Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I am about the same size you were. I was on a swim team, taught swimming out at Lions Park, worked as life guard out at Fish Pond. I still swim a lot here. I dont think the number of warrants should be a factor but thats just me.

Woth an adult still struggling i could tske off my pants and sling a pants leg to him and tow him. I know better than toblet him climb on me. We were taught to go under water turn them around and come in from behind ( not a butt sex reference calm down). Theres slso a hair pull. You can make a decent life jacket from a pair of pants. There were three policeman there.
Maybe the policeman should be trained better but that man should not have drowned imo.

---

Should not have drowned? You can argue that the police should have at least attempted a rescue, but to say the rescue should also have been successful is saying too much. Let's be clear - the man should not have drowned, because he should not have made the bad decision to swim in that lake, where it wasn't allowed, and when he was clearly unfit to do so. If you reaped what you sowed, you can't blame that on the lack of heroic efforts of others.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I am about the same size you were. I was on a swim team, taught swimming out at Lions Park, worked as life guard out at Fish Pond. I still swim a lot here. I dont think the number of warrants should be a factor but thats just me.

Woth an adult still struggling i could tske off my pants and sling a pants leg to him and tow him. I know better than toblet him climb on me. We were taught to go under water turn them around and come in from behind ( not a butt sex reference calm down). Theres slso a hair pull. You can make a decent life jacket from a pair of pants. There were three policeman there.
Maybe the policeman should be trained better but that man should not have drowned imo.

---

Should not have drowned? You can argue that the police should have at least attempted a rescue, but to say the rescue should also have been successful is saying too much. Let's be clear - the man should not have drowned, because he should not have made the bad decision to swim in that lake, where it wasn't allowed, and when he was clearly unfit to do so. If you reaped what you sowed, you can't blame that on the lack of heroic efforts of others.

---

How about

He should not have drowned without an attempted rescue by the city employees that are paid to protect and serve the public?

Yell for help and pull the person out of the water.
Call 9-1-1 immediately.
Begin CPR if you are trained. If you are not trained to administer CPR, follow the instructions from the 9-1-1 operator until help arrives.

This quote is from the tempe water safety plan developed by the city.

The officers are on paid leave. I usually side with the police. Its a difficult job. Three public safety officials watching a man drown is not good.

OsoCoreyell said:

---

Amal Shuq-Up said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Amal Shuq-Up said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I couldnt listen to cries for help and not help.

---

It is a shame you were not there. The world would be a better place because of your heroic efforts.

---

I dont think it made much difference if the guy lived or not. Certainly not to the posters on this forum. I could not stand and listen to a man cry for help as he died. Just the way I was raised. I understand not everyone is the same.

---

I hope if you are ever confronted with a similar situation that you will not jump in a river after a grown man. Trying to rescue the drowning is very dangerous.

---

Very. Takes special training. As a lifeguard, I swam out after a kid who broke his leg. Me and another lifeguard did the "dummy in the front" routine where you distract the drowning person with someone swimming right at them and the real rescuer comes up from behind them. I was the "dummy" and got too close. 120 lb kid with a broken leg KO'd me trying to climb on top of me. I had to be rescued. Scary stuff.

---

But, it looks so easy on TV. Really if you aren't an expert, which you of course were, it would be extremely dangerous to try saving someone.

cowboycwr said:

---

Seems like this story is a bad attempt to attack police.

Police are not trained to be lifeguards and do deep water rescues.

Think about what an officer wears- vest, full clothes, belt with gun, radio, ammo, handcuffs, usually boots or sturdy shoes, etc. Lots of extra weight, and once wet would slow them down when they jump in or require a minute to take it all off to then jump in.

---

Most police departments require firemen and policemen to take water safety courses.

I usually side with the police but three officers standing by and watching is puzzling.


Judge "Officer Stadanko, did you hear the man calling for help?"

Officer Stadanko, "yes your honor, we all heard him."

Judge "Did you realize he was drowning""

Officer Stadanko "We thought he might be having trouble. We told him to swim"

Judge "Why didnt you help him beyond giving advice?"

Officer Stadanko "Are you kidding your honor? It takes a good 15 seconds to get my gun belt off and another 14 seconds to kick off my newly polished shoes. And I had just had my pants dry cleaned.
Plus the guy had three warrants out on him. "

cowboycwr said:

---

Seems like this story is a bad attempt to attack police.

Police are not trained to be lifeguards and do deep water rescues.

Think about what an officer wears- vest, full clothes, belt with gun, radio, ammo, handcuffs, usually boots or sturdy shoes, etc. Lots of extra weight, and once wet would slow them down when they jump in or require a minute to take it all off to then jump in.

---

I agree. The first half of the story paints one picture and the second half is different. They led with the worst story

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Seems like this story is a bad attempt to attack police.

Police are not trained to be lifeguards and do deep water rescues.

Think about what an officer wears- vest, full clothes, belt with gun, radio, ammo, handcuffs, usually boots or sturdy shoes, etc. Lots of extra weight, and once wet would slow them down when they jump in or require a minute to take it all off to then jump in.

---

Most police departments require firemen and policemen to take water safety courses.

I usually side with the police but three officers standing by and watching is puzzling.


Judge "Officer Stadanko, did you hear the man calling for help?"

Officer Stadanko, "yes your honor, we all heard him."

Judge "Did you realize he was drowning""

Officer Stadanko "We thought he might be having trouble. We told him to swim"

Judge "Why didnt you help him beyond giving advice?"

Officer Stadanko "Are you kidding your honor? It takes a good 15 seconds to get my gun belt off and another 14 seconds to kick off my newly polished shoes. And I had just had my pants dry cleaned.
Plus the guy had three warrants out on him. "

---

This is why it baffles me that gun control laws exempt law enforcement. They have no duty to protect or save you. This and Uvalde should show everyone you're on your own.

JL said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Seems like this story is a bad attempt to attack police.

Police are not trained to be lifeguards and do deep water rescues.

Think about what an officer wears- vest, full clothes, belt with gun, radio, ammo, handcuffs, usually boots or sturdy shoes, etc. Lots of extra weight, and once wet would slow them down when they jump in or require a minute to take it all off to then jump in.

---

Most police departments require firemen and policemen to take water safety courses.

I usually side with the police but three officers standing by and watching is puzzling.


Judge "Officer Stadanko, did you hear the man calling for help?"

Officer Stadanko, "yes your honor, we all heard him."

Judge "Did you realize he was drowning""

Officer Stadanko "We thought he might be having trouble. We told him to swim"

Judge "Why didnt you help him beyond giving advice?"

Officer Stadanko "Are you kidding your honor? It takes a good 15 seconds to get my gun belt off and another 14 seconds to kick off my newly polished shoes. And I had just had my pants dry cleaned.
Plus the guy had three warrants out on him. "

---

This is why it baffles me that gun control laws exempt law enforcement. They have no duty to protect or save you. This and Uvalde should show everyone you're on your own.

---

That may be the lesson of Uvalde, but not Tempe. The lesson of Tempe is don't recklessly put your life at risk and expect someone to save you

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Seems like this story is a bad attempt to attack police.

Police are not trained to be lifeguards and do deep water rescues.

Think about what an officer wears- vest, full clothes, belt with gun, radio, ammo, handcuffs, usually boots or sturdy shoes, etc. Lots of extra weight, and once wet would slow them down when they jump in or require a minute to take it all off to then jump in.

---

Most police departments require firemen and policemen to take water safety courses.

I usually side with the police but three officers standing by and watching is puzzling.


Judge "Officer Stadanko, did you hear the man calling for help?"

Officer Stadanko, "yes your honor, we all heard him."

Judge "Did you realize he was drowning""

Officer Stadanko "We thought he might be having trouble. We told him to swim"

Judge "Why didnt you help him beyond giving advice?"

Officer Stadanko "Are you kidding your honor? It takes a good 15 seconds to get my gun belt off and another 14 seconds to kick off my newly polished shoes. And I had just had my pants dry cleaned.
Plus the guy had three warrants out on him. "

---

This is like Biden wondering why police don't shoot felons in the leg

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I am about the same size you were. I was on a swim team, taught swimming out at Lions Park, worked as life guard out at Fish Pond. I still swim a lot here. I dont think the number of warrants should be a factor but thats just me.

Woth an adult still struggling i could tske off my pants and sling a pants leg to him and tow him. I know better than toblet him climb on me. We were taught to go under water turn them around and come in from behind ( not a butt sex reference calm down). Theres slso a hair pull. You can make a decent life jacket from a pair of pants. There were three policeman there.
Maybe the policeman should be trained better but that man should not have drowned imo.

---

Should not have drowned? You can argue that the police should have at least attempted a rescue, but to say the rescue should also have been successful is saying too much. Let's be clear - the man should not have drowned, because he should not have made the bad decision to swim in that lake, where it wasn't allowed, and when he was clearly unfit to do so. If you reaped what you sowed, you can't blame that on the lack of heroic efforts of others.

---

How about

He should not have drowned without an attempted rescue by the city employees that are paid to protect and serve the public?

Yell for help and pull the person out of the water.
Call 9-1-1 immediately.
Begin CPR if you are trained. If you are not trained to administer CPR, follow the instructions from the 9-1-1 operator until help arrives.

This quote is from the tempe water safety plan developed by the city.

The officers are on paid leave. I usually side with the police. Its a difficult job. Three public safety officials watching a man drown is not good.

---

Your first sentence is what I said you could argue.

But in this case, simply saying to just "pull the person out of the water" when he was in deep, dark, open waters is assuming too much regarding skill level. I doubt the Tempe water safety plan applies here.

Remember the border patrolman who drowned trying to save an illegal crosser? No court is gonna fault these officers for not going in the water to try and save him. Perhaps they'll fault them for not trying some other way, but aside from getting in the water, and there being no rescue equipment available they could throw to him, what do you suggest they could do?

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I am about the same size you were. I was on a swim team, taught swimming out at Lions Park, worked as life guard out at Fish Pond. I still swim a lot here. I dont think the number of warrants should be a factor but thats just me.

Woth an adult still struggling i could tske off my pants and sling a pants leg to him and tow him. I know better than toblet him climb on me. We were taught to go under water turn them around and come in from behind ( not a butt sex reference calm down). Theres slso a hair pull. You can make a decent life jacket from a pair of pants. There were three policeman there.
Maybe the policeman should be trained better but that man should not have drowned imo.

---

Should not have drowned? You can argue that the police should have at least attempted a rescue, but to say the rescue should also have been successful is saying too much. Let's be clear - the man should not have drowned, because he should not have made the bad decision to swim in that lake, where it wasn't allowed, and when he was clearly unfit to do so. If you reaped what you sowed, you can't blame that on the lack of heroic efforts of others.

---

How about

He should not have drowned without an attempted rescue by the city employees that are paid to protect and serve the public?

Yell for help and pull the person out of the water.
Call 9-1-1 immediately.
Begin CPR if you are trained. If you are not trained to administer CPR, follow the instructions from the 9-1-1 operator until help arrives.

This quote is from the tempe water safety plan developed by the city.

The officers are on paid leave. I usually side with the police. Its a difficult job. Three public safety officials watching a man drown is not good.

---

Your first sentence is what I said you could argue.

But in this case, simply saying to just "pull the person out of the water" when he was in deep, dark, open waters is assuming too much regarding skill level. I doubt the Tempe water safety plan applies here.

Remember the border patrolman who drowned trying to save an illegal crosser? No court is gonna fault these officers for not going in the water to try and save him. Perhaps they'll fault them for not trying some other way, but aside from getting in the water, and there being no rescue equipment available they could throw to him, what do you suggest they could do?

---

I believe the report stated that the officers called for a rescue boat, once the man began to swim away from the shoreline... but maybe I'm wrong.

Amal Shuq-Up said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Amal Shuq-Up said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I couldnt listen to cries for help and not help.

---

It is a shame you were not there. The world would be a better place because of your heroic efforts.

---

I dont think it made much difference if the guy lived or not. Certainly not to the posters on this forum. I could not stand and listen to a man cry for help as he died. Just the way I was raised. I understand not everyone is the same.

---

I hope if you are ever confronted with a similar situation that you will not jump in a river after a grown man. Trying to rescue the drowning is very dangerous.

---

Thank you for your advice and concern.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I am about the same size you were. I was on a swim team, taught swimming out at Lions Park, worked as life guard out at Fish Pond. I still swim a lot here. I dont think the number of warrants should be a factor but thats just me.

Woth an adult still struggling i could tske off my pants and sling a pants leg to him and tow him. I know better than toblet him climb on me. We were taught to go under water turn them around and come in from behind ( not a butt sex reference calm down). Theres slso a hair pull. You can make a decent life jacket from a pair of pants. There were three policeman there.
Maybe the policeman should be trained better but that man should not have drowned imo.

---

Should not have drowned? You can argue that the police should have at least attempted a rescue, but to say the rescue should also have been successful is saying too much. Let's be clear - the man should not have drowned, because he should not have made the bad decision to swim in that lake, where it wasn't allowed, and when he was clearly unfit to do so. If you reaped what you sowed, you can't blame that on the lack of heroic efforts of others.

---

How about

He should not have drowned without an attempted rescue by the city employees that are paid to protect and serve the public?

Yell for help and pull the person out of the water.
Call 9-1-1 immediately.
Begin CPR if you are trained. If you are not trained to administer CPR, follow the instructions from the 9-1-1 operator until help arrives.

This quote is from the tempe water safety plan developed by the city.

The officers are on paid leave. I usually side with the police. Its a difficult job. Three public safety officials watching a man drown is not good.

---

Your first sentence is what I said you could argue.

But in this case, simply saying to just "pull the person out of the water" when he was in deep, dark, open waters is assuming too much regarding skill level. I doubt the Tempe water safety plan applies here.

Remember the border patrolman who drowned trying to save an illegal crosser? No court is gonna fault these officers for not going in the water to try and save him. Perhaps they'll fault them for not trying some other way, but aside from getting in the water, and there being no rescue equipment available they could throw to him, what do you suggest they could do?

---

1. Get closer to him and throw him something that floats.

2. Grab the spare tire and get as close as you can. Push it to him and tell him to hold on to it.

3, Swim to him with spare tire Let him hold on to it. If he tries to grab you get away and just let him float till he calms down.

3. Take off your pants. Swim to him and sling a pants leg to him. Tow him in.

4. Use a belt. Use three bels to form a life line. Tow him in.

5. Call an ambulance or a rescue vehicle that can get there faster than the two hours the boat took.

6.. Jackets and any other clothing can be tied together to make a rope

None of these involve special training. Using what they used to call a arm bar hold or a hair pull hold sometime works but are more dangerous methods.

Of course most of these involve the officers getting wet.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I am about the same size you were. I was on a swim team, taught swimming out at Lions Park, worked as life guard out at Fish Pond. I still swim a lot here. I dont think the number of warrants should be a factor but thats just me.

Woth an adult still struggling i could tske off my pants and sling a pants leg to him and tow him. I know better than toblet him climb on me. We were taught to go under water turn them around and come in from behind ( not a butt sex reference calm down). Theres slso a hair pull. You can make a decent life jacket from a pair of pants. There were three policeman there.
Maybe the policeman should be trained better but that man should not have drowned imo.

---

Should not have drowned? You can argue that the police should have at least attempted a rescue, but to say the rescue should also have been successful is saying too much. Let's be clear - the man should not have drowned, because he should not have made the bad decision to swim in that lake, where it wasn't allowed, and when he was clearly unfit to do so. If you reaped what you sowed, you can't blame that on the lack of heroic efforts of others.

---

How about

He should not have drowned without an attempted rescue by the city employees that are paid to protect and serve the public?

Yell for help and pull the person out of the water.
Call 9-1-1 immediately.
Begin CPR if you are trained. If you are not trained to administer CPR, follow the instructions from the 9-1-1 operator until help arrives.

This quote is from the tempe water safety plan developed by the city.

The officers are on paid leave. I usually side with the police. Its a difficult job. Three public safety officials watching a man drown is not good.

---

Your first sentence is what I said you could argue.

But in this case, simply saying to just "pull the person out of the water" when he was in deep, dark, open waters is assuming too much regarding skill level. I doubt the Tempe water safety plan applies here.

Remember the border patrolman who drowned trying to save an illegal crosser? No court is gonna fault these officers for not going in the water to try and save him. Perhaps they'll fault them for not trying some other way, but aside from getting in the water, and there being no rescue equipment available they could throw to him, what do you suggest they could do?

---

1. Get closer to him and throw him something that floats.

2. Grab the spare tire and get as close as you can. Push it to him and tell him to hold on to it.

3, Swim to him with spare tire Let him hold on to it. If he tries to grab you get away and just let him float till he calms down.

3. Take off your pants. Swim to him and sliing a pants leg to him. Tow him in.

4. Use a belt. Use three bels to form a life line. Tow him in.

5. Call an ambulance or a rescue vehicle that can get there fatster than the two hours the boat took.

6.. Jackets and any other clothing can be tied together to make a rope

None of these involve special training. using what they used to call a arm bar hold or a hair pull hold sometime works but are more dangerous methods.

---

You have a panicking, mentally unstable man who has fled from you and failed to heed your warnings. This includes the initial warning of not getting into the lake and not swimming into the lake because the officers would not jump in after him.

The officers were already uncomfortable following him in and your expectation is that they should attempt the rescue anyways? A failed rescue in this case likely results in another drowning, not just the initial victim. This guy was 40 yards out. Even with an healthy breakfast of donuts, those cops' belts aren't going to reach that far. They called for help from the water rescue team, that is all that should be expected in this situation. You couldn't hurl a life preserver or a flotation device that far, even you if you trying your best.

Your post hoc rationalization here is ridiculous. Reactions at the time they are occurring differ significantly from after the fact considerations.

And jus to put a bow on the point that there is an inherent risk of drowning to water rescues, here is an example of a failed one. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/massachusetts-officer-dies-trying-save-teen-who-drowned-city-pond-n1269724

JL said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Seems like this story is a bad attempt to attack police.

Police are not trained to be lifeguards and do deep water rescues.

Think about what an officer wears- vest, full clothes, belt with gun, radio, ammo, handcuffs, usually boots or sturdy shoes, etc. Lots of extra weight, and once wet would slow them down when they jump in or require a minute to take it all off to then jump in.

---

Most police departments require firemen and policemen to take water safety courses.

I usually side with the police but three officers standing by and watching is puzzling.


Judge "Officer Stadanko, did you hear the man calling for help?"

Officer Stadanko, "yes your honor, we all heard him."

Judge "Did you realize he was drowning""

Officer Stadanko "We thought he might be having trouble. We told him to swim"

Judge "Why didnt you help him beyond giving advice?"

Officer Stadanko "Are you kidding your honor? It takes a good 15 seconds to get my gun belt off and another 14 seconds to kick off my newly polished shoes. And I had just had my pants dry cleaned.
Plus the guy had three warrants out on him. "

---

This is why it baffles me that gun control laws exempt law enforcement. They have no duty to protect or save you. This and Uvalde should show everyone you're on your own.

---

If Uvalde doesn't show you that you have to protect yourself and you have to on your own, nothing would. I like the AR-15 and it is fine for home protection, but 19 officers had him SERIOUSLY outgunned. If just one person would have stepped up this ends much sooner, but nobody did until the Border Patrol folks showed up.

As I stated, my solutions would have required the officers to get wet as they tried to get closer.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I am about the same size you were. I was on a swim team, taught swimming out at Lions Park, worked as life guard out at Fish Pond. I still swim a lot here. I dont think the number of warrants should be a factor but thats just me.

Woth an adult still struggling i could tske off my pants and sling a pants leg to him and tow him. I know better than toblet him climb on me. We were taught to go under water turn them around and come in from behind ( not a butt sex reference calm down). Theres slso a hair pull. You can make a decent life jacket from a pair of pants. There were three policeman there.
Maybe the policeman should be trained better but that man should not have drowned imo.

---

Should not have drowned? You can argue that the police should have at least attempted a rescue, but to say the rescue should also have been successful is saying too much. Let's be clear - the man should not have drowned, because he should not have made the bad decision to swim in that lake, where it wasn't allowed, and when he was clearly unfit to do so. If you reaped what you sowed, you can't blame that on the lack of heroic efforts of others.

---

How about

He should not have drowned without an attempted rescue by the city employees that are paid to protect and serve the public?

Yell for help and pull the person out of the water.
Call 9-1-1 immediately.
Begin CPR if you are trained. If you are not trained to administer CPR, follow the instructions from the 9-1-1 operator until help arrives.

This quote is from the tempe water safety plan developed by the city.

The officers are on paid leave. I usually side with the police. Its a difficult job. Three public safety officials watching a man drown is not good.

---

Your first sentence is what I said you could argue.

But in this case, simply saying to just "pull the person out of the water" when he was in deep, dark, open waters is assuming too much regarding skill level. I doubt the Tempe water safety plan applies here.

Remember the border patrolman who drowned trying to save an illegal crosser? No court is gonna fault these officers for not going in the water to try and save him. Perhaps they'll fault them for not trying some other way, but aside from getting in the water, and there being no rescue equipment available they could throw to him, what do you suggest they could do?

---

1. Get closer to him and throw him something that floats.

2. Grab the spare tire and get as close as you can. Push it to him and tell him to hold on to it.

3, Swim to him with spare tire Let him hold on to it. If he tries to grab you get away and just let him float till he calms down.

3. Take off your pants. Swim to him and sling a pants leg to him. Tow him in.

4. Use a belt. Use three bels to form a life line. Tow him in.

5. Call an ambulance or a rescue vehicle that can get there faster than the two hours the boat took.

6.. Jackets and any other clothing can be tied together to make a rope

None of these involve special training. Using what they used to call a arm bar hold or a hair pull hold sometime works but are more dangerous methods.

Of course most of these involve the officers getting wet.

---

1. Assumes there is something that floats nearby. I did not see anything in the video

2. As fast as he went down the time it takes to do this one he would have been under

3. Unless he doesn't calm down and proceeds to chase you and then you get tired and are now the drowning one. Or he doesn't calm down and drowns anyway.

4. 3 belts don't do much good when he is 40 YARDS away. And then means you have to worry about him climbing up to get to you

5. Even the fastest response would have taken longer than this man took to drown

6. again 40 yards away. That is a lot of jackets

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Seems like this story is a bad attempt to attack police.

Police are not trained to be lifeguards and do deep water rescues.

Think about what an officer wears- vest, full clothes, belt with gun, radio, ammo, handcuffs, usually boots or sturdy shoes, etc. Lots of extra weight, and once wet would slow them down when they jump in or require a minute to take it all off to then jump in.

---

Most police departments require firemen and policemen to take water safety courses.

I usually side with the police but three officers standing by and watching is puzzling.


Judge "Officer Stadanko, did you hear the man calling for help?"

Officer Stadanko, "yes your honor, we all heard him."

Judge "Did you realize he was drowning""

Officer Stadanko "We thought he might be having trouble. We told him to swim"

Judge "Why didnt you help him beyond giving advice?"

Officer Stadanko "Are you kidding your honor? It takes a good 15 seconds to get my gun belt off and another 14 seconds to kick off my newly polished shoes. And I had just had my pants dry cleaned.
Plus the guy had three warrants out on him. "

---

Judge: Why didn't you save him?

Officer: I am not a trained deep water lifeguard that was fully dressed as a police officer.

Judge; Case dismissed.

cowboycwr said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Seems like this story is a bad attempt to attack police.

Police are not trained to be lifeguards and do deep water rescues.

Think about what an officer wears- vest, full clothes, belt with gun, radio, ammo, handcuffs, usually boots or sturdy shoes, etc. Lots of extra weight, and once wet would slow them down when they jump in or require a minute to take it all off to then jump in.

---

Most police departments require firemen and policemen to take water safety courses.

I usually side with the police but three officers standing by and watching is puzzling.


Judge "Officer Stadanko, did you hear the man calling for help?"

Officer Stadanko, "yes your honor, we all heard him."

Judge "Did you realize he was drowning""

Officer Stadanko "We thought he might be having trouble. We told him to swim"

Judge "Why didnt you help him beyond giving advice?"

Officer Stadanko "Are you kidding your honor? It takes a good 15 seconds to get my gun belt off and another 14 seconds to kick off my newly polished shoes. And I had just had my pants dry cleaned.
Plus the guy had three warrants out on him. "

---

Judge: Why didn't you save him?

Officer: I am not a trained deep water lifeguard that was fully dressed as a police officer.

Judge; Case dismissed.

---

I am sure the police union will tale care of them.

shouldda tried to harpoon the man.

- kkm

BID.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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I am about the same size you were. I was on a swim team, taught swimming out at Lions Park, worked as life guard out at Fish Pond. I still swim a lot here. I dont think the number of warrants should be a factor but thats just me.

Woth an adult still struggling i could tske off my pants and sling a pants leg to him and tow him. I know better than toblet him climb on me. We were taught to go under water turn them around and come in from behind ( not a butt sex reference calm down). Theres slso a hair pull. You can make a decent life jacket from a pair of pants. There were three policeman there.
Maybe the policeman should be trained better but that man should not have drowned imo.

---

Should not have drowned? You can argue that the police should have at least attempted a rescue, but to say the rescue should also have been successful is saying too much. Let's be clear - the man should not have drowned, because he should not have made the bad decision to swim in that lake, where it wasn't allowed, and when he was clearly unfit to do so. If you reaped what you sowed, you can't blame that on the lack of heroic efforts of others.

---

How about

He should not have drowned without an attempted rescue by the city employees that are paid to protect and serve the public?

Yell for help and pull the person out of the water.
Call 9-1-1 immediately.
Begin CPR if you are trained. If you are not trained to administer CPR, follow the instructions from the 9-1-1 operator until help arrives.

This quote is from the tempe water safety plan developed by the city.

The officers are on paid leave. I usually side with the police. Its a difficult job. Three public safety officials watching a man drown is not good.

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Your first sentence is what I said you could argue.

But in this case, simply saying to just "pull the person out of the water" when he was in deep, dark, open waters is assuming too much regarding skill level. I doubt the Tempe water safety plan applies here.

Remember the border patrolman who drowned trying to save an illegal crosser? No court is gonna fault these officers for not going in the water to try and save him. Perhaps they'll fault them for not trying some other way, but aside from getting in the water, and there being no rescue equipment available they could throw to him, what do you suggest they could do?

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1. Get closer to him and throw him something that floats.

2. Grab the spare tire and get as close as you can. Push it to him and tell him to hold on to it.

3, Swim to him with spare tire Let him hold on to it. If he tries to grab you get away and just let him float till he calms down.

3. Take off your pants. Swim to him and sling a pants leg to him. Tow him in.

4. Use a belt. Use three bels to form a life line. Tow him in.

5. Call an ambulance or a rescue vehicle that can get there faster than the two hours the boat took.

6.. Jackets and any other clothing can be tied together to make a rope

None of these involve special training. Using what they used to call a arm bar hold or a hair pull hold sometime works but are more dangerous methods.

Of course most of these involve the officers getting wet.

---

You are again assuming too much regarding the ability of non-lifeguards. Tow him in? Towing a drowning man who is well over 200 pounds in deep water is very difficult even for a good swimmer. For a person who has no swim training at all, it would be next to impossible. Not to mention that by the time you are able to fashion a towing device and swim out to him, he'll already be under. At that point, you'd need to blindly go under to try and locate him, and pull him up - something only an extremely fit and skilled lifeguard could do without drowning.

The only plausible options you give are calling an ambulance or throwing him a spare tire. But again, by the time these are done, he is under water, so they wouldn't help. That is unless one of the ambulance guys is also an extremely fit lifeguard.

Redbrickbear said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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I don't think these cops could have done anything if they wanted to.

Quote:

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The city said Bickings "swam about 30-40 yards before repeatedly indicating he was in distress."

It added: "He soon went under and did not resurface."

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He went under after only traveling 40 yards in moving water. That's very fast.

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If you watch the video, there's not much in the way of moving water. This couple seemed to have some serious mental issues

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It was in Tempe town lake.

Would be like a guy drowning in Lake brazos by the law school or lady bird lake in downtown Austin.

Very little of any current or undertow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempe_Town_Lake

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That was how I saw it. Not like he went overboard at Niagra

EatMoreSalmon said:

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I wonder how many people have mental issues due to drugs, including babies born to drug addicts.

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We need more abortion?

ShooterTX said:

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OsoCoreyell said:

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Amal Shuq-Up said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Amal Shuq-Up said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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I couldnt listen to cries for help and not help.

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It is a shame you were not there. The world would be a better place because of your heroic efforts.

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I dont think it made much difference if the guy lived or not. Certainly not to the posters on this forum. I could not stand and listen to a man cry for help as he died. Just the way I was raised. I understand not everyone is the same.

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I hope if you are ever confronted with a similar situation that you will not jump in a river after a grown man. Trying to rescue the drowning is very dangerous.

---

Very. Takes special training. As a lifeguard, I swam out after a kid who broke his leg. Me and another lifeguard did the "dummy in the front" routine where you distract the drowning person with someone swimming right at them and the real rescuer comes up from behind them. I was the "dummy" and got too close. 120 lb kid with a broken leg KO'd me trying to climb on top of me. I had to be rescued. Scary stuff.

---

exactly.

I worked for a few summers as a lifeguard. I rescued about 11 kids and only 2 adults. Back then I was playing LB in high school. I was 5' 11 and 190lbs, in excellent shape. Both rescues of adults nearly cost me my life. Thankfully both of those were in diving pools, instead of lakes or big rivers. The largest person I rescued was a woman who was in her 40s. She probably weighed around 170lbs, and she dang near killed me. I doubt I would have made it in a body of water similar to that lake in the video. I did rescue a 100lb kid out of a large lake. Thankfully I was large enough to grab him and hold him steady. He fought me, but had no chance to break free or swing around on me. After a few seconds, I was able to calm him down for the rest of the swim back to the dock.

The guy in that video was very large, and he got pretty far away from the shoreline. If the average person jumped in to try and rescue him, they would be dead right now. He had already demonstrated that he was out of his mind, so there is no chance that he would have reacted rationally or obeyed any commands... it would have just added to the body count.

---

Maybe they could have tazed him? Anyone with any swimming knows you can't just swim up on someone literally drowning and save them. You have less than a 50/50 shot of surviving if that person is bigger and stronger than you

Throw them a rope? Sure. A flotation device? Sure. Multiple people to pull your in? Sure.

1 on 1? No way. Suicide mission

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I am about the same size you were. I was on a swim team, taught swimming out at Lions Park, worked as life guard out at Fish Pond. I still swim a lot here. I dont think the number of warrants should be a factor but thats just me.

Woth an adult still struggling i could tske off my pants and sling a pants leg to him and tow him. I know better than toblet him climb on me. We were taught to go under water turn them around and come in from behind ( not a butt sex reference calm down). Theres slso a hair pull. You can make a decent life jacket from a pair of pants. There were three policeman there.
Maybe the policeman should be trained better but that man should not have drowned imo.

---

Should not have drowned? You can argue that the police should have at least attempted a rescue, but to say the rescue should also have been successful is saying too much. Let's be clear - the man should not have drowned, because he should not have made the bad decision to swim in that lake, where it wasn't allowed, and when he was clearly unfit to do so. If you reaped what you sowed, you can't blame that on the lack of heroic efforts of others.

---

How about

He should not have drowned without an attempted rescue by the city employees that are paid to protect and serve the public?

Yell for help and pull the person out of the water.
Call 9-1-1 immediately.
Begin CPR if you are trained. If you are not trained to administer CPR, follow the instructions from the 9-1-1 operator until help arrives.

This quote is from the tempe water safety plan developed by the city.

The officers are on paid leave. I usually side with the police. Its a difficult job. Three public safety officials watching a man drown is not good.

---

We don't have the full video (as always but shocked how much they really let us see which is super odd as they could have leveraged this easily), why didn't they go to the car and get a rope? Is there no rope or anything similar in a cop car? Find that hard to believe. I have rope, bungy cords, small bats / clubs, guns etc all within 3 feet of me at all times.

Are there people confused about what cops job description is? They're not generally water rescue experts. I mean if my car needs an oil change can
I be outraged if the cops don't change it for me?

Fre3dombear said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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I wonder how many people have mental issues due to drugs, including babies born to drug addicts.

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We need more abortion?

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No. We need people to take responsibility for their mistakes and not add to them. Do hard drugs? Don't have sex, or if you can't trust yourself, get sterilized. Don't ruin a second life.

Maybe we should make sterilization free.

In the meantime, we need to address the mental issues left behind by drug addiction. Canada is correct on the mental issues front.

I used to service approx 300 police interceptors. Everything in a cruiser is accounted for. There is no "junk" in a one. The back seat is formed in almost every case so there is nothing back there. The front seat will have a radio setup, a laptop mount couple other electronics and, typically, a shotgun mount (though that has become harder to do since the discontinuation of the Crown Vic models). The Explorer based units almost all have a shotgun mount in them. The trunk will be based on usage but in almost every instance there is a bolted in safe, a number of rifle/shotgun mounts, a long gun and a first aid kit. Most patrol units have a go bag that varies from department to department.

I've never seen rope, bats, life preservers in any cruiser and I did a large city, several municipalities and the Ohio State Patrol. To the point I had a master key (they are keyed alike) and my own entry access code to the lot for the county seat.

I take no issue with them not entering the water. I've seen a pretty good chunk of the video. My issue is the callous nature they handled the situation and the fact that they probably didn't take him seriously until the threat was too great. Now there is no way of knowing that would happen. Getting the water to go after him is likely a non starter and I'm not sure they did anything wrong; per se. However, I don't love that interaction and I think this was probably avoidable.

Ultimately, going in to the water was a decision that cost this person their life. That's terrible.

Fre3dombear said:

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ShooterTX said:

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OsoCoreyell said:

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Amal Shuq-Up said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Amal Shuq-Up said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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I couldnt listen to cries for help and not help.

---

It is a shame you were not there. The world would be a better place because of your heroic efforts.

---

I dont think it made much difference if the guy lived or not. Certainly not to the posters on this forum. I could not stand and listen to a man cry for help as he died. Just the way I was raised. I understand not everyone is the same.

---

I hope if you are ever confronted with a similar situation that you will not jump in a river after a grown man. Trying to rescue the drowning is very dangerous.

---

Very. Takes special training. As a lifeguard, I swam out after a kid who broke his leg. Me and another lifeguard did the "dummy in the front" routine where you distract the drowning person with someone swimming right at them and the real rescuer comes up from behind them. I was the "dummy" and got too close. 120 lb kid with a broken leg KO'd me trying to climb on top of me. I had to be rescued. Scary stuff.

---

exactly.

I worked for a few summers as a lifeguard. I rescued about 11 kids and only 2 adults. Back then I was playing LB in high school. I was 5' 11 and 190lbs, in excellent shape. Both rescues of adults nearly cost me my life. Thankfully both of those were in diving pools, instead of lakes or big rivers. The largest person I rescued was a woman who was in her 40s. She probably weighed around 170lbs, and she dang near killed me. I doubt I would have made it in a body of water similar to that lake in the video. I did rescue a 100lb kid out of a large lake. Thankfully I was large enough to grab him and hold him steady. He fought me, but had no chance to break free or swing around on me. After a few seconds, I was able to calm him down for the rest of the swim back to the dock.

The guy in that video was very large, and he got pretty far away from the shoreline. If the average person jumped in to try and rescue him, they would be dead right now. He had already demonstrated that he was out of his mind, so there is no chance that he would have reacted rationally or obeyed any commands... it would have just added to the body count.

---

Maybe they could have tazed him? Anyone with any swimming knows you can't just swim up on someone literally drowning and save them. You have less than a 50/50 shot of surviving if that person is bigger and stronger than you

Throw them a rope? Sure. A flotation device? Sure. Multiple people to pull your in? Sure.

1 on 1? No way. Suicide mission

---

there were three officers watching this man die

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Are there people confused about what cops job description is? They're not generally water rescue experts. I mean if my car needs an oil change can
I be outraged if the cops don't change it for me?

---

Silly

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Fre3dombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

OsoCoreyell said:

---

Amal Shuq-Up said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Amal Shuq-Up said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I couldnt listen to cries for help and not help.

---

It is a shame you were not there. The world would be a better place because of your heroic efforts.

---

I dont think it made much difference if the guy lived or not. Certainly not to the posters on this forum. I could not stand and listen to a man cry for help as he died. Just the way I was raised. I understand not everyone is the same.

---

I hope if you are ever confronted with a similar situation that you will not jump in a river after a grown man. Trying to rescue the drowning is very dangerous.

---

Very. Takes special training. As a lifeguard, I swam out after a kid who broke his leg. Me and another lifeguard did the "dummy in the front" routine where you distract the drowning person with someone swimming right at them and the real rescuer comes up from behind them. I was the "dummy" and got too close. 120 lb kid with a broken leg KO'd me trying to climb on top of me. I had to be rescued. Scary stuff.

---

exactly.

I worked for a few summers as a lifeguard. I rescued about 11 kids and only 2 adults. Back then I was playing LB in high school. I was 5' 11 and 190lbs, in excellent shape. Both rescues of adults nearly cost me my life. Thankfully both of those were in diving pools, instead of lakes or big rivers. The largest person I rescued was a woman who was in her 40s. She probably weighed around 170lbs, and she dang near killed me. I doubt I would have made it in a body of water similar to that lake in the video. I did rescue a 100lb kid out of a large lake. Thankfully I was large enough to grab him and hold him steady. He fought me, but had no chance to break free or swing around on me. After a few seconds, I was able to calm him down for the rest of the swim back to the dock.

The guy in that video was very large, and he got pretty far away from the shoreline. If the average person jumped in to try and rescue him, they would be dead right now. He had already demonstrated that he was out of his mind, so there is no chance that he would have reacted rationally or obeyed any commands... it would have just added to the body count.

---

Maybe they could have tazed him? Anyone with any swimming knows you can't just swim up on someone literally drowning and save them. You have less than a 50/50 shot of surviving if that person is bigger and stronger than you

Throw them a rope? Sure. A flotation device? Sure. Multiple people to pull your in? Sure.

1 on 1? No way. Suicide mission

---

there were three officers watching this man die

---

And not a one of them had an obligation to go try to be the second to drown.

Could you and two of your buddies stand by and a man drown?

Never mind. I guess you could.

nein51 said:

---

I used to service approx 300 police interceptors. Everything in a cruiser is accounted for. There is no "junk" in a one. The back seat is formed in almost every case so there is nothing back there. The front seat will have a radio setup, a laptop mount couple other electronics and, typically, a shotgun mount (though that has become harder to do since the discontinuation of the Crown Vic models). The Explorer based units almost all have a shotgun mount in them. The trunk will be based on usage but in almost every instance there is a bolted in safe, a number of rifle/shotgun mounts, a long gun and a first aid kit. Most patrol units have a go bag that varies from department to department.

I've never seen rope, bats, life preservers in any cruiser and I did a large city, several municipalities and the Ohio State Patrol. To the point I had a master key (they are keyed alike) and my own entry access code to the lot for the county seat.

I take no issue with them not entering the water. I've seen a pretty good chunk of the video. My issue is the callous nature they handled the situation and the fact that they probably didn't take him seriously until the threat was too great. Now there is no way of knowing that would happen. Getting the water to go after him is likely a non starter and I'm not sure they did anything wrong; per se. However, I don't love that interaction and I think this was probably avoidable.

Ultimately, going in to the water was a decision that cost this person their life. That's terrible.

---

Wow great insight. Thanks! I wouldn't know if they had rope etc but thought it possible. It's a very sad outcome.

This is similar to what got Seinfeld thrown in prison in episode 180

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Could you and two of your buddies stand by and a man drown?

Never mind. I guess you could.

---

I agree I personally would have tried to do something more than what we see on the video which is admittedly edited to not show the most important part so who knows what they tried to do after it ends.

Imagine if these popo had been defunded by the Mulecrats sooner! We wouldn't even have this video to see and discuss.

When do we put him on the $100 bill?

George Floyd II: Electric Bugaloo.

A Border Agent recently drowned trying to save a criminal coming over illegally from Mexico. The Officers told this guy not to go swimming. He did anyway, at his own risk.