"Well, those are people that don't believe in an almighty god who is absolutely in control of our lives." Rep Keith Self (R)

So God is at fault?

Waco1947 said:

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"Well, those are people that don't believe in an almighty god who is absolutely in control of our lives." Rep Keith Self (R)

So God is at fault?

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It is God, not god.

Carry on.

Waco1947 said:

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"Well, those are people that don't believe in an almighty god who is absolutely in control of our lives." Rep Keith Self (R)

So God is at fault?

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Do you feel like he was talking to you?

Waco1947 said:

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"Well, those are people that don't believe in an almighty god who is absolutely in control of our lives." Rep Keith Self (R)

So God is at fault?

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First of all, we had to stop playing God. It didn't work. Next we decided that hereafter in this drama of life, God was going to be our Director. He is the Principal; we are His agents. He is the Father, and we are His children.

Is "God in control?"

Waco1947 said:

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Is "God in control?"

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Yes, He is.

He Hate Me said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Is "God in control?"

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Your Premise Yes, He is in control.

Then are implications that God was in control of the shooter? Your answer will be "No, the shooter had free will." But your premise states "God is in control." but apparently God is not in control of the shooter. Then God who is an all powerful being (in you theism) must relinquish some control which negates the "ALL" powerful. It is either all or not all. If God grants the evil choice of the shooter then why did God, an all loving being, too, grant evil in God's domain?

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Waco1947 said:

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He Hate Me said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Is "God in control?"

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Your Premise Yes, He is in control.

Then are implications that God was in control of the shooter? Your answer will be "No, the shooter had free will." But your premise states "God is in control." but apparently God is not in control of the shooter. Then God who is an all powerful being (in you theism) must relinquish some control which negates the "ALL" powerful. It is either all or not all. If God grants the evil choice of the shooter then why did God, an all loving being, too, grant evil in God's domain?

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It's possible to believe God is ultimately in control and still understand/realize that because sin entered the world long ago (because satan exists and yes, God grants free will to human beings) God being ultimately in control does not mean bad, evil things won't happen and happen to innocent undeserving people as well as evil people. It's like good, responsible parents being in control of their family doesn't guarantee that bad and unfair, undeserved things will never happen to family members because sadly and tragically evil exists and none of us are guaranteed we will never experience its impact - at least during our earthly lives.

This is generally a fundamental Christian belief that I would think a person claiming to be a pastor would readily understand.

Waco1947 said:

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He Hate Me said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Is "God in control?"

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Your Premise Yes, He is in control.

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Waco1947 said:

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Then are implications that God was in control of the shooter? Your answer will be "No, the shooter had free will." But your premise states "God is in control." but apparently God is not in control of the shooter. Then God who is an all powerful being (in you theism) must relinquish some control which negates the "ALL" powerful. It is either all or not all. If God grants the evil choice of the shooter then why did God, an all loving being, too, grant evil in God's domain?

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A significant part of the public creates a god in their own image and assign to their personal god a character that permits the shedding of innocent blood vis-a-vis abortion. They then conflate the god they created with the God of the Bible. They then demand that the God of the Bible get no public recognition or demand that He be placed in public as one of many options, which He said specifically to not do.

Then we get a violent and godless society that looks something like the character the public has assigned to its god. And then the public demands that the God of the Bible intervene in the society the public and its false god created because we don't like the outcome.

This is not about God's character and nature. This is about the character and nature of the god the public has imagined and the society that is created when people venerate that sort of character.

Atheists: Look how successful we have been in getting God out of society!

Also atheists: Why doesn't God intervene to stop school shootings?

Waco1947 said:

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He Hate Me said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Is "God in control?"

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Your Premise Yes, He is in control.

Then are implications that God was in control of the shooter? Your answer will be "No, the shooter had free will." But your premise states "God is in control." but apparently God is not in control of the shooter. Then God who is an all powerful being (in you theism) must relinquish some control which negates the "ALL" powerful. It is either all or not all. If God grants the evil choice of the shooter then why did God, an all loving being, too, grant evil in God's domain?

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Lol the classic debate. It might be more accurate to say God is omnipotent, but obviously the gift of free will, the allowance for the possibility of evil, means we are not all doing his will.

Waco1947 said:

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Is "God in control?"

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Always

Johnny Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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He Hate Me said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Is "God in control?"

---

Your Premise Yes, He is in control.

Then are implications that God was in control of the shooter? Your answer will be "No, the shooter had free will." But your premise states "God is in control." but apparently God is not in control of the shooter. Then God who is an all powerful being (in you theism) must relinquish some control which negates the "ALL" powerful. It is either all or not all. If God grants the evil choice of the shooter then why did God, an all loving being, too, grant evil in God's domain?

---

---

It's possible to believe God is ultimately in control and still understand/realize that because sin entered the world long ago (because satan exists and yes, God grants free will to human beings) God being ultimately in control does not mean bad, evil things won't happen and happen to innocent undeserving people as well as evil people. It's like good, responsible parents being in control of their family doesn't guarantee that bad and unfair, undeserved things will never happen to family members because sadly and tragically evil exists and none of us are guaranteed we will never experience its impact - at least during our earthly lives.

This is generally a fundamental Christian belief that I would think a person claiming to be a pastor would readily understand.Backhand slam and unnecessary.

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"God is ultimately in control?" yet evil exists. But your premise, also, includes "God is good, all the time AND God is control" so how can God who is all good and all powerful allow evil. Logically the two do not hold together in your theism. Apparently God is not in control as claimed because evil happens.

Porteroso said:

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Waco1947 said:

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He Hate Me said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Is "God in control?"

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Your Premise Yes, He is in control.

Then are implications that God was in control of the shooter? Your answer will be "No, the shooter had free will." But your premise states "God is in control." but apparently God is not in control of the shooter. Then God who is an all powerful being (in you theism) must relinquish some control which negates the "ALL" powerful. It is either all or not all. If God grants the evil choice of the shooter then why did God, an all loving being, too, grant evil in God's domain?

---

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Lol the classic debate. Yes your argument is classic but it fails the test of logic in the secular world ( secular world that that we want them to know God) It might be more accurate to say God is omnipotent, but obviously the gift of free will, the allowance for the possibility of evil, means we are not all doing his will.

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In your theism Omnipotence means God has ALL the power yet our ability to make decisions in our free will means God relinquishes some of God's power in which case God is not ALL powerful because share power with us.
So secular asks, "If God is ALL powerful and God must all powerful all the time then why would a good and gracious God not use that ALL powerfulness?"

You have no answer other than "God shares power with us in our free will."

Again, the secular world says "If shares then your God is not ALL powerful and cannot stop evil. That God is not my God."

Waco1947 said:

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Porteroso said:

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Waco1947 said:

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He Hate Me said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Is "God in control?"

---

Your Premise Yes, He is in control.

Then are implications that God was in control of the shooter? Your answer will be "No, the shooter had free will." But your premise states "God is in control." but apparently God is not in control of the shooter. Then God who is an all powerful being (in you theism) must relinquish some control which negates the "ALL" powerful. It is either all or not all. If God grants the evil choice of the shooter then why did God, an all loving being, too, grant evil in God's domain?

---

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Lol the classic debate. Yes your argument is classic but it fails the test of logic in the secular world ( secular world that that we want them to know God) It might be more accurate to say God is omnipotent, but obviously the gift of free will, the allowance for the possibility of evil, means we are not all doing his will.

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In your theism Omnipotence means God has ALL the power yet our ability to make decisions in our free will means God relinquishes some of God's power in which case God is not ALL powerful because share power with us.
So secular asks, "If God is ALL powerful and God must all powerful all the time then why would a good and gracious God not use that ALL powerfulness?"

You have no answer other than "God shares power with us in our free will."

Again, the secular world says "If shares then your God is not ALL powerful and cannot stop evil. That God is not my God."

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If you are the Son of God, then come down from that cross.

If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.

"It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.' "

"If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
'He shall give His angels charge over you,'
and,
'In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.' "

"It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.' "

God does not owe you anything. And he certainly does not owe you an explanation, sign, wonder, miracle, or other intervention.

Waco1947 said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Is "God in control?"

---

Your Premise Yes, He is in control.

Then are implications that God was in control of the shooter? Your answer will be "No, the shooter had free will." But your premise states "God is in control." but apparently God is not in control of the shooter. Then God who is an all powerful being (in you theism) must relinquish some control which negates the "ALL" powerful. It is either all or not all. If God grants the evil choice of the shooter then why did God, an all loving being, too, grant evil in God's domain?

---

---

It's possible to believe God is ultimately in control and still understand/realize that because sin entered the world long ago (because satan exists and yes, God grants free will to human beings) God being ultimately in control does not mean bad, evil things won't happen and happen to innocent undeserving people as well as evil people. It's like good, responsible parents being in control of their family doesn't guarantee that bad and unfair, undeserved things will never happen to family members because sadly and tragically evil exists and none of us are guaranteed we will never experience its impact - at least during our earthly lives.

This is generally a fundamental Christian belief that I would think a person claiming to be a pastor would readily understand.Backhand slam and unnecessary.

---

"God is ultimately in control?" yet evil exists. But your premise, also, includes "God is good, all the time AND God is control" so how can God who is all good and all powerful allow evil. Logically the two do not hold together in your theism. Apparently God is not in control as claimed because evil happens.

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https://www.bethinking.org/would-a-good-god-allow-suffering/q-why-does-god-allow-evil-to-exist