RFK Jr

17,623 Views | 184 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Doc Holliday
Fre3dombear
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Most nobody disputes how blacks were disproportionately affected. One could debate why. They were also the group most ethnically vax resistant and again the reasons could be discussed

But democrats are anti science and largely an incurious lot prone to generations of not asking questions and accepting and doing as told.
whiterock
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TWD 1974 said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

TWD 1974 said:

HuMcK said:


"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." RFK JR just showed us he is a complete, whacked out nut job, but he could still be Trump's next running mate...


Trump showed us who he is & I believe him
Except RFK Jr. is correct to note there is uncontentious science showing the virus is more virulent, more infectious and deadly, in some races than others. Is it really so strained to ask the question of whether not that is accidental, given that it is now widely accepted that CV leaked from a lab in China? A virus leaks from a lab in China and it just happens to affect Chinese less than others?

RFK Jr here indeed committed the same sin Trump does: he said the quiet part out loud.
And then, predictably, the left goes berserk.




1. I contend with your uncontentious science as I believe there is no such thing. Science is when you work to prove a hypothesis by eliminating possible variables to an experiment or data and withstanding challenges to your conclusions. Consequently, all real science is constantly contended and subject to review or correction. Where is the data to refute what JFK Jr said? (notably, I'm not seeing anyone contest the data he cited.)
2. Your statement on Covid and race is an example of statements in the press that have faild to make a full review of the information. The level of devastation of Covid, like all pandemics before it, has varied in place and time. African Americans were much more devastated by the disease than people on the African Continent, which would suggest other factors than race. It is estimated well over one million Chinese have died from the disease, so the Race targeted microbes seem to be a bit of a hit and miss operation. In my neck of the woods, the first outbreaks of Covid emanated from people attended a Jewish wedding. A million is a big number, but it is not helpful to your case if you recall that China has 1.4 billion people.
3. While it is much believed and talked about, it has not been proven there was a leak of Covid 19 from the lab in China. Also, later, fuller analysis of the Virus that was known to be stored in the Lab shows a degree of differentiation from the virus found in the population. Such variation is not likely to have been created in a lab, but evolved in nature over decades. This and other analysis have caused a number of Scientists who first suggested a Lab leak cause to reconsider or withdraw that possibility. You are a little behind on this. Even those who ardently criticized the lab-leak theory are now admitting there is evidence for it.
4. While we can all pick a Scientific position we like the best, in the end we have to ask ourselves is the hypothesis we are suggesting logical. In order for them to be plausible, how many leaps of imagination are needed. When we start to question suppositions, a deeper reading can lead to some disturbing conclusions. The allegation of a sinister alliance between China and Jews is antisemitism dressed up to pretend it is factual or "scientific."
RFK Jr. did not make an allegation of a sinister alliance. He merely noted the data as evidence of human manipulation of the virus. His critics seized the opportunity to built a straw man and attacked. That's what the left does - relentlessly make ad hominem attacks on anyone who questions leftist orthodoxy.
whiterock
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Fre3dombear said:

Most nobody disputes how blacks were disproportionately affected. One could debate why. They were also the group most ethnically vax resistant and again the reasons could be discussed

But democrats are anti science and largely an incurious lot prone to generations of not asking questions and accepting and doing as told.
...because the explanation HAS to be racism.
Sam Lowry
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whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

TWD 1974 said:

HuMcK said:


"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." RFK JR just showed us he is a complete, whacked out nut job, but he could still be Trump's next running mate...


Trump showed us who he is & I believe him
Except RFK Jr. is correct to note there is uncontentious science showing the virus is more virulent, more infectious and deadly, in some races than others.

Link?
whiterock
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Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

TWD 1974 said:

HuMcK said:


"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." RFK JR just showed us he is a complete, whacked out nut job, but he could still be Trump's next running mate...


Trump showed us who he is & I believe him
Except RFK Jr. is correct to note there is uncontentious science showing the virus is more virulent, more infectious and deadly, in some races than others.

Link?
Geez.

https://usafacts.org/articles/covid-19-death-data-shows-racial-disparities-during-the-pandemic/

All he did was use the word "targeted" in a way that suggested purpose, and then in the next sentence correct the context.

But then his critics spin.
And then the (insert nationality) interest groups feel duty bound to keep the comments from inciting negative PR about (insert nationality) when in fact that was clearly not the intent or even the effect of the comments. Such is quite corrosive to public debate.
Sam Lowry
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whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

TWD 1974 said:

HuMcK said:


"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." RFK JR just showed us he is a complete, whacked out nut job, but he could still be Trump's next running mate...


Trump showed us who he is & I believe him
Except RFK Jr. is correct to note there is uncontentious science showing the virus is more virulent, more infectious and deadly, in some races than others.

Link?
Geez.

https://usafacts.org/articles/covid-19-death-data-shows-racial-disparities-during-the-pandemic/

All he did was use the word "targeted" in a way that suggested purpose, and then in the next sentence correct the context.

But then his critics spin.
And then the (insert nationality) interest groups feel duty bound to keep the comments from inciting negative PR about (insert nationality) when in fact that was clearly not the intent or even the effect of the comments. Such is quite corrosive to public debate.

That doesn't show what you're claiming. See this article for example.
whiterock
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Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

TWD 1974 said:

HuMcK said:


"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." RFK JR just showed us he is a complete, whacked out nut job, but he could still be Trump's next running mate...


Trump showed us who he is & I believe him
Except RFK Jr. is correct to note there is uncontentious science showing the virus is more virulent, more infectious and deadly, in some races than others.

Link?
Geez.

https://usafacts.org/articles/covid-19-death-data-shows-racial-disparities-during-the-pandemic/

All he did was use the word "targeted" in a way that suggested purpose, and then in the next sentence correct the context.

But then his critics spin.
And then the (insert nationality) interest groups feel duty bound to keep the comments from inciting negative PR about (insert nationality) when in fact that was clearly not the intent or even the effect of the comments. Such is quite corrosive to public debate.

That doesn't show what you're claiming. See this article for example.
actually, it shows exactly what I stated. your article cites conflicting data, perhaps because it is 1 year older (missing an entire year of data) although I suspect there are other explanations.

Not that such is terribly germane to the larger point. There IS data to support RFK Jr's statement. It should be debated, not denounced as deplorable because it causes discomfort to the tender-minded.

Sam Lowry
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whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

TWD 1974 said:

HuMcK said:


"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." RFK JR just showed us he is a complete, whacked out nut job, but he could still be Trump's next running mate...


Trump showed us who he is & I believe him
Except RFK Jr. is correct to note there is uncontentious science showing the virus is more virulent, more infectious and deadly, in some races than others.

Link?
Geez.

https://usafacts.org/articles/covid-19-death-data-shows-racial-disparities-during-the-pandemic/

All he did was use the word "targeted" in a way that suggested purpose, and then in the next sentence correct the context.

But then his critics spin.
And then the (insert nationality) interest groups feel duty bound to keep the comments from inciting negative PR about (insert nationality) when in fact that was clearly not the intent or even the effect of the comments. Such is quite corrosive to public debate.

That doesn't show what you're claiming. See this article for example.
actually, it shows exactly what I stated. your article cites conflicting data, perhaps because it is 1 year older (missing an entire year of data) although I suspect there are other explanations.

Not that such is terribly germane to the larger point. There IS data to support RFK Jr's statement. It should be debated, not denounced as deplorable because it causes discomfort to the tender-minded.


It's not conflicting data, but yes, there is an obvious explanation.
whiterock
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Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

TWD 1974 said:

HuMcK said:


"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." RFK JR just showed us he is a complete, whacked out nut job, but he could still be Trump's next running mate...


Trump showed us who he is & I believe him
Except RFK Jr. is correct to note there is uncontentious science showing the virus is more virulent, more infectious and deadly, in some races than others.

Link?
Geez.

https://usafacts.org/articles/covid-19-death-data-shows-racial-disparities-during-the-pandemic/

All he did was use the word "targeted" in a way that suggested purpose, and then in the next sentence correct the context.

But then his critics spin.
And then the (insert nationality) interest groups feel duty bound to keep the comments from inciting negative PR about (insert nationality) when in fact that was clearly not the intent or even the effect of the comments. Such is quite corrosive to public debate.

That doesn't show what you're claiming. See this article for example.
actually, it shows exactly what I stated. your article cites conflicting data, perhaps because it is 1 year older (missing an entire year of data) although I suspect there are other explanations.

Not that such is terribly germane to the larger point. There IS data to support RFK Jr's statement. It should be debated, not denounced as deplorable because it causes discomfort to the tender-minded.


It's not conflicting data, but yes, there is an obvious explanation.
Well, we don't agree on that but perhaps we could stipulate that RFK Jr. is not deplorable just asking politically incorrect questions?
Sam Lowry
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whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

TWD 1974 said:

HuMcK said:


"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." RFK JR just showed us he is a complete, whacked out nut job, but he could still be Trump's next running mate...


Trump showed us who he is & I believe him
Except RFK Jr. is correct to note there is uncontentious science showing the virus is more virulent, more infectious and deadly, in some races than others.

Link?
Geez.

https://usafacts.org/articles/covid-19-death-data-shows-racial-disparities-during-the-pandemic/

All he did was use the word "targeted" in a way that suggested purpose, and then in the next sentence correct the context.

But then his critics spin.
And then the (insert nationality) interest groups feel duty bound to keep the comments from inciting negative PR about (insert nationality) when in fact that was clearly not the intent or even the effect of the comments. Such is quite corrosive to public debate.

That doesn't show what you're claiming. See this article for example.
actually, it shows exactly what I stated. your article cites conflicting data, perhaps because it is 1 year older (missing an entire year of data) although I suspect there are other explanations.

Not that such is terribly germane to the larger point. There IS data to support RFK Jr's statement. It should be debated, not denounced as deplorable because it causes discomfort to the tender-minded.


It's not conflicting data, but yes, there is an obvious explanation.
Well, we don't agree on that but perhaps we could stipulate that RFK Jr. is not deplorable just asking politically incorrect questions?
I agree with that, as long as questioning really means questioning and not making false claims. Deadliness, virulence, and infectiousness are three different metrics. I don't know of any studies showing that Covid is more virulent or infectious in some races than others, as RFK suggested. Your link shows that it was less deadly in the general Chinese-American population, which could mean it was less virulent, less infectious, or both. My link shows that it was more deadly in the infected Chinese-American population, which suggests that it was actually more virulent. Of course causal connections would have to be established in order to put any of this beyond contention.
TWD 1974
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whiterock said:

TWD 1974 said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

TWD 1974 said:

HuMcK said:


"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." RFK JR just showed us he is a complete, whacked out nut job, but he could still be Trump's next running mate...


Trump showed us who he is & I believe him
Except RFK Jr. is correct to note there is uncontentious science showing the virus is more virulent, more infectious and deadly, in some races than others. Is it really so strained to ask the question of whether not that is accidental, given that it is now widely accepted that CV leaked from a lab in China? A virus leaks from a lab in China and it just happens to affect Chinese less than others?

RFK Jr here indeed committed the same sin Trump does: he said the quiet part out loud.
And then, predictably, the left goes berserk.




Where is the data to refute what JFK Jr said? (notably, I'm not seeing anyone contest the data he cited.)
I have not seen what I consider remotely credible data that would support what RFK, Jr. said, as to JFK Jr., his death a few decades ago is a whole other conspiracy.
A million is a big number, but it is not helpful to your case if you recall that China has 1.4 billion people.
1 million deaths represents roughly 17% of the worlds estimated death toll from Covid. Remember also, we do not have full totals of deaths as several Totalitarian States, including China, have made strenuous effort to hide the real death totals.


3. While it is much believed and talked about, it has not been proven there was a leak of Covid 19 from the lab in China. Also, later, fuller analysis of the Virus that was known to be stored in the Lab shows a degree of differentiation from the virus found in the population. Such variation is not likely to have been created in a lab, but evolved in nature over decades. This and other analysis have caused a number of Scientists who first suggested a Lab leak cause to reconsider or withdraw that possibility. You are a little behind on this. Even those who ardently criticized the lab-leak theory are now admitting there is evidence for it.
Here is a link that discusses the controversy which is far from settled. Covid origin: Why the Wuhan lab-leak theory is so disputed - BBC News
4. While we can all pick a Scientific position we like the best, in the end we have to ask ourselves is the hypothesis we are suggesting logical. In order for them to be plausible, how many leaps of imagination are needed. When we start to question suppositions, a deeper reading can lead to some disturbing conclusions. The allegation of a sinister alliance between China and Jews is antisemitism dressed up to pretend it is factual or "scientific."
RFK Jr. did not make an allegation of a sinister alliance. He merely noted the data as evidence of human manipulation of the virus. His critics seized the opportunity to built a straw man and attacked. That's what the left does - relentlessly make ad hominem attacks on anyone who questions leftist orthodoxy.
I don't think RFK, Jr. is an evil guy, or necessarily racist. He is, I believe misguided, and as he becomes more and more desperate to prove his claims, he is susceptible to being manipulated by people with a whole different agenda. Make no mistake, when a person of prominence like RFK, Jr. speaks without thinking of the consequences about hidden microbes created to protect Chinese and Jews, he is putting innocent people at risk. Is it too much to ask of our Presidential candidates that they think before they speak?
“No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love Him.” 1 Corinthians 2:9
HuMcK
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Everyone seems to be ignoring the remarks about US bio-labs developing ethnicity targeting diseases in Ukraine, which should sound familiar because it is one of the lies Russia uses to justify their invasion of Ukraine.

Succession watchers will get the reference, but RFKjr is essentially Conner Roy. He's a crackpot who got where he was because of his last name and being born into wealth. Some Republicans are pretending to like him for now because they want a spoiler candidate to take votes from Biden, nothing more.
Mothra
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HuMcK said:

Everyone seems to be ignoring the remarks about US bio-labs developing ethnicity targeting diseases in Ukraine, which should sound familiar because it is one of the lies Russia uses to justify their invasion of Ukraine.

Succession watchers will get the reference, but RFKjr is essentially Conner Roy. He's a crackpot who got where he was because of his last name and being born into wealth. Some Republicans are pretending to like him for now because they want a spoiler candidate to take votes from Biden, nothing more.
Hilarious shot at RFK when Biden has lined his pocket for years on the govt. dime. Yes, that $9 million net worth is no doubt a result of hard work.
HuMcK
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Joe Biden was a US Senator for 30yrs, then VPOTUS. He left his Veep term with a net worth of $2.5m, not unusual at all for an upper middle class retirement-aged man, then a pretty routine (for former White House occupants) book deal got him to the level he's at now. A $9m net worth after all of that is honestly pretty modest.

The much more apt comparison would have been Hunter Biden, not Joe.
Mothra
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HuMcK said:

Joe Biden was a US Senator for 30yrs, then VPOTUS. He left his Veep term with a net worth of $2.5m, not unusual at all for an upper middle class retirement-aged man, then a pretty routine (for former White House occupants) book deal got him to the level he's at now. A $9m net worth after all of that is honestly pretty modest.

The much more apt comparison would have been Hunter Biden, not Joe.
So the $9 million is from a modest book deal. Interesting.

Yes, he was undoubtedly not paid anything and did not take part in any of the consulting work Hunter did that made him a millionaire several times over. No way, no how. Unlike Trump, Biden did it the hard way.

Just FYI, RFK is a pretty successful lawyer in his own right. He's won some large cases over the years. But sure, he's just nepo and everything Biden did is above board.

Truth is, for all of your complaints about Republicans liking RFK, you Dems hate RFK because he is a threat to a Democrat presidency.
TWD 1974
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Mothra said:

HuMcK said:

Joe Biden was a US Senator for 30yrs, then VPOTUS. He left his Veep term with a net worth of $2.5m, not unusual at all for an upper middle class retirement-aged man, then a pretty routine (for former White House occupants) book deal got him to the level he's at now. A $9m net worth after all of that is honestly pretty modest.

The much more apt comparison would have been Hunter Biden, not Joe.
So the $9 million is from a modest book deal. Interesting.

Yes, he was undoubtedly not paid anything and did not take part in any of the consulting work Hunter did that made him a millionaire several times over. No way, no how. Unlike Trump, Biden did it the hard way.

Just FYI, RFK is a pretty successful lawyer in his own right. He's won some large cases over the years. But sure, he's just nepo and everything Biden did is above board.

Truth is, for all of your complaints about Republicans liking RFK, you Dems hate RFK because he is a threat to a Democrat presidency.
It is reported Joe Biden has received over $10mm for his memoir, Promise me, Dad.
RFK Jr. in addition to his Family Trust money, has earned over $9mm in the past 18 months in his environmental law firm, which had been part of the legal team that won the 370mm judgement against Dupont.
“No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love Him.” 1 Corinthians 2:9
HuMcK
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"So the $9 million is from a modest book deal"

It was a book deal and speaking fees, but yes. That would be less than the book deal amounts for either Bill or Hillary, way less than the Obamas, less than Amy Schumer got for hers, or Keith Richards. W Bush reportedly got $10m. Biden did beat Pence's $4m though. Point is it's right in line with others of similar stature, if not even below them.

I know you want Biden to be corrupt so bad you can almost taste it, but we're talking about a guy who spent his career taking public transit for his commute and lived in the same home for decades. He's just never really been that guy you think he is. Hunter definitely is, but fortunately he isn't on the ballot or working in the White House. And frankly, you surrendered your moral authority to gripe about corruption by voting for the guy who crapped in a literal golden toilet and hired his kids to work in his administration (they made about $650,000,000 while they were in the White House).
Mothra
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HuMcK said:

"So the $9 million is from a modest book deal"

It was a book deal and speaking fees, but yes. That would be less than the book deal amounts for either Bill or Hillary, way less than the Obamas, less than Amy Schumer got for hers, or Keith Richards. W Bush reportedly got $10m. Biden did beat Pence's $4m though. Point is it's right in line with others of similar stature, if not even below them.

I know you want Biden to be corrupt so bad you can almost taste it, but we're talking about a guy who spent his career taking public transit for his commute and lived in the same home for decades. He's just never really been that guy you think he is. Hunter definitely is, but fortunately he isn't on the ballot or working in the White House. And frankly, you surrendered your moral authority to gripe about corruption by voting for the guy who crapped in a literal golden toilet and hired his kids to work in his administration (they made about $650,000,000 while they were in the White House).
I actually haven't said too much about the money Hunter/Joe have made, as they're not issues I get too worked up about - other than the mainstream media burying the laptop story. Believe me, there are plenty of reasons to justify never casting another vote for Biden, he's been so abysmally terrible.

I just find it interesting that a poster such as yourself, who constantly decries the "grift" that he alleges occurred during the Trump admin, constantly complains about Trump's kids, and describes Kennedy as a nepo conveniently overlooks or downplays Hunter Biden's enrichment off of dad's name. I guess it's only a bad thing when Trump's kids do it when you're a hyper-partisan party shill.
whiterock
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HuMcK said:

Everyone seems to be ignoring the remarks about US bio-labs developing ethnicity targeting diseases in Ukraine, which should sound familiar because it is one of the lies Russia uses to justify their invasion of Ukraine.

Succession watchers will get the reference, but RFKjr is essentially Conner Roy. He's a crackpot who got where he was because of his last name and being born into wealth. Some Republicans are pretending to like him for now because they want a spoiler candidate to take votes from Biden, nothing more.
not really. Total miss. The interest in RFK Jr. is the interest in free speech, and the attacks against him show how intolerant the left has become = not interested in debate but rather destroying those who dissent. And this latest ado is instructive. It's not enough that the data he cited might be wrong, or that he might be mis-applying good data....it's that he's utterly deplorable and must be cancelled. RFK Jr, like Gabbard and Lieberman, will get sympathy from Republicans because latter can relate to what they're going thru. And the dynamic highlights how conservative and liberals, for all the differences they may have on policy minutia, actually do have a lot of common ground with each other on the big questions like free speech. Also highlights how liberals are now outcasts in the Democrat Party, which is totally owned by the progressives, with whom neither liberals or conservatives have anything much in common on philosophical questions of social contract.
william
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hepburn on 'roids w/ a healthy sprinkling of alex jones.

very interesting, hogan.

- KKM

{ sipping covfefe }

D!
arbyscoin - the only crypto you can eat.
Doc Holliday
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whiterock said:

HuMcK said:

Everyone seems to be ignoring the remarks about US bio-labs developing ethnicity targeting diseases in Ukraine, which should sound familiar because it is one of the lies Russia uses to justify their invasion of Ukraine.

Succession watchers will get the reference, but RFKjr is essentially Conner Roy. He's a crackpot who got where he was because of his last name and being born into wealth. Some Republicans are pretending to like him for now because they want a spoiler candidate to take votes from Biden, nothing more.
not really. Total miss. The interest in RFK Jr. is the interest in free speech, and the attacks against him show how intolerant the left has become = not interested in debate but rather destroying those who dissent. And this latest ado is instructive. It's not enough that the data he cited might be wrong, or that he might be mis-applying good data....it's that he's utterly deplorable and must be cancelled. RFK Jr, like Gabbard and Lieberman, will get sympathy from Republicans because latter can relate to what they're going thru. And the dynamic highlights how conservative and liberals, for all the differences they may have on policy minutia, actually do have a lot of common ground with each other on the big questions like free speech. Also highlights how liberals are now outcasts in the Democrat Party, which is totally owned by the progressives, with whom neither liberals or conservatives have anything much in common on philosophical questions of social contract.
Indeed.

One-Eyed Wheeler
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4yrletterbear said:

Not trusting the Covid Vax is not a nutty position.

Facts prove the problems with that Vax.
I think he just proved himself to be a total d u m b a s s
whiterock
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One-Eyed Wheeler said:

4yrletterbear said:

Not trusting the Covid Vax is not a nutty position.

Facts prove the problems with that Vax.
I think he just proved himself to be a total d u m b a s s
Then what's the harm in letting him speak?

FLBear5630
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CammoTX said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

He is a nut, but I always appreciate free thinkers, especially in the age of Orwell.


He's not a nut. He's right and if he has a platform he will scare to death the establishment.


Right or not, I don't think I can listen to him for 4 years. His delivery and timber is grating. He loses me after 2 minutes. I will read transcript!
D. C. Bear
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whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

TWD 1974 said:

HuMcK said:


"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." RFK JR just showed us he is a complete, whacked out nut job, but he could still be Trump's next running mate...


Trump showed us who he is & I believe him
Except RFK Jr. is correct to note there is uncontentious science showing the virus is more virulent, more infectious and deadly, in some races than others.

Link?
Geez.

https://usafacts.org/articles/covid-19-death-data-shows-racial-disparities-during-the-pandemic/

All he did was use the word "targeted" in a way that suggested purpose, and then in the next sentence correct the context.

But then his critics spin.
And then the (insert nationality) interest groups feel duty bound to keep the comments from inciting negative PR about (insert nationality) when in fact that was clearly not the intent or even the effect of the comments. Such is quite corrosive to public debate.

That doesn't show what you're claiming. See this article for example.
actually, it shows exactly what I stated. your article cites conflicting data, perhaps because it is 1 year older (missing an entire year of data) although I suspect there are other explanations.

Not that such is terribly germane to the larger point. There IS data to support RFK Jr's statement. It should be debated, not denounced as deplorable because it causes discomfort to the tender-minded.


It's not conflicting data, but yes, there is an obvious explanation.
Well, we don't agree on that but perhaps we could stipulate that RFK Jr. is not deplorable just asking politically incorrect questions?


His anti vaccine efforts following the accidental death of two kids in Samoa (nurse accidentally mixed muscle relaxant instead of saline with measles vaccine) was followed by the deaths of dozens of people. His efforts included social media posts, writing the Samoan prime minister and visiting personally. If I took an accidental poisoning and worked to convince people not to vaccinate their children and then a bunch of those children died, I am not exactly sure how I could sleep at night.

https://www.kff.org/news-summary/los-angeles-times-washington-post-editorials-discuss-measles-outbreak-in-samoa-importance-of-vaccination/
Mothra
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D. C. Bear said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

TWD 1974 said:

HuMcK said:


"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." RFK JR just showed us he is a complete, whacked out nut job, but he could still be Trump's next running mate...


Trump showed us who he is & I believe him
Except RFK Jr. is correct to note there is uncontentious science showing the virus is more virulent, more infectious and deadly, in some races than others.

Link?
Geez.

https://usafacts.org/articles/covid-19-death-data-shows-racial-disparities-during-the-pandemic/

All he did was use the word "targeted" in a way that suggested purpose, and then in the next sentence correct the context.

But then his critics spin.
And then the (insert nationality) interest groups feel duty bound to keep the comments from inciting negative PR about (insert nationality) when in fact that was clearly not the intent or even the effect of the comments. Such is quite corrosive to public debate.

That doesn't show what you're claiming. See this article for example.
actually, it shows exactly what I stated. your article cites conflicting data, perhaps because it is 1 year older (missing an entire year of data) although I suspect there are other explanations.

Not that such is terribly germane to the larger point. There IS data to support RFK Jr's statement. It should be debated, not denounced as deplorable because it causes discomfort to the tender-minded.


It's not conflicting data, but yes, there is an obvious explanation.
Well, we don't agree on that but perhaps we could stipulate that RFK Jr. is not deplorable just asking politically incorrect questions?


His anti vaccine efforts following the accidental death of two kids in Samoa (nurse accidentally mixed muscle relaxant instead of saline with measles vaccine) was followed by the deaths of dozens of people. His efforts included social media posts, writing the Samoan prime minister and visiting personally. If I took an accidental poisoning and worked to convince people not to vaccinate their children and then a bunch of those children died, I am not exactly sure how I could sleep at night.

https://www.kff.org/news-summary/los-angeles-times-washington-post-editorials-discuss-measles-outbreak-in-samoa-importance-of-vaccination/


The LA Times and WaPo reporting that. Nice sources there.
D. C. Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mothra said:

D. C. Bear said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

TWD 1974 said:

HuMcK said:


"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." RFK JR just showed us he is a complete, whacked out nut job, but he could still be Trump's next running mate...


Trump showed us who he is & I believe him
Except RFK Jr. is correct to note there is uncontentious science showing the virus is more virulent, more infectious and deadly, in some races than others.

Link?
Geez.

https://usafacts.org/articles/covid-19-death-data-shows-racial-disparities-during-the-pandemic/

All he did was use the word "targeted" in a way that suggested purpose, and then in the next sentence correct the context.

But then his critics spin.
And then the (insert nationality) interest groups feel duty bound to keep the comments from inciting negative PR about (insert nationality) when in fact that was clearly not the intent or even the effect of the comments. Such is quite corrosive to public debate.

That doesn't show what you're claiming. See this article for example.
actually, it shows exactly what I stated. your article cites conflicting data, perhaps because it is 1 year older (missing an entire year of data) although I suspect there are other explanations.

Not that such is terribly germane to the larger point. There IS data to support RFK Jr's statement. It should be debated, not denounced as deplorable because it causes discomfort to the tender-minded.


It's not conflicting data, but yes, there is an obvious explanation.
Well, we don't agree on that but perhaps we could stipulate that RFK Jr. is not deplorable just asking politically incorrect questions?


His anti vaccine efforts following the accidental death of two kids in Samoa (nurse accidentally mixed muscle relaxant instead of saline with measles vaccine) was followed by the deaths of dozens of people. His efforts included social media posts, writing the Samoan prime minister and visiting personally. If I took an accidental poisoning and worked to convince people not to vaccinate their children and then a bunch of those children died, I am not exactly sure how I could sleep at night.

https://www.kff.org/news-summary/los-angeles-times-washington-post-editorials-discuss-measles-outbreak-in-samoa-importance-of-vaccination/


The LA Times and WaPo reporting that. Nice sources there.


These are not the only sources for the story. If you have a dispute with the facts, provide the evidence that that facts asserted (that he did the things he is said to have done) are inaccurate. Otherwise, complaining about accurate information because of the outlet that published is foolish.

https://www.economist.com/asia/2019/12/05/the-anti-vax-movement-causes-an-epidemic-in-samoa
Mothra
How long do you want to ignore this user?
D. C. Bear said:

Mothra said:

D. C. Bear said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

TWD 1974 said:

HuMcK said:


"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." RFK JR just showed us he is a complete, whacked out nut job, but he could still be Trump's next running mate...


Trump showed us who he is & I believe him
Except RFK Jr. is correct to note there is uncontentious science showing the virus is more virulent, more infectious and deadly, in some races than others.

Link?
Geez.

https://usafacts.org/articles/covid-19-death-data-shows-racial-disparities-during-the-pandemic/

All he did was use the word "targeted" in a way that suggested purpose, and then in the next sentence correct the context.

But then his critics spin.
And then the (insert nationality) interest groups feel duty bound to keep the comments from inciting negative PR about (insert nationality) when in fact that was clearly not the intent or even the effect of the comments. Such is quite corrosive to public debate.

That doesn't show what you're claiming. See this article for example.
actually, it shows exactly what I stated. your article cites conflicting data, perhaps because it is 1 year older (missing an entire year of data) although I suspect there are other explanations.

Not that such is terribly germane to the larger point. There IS data to support RFK Jr's statement. It should be debated, not denounced as deplorable because it causes discomfort to the tender-minded.


It's not conflicting data, but yes, there is an obvious explanation.
Well, we don't agree on that but perhaps we could stipulate that RFK Jr. is not deplorable just asking politically incorrect questions?


His anti vaccine efforts following the accidental death of two kids in Samoa (nurse accidentally mixed muscle relaxant instead of saline with measles vaccine) was followed by the deaths of dozens of people. His efforts included social media posts, writing the Samoan prime minister and visiting personally. If I took an accidental poisoning and worked to convince people not to vaccinate their children and then a bunch of those children died, I am not exactly sure how I could sleep at night.

https://www.kff.org/news-summary/los-angeles-times-washington-post-editorials-discuss-measles-outbreak-in-samoa-importance-of-vaccination/


The LA Times and WaPo reporting that. Nice sources there.


These are not the only sources for the story. If you have a dispute with the facts, provide the evidence that that facts asserted (that he did the things he is said to have done) are inaccurate. Otherwise, complaining about accurate information because of the outlet that published is foolish.

https://www.economist.com/asia/2019/12/05/the-anti-vax-movement-causes-an-epidemic-in-samoa
The idea that RFK has some of these kids blood on his hands is called an opinion, and it's written by a couple of liberal rags who recommended children get inoculated for COVID - one of the most ridiculous positions of all time. Consider your source for opinion commentary.
D. C. Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mothra said:

D. C. Bear said:

Mothra said:

D. C. Bear said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

TWD 1974 said:

HuMcK said:


"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." RFK JR just showed us he is a complete, whacked out nut job, but he could still be Trump's next running mate...


Trump showed us who he is & I believe him
Except RFK Jr. is correct to note there is uncontentious science showing the virus is more virulent, more infectious and deadly, in some races than others.

Link?
Geez.

https://usafacts.org/articles/covid-19-death-data-shows-racial-disparities-during-the-pandemic/

All he did was use the word "targeted" in a way that suggested purpose, and then in the next sentence correct the context.

But then his critics spin.
And then the (insert nationality) interest groups feel duty bound to keep the comments from inciting negative PR about (insert nationality) when in fact that was clearly not the intent or even the effect of the comments. Such is quite corrosive to public debate.

That doesn't show what you're claiming. See this article for example.
actually, it shows exactly what I stated. your article cites conflicting data, perhaps because it is 1 year older (missing an entire year of data) although I suspect there are other explanations.

Not that such is terribly germane to the larger point. There IS data to support RFK Jr's statement. It should be debated, not denounced as deplorable because it causes discomfort to the tender-minded.


It's not conflicting data, but yes, there is an obvious explanation.
Well, we don't agree on that but perhaps we could stipulate that RFK Jr. is not deplorable just asking politically incorrect questions?


His anti vaccine efforts following the accidental death of two kids in Samoa (nurse accidentally mixed muscle relaxant instead of saline with measles vaccine) was followed by the deaths of dozens of people. His efforts included social media posts, writing the Samoan prime minister and visiting personally. If I took an accidental poisoning and worked to convince people not to vaccinate their children and then a bunch of those children died, I am not exactly sure how I could sleep at night.

https://www.kff.org/news-summary/los-angeles-times-washington-post-editorials-discuss-measles-outbreak-in-samoa-importance-of-vaccination/


The LA Times and WaPo reporting that. Nice sources there.


These are not the only sources for the story. If you have a dispute with the facts, provide the evidence that that facts asserted (that he did the things he is said to have done) are inaccurate. Otherwise, complaining about accurate information because of the outlet that published is foolish.

https://www.economist.com/asia/2019/12/05/the-anti-vax-movement-causes-an-epidemic-in-samoa
The idea that RFK has some of these kids blood on his hands is called an opinion, and it's written by a couple of liberal rags who recommended children get inoculated for COVID - one of the most ridiculous positions of all time. Consider your source for opinion commentary.


Do you dispute the facts that following two accidental deaths due to an error by a nurse that contaminated measles vaccine with muscle relaxant RFK Jr. did what it was said he did in Samoa? I understand that you may believe he was justified and I understand that you might not like what you call the opinion that his actions contributed to the collapse in vaccine rates and subsequent outbreak and deaths, but do you dispute the facts that he did what did or not?
whiterock
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D. C. Bear said:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


His anti vaccine efforts following the accidental death of two kids in Samoa (nurse accidentally mixed muscle relaxant instead of saline with measles vaccine) was followed by the deaths of dozens of people. His efforts included social media posts, writing the Samoan prime minister and visiting personally. If I took an accidental poisoning and worked to convince people not to vaccinate their children and then a bunch of those children died, I am not exactly sure how I could sleep at night.

https://www.kff.org/news-summary/los-angeles-times-washington-post-editorials-discuss-measles-outbreak-in-samoa-importance-of-vaccination/


The LA Times and WaPo reporting that. Nice sources there.


These are not the only sources for the story. If you have a dispute with the facts, provide the evidence that that facts asserted (that he did the things he is said to have done) are inaccurate. Otherwise, complaining about accurate information because of the outlet that published is foolish.

https://www.economist.com/asia/2019/12/05/the-anti-vax-movement-causes-an-epidemic-in-samoa
The idea that RFK has some of these kids blood on his hands is called an opinion, and it's written by a couple of liberal rags who recommended children get inoculated for COVID - one of the most ridiculous positions of all time. Consider your source for opinion commentary.


Do you dispute the facts that following two accidental deaths due to an error by a nurse that contaminated measles vaccine with muscle relaxant RFK Jr. did what it was said he did in Samoa? I understand that you may believe he was justified and I understand that you might not like what you call the opinion that his actions contributed to the collapse in vaccine rates and subsequent outbreak and deaths, but do you dispute the facts that he did what did or not?
Did you see the Facebook posts?
Have you been to the website of Childrens' Defense Fund?

The Wapo and LAT articles carry the same genetic fallacy arguments against RFK Jr. that they do against conservatives and conservative issues - "well, they are (insert deplorable term here), so they should be deplatformed."

Asking questions about the safety of a vaccine, or the constitutionality of a vaccine requirement, is squarely within the tradition of free speech. The proper answer to bad speech is more speech. Denouncing and deplatforming is, in fact, evidence of establishments exercising power to defend an otherwise weak argument.

But it is convenient that such critics exist, as they can be blamed for the failure of public officials to do a good job, which is what happened in Samoa.
TexasScientist
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Mothra said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

So far, we have meditation where it's reported he speaks to the dead.

Many people have different views of their relationship (or lack there of) with the dead. A friend of mine lost her mom this morning. She said her mom is now looking down on her family watching out for them. Is she nuts, normal, struggles expressing herself…?

What nutty views does he have regarding policy? What views does he have that would impact the economy, the balance of power etc
Some atheists, such as old dbag Ronnie here, think all religious people are nuts. The irony is, they fail to grasp the fact that a belief that complex life forms came from inanimate matter is about as illogical and absurd as they come.
Scientific plausibility, as opposed to illogical belief in supernatural magic? Religion hasn't explained or revealed to us anything we know to be true about the natural world.
Johnny Bear
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TexasScientist said:

Mothra said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

So far, we have meditation where it's reported he speaks to the dead.

Many people have different views of their relationship (or lack there of) with the dead. A friend of mine lost her mom this morning. She said her mom is now looking down on her family watching out for them. Is she nuts, normal, struggles expressing herself…?

What nutty views does he have regarding policy? What views does he have that would impact the economy, the balance of power etc
Some atheists, such as old dbag Ronnie here, think all religious people are nuts. The irony is, they fail to grasp the fact that a belief that complex life forms came from inanimate matter is about as illogical and absurd as they come.
Scientific plausibility, as opposed to illogical belief in supernatural magic? Religion hasn't explained or revealed to us anything we know to be true about the natural world.

You're actually the one that believes in pure "magic" and the one that by comparison relies about a million times more on blind faith to believe what you believe.
TexasScientist
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

TWD 1974 said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

TWD 1974 said:

HuMcK said:


"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." RFK JR just showed us he is a complete, whacked out nut job, but he could still be Trump's next running mate...


Trump showed us who he is & I believe him
Except RFK Jr. is correct to note there is uncontentious science showing the virus is more virulent, more infectious and deadly, in some races than others. Is it really so strained to ask the question of whether not that is accidental, given that it is now widely accepted that CV leaked from a lab in China? A virus leaks from a lab in China and it just happens to affect Chinese less than others?

RFK Jr here indeed committed the same sin Trump does: he said the quiet part out loud.
And then, predictably, the left goes berserk.




1. I contend with your uncontentious science as I believe there is no such thing. Science is when you work to prove a hypothesis by eliminating possible variables to an experiment or data and withstanding challenges to your conclusions. Consequently, all real science is constantly contended and subject to review or correction. Where is the data to refute what JFK Jr said? (notably, I'm not seeing anyone contest the data he cited.)
2. Your statement on Covid and race is an example of statements in the press that have faild to make a full review of the information. The level of devastation of Covid, like all pandemics before it, has varied in place and time. African Americans were much more devastated by the disease than people on the African Continent, which would suggest other factors than race. It is estimated well over one million Chinese have died from the disease, so the Race targeted microbes seem to be a bit of a hit and miss operation. In my neck of the woods, the first outbreaks of Covid emanated from people attended a Jewish wedding. A million is a big number, but it is not helpful to your case if you recall that China has 1.4 billion people.
3. While it is much believed and talked about, it has not been proven there was a leak of Covid 19 from the lab in China. Also, later, fuller analysis of the Virus that was known to be stored in the Lab shows a degree of differentiation from the virus found in the population. Such variation is not likely to have been created in a lab, but evolved in nature over decades. This and other analysis have caused a number of Scientists who first suggested a Lab leak cause to reconsider or withdraw that possibility. You are a little behind on this. Even those who ardently criticized the lab-leak theory are now admitting there is evidence for it.
4. While we can all pick a Scientific position we like the best, in the end we have to ask ourselves is the hypothesis we are suggesting logical. In order for them to be plausible, how many leaps of imagination are needed. When we start to question suppositions, a deeper reading can lead to some disturbing conclusions. The allegation of a sinister alliance between China and Jews is antisemitism dressed up to pretend it is factual or "scientific."
RFK Jr. did not make an allegation of a sinister alliance. He merely noted the data as evidence of human manipulation of the virus. His critics seized the opportunity to built a straw man and attacked. That's what the left does - relentlessly make ad hominem attacks on anyone who questions leftist orthodoxy.
That would be true of both left and right.
TexasScientist
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Johnny Bear said:

TexasScientist said:

Mothra said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

So far, we have meditation where it's reported he speaks to the dead.

Many people have different views of their relationship (or lack there of) with the dead. A friend of mine lost her mom this morning. She said her mom is now looking down on her family watching out for them. Is she nuts, normal, struggles expressing herself…?

What nutty views does he have regarding policy? What views does he have that would impact the economy, the balance of power etc
Some atheists, such as old dbag Ronnie here, think all religious people are nuts. The irony is, they fail to grasp the fact that a belief that complex life forms came from inanimate matter is about as illogical and absurd as they come.
Scientific plausibility, as opposed to illogical belief in supernatural magic? Religion hasn't explained or revealed to us anything we know to be true about the natural world.

You're actually the one that believes in pure "magic" and the one that by comparison relies about a million times more on blind faith to believe what you believe.
The evidence of reality is not magic. Scientific plausibiltiy doesn't require faith.
TexasScientist
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

TWD 1974 said:

HuMcK said:


"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." RFK JR just showed us he is a complete, whacked out nut job, but he could still be Trump's next running mate...


Trump showed us who he is & I believe him
Except RFK Jr. is correct to note there is uncontentious science showing the virus is more virulent, more infectious and deadly, in some races than others.

Link?
Geez.

https://usafacts.org/articles/covid-19-death-data-shows-racial-disparities-during-the-pandemic/

All he did was use the word "targeted" in a way that suggested purpose, and then in the next sentence correct the context.

But then his critics spin.
And then the (insert nationality) interest groups feel duty bound to keep the comments from inciting negative PR about (insert nationality) when in fact that was clearly not the intent or even the effect of the comments. Such is quite corrosive to public debate.

That doesn't show what you're claiming. See this article for example.
actually, it shows exactly what I stated. your article cites conflicting data, perhaps because it is 1 year older (missing an entire year of data) although I suspect there are other explanations.

Not that such is terribly germane to the larger point. There IS data to support RFK Jr's statement. It should be debated, not denounced as deplorable because it causes discomfort to the tender-minded.


It's not conflicting data, but yes, there is an obvious explanation.
Well, we don't agree on that but perhaps we could stipulate that RFK Jr. is not deplorable just asking politically incorrect questions?
I agree with that, as long as questioning really means questioning and not making false claims. Deadliness, virulence, and infectiousness are three different metrics. I don't know of any studies showing that Covid is more virulent or infectious in some races than others, as RFK suggested. Your link shows that it was less deadly in the general Chinese-American population, which could mean it was less virulent, less infectious, or both. My link shows that it was more deadly in the infected Chinese-American population, which suggests that it was actually more virulent. Of course causal connections would have to be established in order to put any of this beyond contention.
Pro-Trump counties continue to suffer far higher COVID death tolls

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/19/1098543849/pro-trump-counties-continue-to-suffer-far-higher-covid-death-tolls
 
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