sin while victimizing a young woman in his congregation.

---

I will re-state because I'm speechless. What in the absolute Hell is wrong with people?

Redbrickbear said:

---

Reverend said:

---

Why would anyone want to remain a part of an SBC church or the Catholic church when there are so many alternatives to worship and expressing and living your Faith.

---

I'm not sure if you are being serious…

The SBC is just a convention…all churches are independent and may choose to stay in the convention or leave.

As for faithful Catholics it's because there is no path to sure salvation outside of communion with Rome.

"There is no salvation apart from Christ and his One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Again, this is an infallible teaching and not up for debate among Catholics."

extra ecclesiam nulla salus

---

I was serious. Thanks for making my point.

J.B.Katz said:

---

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/24/pastor-confesses-adultery-teenager/

Now the #@$% is going to start hitting the fan.

Here's a story about a pastor at a big nondenominational church who makes a self-aggrandizing confession of adultery, which is followed by his victim's confronting him in front of the entire congregation with the fact that she was 16 when the abuse started in his office at the church and that the abuse continued for 9 years. She was driven to bring forward her allegations because her brother could not forget seeing her in bed with the minister.

Some congregants will readily forgive this man and villify his victim. But this incident will crack open the congregation and reveals that for longer than 9 years, this pastor preached about adultery and sin while victimizing a young woman in his congregation.

---

That one had a paywall. Here is the story with the video without a paywall.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10849281/Indiana-woman-forces-married-pastor-admit-affair-16-church.html?ito=social-facebook&fbclid=IwAR2tkoBsWiqvcvBKHpZ8FCJPPFr9IOEvdSyHGxYXcM_-yZVECsRVIRWhvNc



You are wrong about this congregation villifying the victim here. The congregation was very angry at him, the day had started as a confession of adultery and he got a standing ovation for being "honest". Then the congregation found out he had violated a teenage girl, who was the same age as the pastors children.

He and his wife were kicked out of the church almost immediately, and there were a bunch of folks very angry with him, once it was found this was abuse and not just adultery.

J.B.Katz said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Some congregants will readily forgive this man and villify his victim.

---

What is the purpose and proof of this statement? Especially the second half of it?

Not everyone is out to blame the victim. In fact, I would guess that few do. Those that do must have something deficient in their psyche.

This seems to be a common thread in your posts.

---

From Michael Gerson's column: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/23/southern-baptist-sexual-abuse-culture-of-misogyny/

Consider a meeting between one survivor, Christa Brown, and the Southern Baptist Convention's bylaws work group. "Some opposed her even being allowed to speak," the report states, and an Executive Committee member "turned his back to her during her speech and another chortled."

Is it possible to imagine a more cartoonish version of misogynist evil than a male ecclesiastical leader chortling in response to an abused woman's story?

The main responses of the SBC, described in the report, have been to minimize allegations and undermine victims. Some Executive Committee members have referred to survivors as "Potiphar's wife" a biblical character who makes a false accusation of rape.

In 2007, Frank Page, the SBC's president at the time, wrote: "Please be aware that there are groups that are nothing more than opportunistic persons who are seeking to raise opportunities for personal gain." In a 2008 email, Paige Patterson, a former SBC president who at the time served as president of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, referred to one survivors' group as "just as reprehensible as sex criminals." In 2018, the report reminds us, "Dr. Patterson was fired by SWBTS after he was accused of telling a student not to report a rape in 2003 and, in 2015, of emailing his intention to meet with another student who had reported an assault, with no other officials present, so he could 'break her down.'"

This is not Christianity. It is a culture of brutal chauvinism that has grown up for generations around Christianity. When it comes to protecting abusers, the largest American Protestant denomination is in the same vile category as the Catholic Church. An utter failure to prioritize abused women and children is the largest crisis of institutional religion in the United States.

---

More than one thing can be true at the same time. Scum bag preachers can exist while, at the same time, opportunist also exist.

Just my opinion but, hire an outside group to investigate. Give them free reign and a reasonable deadline. When the report comes out, make it public info with only the names of minors redacted.

Throw open the curtains and turn on all the lights.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/24/pastor-confesses-adultery-teenager/

Now the #@$% is going to start hitting the fan.

Here's a story about a pastor at a big nondenominational church who makes a self-aggrandizing confession of adultery, which is followed by his victim's confronting him in front of the entire congregation with the fact that she was 16 when the abuse started in his office at the church and that the abuse continued for 9 years. She was driven to bring forward her allegations because her brother could not forget seeing her in bed with the minister.

Some congregants will readily forgive this man and villify his victim. But this incident will crack open the congregation and reveals that for longer than 9 years, this pastor preached about adultery and sin while victimizing a young woman in his congregation.

---

That on had a paywall. Here is the story with the video without a paywall.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10849281/Indiana-woman-forces-married-pastor-admit-affair-16-church.html?ito=social-facebook&fbclid=IwAR2tkoBsWiqvcvBKHpZ8FCJPPFr9IOEvdSyHGxYXcM_-yZVECsRVIRWhvNc



You are wrong about this congregation villifying the victim here. The congregation was very angry at him, the day had started as a confession of adultery and he got a standing ovation for being "honest". Then the congregation found out he had violated a teenage girl, who was the same age as the pastors children.

He and his wife were kicked out of the church almost immediately, and there were a bunch of folks very angry with him, once it was found this was abuse and not just adultery.

---

Thanks for posting this

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

You are wrong about this congregation villifying the victim here. The congregation was very angry at him, the day had started as a confession of adultery and he got a standing ovation for being "honest". Then the congregation found out he had violated a teenage girl, who was the same age as the pastors children.

He and his wife were kicked out of the church almost immediately, and there were a bunch of folks very angry with him, once it was found this was abuse and not just adultery.

---

This is exactly my point. Most individuals are outraged and demand justice in these situations.

It is only a few individuals that try to cover up and/or blame/shame the victim in these organizations.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Some congregants will readily forgive this man and villify his victim.

---

What is the purpose and proof of this statement? Especially the second half of it?

Not everyone is out to blame the victim. In fact, I would guess that few do. Those that do must have something deficient in their psyche.

This seems to be a common thread in your posts.

---

From Michael Gerson's column: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/23/southern-baptist-sexual-abuse-culture-of-misogyny/

Consider a meeting between one survivor, Christa Brown, and the Southern Baptist Convention's bylaws work group. "Some opposed her even being allowed to speak," the report states, and an Executive Committee member "turned his back to her during her speech and another chortled."

Is it possible to imagine a more cartoonish version of misogynist evil than a male ecclesiastical leader chortling in response to an abused woman's story?

The main responses of the SBC, described in the report, have been to minimize allegations and undermine victims. Some Executive Committee members have referred to survivors as "Potiphar's wife" a biblical character who makes a false accusation of rape.

In 2007, Frank Page, the SBC's president at the time, wrote: "Please be aware that there are groups that are nothing more than opportunistic persons who are seeking to raise opportunities for personal gain." In a 2008 email, Paige Patterson, a former SBC president who at the time served as president of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, referred to one survivors' group as "just as reprehensible as sex criminals." In 2018, the report reminds us, "Dr. Patterson was fired by SWBTS after he was accused of telling a student not to report a rape in 2003 and, in 2015, of emailing his intention to meet with another student who had reported an assault, with no other officials present, so he could 'break her down.'"

This is not Christianity. It is a culture of brutal chauvinism that has grown up for generations around Christianity. When it comes to protecting abusers, the largest American Protestant denomination is in the same vile category as the Catholic Church. An utter failure to prioritize abused women and children is the largest crisis of institutional religion in the United States.

---

More than one thing can be true at the same time. Scum bag preachers can exist while, at the same time, opportunist also exist.

Just my opinion but, hire an outside group to investigate. Give them free reign and a reasonable deadline. When the report comes out, make it public info with only the names of minors redacted.

Throw open the curtains and turn on all the lights.

---

That's what the Southern Baptist Convention did.

And the doors are about to be thrown open: https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/05/24/southern-baptist-executive-committee-meeting-sex-abuse/

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/24/pastor-confesses-adultery-teenager/

Now the #@$% is going to start hitting the fan.

Here's a story about a pastor at a big nondenominational church who makes a self-aggrandizing confession of adultery, which is followed by his victim's confronting him in front of the entire congregation with the fact that she was 16 when the abuse started in his office at the church and that the abuse continued for 9 years. She was driven to bring forward her allegations because her brother could not forget seeing her in bed with the minister.

Some congregants will readily forgive this man and villify his victim. But this incident will crack open the congregation and reveals that for longer than 9 years, this pastor preached about adultery and sin while victimizing a young woman in his congregation.

---

That on had a paywall. Here is the story with the video without a paywall.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10849281/Indiana-woman-forces-married-pastor-admit-affair-16-church.html?ito=social-facebook&fbclid=IwAR2tkoBsWiqvcvBKHpZ8FCJPPFr9IOEvdSyHGxYXcM_-yZVECsRVIRWhvNc



You are wrong about this congregation villifying the victim here. The congregation was very angry at him, the day had started as a confession of adultery and he got a standing ovation for being "honest". Then the congregation found out he had violated a teenage girl, who was the same age as the pastors children.

He and his wife were kicked out of the church almost immediately, and there were a bunch of folks very angry with him, once it was found this was abuse and not just adultery.

---

Lowe's resignation, which occurred yesterday, is just now being reported: https://www.npr.org/2022/05/24/1100958437/pastor-quits-adultery-woman-says-age-16-abuse

"Committing adultery" is not an entirely accurate definition of what Lowe did in preying on a teenage girl in his congregation.

I believe in forgiveness. But this man should be held criminally liable for what he did. Prosecutors are looking into it: https://www.oxygen.com/crime-news/pastor-john-lowe-adultery-teen-alleged-sex-abuse

One thing that helped Catholic priests avoid criminal prosecution was that the statute of limitation had run out by the time the victims reported their abuse.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2021/06/26/catholic-priests-sex-sexual-abuse-children-minors-new-iowa-law-statue-limitations-attorney-general/7780408002/

Roman Catholic priests who victimized Iowa children decades ago cannot be prosecuted despite a new law eliminating the statute of limitations for child sex abuse, the state attorney general says.


The law, signed by Gov. Kim Reynolds last month, does not apply to cases in which the statute of limitations has already expired, Attorney General Tom Miller's office said in its report Wednesday that found the amount of abuse in the Catholic Church "overwhelming."

That means victims of childhood abuse who are currently 33 and over will not be able to have their abusers prosecuted because they missed the deadline to report. They also can't sue perpetrators and officials who concealed the abuse because the law didn't change the civil statute of limitations.

J.B.Katz said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Some congregants will readily forgive this man and villify his victim.

---

What is the purpose and proof of this statement? Especially the second half of it?

Not everyone is out to blame the victim. In fact, I would guess that few do. Those that do must have something deficient in their psyche.

This seems to be a common thread in your posts.

---

From Michael Gerson's column: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/23/southern-baptist-sexual-abuse-culture-of-misogyny/

Consider a meeting between one survivor, Christa Brown, and the Southern Baptist Convention's bylaws work group. "Some opposed her even being allowed to speak," the report states, and an Executive Committee member "turned his back to her during her speech and another chortled."

Is it possible to imagine a more cartoonish version of misogynist evil than a male ecclesiastical leader chortling in response to an abused woman's story?

The main responses of the SBC, described in the report, have been to minimize allegations and undermine victims. Some Executive Committee members have referred to survivors as "Potiphar's wife" a biblical character who makes a false accusation of rape.

In 2007, Frank Page, the SBC's president at the time, wrote: "Please be aware that there are groups that are nothing more than opportunistic persons who are seeking to raise opportunities for personal gain." In a 2008 email, Paige Patterson, a former SBC president who at the time served as president of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, referred to one survivors' group as "just as reprehensible as sex criminals." In 2018, the report reminds us, "Dr. Patterson was fired by SWBTS after he was accused of telling a student not to report a rape in 2003 and, in 2015, of emailing his intention to meet with another student who had reported an assault, with no other officials present, so he could 'break her down.'"

This is not Christianity. It is a culture of brutal chauvinism that has grown up for generations around Christianity. When it comes to protecting abusers, the largest American Protestant denomination is in the same vile category as the Catholic Church. An utter failure to prioritize abused women and children is the largest crisis of institutional religion in the United States.

---

More than one thing can be true at the same time. Scum bag preachers can exist while, at the same time, opportunist also exist.

Just my opinion but, hire an outside group to investigate. Give them free reign and a reasonable deadline. When the report comes out, make it public info with only the names of minors redacted.

Throw open the curtains and turn on all the lights.

---

That's what the Southern Baptist Convention did.

And the doors are about to be thrown open: https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/05/24/southern-baptist-executive-committee-meeting-sex-abuse/

---

So as the doors are being thrown open and tables overturned, please understand that as people call out others as being opportunist, it doesn't mean they are against the investigation or the findings or the victims.

There will be plenty of buzzards circling.

J.B.Katz said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/24/pastor-confesses-adultery-teenager/

Now the #@$% is going to start hitting the fan.

Here's a story about a pastor at a big nondenominational church who makes a self-aggrandizing confession of adultery, which is followed by his victim's confronting him in front of the entire congregation with the fact that she was 16 when the abuse started in his office at the church and that the abuse continued for 9 years. She was driven to bring forward her allegations because her brother could not forget seeing her in bed with the minister.

Some congregants will readily forgive this man and villify his victim. But this incident will crack open the congregation and reveals that for longer than 9 years, this pastor preached about adultery and sin while victimizing a young woman in his congregation.

---

That on had a paywall. Here is the story with the video without a paywall.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10849281/Indiana-woman-forces-married-pastor-admit-affair-16-church.html?ito=social-facebook&fbclid=IwAR2tkoBsWiqvcvBKHpZ8FCJPPFr9IOEvdSyHGxYXcM_-yZVECsRVIRWhvNc



You are wrong about this congregation villifying the victim here. The congregation was very angry at him, the day had started as a confession of adultery and he got a standing ovation for being "honest". Then the congregation found out he had violated a teenage girl, who was the same age as the pastors children.

He and his wife were kicked out of the church almost immediately, and there were a bunch of folks very angry with him, once it was found this was abuse and not just adultery.

---

Lowe's resignation, which occurred yesterday, is just now being reported: https://www.npr.org/2022/05/24/1100958437/pastor-quits-adultery-woman-says-age-16-abuse

"Committing adultery" is not an entirely accurate definition of what Lowe did in preying on a teenage girl in his congregation.

I believe in forgiveness. But this man should be held criminally liable for what he did. Prosecutors are looking into it: https://www.oxygen.com/crime-news/pastor-john-lowe-adultery-teen-alleged-sex-abuse

One thing that helped Catholic priests avoid criminal prosecution was that the statute of limitation had run out by the time the victims reported their abuse.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2021/06/26/catholic-priests-sex-sexual-abuse-children-minors-new-iowa-law-statue-limitations-attorney-general/7780408002/

Roman Catholic priests who victimized Iowa children decades ago cannot be prosecuted despite a new law eliminating the statute of limitations for child sex abuse, the state attorney general says.


The law, signed by Gov. Kim Reynolds last month, does not apply to cases in which the statute of limitations has already expired, Attorney General Tom Miller's office said in its report Wednesday that found the amount of abuse in the Catholic Church "overwhelming."

That means victims of childhood abuse who are currently 33 and over will not be able to have their abusers prosecuted because they missed the deadline to report. They also can't sue perpetrators and officials who concealed the abuse because the law didn't change the civil statute of limitations.

---

Rape is what he did to prey on a teenage girl. He should have been castrated. Unfortunately the age of consent in Indiana is 16, he started groom her at age 15. I'm sure he was fully aware of the age of consent.

Hopefully the "Convention" as it is currrently in operation won't survive this, and a new method of cooperation, without the "power centers" that simply create abuses of power, dissolve.

The hair on my neck crawls every time I hear a Pastor like the dude @ Prestonwood and 100's of other celebrity pastors just like him. They are corrupt people, who live to relish in their personal power.

Reverend said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Reverend said:

---

Why would anyone want to remain a part of an SBC church or the Catholic church when there are so many alternatives to worship and expressing and living your Faith.

---

I'm not sure if you are being serious…

The SBC is just a convention…all churches are independent and may choose to stay in the convention or leave.

As for faithful Catholics it's because there is no path to sure salvation outside of communion with Rome.

"There is no salvation apart from Christ and his One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Again, this is an infallible teaching and not up for debate among Catholics."

extra ecclesiam nulla salus

---

I was serious. Thanks for making my point.

---

The question isn't whether someone would want to remain a part of an SBC church, the question is whether someone would want their church to remain a part of the SBC.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/24/pastor-confesses-adultery-teenager/

Now the #@$% is going to start hitting the fan.

Here's a story about a pastor at a big nondenominational church who makes a self-aggrandizing confession of adultery, which is followed by his victim's confronting him in front of the entire congregation with the fact that she was 16 when the abuse started in his office at the church and that the abuse continued for 9 years. She was driven to bring forward her allegations because her brother could not forget seeing her in bed with the minister.

Some congregants will readily forgive this man and villify his victim. But this incident will crack open the congregation and reveals that for longer than 9 years, this pastor preached about adultery and sin while victimizing a young woman in his congregation.

---

That on had a paywall. Here is the story with the video without a paywall.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10849281/Indiana-woman-forces-married-pastor-admit-affair-16-church.html?ito=social-facebook&fbclid=IwAR2tkoBsWiqvcvBKHpZ8FCJPPFr9IOEvdSyHGxYXcM_-yZVECsRVIRWhvNc



You are wrong about this congregation villifying the victim here. The congregation was very angry at him, the day had started as a confession of adultery and he got a standing ovation for being "honest". Then the congregation found out he had violated a teenage girl, who was the same age as the pastors children.

He and his wife were kicked out of the church almost immediately, and there were a bunch of folks very angry with him, once it was found this was abuse and not just adultery.

---

Lowe's resignation, which occurred yesterday, is just now being reported: https://www.npr.org/2022/05/24/1100958437/pastor-quits-adultery-woman-says-age-16-abuse

"Committing adultery" is not an entirely accurate definition of what Lowe did in preying on a teenage girl in his congregation.

I believe in forgiveness. But this man should be held criminally liable for what he did. Prosecutors are looking into it: https://www.oxygen.com/crime-news/pastor-john-lowe-adultery-teen-alleged-sex-abuse

One thing that helped Catholic priests avoid criminal prosecution was that the statute of limitation had run out by the time the victims reported their abuse.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2021/06/26/catholic-priests-sex-sexual-abuse-children-minors-new-iowa-law-statue-limitations-attorney-general/7780408002/

Roman Catholic priests who victimized Iowa children decades ago cannot be prosecuted despite a new law eliminating the statute of limitations for child sex abuse, the state attorney general says.


The law, signed by Gov. Kim Reynolds last month, does not apply to cases in which the statute of limitations has already expired, Attorney General Tom Miller's office said in its report Wednesday that found the amount of abuse in the Catholic Church "overwhelming."

That means victims of childhood abuse who are currently 33 and over will not be able to have their abusers prosecuted because they missed the deadline to report. They also can't sue perpetrators and officials who concealed the abuse because the law didn't change the civil statute of limitations.

---

Rape is what he did to prey on a teenage girl. He should have been castrated. Unfortunately the age of consent in Indiana is 16, he started groom her at age 15. I'm sure he was fully aware of the age of consent.

---

Her only recourse is likely a civil suit. I doubt he would be convicted of rape; he would say the sex was consensual.

What mystifies me is why this woman would still be a member of Lowe's congregation.

J.B.Katz said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Consideration to bring Paige Patterson "on board" at any level and for any job is intentionally ingesting hemlock. The guy is a discredited power-monger who appears to lack even a modicum of grace as well as any regard or respect for institutional guidelines, integrity and institutional memory.

While the new BNG espouses a noble effort while not supplanting the SBC, make no mistake in concluding it is not positioning itself to gather the pieces of the SBC down the road and becoming a new convention. it is probably not a bad move but it has to choose leadership wisely and establish vision and mission which are clear and not couched in some "church language" and especially in some "preachers' language". Most conventions, in my experience, are catering to the professional ministers and not the lay women and men in their churches. Lay people avoid "annual meetings" because there is little offered in terms of spiritual growth or inspiration for them at those gatherings, events now full of institutional self-promotion and "business meetings".

Vision, imagination and inspiration are lacking. Those who sit in pews on Sunday and fund the professional ministers and their work have taken notice and are looking for a more fulfilling experience in faith.

---

The United Methodist Church has the same problem with its conventions, and there's also an interneccine war over acceptance of LGBTQ congregants and ministers between a conservative faction of the church and the mainstream faction that's about the split the denomination.

But the UMC started ordaining women in 1956, although women ministers only started increasing in numbers in the 1980s and did not become common until the 1990s.

Having women represented among church leadership is a partial insurance policy against a culture of ignoring reports of sexual abuse of anyone of any sex and any age. Refusing to allow women in leadership positions or refusing even to listen them speak out about their abuse (the report makes clear that some conservative leaders tried to silence women who reported abuse, and one even physically turned his back on a victim) makes it easier for male leaders to ignore, lie about, cover up and gaslight about abuse perpetrated by colleagues or friends while simultaneously blaming the victims both for their abuse and for speaking out about it.

---

Good points.

Though the results of the investigation sickened me, I was surprised only in that it was worse than I thought. And I thought it was pretty bad.

When you have a culture that denigrates and disrespects women, it's not surprising that these things happen. Patterson and Pressler instilled in the SBC a culture of hate that could only bear the bitter fruit we're seeing.

C. Jordan said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Consideration to bring Paige Patterson "on board" at any level and for any job is intentionally ingesting hemlock. The guy is a discredited power-monger who appears to lack even a modicum of grace as well as any regard or respect for institutional guidelines, integrity and institutional memory.

While the new BNG espouses a noble effort while not supplanting the SBC, make no mistake in concluding it is not positioning itself to gather the pieces of the SBC down the road and becoming a new convention. it is probably not a bad move but it has to choose leadership wisely and establish vision and mission which are clear and not couched in some "church language" and especially in some "preachers' language". Most conventions, in my experience, are catering to the professional ministers and not the lay women and men in their churches. Lay people avoid "annual meetings" because there is little offered in terms of spiritual growth or inspiration for them at those gatherings, events now full of institutional self-promotion and "business meetings".

Vision, imagination and inspiration are lacking. Those who sit in pews on Sunday and fund the professional ministers and their work have taken notice and are looking for a more fulfilling experience in faith.

---

The United Methodist Church has the same problem with its conventions, and there's also an interneccine war over acceptance of LGBTQ congregants and ministers between a conservative faction of the church and the mainstream faction that's about the split the denomination.

But the UMC started ordaining women in 1956, although women ministers only started increasing in numbers in the 1980s and did not become common until the 1990s.

Having women represented among church leadership is a partial insurance policy against a culture of ignoring reports of sexual abuse of anyone of any sex and any age. Refusing to allow women in leadership positions or refusing even to listen them speak out about their abuse (the report makes clear that some conservative leaders tried to silence women who reported abuse, and one even physically turned his back on a victim) makes it easier for male leaders to ignore, lie about, cover up and gaslight about abuse perpetrated by colleagues or friends while simultaneously blaming the victims both for their abuse and for speaking out about it.

---

Good points.

Though the results of the investigation sickened me, I was surprised only in that it was worse than I thought. And I thought it was pretty bad.

When you have a culture that denigrates and disrespects women, it's not surprising that these things happen. Patterson and Pressler instilled in the SBC a culture of hate that could only bear the bitter fruit we're seeing.

---

What explains the epidemic of sexual assault at our secular and very progressive universities in the USA?

What explains the public schools and the serious problems they are having with sexual assault?

I know you think this is a opportunity to grind your axe against Southern Baptists for their traditional views on gender norms...but this is a far wider problem and has little to do with beliefs about traditional sex roles.

The progressive Church of England is being rolled by sexual abuse allegations and it has women priestesses and women bishops.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54433295

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

Hopefully the "Convention" as it is currrently in operation won't survive this, and a new method of cooperation, without the "power centers" that simply create abuses of power, dissolve.

The hair on my neck crawls every time I hear a Pastor like the dude @ Prestonwood and 100's of other celebrity pastors just like him. They are corrupt people, who live to relish in their personal power.

---

I wish this would happen, but it won't.

The SBC will continue to splinter and decline. But many will circle the wagons around toads like Patterson and others seeing them as dedicated warriors against liberalism.

Plus, female subjugation is enormously popular not just in the SBC but in conservative evangelicalism as a whole.

Just look at how our own Linda Livingstone is treated by a significant number here on SicEm. And the dismissal of the PH report about our own problems by the same.

Redbrickbear said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Consideration to bring Paige Patterson "on board" at any level and for any job is intentionally ingesting hemlock. The guy is a discredited power-monger who appears to lack even a modicum of grace as well as any regard or respect for institutional guidelines, integrity and institutional memory.

While the new BNG espouses a noble effort while not supplanting the SBC, make no mistake in concluding it is not positioning itself to gather the pieces of the SBC down the road and becoming a new convention. it is probably not a bad move but it has to choose leadership wisely and establish vision and mission which are clear and not couched in some "church language" and especially in some "preachers' language". Most conventions, in my experience, are catering to the professional ministers and not the lay women and men in their churches. Lay people avoid "annual meetings" because there is little offered in terms of spiritual growth or inspiration for them at those gatherings, events now full of institutional self-promotion and "business meetings".

Vision, imagination and inspiration are lacking. Those who sit in pews on Sunday and fund the professional ministers and their work have taken notice and are looking for a more fulfilling experience in faith.

---

The United Methodist Church has the same problem with its conventions, and there's also an interneccine war over acceptance of LGBTQ congregants and ministers between a conservative faction of the church and the mainstream faction that's about the split the denomination.

But the UMC started ordaining women in 1956, although women ministers only started increasing in numbers in the 1980s and did not become common until the 1990s.

Having women represented among church leadership is a partial insurance policy against a culture of ignoring reports of sexual abuse of anyone of any sex and any age. Refusing to allow women in leadership positions or refusing even to listen them speak out about their abuse (the report makes clear that some conservative leaders tried to silence women who reported abuse, and one even physically turned his back on a victim) makes it easier for male leaders to ignore, lie about, cover up and gaslight about abuse perpetrated by colleagues or friends while simultaneously blaming the victims both for their abuse and for speaking out about it.

---

Good points.

Though the results of the investigation sickened me, I was surprised only in that it was worse than I thought. And I thought it was pretty bad.

When you have a culture that denigrates and disrespects women, it's not surprising that these things happen. Patterson and Pressler instilled in the SBC a culture of hate that could only bear the bitter fruit we're seeing.

---

What explains the epidemic of sexual assault at our secular and very progressive universities in the USA?

What explains the public schools and the serious problems they are having with sexual assault?

I know you think this is a opportunity to grind your axe against Southern Baptists for their traditional views on gender norms...but this is a far wider problem and has little to do with beliefs about traditional sex roles.

The progressive Church of England is being rolled by sexual abuse allegations and it has women priestesses and women bishops.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54433295

---

You're deflecting and it's not working.

You cite epidemics with no proof. But even if these epidemics are true, they're being handled far better than the SBC has handled theirs. At least they haven't swept them under the rug, like the SBC used to do.

The culture of disbelieving women comes directly from the male authoritarian culture of SBC leaders.

(BTW, the C of E story was about children, not women.)

C. Jordan said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Consideration to bring Paige Patterson "on board" at any level and for any job is intentionally ingesting hemlock. The guy is a discredited power-monger who appears to lack even a modicum of grace as well as any regard or respect for institutional guidelines, integrity and institutional memory.

While the new BNG espouses a noble effort while not supplanting the SBC, make no mistake in concluding it is not positioning itself to gather the pieces of the SBC down the road and becoming a new convention. it is probably not a bad move but it has to choose leadership wisely and establish vision and mission which are clear and not couched in some "church language" and especially in some "preachers' language". Most conventions, in my experience, are catering to the professional ministers and not the lay women and men in their churches. Lay people avoid "annual meetings" because there is little offered in terms of spiritual growth or inspiration for them at those gatherings, events now full of institutional self-promotion and "business meetings".

Vision, imagination and inspiration are lacking. Those who sit in pews on Sunday and fund the professional ministers and their work have taken notice and are looking for a more fulfilling experience in faith.

---

The United Methodist Church has the same problem with its conventions, and there's also an interneccine war over acceptance of LGBTQ congregants and ministers between a conservative faction of the church and the mainstream faction that's about the split the denomination.

But the UMC started ordaining women in 1956, although women ministers only started increasing in numbers in the 1980s and did not become common until the 1990s.

Having women represented among church leadership is a partial insurance policy against a culture of ignoring reports of sexual abuse of anyone of any sex and any age. Refusing to allow women in leadership positions or refusing even to listen them speak out about their abuse (the report makes clear that some conservative leaders tried to silence women who reported abuse, and one even physically turned his back on a victim) makes it easier for male leaders to ignore, lie about, cover up and gaslight about abuse perpetrated by colleagues or friends while simultaneously blaming the victims both for their abuse and for speaking out about it.

---

Good points.

Though the results of the investigation sickened me, I was surprised only in that it was worse than I thought. And I thought it was pretty bad.

When you have a culture that denigrates and disrespects women, it's not surprising that these things happen. Patterson and Pressler instilled in the SBC a culture of hate that could only bear the bitter fruit we're seeing.

---

What explains the epidemic of sexual assault at our secular and very progressive universities in the USA?

What explains the public schools and the serious problems they are having with sexual assault?

I know you think this is a opportunity to grind your axe against Southern Baptists for their traditional views on gender norms...but this is a far wider problem and has little to do with beliefs about traditional sex roles.

The progressive Church of England is being rolled by sexual abuse allegations and it has women priestesses and women bishops.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54433295

---

You're deflecting and it's not working.

You cite epidemics with no proof. But even if these epidemics are true, they're being handled far better than the SBC has handled theirs. At least they haven't swept them under the rug, like the SBC used to do.

The culture of disbelieving women comes directly from the male authoritarian culture of SBC leaders.

(BTW, the C of E story was about children, not women.)

---

Again,

Sexual assault is sexual assualt....it is found in progressive groups and universities.

It is found in more moderate-conservative groups.

Its everywhere.

You are trying to imply "non-progressive views on sex roles = sex abuse"

There is no evidence that is true. Other than it helps you justify your world view and demonize your cultural enemies.

J.B.Katz said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

The outrage in the case of Southern Baptists is not simply that sexual abuse occurred, it is that those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue. It is all the more outrageous because this was in character for these men.

The fundamentalist takeover of the SBC (let us call it what it was) was a series of evil acts from the beginning. It was not led by the Spirit of God as evidenced by the actions of those carrying it out. From the beginning this was clear to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear, and it left a chilling question hanging in the air: if these men would carry out the kind of pro-Satan, power-grabbing actions they were doing publicly and without shame, what would they be willing to do to protect their power and privilege when they believed no one was watching? What they did in these cases of sexual abuse, therefore, comes as a devastating, stomach-turning shock but not a great surprise.

In a broader view, however, these particular men are not unique and their particular brand of wrong-headed theology is not a unique cause of their evil. This drive to protect power and image over people infects every every human power structure, whether they are schools, government agencies, political parties or churches, and when churches substitute human principles for Christian principles, no matter their presumed motivations, disaster follows as surely as the sun rises in the East.

---

Well put.

The takeover was never really about inerrancy or abortion or any of that. It was about wielding power and forcing people to comply.

---

Much like the Democrat party. Well said.

---

"Democrat party." Enough said.

---

You pretty ignorant aren't you. Those of us old enough to have fought the Baptist Battles of the 80s distinctly KNOW the leaders of the "takeover" (Patterson, Pressler, et al) were hard core Republicans.

Also, just for what it's worth, the name mentioned more often in this extended article more than any other who blocked, buried, stonewalled EVERY attenpt by the Baptist leadership in Nashville do try to do something to stem the abuse -- Augie Boto-- a BU undergrad and law grad--the chief counsel for SBC for many years.

And his oft-cited defense of why the SBC could do nothing to stop the tragedies--the autonomy of the local church--(ie. abuse was between individuals at the local level) is pure diahhea of the brain. It's not an easy discipline for SBC to hold over local churches, but it can be done.

Sickening to read;sickening to see the name so often of one who at one time in my life I called "friendl."

(perhaps more comments when I chill a bit. The last two hours of reading this has been a sickening two hours.)

Redbrickbear said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Consideration to bring Paige Patterson "on board" at any level and for any job is intentionally ingesting hemlock. The guy is a discredited power-monger who appears to lack even a modicum of grace as well as any regard or respect for institutional guidelines, integrity and institutional memory.

While the new BNG espouses a noble effort while not supplanting the SBC, make no mistake in concluding it is not positioning itself to gather the pieces of the SBC down the road and becoming a new convention. it is probably not a bad move but it has to choose leadership wisely and establish vision and mission which are clear and not couched in some "church language" and especially in some "preachers' language". Most conventions, in my experience, are catering to the professional ministers and not the lay women and men in their churches. Lay people avoid "annual meetings" because there is little offered in terms of spiritual growth or inspiration for them at those gatherings, events now full of institutional self-promotion and "business meetings".

Vision, imagination and inspiration are lacking. Those who sit in pews on Sunday and fund the professional ministers and their work have taken notice and are looking for a more fulfilling experience in faith.

---

The United Methodist Church has the same problem with its conventions, and there's also an interneccine war over acceptance of LGBTQ congregants and ministers between a conservative faction of the church and the mainstream faction that's about the split the denomination.

But the UMC started ordaining women in 1956, although women ministers only started increasing in numbers in the 1980s and did not become common until the 1990s.

Having women represented among church leadership is a partial insurance policy against a culture of ignoring reports of sexual abuse of anyone of any sex and any age. Refusing to allow women in leadership positions or refusing even to listen them speak out about their abuse (the report makes clear that some conservative leaders tried to silence women who reported abuse, and one even physically turned his back on a victim) makes it easier for male leaders to ignore, lie about, cover up and gaslight about abuse perpetrated by colleagues or friends while simultaneously blaming the victims both for their abuse and for speaking out about it.

---

Good points.

Though the results of the investigation sickened me, I was surprised only in that it was worse than I thought. And I thought it was pretty bad.

When you have a culture that denigrates and disrespects women, it's not surprising that these things happen. Patterson and Pressler instilled in the SBC a culture of hate that could only bear the bitter fruit we're seeing.

---

What explains the epidemic of sexual assault at our secular and very progressive universities in the USA?

What explains the public schools and the serious problems they are having with sexual assault?

I know you think this is a opportunity to grind your axe against Southern Baptists for their traditional views on gender norms...but this is a far wider problem and has little to do with beliefs about traditional sex roles.

The progressive Church of England is being rolled by sexual abuse allegations and it has women priestesses and women bishops.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54433295

---

You're deflecting and it's not working.

You cite epidemics with no proof. But even if these epidemics are true, they're being handled far better than the SBC has handled theirs. At least they haven't swept them under the rug, like the SBC used to do.

The culture of disbelieving women comes directly from the male authoritarian culture of SBC leaders.

(BTW, the C of E story was about children, not women.)

---

Again,

Sexual assault is sexual assualt....it is found in progressive groups and universities.

It is found in more moderate-conservative groups.

Its everywhere.

You are trying to imply "non-progressive views on sex roles = sex abuse"

There is no evidence that is true. Other than it helps you justify your world view and demonize your cultural enemies.

---

Again, you're missing the point. My point isn't about the occurrence or the frequency of sexual assaults, but about the reporting and dealing with sexual assaults.

Paige Patterson wouldn't even have a female secretary. He canned a female history professor just because she was a woman, even though she affirmed the BFM 2000.

Is it any surprise, then, that he would disrespect a survivor of assault so much, he wanted to meet one on one with her to "break her down"?

You're focusing on the occurrence of the assault. I'm focusing on the reporting and follow-up of assaults. It's in the reporting and follow up that the disrespect happened in the SBC.

Just read the executive summary of the investigation, and you'll see that what I'm saying is true.

D. C. Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

The outrage in the case of Southern Baptists is not simply that sexual abuse occurred, it is that those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue. It is all the more outrageous because this was in character for these men.

The fundamentalist takeover of the SBC (let us call it what it was) was a series of evil acts from the beginning. It was not led by the Spirit of God as evidenced by the actions of those carrying it out. From the beginning this was clear to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear, and it left a chilling question hanging in the air: if these men would carry out the kind of pro-Satan, power-grabbing actions they were doing publicly and without shame, what would they be willing to do to protect their power and privilege when they believed no one was watching? What they did in these cases of sexual abuse, therefore, comes as a devastating, stomach-turning shock but not a great surprise.

In a broader view, however, these particular men are not unique and their particular brand of wrong-headed theology is not a unique cause of their evil. This drive to protect power and image over people infects every every human power structure, whether they are schools, government agencies, political parties or churches, and when churches substitute human principles for Christian principles, no matter their presumed motivations, disaster follows as surely as the sun rises in the East.

---

"those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue."

This happened in the Catholic Church, too. I would argue that those who covered up the abuses meted out by pedophile priests assigned to parishes and sexually abusive or sadistic priests and nuns working at religious institutions for children are no better, but no worse, than those who covered up for the abuses that occurred within evangelical congregations and children's camps.

---

It happens virtually everywhere there is abuse with the potential that the revelation of that abuse will lead to negative impact on the institution involved. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, public schools, private schools, movie studios, and so on.

Your assertion that "nothing will be done" is somewhat misinformed. At the church we attend, those of us who work with children undergo state background checks and we have a robust child protection policy in place. While a crime could happen, it is much less likely with those safeguards for children (and adults) in place. This has been the case there for a couple of decades or more. We also don't hire ministers who mistake themselves for God when they look in the mirror. That makes a difference.

You decided to bring abortion in to the thread, but this topic is about the victims of abuse that have already been born. Those who haven't been born you have no care for because, like the leaders of these churches you despise, you place a higher value on something other than the good of the weak and helpless in the face of those who would destroy them in body or spirit or both.

---

Very well said.

The left and the right have the same disease, but they take the greatest pride in how different their symptoms are.

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

The outrage in the case of Southern Baptists is not simply that sexual abuse occurred, it is that those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue. It is all the more outrageous because this was in character for these men.

The fundamentalist takeover of the SBC (let us call it what it was) was a series of evil acts from the beginning. It was not led by the Spirit of God as evidenced by the actions of those carrying it out. From the beginning this was clear to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear, and it left a chilling question hanging in the air: if these men would carry out the kind of pro-Satan, power-grabbing actions they were doing publicly and without shame, what would they be willing to do to protect their power and privilege when they believed no one was watching? What they did in these cases of sexual abuse, therefore, comes as a devastating, stomach-turning shock but not a great surprise.

In a broader view, however, these particular men are not unique and their particular brand of wrong-headed theology is not a unique cause of their evil. This drive to protect power and image over people infects every every human power structure, whether they are schools, government agencies, political parties or churches, and when churches substitute human principles for Christian principles, no matter their presumed motivations, disaster follows as surely as the sun rises in the East.

---

"those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue."

This happened in the Catholic Church, too. I would argue that those who covered up the abuses meted out by pedophile priests assigned to parishes and sexually abusive or sadistic priests and nuns working at religious institutions for children are no better, but no worse, than those who covered up for the abuses that occurred within evangelical congregations and children's camps.

---

It happens virtually everywhere there is abuse with the potential that the revelation of that abuse will lead to negative impact on the institution involved. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, public schools, private schools, movie studios, and so on.

Your assertion that "nothing will be done" is somewhat misinformed. At the church we attend, those of us who work with children undergo state background checks and we have a robust child protection policy in place. While a crime could happen, it is much less likely with those safeguards for children (and adults) in place. This has been the case there for a couple of decades or more. We also don't hire ministers who mistake themselves for God when they look in the mirror. That makes a difference.

You decided to bring abortion in to the thread, but this topic is about the victims of abuse that have already been born. Those who haven't been born you have no care for because, like the leaders of these churches you despise, you place a higher value on something other than the good of the weak and helpless in the face of those who would destroy them in body or spirit or both.

---

Very well said.

The left and the right have the same disease, but they take the greatest pride in how different their symptoms are.

---

The disease is the same, but the way it's addressed is quite different.

Show me a coverup of similar scope and size to that of the SBC by a group on the left.

Better yet, show me a coverup of similar scope and size to that of the Roman Catholic Church by a group on the left.

Two conservative groups with massive, horrible coverups.

C. Jordan said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

The outrage in the case of Southern Baptists is not simply that sexual abuse occurred, it is that those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue. It is all the more outrageous because this was in character for these men.

The fundamentalist takeover of the SBC (let us call it what it was) was a series of evil acts from the beginning. It was not led by the Spirit of God as evidenced by the actions of those carrying it out. From the beginning this was clear to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear, and it left a chilling question hanging in the air: if these men would carry out the kind of pro-Satan, power-grabbing actions they were doing publicly and without shame, what would they be willing to do to protect their power and privilege when they believed no one was watching? What they did in these cases of sexual abuse, therefore, comes as a devastating, stomach-turning shock but not a great surprise.

In a broader view, however, these particular men are not unique and their particular brand of wrong-headed theology is not a unique cause of their evil. This drive to protect power and image over people infects every every human power structure, whether they are schools, government agencies, political parties or churches, and when churches substitute human principles for Christian principles, no matter their presumed motivations, disaster follows as surely as the sun rises in the East.

---

"those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue."

This happened in the Catholic Church, too. I would argue that those who covered up the abuses meted out by pedophile priests assigned to parishes and sexually abusive or sadistic priests and nuns working at religious institutions for children are no better, but no worse, than those who covered up for the abuses that occurred within evangelical congregations and children's camps.

---

It happens virtually everywhere there is abuse with the potential that the revelation of that abuse will lead to negative impact on the institution involved. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, public schools, private schools, movie studios, and so on.

Your assertion that "nothing will be done" is somewhat misinformed. At the church we attend, those of us who work with children undergo state background checks and we have a robust child protection policy in place. While a crime could happen, it is much less likely with those safeguards for children (and adults) in place. This has been the case there for a couple of decades or more. We also don't hire ministers who mistake themselves for God when they look in the mirror. That makes a difference.

You decided to bring abortion in to the thread, but this topic is about the victims of abuse that have already been born. Those who haven't been born you have no care for because, like the leaders of these churches you despise, you place a higher value on something other than the good of the weak and helpless in the face of those who would destroy them in body or spirit or both.

---

Very well said.

The left and the right have the same disease, but they take the greatest pride in how different their symptoms are.

---

The disease is the same, but the way it's addressed is quite different.

Show me a coverup of similar scope and size to that of the SBC by a group on the left.

Better yet, show me a coverup of similar scope and size to that of the Roman Catholic Church by a group on the left.

Two conservative groups with massive, horrible coverups.

---

ABORTION

C. Jordan said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

The outrage in the case of Southern Baptists is not simply that sexual abuse occurred, it is that those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue. It is all the more outrageous because this was in character for these men.

The fundamentalist takeover of the SBC (let us call it what it was) was a series of evil acts from the beginning. It was not led by the Spirit of God as evidenced by the actions of those carrying it out. From the beginning this was clear to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear, and it left a chilling question hanging in the air: if these men would carry out the kind of pro-Satan, power-grabbing actions they were doing publicly and without shame, what would they be willing to do to protect their power and privilege when they believed no one was watching? What they did in these cases of sexual abuse, therefore, comes as a devastating, stomach-turning shock but not a great surprise.

In a broader view, however, these particular men are not unique and their particular brand of wrong-headed theology is not a unique cause of their evil. This drive to protect power and image over people infects every every human power structure, whether they are schools, government agencies, political parties or churches, and when churches substitute human principles for Christian principles, no matter their presumed motivations, disaster follows as surely as the sun rises in the East.

---

"those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue."

This happened in the Catholic Church, too. I would argue that those who covered up the abuses meted out by pedophile priests assigned to parishes and sexually abusive or sadistic priests and nuns working at religious institutions for children are no better, but no worse, than those who covered up for the abuses that occurred within evangelical congregations and children's camps.

---

It happens virtually everywhere there is abuse with the potential that the revelation of that abuse will lead to negative impact on the institution involved. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, public schools, private schools, movie studios, and so on.

Your assertion that "nothing will be done" is somewhat misinformed. At the church we attend, those of us who work with children undergo state background checks and we have a robust child protection policy in place. While a crime could happen, it is much less likely with those safeguards for children (and adults) in place. This has been the case there for a couple of decades or more. We also don't hire ministers who mistake themselves for God when they look in the mirror. That makes a difference.

You decided to bring abortion in to the thread, but this topic is about the victims of abuse that have already been born. Those who haven't been born you have no care for because, like the leaders of these churches you despise, you place a higher value on something other than the good of the weak and helpless in the face of those who would destroy them in body or spirit or both.

---

Very well said.

The left and the right have the same disease, but they take the greatest pride in how different their symptoms are.

---

The disease is the same, but the way it's addressed is quite different.

Show me a coverup of similar scope and size to that of the SBC by a group on the left.

Better yet, show me a coverup of similar scope and size to that of the Roman Catholic Church by a group on the left.

Two conservative groups with massive, horrible coverups.

---

Progressive liberalism can't build or maintain anything with the size and longevity of the Roman Catholic Church.

But what we can see is that even on a small scale liberal dominated institutions are just as much hot beds of sexual abuse and toxic personal relationships.

When you can build something that has 1 billion members and 2,000 of history then get back to us....vs just skinning existing organizations alive and wearing their skin as a suit (the normal liberal strategy)

Lets just take a look at the Southern Poverty Law Center. You could not even maintain a small progressive organization of less than 250 people over 50 years without scandals involving sex abuse, racism, and financial embezzlement.

J.B.Katz said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Consideration to bring Paige Patterson "on board" at any level and for any job is intentionally ingesting hemlock. The guy is a discredited power-monger who appears to lack even a modicum of grace as well as any regard or respect for institutional guidelines, integrity and institutional memory.

While the new BNG espouses a noble effort while not supplanting the SBC, make no mistake in concluding it is not positioning itself to gather the pieces of the SBC down the road and becoming a new convention. it is probably not a bad move but it has to choose leadership wisely and establish vision and mission which are clear and not couched in some "church language" and especially in some "preachers' language". Most conventions, in my experience, are catering to the professional ministers and not the lay women and men in their churches. Lay people avoid "annual meetings" because there is little offered in terms of spiritual growth or inspiration for them at those gatherings, events now full of institutional self-promotion and "business meetings".

Vision, imagination and inspiration are lacking. Those who sit in pews on Sunday and fund the professional ministers and their work have taken notice and are looking for a more fulfilling experience in faith.

---

The United Methodist Church has the same problem with its conventions, and there's also an interneccine war over acceptance of LGBTQ congregants and ministers between a conservative faction of the church and the mainstream faction that's about the split the denomination.

But the UMC started ordaining women in 1956, although women ministers only started increasing in numbers in the 1980s and did not become common until the 1990s.

Having women represented among church leadership is a partial insurance policy against a culture of ignoring reports of sexual abuse of anyone of any sex and any age. Refusing to allow women in leadership positions or refusing even to listen them speak out about their abuse (the report makes clear that some conservative leaders tried to silence women who reported abuse, and one even physically turned his back on a victim) makes it easier for male leaders to ignore, lie about, cover up and gaslight about abuse perpetrated by colleagues or friends while simultaneously blaming the victims both for their abuse and for speaking out about it.

---

The conservative "faction" is the much larger of the two sides. The split will decimate what is now called the United Methodist Church. The "mainstream" side is trying its best to keep the name and all the structure and funds. They will fade to oblivion.

C. Jordan said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

The outrage in the case of Southern Baptists is not simply that sexual abuse occurred, it is that those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue. It is all the more outrageous because this was in character for these men.

The fundamentalist takeover of the SBC (let us call it what it was) was a series of evil acts from the beginning. It was not led by the Spirit of God as evidenced by the actions of those carrying it out. From the beginning this was clear to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear, and it left a chilling question hanging in the air: if these men would carry out the kind of pro-Satan, power-grabbing actions they were doing publicly and without shame, what would they be willing to do to protect their power and privilege when they believed no one was watching? What they did in these cases of sexual abuse, therefore, comes as a devastating, stomach-turning shock but not a great surprise.

In a broader view, however, these particular men are not unique and their particular brand of wrong-headed theology is not a unique cause of their evil. This drive to protect power and image over people infects every every human power structure, whether they are schools, government agencies, political parties or churches, and when churches substitute human principles for Christian principles, no matter their presumed motivations, disaster follows as surely as the sun rises in the East.

---

"those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue."

This happened in the Catholic Church, too. I would argue that those who covered up the abuses meted out by pedophile priests assigned to parishes and sexually abusive or sadistic priests and nuns working at religious institutions for children are no better, but no worse, than those who covered up for the abuses that occurred within evangelical congregations and children's camps.

---

It happens virtually everywhere there is abuse with the potential that the revelation of that abuse will lead to negative impact on the institution involved. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, public schools, private schools, movie studios, and so on.

Your assertion that "nothing will be done" is somewhat misinformed. At the church we attend, those of us who work with children undergo state background checks and we have a robust child protection policy in place. While a crime could happen, it is much less likely with those safeguards for children (and adults) in place. This has been the case there for a couple of decades or more. We also don't hire ministers who mistake themselves for God when they look in the mirror. That makes a difference.

You decided to bring abortion in to the thread, but this topic is about the victims of abuse that have already been born. Those who haven't been born you have no care for because, like the leaders of these churches you despise, you place a higher value on something other than the good of the weak and helpless in the face of those who would destroy them in body or spirit or both.

---

Very well said.

The left and the right have the same disease, but they take the greatest pride in how different their symptoms are.

---

The disease is the same, but the way it's addressed is quite different.

Show me a coverup of similar scope and size to that of the SBC by a group on the left.

Better yet, show me a coverup of similar scope and size to that of the Roman Catholic Church by a group on the left.

Two conservative groups with massive, horrible coverups.

---

I'm not just talking about sex scandals. The whole gamut of sins from divorce to abortion, gay marriage, greed, contempt for the poor, the sick, and the old (see the Covid pandemic) all stem from a lack of charity toward the most vulnerable.

C. Jordan said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

The outrage in the case of Southern Baptists is not simply that sexual abuse occurred, it is that those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue. It is all the more outrageous because this was in character for these men.

The fundamentalist takeover of the SBC (let us call it what it was) was a series of evil acts from the beginning. It was not led by the Spirit of God as evidenced by the actions of those carrying it out. From the beginning this was clear to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear, and it left a chilling question hanging in the air: if these men would carry out the kind of pro-Satan, power-grabbing actions they were doing publicly and without shame, what would they be willing to do to protect their power and privilege when they believed no one was watching? What they did in these cases of sexual abuse, therefore, comes as a devastating, stomach-turning shock but not a great surprise.

In a broader view, however, these particular men are not unique and their particular brand of wrong-headed theology is not a unique cause of their evil. This drive to protect power and image over people infects every every human power structure, whether they are schools, government agencies, political parties or churches, and when churches substitute human principles for Christian principles, no matter their presumed motivations, disaster follows as surely as the sun rises in the East.

---

"those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue."

This happened in the Catholic Church, too. I would argue that those who covered up the abuses meted out by pedophile priests assigned to parishes and sexually abusive or sadistic priests and nuns working at religious institutions for children are no better, but no worse, than those who covered up for the abuses that occurred within evangelical congregations and children's camps.

---

It happens virtually everywhere there is abuse with the potential that the revelation of that abuse will lead to negative impact on the institution involved. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, public schools, private schools, movie studios, and so on.

Your assertion that "nothing will be done" is somewhat misinformed. At the church we attend, those of us who work with children undergo state background checks and we have a robust child protection policy in place. While a crime could happen, it is much less likely with those safeguards for children (and adults) in place. This has been the case there for a couple of decades or more. We also don't hire ministers who mistake themselves for God when they look in the mirror. That makes a difference.

You decided to bring abortion in to the thread, but this topic is about the victims of abuse that have already been born. Those who haven't been born you have no care for because, like the leaders of these churches you despise, you place a higher value on something other than the good of the weak and helpless in the face of those who would destroy them in body or spirit or both.

---

Very well said.

The left and the right have the same disease, but they take the greatest pride in how different their symptoms are.

---

The disease is the same, but the way it's addressed is quite different.

Show me a coverup of similar scope and size to that of the SBC by a group on the left.

Better yet, show me a coverup of similar scope and size to that of the Roman Catholic Church by a group on the left.

Two conservative groups with massive, horrible coverups.

---

What a interesting question.

First off, anything that happens on the left gets half the publicity of conservative institutions failing. Its a fact. The media is incredibly biased to the left.

After all... when's the last time we talked about the dems just giving Afghanistan to the Taliban and abandoning American allies to die? NEXT! Or the fact that we have a president in clear cognitive decline that has to have a cue card to remember who is safe to take questions from so he doesn't say anything too ridiculous. *crickets* If Biden had an (R) next to his name there would have been an investigation from the word "cornpop" and Harris would be pres. But, the only less competent person than Biden to be president is next in line for the throne... Dems know better than to give her full control.

Planned parenthood selling aborted baby body parts? That should be a colossal scandal. Nothing...

Jeffrey Epstein as well. Thats probably a bi partisan scandal truthfully.

Or how about the fact that the founder of BLM lives in a $6mil mansion paid for with donated funds? The media let that one go pretty quickly.

There's also the ACORN scandal. That was a good time...

But aside from those examples off the top of my head, how do you have a scandalous coverup when there is no real structured morality or ethics to cover up? Unborn? Kill em. Totally fine. Little boys? Make them girls. Give minors puberty blockers. Totally fine. Now's theres advocacy for pedophilia and infanticide. These should all be colossal scandals. Instead its in vogue...

I can understand how these allegations might be true because the same type of morally hypocritical individuals on the Baylor Board of Regents covered up and would not allow ANY Sexual Assault allegations on Baylor's campus to be reported at least between 2000 and 2008. But it turned out ok. They just scapegoated Briles, and the BOR just skated on through.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

In a broader view, however, these particular men are not unique and their particular brand of wrong-headed theology is not a unique cause of their evil. This drive to protect power and image over people infects every every human power structure, whether they are schools, government agencies, political parties or churches, and when churches substitute human principles for Christian principles, no matter their presumed motivations, disaster follows as surely as the sun rises in the East.

---

Excellent read .

+ 1