FoxNews and WashTimes analyst: Why Donald Trump will soon be indicted

2,282 Views | 25 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by TexasScientist
Dnicknames
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Cliff notes from Judge Andrew Napolitano:
- Trump is soon to be indicted for three crimes
- Document classification is irrelevant
- Trump defeats himself by committing mortal sins in the criminal defense world (ie-wounds are self inflicted)
- Trump now has nothing to stand on, and the author can't think of a legally viable defense

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/aug/31/why-donald-trump-will-soon-be-indicted/

"It gives me no joy to write this piece.

Even a cursory review of the redacted version of the affidavit submitted in support of the government's application for a search warrant at the home of former President Donald Trump reveals that he will soon be indicted by a federal grand jury for three crimes: Removing and concealing national defense information (NDI), giving NDI to those not legally entitled to possess it, and obstruction of justice by failing to return NDI to those who are legally entitled to retrieve it.

When he learned from a phone call that 30 FBI agents were at the front door of his Florida residence with a search warrant and he decided to reveal this publicly, Mr. Trump assumed that the agents were looking for classified top-secret materials that they'd allege he criminally possessed. His assumptions were apparently based on his gut instinct and not on a sophisticated analysis of the law. Hence, his public boast that he declassified all the formerly classified documents he took with him.

Unbeknownst to him, the feds had anticipated such a defense and are not preparing to indict him for possessing classified materials, even though he did possess hundreds of voluntarily surrendered materials marked "top secret." It is irrelevant if the documents were declassified, as the feds will charge crimes that do not require proof of classification. They told the federal judge who signed the search warrant that Mr. Trump still had NDI in his home. It appears they were correct.

Under the law, it doesn't matter if the documents on which NDI is contained are classified or not, as it is simply and always criminal to have NDI in a non-federal facility, to have those without security clearances move it from one place to another, and to keep it from the feds when they are seeking it. Stated differently, the absence of classification for whatever reason is not a defense to the charges that are likely to be filed against Mr. Trump.

Yet, misreading and underestimating the feds, Mr. Trump actually did them a favor. One of the elements that they must prove for any of the three crimes is that Mr. Trump knew that he had the documents. The favor he did was admit to that when he boasted that they were no longer classified. He committed a mortal sin in the criminal defense world by denying something for which he had not been accused.

The second element that the feds must prove is that the documents actually do contain national defense information. And the third element they must prove is that Mr. Trump put these documents into the hands of those not authorized to hold them and stored them in a non-federally secured place. Intelligence community experts have already examined the documents taken from Mr. Trump's home and are prepared to tell a jury that they contain the names of foreign agents secretly working for the U.S. This is the crown jewel of government secrets. Moreover, Mr. Trump's Florida home is not a secure federal facility designated for the deposit of NDI.

The newest aspect of the case against Mr. Trump that we learned from the redacted affidavit is the obstruction allegation. This is not the obstruction that Robert Mueller claimed he found Mr. Trump committed during the Russia investigation. This is a newer obstruction statute, signed by President George W. Bush in 2002, that places far fewer burdens on the feds to prove. The older statute is the one Mr. Mueller alleged. It characterizes any material interference with a judicial function as criminal. Thus, one who lies to a grand jury or prevents a witness from testifying commits this variant of obstruction.

But the Bush-era statute, the one the feds contemplate charging Mr. Trump with having violated, makes it a crime of obstruction by failing to return government property or by sending the FBI on a wild goose chase looking for something that belongs to the government and that you know that you have. This statute does not require the preexistence of a judicial proceeding. It only requires that the defendant has the government's property, knows that he has it and baselessly resists efforts by the government to get it back.

Where does all this leave Mr. Trump? The short answer is: In hot water. The longer answer is: He is confronting yet again the federal law enforcement and intelligence communities for which he has rightly expressed such public disdain. He had valid points of expression during the Russia investigation. He has little ground upon which to stand today.

I have often argued that many of these statutes that the feds have enacted to protect themselves are morally unjust and not grounded in the Constitution. One of my intellectual heroes, the great Murray Rothbard, taught that the government protects itself far more aggressively than it protects our natural rights.

In a monumental irony, both Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks journalist who exposed American war crimes during the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, and Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency employee who exposed criminal mass government surveillance upon the American public, stand charged with the very same crimes that are likely to be brought against Mr. Trump. On both Mr. Assange and Mr. Snowden, Mr. Trump argued that they should be executed. Fortunately for all three, these statutes do not provide for capital punishment.

Mr. Rothbard warned that the feds aggressively protect themselves. Yet, both Mr. Assange and Mr. Snowden are heroic defenders of liberty with valid moral and legal defenses. Mr. Assange is protected by the Pentagon Papers case, which insulates the media from criminal or civil liability for revealing stolen matters of interest to the public, so long as the revealer is not the thief. Mr. Snowden is protected by the Constitution, which expressly prohibits the warrantless surveillance he revealed, which was the most massive peacetime abuse of government power.

What will Mr. Trump say in his defense to taking national defense information?

I cannot think of a legally viable one."
C. Jordan
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Good presentation of the facts and supports what I've been telling so many of you for weeks: It doesn't matter if Trump claims he declassified the docs.

I disagree with the judge's anti-govt. rant, but he's right on the facts and the law.

I would also add that we've not seen the most damning parts: All the witness testimony was redacted from the affidavit that was released.

I'm curious why Trump had all this stuff. Especially why he had those docs in his desk drawer. Was he shaking people down? Was he trying to make money off the info?

And why not just turn the info over to begin with? I know it was disorganized. He had the documents mixed in with various memorabilia, Time magazine covers, and issues of "Hustler's Barely Legal". But why did he have this stuff?

There's much more to come on this.
Dnicknames
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He wasn't using it to write his memoirs…

My perception is you hold back SCI top secret docs after a subpoena either as (1) payback to the Americans that rejected him to leverage against those that would challenge him, or (2) to monetize them.

The outline of clear obstruction is damning.
C. Jordan
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So now in yesterday's filing, he's admitted the docs were classified, but it was okay to have them. So he's abandoning the absurd idea that he declassified them in his head and admitting that under the law he's dealing with, it doesn't matter.
Dnicknames
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The most entertaining part of this whole saga to me?

Trump knew where the TS/SCI documents were hidden that he did not have - the docs were removed from his "cartons" - and he outed himself on TS for no reason. His poor attorney has her neck on the chopping block now for obstruction.

Ooops
Mothra
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Trump is once again his own worst enemy, choosing a ridiculous hill to die on instead of doing the right thing and turning over these documents (or better yet, not taking them in the first place). He just can't help himself.

However, there's zero chance he's indicted by the feds, IMO. I will believe it when I see it.
Canada2017
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Mothra said:



However, there's zero chance he's indicted by the feds, IMO. I will believe it when I see it.
Rare when we disagree ...but we certainly do here.

Biden has to indict Trump...if only to prevent the DOJ and FBI from looking like fools .....and ( most importantly ) keeping the nation's focus on Trump instead of crime/inflation/ and millions of illegal aliens .
Mothra
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Canada2017 said:

Mothra said:



However, there's zero chance he's indicted by the feds, IMO. I will believe it when I see it.
Rare when we disagree ...but we certainly do here.

Biden has to indict Trump...if only to prevent the DOJ and FBI from looking like fools .....and ( most importantly ) keeping the nation's focus on Trump instead of crime/inflation/ and millions of illegal aliens .
I could be wrong in thinking he will go that far, but given the reluctance Garland has shown so far, I think he knows the **** storm that would ensue, and the calls of banana republic. It would give the Republicans a big boost, IMO. Just don't think it would happen, though it would certainly be interesting (and entertaining) if it did. There would be a lot of political fallout which I think would hurt the dems.
Sam Lowry
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I agree that they probably could charge him, but I don't think they will unless he was planning to do something really atrocious with the documents. It has to be more than a technical violation.
Booray
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Canada2017 said:

Mothra said:



However, there's zero chance he's indicted by the feds, IMO. I will believe it when I see it.
Rare when we disagree ...but we certainly do here.

Biden has to indict Trump...if only to prevent the DOJ and FBI from looking like fools .....and ( most importantly ) keeping the nation's focus on Trump instead of crime/inflation/ and millions of illegal aliens .
You want Trump indicted to further your fantasy about the end of America.

Garland likely will say-we got the docs back, if you give up your claim to them we won't indict. Trump will then run around sayinhg he was vindicated.
BearFan33
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I'm hearing on some broadcasts the idea that they got the goods on Trump but DOJ may not prosecute because they are concerned about putting the country through that. The seems to be the latest talking points from the DNC.

That tells me they don't have the goods on him. Since when have they been concerned about "putting the country through that?"
LateSteak69
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Don't think they will indict, but the stupid sum***** cannot run for president again. He makes Dark Brandon look like Mensa.
Canada2017
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Booray said:

Canada2017 said:

Mothra said:



However, there's zero chance he's indicted by the feds, IMO. I will believe it when I see it.
Rare when we disagree ...but we certainly do here.

Biden has to indict Trump...if only to prevent the DOJ and FBI from looking like fools .....and ( most importantly ) keeping the nation's focus on Trump instead of crime/inflation/ and millions of illegal aliens .
You want Trump indicted to further your fantasy about the end of America.

Garland likely will say-we got the docs back, if you give up your claim to them we won't indict. Trump will then run around sayinhg he was vindicated.
Ridiculous

Don't want any ex president's home raided much less indicted on charges that would never be initiated by, or prosecuted against , members of the same political party .

Your fantasy is to alter the traditional culture of the US into something that suites your hatreds.....consequences be damned.

Canada2017
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Mothra said:

Canada2017 said:

Mothra said:



However, there's zero chance he's indicted by the feds, IMO. I will believe it when I see it.
Rare when we disagree ...but we certainly do here.

Biden has to indict Trump...if only to prevent the DOJ and FBI from looking like fools .....and ( most importantly ) keeping the nation's focus on Trump instead of crime/inflation/ and millions of illegal aliens .
I could be wrong in thinking he will go that far, but given the reluctance Garland has shown so far, I think he knows the **** storm that would ensue, and the calls of banana republic. It would give the Republicans a big boost, IMO. Just don't think it would happen, though it would certainly be interesting (and entertaining) if it did. There would be a lot of political fallout which I think would hurt the dems.
Dems are too smart to let Trump disappear .

He's their best fund raiser.
Booray
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BearFan33 said:

I'm hearing on some broadcasts the idea that they got the goods on Trump but DOJ may not prosecute because they are concerned about putting the country through that. The seems to be the latest talking points from the DNC.

That tells me they don't have the goods on him. Since when have they been concerned about "putting the country through that?"
So if they prosecute him, its a political witchhunt. If they don't he is vindicated.

The man obviously took property that belonged to the people of the United States under the law. He was asked to give it back and he would not. It turns out some of what he took was sensitive information that could be damaging if leaked.

What are we supposed to do about that? Interested to hear from all the conservatives how they think this should have been handled.

BearFan33
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Booray said:

BearFan33 said:

I'm hearing on some broadcasts the idea that they got the goods on Trump but DOJ may not prosecute because they are concerned about putting the country through that. The seems to be the latest talking points from the DNC.

That tells me they don't have the goods on him. Since when have they been concerned about "putting the country through that?"
So if they prosecute him, its a political witchhunt. If they don't he is vindicated.

The man obviously took proerty that belonged to the people of the United States under the law. He was asked to give it back and he would not. It turns out some of what he took was sensitive information that could be damaging if leaked.

What are we supposed to do about that? Interested to hear from all the conservatives how they think this should have been handled.


I would expect them to prosecute if they have a decent chance of a conviction. Democrats have not indicated any concern for the country's mood or unification.

I think Trump and everyone in his orbit have been investigated like no other American in history with only modest results. I think if you were to put any high profile DC politician (of either side) thru the same ringer you would get modest to dramatic results. The lot of them are likely corrupt to some extent.

I would like strict enforcement of all laws (especially anti-corruption laws) against ALL politicians. And that's the rub. One side has absolutely no fear of prosecution. Jim Comey's FBI bringing Hillary in for milk and cookies and an "interview" that was not under oath is not the same as a raid of one's residence (and Hillary was never POTUS).

I do expect Trump to spin whatever happens and who could blame him after the Russia collusion hoax, 2 failed impeachments and now the Jan 6 fiasco. If Trump has to go to jail for corruption so be it. But I want every subsequent politician to be put under the same microscope starting with Bidens. We all know that is not going to happen.
Sam Lowry
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BearFan33 said:

Booray said:

BearFan33 said:

I'm hearing on some broadcasts the idea that they got the goods on Trump but DOJ may not prosecute because they are concerned about putting the country through that. The seems to be the latest talking points from the DNC.

That tells me they don't have the goods on him. Since when have they been concerned about "putting the country through that?"
So if they prosecute him, its a political witchhunt. If they don't he is vindicated.

The man obviously took proerty that belonged to the people of the United States under the law. He was asked to give it back and he would not. It turns out some of what he took was sensitive information that could be damaging if leaked.

What are we supposed to do about that? Interested to hear from all the conservatives how they think this should have been handled.


I would like strict enforcement of all laws (especially anti-corruption laws) against ALL politicians. And that's the rub. One side has absolutely no fear of prosecution. Jim Comey's FBI bringing Hillary in for milk and cookies and an "interview" that was not under oath is not the same as a raid of one's residence (and Hillary was never POTUS).
With Trump they ran out of cookies (and for their trouble got accused of dragging their feet).
Porteroso
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BearFan33 said:

I'm hearing on some broadcasts the idea that they got the goods on Trump but DOJ may not prosecute because they are concerned about putting the country through that. The seems to be the latest talking points from the DNC.

That tells me they don't have the goods on him. Since when have they been concerned about "putting the country through that?"

I'm sure you're not alone. If he's not indicted, many will assume that means he did nothing wrong.

Anyone who ever glanced at a Tom Clancy book can tell you he did somethimg wrong, but I'm not about to accuse the whole country of looking at books.
4th and Inches
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Dnicknames said:

The most entertaining part of this whole saga to me?

Trump knew where the TS/SCI documents were hidden that he did not have - the docs were removed from his "cartons" - and he outed himself on TS for no reason. His poor attorney has her neck on the chopping block now for obstruction.

Ooops

lol, nope.. his atty is cool

DOJ screwed the pooch, rookie mistake and you guys are all over it.

The subpoena wasnt made out to Trump. If Trump had stuff stored personally, The custodian of record could have returned a sworn affidavit that all was sent back in custodial possession and be ok legally.

They messed up by not serving Trump and the custodian of records at the entity.

Trump still has to figure his sh.. out but the atty is not in trouble other than financially
“The Internet is just a world passing around notes in a classroom.”

Jon Stewart
whiterock
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Dnicknames said:

Cliff notes from Judge Andrew Napolitano:
- Trump is soon to be indicted for three crimes
- Document classification is irrelevant
- Trump defeats himself by committing mortal sins in the criminal defense world (ie-wounds are self inflicted)
- Trump now has nothing to stand on, and the author can't think of a legally viable defense

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/aug/31/why-donald-trump-will-soon-be-indicted/

"It gives me no joy to write this piece.

Even a cursory review of the redacted version of the affidavit submitted in support of the government's application for a search warrant at the home of former President Donald Trump reveals that he will soon be indicted by a federal grand jury for three crimes: Removing and concealing national defense information (NDI), giving NDI to those not legally entitled to possess it, and obstruction of justice by failing to return NDI to those who are legally entitled to retrieve it.

When he learned from a phone call that 30 FBI agents were at the front door of his Florida residence with a search warrant and he decided to reveal this publicly, Mr. Trump assumed that the agents were looking for classified top-secret materials that they'd allege he criminally possessed. His assumptions were apparently based on his gut instinct and not on a sophisticated analysis of the law. Hence, his public boast that he declassified all the formerly classified documents he took with him.

Unbeknownst to him, the feds had anticipated such a defense and are not preparing to indict him for possessing classified materials, even though he did possess hundreds of voluntarily surrendered materials marked "top secret." It is irrelevant if the documents were declassified, as the feds will charge crimes that do not require proof of classification. They told the federal judge who signed the search warrant that Mr. Trump still had NDI in his home. It appears they were correct.

Under the law, it doesn't matter if the documents on which NDI is contained are classified or not, as it is simply and always criminal to have NDI in a non-federal facility, to have those without security clearances move it from one place to another, and to keep it from the feds when they are seeking it. Stated differently, the absence of classification for whatever reason is not a defense to the charges that are likely to be filed against Mr. Trump.

Yet, misreading and underestimating the feds, Mr. Trump actually did them a favor. One of the elements that they must prove for any of the three crimes is that Mr. Trump knew that he had the documents. The favor he did was admit to that when he boasted that they were no longer classified. He committed a mortal sin in the criminal defense world by denying something for which he had not been accused.

The second element that the feds must prove is that the documents actually do contain national defense information. And the third element they must prove is that Mr. Trump put these documents into the hands of those not authorized to hold them and stored them in a non-federally secured place. Intelligence community experts have already examined the documents taken from Mr. Trump's home and are prepared to tell a jury that they contain the names of foreign agents secretly working for the U.S. This is the crown jewel of government secrets. Moreover, Mr. Trump's Florida home is not a secure federal facility designated for the deposit of NDI.

The newest aspect of the case against Mr. Trump that we learned from the redacted affidavit is the obstruction allegation. This is not the obstruction that Robert Mueller claimed he found Mr. Trump committed during the Russia investigation. This is a newer obstruction statute, signed by President George W. Bush in 2002, that places far fewer burdens on the feds to prove. The older statute is the one Mr. Mueller alleged. It characterizes any material interference with a judicial function as criminal. Thus, one who lies to a grand jury or prevents a witness from testifying commits this variant of obstruction.

But the Bush-era statute, the one the feds contemplate charging Mr. Trump with having violated, makes it a crime of obstruction by failing to return government property or by sending the FBI on a wild goose chase looking for something that belongs to the government and that you know that you have. This statute does not require the preexistence of a judicial proceeding. It only requires that the defendant has the government's property, knows that he has it and baselessly resists efforts by the government to get it back.

Where does all this leave Mr. Trump? The short answer is: In hot water. The longer answer is: He is confronting yet again the federal law enforcement and intelligence communities for which he has rightly expressed such public disdain. He had valid points of expression during the Russia investigation. He has little ground upon which to stand today.

I have often argued that many of these statutes that the feds have enacted to protect themselves are morally unjust and not grounded in the Constitution. One of my intellectual heroes, the great Murray Rothbard, taught that the government protects itself far more aggressively than it protects our natural rights.

In a monumental irony, both Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks journalist who exposed American war crimes during the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, and Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency employee who exposed criminal mass government surveillance upon the American public, stand charged with the very same crimes that are likely to be brought against Mr. Trump. On both Mr. Assange and Mr. Snowden, Mr. Trump argued that they should be executed. Fortunately for all three, these statutes do not provide for capital punishment.

Mr. Rothbard warned that the feds aggressively protect themselves. Yet, both Mr. Assange and Mr. Snowden are heroic defenders of liberty with valid moral and legal defenses. Mr. Assange is protected by the Pentagon Papers case, which insulates the media from criminal or civil liability for revealing stolen matters of interest to the public, so long as the revealer is not the thief. Mr. Snowden is protected by the Constitution, which expressly prohibits the warrantless surveillance he revealed, which was the most massive peacetime abuse of government power.

What will Mr. Trump say in his defense to taking national defense information?

I cannot think of a legally viable one."
The part in bold is industrial grade bull****.

Intelligence reports (disseminated raw field reports) do not contain the names of intelligence sources. Never. Ever. Report writing 101 in basic training, first lesson after format is how to accurately relay facts, statements, context, etc.....without EVER mentioning the name of your source. you can't invent facts or people, but you can leave out facts or people to protect the source. Not done. never done. Never. Ever. Not only is the name of the source never mentioned in the report, great care is taken not to allow the information or its context imply who the source is or might be. Same for finished intelligence assessments containing raw human source reporting. Not one has ever mentioned the name of a source. Indeed, all humint used in finished intelligence is coordinated with (relevant people) (the job my spouse did, btw) to ensure that it is properly used.

I could go on in great detail on this, but sources & methods. Suffice to say, no communication from a field station, operational (in-house, for the file details) or intelligence (disseminated widely), will ever mention the true name of a clandestine human source. Not done. Ever. No reviewing officer (Deputy Chief) or releasing officer (COS) would allow it to happen. Fireable offense. Even the operational file at Hqs does not contain the true name of the asset. Why set up an operation and give the agent a code name if you are going to splash his true name throughout the file?>?>?>?>?

I cannot speak with authority on how FBI handles reporting from its human sources. Are we to believe that, given the painstaking care with which CIA treats the matter, that FBI splashes names of sources all throughout intelligence reports given to policymakers? If think we all know the answer to that one, but if we do find out such is the case, then we really do need to clean house at FBI. Stop & start over time.

The person who leaked this story to Judge Nappy is having quite a laugh at the Judge's expense right now.
Dnicknames
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Do you think Scooter Libby would agree?

Perhaps Robert Hanssen leaking Dmitri Polyakov's name from a SCI file was fake news?

Can not tell if your post was serious or not???

Fre3dombear
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Mothra said:

Canada2017 said:

Mothra said:



However, there's zero chance he's indicted by the feds, IMO. I will believe it when I see it.
Rare when we disagree ...but we certainly do here.

Biden has to indict Trump...if only to prevent the DOJ and FBI from looking like fools .....and ( most importantly ) keeping the nation's focus on Trump instead of crime/inflation/ and millions of illegal aliens .
I could be wrong in thinking he will go that far, but given the reluctance Garland has shown so far, I think he knows the **** storm that would ensue, and the calls of banana republic. It would give the Republicans a big boost, IMO. Just don't think it would happen, though it would certainly be interesting (and entertaining) if it did. There would be a lot of political fallout which I think would hurt the dems.


If in the next 3 weeks, s&p breaks below 3667, Trump will be indicted and someone special will be murdered by cops
whiterock
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Dnicknames said:

Do you think Scooter Libby would agree?

Perhaps Robert Hanssen leaking Dmitri Polyakov's name from a SCI file was fake news?

Can not tell if your post was serious or not???


Glad you mentioned Scooter Libby. He allegedly revealed the agency affiliation of Valerie Plame. Only he didn't do it. A state dept official did. That's why he was not prosecuted for the leak. He was prosecuted for process crimes, perjury and obstruction..... It was a highly politicized prosecution, exactly the kind of problem we see ongoing today. A man prosecuted for something the prosecutor knew from the earliest phases of the investigation Libby did not do. But the prosecution went forward anyway. Because he was a Republican. Cheney....that same Cheney the neverTrumpers here lauded a few weeks ago as a hero for fighting the Trump movement....strenuously lobbied for a pardon. Bush commuted the sentence. Trump finally did the right thing and pardoned Libby. Thank you for reminding us of the partisan bias at DOJ.

Thank you for mentioning Hanssen, who was a controlled reporting source for Russia. An operations officer does know the true names of the assets he handles. And if he reports that to a foreign power, he commits espionage. That is what Hanssen did. He allowed himself to be recruited as a controlled source of the intelligence service of a foreign power. But that is not the scenario alleged here, not remotely. Judge Nappy stated that the documents in question contain the "holiest of holies," the names of the sources. That is BS. Neither intelligence reports nor finished intelligence identify the true identity of assets. Such is patently silly...we erect a massive structure of secure worldwide communications, secure facilities, cover platforms for agents, massive rooms full of files of codenamed operations, entire cadres of careeerists to do nothing but protect information and sources during distribution of intelligence, etc....at the expense of billions of dollars, then identify the true name of the source in the intelligence sources produce? An absolutely preposterous notion. Neither are the true names of agents identified in operational files which document the nuts & bolts of times, dates, places, circumstances, etc...of meetings with the assets. Again, patently absurd to lay on so many levels of protection and then....boom...there it is. The true name of an asset in the same file as his codename? Does. Not. Happen.

What Judge Nappy reported is simply not possible.

But you have another Orange Man Bad popsickle to suck on. So enjoy it.
TexasScientist
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whiterock said:

Dnicknames said:

Do you think Scooter Libby would agree?

Perhaps Robert Hanssen leaking Dmitri Polyakov's name from a SCI file was fake news?

Can not tell if your post was serious or not???


Glad you mentioned Scooter Libby. He allegedly revealed the agency affiliation of Valerie Plame. Only he didn't do it. A state dept official did. That's why he was not prosecuted for the leak. He was prosecuted for process crimes, perjury and obstruction..... It was a highly politicized prosecution, exactly the kind of problem we see ongoing today. A man prosecuted for something the prosecutor knew from the earliest phases of the investigation Libby did not do. But the prosecution went forward anyway. Because he was a Republican. Cheney....that same Cheney the neverTrumpers here lauded a few weeks ago as a hero for fighting the Trump movement....strenuously lobbied for a pardon. Bush commuted the sentence. Trump finally did the right thing and pardoned Libby. Thank you for reminding us of the partisan bias at DOJ.

Thank you for mentioning Hanssen, who was a controlled reporting source for Russia. An operations officer does know the true names of the assets he handles. And if he reports that to a foreign power, he commits espionage. That is what Hanssen did. He allowed himself to be recruited as a controlled source of the intelligence service of a foreign power. But that is not the scenario alleged here, not remotely. Judge Nappy stated that the documents in question contain the "holiest of holies," the names of the sources. That is BS. Neither intelligence reports nor finished intelligence identify the true identity of assets. Such is patently silly...we erect a massive structure of secure worldwide communications, secure facilities, cover platforms for agents, massive rooms full of files of codenamed operations, entire cadres of careeerists to do nothing but protect information and sources during distribution of intelligence, etc....at the expense of billions of dollars, then identify the true name of the source in the intelligence sources produce? An absolutely preposterous notion. Neither are the true names of agents identified in operational files which document the nuts & bolts of times, dates, places, circumstances, etc...of meetings with the assets. Again, patently absurd to lay on so many levels of protection and then....boom...there it is. The true name of an asset in the same file as his codename? Does. Not. Happen.

What Judge Nappy reported is simply not possible.

But you have another Orange Man Bad popsickle to suck on. So enjoy it.

Whether Napolitoan is right or wrong on the content containing names is irrelavent, to the legal implications for Trump possessing the documents, and refusing to hand them over.
whiterock
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TexasScientist said:

whiterock said:

Dnicknames said:

Do you think Scooter Libby would agree?

Perhaps Robert Hanssen leaking Dmitri Polyakov's name from a SCI file was fake news?

Can not tell if your post was serious or not???


Glad you mentioned Scooter Libby. He allegedly revealed the agency affiliation of Valerie Plame. Only he didn't do it. A state dept official did. That's why he was not prosecuted for the leak. He was prosecuted for process crimes, perjury and obstruction..... It was a highly politicized prosecution, exactly the kind of problem we see ongoing today. A man prosecuted for something the prosecutor knew from the earliest phases of the investigation Libby did not do. But the prosecution went forward anyway. Because he was a Republican. Cheney....that same Cheney the neverTrumpers here lauded a few weeks ago as a hero for fighting the Trump movement....strenuously lobbied for a pardon. Bush commuted the sentence. Trump finally did the right thing and pardoned Libby. Thank you for reminding us of the partisan bias at DOJ.

Thank you for mentioning Hanssen, who was a controlled reporting source for Russia. An operations officer does know the true names of the assets he handles. And if he reports that to a foreign power, he commits espionage. That is what Hanssen did. He allowed himself to be recruited as a controlled source of the intelligence service of a foreign power. But that is not the scenario alleged here, not remotely. Judge Nappy stated that the documents in question contain the "holiest of holies," the names of the sources. That is BS. Neither intelligence reports nor finished intelligence identify the true identity of assets. Such is patently silly...we erect a massive structure of secure worldwide communications, secure facilities, cover platforms for agents, massive rooms full of files of codenamed operations, entire cadres of careeerists to do nothing but protect information and sources during distribution of intelligence, etc....at the expense of billions of dollars, then identify the true name of the source in the intelligence sources produce? An absolutely preposterous notion. Neither are the true names of agents identified in operational files which document the nuts & bolts of times, dates, places, circumstances, etc...of meetings with the assets. Again, patently absurd to lay on so many levels of protection and then....boom...there it is. The true name of an asset in the same file as his codename? Does. Not. Happen.

What Judge Nappy reported is simply not possible.

But you have another Orange Man Bad popsickle to suck on. So enjoy it.

Whether Napolitoan is right or wrong on the content containing names is irrelavent, to the legal implications for Trump possessing the documents, and refusing to hand them over.
It's not irrelevant. It's instructive. It shows the amount of spin going on.
TexasScientist
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

TexasScientist said:

whiterock said:

Dnicknames said:

Do you think Scooter Libby would agree?

Perhaps Robert Hanssen leaking Dmitri Polyakov's name from a SCI file was fake news?

Can not tell if your post was serious or not???


Glad you mentioned Scooter Libby. He allegedly revealed the agency affiliation of Valerie Plame. Only he didn't do it. A state dept official did. That's why he was not prosecuted for the leak. He was prosecuted for process crimes, perjury and obstruction..... It was a highly politicized prosecution, exactly the kind of problem we see ongoing today. A man prosecuted for something the prosecutor knew from the earliest phases of the investigation Libby did not do. But the prosecution went forward anyway. Because he was a Republican. Cheney....that same Cheney the neverTrumpers here lauded a few weeks ago as a hero for fighting the Trump movement....strenuously lobbied for a pardon. Bush commuted the sentence. Trump finally did the right thing and pardoned Libby. Thank you for reminding us of the partisan bias at DOJ.

Thank you for mentioning Hanssen, who was a controlled reporting source for Russia. An operations officer does know the true names of the assets he handles. And if he reports that to a foreign power, he commits espionage. That is what Hanssen did. He allowed himself to be recruited as a controlled source of the intelligence service of a foreign power. But that is not the scenario alleged here, not remotely. Judge Nappy stated that the documents in question contain the "holiest of holies," the names of the sources. That is BS. Neither intelligence reports nor finished intelligence identify the true identity of assets. Such is patently silly...we erect a massive structure of secure worldwide communications, secure facilities, cover platforms for agents, massive rooms full of files of codenamed operations, entire cadres of careeerists to do nothing but protect information and sources during distribution of intelligence, etc....at the expense of billions of dollars, then identify the true name of the source in the intelligence sources produce? An absolutely preposterous notion. Neither are the true names of agents identified in operational files which document the nuts & bolts of times, dates, places, circumstances, etc...of meetings with the assets. Again, patently absurd to lay on so many levels of protection and then....boom...there it is. The true name of an asset in the same file as his codename? Does. Not. Happen.

What Judge Nappy reported is simply not possible.

But you have another Orange Man Bad popsickle to suck on. So enjoy it.

Whether Napolitoan is right or wrong on the content containing names is irrelavent, to the legal implications for Trump possessing the documents, and refusing to hand them over.
It's not irrelevant. It's instructive. It shows the amount of spin going on.
I agree, there is a lot of spin going on. Best to ignore the spin and focus on the facts.
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