In case anyone misinterpreted my post, I was not defending NY but rather, just summarizing the position NY is taking and that the state statute does not require a "victim."4th and Inches said:its an opinion of value.. its not fraudsombear said:GrowlTowel said:
Who is the victim that was defrauded?
According to NY, it was fraud the moment he falsified the applications.
Trumps/RE Valuation
15,975 Views |
176 Replies |
Last: 2 yr ago by FLBear5630
This obviously has been political from the start. Heck, the AG ran on it.whiterock said:on point there.4th and Inches said:its an opinion of value.. its not fraudsombear said:GrowlTowel said:
Who is the victim that was defrauded?
According to NY, it was fraud the moment he falsified the applications.
EX: Applicant submits a Financial Statement to accompany an application, based on his best estimate of what properties are worth, appraisals, tax values, replacement cost, etc.... . Bank risk dept assesses collateral value of assets is 10% less than what Applicant assesses.
Did fraud occur?
Not unless you are a Republican, running against a Democrat, in a blue jurisdiction....
But, just so everyone who has not read the judge's partial grant of summary judgment understands, the judge found that Trump's valuations were so out of whack that they were fraudulent. For example, Trump certified that his apartment was 30,000 feet when in actuality it was 11,000. And multiple properties were off by $ hundreds of millions.
Again, I'm not defending the AG or saying the judge was right. Trump still has the opportunity to further explain through witnesses. But, so far, the judge has determined these were not true valuation or opinion discrepancies, but clear fraud.
understoodsombear said:In case anyone misinterpreted my post, I was not defending NY but rather, just summarizing the position NY is taking and that the state statute does not require a "victim."4th and Inches said:its an opinion of value.. its not fraudsombear said:GrowlTowel said:
Who is the victim that was defrauded?
According to NY, it was fraud the moment he falsified the applications.
I think the hingepoint is that its not falsified if its an opinion of value..
“The Internet is just a world passing around notes in a classroom.”
Jon Stewart
Jon Stewart
Verdict today
Trial tomorrow
Trial tomorrow
I have been a partner in multiple real estate deals. Raw land, multi-family, commercial, light industrial and storage units. I have never been involved in a financial situation where the bank didn't require an appraisal from a reputable appraiser of their choosing. Never seen it before. I can't imagine that the bank truly felt like they were defrauded by Trump... since they have yet to press charges or seek restitution through a lawsuit.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.
ShooterTX
They didn't waste any time either. The law passed when Trump was ten years old.ShooterTX said:This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
On this one, I am in 100% agreement. This is a vendetta by NY. Sad. because Trump helped the City of New York and this area out in the past. This is a NY Post article documenting it. There was a time that Trump was a visionary developer, not just the caricature he has become.ShooterTX said:I have been a partner in multiple real estate deals. Raw land, multi-family, commercial, light industrial and storage units. I have never been involved in a financial situation where the bank didn't require an appraisal from a reputable appraiser of their choosing. Never seen it before. I can't imagine that the bank truly felt like they were defrauded by Trump... since they have yet to press charges or seek restitution through a lawsuit.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.
How Donald Trump helped save New York City (nypost.com)
What we're witnessing from those in power should be alarming to everyone.
This is not new.Rawhide said:
What we're witnessing from those in power should be alarming to everyone.
What do you think is going on in the minds of other business owners and executives who have their livelihoods anchored in NYS?
This will be catastrophic for New York. Now in addition to a high tax, high regulation environment, you have a government that will prosecute you if you are seen as a political adversary. Time to pack up and move to Palm Beach, Miami, Austin, Houston, Dallas, Tampa, or anywhere else perceived to be a more friendly environment.
This will be catastrophic for New York. Now in addition to a high tax, high regulation environment, you have a government that will prosecute you if you are seen as a political adversary. Time to pack up and move to Palm Beach, Miami, Austin, Houston, Dallas, Tampa, or anywhere else perceived to be a more friendly environment.
Not to mention every property owner that has their valuation for property taxes lower by the County than the market. The Judge wants Mar Lago valued at 1 billion by the County or it is fraud???Wrecks Quan Dough said:
What do you think is going on in the minds of other business owners and executives who have their livelihoods anchored in NYS?
This will be catastrophic for New York. Now in addition to a high tax, high regulation environment, you have a government that will prosecute you if you are seen as a political adversary. Time to pack up and move to Palm Beach, Miami, Austin, Houston, Dallas, Tampa, or anywhere else perceived to be a more friendly environment.
How did the judge come up with that? I have been by Mar a Lago. At the time, I had no clue what it was. I only knew it was an impressive piece of real estate. But a cool billion??FLBear5630 said:Not to mention every property owner that has their valuation for property taxes lower by the County than the market. The Judge wants Mar Lago valued at 1 billion by the County or it is fraud???Wrecks Quan Dough said:
What do you think is going on in the minds of other business owners and executives who have their livelihoods anchored in NYS?
This will be catastrophic for New York. Now in addition to a high tax, high regulation environment, you have a government that will prosecute you if you are seen as a political adversary. Time to pack up and move to Palm Beach, Miami, Austin, Houston, Dallas, Tampa, or anywhere else perceived to be a more friendly environment.
Trump came up with that. The Judge quoted the Palm County valuation at $18 million. Which is the number for the property taxes.Wrecks Quan Dough said:How did the judge come up with that? I have been by Mar a Lago. At the time, I had no clue what it was. I only knew it was an impressive piece of real estate. But a cool billion??FLBear5630 said:Not to mention every property owner that has their valuation for property taxes lower by the County than the market. The Judge wants Mar Lago valued at 1 billion by the County or it is fraud???Wrecks Quan Dough said:
What do you think is going on in the minds of other business owners and executives who have their livelihoods anchored in NYS?
This will be catastrophic for New York. Now in addition to a high tax, high regulation environment, you have a government that will prosecute you if you are seen as a political adversary. Time to pack up and move to Palm Beach, Miami, Austin, Houston, Dallas, Tampa, or anywhere else perceived to be a more friendly environment.
And the $18M is absurd. Real estate pros in Florida peg it at about $300MFLBear5630 said:Trump came up with that. The Judge quoted the Palm County valuation at $18 million. Which is the number for the property taxes.Wrecks Quan Dough said:How did the judge come up with that? I have been by Mar a Lago. At the time, I had no clue what it was. I only knew it was an impressive piece of real estate. But a cool billion??FLBear5630 said:Not to mention every property owner that has their valuation for property taxes lower by the County than the market. The Judge wants Mar Lago valued at 1 billion by the County or it is fraud???Wrecks Quan Dough said:
What do you think is going on in the minds of other business owners and executives who have their livelihoods anchored in NYS?
This will be catastrophic for New York. Now in addition to a high tax, high regulation environment, you have a government that will prosecute you if you are seen as a political adversary. Time to pack up and move to Palm Beach, Miami, Austin, Houston, Dallas, Tampa, or anywhere else perceived to be a more friendly environment.
Welcome to Florida...Rawhide said:And the $18M is absurd. Real estate pros in Florida peg it at about $300MFLBear5630 said:Trump came up with that. The Judge quoted the Palm County valuation at $18 million. Which is the number for the property taxes.Wrecks Quan Dough said:How did the judge come up with that? I have been by Mar a Lago. At the time, I had no clue what it was. I only knew it was an impressive piece of real estate. But a cool billion??FLBear5630 said:Not to mention every property owner that has their valuation for property taxes lower by the County than the market. The Judge wants Mar Lago valued at 1 billion by the County or it is fraud???Wrecks Quan Dough said:
What do you think is going on in the minds of other business owners and executives who have their livelihoods anchored in NYS?
This will be catastrophic for New York. Now in addition to a high tax, high regulation environment, you have a government that will prosecute you if you are seen as a political adversary. Time to pack up and move to Palm Beach, Miami, Austin, Houston, Dallas, Tampa, or anywhere else perceived to be a more friendly environment.
Or he's guiltyFLBear5630 said:On this one, I am in 100% agreement. This is a vendetta by NY. Sad. because Trump helped the City of New York and this area out in the past. This is a NY Post article documenting it. There was a time that Trump was a visionary developer, not just the caricature he has become.ShooterTX said:I have been a partner in multiple real estate deals. Raw land, multi-family, commercial, light industrial and storage units. I have never been involved in a financial situation where the bank didn't require an appraisal from a reputable appraiser of their choosing. Never seen it before. I can't imagine that the bank truly felt like they were defrauded by Trump... since they have yet to press charges or seek restitution through a lawsuit.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.
How Donald Trump helped save New York City (nypost.com)
Is a particular deal Trump bought/used debt in question from a value standpoint or is it his overall balance sheet that is in question?
There is guilt and guilt. In this case, he did what is a common practice and being made an example. I am sure he is guilty of the property appraisals differing from the County Property Appraiser. I would go one further, I bet the appraisal Trump did differs from Deustche Bank's and they both differ from County Property Appraisal. It happens every day in every State and every Nation. To destroy his business over this?Waco1947 said:Or he's guiltyFLBear5630 said:On this one, I am in 100% agreement. This is a vendetta by NY. Sad. because Trump helped the City of New York and this area out in the past. This is a NY Post article documenting it. There was a time that Trump was a visionary developer, not just the caricature he has become.ShooterTX said:I have been a partner in multiple real estate deals. Raw land, multi-family, commercial, light industrial and storage units. I have never been involved in a financial situation where the bank didn't require an appraisal from a reputable appraiser of their choosing. Never seen it before. I can't imagine that the bank truly felt like they were defrauded by Trump... since they have yet to press charges or seek restitution through a lawsuit.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.
How Donald Trump helped save New York City (nypost.com)
You don't want the Property Appraiser changing your property value every appraisal or Zillow reading!
This is ridiculous, unless she has more this is laughable.
Classified Docs, Jan 6th? We will see. This is a joke.
Interesting read. I have a lot of respect for Andy, and he is not a Trump guy. In fact, he believes the doc case indictment is strong and repeatedly criticized Trump for J6..
Read @AndrewCMcCarthy on the 'frighteningly crazy' New York state lawsuit against Trump now in its second day. https://t.co/PMAjrV8dzN pic.twitter.com/huYZ7Ewv32
— Byron York (@ByronYork) October 3, 2023
You are right, excellent article. This is really over the top. His approval will go to 70% after this and I don't like him or want him President.sombear said:
Interesting read. I have a lot of respect for Andy, and he is not a Trump guy. In fact, he believes the doc case indictment is strong and repeatedly criticized Trump for J6..Read @AndrewCMcCarthy on the 'frighteningly crazy' New York state lawsuit against Trump now in its second day. https://t.co/PMAjrV8dzN pic.twitter.com/huYZ7Ewv32
— Byron York (@ByronYork) October 3, 2023
never heard of somebody being guilty of an opinion.. learn something new everydayWaco1947 said:Or he's guiltyFLBear5630 said:On this one, I am in 100% agreement. This is a vendetta by NY. Sad. because Trump helped the City of New York and this area out in the past. This is a NY Post article documenting it. There was a time that Trump was a visionary developer, not just the caricature he has become.ShooterTX said:I have been a partner in multiple real estate deals. Raw land, multi-family, commercial, light industrial and storage units. I have never been involved in a financial situation where the bank didn't require an appraisal from a reputable appraiser of their choosing. Never seen it before. I can't imagine that the bank truly felt like they were defrauded by Trump... since they have yet to press charges or seek restitution through a lawsuit.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.
How Donald Trump helped save New York City (nypost.com)
“The Internet is just a world passing around notes in a classroom.”
Jon Stewart
Jon Stewart
Hydroxychloroquine can effectively treat Covid-19.4th and Inches said:never heard of somebody being guilty of an opinion.. learn something new everydayWaco1947 said:Or he's guiltyFLBear5630 said:On this one, I am in 100% agreement. This is a vendetta by NY. Sad. because Trump helped the City of New York and this area out in the past. This is a NY Post article documenting it. There was a time that Trump was a visionary developer, not just the caricature he has become.ShooterTX said:I have been a partner in multiple real estate deals. Raw land, multi-family, commercial, light industrial and storage units. I have never been involved in a financial situation where the bank didn't require an appraisal from a reputable appraiser of their choosing. Never seen it before. I can't imagine that the bank truly felt like they were defrauded by Trump... since they have yet to press charges or seek restitution through a lawsuit.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.
How Donald Trump helped save New York City (nypost.com)
GUILTY!
I invested in a REIT many years ago that, in one deal, bought a New York office building with an address associated with "garment district." They converted it over to apartments, then got the city to change the address to a side street which was associated with "financial district." When fully occupied a short number of years later, it sold for more than 2x total investment.sombear said:This obviously has been political from the start. Heck, the AG ran on it.whiterock said:on point there.4th and Inches said:its an opinion of value.. its not fraudsombear said:GrowlTowel said:
Who is the victim that was defrauded?
According to NY, it was fraud the moment he falsified the applications.
EX: Applicant submits a Financial Statement to accompany an application, based on his best estimate of what properties are worth, appraisals, tax values, replacement cost, etc.... . Bank risk dept assesses collateral value of assets is 10% less than what Applicant assesses.
Did fraud occur?
Not unless you are a Republican, running against a Democrat, in a blue jurisdiction....
But, just so everyone who has not read the judge's partial grant of summary judgment understands, the judge found that Trump's valuations were so out of whack that they were fraudulent. For example, Trump certified that his apartment was 30,000 feet when in actuality it was 11,000. And multiple properties were off by $ hundreds of millions.
Again, I'm not defending the AG or saying the judge was right. Trump still has the opportunity to further explain through witnesses. But, so far, the judge has determined these were not true valuation or opinion discrepancies, but clear fraud.
values of things can be quite soft, subjective, and the larger the property, the more that is true. Trump buys a distressed property with historic value (MAL), fixes it up, changes its use....value triples almost immediately, and over time ends up 50x cash purchase...... That is how smart operators operate. Risky business, but very conceptual, and it is their ability to perceive the concepts that make them successful.
Key is having the City connections to change the use and zoning to allow what they want. Trump was in that circle that worked with the City to get projects in blighted areas done, redevelop and Trump get tax benefits/credits. It was a nice relationship and allowed NYC to have renaissance. NYC went to far left an is now a cesspool again, just like SF. People will never realize the extremes don't work...whiterock said:I invested in a REIT many years ago that, in one deal, bought a New York office building with an address associated with "garment district." They converted it over to apartments, then got the city to change the address to a side street which was associated with "financial district." When fully occupied a short number of years later, it sold for more than 2x total investment.sombear said:This obviously has been political from the start. Heck, the AG ran on it.whiterock said:on point there.4th and Inches said:its an opinion of value.. its not fraudsombear said:GrowlTowel said:
Who is the victim that was defrauded?
According to NY, it was fraud the moment he falsified the applications.
EX: Applicant submits a Financial Statement to accompany an application, based on his best estimate of what properties are worth, appraisals, tax values, replacement cost, etc.... . Bank risk dept assesses collateral value of assets is 10% less than what Applicant assesses.
Did fraud occur?
Not unless you are a Republican, running against a Democrat, in a blue jurisdiction....
But, just so everyone who has not read the judge's partial grant of summary judgment understands, the judge found that Trump's valuations were so out of whack that they were fraudulent. For example, Trump certified that his apartment was 30,000 feet when in actuality it was 11,000. And multiple properties were off by $ hundreds of millions.
Again, I'm not defending the AG or saying the judge was right. Trump still has the opportunity to further explain through witnesses. But, so far, the judge has determined these were not true valuation or opinion discrepancies, but clear fraud.
values of things can be quite soft, subjective, and the larger the property, the more that is true. Trump buys a distressed property with historic value (MAL), fixes it up, changes its use....value triples almost immediately, and over time ends up 50x cash purchase...... That is how smart operators operate. Risky business, but very conceptual, and it is their ability to perceive the concepts that make them successful.
He's guilty. That's been determined.FLBear5630 said:There is guilt and guilt. In this case, he did what is a common practice and being made an example. I am sure he is guilty of the property appraisals differing from the County Property Appraiser. I would go one further, I bet the appraisal Trump did differs from Deustche Bank's and they both differ from County Property Appraisal. It happens every day in every State and every Nation. To destroy his business over this?Waco1947 said:Or he's guiltyFLBear5630 said:On this one, I am in 100% agreement. This is a vendetta by NY. Sad. because Trump helped the City of New York and this area out in the past. This is a NY Post article documenting it. There was a time that Trump was a visionary developer, not just the caricature he has become.ShooterTX said:I have been a partner in multiple real estate deals. Raw land, multi-family, commercial, light industrial and storage units. I have never been involved in a financial situation where the bank didn't require an appraisal from a reputable appraiser of their choosing. Never seen it before. I can't imagine that the bank truly felt like they were defrauded by Trump... since they have yet to press charges or seek restitution through a lawsuit.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.
How Donald Trump helped save New York City (nypost.com)
You don't want the Property Appraiser changing your property value every appraisal or Zillow reading!
This is ridiculous, unless she has more this is laughable.
Classified Docs, Jan 6th? We will see. This is a joke.
Thank you for channeling the Red Queen, Waco, but the adults did not ask for that.Waco1947 said:He's guilty. That's been determined.FLBear5630 said:There is guilt and guilt. In this case, he did what is a common practice and being made an example. I am sure he is guilty of the property appraisals differing from the County Property Appraiser. I would go one further, I bet the appraisal Trump did differs from Deustche Bank's and they both differ from County Property Appraisal. It happens every day in every State and every Nation. To destroy his business over this?Waco1947 said:Or he's guiltyFLBear5630 said:On this one, I am in 100% agreement. This is a vendetta by NY. Sad. because Trump helped the City of New York and this area out in the past. This is a NY Post article documenting it. There was a time that Trump was a visionary developer, not just the caricature he has become.ShooterTX said:I have been a partner in multiple real estate deals. Raw land, multi-family, commercial, light industrial and storage units. I have never been involved in a financial situation where the bank didn't require an appraisal from a reputable appraiser of their choosing. Never seen it before. I can't imagine that the bank truly felt like they were defrauded by Trump... since they have yet to press charges or seek restitution through a lawsuit.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.
How Donald Trump helped save New York City (nypost.com)
You don't want the Property Appraiser changing your property value every appraisal or Zillow reading!
This is ridiculous, unless she has more this is laughable.
Classified Docs, Jan 6th? We will see. This is a joke.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
I don't think many on here get that people's lives are impacted by the actions we discuss. This case is a joke. As many on here know, I have no issue indicting on real crimes, but when the evidence shows this. It is laughable, if not that it is for real.Oldbear83 said:Thank you for channeling the Red Queen, Waco, but the adults did not ask for that.Waco1947 said:He's guilty. That's been determined.FLBear5630 said:There is guilt and guilt. In this case, he did what is a common practice and being made an example. I am sure he is guilty of the property appraisals differing from the County Property Appraiser. I would go one further, I bet the appraisal Trump did differs from Deustche Bank's and they both differ from County Property Appraisal. It happens every day in every State and every Nation. To destroy his business over this?Waco1947 said:Or he's guiltyFLBear5630 said:On this one, I am in 100% agreement. This is a vendetta by NY. Sad. because Trump helped the City of New York and this area out in the past. This is a NY Post article documenting it. There was a time that Trump was a visionary developer, not just the caricature he has become.ShooterTX said:I have been a partner in multiple real estate deals. Raw land, multi-family, commercial, light industrial and storage units. I have never been involved in a financial situation where the bank didn't require an appraisal from a reputable appraiser of their choosing. Never seen it before. I can't imagine that the bank truly felt like they were defrauded by Trump... since they have yet to press charges or seek restitution through a lawsuit.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.
How Donald Trump helped save New York City (nypost.com)
You don't want the Property Appraiser changing your property value every appraisal or Zillow reading!
This is ridiculous, unless she has more this is laughable.
Classified Docs, Jan 6th? We will see. This is a joke.
This is where I start to get mad. At the end of the day, Trump does not matter to me, but courts are big on precedent, and if the prosecutor can get Trump thrown into prison by blowing non-crimes into felonies, you had better understand that the average Schmoe has no chance when the government goes after him.FLBear5630 said:I don't think many on here get that people's lives are impacted by the actions we discuss. This case is a joke. As many on here know, I have no issue indicting on real crimes, but when the evidence shows this. It is laughable, if not that it is for real.Oldbear83 said:Thank you for channeling the Red Queen, Waco, but the adults did not ask for that.Waco1947 said:He's guilty. That's been determined.FLBear5630 said:There is guilt and guilt. In this case, he did what is a common practice and being made an example. I am sure he is guilty of the property appraisals differing from the County Property Appraiser. I would go one further, I bet the appraisal Trump did differs from Deustche Bank's and they both differ from County Property Appraisal. It happens every day in every State and every Nation. To destroy his business over this?Waco1947 said:Or he's guiltyFLBear5630 said:On this one, I am in 100% agreement. This is a vendetta by NY. Sad. because Trump helped the City of New York and this area out in the past. This is a NY Post article documenting it. There was a time that Trump was a visionary developer, not just the caricature he has become.ShooterTX said:I have been a partner in multiple real estate deals. Raw land, multi-family, commercial, light industrial and storage units. I have never been involved in a financial situation where the bank didn't require an appraisal from a reputable appraiser of their choosing. Never seen it before. I can't imagine that the bank truly felt like they were defrauded by Trump... since they have yet to press charges or seek restitution through a lawsuit.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.
How Donald Trump helped save New York City (nypost.com)
You don't want the Property Appraiser changing your property value every appraisal or Zillow reading!
This is ridiculous, unless she has more this is laughable.
Classified Docs, Jan 6th? We will see. This is a joke.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:This is where I start to get mad. At the end of the day, Trump does not matter to me, but courts are big on precedent, and if the prosecutor can get Trump thrown into prison by blowing non-crimes into felonies, you had better understand that the average Schmoe has no chance when the government goes after him.FLBear5630 said:I don't think many on here get that people's lives are impacted by the actions we discuss. This case is a joke. As many on here know, I have no issue indicting on real crimes, but when the evidence shows this. It is laughable, if not that it is for real.Oldbear83 said:Thank you for channeling the Red Queen, Waco, but the adults did not ask for that.Waco1947 said:He's guilty. That's been determined.FLBear5630 said:There is guilt and guilt. In this case, he did what is a common practice and being made an example. I am sure he is guilty of the property appraisals differing from the County Property Appraiser. I would go one further, I bet the appraisal Trump did differs from Deustche Bank's and they both differ from County Property Appraisal. It happens every day in every State and every Nation. To destroy his business over this?Waco1947 said:Or he's guiltyFLBear5630 said:On this one, I am in 100% agreement. This is a vendetta by NY. Sad. because Trump helped the City of New York and this area out in the past. This is a NY Post article documenting it. There was a time that Trump was a visionary developer, not just the caricature he has become.ShooterTX said:I have been a partner in multiple real estate deals. Raw land, multi-family, commercial, light industrial and storage units. I have never been involved in a financial situation where the bank didn't require an appraisal from a reputable appraiser of their choosing. Never seen it before. I can't imagine that the bank truly felt like they were defrauded by Trump... since they have yet to press charges or seek restitution through a lawsuit.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.
How Donald Trump helped save New York City (nypost.com)
You don't want the Property Appraiser changing your property value every appraisal or Zillow reading!
This is ridiculous, unless she has more this is laughable.
Classified Docs, Jan 6th? We will see. This is a joke.
You just described the secondary purpose of all of this. The main purpose is to destroy Trump as a political threat or force, or at least bog him down enough with manufactured legal issues that he can't effectively campaign for office. The secondary purpose is to send a strong clear message to anybody else contemplating threatening to expose or upset in any way the deep state's corrupt apple cart that you will be persecuted and destroyed as well by whatever means necessary.
And no matter how you feel about Trump and his supporters, this should seriously scare the living crap out of you because it is a classic tool totalitarian regimes use to intimidate and stifle any dissent or opposition and it is diametrically opposed to what America has always stood for as well as our Constitution itself.
A difference of opinion is on trial in all of the cases against Trump.4th and Inches said:understoodsombear said:In case anyone misinterpreted my post, I was not defending NY but rather, just summarizing the position NY is taking and that the state statute does not require a "victim."4th and Inches said:its an opinion of value.. its not fraudsombear said:GrowlTowel said:
Who is the victim that was defrauded?
According to NY, it was fraud the moment he falsified the applications.
I think the hingepoint is that its not falsified if its an opinion of value..
That has been the message to the American people since Trump's home got raided by the FBI.Oldbear83 said:At the end of the day, Trump does not matter to me, but courts are big on precedent, and if the prosecutor can get Trump thrown into prison by blowing non-crimes into felonies, you had better understand that the average Schmoe has no chance when the government goes after him.FLBear5630 said:I don't think many on here get that people's lives are impacted by the actions we discuss. This case is a joke. As many on here know, I have no issue indicting on real crimes, but when the evidence shows this. It is laughable, if not that it is for real.Oldbear83 said:Thank you for channeling the Red Queen, Waco, but the adults did not ask for that.Waco1947 said:He's guilty. That's been determined.FLBear5630 said:There is guilt and guilt. In this case, he did what is a common practice and being made an example. I am sure he is guilty of the property appraisals differing from the County Property Appraiser. I would go one further, I bet the appraisal Trump did differs from Deustche Bank's and they both differ from County Property Appraisal. It happens every day in every State and every Nation. To destroy his business over this?Waco1947 said:Or he's guiltyFLBear5630 said:On this one, I am in 100% agreement. This is a vendetta by NY. Sad. because Trump helped the City of New York and this area out in the past. This is a NY Post article documenting it. There was a time that Trump was a visionary developer, not just the caricature he has become.ShooterTX said:I have been a partner in multiple real estate deals. Raw land, multi-family, commercial, light industrial and storage units. I have never been involved in a financial situation where the bank didn't require an appraisal from a reputable appraiser of their choosing. Never seen it before. I can't imagine that the bank truly felt like they were defrauded by Trump... since they have yet to press charges or seek restitution through a lawsuit.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.
How Donald Trump helped save New York City (nypost.com)
You don't want the Property Appraiser changing your property value every appraisal or Zillow reading!
This is ridiculous, unless she has more this is laughable.
Classified Docs, Jan 6th? We will see. This is a joke.
' If you show up on our radar; you're next.'
KaiBear said:That has been the message to the American people since Trump's home got raided by the FBI.Oldbear83 said:At the end of the day, Trump does not matter to me, but courts are big on precedent, and if the prosecutor can get Trump thrown into prison by blowing non-crimes into felonies, you had better understand that the average Schmoe has no chance when the government goes after him.FLBear5630 said:I don't think many on here get that people's lives are impacted by the actions we discuss. This case is a joke. As many on here know, I have no issue indicting on real crimes, but when the evidence shows this. It is laughable, if not that it is for real.Oldbear83 said:Thank you for channeling the Red Queen, Waco, but the adults did not ask for that.Waco1947 said:He's guilty. That's been determined.FLBear5630 said:There is guilt and guilt. In this case, he did what is a common practice and being made an example. I am sure he is guilty of the property appraisals differing from the County Property Appraiser. I would go one further, I bet the appraisal Trump did differs from Deustche Bank's and they both differ from County Property Appraisal. It happens every day in every State and every Nation. To destroy his business over this?Waco1947 said:Or he's guiltyFLBear5630 said:On this one, I am in 100% agreement. This is a vendetta by NY. Sad. because Trump helped the City of New York and this area out in the past. This is a NY Post article documenting it. There was a time that Trump was a visionary developer, not just the caricature he has become.ShooterTX said:I have been a partner in multiple real estate deals. Raw land, multi-family, commercial, light industrial and storage units. I have never been involved in a financial situation where the bank didn't require an appraisal from a reputable appraiser of their choosing. Never seen it before. I can't imagine that the bank truly felt like they were defrauded by Trump... since they have yet to press charges or seek restitution through a lawsuit.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.
How Donald Trump helped save New York City (nypost.com)
You don't want the Property Appraiser changing your property value every appraisal or Zillow reading!
This is ridiculous, unless she has more this is laughable.
Classified Docs, Jan 6th? We will see. This is a joke.
' If you show up on our radar; you're next.'
Problem is how do you know it is fake. Take classified docs, if they have proof he showed nuclear sub deployments to a Aussie, that is an issue. This NY case is a joke. Jan 6th, how much did he play into it? Stormy, who cares.?
Very simple.FLBear5630 said:KaiBear said:That has been the message to the American people since Trump's home got raided by the FBI.Oldbear83 said:At the end of the day, Trump does not matter to me, but courts are big on precedent, and if the prosecutor can get Trump thrown into prison by blowing non-crimes into felonies, you had better understand that the average Schmoe has no chance when the government goes after him.FLBear5630 said:I don't think many on here get that people's lives are impacted by the actions we discuss. This case is a joke. As many on here know, I have no issue indicting on real crimes, but when the evidence shows this. It is laughable, if not that it is for real.Oldbear83 said:Thank you for channeling the Red Queen, Waco, but the adults did not ask for that.Waco1947 said:He's guilty. That's been determined.FLBear5630 said:There is guilt and guilt. In this case, he did what is a common practice and being made an example. I am sure he is guilty of the property appraisals differing from the County Property Appraiser. I would go one further, I bet the appraisal Trump did differs from Deustche Bank's and they both differ from County Property Appraisal. It happens every day in every State and every Nation. To destroy his business over this?Waco1947 said:Or he's guiltyFLBear5630 said:On this one, I am in 100% agreement. This is a vendetta by NY. Sad. because Trump helped the City of New York and this area out in the past. This is a NY Post article documenting it. There was a time that Trump was a visionary developer, not just the caricature he has become.ShooterTX said:I have been a partner in multiple real estate deals. Raw land, multi-family, commercial, light industrial and storage units. I have never been involved in a financial situation where the bank didn't require an appraisal from a reputable appraiser of their choosing. Never seen it before. I can't imagine that the bank truly felt like they were defrauded by Trump... since they have yet to press charges or seek restitution through a lawsuit.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.
How Donald Trump helped save New York City (nypost.com)
You don't want the Property Appraiser changing your property value every appraisal or Zillow reading!
This is ridiculous, unless she has more this is laughable.
Classified Docs, Jan 6th? We will see. This is a joke.
' If you show up on our radar; you're next.'
Problem is how do you know it is fake.
Tell we which of these 'charges' brought on by the Biden administration, or other Dem operatives would have been filed on either Bill Clinton or Barrack Obama under the EXACT same circumstances.
Now you and every other intelligent individual already knows the answer.
Will any Dem partisan say it out loud; nope.
Like I said, from the information available from ALL sources not just Newsmax or MSNBC. I have come to the following conclusion to date, more will follow as more real court-quality facts come out.KaiBear said:Very simple.FLBear5630 said:KaiBear said:That has been the message to the American people since Trump's home got raided by the FBI.Oldbear83 said:At the end of the day, Trump does not matter to me, but courts are big on precedent, and if the prosecutor can get Trump thrown into prison by blowing non-crimes into felonies, you had better understand that the average Schmoe has no chance when the government goes after him.FLBear5630 said:I don't think many on here get that people's lives are impacted by the actions we discuss. This case is a joke. As many on here know, I have no issue indicting on real crimes, but when the evidence shows this. It is laughable, if not that it is for real.Oldbear83 said:Thank you for channeling the Red Queen, Waco, but the adults did not ask for that.Waco1947 said:He's guilty. That's been determined.FLBear5630 said:There is guilt and guilt. In this case, he did what is a common practice and being made an example. I am sure he is guilty of the property appraisals differing from the County Property Appraiser. I would go one further, I bet the appraisal Trump did differs from Deustche Bank's and they both differ from County Property Appraisal. It happens every day in every State and every Nation. To destroy his business over this?Waco1947 said:Or he's guiltyFLBear5630 said:On this one, I am in 100% agreement. This is a vendetta by NY. Sad. because Trump helped the City of New York and this area out in the past. This is a NY Post article documenting it. There was a time that Trump was a visionary developer, not just the caricature he has become.ShooterTX said:I have been a partner in multiple real estate deals. Raw land, multi-family, commercial, light industrial and storage units. I have never been involved in a financial situation where the bank didn't require an appraisal from a reputable appraiser of their choosing. Never seen it before. I can't imagine that the bank truly felt like they were defrauded by Trump... since they have yet to press charges or seek restitution through a lawsuit.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.
How Donald Trump helped save New York City (nypost.com)
You don't want the Property Appraiser changing your property value every appraisal or Zillow reading!
This is ridiculous, unless she has more this is laughable.
Classified Docs, Jan 6th? We will see. This is a joke.
' If you show up on our radar; you're next.'
Problem is how do you know it is fake.
Tell we which of these 'charges' brought on by the Biden administration, or other Dem operatives would have been filed on either Bill Clinton or Barrack Obama under the EXACT same circumstances.
Now you and every other intelligent individual already knows the answer.
Will any Dem partisan say it out loud; nope.
1 - Stormy Daniels - Political hack job, not a real case. Who cares? They are both adults.
2 - Real Estate Valuation NY - Political hack job, not a real. This case can actually hurt NY! This is laughable and potentially harmful to NY.
3 - Jan 6th - Don't know yet. Be interesting to see what they bring forward and how it stands up to scrutiny. There is enough smoke here and people testifying for this going forward. Jan 6th was monumental and catastrophic, sorry but if there is enough for a Grand Jury I want to see it play out. Not political.
4 - Classified Docs - Don't know yet. Depends on what he has and what he showed people. I look at it a little differently, if the Feds believed there was sensitive information to the point of seizing it, I want to see what he had. Sorry, want to see this play out.
Now, would others bring charges? I don't know, but they and nobody else to date is like Trump. Whether you like him or not, he is capable of doing things others would never dream of doing if it made him look good. That changes reasonable doubt to me.
FWIW, ABC News was careful last night to specify that Trump allegedly spoke about subs but did notFLBear5630 said:KaiBear said:That has been the message to the American people since Trump's home got raided by the FBI.Oldbear83 said:At the end of the day, Trump does not matter to me, but courts are big on precedent, and if the prosecutor can get Trump thrown into prison by blowing non-crimes into felonies, you had better understand that the average Schmoe has no chance when the government goes after him.FLBear5630 said:I don't think many on here get that people's lives are impacted by the actions we discuss. This case is a joke. As many on here know, I have no issue indicting on real crimes, but when the evidence shows this. It is laughable, if not that it is for real.Oldbear83 said:Thank you for channeling the Red Queen, Waco, but the adults did not ask for that.Waco1947 said:He's guilty. That's been determined.FLBear5630 said:There is guilt and guilt. In this case, he did what is a common practice and being made an example. I am sure he is guilty of the property appraisals differing from the County Property Appraiser. I would go one further, I bet the appraisal Trump did differs from Deustche Bank's and they both differ from County Property Appraisal. It happens every day in every State and every Nation. To destroy his business over this?Waco1947 said:Or he's guiltyFLBear5630 said:On this one, I am in 100% agreement. This is a vendetta by NY. Sad. because Trump helped the City of New York and this area out in the past. This is a NY Post article documenting it. There was a time that Trump was a visionary developer, not just the caricature he has become.ShooterTX said:I have been a partner in multiple real estate deals. Raw land, multi-family, commercial, light industrial and storage units. I have never been involved in a financial situation where the bank didn't require an appraisal from a reputable appraiser of their choosing. Never seen it before. I can't imagine that the bank truly felt like they were defrauded by Trump... since they have yet to press charges or seek restitution through a lawsuit.FLBear5630 said:I have no idea of the inner workings of a bank or financial institutions and I have to admit bean-counters are not my favorite people for a myriad of reasons. But, I have been on numerous development teams over the last 30 years for land development doing the traffic engineering.ShooterTX said:J.R. said:That is not how it works. I have owned a large bank. I think I know what bank fraud is. That is fraud. If its wasn't such an absolute fraud, then the judge is going to liquidate his businesses in NY. You don't think that is serious?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Donald Trump took out loans from banks. Donald Trump paid the loans back. Donald Trump was happy. The banks were happy. You TDSers are NEVER happy.J.R. said:What about that do you not understand?RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Trump took out loans and paid them back. With interest. Isn't that how things are supposed to work? When lending money, any credible bank will do their due diligence regarding property valuations. Please explain where a crime took place. Thanks in advance.J.R. said:
I'm not going to tell you I told you so, Trump is a crook. I'm astonished that this hasn't been brought up. I told you good Trumpers that he is NO billionaire. Grossly overvaluing real estate when getting a loan from lenders is your basic FRAUD. Furthermore, the fraud was so agreedous that the judge has suspending crooks license to do business in NY. That has to hurt that clown. You guys really want someone like this to the your President. Oh, and also, he called for the assignation for Gen. Millie (sp ) Just who in the F does this? This dud is unhinged.
P.S.- I am glad that P U S S Y Mark Milley has stepped down. He was more focused on pronouns and "white rage" than keeping our country safe. Good riddance.
If your bank didn't do its own appraisals, but merely trusted the person applying for the loan... then you didn't own a bank, you owned a failure.
It's on the bank to do the appraisal. If they didn't, then they are stupid AF.
In my experience an independent 3rd party appraisal is required by the bank and the developer pays for it. As with every developer I have worked with you have your own analysis and know the answers before you are going for financing. I would have to believe the bank has its own due diligence or at least they let you believe they are the smartest people in the room.
That said, you would be shocked at the number of organizations (financial and governmental) that send in their junior staff for the methodology discussions, I guarantee the developers have the A team in their and those institutions give away the farm without even realizing it because we have the answers before the meeting.
This is something generated by the DNC, to try and pile on to the lawfare against their biggest enemy.
How Donald Trump helped save New York City (nypost.com)
You don't want the Property Appraiser changing your property value every appraisal or Zillow reading!
This is ridiculous, unless she has more this is laughable.
Classified Docs, Jan 6th? We will see. This is a joke.
' If you show up on our radar; you're next.'
Problem is how do you know it is fake. Take classified docs, if they have proof he showed nuclear sub deployments to a Aussie, that is an issue. This NY case is a joke. Jan 6th, how much did he play into it? Stormy, who cares.?
a) show any actual documents to the Australian guy, or
b) reveal any actual classified information in the conversation
ABC News repeatedly described the information as 'sensitive' while repeated that no clear violation of law occurred.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier