Does anyone care about the USA Debt limit?

17,442 Views | 180 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Redbrickbear
Oldbear83
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Guy Noir: "I do not understand why they cannot just freeze the budget. Eliminate all the covid spending and then do a 1-2% flat cut across the board to cover the interest payment increases."

They won't do that, precisely because it would work. And then, whenever the Party in White House wanted to spend more on its pet programs, the other - if they controlled the House - would be able to stop them.
Doc Holliday
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I don't see how the definition of our government isn't a kleptocracy.

We have a system that is buying and selling public offices, or using government appointments to purchase political support. Within this mechanism you have bureaucrats overpaying contractors/corporations because they will support a politicians campaign. The politicians give the bureaucrats more power/income for doing their bidding.

Our tax dollars are their piggy bank. They do the bare minimum on delivering services, goods, welfare and infrastructure. We're paying for a $500 steak dinner and they're giving us prison food.

It would take all of them voting against their own financial interests to change this.

The mistake our forefathers made was not having enough rules on the elected class.
GrowlTowel
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Doc Holliday said:

I don't see how the definition of our government isn't a kleptocracy.

We have a system that is buying and selling public offices, or using government appointments to purchase political support. Within this mechanism you have bureaucrats overpaying contractors/corporations because they will support a politicians campaign. The politicians give the bureaucrats more power/income for doing their bidding.

Our tax dollars are their piggy bank. They do the bare minimum on delivering services, goods, welfare and infrastructure. We're paying for a $500 steak dinner and they're giving us prison food.

It would take all of them voting against their own financial interests to change this.

The mistake our forefathers made was not having enough rules on the elected class.
Not sure it was the forefathers. I have always maintained that the direct election of senators put the US on its current path.
Wrecks Quan Dough
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GrowlTowel said:

Doc Holliday said:

I don't see how the definition of our government isn't a kleptocracy.

We have a system that is buying and selling public offices, or using government appointments to purchase political support. Within this mechanism you have bureaucrats overpaying contractors/corporations because they will support a politicians campaign. The politicians give the bureaucrats more power/income for doing their bidding.

Our tax dollars are their piggy bank. They do the bare minimum on delivering services, goods, welfare and infrastructure. We're paying for a $500 steak dinner and they're giving us prison food.

It would take all of them voting against their own financial interests to change this.

The mistake our forefathers made was not having enough rules on the elected class.
Not sure it was the forefathers. I have always maintained that the direct election of senators put the US on its current path.
Yep. Where is the States' representation?
Doc Holliday
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GrowlTowel said:

Doc Holliday said:

I don't see how the definition of our government isn't a kleptocracy.

We have a system that is buying and selling public offices, or using government appointments to purchase political support. Within this mechanism you have bureaucrats overpaying contractors/corporations because they will support a politicians campaign. The politicians give the bureaucrats more power/income for doing their bidding.

Our tax dollars are their piggy bank. They do the bare minimum on delivering services, goods, welfare and infrastructure. We're paying for a $500 steak dinner and they're giving us prison food.

It would take all of them voting against their own financial interests to change this.

The mistake our forefathers made was not having enough rules on the elected class.
Not sure it was the forefathers. I have always maintained that the direct election of senators put the US on its current path.
Whips and leaders imo.

It allowed a single entity to control the rest of congress/senate. It almost forces elected officials to vote in lockstep for something they might oppose because if they oppose it they'll be denied help/funding for their constituency.
FLBear5630
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Doc Holliday said:

GrowlTowel said:

Doc Holliday said:

I don't see how the definition of our government isn't a kleptocracy.

We have a system that is buying and selling public offices, or using government appointments to purchase political support. Within this mechanism you have bureaucrats overpaying contractors/corporations because they will support a politicians campaign. The politicians give the bureaucrats more power/income for doing their bidding.

Our tax dollars are their piggy bank. They do the bare minimum on delivering services, goods, welfare and infrastructure. We're paying for a $500 steak dinner and they're giving us prison food.

It would take all of them voting against their own financial interests to change this.

The mistake our forefathers made was not having enough rules on the elected class.
Not sure it was the forefathers. I have always maintained that the direct election of senators put the US on its current path.
Whips and leaders imo.

It allowed a single entity to control the rest of congress/senate. It almost forces elected officials to vote in lockstep for something they might oppose because if they oppose it they'll be denied help/funding for their constituency.
No, its worse than that.

We have 1 side that will lock step and the other side will not on principle. That is allowing the lock step to have their way. The GOP is even more splintered now and having a harder time generating blocks to the Dems whacky agenda Trumpettes vs the rest of the GOP is not helping.

I am starting to believe we need a more parlimentary system or the Dems will just run rampant for the nect 50 years. GOP is showing no desire or ability to close ranks. The Jan 6th Commission showed just how bad the GOP is run. Pelosi and Abrams (election) kicked the GOP ass.

I do not see anyone coming that has the ability to take on Dems. Too many are backing Trump, who has zero chance of winning a General Election. Be prepared for Dems to have their way for the foreseeable future, States need to figure how to operate within the Biden agenda....
STxBear81
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Why not everyone pay 20% of what they make. No new taxes
If we can't afford to do something as a family or individual or company or country we don't do it. Limit terms for office.
Guy Noir
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STxBear81 said:

Why not everyone pay 20% of what they make. No new taxes
If we can't afford to do something as a family or individual or company or country we don't do it. Limit terms for office.
Those are logical proposals.
nein51
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STxBear81 said:

Why not everyone pay 20% of what they make. No new taxes
If we can't afford to do something as a family or individual or company or country we don't do it. Limit terms for office.

The answer is that is wildly regressive and, frankly, wouldn't solve the problem. You would have to get closer to 35-40% and there's no hope some politician is going to get up on a podium and recommend that.

The answer is a graduated income tax structure with no loop holes, no deductions and literally 100% of earners paying.

Fully 50% of the population pays 0. Why in the world should their vote count as much as mine?

"Hey wanna build a new football field?; your cost is $0.00 but you're neighbor is going to have to pay $100"…well hell yeah…I don't have to pay?? Build it!

People who don't pay taxes shouldn't have a vote on anything that requires even $1 of spending.
FormerFlash
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Sic Everyone.
LIB,MR BEARS
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Guy Noir said:

It is May 24th and there is still no budget agreement. I do not understand why they cannot just freeze the budget. Eliminate all the covid spending and then do a 1-2% flat cut across the board to cover the interest payment increases. They should be able to leave SS out of the across the board cuts. If that does not the cover the budget deficit then increase taxes a bit. Congress has spent itself into a corner so we all will hurt us all a bit due to budget cuts and possible tax increases. It is better to take the medicine now rather than kicking the can down the road.
That takes the power out of their hands
D. C. Bear
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nein51 said:

STxBear81 said:

Why not everyone pay 20% of what they make. No new taxes
If we can't afford to do something as a family or individual or company or country we don't do it. Limit terms for office.

The answer is that is wildly regressive and, frankly, wouldn't solve the problem. You would have to get closer to 35-40% and there's no hope some politician is going to get up on a podium and recommend that.

The answer is a graduated income tax structure with no loop holes, no deductions and literally 100% of earners paying.

Fully 50% of the population pays 0. Why in the world should their vote count as much as mine?

"Hey wanna build a new football field?; your cost is $0.00 but you're neighbor is going to have to pay $100"…well hell yeah…I don't have to pay?? Build it!

People who don't pay taxes shouldn't have a vote on anything that requires even $1 of spending.


No, they don't pay "nothing." They already pay a 15.3 percent flat tax on every penny they make.

Incidentally, a flat tax with a rebate for every taxpayer up to poverty level spending would not be "regressive."
Cobretti
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FormerFlash
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McCarthy and the Republicans passed a debt ceiling bill that was a reasonable compromise and only required spending to be cut back to 2022 levels. Biden's white house, from his own sound bites and from his incomparably stupid press secretary, unequivocally stated "we will not compromise." They said it over and over. They came across as unreasonable and this poll is a reflection of that.

Now KJP is bold faced lying to the press corps and the American people stating they never said they wouldn't negotiate. This is the backlash they deserve.
Sic Everyone.
Cobretti
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Harrison Bergeron
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We have not had an actual president since January 2021. We have a corrupt old rapist-rascist with a single-digit IQ.
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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Guy Noir said:

The raising of the USA Debt Limit has become a common activity the last several years such that it is no big deal to many Americans. Every dollar borrowed weakens the economic base of the US dollar just a little more.

If one assumes that thee USA will pay 2% interest on this debt, then at $30 trillion (rough current debt level) is $600 million. If the debt goes up to $50 trillion (this is forecast for the next 10-17 years) then we will be paying $1 trillion a year in interest payments. The USA will not be able to function very well when debt service is this high.

We need to cut federal spending and attempt to pay down the debt to $25 trillion to be able keep fiscal control of our country's business. Domestic spending vs defense spending will continue, but both will need to be cut in the future.
High drama in the eleventh hour, Guy. Will a deal not be done and the stock market plummet 45 percent as one of the gloom and doomers has predicted or will there be compromise and a deal struck causing the stock market to soar on Tuesday?

I say we're gonna soar! Am hopeful these jacklegs on both sides of the aisle realize how much retirement income and investments mean to everyone. Unfortunately, It will be a very short-term solution to a long-term problem.
"Stand with anyone when he is right; Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong." - Abraham Lincoln
FLBear5630
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Guy Noir said:

The raising of the USA Debt Limit has become a common activity the last several years such that it is no big deal to many Americans. Every dollar borrowed weakens the economic base of the US dollar just a little more.

If one assumes that thee USA will pay 2% interest on this debt, then at $30 trillion (rough current debt level) is $600 million. If the debt goes up to $50 trillion (this is forecast for the next 10-17 years) then we will be paying $1 trillion a year in interest payments. The USA will not be able to function very well when debt service is this high.

We need to cut federal spending and attempt to pay down the debt to $25 trillion to be able keep fiscal control of our country's business. Domestic spending vs defense spending will continue, but both will need to be cut in the future.
High drama in the eleventh hour, Guy. Will a deal not be done and the stock market plummet 45 percent as one of the gloom and doomers has predicted or will there be compromise and a deal struck causing the stock market to soar on Tuesday?

I say we're gonna soar! Am hopeful these jacklegs on both sides of the aisle realize how much retirement income and investments mean to everyone. Unfortunately, It will be a very short-term solution to a long-term problem.


Of course deal will be cut.

Question is what gets done long term. Something has to change. Both Biden and Trump spent like drunken sailors.
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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RMF5630 said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Guy Noir said:

The raising of the USA Debt Limit has become a common activity the last several years such that it is no big deal to many Americans. Every dollar borrowed weakens the economic base of the US dollar just a little more.

If one assumes that thee USA will pay 2% interest on this debt, then at $30 trillion (rough current debt level) is $600 million. If the debt goes up to $50 trillion (this is forecast for the next 10-17 years) then we will be paying $1 trillion a year in interest payments. The USA will not be able to function very well when debt service is this high.

We need to cut federal spending and attempt to pay down the debt to $25 trillion to be able keep fiscal control of our country's business. Domestic spending vs defense spending will continue, but both will need to be cut in the future.
High drama in the eleventh hour, Guy. Will a deal not be done and the stock market plummet 45 percent as one of the gloom and doomers has predicted or will there be compromise and a deal struck causing the stock market to soar on Tuesday?

I say we're gonna soar! Am hopeful these jacklegs on both sides of the aisle realize how much retirement income and investments mean to everyone. Unfortunately, It will be a very short-term solution to a long-term problem.


Of course deal will be cut.

Question is what gets done long term. Something has to change. Both Biden and Trump spent like drunken sailors.
Agree with you here. Gonna take a commitment from BOTH sides! Almost two thirds of Americans want Congress to reign in and reduce spending.
"Stand with anyone when he is right; Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong." - Abraham Lincoln
FLBear5630
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

RMF5630 said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Guy Noir said:

The raising of the USA Debt Limit has become a common activity the last several years such that it is no big deal to many Americans. Every dollar borrowed weakens the economic base of the US dollar just a little more.

If one assumes that thee USA will pay 2% interest on this debt, then at $30 trillion (rough current debt level) is $600 million. If the debt goes up to $50 trillion (this is forecast for the next 10-17 years) then we will be paying $1 trillion a year in interest payments. The USA will not be able to function very well when debt service is this high.

We need to cut federal spending and attempt to pay down the debt to $25 trillion to be able keep fiscal control of our country's business. Domestic spending vs defense spending will continue, but both will need to be cut in the future.
High drama in the eleventh hour, Guy. Will a deal not be done and the stock market plummet 45 percent as one of the gloom and doomers has predicted or will there be compromise and a deal struck causing the stock market to soar on Tuesday?

I say we're gonna soar! Am hopeful these jacklegs on both sides of the aisle realize how much retirement income and investments mean to everyone. Unfortunately, It will be a very short-term solution to a long-term problem.


Of course deal will be cut.

Question is what gets done long term. Something has to change. Both Biden and Trump spent like drunken sailors.
Agree with you here. Gonna take a commitment from BOTH sides! Almost two thirds of Americans want Congress to reign in and reduce spending.
RDS is open to flat tax and simplification of the tax code, be interesting to see what he thinks. I agree with moving SS to 70 and Medicare cost reform (not for getting rid of either).

Defense spending is going to be interesting. Our approach is to out tech the enemy, will that hold up as tech is getting so expensive and our enemies will use numbers to offset.
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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RMF5630 said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

RMF5630 said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Guy Noir said:

The raising of the USA Debt Limit has become a common activity the last several years such that it is no big deal to many Americans. Every dollar borrowed weakens the economic base of the US dollar just a little more.

If one assumes that thee USA will pay 2% interest on this debt, then at $30 trillion (rough current debt level) is $600 million. If the debt goes up to $50 trillion (this is forecast for the next 10-17 years) then we will be paying $1 trillion a year in interest payments. The USA will not be able to function very well when debt service is this high.

We need to cut federal spending and attempt to pay down the debt to $25 trillion to be able keep fiscal control of our country's business. Domestic spending vs defense spending will continue, but both will need to be cut in the future.
High drama in the eleventh hour, Guy. Will a deal not be done and the stock market plummet 45 percent as one of the gloom and doomers has predicted or will there be compromise and a deal struck causing the stock market to soar on Tuesday?

I say we're gonna soar! Am hopeful these jacklegs on both sides of the aisle realize how much retirement income and investments mean to everyone. Unfortunately, It will be a very short-term solution to a long-term problem.


Of course deal will be cut.

Question is what gets done long term. Something has to change. Both Biden and Trump spent like drunken sailors.
Agree with you here. Gonna take a commitment from BOTH sides! Almost two thirds of Americans want Congress to reign in and reduce spending.
RDS is open to flat tax and simplification of the tax code, be interesting to see what he thinks. I agree with moving SS to 70 and Medicare cost reform (not for getting rid of either).

Defense spending is going to be interesting. Our approach is to out tech the enemy, will that hold up as tech is getting so expensive and our enemies will use numbers to offset.
I would love a flat tax. That is the REAL pay your fair share tax approach. Too many lawyers and accountants that will never allow a flat tax to happen. That is just our reality.
"Stand with anyone when he is right; Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong." - Abraham Lincoln
FLBear5630
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

RMF5630 said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

RMF5630 said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Guy Noir said:

The raising of the USA Debt Limit has become a common activity the last several years such that it is no big deal to many Americans. Every dollar borrowed weakens the economic base of the US dollar just a little more.

If one assumes that thee USA will pay 2% interest on this debt, then at $30 trillion (rough current debt level) is $600 million. If the debt goes up to $50 trillion (this is forecast for the next 10-17 years) then we will be paying $1 trillion a year in interest payments. The USA will not be able to function very well when debt service is this high.

We need to cut federal spending and attempt to pay down the debt to $25 trillion to be able keep fiscal control of our country's business. Domestic spending vs defense spending will continue, but both will need to be cut in the future.
High drama in the eleventh hour, Guy. Will a deal not be done and the stock market plummet 45 percent as one of the gloom and doomers has predicted or will there be compromise and a deal struck causing the stock market to soar on Tuesday?

I say we're gonna soar! Am hopeful these jacklegs on both sides of the aisle realize how much retirement income and investments mean to everyone. Unfortunately, It will be a very short-term solution to a long-term problem.


Of course deal will be cut.

Question is what gets done long term. Something has to change. Both Biden and Trump spent like drunken sailors.
Agree with you here. Gonna take a commitment from BOTH sides! Almost two thirds of Americans want Congress to reign in and reduce spending.
RDS is open to flat tax and simplification of the tax code, be interesting to see what he thinks. I agree with moving SS to 70 and Medicare cost reform (not for getting rid of either).

Defense spending is going to be interesting. Our approach is to out tech the enemy, will that hold up as tech is getting so expensive and our enemies will use numbers to offset.
I would love a flat tax. That is the REAL pay your fair share tax approach. Too many lawyers and accountants that will never allow a flat tax to happen. That is just our reality.


At least it would be a Pres that is open to new tax/revenue plans
Doc Holliday
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Our country is a fu kn joke. McCarthy is weak.

FLBear5630
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Doc Holliday said:

Our country is a fu kn joke. McCarthy is weak.


That is true. But defaulting is not going to make the problem better! We default, that number goes up as the cost of money rises. Chinese Yuan will be exchange currency.
Doc Holliday
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RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

Our country is a fu kn joke. McCarthy is weak.


That is true. But defaulting is not going to make the problem better! We default, that number goes up as the cost of money rises. Chinese Yuan will be exchange currency.
DC sees the debt ceiling deal as permission to spend even more.

We can't keep doing this.
FLBear5630
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Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

Our country is a fu kn joke. McCarthy is weak.


That is true. But defaulting is not going to make the problem better! We default, that number goes up as the cost of money rises. Chinese Yuan will be exchange currency.
DC sees the debt ceiling deal as permission to spend even more.

We can't keep doing this.
I agree, I was against the COVID spending. They were ridiculous numbers. Defaulting only would make things worse. It is not in anyone's best interest to default over politics.

Spending patterns have to change. We need to invest more in infrastructure and defense, there are categories that need to be cut and others that need to stand pat.
Doc Holliday
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RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

Our country is a fu kn joke. McCarthy is weak.


That is true. But defaulting is not going to make the problem better! We default, that number goes up as the cost of money rises. Chinese Yuan will be exchange currency.
DC sees the debt ceiling deal as permission to spend even more.

We can't keep doing this.
I agree, I was against the COVID spending. They were ridiculous numbers. Defaulting only would make things worse. It is not in anyone's best interest to default over politics.

Spending patterns have to change. We need to invest more in infrastructure and defense, there are categories that need to be cut and others that need to stand pat.
Biggest problem is incompetent bureaucracy. Professional grifters. Legal corruption.

FLBear5630
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Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

Our country is a fu kn joke. McCarthy is weak.


That is true. But defaulting is not going to make the problem better! We default, that number goes up as the cost of money rises. Chinese Yuan will be exchange currency.
DC sees the debt ceiling deal as permission to spend even more.

We can't keep doing this.
I agree, I was against the COVID spending. They were ridiculous numbers. Defaulting only would make things worse. It is not in anyone's best interest to default over politics.

Spending patterns have to change. We need to invest more in infrastructure and defense, there are categories that need to be cut and others that need to stand pat.
Biggest problem is incompetent bureaucracy. Professional grifters. Legal corruption.


Bureaucracy is neither competent nor incompetent it is necessary and protects workers and nations. The problem is not bureaucracy or so-called bureaucrats it is elected officials getting into the processes and calling winners and losers. Bureaucracies have protections built into the system to get things done.
Redbrickbear
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Redbrickbear
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Redbrickbear
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nein51
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That is correct. Neither party cares. They only care about what it's spent on. If it's their project it's good spending.
FLBear5630
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nein51 said:

That is correct. Neither party cares. They only care about what it's spent on. If it's their project it's good spending.


Maybe it has been do long since we agreed on anything the believe is it must be bad. Since when does governing need to be a MMA event and if you don't make the other side tap out you lose?

Really sick of the constantly combative lifestyle we have now. Is it a bridge too far to believe that both sides agree defaulting would be bad, so concessions were made??
nein51
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RMF5630 said:

nein51 said:

That is correct. Neither party cares. They only care about what it's spent on. If it's their project it's good spending.


Maybe it has been do long since we agreed on anything the believe is it must be bad. Since when does governing need to be a MMA event and if you don't make the other side tap out you lose?

Really sick of the constantly combative lifestyle we have now. Is it a bridge too far to believe that both sides agree defaulting would be bad, so concessions were made??

Hope is free and it's a good thing. In any good compromise both parties feel like they left something on the table. In general, I don't believe either party is capable of compromising.
EatMoreSalmon
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RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

Our country is a fu kn joke. McCarthy is weak.


That is true. But defaulting is not going to make the problem better! We default, that number goes up as the cost of money rises. Chinese Yuan will be exchange currency.
DC sees the debt ceiling deal as permission to spend even more.

We can't keep doing this.
I agree, I was against the COVID spending. They were ridiculous numbers. Defaulting only would make things worse. It is not in anyone's best interest to default over politics.

Spending patterns have to change. We need to invest more in infrastructure and defense, there are categories that need to be cut and others that need to stand pat.
Biggest problem is incompetent bureaucracy. Professional grifters. Legal corruption.


Bureaucracy is neither competent nor incompetent it is necessary and protects workers and nations. The problem is not bureaucracy or so-called bureaucrats it is elected officials getting into the processes and calling winners and losers. Bureaucracies have protections built into the system to get things done.


This is not even close to true. Buteaucracies in DC have proven themselves as inefficient and even corrupt over the last 6 years especially.
 
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