Never voted for a Democrat in nationwide races.

fubar said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Through all the scandals, impeachments, Jan 6th call to riot, and overturn the election and indictments the RINOs have protected Trump. RINOs fear his base and will not get a backbone. I look at Barr, Cornyn and Romney and think what happened to their moral compasses. What happened to all those RINOs that T vilified and will vilify in the primaries.
They cannot have it both ways and defend T and yet hold themselves as something different.

Politics or not Trump is indicted for breaking the law and should and should have his day in court to prove his innocence, but he cannot be allowed to destroy confidence in our legal system as the Trump apologists here on this board seek to do.

I hear this stupidity of a defense for Trump from too many unthinking people. I think independents, women, young people, African Americans, and democrats will once again defeat him and T's shirttails bring the downfall of many a Republican candidates.

RINOs support T at your peril.

---

Why are you singling out Mitt Romney? He's the one GOP Senator who has consistently voiced opposition when Trump went beyond the pale.

---

Did Mitt vote for impeachment?

Waco1947 said:

---

fubar said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Through all the scandals, impeachments, Jan 6th call to riot, and overturn the election and indictments the RINOs have protected Trump. RINOs fear his base and will not get a backbone. I look at Barr, Cornyn and Romney and think what happened to their moral compasses. What happened to all those RINOs that T vilified and will vilify in the primaries.
They cannot have it both ways and defend T and yet hold themselves as something different.

Politics or not Trump is indicted for breaking the law and should and should have his day in court to prove his innocence, but he cannot be allowed to destroy confidence in our legal system as the Trump apologists here on this board seek to do.

I hear this stupidity of a defense for Trump from too many unthinking people. I think independents, women, young people, African Americans, and democrats will once again defeat him and T's shirttails bring the downfall of many a Republican candidates.

RINOs support T at your peril.

---

Why are you singling out Mitt Romney? He's the one GOP Senator who has consistently voiced opposition when Trump went beyond the pale.

---

Did Mitt vote for impeachment?

---

He voted to convict on one of the two charges of the first impeachment, the only Republican who did even that. He voted to convict on the second impeachment.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

quash said:

---

"This was not just extreme carelessness with classified material, which is still totally disqualifying. This is calculated, deliberate, premeditated misconduct followed by a cover up. No one will be above the law."

---

Hillary Clinton laughs at this statement

So do the Bidens for that matter.


No doubt Trump is scum and probably belongs in jail, as do some of the other
politicians running around free.

Does this mean we can finally move past Trump as a candidate. I sure hope the
GOP isn't stupid enough to nominate him again, if he somehow avoids jail.

---

Wait, remember they were doing this to guarantee trump was the candidate as he is east to beat. They can't even remember the nonsense they convinced themselves of the day before.

Is trump dead in prison yet? Just checking in on this topic. Lots of mental masturbation in here by vaxxing pee pee dossier Putin elected trump believing plebes

Fre3dombear said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

quash said:

---

"This was not just extreme carelessness with classified material, which is still totally disqualifying. This is calculated, deliberate, premeditated misconduct followed by a cover up. No one will be above the law."

---

Hillary Clinton laughs at this statement

So do the Bidens for that matter.


No doubt Trump is scum and probably belongs in jail, as do some of the other
politicians running around free.

Does this mean we can finally move past Trump as a candidate. I sure hope the
GOP isn't stupid enough to nominate him again, if he somehow avoids jail.

---

Wait, remember they were doing this to guarantee trump was the candidate as he is east to beat. They can't even remember the nonsense they convinced themselves of the day before.

Is trump dead in prison yet? Just checking in on this topic. Lots of mental masturbation in here by vaxxing pee pee dossier Putin elected trump believing plebes

---

You guys are the ones blabbing on about the Dems wanting Trump so badly.

Might want to get out of the echo chamber once in awhile.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Barr's picked up a lot of fans here. Wonder if they will get Team Barr jackets or just patches for their sleeves?

---

It's nothing compared to the fans Trump has got. Trump had people who claim to hate him pledging to vote for him years in advance! Barry just stating the obvious. I heard "honorable" mentioned. My how the accolades flow when the obvious is stated.

---

So you got the XXL size Barr jacket.

---

I don't wear XXL, but I'll be sure to sew my democracy patch, constitution patch, Memorial Day patch Veterans Day patch and Independence Day patch onto my Barr jacket.

---

They will clash with your Gay Pride and Trans Kids Surgery Rights rockers.

---

If I had some. You seem to be fixated on Gay and Trans issues. You having some latent tendencies old bear?

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Barr's picked up a lot of fans here. Wonder if they will get Team Barr jackets or just patches for their sleeves?

---

It's nothing compared to the fans Trump has got. Trump had people who claim to hate him pledging to vote for him years in advance! Barry just stating the obvious. I heard "honorable" mentioned. My how the accolades flow when the obvious is stated.

---

So you got the XXL size Barr jacket.

---

I don't wear XXL, but I'll be sure to sew my democracy patch, constitution patch, Memorial Day patch Veterans Day patch and Independence Day patch onto my Barr jacket.

---

They will clash with your Gay Pride and Trans Kids Surgery Rights rockers.

---

If I had some. You seem to be fixated on Gay and Trans issues. You having some latent tendencies old bear?

---

Nope, just observant of trends on your side of the aisle, TS.

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Barr's picked up a lot of fans here. Wonder if they will get Team Barr jackets or just patches for their sleeves?

---

What do you have for Team Trump? One thing Donald does well is market. Barr should defer on the marketing side to Trump, he is the Barnum of our time.

---

Weak sauce pal. I'm on team Cruz, but your spittle and venom are noted.

---

You are the one that keeps attacking ANYONE that believes the Government had the right to indict. "Barr's picked up a lot of fans here. Wonder if they will get Team Barr jackets or just patches for their sleeves?" Note the quotation marks, they are yours. I am a counterpuncher (thought you would appreciate that...)

Weak? Actually, it was pretty good.

---

Most people enjoy their own cooking.

And I'm just the Diogenes of the board, the annoying jerk who happens to be right.

---

Or, just the jerk who is often wrong but never in doubt.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Barr's picked up a lot of fans here. Wonder if they will get Team Barr jackets or just patches for their sleeves?

---

What do you have for Team Trump? One thing Donald does well is market. Barr should defer on the marketing side to Trump, he is the Barnum of our time.

---

Weak sauce pal. I'm on team Cruz, but your spittle and venom are noted.

---

You are the one that keeps attacking ANYONE that believes the Government had the right to indict. "Barr's picked up a lot of fans here. Wonder if they will get Team Barr jackets or just patches for their sleeves?" Note the quotation marks, they are yours. I am a counterpuncher (thought you would appreciate that...)

Weak? Actually, it was pretty good.

---

Most people enjoy their own cooking.

And I'm just the Diogenes of the board, the annoying jerk who happens to be right.

---

Or, just the jerk who is often wrong but never in doubt.

---

You have that part backwards, actually.

JXL said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Trump's Former AG Bill Barr Lowers the Boom in Stunning Analysis on Fox News Sunday: 'If Even Half of it is True, He is Toast'

By Joe DePaoloJun 11th, 2023,

https://www.mediaite.com/news/trumps-former-ag-bill-barr-lowers-the-boom-in-stunning-analysis-on-fox-news-sunday-if-even-half-of-it-is-true-he-is-toast/

Former President Donald Trump's Attorney General, Bill Barr, believes his old boss is in very serious trouble if "even half" of what is laid out in the 37-count federal indictment against him is true.

In a stunning analysis of the former president's legal peril on Fox News Sunday, Barr cited and concurred with the assessment of Fox News legal contributor Andy McCarthy.
"If even half of it is true, he is toast," Barr said. "I mean, it's a very detailed indictment, and it's very, very damning."

Barr went on to take a flamethrower to Trump's claims that he is being politically persecuted.
"This idea of presenting Trump as a victim here or a victim of a witch hunt is ridiculous," Barr said. "Yes, he's been a victim in the past. His adversaries have obsessively pursued him with phony claims. And I've been at his side defending against them when he is a victim. But this is much different. He's not a victim here. He was totally wrong that he had the right to have those documents. Those documents are among the most sensitive secrets that the country has. They have to be in the custody of the archivist. He had no right to maintain them and retain them."

The former attorney general acknowledged there has been bad blood between him and his old boss. But he cited other instances where he has supported Trump to make clear he views this case as a completely different animal.
"He's been angry with me for a while," Barr said. "But you know, I defended the president on on Russia-gate. I stood up and called out (Manhattan District Attorney) Alvin Bragg's politicized hit job. And I have spoken out for 30 years about the abuse of the criminal justice process to influence politics. But this is simply not true. This particular episode of trying to retrieve those documents, the government acted responsibly. and it was Donald Trump who acted irresponsibly."

---

Since you are voicing agreement with Barr, I assume you also agree with his statement that "Yes, he's been a victim in the past. His adversaries have obsessively pursued him with phony claims."

---

I agree with some of that. I also believe Trump brought a lot of his problems upon himself by his behavior, and I suspect Barr would agree with that. I also believe that Trump is a bad actor, a malignant narcissist, dangerous to our country, and would become an autocrat given half the chance.

Mothra said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

A former president is going to die in prison.

GOP is going to push abortion and lose to Biden who we're letting get away with a $5M pay to play bribery scheme.

Great job America! We deserve everything coming our way.

---

It wouldn't bother me in the least if Trump dies in prison. His own actions are the cause of his undoing. If he had been able to behave like a decent human being, he wouldn't be here. In short, he made his own bed.

I wouldn't be so sure on Biden beating DeSantis in 2024. That's a fight I think the Republicans win.

---

DeSantis is toast if he continues to play up to the Confederacy and ignore the swing voters. Sadly so far his campaign has been about as bad as possible.

---

Play up the confederacy? Please.

I am sure you would like a milquetoast Republican in name only as the nominee. It's not happening. That is a sure fire way to lose the election. People who want that can just vote Democrat.

Romneys and McCains don't win elections, Alice. The way to win the election is not to chase the likes of you.

---

Actually this is precisely the type of election Romney or McCain would win. Imagine either debating Biden. DeSantis will only lose if he comes across as extremist, which he will have to watch out for. Many media outlets will paint him as a younger Trump.

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

A former president is going to die in prison.

GOP is going to push abortion and lose to Biden who we're letting get away with a $5M pay to play bribery scheme.

Great job America! We deserve everything coming our way.

---

It wouldn't bother me in the least if Trump dies in prison. His own actions are the cause of his undoing. If he had been able to behave like a decent human being, he wouldn't be here. In short, he made his own bed.

I wouldn't be so sure on Biden beating DeSantis in 2024. That's a fight I think the Republicans win.

---

DeSantis is toast if he continues to play up to the Confederacy and ignore the swing voters. Sadly so far his campaign has been about as bad as possible.

---

Play up the confederacy? Please.

I am sure you would like a milquetoast Republican in name only as the nominee. It's not happening. That is a sure fire way to lose the election. People who want that can just vote Democrat.

Romneys and McCains don't win elections, Alice. The way to win the election is not to chase the likes of you.

---

Actually this is precisely the type of election Romney or McCain would win. Imagine either debating Biden. DeSantis will only lose if he comes across as extremist, which he will have to watch out for. Many media outlets will paint him as a younger Trump.

---

McCain/Lieberman would have worked this election cycle.

Desantis for prez

Funny how people forget the basics.

2016, 2020 and 2024 have one thing in common:

Winning the Suburban Woman vote is the key to winning the White House.

Somehow Hillary missed that in 2016, and Trump missed it in 2020.

And a whole lot of people are missing it now.

U.S. presidency is no country for old men. Biden and Trump are prime proof.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Funny how people forget the basics.

2016, 2020 and 2024 have one thing in common:

Winning the Suburban Woman vote is the key to winning the White House.

Somehow Hillary missed that in 2016, and Trump missed it in 2020.

And a whole lot of people are missing it now.

---

And you think Trump is the Suburban women choice???

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

quash said:

---

"This was not just extreme carelessness with classified material, which is still totally disqualifying. This is calculated, deliberate, premeditated misconduct followed by a cover up. No one will be above the law."

---

Hillary Clinton laughs at this statement

So do the Bidens for that matter.


No doubt Trump is scum and probably belongs in jail, as do some of the other
politicians running around free.

Does this mean we can finally move past Trump as a candidate. I sure hope the
GOP isn't stupid enough to nominate him again, if he somehow avoids jail.

---

They will and the same people will vote for him.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

quash said:

---

"This was not just extreme carelessness with classified material, which is still totally disqualifying. This is calculated, deliberate, premeditated misconduct followed by a cover up. No one will be above the law."

---

Hillary Clinton laughs at this statement

So do the Bidens for that matter.


No doubt Trump is scum and probably belongs in jail, as do some of the other
politicians running around free.

Does this mean we can finally move past Trump as a candidate. I sure hope the
GOP isn't stupid enough to nominate him again, if he somehow avoids jail.

---

They will and the same people will vote for him.

---

And it's understandable that conservatives will hold their nose and vote for him if he's the nominee when the only other viable option is Biden. 8 years of open borders, out of control spending and war with Russia might actually destroy the country.

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

A former president is going to die in prison.

GOP is going to push abortion and lose to Biden who we're letting get away with a $5M pay to play bribery scheme.

Great job America! We deserve everything coming our way.

---

It wouldn't bother me in the least if Trump dies in prison. His own actions are the cause of his undoing. If he had been able to behave like a decent human being, he wouldn't be here. In short, he made his own bed.

I wouldn't be so sure on Biden beating DeSantis in 2024. That's a fight I think the Republicans win.

---

DeSantis is toast if he continues to play up to the Confederacy and ignore the swing voters. Sadly so far his campaign has been about as bad as possible.

---

Play up the confederacy? Please.

I am sure you would like a milquetoast Republican in name only as the nominee. It's not happening. That is a sure fire way to lose the election. People who want that can just vote Democrat.

Romneys and McCains don't win elections, Alice. The way to win the election is not to chase the likes of you.

---

Actually this is precisely the type of election Romney or McCain would win. Imagine either debating Biden. DeSantis will only lose if he comes across as extremist, which he will have to watch out for. Many media outlets will paint him as a younger Trump.

---

I wouldn't normally agree, but you're right. Generic Republicans have consistently outpolled Trump, particularly in key areas.

#SweetDonnyBaby

- kkm

{ sipping coffee }

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Funny how people forget the basics.

2016, 2020 and 2024 have one thing in common:

Winning the Suburban Woman vote is the key to winning the White House.

Somehow Hillary missed that in 2016, and Trump missed it in 2020.

And a whole lot of people are missing it now.

---

And you think Trump is the Suburban women choice???

---

Not likely.

Question is, who is making the best effort to win that vote?

Your question is the key to winning the election and so far, unfortunately, the answer is the shell of a man that use to be Joe Biden.

sombear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

A former president is going to die in prison.

GOP is going to push abortion and lose to Biden who we're letting get away with a $5M pay to play bribery scheme.

Great job America! We deserve everything coming our way.

---

It wouldn't bother me in the least if Trump dies in prison. His own actions are the cause of his undoing. If he had been able to behave like a decent human being, he wouldn't be here. In short, he made his own bed.

I wouldn't be so sure on Biden beating DeSantis in 2024. That's a fight I think the Republicans win.

---

DeSantis is toast if he continues to play up to the Confederacy and ignore the swing voters. Sadly so far his campaign has been about as bad as possible.

---

Play up the confederacy? Please.

I am sure you would like a milquetoast Republican in name only as the nominee. It's not happening. That is a sure fire way to lose the election. People who want that can just vote Democrat.

Romneys and McCains don't win elections, Alice. The way to win the election is not to chase the likes of you.

---

Actually this is precisely the type of election Romney or McCain would win. Imagine either debating Biden. DeSantis will only lose if he comes across as extremist, which he will have to watch out for. Many media outlets will paint him as a younger Trump.

---

I wouldn't normally agree, but you're right. Generic Republicans have consistently outpolled Trump, particularly in key areas.

---

But the question is, how many of those Trump supporters would vote generic Republican?

Moderates typically don't excite the base, and that's the reason the turnout when the McCains and the Romneys of the world run for president isn't very good.

It's a double edged sword. You need someone who will excite the base, while at the same time appealing to independents and moderates.

Waco1947 said:

---

Through all the scandals, impeachments, Jan 6th call to riot, and overturn the election and indictments the RINOs have protected Trump. RINOs fear his base and will not get a backbone. I look at Barr, Cornyn and Romney and think what happened to their moral compasses. What happened to all those RINOs that T vilified and will vilify in the primaries.
They cannot have it both ways and defend T and yet hold themselves as something different.

Politics or not Trump is indicted for breaking the law and should and should have his day in court to prove his innocence, but he cannot be allowed to destroy confidence in our legal system as the Trump apologists here on this board seek to do.

I hear this stupidity of a defense for Trump from too many unthinking people. I think independents, women, young people, African Americans, and democrats will once again defeat him and T's shirttails bring the downfall of many a Republican candidates.

RINOs support T at your peril.

---

Waco what is going on man.

This is clueless.

1) Romney has been Trumps #1 republican detractor all along, he even voted to impeach him.
2) There was no call to riot. I was sick Jan 6th and watched the rally as it unfolded. He even said peacefully and some point. No doubt idiots rioted, that is on them. They were simply using Trump as an excuse to do it.
3) If Trump is guilty he should go to jail. Some other who have evidence of guilty such as Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden should share his cell.
4) YOU calling people unthinking?? That is calling the kettle black.
5) I have never supported Trump, even the one time I voted for him I voted against him in the primary as I didn't want him nominated.

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Funny how people forget the basics.

2016, 2020 and 2024 have one thing in common:

Winning the Suburban Woman vote is the key to winning the White House.

Somehow Hillary missed that in 2016, and Trump missed it in 2020.

And a whole lot of people are missing it now.

---

And you think Trump is the Suburban women choice???

---

Not likely.

Question is, who is making the best effort to win that vote?

---

Right now on the GOP, I think Haley and Christie actually made headway.

RDS, it depends on if he goes back to reminding people he is fighting the "woke" crowd to protect kids. He seems to be forgetting that.

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

A former president is going to die in prison.

GOP is going to push abortion and lose to Biden who we're letting get away with a $5M pay to play bribery scheme.

Great job America! We deserve everything coming our way.

---

It wouldn't bother me in the least if Trump dies in prison. His own actions are the cause of his undoing. If he had been able to behave like a decent human being, he wouldn't be here. In short, he made his own bed.

I wouldn't be so sure on Biden beating DeSantis in 2024. That's a fight I think the Republicans win.

---

DeSantis is toast if he continues to play up to the Confederacy and ignore the swing voters. Sadly so far his campaign has been about as bad as possible.

---

Play up the confederacy? Please.

I am sure you would like a milquetoast Republican in name only as the nominee. It's not happening. That is a sure fire way to lose the election. People who want that can just vote Democrat.

Romneys and McCains don't win elections, Alice. The way to win the election is not to chase the likes of you.

---

Actually this is precisely the type of election Romney or McCain would win. Imagine either debating Biden. DeSantis will only lose if he comes across as extremist, which he will have to watch out for. Many media outlets will paint him as a younger Trump.

---

I wouldn't normally agree, but you're right. Generic Republicans have consistently outpolled Trump, particularly in key areas.

---

But the question is, how many of those Trump supporters would vote generic Republican?

Moderates typically don't excite the base, and that's the reason the turnout when the McCains and the Romneys of the world run for president isn't very good.

It's a double edged sword. You need someone who will excite the base, while at the same time appealing to independents and moderates.

---

In fairness, in McCain's case, Bush-fatigue was going to defeat any GOP candidate, and Romney ran against an incumbent, who, like him or not, was an historic figure. No Republican was going to win either of those races in my opinion. Of course, it didn't help that both ran bad campaigns also.

Also, McCain's and Romney's base turnout numbers actually were not bad.

All that said, I totally agree you need to excite your base.

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

A former president is going to die in prison.

GOP is going to push abortion and lose to Biden who we're letting get away with a $5M pay to play bribery scheme.

Great job America! We deserve everything coming our way.

---

It wouldn't bother me in the least if Trump dies in prison. His own actions are the cause of his undoing. If he had been able to behave like a decent human being, he wouldn't be here. In short, he made his own bed.

I wouldn't be so sure on Biden beating DeSantis in 2024. That's a fight I think the Republicans win.

---

DeSantis is toast if he continues to play up to the Confederacy and ignore the swing voters. Sadly so far his campaign has been about as bad as possible.

---

Play up the confederacy? Please.

I am sure you would like a milquetoast Republican in name only as the nominee. It's not happening. That is a sure fire way to lose the election. People who want that can just vote Democrat.

Romneys and McCains don't win elections, Alice. The way to win the election is not to chase the likes of you.

---

Actually this is precisely the type of election Romney or McCain would win. Imagine either debating Biden. DeSantis will only lose if he comes across as extremist, which he will have to watch out for. Many media outlets will paint him as a younger Trump.

---

I wouldn't normally agree, but you're right. Generic Republicans have consistently outpolled Trump, particularly in key areas.

---

But the question is, how many of those Trump supporters would vote generic Republican?

Moderates typically don't excite the base, and that's the reason the turnout when the McCains and the Romneys of the world run for president isn't very good.

It's a double edged sword. You need someone who will excite the base, while at the same time appealing to independents and moderates.

---

In fairness, in McCain's case, Bush-fatigue was going to defeat any GOP candidate, and Romney ran against an incumbent, who, like him or not, was an historic figure. No Republican was going to win either of those races in my opinion. Of course, it didn't help that both ran bad campaigns also.

Also, McCain's and Romney's base turnout numbers actually were not bad.

All that said, I totally agree you need to excite your base.

---

We need to excite the GOP base and NOT excite the Dem base. If Dems are motivated tough for GOP to win, need 1/3 of all IND just to get to even.

FLBear5630 said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

A former president is going to die in prison.

GOP is going to push abortion and lose to Biden who we're letting get away with a $5M pay to play bribery scheme.

Great job America! We deserve everything coming our way.

---

It wouldn't bother me in the least if Trump dies in prison. His own actions are the cause of his undoing. If he had been able to behave like a decent human being, he wouldn't be here. In short, he made his own bed.

I wouldn't be so sure on Biden beating DeSantis in 2024. That's a fight I think the Republicans win.

---

DeSantis is toast if he continues to play up to the Confederacy and ignore the swing voters. Sadly so far his campaign has been about as bad as possible.

---

Play up the confederacy? Please.

I am sure you would like a milquetoast Republican in name only as the nominee. It's not happening. That is a sure fire way to lose the election. People who want that can just vote Democrat.

Romneys and McCains don't win elections, Alice. The way to win the election is not to chase the likes of you.

---

Actually this is precisely the type of election Romney or McCain would win. Imagine either debating Biden. DeSantis will only lose if he comes across as extremist, which he will have to watch out for. Many media outlets will paint him as a younger Trump.

---

I wouldn't normally agree, but you're right. Generic Republicans have consistently outpolled Trump, particularly in key areas.

---

But the question is, how many of those Trump supporters would vote generic Republican?

Moderates typically don't excite the base, and that's the reason the turnout when the McCains and the Romneys of the world run for president isn't very good.

It's a double edged sword. You need someone who will excite the base, while at the same time appealing to independents and moderates.

---

In fairness, in McCain's case, Bush-fatigue was going to defeat any GOP candidate, and Romney ran against an incumbent, who, like him or not, was an historic figure. No Republican was going to win either of those races in my opinion. Of course, it didn't help that both ran bad campaigns also.

Also, McCain's and Romney's base turnout numbers actually were not bad.

All that said, I totally agree you need to excite your base.

---

We need to excite the GOP base and NOT excite the Dem base. If Dems are motivated tough for GOP to win, need 1/3 of all IND just to get to even.

---

Correct. motivating base means nothing when you've created a larger opponent base due solely to your candidate.

Mothra said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

GWB was rather milquetoast and won. We have to win moderates and quit antaginizing them like we do each other here lol.

You and I both know race is a huge factor in the popularity of Trump.

I registered as a Democrat for the first time in my seven decades this year just because I wanted to vote against evil in our local elections. So far it hasn't worked as the near socialists running Harris County and the City of Houston just do not have moderate opponents.

I will return to the Republican party in 2024 unless they nominate Trump. If they do I'll just back some Libertarians.

---

Sorry, but I am calling horse **** on the race narrative. I don't think race has anything at all to do with Trump's popularity. There are a number of reasons Trump won in 2016, and remains popular with base. Race is really far down the list.

Let's dispense with the Democrat tropes and talking points, and not label everything as racist, ok?

What do you mean vote against evil? Not sure what you're saying. You registered Dem because you wanted to vote against Democrat candidates who were too far left? Did you vote Biden?

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Racist?

Hispanic judge

In 2013, the State of New York filed a $40 million civil suit against Trump University alleging that the company had made false statements and defrauded consumers. Two class-action civil lawsuits were also filed naming Trump personally as well as his companies. During the presidential campaign, Trump criticized Judge Gonzalo P. Curiel who oversaw those two cases, alleging bias in his rulings because he is "a Mexican judge. He's of Mexican heritage." Although his parents immigrated from Mexico, Judge Curiel is an American citizen, born in East Chicago, Indiana. Trump said that Curiel would have "an absolute conflict" due to his Mexican heritage which led to accusations of racism] Speaker of the House and a Trump supporter, Republican Paul Ryan commented, "I disavow these comments. Claiming a person can't do the job because of their race is sort of like the textbook definition of a racist comment. I think that should be absolutely disavowed. It's absolutely unacceptable.


Hate crime



In August 2016 Trump campaigned in Maine, which has a large immigrant Somali population. At a rally he said, "We've just seen many, many crimes getting worse all the time, and as Maine knowsa major destination for Somali refugeesright, am I right?" Trump also alluded to risks of terrorism, referring to an incident in June 2016 when three young Somali men were found guilty of planning to join the Islamic State in Syria.

In Lewiston, home to the largest population of Maine Somalis, the police chief said Somalis have integrated into the city and they have not caused an increase in crime; crime is actually going down, not up. The mayor said Lewiston is safe and they all get along. At a Somali support rally following Trump's comments the Portland mayor welcomed the city's Somali residents, saying, "We need you here." Maine Republican US senator Susan Collins commented, "Mr. Trump's statements disparaging immigrants who have come to this country legally are particularly unhelpful. Maine has benefited from people from Europe, the Middle East, Asia, and, increasingly, Africa including our friends from Somalia.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Mothra said:

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Aliceinbubbleland said:

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GWB was rather milquetoast and won. We have to win moderates and quit antaginizing them like we do each other here lol.

You and I both know race is a huge factor in the popularity of Trump.

I registered as a Democrat for the first time in my seven decades this year just because I wanted to vote against evil in our local elections. So far it hasn't worked as the near socialists running Harris County and the City of Houston just do not have moderate opponents.

I will return to the Republican party in 2024 unless they nominate Trump. If they do I'll just back some Libertarians.

---

Sorry, but I am calling horse **** on the race narrative. I don't think race has anything at all to do with Trump's popularity. There are a number of reasons Trump won in 2016, and remains popular with base. Race is really far down the list.

Let's dispense with the Democrat tropes and talking points, and not label everything as racist, ok?

What do you mean vote against evil? Not sure what you're saying. You registered Dem because you wanted to vote against Democrat candidates who were too far left? Did you vote Biden?

---

Racist?

Hispanic judge

In 2013, the State of New York filed a $40 million civil suit against Trump University alleging that the company had made false statements and defrauded consumers. Two class-action civil lawsuits were also filed naming Trump personally as well as his companies. During the presidential campaign, Trump criticized Judge Gonzalo P. Curiel who oversaw those two cases, alleging bias in his rulings because he is "a Mexican judge. He's of Mexican heritage." Although his parents immigrated from Mexico, Judge Curiel is an American citizen, born in East Chicago, Indiana. Trump said that Curiel would have "an absolute conflict" due to his Mexican heritage which led to accusations of racism] Speaker of the House and a Trump supporter, Republican Paul Ryan commented, "I disavow these comments. Claiming a person can't do the job because of their race is sort of like the textbook definition of a racist comment. I think that should be absolutely disavowed. It's absolutely unacceptable.


Hate crime



In August 2016 Trump campaigned in Maine, which has a large immigrant Somali population. At a rally he said, "We've just seen many, many crimes getting worse all the time, and as Maine knowsa major destination for Somali refugeesright, am I right?" Trump also alluded to risks of terrorism, referring to an incident in June 2016 when three young Somali men were found guilty of planning to join the Islamic State in Syria.

In Lewiston, home to the largest population of Maine Somalis, the police chief said Somalis have integrated into the city and they have not caused an increase in crime; crime is actually going down, not up. The mayor said Lewiston is safe and they all get along. At a Somali support rally following Trump's comments the Portland mayor welcomed the city's Somali residents, saying, "We need you here." Maine Republican US senator Susan Collins commented, "Mr. Trump's statements disparaging immigrants who have come to this country legally are particularly unhelpful. Maine has benefited from people from Europe, the Middle East, Asia, and, increasingly, Africa including our friends from Somalia.

---

So, in your mind this proves Trump's supporters are racist?

Weird.

Mothra said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

GWB was rather milquetoast and won. We have to win moderates and quit antaginizing them like we do each other here lol.

You and I both know race is a huge factor in the popularity of Trump.

I registered as a Democrat for the first time in my seven decades this year just because I wanted to vote against evil in our local elections. So far it hasn't worked as the near socialists running Harris County and the City of Houston just do not have moderate opponents.

I will return to the Republican party in 2024 unless they nominate Trump. If they do I'll just back some Libertarians.

---

Sorry, but I am calling horse **** on the race narrative. I don't think race has anything at all to do with Trump's popularity. There are a number of reasons Trump won in 2016, and remains popular with base. Race is really far down the list.

Let's dispense with the Democrat tropes and talking points, and not label everything as racist, ok?

What do you mean vote against evil? Not sure what you're saying. You registered Dem because you wanted to vote against Democrat candidates who were too far left? Did you vote Biden?

---

Racist?

Hispanic judge

In 2013, the State of New York filed a $40 million civil suit against Trump University alleging that the company had made false statements and defrauded consumers. Two class-action civil lawsuits were also filed naming Trump personally as well as his companies. During the presidential campaign, Trump criticized Judge Gonzalo P. Curiel who oversaw those two cases, alleging bias in his rulings because he is "a Mexican judge. He's of Mexican heritage." Although his parents immigrated from Mexico, Judge Curiel is an American citizen, born in East Chicago, Indiana. Trump said that Curiel would have "an absolute conflict" due to his Mexican heritage which led to accusations of racism] Speaker of the House and a Trump supporter, Republican Paul Ryan commented, "I disavow these comments. Claiming a person can't do the job because of their race is sort of like the textbook definition of a racist comment. I think that should be absolutely disavowed. It's absolutely unacceptable.


Hate crime



In August 2016 Trump campaigned in Maine, which has a large immigrant Somali population. At a rally he said, "We've just seen many, many crimes getting worse all the time, and as Maine knowsa major destination for Somali refugeesright, am I right?" Trump also alluded to risks of terrorism, referring to an incident in June 2016 when three young Somali men were found guilty of planning to join the Islamic State in Syria.

In Lewiston, home to the largest population of Maine Somalis, the police chief said Somalis have integrated into the city and they have not caused an increase in crime; crime is actually going down, not up. The mayor said Lewiston is safe and they all get along. At a Somali support rally following Trump's comments the Portland mayor welcomed the city's Somali residents, saying, "We need you here." Maine Republican US senator Susan Collins commented, "Mr. Trump's statements disparaging immigrants who have come to this country legally are particularly unhelpful. Maine has benefited from people from Europe, the Middle East, Asia, and, increasingly, Africa including our friends from Somalia.

---

So, in your mind this proves Trump's supporters are racist?

Weird.

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Impaired

Forest Bueller_bf said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Through all the scandals, impeachments, Jan 6th call to riot, and overturn the election and indictments the RINOs have protected Trump. RINOs fear his base and will not get a backbone. I look at Barr, Cornyn and Romney and think what happened to their moral compasses. What happened to all those RINOs that T vilified and will vilify in the primaries.
They cannot have it both ways and defend T and yet hold themselves as something different.

Politics or not Trump is indicted for breaking the law and should and should have his day in court to prove his innocence, but he cannot be allowed to destroy confidence in our legal system as the Trump apologists here on this board seek to do.

I hear this stupidity of a defense for Trump from too many unthinking people. I think independents, women, young people, African Americans, and democrats will once again defeat him and T's shirttails bring the downfall of many a Republican candidates.

RINOs support T at your peril.

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Waco what is going on man.

This is clueless.

1) Romney has been Trumps #1 republican detractor all along, he even voted to impeach him. All the other RINO senators let him get away with the charges of the impeachment. They never had a backbone and were too afraid of his base.
2) There was no call to riot. I was sick Jan 6th and watched the rally as it unfolded. He even said peacefully and some point. No doubt idiots rioted, that is on them. They were simply using Trump as an excuse to do it. Trump called those idiots together specially so he could rile them up. Yeah it was a riot and not peaceful. I know what my eyes saw. 1,000 indicted
3) If Trump is guilty he should go to jail. Some other who have evidence of guilty such as Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden should share his cell. True is Biden and Hillary are guilty. The GOP had two years of control of the senate and the house. Where is the evidence? Where was the DOJ?
4) YOU calling people unthinking?? That is calling the kettle black. Maybe so but my list will prevail because they see monster in T.
5) I have never supported Trump, even the one time I voted for him I voted against him in the primary as I didn't want him nominated.

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Wrecks Quan Dough said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Barr went on to take a flamethrower to Trump's claims that he is being politically persecuted.

"This idea of presenting Trump as a victim here or a victim of a witch hunt is ridiculous," Barr said. "Yes, he's been a victim in the past. His adversaries have obsessively pursued him with phony claims. And I've been at his side defending against them when he is a victim. But this is much different. He's not a victim here. He was totally wrong that he had the right to have those documents. Those documents are among the most sensitive secrets that the country has. They have to be in the custody of the archivist. He had no right to maintain them and retain them."

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Cannot wait to find out what information was in these documents. The government will have to talk about the information if it goes to trial. The world will find out. Are we really going to do this as a country? As a government?

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Nothing a motion in limine can't fix, happens all the time.

quash said:

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Wrecks Quan Dough said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Barr went on to take a flamethrower to Trump's claims that he is being politically persecuted.

"This idea of presenting Trump as a victim here or a victim of a witch hunt is ridiculous," Barr said. "Yes, he's been a victim in the past. His adversaries have obsessively pursued him with phony claims. And I've been at his side defending against them when he is a victim. But this is much different. He's not a victim here. He was totally wrong that he had the right to have those documents. Those documents are among the most sensitive secrets that the country has. They have to be in the custody of the archivist. He had no right to maintain them and retain them."

---

Cannot wait to find out what information was in these documents. The government will have to talk about the information if it goes to trial. The world will find out. Are we really going to do this as a country? As a government?

---

Nothing a motion in limine can't fix, happens all the time.

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Go read some articles on how these cases are tried. They are going to be talking about these documents in front of a jury.

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

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quash said:

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Wrecks Quan Dough said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Barr went on to take a flamethrower to Trump's claims that he is being politically persecuted.

"This idea of presenting Trump as a victim here or a victim of a witch hunt is ridiculous," Barr said. "Yes, he's been a victim in the past. His adversaries have obsessively pursued him with phony claims. And I've been at his side defending against them when he is a victim. But this is much different. He's not a victim here. He was totally wrong that he had the right to have those documents. Those documents are among the most sensitive secrets that the country has. They have to be in the custody of the archivist. He had no right to maintain them and retain them."

---

Cannot wait to find out what information was in these documents. The government will have to talk about the information if it goes to trial. The world will find out. Are we really going to do this as a country? As a government?

---

Nothing a motion in limine can't fix, happens all the time.

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Go read some articles on how these cases are tried. They are going to be talking about these documents in front of a jury.

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1. Trump talked about these documents to political operatives, but we can'[t tell a jury?
2. Remember, Trump declassified all of these documents by virtue of taking them. If they are declassified, what harm is there in showing to a jury? If they are top secret, why are they stored in a ballroom and a bathroom?
3. He also declassified all of the docs in his mind and just forgot to tell anyone. Let's tell a jury

4. Or the prosecution selected the least harmful of the Trump docs.