Obamacare

15,940 Views | 264 Replies | Last: 3 mo ago by EatMoreSalmon
EatMoreSalmon
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FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.

FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.
EatMoreSalmon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.


You're not reading my full posts. That is addressed.
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.


You're not reading my full posts. That is addressed.

No, I did. The question was about the subsidies that came about in 2020.

You just said they went back to the original subsidies, which were before 202. That is not what I said.
EatMoreSalmon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.


You're not reading my full posts. That is addressed.

No, I did. The question was about the subsidies that came about in 2020.

You just said they went back to the original subsidies, which were before 202. That is not what I said.


I addressed those with major medical conditions. You are being obstinate.
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.


You're not reading my full posts. That is addressed.

No, I did. The question was about the subsidies that came about in 2020.

You just said they went back to the original subsidies, which were before 202. That is not what I said.


I addressed those with major medical conditions. You are being obstinate.

No I am not. I DON'T AGREE with you. You are saying inflation is more of a problem, I do not agree. Not doing the 2020 subsidies is causing greater harm in the short term than what we think will happen in the long term.
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.

Amen.

I would only add that it's not just about empathy. If we want people to be productive, they need to be alive and healthy.
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.

Amen.

I would only add that it's not just about empathy. If we want people to be productive, they need to be alive and healthy.

I am all for "value engineering" the Budget. But, it can't be done at the expense of providing the services that the Government committed to providing. Come up with a solution and swap them out, but you can't leave people that have nothing to do with the politics hanging. ACA went up 114%, doubled. How many people's budgets can absorb that? Or, tell the doctor you don't want dialysis this month?
EatMoreSalmon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.


You're not reading my full posts. That is addressed.

No, I did. The question was about the subsidies that came about in 2020.

You just said they went back to the original subsidies, which were before 202. That is not what I said.


I addressed those with major medical conditions. You are being obstinate.

No I am not. I DON'T AGREE with you. You are saying inflation is more of a problem, I do not agree. Not doing the 2020 subsidies is causing greater harm in the short term than what we think will happen in the long term.

Don't agree then. But you will be proven wrong in the long run. Those same people harmed now will be in worse position as time goes on, not better. Take care of the major medical issues for those who need it right now using other programs. That takes care of most of your concerns and arguments.
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.


You're not reading my full posts. That is addressed.

No, I did. The question was about the subsidies that came about in 2020.

You just said they went back to the original subsidies, which were before 202. That is not what I said.


I addressed those with major medical conditions. You are being obstinate.

No I am not. I DON'T AGREE with you. You are saying inflation is more of a problem, I do not agree. Not doing the 2020 subsidies is causing greater harm in the short term than what we think will happen in the long term.

Don't agree then. But you will be proven wrong in the long run. Those same people harmed now will be in worse position as time goes on, not better. Take care of the major medical issues for those who need it right now using other programs. That takes care of most of your concerns and arguments.

17 Republicans vote to restore lapsed Obamacare subsidies
EatMoreSalmon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.


You're not reading my full posts. That is addressed.

No, I did. The question was about the subsidies that came about in 2020.

You just said they went back to the original subsidies, which were before 202. That is not what I said.


I addressed those with major medical conditions. You are being obstinate.

No I am not. I DON'T AGREE with you. You are saying inflation is more of a problem, I do not agree. Not doing the 2020 subsidies is causing greater harm in the short term than what we think will happen in the long term.

Don't agree then. But you will be proven wrong in the long run. Those same people harmed now will be in worse position as time goes on, not better. Take care of the major medical issues for those who need it right now using other programs. That takes care of most of your concerns and arguments.

17 Republicans vote to restore lapsed Obamacare subsidies

17 Republicans don't have any better answers than you do.
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.


You're not reading my full posts. That is addressed.

No, I did. The question was about the subsidies that came about in 2020.

You just said they went back to the original subsidies, which were before 202. That is not what I said.


I addressed those with major medical conditions. You are being obstinate.

No I am not. I DON'T AGREE with you. You are saying inflation is more of a problem, I do not agree. Not doing the 2020 subsidies is causing greater harm in the short term than what we think will happen in the long term.

Don't agree then. But you will be proven wrong in the long run. Those same people harmed now will be in worse position as time goes on, not better. Take care of the major medical issues for those who need it right now using other programs. That takes care of most of your concerns and arguments.

17 Republicans vote to restore lapsed Obamacare subsidies

17 Republicans don't have any better answers than you do.

But you do? Ha!
EatMoreSalmon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.


You're not reading my full posts. That is addressed.

No, I did. The question was about the subsidies that came about in 2020.

You just said they went back to the original subsidies, which were before 202. That is not what I said.


I addressed those with major medical conditions. You are being obstinate.

No I am not. I DON'T AGREE with you. You are saying inflation is more of a problem, I do not agree. Not doing the 2020 subsidies is causing greater harm in the short term than what we think will happen in the long term.

Don't agree then. But you will be proven wrong in the long run. Those same people harmed now will be in worse position as time goes on, not better. Take care of the major medical issues for those who need it right now using other programs. That takes care of most of your concerns and arguments.

17 Republicans vote to restore lapsed Obamacare subsidies

17 Republicans don't have any better answers than you do.

But you do? Ha!


You and the 17 republicans can celebrate the collapse of the system for not facing it head on. Poor kick the can vote. Which is all you've shown.
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.


You're not reading my full posts. That is addressed.

No, I did. The question was about the subsidies that came about in 2020.

You just said they went back to the original subsidies, which were before 202. That is not what I said.


I addressed those with major medical conditions. You are being obstinate.

No I am not. I DON'T AGREE with you. You are saying inflation is more of a problem, I do not agree. Not doing the 2020 subsidies is causing greater harm in the short term than what we think will happen in the long term.

Don't agree then. But you will be proven wrong in the long run. Those same people harmed now will be in worse position as time goes on, not better. Take care of the major medical issues for those who need it right now using other programs. That takes care of most of your concerns and arguments.

17 Republicans vote to restore lapsed Obamacare subsidies

17 Republicans don't have any better answers than you do.

But you do? Ha!


You and the 17 republicans can celebrate the collapse of the system for not facing it head on. Poor kick the can vote. Which is all you've shown.


Yeah, but those people can get their dialysis, chemo, insulin, and surgeries. They can keep paying their bills and getting their kids inoculations.
All while you Patriots continue to argue and debate and do nothing. You have had 14 years and nothing.

But, you will be able to say how you held the line. While others physically pay the price.
KaiBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.

Amen.

I would only add that it's not just about empathy. If we want people to be productive, they need to be alive and healthy.


Maybe if so many were not fat hogs they would live longer and be healthier.
EatMoreSalmon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.


You're not reading my full posts. That is addressed.

No, I did. The question was about the subsidies that came about in 2020.

You just said they went back to the original subsidies, which were before 202. That is not what I said.


I addressed those with major medical conditions. You are being obstinate.

No I am not. I DON'T AGREE with you. You are saying inflation is more of a problem, I do not agree. Not doing the 2020 subsidies is causing greater harm in the short term than what we think will happen in the long term.

Don't agree then. But you will be proven wrong in the long run. Those same people harmed now will be in worse position as time goes on, not better. Take care of the major medical issues for those who need it right now using other programs. That takes care of most of your concerns and arguments.

17 Republicans vote to restore lapsed Obamacare subsidies

17 Republicans don't have any better answers than you do.

But you do? Ha!


You and the 17 republicans can celebrate the collapse of the system for not facing it head on. Poor kick the can vote. Which is all you've shown.


Yeah, but those people can get their dialysis, chemo, insulin, and surgeries. They can keep paying their bills and getting their kids inoculations.
All while you Patriots continue to argue and debate and do nothing. You have had 14 years and nothing.

But, you will be able to say how you held the line. While others physically pay the price.


Again, I covered what could be done to help those with major medical issues. But you don't want to read that, I suppose.

Now you and the 17 republicans will be able to congratulate each other when the next expiration of subsidies comes, all those you claim to care about are even worse off as healthcare cost continues skyrocket, and Congress did nothing but postpone collapse.
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.


You're not reading my full posts. That is addressed.

No, I did. The question was about the subsidies that came about in 2020.

You just said they went back to the original subsidies, which were before 202. That is not what I said.


I addressed those with major medical conditions. You are being obstinate.

No I am not. I DON'T AGREE with you. You are saying inflation is more of a problem, I do not agree. Not doing the 2020 subsidies is causing greater harm in the short term than what we think will happen in the long term.

Don't agree then. But you will be proven wrong in the long run. Those same people harmed now will be in worse position as time goes on, not better. Take care of the major medical issues for those who need it right now using other programs. That takes care of most of your concerns and arguments.

17 Republicans vote to restore lapsed Obamacare subsidies

17 Republicans don't have any better answers than you do.

But you do? Ha!


You and the 17 republicans can celebrate the collapse of the system for not facing it head on. Poor kick the can vote. Which is all you've shown.


Yeah, but those people can get their dialysis, chemo, insulin, and surgeries. They can keep paying their bills and getting their kids inoculations.
All while you Patriots continue to argue and debate and do nothing. You have had 14 years and nothing.

But, you will be able to say how you held the line. While others physically pay the price.


Again, I covered what could be done to help those with major medical issues. But you don't want to read that, I suppose.

Now you and the 17 republicans will be able to congratulate each other when the next expiration of subsidies comes, all those you claim to care about are even worse off as healthcare cost continues skyrocket, and Congress did nothing but postpone collapse.

I read it. It is another example of having no idea how an organization the size of the US Government operates to provide services to 360 million people. You guys think that people that work for the Government do nothing, but the scale and accountability parameters that they work with is beyond what anyone in the private sector sees.

Existing programs, you just going to roll them into Medicare? Medicaid has been gutted. You are not allowing ACA to be usable. What programs and how do you roll 23 million people into existing programs in 6 months, nevermind less that 1 month (when we started the conversation). You going to "give" everyone an HSA and let them negotiate their own in a month?

As much as you do not want to admit it, THERE WAS NO CHOICE. The GOP had 14 years to come up with an alternative that actually works and they did nothing. The GOP had a year since Trump came in to come up with a transition plan, nothing. Platitudes similar to your proposals with NO actual plans on how to do it. Or, worse those constantly screaming the failures of ACA, "but the insurance companies..." Nothing actually doable and there hasn't been for 15 years.

So, why you guys circle jerk about financial responsibility, while approving a trillion dollar defense budget, At least the poor schmuck that make 85k with a family of four can still go to the doctor without bankrupting his household.
EatMoreSalmon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.


You're not reading my full posts. That is addressed.

No, I did. The question was about the subsidies that came about in 2020.

You just said they went back to the original subsidies, which were before 202. That is not what I said.


I addressed those with major medical conditions. You are being obstinate.

No I am not. I DON'T AGREE with you. You are saying inflation is more of a problem, I do not agree. Not doing the 2020 subsidies is causing greater harm in the short term than what we think will happen in the long term.

Don't agree then. But you will be proven wrong in the long run. Those same people harmed now will be in worse position as time goes on, not better. Take care of the major medical issues for those who need it right now using other programs. That takes care of most of your concerns and arguments.

17 Republicans vote to restore lapsed Obamacare subsidies

17 Republicans don't have any better answers than you do.

But you do? Ha!


You and the 17 republicans can celebrate the collapse of the system for not facing it head on. Poor kick the can vote. Which is all you've shown.


Yeah, but those people can get their dialysis, chemo, insulin, and surgeries. They can keep paying their bills and getting their kids inoculations.
All while you Patriots continue to argue and debate and do nothing. You have had 14 years and nothing.

But, you will be able to say how you held the line. While others physically pay the price.


Again, I covered what could be done to help those with major medical issues. But you don't want to read that, I suppose.

Now you and the 17 republicans will be able to congratulate each other when the next expiration of subsidies comes, all those you claim to care about are even worse off as healthcare cost continues skyrocket, and Congress did nothing but postpone collapse.

I read it. It is another example of having no idea how an organization the size of the US Government operates to provide services to 360 million people. You guys think that people that work for the Government do nothing, but the scale and accountability parameters that they work with is beyond what anyone in the private sector sees.

Existing programs, you just going to roll them into Medicare? Medicaid has been gutted. You are not allowing ACA to be usable. What programs and how do you roll 23 million people into existing programs in 6 months, nevermind less that 1 month (when we started the conversation). You going to "give" everyone an HSA and let them negotiate their own in a month?

As much as you do not want to admit it, THERE WAS NO CHOICE. The GOP had 14 years to come up with an alternative that actually works and they did nothing. The GOP had a year since Trump came in to come up with a transition plan, nothing. Platitudes similar to your proposals with NO actual plans on how to do it. Or, worse those constantly screaming the failures of ACA, "but the insurance companies..." Nothing actually doable and there hasn't been for 15 years.

So, why you guys circle jerk about financial responsibility, while approving a trillion dollar defense budget, At least the poor schmuck that make 85k with a family of four can still go to the doctor without bankrupting his household.


You've lost all composure, now. You did not comprehend what was written. You are working from spurious assumptions about those you engage with here. It's a shame. Could have been a nice conversation.
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
nm
EatMoreSalmon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

J.R. said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

FLBear5630 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Realitybites said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

So you guys have been jerking each other off for an entire page and yet you idiots still:

- Blame Republicans for OBAMAcare

- Cannot explain why Democrats are demanding a $62K / year subsidy to Big Insurance while the average healthcare costs / year is $14K / patient

- Claim to want to reduce costs but refuse to cap earnings of doctors and nurses


Republicans have had three years when they controlled the executive and legislative branches. They were not willing to repeal Obamacare and fix the system. This makes them complicit.

I'm opposed to Obamacare and the subsidies, but you can't simply blow up the machine without the replacement ready to install. First you pass a comprehensive Obamacare repeal with a pre-existing conditions clause which ends subsidies after the necessary transition period. You cannot simply let the subsidies expire while leaving the legislative framework of Obamacare in place.

If you look at physician salaries, they have (with some exceptions) steadily decreased or stagnated for decades. I'm guessing nurses (with the proliferation of NPs) have been able to increase their salaries.

Fair point. There was no appetite to repeal Obamacare back then; suddenly Biden used covid as a predicate to give trillions of dollars in kickbacks to Big Insurance. The so-called subsidies are simply that and led to the drastic increase in cost to people and profits to Big Insurance. The best proxy is the federal government subsidizing higher education - it does little to make college more affordable and accessible just puts more people in debt and enriches already-uber-rich universities.

Regarding salaries, compare the U.S. to the world and you can start to see the problem. However, this is a solution that AI can solve for - soon we really will not need most nurses and doctors; even today most are just a superfluous expense to mitigate liability.


AI is going to nurse? Do you have any idea what nurses do? AI is going to be your doctor?

You really do keep talking about things you have no knowledge. We have a nursing shortage, but they are superfluous? Have you ever stayed in a hospital? You are a kid aren't you?


Sweetie, I approach problems intellectually. I do not rely on wild-arse hysterical comments to make emotional arguments.

I get you're not in Mensa. So if you can formulate a response I will happily rebut.


Rebut? Why? You are a kid with no real life experience spouting theories not based on reality. So far you are against insurance companies in a system that relies on health insurance, doctors are over paid so we have to wage control them when there is a shortage and we have a surplus of nurses that AI is going to solve. Keep talking, it is good comic relieve. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go and talk to some nurses and tell them your thoughts.

he is the Poster Child for MAGA. ***** and moan, but collect govt HC, but offer no plan. Sounds like Hank's hero fat boy. NO EFFING PLAN. He has said he has a plan that will be ready in 2 weeks. you seen that yet Hank? Congress had forever to fix. No will. eff'em all

So far, his only solution is charge the hell out of the 23 million that rely on it.

I know what they will say... "But, but, but - Insurance Companies gouged..." No ****, that is why it needs to be reformed. If we have to err between killing people's health coverage and saving some money. I am on the side of making sure we keep people's health care. Hell, we waste more money on less productive items.


The US government itself put these people on subsidies in their lousy predicament. The problem right now is a "temporary" band aid that "must" be extended.
Let's say Congress went along with HSA payments to those on subsidies for a prescribed time for transition. When those payments are scheduled to sunset, the same "government can fix it" people will be clamoring for those payments to be extended. They can't ever seem to work toward something sustainable over payments to constituents. It's self destructive and ridiculous.
If a solution could come out of the quackery of Congress, you would think it would have been done by now. But Congress and the Executive bureaucracy are not capable. They are both prioritizing their job security over solutions. This is why largess to citizens needs to be taken away from the government. It would take a constitutional amendment of some kind to keep Congress from going from a reasonable safety net for truly destitute to giving monetary gifts to half of Americans.
Even Medicare could be saved for future generations if it was turned into major medical for our older retirees, and not a pay for it all type of coverage. Like anything else, the more money you pump into a business, the more inflation you will get.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL

Notice what year healthcare CPI really started to rise, and has had a sharp trajectory since. It is when Congress started mandating that day to day preventive care start being covered by employers' insurance. That might have been well meaning, but it skyrocketed the cost of day to day preventive care like annual checkups and doctor visits.

Your solution - as you see it - of Congress cutting down benefits over time has historically been used by those who espouse single payer as a temporary speed bump. They will clamor for extensions and more later. You add in the representatives who are afraid of losing votes, and you end up keeping that inflationary interventionist government road to system collapse.

It really stinks for the millions of people with marketplace policies in the short term, but the band aid needs to be ripped off.
My immediate solution would be to help get these folks onto major medical plans and give them time to do so.
Those with major medical preexisting conditions will need to be allowed some continuation of coverage, perhaps through Medicaid.
Doctor offices with one or two docs should not have to hire 2-3 office workers to keep up with claims and the office's own insurance coverages. Doctors and hospitals should not have to be forced into large corporate groups in order to survive the present pay systems and reporting systems. Government mandates need to be heavily pruned to put more downward pressure on day to day healthcare costs.
What government can do is require pricing of medical procedures, doctor visits, and medical equipment be very straightforward for the average consumer. No more separate bills from every doc, PA, facility, anesthesiologist, and custodial service involved. And any bills showing up more than 60 days after any procedure. Insurance companies would be required to process payments in a timely manner. If fraud is suspected in a claim, the insurance company must report its suspicions to authorities immediately to get it taken care of in a timely manner should suspicions turn out as wrong.

Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all.

"Any solution MUST put downward pressure on healthcare costs. Otherwise it will become unaffordable for all."


Yes, but you will not get there in time to prevent people from being harmed. No one is saying pass it and leave it. We all agree. What we did was just made people make a decision between health coverage for their families and eating. That helps no one and doesn't save crap when we have a 30T deficit.

The amount of the subsidy for 1 year will not break the Nation, but not having it will break people.

Keeping it as is as you say will harm millions more later. If you delay its sunset, you just postpone the harm, or have a dem controlled house block any fix you come up with.

This deadline has been talked about since Trump was elected. That's a full year. Subsidies are not disappearing. They are back to original levels. It really sucks what the two Democrat administrations have done to these people. They stoked the inflation fire with more fuel (more money) instead of working to reverse the healthcare inflation trend to make healthcare more affordable. They took the easy "quick fix" that isn't remotely sustainable.




Yeah, all well and good in theory, unless you are scheduled for surgery, dialysis or chemo in February.

This is not an area where it is no harm, no foul until we figure ot out. Or it can wait like a research grant. There are 23 million on this program relying on health care that doe not wait or care if we reach a suitable compromise. Cancer, diabetes, and other diseases dont' wait for your theoretical sunset analogy.

That is why extending it and then fixing it is the only humane path forward. Its called empathy in policy. Think about those that use it before ideology.


You're not reading my full posts. That is addressed.

No, I did. The question was about the subsidies that came about in 2020.

You just said they went back to the original subsidies, which were before 202. That is not what I said.


I addressed those with major medical conditions. You are being obstinate.

No I am not. I DON'T AGREE with you. You are saying inflation is more of a problem, I do not agree. Not doing the 2020 subsidies is causing greater harm in the short term than what we think will happen in the long term.

Don't agree then. But you will be proven wrong in the long run. Those same people harmed now will be in worse position as time goes on, not better. Take care of the major medical issues for those who need it right now using other programs. That takes care of most of your concerns and arguments.

17 Republicans vote to restore lapsed Obamacare subsidies

17 Republicans don't have any better answers than you do.

But you do? Ha!


You and the 17 republicans can celebrate the collapse of the system for not facing it head on. Poor kick the can vote. Which is all you've shown.


Yeah, but those people can get their dialysis, chemo, insulin, and surgeries. They can keep paying their bills and getting their kids inoculations.
All while you Patriots continue to argue and debate and do nothing. You have had 14 years and nothing.

But, you will be able to say how you held the line. While others physically pay the price.


Again, I covered what could be done to help those with major medical issues. But you don't want to read that, I suppose.

Now you and the 17 republicans will be able to congratulate each other when the next expiration of subsidies comes, all those you claim to care about are even worse off as healthcare cost continues skyrocket, and Congress did nothing but postpone collapse.

I read it. It is another example of having no idea how an organization the size of the US Government operates to provide services to 360 million people. You guys think that people that work for the Government do nothing, but the scale and accountability parameters that they work with is beyond what anyone in the private sector sees.

Existing programs, you just going to roll them into Medicare? Medicaid has been gutted. You are not allowing ACA to be usable. What programs and how do you roll 23 million people into existing programs in 6 months, nevermind less that 1 month (when we started the conversation). You going to "give" everyone an HSA and let them negotiate their own in a month?

As much as you do not want to admit it, THERE WAS NO CHOICE. The GOP had 14 years to come up with an alternative that actually works and they did nothing. The GOP had a year since Trump came in to come up with a transition plan, nothing. Platitudes similar to your proposals with NO actual plans on how to do it. Or, worse those constantly screaming the failures of ACA, "but the insurance companies..." Nothing actually doable and there hasn't been for 15 years.

So, why you guys circle jerk about financial responsibility, while approving a trillion dollar defense budget, At least the poor schmuck that make 85k with a family of four can still go to the doctor without bankrupting his household.


You've lost all composure, now. You did not comprehend what was written. You are working from spurious assumptions about those you engage with here. It's a shame. Could have been a nice conversation.

Funny, you can say what you want and its fine. Someone says that YOU are part of the problem and it losing composure. GOP, your crowd that doesn't want the ACA subsidies in place, has had 14 years and several times with the House, Senate, and President yet nothing was done.

I have not lost my composure, I find your comments about financial responsibility on this issue ring hollow and there will only be 14 more years of your scolding and arguing against Obamacare with nothing being done (circle jerk). So, I disagree with you and err on the side of letting you guys argue (rather than circle jerk) while these people actually have coverage. Maybe the cost will make the GOP get off their ass.

It is a shame you don't see that. But, I am sure you feel smug in you fiscal conservativism. Go approve another Trillion dollar War Budget. (can't call it defense anymore, right?)


You need to read your own posts before deciding you haven't lost composure. Just now you have spouted off several non-relevant, spurious assumptions on your own part. I hope you will see and change. And I'm not talking about changing your opinions on Obamacare.
 
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