TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:
Married A Horn said:
Porteroso said:
I'm pretty disappointed with Vance. From the transcript, Vance basically stepped in and tried to power play Zelensky. Just dumb, and of course Trump wants to be worshipped, not told that if Russia keeps invading, the US will "feel influenced." Trump responds with "We are going to feel very good and very strong." and it just devolves from there.
You know what though, let me post the transcript. You guys just read it for yourself. I think it's embarrassing. This isn't the time to hold Zelensky to account, it's the time to end the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It's ok if Zelensky says a few words, he's about to hand over 50% of Ukraine's rare earths to the United States.
I don't think this is the full transcript, but sections, from the AP.
Quote:
Vance: "For four years, the United States of America, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. The path to peace and the path to prosperity is, maybe, engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden, of thumping our chest and pretending that the president of the United States' words mattered more than the president of the United States' actions. What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. That's what President Trump is doing."
Zelenskyy: "Can I ask you?"
Vance: "Sure. Yeah."
Zelenskyy: "OK. So he (Putin) occupied it, our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of east and Crimea. So he occupied it in 2014. So during a lot of years I'm not speaking about just Biden, but those times was (Barack) Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump. And God bless, now, President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the --"
Trump: "2015?"
Zelenskyy: "2014."
Trump: "Oh, 2014? I was not here."
Vance: "That's exactly right."
Zelenskyy: "Yes, but during 2014 'til 2022, the situation is the same, that people have been dying on the contact line. Nobody stopped him. You know that we had conversations with him, a lot of conversations, my bilateral conversation. And we signed with him, me, like, you, president, in 2019, I signed with him the deal. I signed with him, (French President Emmanuel) Macron and (former German Chancellor Angela) Merkel. We signed ceasefire. Ceasefire. All of them told me that he will never go … But after that, he broke the ceasefire, he killed our people, and he didn't exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners. But he didn't do it. What kind of diplomacy, JD, you are speaking about? What do you mean?"
Vance: "I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country. Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office to try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict."
Zelenskyy: "Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?"
Vance: "I have been to "
Zelenskyy: "Come once."
Vance: "I've actually watched and seen the stories, and I know that what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President. Do you disagree that you've had problems, bringing people into your military?"
Zelenskyy: "We have problems "
Vance: "And do you think that is respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country?"
Zelenskyy: "A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning."
Vance: "Sure."
Zelenskyy: "First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don't feel now. But you will feel it in the future. God bless "
Trump: "You don't know that. You don't know that. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel."
Zelenskyy: "I'm not telling you. I am answering on these questions."
Trump: "Because you're in no position to dictate that."
Vance: "That's exactly what you're doing."
Trump: "You are in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. We're going to feel very good."
Zelenskyy: "You will feel influenced."
Trump: "We are going to feel very good and very strong."
Zelenskyy: "I am telling you. You will feel influenced."
Trump: "You're, right now, not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position "
Zelenskyy: "From the very beginning of the war "
Trump: "You're not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards."
Zelenskyy: "I'm not playing cards. I'm very serious, Mr. President. I'm very serious."
Trump: "You're playing cards. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War III."
Zelenskyy: "What are you speaking about?"
Trump: "You're gambling with World War III. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country that's backed you far more than a lot of people said they should have."
Vance: "Have you said thank you once?"
Zelenskyy: "A lot of times. Even today."
Vance: "No, in this entire meeting. You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October."
Zelenskyy: "No."
Vance: "Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who's trying to save your country."
Zelenskyy: "Please. You think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you can "
Trump: "He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble."
Zelenskyy: "Can I answer "
Trump: "No, no. You've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble."
Zelenskyy: "I know. I know."
Trump: "You're not winning. You're not winning this. You have a damn good chance of coming out OK because of us."
Zelenskyy: "Mr. President, we are staying in our country, staying strong. From the very beginning of the war, we've been alone. And we are thankful. I said thanks."
Trump: "If you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks."
Zelenskyy: "In three days. I heard it from Putin. In three days."
Trump: "Maybe less. It's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this, I tell you.
Vance: "Just say thank you."
Zelenskyy: "I said a lot of times, thank you, to American people."
Vance: "Accept that there are disagreements, and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media when you're wrong. We know that you're wrong."
Trump: "But you see, I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on. I think it's very important. That's why I kept this going so long. You have to be thankful."
Zelenskyy: "I'm thankful."
Trump: "You don't have the cards. You're buried there. People are dying. You're running low on soldiers. It would be a damn good thing, and then you tell us, 'I don't want a ceasefire. I don't want a ceasefire, I want to go, and I want this.' Look, if you can get a ceasefire right now, I tell you, you take it so the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed."
Zelenskyy: "Of course we want to stop the war. But I said to you, with guarantees."
Trump: "Are you saying you don't want a ceasefire? I want a ceasefire. Because you'll get a ceasefire faster than an agreement."
Zelenskyy: "Ask our people about a ceasefire, what they think."
Trump: "That wasn't with me. That was with a guy named Biden, who is not a smart person."
Zelenskyy: "This is your president. It was your president."
Trump: "Excuse me. That was with Obama, who gave you sheets, and I gave you Javelins. I gave you the Javelins to take out all those tanks. Obama gave you sheets. In fact, the statement is Obama gave sheets, and Trump gave Javelins. You've got to be more thankful because let me tell you, you don't have the cards. With us, you have the cards, but without us, you don't have any cards."
We're not surprised you're disappointed at Vance. Post when you actually say something that will surprise us.
Zelensky just had to keep his mouth shut after Vance said Trump was a strong actions president. But no, Zelensky just had to try and pander to the media. Then instead of just shutting up and politely relent and move behind closed doors, he had to argue.
I guarantee he and his advisors saw Macron's visit and they thought he should stand up to Trump and be tough on TV. Clearly he got bad advice.
Plus this guy came and effectively campaigned against Trump. Seems like he'd have been a better guest.
Consider what they're talking about, what this proposed deal is. I haven't followed it too closely, but it seems Trump wants natural resources in return for nothing more than talking to Putin and getting a cease fire, then he wants to do "diplomacy" and negotiate a long term peace deal.
So the very last thing any Ukranian would do would be to say "oh sure, let me keep my mouth shut when they talk about strong action." Because there were already documents signed after Crimea, and guess what happened? There is no trusting Russia's word, and it remains to be seen even how much sway Trump has over Putin. That's what this is boiling down to.
I just think it's embarrassing. Zelensky is trying to get peace for his war torn nation, and Vance is counting how many times he says thank you per conversation. How you could support that is just insane.
