Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Mothra said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Mothra said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Mothra said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Mothra said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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My grandparents hated Elvis and was sure watching him would lead to ruin. My mother hated my Alice Cooper and Led Zeppelin albums. After a travelling preacher came through and claimed Satan was putting backward messages to lure us to hell, she burned my Deep Purple. EL & P and Alice Cooper records. I hate the crap my youngest son listened to as a teen.

Theres nothing new under the sun but each generation hates the more modern choices.

Of course anyone that doesnt agree with you must be a fool.

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So because your grandparents were wrong that Elvis was of the devil, there's nothing at all wrong with pretending you're Satan and having demons perform lewd acts on you for the world to see.

There's that swell LIQR logic we all know and love. I knew you wouldn't disappoint. I am sure Jesus would approve of your luke-warm approach to life. Way to stand up for the kingdom and your purported faith!

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You have teenage boys I think. Do they listen to Pat Boone nowadays? A prom with only music approved by the local Baptist church?

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So because back in the day parents thought it was bad for their kids to listen to Pat Boone, letting the kids watch Satan worship - whether mock or real - is cool? As a parent, I'm just a fuddy duddy making a big deal out of nothing?

I must say, your laissez faire approach to everything in life is truly fascinating. It seems nothing is off limits for you. I am curious, where is it as a parent and Christian you draw the line? Or do you even have one? Cool for your kids to watch porn? Is getting worked up over that me being a prude? Or maybe watching an orgy? How about gay sex? Or is it just that you wouldn't have your kids watch it, but to each his own? Clearly, Satan worship is no big deal, correct? Are you ok with your kids watching it? How about engaging in it? Do you believe it's ever appropriate to speak up for right and wrong, even against things that might not personally affect you? Let's say you knew a man was sexually abusing a child. Not your place to speak up? Is that, in your opinion, judging others?

I would be curious about your interpretation of these verses:

Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. Ephesians 5:11

We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ, 2 Cor. 10:5.

Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, Ephesians 4:5.

Do these support your laissez faire approach to life?

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My kids are 39,40 and 45. When they were growing up we only had 1 tv so they watched what I watched. The wildest thing we watched was Beavis and Butthead. There was no porn in my house, or alcohol. I lead more by example than browbeating. I whipped my oldest twice, and my middle son about twice a week. As a single father I didnt whip my dsughter once she turned 13 and she drove me crazy. We went to the local Baptist church in whatever town I was working in. All three turned out to be healthy successful well educated adults, married once and 7 grandkids.

As to the verses you quoted, I take no parts in unfruitful works of darkness. With no TV I would not have known about the Grammies if not for the thread here I havent watched them in at least 20 years. So I guess I am a failure for not exposing them. By exposing them do you mean denouncing them on this board or do you take to the streets and rail against them at work? For the second verse I do argue Christianity to those that will listen. I have shared Christ all over the world to people that want to hear about it. In the UAE we met in rotating apartments. In China we met outdoors. Here in Alaska I attend a Catholic church,


Now I asked you a question and you ignored it and asked me twenty questions. What music do your kids listen to?

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LIQR, I am more interested in the answers to my questions than how you raised your kids back in the 80's. So let me first answer your irrelevant questions, and then I will re-ask the questions you failed to answer.

17-year-old son listens to a lot of classic rock/pop. I introduced him to my favorite bands and artists from the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's, and now that's what he listens to. He also has friends that like country, so there's some of that in the repertoire. And finally, he likes a lot of Christian artists and Christian praise and worship.

14-year-old likes some of the more benign hip hop and rap, much to my chagrin. Nothing with cussing or sexual innuendo, as we keep that away from him. We also turn on the parental filters that filter out the bad stuff. He likes Post Malone quite a bit, but can't listen to all of his songs. Also likes some of the modern day pop artists and some Christian pop.

10-year-old isn't interested in that kind of music yet.

As I suggested above, we don't shield our kids from the world, as that is also doing them a disservice, but we closely monitor the intake, because that's what parents do, LIQR (or are supposed to do), especially those that love their kids and call themselves Christian. Leading by example is fine and dandy, but since you are apparently out of touch with the modern world or more likely just don't care since it doesn't affect you personally, there is a lot of filth out there, and competing role models in our kids lives that have much greater access to our kids now days. I can live a model life, but friends at school and media in his life may not. That is why it's important not just to lead by example, but actually teach our kids what's right and wrong (what you would absurdly call "browbeating" I suppose), and help protect them - as much as you can - from being exposed to such filth, especially while they are young. It's why we have filters on TV, computers, etc. at our house. It's why we have software that monitors texts to friends. The less exposure they have to such filth, numerous studies have shown the lesser chance of them having issues and addictions later in life. Unfortunately, this isn't the 80's, LIQR, where we have one TV and a handful of stations, and you really have to seek such filth out to be exposed to it. To the contrary, today filth can be easily streamed into the home on a daily basis with the touch of a button, whether on the TV, computers or phones. Now simply turning on the TV to watch the Grammys can expose you to it. You have no clue how much more difficult it is to protect them than when you raised yours. As a child of the 80's, not much older than your kids, I can attest to that. We had to go to the record store or convenience store to get such stuff.

So let's pretend you are raising your kids today instead of the 80's, and try to answer my questions. Where is it as a parent and Christian you draw the line? Am I being over-protective by putting filters and parental controls on the media? Am I doing them a disservice by saying no to watching the Grammys? Is there any media that would be off limits for you? Would you have let your kids watch the Satanic display complained of in this thread? Mock devil worship no big deal and something to be downplayed, as you have done? By telling my kids that's wrong and preventing them from being exposed to it, am I "browbeating" them like your parents who thought Elvis and Pat Boone were of the devil?

As for cultural issues, did you believe Paul was telling Christians they must take to the streets to be salt and light, or can they do it at home and in their daily lives? Is one a hypocrite in your book if he merely denounces it at home or on an internet message board or with the people he knows, as opposed to standing on a soap box on a street corner? Or as long as it doesn't affect you personally, is it "judgmental" to expose unfruitful works to the world, as Paul commanded? Should we refrain from speaking truth in love because that's "browbeating"?

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I wont say you are being overprotective. Kids/families are different. If I were raising my kids again I would still just have one TV. I would not monitor their communications with friends. If I thought they were spending too much time on their laptops I would move their desk to the living room.

I taught my sons to respect women. They didnt cuss in front of women. They had a time to be home, etc etc. I didnt like all the girls they dated but didnt get too involved. Once they graduated from high school the dinner plate was broken and they were on their own. My youngest eventually married the first and only girl he ever kissed, My middle son was much different. He made friends with some stewardesses and used to fly to NY with them and do modeling for some sales catalogues. He lived with a girlfriend in college but met a great girl in law school and now has 3 kids and is happy.

I tried to set a good example. My kids have still never seen me drink a beer. They know I do or at least dd. They have never seen me drunk. I never smoked or did any drugs. I took them to church when they were still living in y house.

The oldest son always listened to the same music I do. He and I have been to 7 or 8 Tom Petty concerts. I took both of them to see the Stones. I think Dave Mathews and Oasis opened.

My experience was different because I was a singe father.. Luckily they were able to overcome my shortcoming and all three grown into mature responsible citizens, The boys vote republican and the girl is a dem. I blame her mother.

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I am glad your kids turned out well. Lucky for you, they were raised in the 80's, when exposure to such filth wasn't so easy. Unfortunately, this is a very different day and age we live in and raise kids. Unfiltered and unmonitored exposure to media is a great way to lead to numerous addictions and other issues, studies have shown.

I suspect that if you were raising kids today, you wouldn't have such a laissez faire approach to what you would allow them to be exposed to, nor such a flippant response to mock devil worship.

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Crack cocaine was big in the 80's. Same percent as today. Sedatives were more common back then, Pot and alcohol were more common back then. I have heard pot is stronger now. I dont know but I trust my sources.

https://rehabs.com/blog/most-popular-drug-in-us-by-decade/


In the 80's Tipper Gore tried to lead America about the horrible satanic violent trends of rock music. Here is Dee Snider appearing in a hearing defending himself. He is well spoken and and runs circles around the critics. Frank Zappa also appeared but I couldnt find a clip.

Evil has always existed, even back then. A man should raise his children with common sense. Spend a lot of time with them. Instead of always trying to monitor, control and play defense, a man should teach his children to be honest, fearless and strong. Teach them to work hard, play hard and be true to what they believe, I know its scary. i always wanted to be the one my kids came to when they had questions. I didnt want to be seen as a warden. I was the leader.

Every generation thinks its tougher to raise kids than the one before it. Parenting isnt easy. Its rarely a result of parents getting lucky, much less a young single parent. with three kids.

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If you are making the argument that sin and evil have been around forever, you will get no dispute from me. My point was different. My point was that access to filth is much easier for kids today than it was when you were raising kids, and there's really no way any reasonable person can dispute that. As a contemporary of your kids, I can personally attest to how difficult it was to get one's hands on filth or drugs. It wasn't impossible, certainly, but much more difficult than now days. Now, kids can simply type in a search on the web browser on their phones, or text their dealer and meet up behind the house. It is so easy.

And that is why parents today must be vigilant in protecting their kids. Of course we are required to train our kids and teach them up in the way they should go, so they do not depart from it in their old age (Prov. 22:6). But that is only one part of the equation, LIQR. God does not tell us, "Teach your kids what's right, lead by example, and then remove all protections and throw them to the wolves." You and I both know that would be absurd. They're kids, LIQR, and it takes years of training to teach them in the way they should go. Would you teach your 13-year-old year old how to handle a gun, and then allow him access to your arsenal? Would you model not drinking alcohol, and then open up the liquor cabinet at home? Would you tell him, lust is wrong, and then provide him access to an unfiltered computer? Of course not. It's not the binary choice you seem to want to make it. Training your kids but also putting protections in place until he or she is mature enough, with enough training, to handle bad situations isn't suffocating and controlling one's kids. It's called being a parent, LIQR. That's Parenting 101.

As for Tipper Gore, it's of course no surprise that people have overreacted to pop culture in the past. I had a youth minister at the local Baptist church we attended when I was a kid who tried to tell us Star Wars was satanic. However, because you can point out the fact that some people overreacted to pop culture in the past doesn't me that every reaction is an overreaction. And that's the ridiculous argument you're making. What happened at the Grammys was bad, and it's ok to critique that as a Christian despite the fact that Tipper Gore thought rock music was Satanic, or your grandma thought Pat Boone was of the devil.

Remember we are required to speak up about evil, not sit on our butts. Salt and light, LIQR, salt and light.

LateSteak69 said:

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Mothra said:

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LateSteak69 said:

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This concept is brand new, we have never seen this before. Marilyn Manson, Judas Priest, Slayer, Iron Maiden, etc were all super popular and had a very Christian focused message. We are doomed.

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New? No.

What we usually expect to be exposed to during prime time at an award's show like the Grammys? Also, no.

The fact that it's not new makes it ok, and unworthy of critique? Yet again, no.

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never said it is not worth of critique. just simply it's not new. dont over analyze.

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No one is overanalyzing. They're pointing out it was bad. And it was.

I find the Disney video a hundred times more offensive than the Sam Smith thing.

He Hate Me said:

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I am not going to watch or listen to that, but I am curious as to who is it that is performing and what is the "song?"

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Sam Smith...the title of the song is "unholy"

Booze porn and drugs were easy when I was growing up in the 70's. I cant imagine it being easier that the local 7/11, fridges in garages and the hippie on the corner. Some drugs were more prevalent in the 80's than they are now. Pot and booze were more prevalent then. Crack/cocain about the same.

There were no cells back then but there were telephones. I never kneeled by the door or used spy equipment to control my daughter. (sons didnt use phone much). That would show I did not trust he. i respected her privacy.
My rifles were under my bed and bullets were n my sock drawer. My daughter didnt care about them but i taught my sons how to use them. In my house they were only tools, We shot coyotes a few times and they used to take them out while we were at the ranch.

I agree with protecting our kids. I did when they were young. I probably raised them differently. In my culture a youth becomes a man at 18, so at 17 my kids were almost grown.

I brought up Tipper Gore to show the pattern. History tends to repeat itself. i worked hard to be a good parent and raise my children. My kids had it rougher than some. There is no script but my way worked pretty well.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Booze porn and drugs were easy when I was growing up in the 70's. I cant imagine it being easier that the local 7/11, fridges in garages and the hippie on the corner. Some drugs were more prevalent in the 80's than they are now. Pot and booze were more prevalent then. Crack/cocain about the same.

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Where did you grow up?

I was in high school in the early 2000s in East Texas.

We had booze, and we had playboys (I never even saw internet porn until I was out of high school), and there was some weed around but it was not something everyone did or was done all that often.

Hard core drugs other than weed, internet porn straight to you iphone, fentanyl...this stuff was unthinkable for us.

Kids today are growing up in a very different environment.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Booze porn and drugs were easy when I was growing up in the 70's. I cant imagine it being easier that the local 7/11, fridges in garages and the hippie on the corner. Some drugs were more prevalent in the 80's than they are now. Pot and booze were more prevalent then. Crack/cocain about the same.

There were no cells back then but there were telephones. I never kneeled by the door or used spy equipment to control my daughter. (sons didnt use phone much). That would show I did not trust he. i respected her privacy.
My rifles were under my bed and bullets were n my sock drawer. My daughter didnt care about them but i taught my sons how to use them. In my house they were only tools, We shot coyotes a few times and they used to take them out while we were at the ranch.

I agree with protecting our kids. I did when they were young. I probably raised them differently. In my culture a youth becomes a man at 18, so at 17 my kids were almost grown.

I brought up Tipper Gore to show the pattern. History tends to repeat itself. i worked hard to be a good parent and raise my children. My kids had it rougher than some. There is no script but my way worked pretty well.

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You keep talking about booze and drugs, but not the subject of this thread. I understand why you are focusing on those instead of the subject matter. Filth is a lot easier for kids to come by today than it was in the 70's or 80's. If you're honest, you would acknowledge that fact. Or maybe you are just ignorant of that fact, since you're not raising kids today.

I've likewise never kneeled by the door or used spy equipment. I have gone through their phones, and put filters and firewalls on computers and electronics because that is what good parents do today. As I said, it's a lot different than the 80's you want to keep comparing today to. Night and day. You'd be shocked, I am sure.

Again, one person's over-reaction doesn't mean every reaction is an overreaction. That's a logical fallacy. Believe it or not, some issues are worth speaking up about or making a big deal about, regardless of what Tipper Gore or grandma did.

Again, glad your kids turned out well. It sounds like you were a lot more protective of them than you initially let on in this thread.

Redbrickbear said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Booze porn and drugs were easy when I was growing up in the 70's. I cant imagine it being easier that the local 7/11, fridges in garages and the hippie on the corner. Some drugs were more prevalent in the 80's than they are now. Pot and booze were more prevalent then. Crack/cocain about the same.

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Where did you grow up?

I was in high school in the early 2000s in East Texas.

We had booze, and we had playboys (I never even saw internet porn until I was out of high school), and there was some weed around but it was not something everyone did or was done all that often.

Hard core drugs other than weed, internet porn straight to you iphone, fentanyl...this stuff was unthinkable for us.

Kids today are growing up in a very different environment.

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Of course you are correct. He has a narrative to maintain, though.

Redbrickbear said:

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Where did you grow up?

I was in high school in the early 2000s in East Texas.

We had booze, and we had playboys (I never even saw internet porn until I was out of high school), and there was some weed around but it was not something everyone did or was done all that often.

Hard core drugs other than weed, internet porn straight to you iphone, fentanyl...this stuff was unthinkable for us.

Kids today are growing up in a very different environment.

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Just curious if you were in private or public HS in East Texas?

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Where did you grow up?

I was in high school in the early 2000s in East Texas.

We had booze, and we had playboys (I never even saw internet porn until I was out of high school), and there was some weed around but it was not something everyone did or was done all that often.

Hard core drugs other than weed, internet porn straight to you iphone, fentanyl...this stuff was unthinkable for us.

Kids today are growing up in a very different environment.

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Just curious if you were in private or public HS in East Texas?

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lol public….very working class public


From wiki: [The median income for a household in the city was $28,352, and for a family was $34,318. Males had a median income of $30,656 versus $22,083 for females].

I grew up going to Midway. Got married at 15, Finished high school at 18, graduated from Baylor at 22 in 1983.

Yes things have changed. Playboy was porn back then, for my grandpa it was probably ankles and knees at the beach. We had phones instead of cells. When i was in high school the drinking age was 18. Which meant I could buy it at 16. i looked and acted older bqck then.

I provided a good home for my kids. I played the role of leader not boss/warden. I would have never. monitored my kids phone calls as long as they werent long distance. But kids are different. I guess some need it some dont. My kids had been making most decisions by the time they were 18 and had no trouble moving out and starting college at 18. Both sons finished in 4 yers, one went on to law school for another 2 or 3 years. My daughter changed her major and took 5. All three paid for their own education. They were adults.

Each generation worries about the next and thinks they are going to hell. Each generation rebels to a certain extend. There have always been drugs, porn booze, shocking music etc. Having older people trying to ban stuff wont work. The TT thread is hilarious. You can teach/show your kids how to navigate troubled waters by showing leadership and being the person they trust. of course the trust must be mutual. Kids are great detectors of hypocrisy.

PS. I admit being a coach allowed me to know my kids friends better. I think that is an important advantage I had over parents that didnt know their kids peers. my daughter used to complain that i knew all her boy friends and didnt like any of them.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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I grew up going to Midway. Got married at 15, Finished high school at 18, graduated from Baylor at 22 in 1983.

Yes things have changed. Playboy was porn back then, for my grandpa it was probably ankles and knees at the beach. We had phones instead of cells. When i was in high school the drinking age was 18. Which meant I could buy it at 16. i looked and acted older bqck then.

I provided a good home for my kids. I played the role of leader not boss/warden. I would have never. monitored my kids phone calls as long as they werent long distance. But kids are different. I guess some need it some dont. My kids had been making most decisions by the time they were 18 and had no trouble moving out and starting college at 18. Both sons finished in 4 yers, one went on to law school for another 2 or 3 years. My daughter changed her major and took 5. All three paid for their own education. They were adults.

Each generation worries about the next and thinks they are going to hell. Each generation rebels to a certain extend. There have always been drugs, porn booze, shocking music etc. Having older people trying to ban stuff wont work. The TT thread is hilarious. You can teach/show your kids how to navigate troubled waters by showing leadership and being the person they trust. of course the trust must be mutual. Kids are great detectors of hypocrisy.

PS. I admit being a coach allowed me to know my kids friends better. I think that is an important advantage I had over parents that didnt know their kids peers. my daughter used to complain that i knew all her boy friends and didnt like any of them.

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Again, I am just not sure of the relevance of how you raised your kids in the 80's to the current discussion. Yes, I understand that there were bad things in the 80's and 90's, when you raised your kids, and in the 70's, when you grew up. To reiterate once again, that is not in dispute. Sin and evil have been around forever.

But, as stated previously, the difference between those times and these is our children's access to it. It is much more readily available. And the kinds of things our kids are exposed to are undoubtedly worse, and have gotten more extreme. Sure, you could find bad music and porn back in the 80's. But it wasn't broadcast in prime time for all to see. It wasn't within the push of a button. And that's the distinction you continue to miss.

The bottom line is it's disingenuous of you to say how you would raise your kids if smart phones and the internet had been a thing when they grew up. Until you've stood in the shoes of today's parents, and experienced the challenges they face with today's media and electronics, you would have no way of knowing how you'd parent.

So I think it's a little bit disingenuous for you to say you'd do things today exactly

You asked and i answered.

There is nothing new under the sun. Evil is out there. Its always been there..

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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You asked and i answered.

There is nothing new under the sun. Evil is out there. Its always been there..

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Not really. You gave a narrative about what you did back in the 70's and 80's that really has no bearing whatsoever on the discussion at hand, and certainly didn't answer my questions.

I am interested in your flippant statement about evil, however, and am trying to figure out your point. Is it that we shouldn't get too worked up about evil because it's out there and always has been? We shouldn't speak up about it? And we shouldn't try to protect our kids from it? Because, you know, it's out there and always has been. Perhaps we should just relax, sit back and enjoy it? What do you think about scritpure's commands to speak up about evil? Just something you don't really put much stock in?

What do you think about my scripture, "Theres nothing new under the sun."?

Right is right, wrong is wrong, teach your children the difference. Its the same as its always been.

Evil exists, its always been there. Thats not flippant. its a fact.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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What do you think about my scripture, "Theres nothing new under the sun."?

Right is right, wrong is wrong, teach your children the difference. Its the same as its always been.

Evil exists, its always been there. Thats not flippant. its a fact.

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There is no new sin under the sun....true

But there is certainly new technology under the sun and new faster ways of transmitting that sin across the globe and instantaneously....and getting it in front of the eyes of younger and younger children.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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What do you think about my scripture, "Theres nothing new under the sun."?

Right is right, wrong is wrong, teach your children the difference. Its the same as its always been.

Evil exists, its always been there. Thats not flippant. its a fact.

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1. Solomon was commenting on what is essentially the cyclic nature of human life on earth and the emptiness of living only for oneself or materialism, instead of for God. Of course, to say there is nothing new under the sun does not ignore inventions or advances in technology. Instead, especially when read in context with his other comments, Solomon is saying innovations do not amount to any basic change in the world. Human nature has remained and always will remain the same. In short, Solomon's message in Ecclesiastes is we need God.

2. So, teach your children what's right, and then throw them to the wolves and hope for the best? Don't teach them what's right AND try to put protections in place until they're mature enough in their beliefs to handle evil? In other words, teach them about the dangers of liquor, guns and porn, but leave the liquor cabinet unlocked, the arsenal opened, and the media completely unfiltered?

3. You misunderstood me. Saying evil exists isn't in and of itself flippant. It was your using that as an excuse to justify sitting on your ass, not speaking up, downplaying evil, not protecting your kids, and generally doing nothing in the face of evil that was flippant - in short, everything you've said on this thread.

Didn't see an answer to these questions, so I will ask them again:

Is it that we shouldn't get too worked up about evil because it's out there and always has been? We shouldn't speak up about it? And we shouldn't try to protect our kids from it? Because, you know, it's out there and always has been. Perhaps we should just relax, sit back and enjoy it? What do you think about scritpure's commands to speak up about evil? Just something you don't really put much stock in?

Redbrickbear said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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What do you think about my scripture, "Theres nothing new under the sun."?

Right is right, wrong is wrong, teach your children the difference. Its the same as its always been.

Evil exists, its always been there. Thats not flippant. its a fact.

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There is no new sin under the sun....true

But there is certainly new technology under the sun and new faster ways of transmitting that sin across the globe and instantaneously....and getting in front of the eyes of young and younger children.

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[LIQR]Nah, as long as you teach them what's right, you can leave the loaded gun, the Jack Daniels and the playboys on the kitchen table.[/LIQR]

I never had alcohol in my house. Guns were in my closet bullets in my sock drawer. No porn on house and i ne er bought a playboy or any other girlie mag. I said this before. Why do you lie?

My way works. Kinda early to tell for yours. When will you let your sons have phones you dont control? When they graduate high school? College? When they marry a girl you approve of? Ever?

https://crackmagazine.net/article/long-reads/what-is-satan-music/

This article tracks "satanic music" from the middle ages to modern. Its nothng new.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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I never had alcohol in my house. Guns were in my closet bullets in my sock drawer. No porn on house and i ne er bought a playboy or any other girlie mag. I said this before. Why do you lie?

My way works. Kinda early to tell for yours. When will you let your sons have phones you dont control? When they graduate high school? College? When they marry a girl you approve of? Ever?

https://crackmagazine.net/article/long-reads/what-is-satan-music/

This article tracks "satanic music" from the middle ages to modern. Its nothng new.

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You are once again completely missing my point. You keep trying to make this argument about you and your parenting style back in the 80's. If you will read a little closer and try to comprehend, I've been trying to steer you away from your egocentric position for about 6-7 posts now. For like the 5th time, how you raised your kids in the 80's isn't germane to this discussion. The point I've been trying to communicate to you - thus far unsuccessfully (though not for lack of trying) - is todays challenges are much different than when you raised your kids. And you are clueless regarding same.

Yes I know that you didn't leave porn and filth on the table. My point - which you just can't seem to comprehend - is that allowing your kids unrestricted access to media nowadays is doing exactly that. It's leaving the playboys and the filth on the table for your children to peruse. It's right there within a couple of clicks of a button - readily available for your kids. And yet, the absurdity of your position is that even though you admit you didn't allow such stuff into your home when you raised your kids, you're suggesting to me and other parents raising kids today that having filters on computers and phones is essentially smothering kids or being too protective. In other words, you're critical of todays parents for doing exactly what you did in the 80's - protecting your kids from filth. Despite being a smart poster, remarkably, the irony and hypocrisy of your position is seemingly lost on you.

As I said earlier, I attribute your position to ignorance. You just don't understand todays challenges. Leaving devices unprotected is leaving the gun on the table. You just don't understand that because you're glib.

Had a kid in my discipleship group that hung himself in the backyard last year. Raised in church by a single mom who did the best she could to train him and raise him right. Mom is single so after it happened, myself and and a couple of dads had to come clean up afterwards. I actually cut the rope out of the tree and helped repair the fence the paramedics took down to get to his body. Mom was naive and overwhelmed and didn't have any protections in place on his devices. Had unrestricted use of computer and phone. After he passed, she decided to review his computer and social media history - you know the kind of snooping you find intolerable. And what she found was alarming: 1) he was being bullied on social media and text by kids at school; 2) he was doing drugs and had a drug dealer he was communicating with via an instant messenger app; and 3) he had talked to friends via text about his depression and committing suicide. Poor mom was completely clueless to all of it. You can imagine the regret she feels now for not being a parent and monitoring/filtering his devices.

Yes sin has existed forever, we agree. And we are required to do something about it instead of sit on our ass like you.

Too bad the boy didnt feel comfortalbe or trust his mother enough to share his problems with her. Tragic story. Single parenting is tough.

Do you not see the pattern that every generation has thought raising children was tougher and tougher? Maybe its a pattern. The more things change the more they dont. A parent can shelter their children up to a certain point. While I attending Baylor I knew many students that grew up sheltered. Some had a hard time adjusting to the extra freedom of being away from their parents for the first time. I bet you have seen that too, And I swas always amazed at 20 year old children that worried about report cards. Their parents still controlled them by financing them.

Working with children and teaching them is much more effective than relying on fences. I know you are a sincere man and raising kids is tough. Good luck.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Too bad the boy didnt feel comfortalbe or trust his mother enough to share his problems with her. Tragic story. Single parenting is tough.

Do you not see the pattern that every generation has thought raising children was tougher and tougher? Maybe its a pattern. The more things change the more they dont. A parent can shelter their children up to a certain point. While I attending Baylor I knew many students that grew up sheltered. Some had a hard time adjusting to the extra freedom of being away from their parents for the first time. I bet you have seen that too, And I swas always amazed at 20 year old children that worried about report cards. Their parents still controlled them by financing them.

Working with children and teaching them is much more effective than relying on fences. I know you are a sincere man and raising kids is tough. Good luck.

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Indeed. Mental issues are tough, and merely teaching a child what's right often times won't solve them, as I'm sure you know. Even when you teach them what's right, sometimes chemical imbalances and rough experiences in childhood are too difficult to overcome. Just imagine if she had actually put some precautions and monitoring in place? Her son would likely still be here. She could have gotten him the help he needed. She would have known he told friends he planned to use a rope to hang himself, and she could have taken the necessary precautions. She has lots of regrets about that. But I don't blame her. Lots of parents are glib to these dangers.

I don't think I ever said that raising kids nowadays is tougher. What I said is that the challenges parents face are different, and you have to be prepared for them. What I tried to explain is this isn't the 80's. It sounds like you were a good and sincere father who did his best to keep the bad stuff out of reach. It's good you had boundaries and precautions in place, and monitored your children. That's what a good parent does. However, merely keeping porn mags out of the house simply won't cut it in todays world. What you give a child a computer or phone that has no protections or monitoring in place, you are essentially handing them the playboy magazine and worse. You are saying here's the drug dealers contact info. Here is the forum for you to bully and be bullied. As a good father that tried to protect his children, I suspect you'd take the necessary precautions today like you did in the 80's.

We agree that a parent can shelter their child too much. Indeed at some point you've got to let them out into the world - once they've been trained sufficiently - and allow them to test that training. But once again I think your ideas suggest mere binary thinking. Putting protections in place on computers and devices isn't sheltering. It's protecting your home from filth coming into it. It's preventing the monthly playboy from being delivered. That's what you fail to grasp.

I am sure you did a fine job with your kids under the circumstances. You seem sincere. I just chalk up the flippant attitude to a grandad who is glib. You're not raising kids today and are simply glib to its challenges . I suspect your kids have all of the necessary precautions in place on the devices for their kids, and are parenting well. Most parents nowadays do have some protections in place to keep the playboys and smut out of the home. I'd suggest asking them sometimes. I bet you'd be very surprised by their answers and your ideas about sheltering children would evolve.