Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

alternate electors is not a new thing. Also neither a crime, nor fraud, nor insurrection, nor anything nefarious at all.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/07/1960-electoral-college-certificates-false-trump-electors-00006186

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

He didn't force that…

Force isn't verbal demand.

---

He used his position and followers and did nothing while the Capital was stormed with Pence inside. He smiles and in an interview said the demonstrators were mad. The guy you want to be President again.

Watching a really good historical show on Netflix. Hitlers: Circle of Evil, you should watch it. Very good.

---

I want Rand Paul to be POTUS, but he's not running unfortunately.

Trump is the best bet to actually be POTUS because of polling. That's not an endorsement of Trump, it's just pointing out the reality of the situation.

Trump told people to be peaceful prior to them trespassing.

Hitler was a socialist leftoid psychopath. Nazi society normalized hatred of Jews just like the modern left with their monopoly on media and academia is normalizing the hatred of anyone opposed to their politics.

---

How many mass shootings now committed by people wearing swastikas? I can think of at least two just this year. Those aren't "leftists", they are your people. That's what you are supporting, you are the one normalizing hatred of others.

Not for nothing, but those famous pictures of Nazis burning books, were outside the Munich Institute of Sexology. They were attacking the queer "woke" sectors of their society to "protect children". Sound familiar? For you to sit there and turn that **** around on "the left" is full on Orwellian. And no, Hitler was not a socialist in any meaningful sense of the word, he sent those people straight to the camps after he consolidated his power.

HuMcK said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

He didn't force that…

Force isn't verbal demand.

---

He used his position and followers and did nothing while the Capital was stormed with Pence inside. He smiles and in an interview said the demonstrators were mad. The guy you want to be President again.

Watching a really good historical show on Netflix. Hitlers: Circle of Evil, you should watch it. Very good.

---

I want Rand Paul to be POTUS, but he's not running unfortunately.

Trump is the best bet to actually be POTUS because of polling. That's not an endorsement of Trump, it's just pointing out the reality of the situation.

Trump told people to be peaceful prior to them trespassing.

Hitler was a socialist leftoid psychopath. Nazi society normalized hatred of Jews just like the modern left with their monopoly on media and academia is normalizing the hatred of anyone opposed to their politics.

---

How many mass shootings now committed by people wearing swastikas? I can think of at least two just this year. Those aren't "leftists", they are your people. That's what you are supporting, you are the one normalizing hatred of others.

Not for nothing, but those famous pictures of Nazis burning books, were outside the Munich Institute of Sexology. They were attacking the queer "woke" sectors of their society to "protect children". Sound familiar? For you to sit there and turn that **** around on "the left" is full on Orwellian. And no, Hitler was not a socialist in any meaningful sense of the word, he sent those people straight to the camps after he consolidated his power.

---

Fewer than have been committed by trainies.

Hitler was definitely a socialist.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

He didn't force that…

Force isn't verbal demand.

---

He used his position and followers and did nothing while the Capital was stormed with Pence inside. He smiles and in an interview said the demonstrators were mad. The guy you want to be President again.

Watching a really good historical show on Netflix. Hitlers: Circle of Evil, you should watch it. Very good.

---

I want Rand Paul to be POTUS, but he's not running unfortunately.

Trump is the best bet to actually be POTUS because of polling. That's not an endorsement of Trump, it's just pointing out the reality of the situation.

Trump told people to be peaceful prior to them trespassing.

Hitler was a socialist leftoid psychopath. Nazi society normalized hatred of Jews just like the modern left with their monopoly on media and academia is normalizing the hatred of anyone opposed to their politics.

---

How many mass shootings now committed by people wearing swastikas? I can think of at least two just this year. Those aren't "leftists", they are your people. That's what you are supporting, you are the one normalizing hatred of others.

Not for nothing, but those famous pictures of Nazis burning books, were outside the Munich Institute of Sexology. They were attacking the queer "woke" sectors of their society to "protect children". Sound familiar? For you to sit there and turn that **** around on "the left" is full on Orwellian. And no, Hitler was not a socialist in any meaningful sense of the word, he sent those people straight to the camps after he consolidated his power.

---

Fewer than have been committed by trainies.

Hitler was definitely a socialist.

---

That would come as quite a surprise to all of the capitalistic private companies that produced German equipment.

Waco1947 said:

---

A "party" has not gone after trump but judicial system based on trump's actions and words.

---

Lol. Uh huh, sure.

It seems that the gop and the right wing is normalizing LGBTQ hatred.

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

That's a red herring. Parties have gone after actual presidents - that's more than "parallel." Starting with Nixon, every Pres except Obama had a special/independent counsel investigate them, and even for Obama, the GOP wanted it done relative to the gun runner scandal. GOP is after Biden now. There is nothing new about what is happening to Trump.

I've said all along, I'm not convinced the election crap is crime. But, the theories are no more flimsy than what most prior special/independent counsel have investigated (supported by the opposing party). And, I must say, the more I read about Trump's election challenges, the worse it looks. I'm still not ready to change my mind, it is really ugly.

And the documents/obstruction is a perfectly legitimate charge, and I think he's convicted absent jury nullification.

Again, the only difference is Trump's idiotic and reckless conduct.

---

You're comparing apples to oranges IMO. To me, there is a significant difference between trying to find ways to impeach a sitting president, and charging him with criminal conduct, that would effectively prevent him from running for president.

Whether you will admit it, or not, what's going on with Trump is indeed, unprecedented. Now I don't disagree with you that he's brought most if not all of this on himself. But I'm also not so naive to believe that this is anything other than a politically motivated prosecution that looks far different than anything we've seen before.

HuMcK said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

He didn't force that…

Force isn't verbal demand.

---

He used his position and followers and did nothing while the Capital was stormed with Pence inside. He smiles and in an interview said the demonstrators were mad. The guy you want to be President again.

Watching a really good historical show on Netflix. Hitlers: Circle of Evil, you should watch it. Very good.

---

I want Rand Paul to be POTUS, but he's not running unfortunately.

Trump is the best bet to actually be POTUS because of polling. That's not an endorsement of Trump, it's just pointing out the reality of the situation.

Trump told people to be peaceful prior to them trespassing.

Hitler was a socialist leftoid psychopath. Nazi society normalized hatred of Jews just like the modern left with their monopoly on media and academia is normalizing the hatred of anyone opposed to their politics.

---

How many mass shootings now committed by people wearing swastikas? I can think of at least two just this year. Those aren't "leftists", they are your people. That's what you are supporting, you are the one normalizing hatred of others.

Not for nothing, but those famous pictures of Nazis burning books, were outside the Munich Institute of Sexology. They were attacking the queer "woke" sectors of their society to "protect children". Sound familiar? For you to sit there and turn that **** around on "the left" is full on Orwellian. And no, Hitler was not a socialist in any meaningful sense of the word, he sent those people straight to the camps after he consolidated his power.

---

MY PEOPLE?!!

I don't support socialist Nazis. *** are you talking about? I'm libertarian against both GOP/Dem uniparty. Not a right winger by any stretch.

There's a difference between someone hating LGBT and those like me who don't want it shoved down our throats or in the realm of special treatment politics.

Yes Nazis supported ownership over the means of production. That is economic socialism. That's what it actually means. Don't conflate welfare supporters with socialism.

Doc Holliday said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

He didn't force that…

Force isn't verbal demand.

---

He used his position and followers and did nothing while the Capital was stormed with Pence inside. He smiles and in an interview said the demonstrators were mad. The guy you want to be President again.

Watching a really good historical show on Netflix. Hitlers: Circle of Evil, you should watch it. Very good.

---

I want Rand Paul to be POTUS, but he's not running unfortunately.

Trump is the best bet to actually be POTUS because of polling. That's not an endorsement of Trump, it's just pointing out the reality of the situation.

Trump told people to be peaceful prior to them trespassing.

Hitler was a socialist leftoid psychopath. Nazi society normalized hatred of Jews just like the modern left with their monopoly on media and academia is normalizing the hatred of anyone opposed to their politics.

---

How many mass shootings now committed by people wearing swastikas? I can think of at least two just this year. Those aren't "leftists", they are your people. That's what you are supporting, you are the one normalizing hatred of others.

Not for nothing, but those famous pictures of Nazis burning books, were outside the Munich Institute of Sexology. They were attacking the queer "woke" sectors of their society to "protect children". Sound familiar? For you to sit there and turn that **** around on "the left" is full on Orwellian. And no, Hitler was not a socialist in any meaningful sense of the word, he sent those people straight to the camps after he consolidated his power.

---

MY PEOPLE?!!

I don't support socialist Nazis. *** are you talking about? I'm libertarian against both GOP/Dem uniparty. Not a right winger by any stretch.

There's a difference between someone hating LGBT and those like me who don't want it shoved down our throats or in the realm of special treatment politics.

Yes Nazis supported ownership over the means of production. That is economic socialism. That's what it actually means. Don't conflate welfare supporters with socialism.

---

No, they quite literally did not. One of Hitler's first economic reform programs in the early 30s was privatizing state owned businesses (and it was pretty successful). Private companies developed and made every single piece of equipment that fueled the German war machine, it's part of why they were technologically so far ahead of their actual socialist adversaries, the Soviets.

Pure Libertarians (i.e. far right-wingers) are just as naive and out of touch as Bernie Sanders supporters, different flavors of the same dumbass. You even sound the same, talking nonsense about "the uniparty" (i.e. centrist moderates) always foiling their grand schemes.

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

and he didnt

---

No, he used a national intimidation campaign. He used his position as. His boss to put pressure on him. So what Trump and his MAGA supporters did and said was right and legal?

---

if your boss told you to rob a bank but you didnt is it still bank robbery?

---

You tell you Assistant to commit tax fraud, you are on safe legal ground?

whiterock said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

alternate electors is not a new thing. Also neither a crime, nor fraud, nor insurrection, nor anything nefarious at all.

---

Absolutely right. Unless of course a crime, fraud, or insurrection is involved.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

He didn't force that…

Force isn't verbal demand.

---

He used his position and followers and did nothing while the Capital was stormed with Pence inside. He smiles and in an interview said the demonstrators were mad. The guy you want to be President again.

Watching a really good historical show on Netflix. Hitlers: Circle of Evil, you should watch it. Very good.

---

I want Rand Paul to be POTUS, but he's not running unfortunately.

Trump is the best bet to actually be POTUS because of polling. That's not an endorsement of Trump, it's just pointing out the reality of the situation.

Trump told people to be peaceful prior to them trespassing.

Hitler was a socialist leftoid psychopath. Nazi society normalized hatred of Jews just like the modern left with their monopoly on media and academia is normalizing the hatred of anyone opposed to their politics.

---

How many mass shootings now committed by people wearing swastikas? I can think of at least two just this year. Those aren't "leftists", they are your people. That's what you are supporting, you are the one normalizing hatred of others.

Not for nothing, but those famous pictures of Nazis burning books, were outside the Munich Institute of Sexology. They were attacking the queer "woke" sectors of their society to "protect children". Sound familiar? For you to sit there and turn that **** around on "the left" is full on Orwellian. And no, Hitler was not a socialist in any meaningful sense of the word, he sent those people straight to the camps after he consolidated his power.

---

Fewer than have been committed by trainies.

Hitler was definitely a socialist.

---

The show I brought up is not about Hitler, he is a side show. It is about those around him that enabled him, executed his whacked out plans and smoothed the way with the money people.

Hitler was the complete antithesis of a socialist, as we use the word. One of the reasons he was able to come to power was he resisted and hated the Leftist. Otherwise respectable organizations tolerated and appeased him because he did attack the Leftist.

Nazi Germany was a ends justifies the means until it didn't story. That is what I am afraid of with the path we are heading from both Left and Right.

HuMcK said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

He didn't force that…

Force isn't verbal demand.

---

He used his position and followers and did nothing while the Capital was stormed with Pence inside. He smiles and in an interview said the demonstrators were mad. The guy you want to be President again.

Watching a really good historical show on Netflix. Hitlers: Circle of Evil, you should watch it. Very good.

---

I want Rand Paul to be POTUS, but he's not running unfortunately.

Trump is the best bet to actually be POTUS because of polling. That's not an endorsement of Trump, it's just pointing out the reality of the situation.

Trump told people to be peaceful prior to them trespassing.

Hitler was a socialist leftoid psychopath. Nazi society normalized hatred of Jews just like the modern left with their monopoly on media and academia is normalizing the hatred of anyone opposed to their politics.

---

How many mass shootings now committed by people wearing swastikas? I can think of at least two just this year. Those aren't "leftists", they are your people. That's what you are supporting, you are the one normalizing hatred of others.

Not for nothing, but those famous pictures of Nazis burning books, were outside the Munich Institute of Sexology. They were attacking the queer "woke" sectors of their society to "protect children". Sound familiar? For you to sit there and turn that **** around on "the left" is full on Orwellian. And no, Hitler was not a socialist in any meaningful sense of the word, he sent those people straight to the camps after he consolidated his power.

---

MY PEOPLE?!!

I don't support socialist Nazis. *** are you talking about? I'm libertarian against both GOP/Dem uniparty. Not a right winger by any stretch.

There's a difference between someone hating LGBT and those like me who don't want it shoved down our throats or in the realm of special treatment politics.

Yes Nazis supported ownership over the means of production. That is economic socialism. That's what it actually means. Don't conflate welfare supporters with socialism.

---

No, they quite literally did not. One of Hitler's first economic reform programs in the early 30s was privatizing state owned businesses (and it was pretty successful). Private companies developed and made every single piece of equipment that fueled the German war machine, it's part of why they were technologically so far ahead of their actual socialist adversaries, the Soviets.

Pure Libertarians (i.e. far right-wingers) are just as naive and out of touch as Bernie Sanders supporters, different flavors of the same dumbass. You even sound the same, talking nonsense about "the uniparty" (i.e. centrist moderates) always foiling their grand schemes.

---

Soviets were communists.

Socialism is basically co ops where shareholderism is outlawed and employees own the means of production. It's privately held ownership by the workers.

Yes many Bernie supporters rightfully call out the wealth disparity between the elite class and the middle/poor. We are a nation whose banks/corporations are in bed with the government. Lobbying for regulation to run financial racketeering, pork and barrel spending and kickbacks is how DC operates at large.

If DC was doing its job, the average US salary would be $130k/year.

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

alternate electors is not a new thing. Also neither a crime, nor fraud, nor insurrection, nor anything nefarious at all.

---

Absolutely right. Unless of course a crime, fraud, or insurrection is involved.

---

The State Legislature submit the Electors, you can't go and find people that will vote for you and slip them in through the VP! That is fraud.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

He didn't force that…

Force isn't verbal demand.

---

He used his position and followers and did nothing while the Capital was stormed with Pence inside. He smiles and in an interview said the demonstrators were mad. The guy you want to be President again.

Watching a really good historical show on Netflix. Hitlers: Circle of Evil, you should watch it. Very good.

---

I want Rand Paul to be POTUS, but he's not running unfortunately.

Trump is the best bet to actually be POTUS because of polling. That's not an endorsement of Trump, it's just pointing out the reality of the situation.

Trump told people to be peaceful prior to them trespassing.

Hitler was a socialist leftoid psychopath. Nazi society normalized hatred of Jews just like the modern left with their monopoly on media and academia is normalizing the hatred of anyone opposed to their politics.

---

How many mass shootings now committed by people wearing swastikas? I can think of at least two just this year. Those aren't "leftists", they are your people. That's what you are supporting, you are the one normalizing hatred of others.

Not for nothing, but those famous pictures of Nazis burning books, were outside the Munich Institute of Sexology. They were attacking the queer "woke" sectors of their society to "protect children". Sound familiar? For you to sit there and turn that **** around on "the left" is full on Orwellian. And no, Hitler was not a socialist in any meaningful sense of the word, he sent those people straight to the camps after he consolidated his power.

---

Fewer than have been committed by trainies.

Hitler was definitely a socialist.

---

The show I brought up is not about Hitler, he is a side show. It is about those around him that enabled him, executed his whacked out plans and smoothed the way with the money people.

Hitler was the complete antithesis of a socialist, as we use the word. One of the reasons he was able to come to power was he resisted and hated the Leftist. Otherwise respectable organizations tolerated and appeased him because he did attack the Leftist.

Nazi Germany was a ends justifies the means until it didn't story. That is what I am afraid of with the path we are heading from both Left and Right.

---

Nazi's had enormous government power.

Our country was founded on limited governmental power.

The only people driving us toward that path are people who want to grant our government more power, authority, regulation etc.

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

That's a red herring. Parties have gone after actual presidents - that's more than "parallel." Starting with Nixon, every Pres except Obama had a special/independent counsel investigate them, and even for Obama, the GOP wanted it done relative to the gun runner scandal. GOP is after Biden now. There is nothing new about what is happening to Trump.

I've said all along, I'm not convinced the election crap is crime. But, the theories are no more flimsy than what most prior special/independent counsel have investigated (supported by the opposing party). And, I must say, the more I read about Trump's election challenges, the worse it looks. I'm still not ready to change my mind, it is really ugly.

And the documents/obstruction is a perfectly legitimate charge, and I think he's convicted absent jury nullification.

Again, the only difference is Trump's idiotic and reckless conduct.

---

You're comparing apples to oranges IMO. To me, there is a significant difference between trying to find ways to impeach a sitting president, and charging him with criminal conduct, that would effectively prevent him from running for president.

Whether you will admit it, or not, what's going on with Trump is indeed, unprecedented. Now I don't disagree with you that he's brought most if not all of this on himself. But I'm also not so naive to believe that this is anything other than a politically motivated prosecution that looks far different than anything we've seen before.

---

To be clear, all of those indep counsels were investigating and considering criminal charges, and the opposing party was calling for criminal charges. Just as our party is now against Biden.

We agree that these are politically motivated, but so have been all the others. But that doesn't make any of this unprecedented. Bringing the actual criminal charges is basically new, but it's not because neither party has tried in the past. And I continue to maintain that nobody else has done the things Trump has done.

Would we have wanted to charge Obama criminally if he stole, hid, and obstructed a fed investigation regarding classified docs? Of course we would have, just like we wanted for Hillary. And military and political figures have been indicted for less.

Again, the election challenge-related charged are a different animal, but have others done the things Trump has done? Lied in numerous state and fed court pleadings about fraud? Tried to coerce his VP into violating the constitution? Made questionable (at best) requests to "find votes?" Tried to coerce state officials into changing numbers?

HuMcK said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

He didn't force that…

Force isn't verbal demand.

---

He used his position and followers and did nothing while the Capital was stormed with Pence inside. He smiles and in an interview said the demonstrators were mad. The guy you want to be President again.

Watching a really good historical show on Netflix. Hitlers: Circle of Evil, you should watch it. Very good.

---

I want Rand Paul to be POTUS, but he's not running unfortunately.

Trump is the best bet to actually be POTUS because of polling. That's not an endorsement of Trump, it's just pointing out the reality of the situation.

Trump told people to be peaceful prior to them trespassing.

Hitler was a socialist leftoid psychopath. Nazi society normalized hatred of Jews just like the modern left with their monopoly on media and academia is normalizing the hatred of anyone opposed to their politics.

---

How many mass shootings now committed by people wearing swastikas? I can think of at least two just this year. Those aren't "leftists", they are your people. That's what you are supporting, you are the one normalizing hatred of others.

Not for nothing, but those famous pictures of Nazis burning books, were outside the Munich Institute of Sexology. They were attacking the queer "woke" sectors of their society to "protect children". Sound familiar? For you to sit there and turn that **** around on "the left" is full on Orwellian. And no, Hitler was not a socialist in any meaningful sense of the word, he sent those people straight to the camps after he consolidated his power.

---

The differences between Nazis and "real" socialists were thoroughly sectarian. In a way they're analogous to the disputes between Catholics and Protestants. To most outsiders, a Christian is a Christian. Hitler was a socialist, albeit somewhat unorthodox.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

alternate electors is not a new thing. Also neither a crime, nor fraud, nor insurrection, nor anything nefarious at all.

---

Absolutely right. Unless of course a crime, fraud, or insurrection is involved.

---

The State Legislature submit the Electors, you can't go and find people that will vote for you and slip them in through the VP! That is fraud.

---

Yep.

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

He didn't force that…

Force isn't verbal demand.

---

He used his position and followers and did nothing while the Capital was stormed with Pence inside. He smiles and in an interview said the demonstrators were mad. The guy you want to be President again.

Watching a really good historical show on Netflix. Hitlers: Circle of Evil, you should watch it. Very good.

---

I want Rand Paul to be POTUS, but he's not running unfortunately.

Trump is the best bet to actually be POTUS because of polling. That's not an endorsement of Trump, it's just pointing out the reality of the situation.

Trump told people to be peaceful prior to them trespassing.

Hitler was a socialist leftoid psychopath. Nazi society normalized hatred of Jews just like the modern left with their monopoly on media and academia is normalizing the hatred of anyone opposed to their politics.

---

How many mass shootings now committed by people wearing swastikas? I can think of at least two just this year. Those aren't "leftists", they are your people. That's what you are supporting, you are the one normalizing hatred of others.

Not for nothing, but those famous pictures of Nazis burning books, were outside the Munich Institute of Sexology. They were attacking the queer "woke" sectors of their society to "protect children". Sound familiar? For you to sit there and turn that **** around on "the left" is full on Orwellian. And no, Hitler was not a socialist in any meaningful sense of the word, he sent those people straight to the camps after he consolidated his power.

---

Fewer than have been committed by trainies.

Hitler was definitely a socialist.

---

The show I brought up is not about Hitler, he is a side show. It is about those around him that enabled him, executed his whacked out plans and smoothed the way with the money people.

Hitler was the complete antithesis of a socialist, as we use the word. One of the reasons he was able to come to power was he resisted and hated the Leftist. Otherwise respectable organizations tolerated and appeased him because he did attack the Leftist.

Nazi Germany was a ends justifies the means until it didn't story. That is what I am afraid of with the path we are heading from both Left and Right.

---

Nazi's had enormous government power.

Our country was founded on limited governmental power.

The only people driving us toward that path are people who want to grant our government more power, authority, regulation etc.

---

You are going way too literal. I am not saying that anyone is the Nazi Party. It is how they did it that is the point of the show. The tactics are the same regardless of the platform. It is an interesting watch during election season. It was NOT a shot at you or Donald but a serious recommendation.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

He didn't force that…

Force isn't verbal demand.

---

He used his position and followers and did nothing while the Capital was stormed with Pence inside. He smiles and in an interview said the demonstrators were mad. The guy you want to be President again.

Watching a really good historical show on Netflix. Hitlers: Circle of Evil, you should watch it. Very good.

---

I want Rand Paul to be POTUS, but he's not running unfortunately.

Trump is the best bet to actually be POTUS because of polling. That's not an endorsement of Trump, it's just pointing out the reality of the situation.

Trump told people to be peaceful prior to them trespassing.

Hitler was a socialist leftoid psychopath. Nazi society normalized hatred of Jews just like the modern left with their monopoly on media and academia is normalizing the hatred of anyone opposed to their politics.

---

How many mass shootings now committed by people wearing swastikas? I can think of at least two just this year. Those aren't "leftists", they are your people. That's what you are supporting, you are the one normalizing hatred of others.

Not for nothing, but those famous pictures of Nazis burning books, were outside the Munich Institute of Sexology. They were attacking the queer "woke" sectors of their society to "protect children". Sound familiar? For you to sit there and turn that **** around on "the left" is full on Orwellian. And no, Hitler was not a socialist in any meaningful sense of the word, he sent those people straight to the camps after he consolidated his power.

---

Fewer than have been committed by trainies.

Hitler was definitely a socialist.

---

The show I brought up is not about Hitler, he is a side show. It is about those around him that enabled him, executed his whacked out plans and smoothed the way with the money people.

Hitler was the complete antithesis of a socialist, as we use the word. One of the reasons he was able to come to power was he resisted and hated the Leftist. Otherwise respectable organizations tolerated and appeased him because he did attack the Leftist.

Nazi Germany was a ends justifies the means until it didn't story. That is what I am afraid of with the path we are heading from both Left and Right.

---

He was literally a socialist.

I agree with you that much of the Orwellian tactics deployed by the left from cancel culture to Newspeak to using the laws to punish political opponents is not dissimilar to what we have seen in authoritarian regimes.

Biden's Triumph of the Will speech where he demonized anyone with a diverse opinion and threatened an entire half the country could have been delivered in Hitler's Reich.

Sam Lowry said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

He didn't force that…

Force isn't verbal demand.

---

He used his position and followers and did nothing while the Capital was stormed with Pence inside. He smiles and in an interview said the demonstrators were mad. The guy you want to be President again.

Watching a really good historical show on Netflix. Hitlers: Circle of Evil, you should watch it. Very good.

---

I want Rand Paul to be POTUS, but he's not running unfortunately.

Trump is the best bet to actually be POTUS because of polling. That's not an endorsement of Trump, it's just pointing out the reality of the situation.

Trump told people to be peaceful prior to them trespassing.

Hitler was a socialist leftoid psychopath. Nazi society normalized hatred of Jews just like the modern left with their monopoly on media and academia is normalizing the hatred of anyone opposed to their politics.

---

How many mass shootings now committed by people wearing swastikas? I can think of at least two just this year. Those aren't "leftists", they are your people. That's what you are supporting, you are the one normalizing hatred of others.

Not for nothing, but those famous pictures of Nazis burning books, were outside the Munich Institute of Sexology. They were attacking the queer "woke" sectors of their society to "protect children". Sound familiar? For you to sit there and turn that **** around on "the left" is full on Orwellian. And no, Hitler was not a socialist in any meaningful sense of the word, he sent those people straight to the camps after he consolidated his power.

---

The differences between Nazis and "real" socialists were thoroughly sectarian. In a way they're analogous to the disputes between Catholics and Protestants. To most outsiders, a Christian is a Christian. Hitler was a socialist, albeit somewhat unorthodox.

---

The best analogy is the literally civil war between the Bolsheviks and the Mensheviks ... just because they were opposed to one another politically (in a sectarian way) did not make the Menshaviks capitalists.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

He didn't force that%85

Force isn't verbal demand.

---

He used his position and followers and did nothing while the Capital was stormed with Pence inside. He smiles and in an interview said the demonstrators were mad. The guy you want to be President again.

Watching a really good historical show on Netflix. Hitlers: Circle of Evil, you should watch it. Very good.

---

I want Rand Paul to be POTUS, but he's not running unfortunately.

Trump is the best bet to actually be POTUS because of polling. That's not an endorsement of Trump, it's just pointing out the reality of the situation.

Trump told people to be peaceful prior to them trespassing.

Hitler was a socialist leftoid psychopath. Nazi society normalized hatred of Jews just like the modern left with their monopoly on media and academia is normalizing the hatred of anyone opposed to their politics.

---

How many mass shootings now committed by people wearing swastikas? I can think of at least two just this year. Those aren't "leftists", they are your people. That's what you are supporting, you are the one normalizing hatred of others.

Not for nothing, but those famous pictures of Nazis burning books, were outside the Munich Institute of Sexology. They were attacking the queer "woke" sectors of their society to "protect children". Sound familiar? For you to sit there and turn that **** around on "the left" is full on Orwellian. And no, Hitler was not a socialist in any meaningful sense of the word, he sent those people straight to the camps after he consolidated his power.

---

The differences between Nazis and "real" socialists were thoroughly sectarian. In a way they're analogous to the disputes between Catholics and Protestants. To most outsiders, a Christian is a Christian. Hitler was a socialist, albeit somewhat unorthodox.

---

The best analogy is the literally civil war between the Bolsheviks and the Mensheviks ... just because they were opposed to one another politically (in a sectarian way) did not make the Menshaviks capitalists.

---

The bitterest battles are among friends.

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

and he didnt

---

No, he used a national intimidation campaign. He used his position as. His boss to put pressure on him. So what Trump and his MAGA supporters did and said was right and legal?

---

if your boss told you to rob a bank but you didnt is it still bank robbery?

---

You tell you Assistant to commit tax fraud, you are on safe legal ground?

---

did he do it?

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

and he didnt

---

No, he used a national intimidation campaign. He used his position as. His boss to put pressure on him. So what Trump and his MAGA supporters did and said was right and legal?

---

if your boss told you to rob a bank but you didnt is it still bank robbery?

---

You tell you Assistant to commit tax fraud, you are on safe legal ground?

---

did he do it?

---

This is not about Pence. You can lose your job and be arrested for using your position to pressure your subordinate to do something illegal. White House Counsel and VP Counsel said he couldn't do it. Yet he pressured Pence to do it. Is that illegal? Well, we are going to find out.

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

That's a red herring. Parties have gone after actual presidents - that's more than "parallel." Starting with Nixon, every Pres except Obama had a special/independent counsel investigate them, and even for Obama, the GOP wanted it done relative to the gun runner scandal. GOP is after Biden now. There is nothing new about what is happening to Trump.

I've said all along, I'm not convinced the election crap is crime. But, the theories are no more flimsy than what most prior special/independent counsel have investigated (supported by the opposing party). And, I must say, the more I read about Trump's election challenges, the worse it looks. I'm still not ready to change my mind, it is really ugly.

And the documents/obstruction is a perfectly legitimate charge, and I think he's convicted absent jury nullification.

Again, the only difference is Trump's idiotic and reckless conduct.

---

You're comparing apples to oranges IMO. To me, there is a significant difference between trying to find ways to impeach a sitting president, and charging him with criminal conduct, that would effectively prevent him from running for president.

Whether you will admit it, or not, what's going on with Trump is indeed, unprecedented. Now I don't disagree with you that he's brought most if not all of this on himself. But I'm also not so naive to believe that this is anything other than a politically motivated prosecution that looks far different than anything we've seen before.

---

To be clear, all of those indep counsels were investigating and considering criminal charges, and the opposing party was calling for criminal charges. Just as our party is now against Biden.

We agree that these are politically motivated, but so have been all the others. But that doesn't make any of this unprecedented. Bringing the actual criminal charges is basically new, but it's not because neither party has tried in the past. And I continue to maintain that nobody else has done the things Trump has done.

Would we have wanted to charge Obama criminally if he stole, hid, and obstructed a fed investigation regarding classified docs? Of course we would have, just like we wanted for Hillary. And military and political figures have been indicted for less.

Again, the election challenge-related charged are a different animal, but have others done the things Trump has done? Lied in numerous state and fed court pleadings about fraud? Tried to coerce his VP into violating the constitution? Made questionable (at best) requests to "find votes?" Tried to coerce state officials into changing numbers?

---

I don't think we are that far apart. Perhaps our lone disagreement is on what the term "unprecedented" means. I don't disagree with you that special counsel has looked into criminal conduct of sitting presidents before. However, what we are seeing now with Trump in my opinion, is the militarization of law-enforcement resources - the DOJ and left wing district attorneys offices - to stop a political opponent. I think that's quite different than what we've seen before, which is why I would call such conduct unprecedented. It seems like the Rubicon has been crossed.

One other thing to mention: while Trump's recent conduct has exposed him to significant liability, it's worth noting that the criminal investigations were going on long before January 6. I mean, excuse the crude language, but the Democrats have had a hard on for Trump since 2016. Remember Russian collusion? Remember the New York Attorney General's office investigating his business dealings? This is what I'm talking about when I mean the militarization of law-enforcement resources. That is truly unprecedented.

FLBear5630 said:

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4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

and he didnt

---

No, he used a national intimidation campaign. He used his position as. His boss to put pressure on him. So what Trump and his MAGA supporters did and said was right and legal?

---

if your boss told you to rob a bank but you didnt is it still bank robbery?

---

You tell you Assistant to commit tax fraud, you are on safe legal ground?

---

did he do it?

---

This is not about Pence. You can lose your job and be arrested for using your position to pressure your subordinate to do something illegal. White House Counsel and VP Counsel said he couldn't do it. Yet he pressured Pence to do it. Is that illegal? Well, we are going to find out.

---

you are arguing he used his position to pressure a subordinate? You do realize both of them had no job in 14 days right? He had zero leverage

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

and he didnt

---

No, he used a national intimidation campaign. He used his position as. His boss to put pressure on him. So what Trump and his MAGA supporters did and said was right and legal?

---

if your boss told you to rob a bank but you didnt is it still bank robbery?

---

You tell you Assistant to commit tax fraud, you are on safe legal ground?

---

did he do it?

---

This is not about Pence. You can lose your job and be arrested for using your position to pressure your subordinate to do something illegal. White House Counsel and VP Counsel said he couldn't do it. Yet he pressured Pence to do it. Is that illegal? Well, we are going to find out.

---

you are arguing he used his position to pressure a subordinate? You do realize both of them had no job in 14 days right? He had zero leverage

---

Zero leverage except for the violent mob that coincidentally attacked Pence at exactly that moment and for utterly mysterious reasons.

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

That's a red herring. Parties have gone after actual presidents - that's more than "parallel." Starting with Nixon, every Pres except Obama had a special/independent counsel investigate them, and even for Obama, the GOP wanted it done relative to the gun runner scandal. GOP is after Biden now. There is nothing new about what is happening to Trump.

I've said all along, I'm not convinced the election crap is crime. But, the theories are no more flimsy than what most prior special/independent counsel have investigated (supported by the opposing party). And, I must say, the more I read about Trump's election challenges, the worse it looks. I'm still not ready to change my mind, it is really ugly.

And the documents/obstruction is a perfectly legitimate charge, and I think he's convicted absent jury nullification.

Again, the only difference is Trump's idiotic and reckless conduct.

---

You're comparing apples to oranges IMO. To me, there is a significant difference between trying to find ways to impeach a sitting president, and charging him with criminal conduct, that would effectively prevent him from running for president.

Whether you will admit it, or not, what's going on with Trump is indeed, unprecedented. Now I don't disagree with you that he's brought most if not all of this on himself. But I'm also not so naive to believe that this is anything other than a politically motivated prosecution that looks far different than anything we've seen before.

---

To be clear, all of those indep counsels were investigating and considering criminal charges, and the opposing party was calling for criminal charges. Just as our party is now against Biden.

We agree that these are politically motivated, but so have been all the others. But that doesn't make any of this unprecedented. Bringing the actual criminal charges is basically new, but it's not because neither party has tried in the past. And I continue to maintain that nobody else has done the things Trump has done.

Would we have wanted to charge Obama criminally if he stole, hid, and obstructed a fed investigation regarding classified docs? Of course we would have, just like we wanted for Hillary. And military and political figures have been indicted for less.

Again, the election challenge-related charged are a different animal, but have others done the things Trump has done? Lied in numerous state and fed court pleadings about fraud? Tried to coerce his VP into violating the constitution? Made questionable (at best) requests to "find votes?" Tried to coerce state officials into changing numbers?

---

I don't think we are that far apart. Perhaps our lone disagreement is on the term "unprecedented". I don't disagree with you that special counsel has looked into criminal conduct of sitting president before. However, what we are seeing now with Trump in my opinion, is the militarization of law-enforcement resources - the DOJ and left wing district attorneys offices - to stop a political opponent. I think that's quite different than what we've seen before, which is why I would call such conduct unprecedented. It seems like the Rubicon has been crossed.

One other thing to mention: while trumps recent conduct has exposed him to significant liability, it's worth noting that the criminal investigations were going on long before January 6. I mean, let's face it, the Democrats have had a hard on for Trump since 2016. Remember Russian collusion? Remember the New York Attorney General's office investigating his business dealings? This is what I'm talking about when I mean the militarization of law-enforcement resources. That is truly unprecedented.

---

This is the thoughtful answer. The Establishment has been weaponized against Trump from the FBI laundering the Clinton campaign's fake Russia dossier, the fake impeachment, "Hunter's laptop is Russian disinformation" to these banana republic legal actions.

The precedent had always been we don't use political prosecutions to interfere with elections and undermine democracy, but once again the Democrat party has respect for nothing but power and authoritarian control. We certainly did not invent novel "legal theory" to prosecute political opponents. Jack Smith has a history of political prosecutions, and the bimbo in Georgia literally ran her campaign on "get Trump." One has to be regarded to think these are not purely political prosecutions. I mean the craziest case of all is the New York suing Trump's business when the actual parties with standing are not suing him.

Some things are more important than "Orange Man Bad." Continuing to destroy trust, integrity, and basic protocol to "Get Trump" is too high a price. Obviously the authoritarian Democrats do not believe in democracy or fair elections because they simply could trust the American people to vote against Trump - no need to launch a Hitler-style Beer Hall pusch.

Sam Lowry said:

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4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

and he didnt

---

No, he used a national intimidation campaign. He used his position as. His boss to put pressure on him. So what Trump and his MAGA supporters did and said was right and legal?

---

if your boss told you to rob a bank but you didnt is it still bank robbery?

---

You tell you Assistant to commit tax fraud, you are on safe legal ground?

---

did he do it?

---

This is not about Pence. You can lose your job and be arrested for using your position to pressure your subordinate to do something illegal. White House Counsel and VP Counsel said he couldn't do it. Yet he pressured Pence to do it. Is that illegal? Well, we are going to find out.

---

you are arguing he used his position to pressure a subordinate? You do realize both of them had no job in 14 days right? He had zero leverage

---

Zero leverage except for the violent mob that coincidentally attacked Pence at exactly that moment and for utterly mysterious reasons.

---

no leverage, at all.. stop it

A mob that PREVENTED any possibility of it working. The mob hurt, not helped or provided leverage.

Come back to the real world..

They dont throw people in jail for thinking about selling drugs..

they do throw people in jail for thinking about declassifying documents.

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

and he didnt

---

No, he used a national intimidation campaign. He used his position as. His boss to put pressure on him. So what Trump and his MAGA supporters did and said was right and legal?

---

if your boss told you to rob a bank but you didnt is it still bank robbery?

---

You tell you Assistant to commit tax fraud, you are on safe legal ground?

---

did he do it?

---

This is not about Pence. You can lose your job and be arrested for using your position to pressure your subordinate to do something illegal. White House Counsel and VP Counsel said he couldn't do it. Yet he pressured Pence to do it. Is that illegal? Well, we are going to find out.

---

you are arguing he used his position to pressure a subordinate? You do realize both of them had no job in 14 days right? He had zero leverage

---

Zero leverage except for the violent mob that coincidentally attacked Pence at exactly that moment and for utterly mysterious reasons.

---

Keep your day job, Sam. You suck at creating credible stories.

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

---

Proof of what exactly? You never stumbled over an obstacle?

Waco1947 said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

---

Proof of what exactly? You never stumbled over an obstacle?

---

Don't you have a child to rape or something? Seriously you're stupidity is exhausting.

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Giving a pass is immaterial. Many have sought indictments in the judicial courts with Trump and the Bidens but no one has sought them for Hillary and that is not a pass it is just how the system works. Write your congress person and get them to investigate Hillary.

---

That is because until now, political prosecutions in this country were not a thing. But now that your party has opened Pandora's Box and has started to behave like we are a banana republic, I suspect we are going to start seeing Republican DA's and U.S. attorneys start doing the exact same thing.

As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

---

Political prosecutions have been happening forever. Too many governors, senators, congressmen, and others to count. Both parties also have tried to go after Presidents and Presidential candidates. Nothing is new about any of this. If anything is new, it's that Trump is just a despicable human being who also happens to be stupid in many ways and thinks he is above the law.

---

While I partly agree with you, this is the first time that a party has gone after a former president and the likely presidential nominee for one of the major parties before an election. And even though I agree with you on Trump being despicable, let's not pretend that all of these prosecutors, save and except the documents charge, are using statutes very creatively and in a way they've never been used to find that Trump committed a crime.

All of the above is indeed unprecedented. Name me a parallel, and I am willing to reconsider my position.

Good luck!

---

A necessary predicate to finding your desired parallel would be for you to point out an example where a losing Presidential candidate concocted a conspiracy to use forged documents and send false slates of electors to try and keep himself in office, thereby disenfranchising tens of millions of legitimate voters. The prosecution is novel because the criminal acts were novel, not really all that complicated.

So...we're waiting.

---

Al Gore Jr. in 2000.

---

Gore asked for recounts, he didn't ask for new electors!

---

He had alternate electors.

The Democrats called for electors to violate their "oath" in 2016. Should they be arrested for attempting to disenfranchise millions?

---

Trump told Pence not to accept and substitute different electors than the State submitted, that is different than convincing a duly appointed one to change their vote.

Trump could sue in Court, demand recounts and even ask officials to find more votes (giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is just how he talks). What he can't do, is force the VP to change the electors during certification.

---

and he didnt

---

No, he used a national intimidation campaign. He used his position as. His boss to put pressure on him. So what Trump and his MAGA supporters did and said was right and legal?

---

if your boss told you to rob a bank but you didnt is it still bank robbery?

---

You tell you Assistant to commit tax fraud, you are on safe legal ground?

---

did he do it?

---

This is not about Pence. You can lose your job and be arrested for using your position to pressure your subordinate to do something illegal. White House Counsel and VP Counsel said he couldn't do it. Yet he pressured Pence to do it. Is that illegal? Well, we are going to find out.

---

you are arguing he used his position to pressure a subordinate? You do realize both of them had no job in 14 days right? He had zero leverage

---

Should be no problem then. There is the little thing that at the time he was his boss and the outcome would have given Trump the White House, but that is a non-issue because Pence didn't do it. Right?

Attempting to rob a store is not a crime, only if you succeed, right? The get away driver backed out so we called it off in the middle, but no harm/no foul .. This should be a cake walk in Court for Donald.