BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Tempus Edax Rerum said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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The level of discourse is amazing here.

You might have noticed that I asked for qualifications or analysis. In doing so I was pointing out that the poster likely had neither. I will rely on the qualifications of the study's authors and their analysis. If someone wants to dispute them, they should make an argument, not and accusation.

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Unless you read the actual study, you're not relying on the study authors' analysis, you're only relying on the reporting of their analysis.

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I had my brakes fixed yesterday. I am relying on the mechanic's analysis without having seen it.

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The journalist is not the mechanic, the study authors are. The original study is their report, not the journalists' report. We really need better critical thinking here, not the usual confirmation bias.

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I get the summary from the front desk, not the mechanic.

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Yeah, the teenage girl at the front desk.

I rest my case, counselor. You're relying on hearsay analysis. And a flawed one at that, as I explained in my earlier comment if you even bothered to read it.

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I don't know where you get your car serviced. But all dealerships and high-quality mechanic shops spend considerable resources hiring and training their service reps.

Second, my car stops.

Third,, I do understand this bit of logic. The proponent of the claim that the vaccine was or is unsafe has to overcome the billions of doses that have been given without harm. Flyspecking every study that doesn't support your claim proves zero.

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You do realize we're talking about YOUR analogy, don't you?

We're not talking about real auto shops. In YOUR "auto shop" here, you're NOT talking to a trained rep, you're talking to a secretary at the front desk, (i.e. the journalist). This secretary has relayed to you her interpretation of the mechanics' analysis and conclusions, which were not supported by what the mechanics actually found.

You're demonstrating exactly what I'm talking about in your comment - you can't say from this particular study that "the Covid vaccine was given without harm", because in this study 21 percent of the sudden deaths were unexplained. Do you understand this? It doesn't seem like you do. The burden of proof is on YOU to show these unexplained deaths were not caused by the vaccine, if you're going to claim it caused no harm. But since this study could not and did not, then it can't make the conclusion that the vaccine caused no harm. Do you see the big flaw in the study here? This is basic logic. You must have not understood anything I said in my critique of the article and study above.

Your car stops, that much is apparent. Evidently, it doesn't "go".

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Apparently you don't understand the 21% claim, which is bs.

There is no evidence that 21% of sudden deaths were caused by or are "unexplained" due to the COVID-19 vaccine. This specific number likely stems from a common misinterpretation of data from the original vaccine clinical trials or heart health studies during the pandemic.


Here is a breakdown of where the "21%" figure actually comes from and the context surrounding sudden deaths.
1. The 21% "Adverse Events" Statistic
The most likely source for this figure is the original Pfizer (BNT162b2) clinical trial.

• The Fact: In the initial trial data, approximately 21% of vaccine recipients reported experiencing some type of "related adverse event."
  
  
• The Context: These "adverse events" were overwhelmingly mild and temporary, such as injection site pain, fatigue, or headache. They were not "sudden deaths."
  
  
• The Misinformation: On social media, this "21% adverse event" rate was frequently taken out of context and mischaracterized as a death rate or a rate of serious, unexplained medical emergencies.

2. The 21% Increase in Heart Attack Deaths
Another source for the "21%" figure is a study by Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, which looked at heart health during the pandemic.

• The Fact: The study found that heart attack deaths among adults aged 4564 increased by roughly 21% during the first two years of the pandemic.
  
  
• The Cause: Researchers linked this increase to the COVID-19 virus itself, which is known to cause significant cardiovascular inflammation, as well as pandemic-related stress and delayed medical care. The trend began in 2020, before vaccines were widely available.

3. "Unexplained" Sudden Deaths as a Baseline
In forensic medicine, Sudden Unexplained Death (SUD) is a recognized category that existed long before COVID-19.

• A 20-year study of NCAA athletes found that about 19.5% (roughly 1 in 5) of sudden cardiac deaths were "unexplained" even after an autopsy.
  
  
• This is a baseline statistic for young people and athletes; follow-up research on these cohorts found no increase in these rates following the introduction of COVID-19 vaccines.
  
  

Summary of Confirmed Risks
While sudden death from the vaccine is not occurring at a rate of 21%, health agencies do monitor for rare, serious side effects:

• Myocarditis: There is a confirmed, very rare risk of heart muscle inflammation (myocarditis), primarily in young males after the second dose. The vast majority of these cases are mild and recover with rest.
  
  
• Overall Mortality: Large-scale studies involving millions of people have consistently shown that vaccinated individuals have a lower overall risk of death (from all causes) compared to unvaccinated individuals, largely because the vaccine prevents severe COVID-19.
  
  

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For GOD'S SAKE, man....

.... the 21% unexplained deaths was referring to the results in the actual study that the article you posted was about. In THIS particular study, that was the percentage of sudden deaths that could not explained from the methodology they used. The authors conceded that molecular genetic testing would be useful in determining the cause of that 21 percent of unexplained deaths, but they did not do that test in their study. It's just basic logic and reasoning that if you don't know what caused those deaths, you simply can NOT conclude that the vaccine had nothing to do with it. Therefore, you simply can NOT claim that this study "affirmed the safety of the vaccine" as the article you posted does.

It's obvious you guys didn't even read and/or comprehend the actual study, nor did you read and/or comprehend anythng I've been saying to you. Something is really deficient here in terms of reading, comprehension, and basic logic and reasoning. And you guys think you are capable of lecturing us on this topic?

My suggestion to you guys is that you read the actual study and understand it, and not just read some news article from India about it before you try and lecture us. Otherwise you might set yourself up to look like ignoramuses like you did here.

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I did, and you clearly are still clueless

1. Large-Scale Population Studies
Multiple studies involving millions of people have consistently shown that COVID-19 vaccination is not linked to an increase in unexplained or sudden deaths.

• The "Oregon Study" (CDC, 2024): Researchers examined nearly 1,300 deaths among young people (ages 1630). They found no evidence that mRNA vaccines were linked to sudden cardiac death. In fact, only one person in the study had an "undetermined" cause of death within 100 days of vaccination, while the others were linked to underlying illnesses or other causes.
  +1
  
• AIIMS New Delhi Study (2025): A year-long analysis of over 2,200 autopsies in India found no causal association between COVID-19 vaccination and sudden deaths in young adults. The study concluded that underlying heart conditions were the primary cause of these events.
• All-Cause Mortality Data: Large data sets from the U.S., the Netherlands, and South Korea have shown that vaccinated individuals actually have lower all-cause mortality rates than unvaccinated individuals, primarily because the vaccines prevent severe COVID-19.
  

2. Monitoring Systems vs. Causality
You may see reports from systems like VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) in the U.S. or the Yellow Card system in the UK citing thousands of deaths. It is critical to understand how these work:

• Reporting Requirements: Healthcare providers are legally required to report any death that occurs after vaccination, regardless of whether they think the vaccine was the cause. This includes deaths from car accidents, cancer, and old age.
  
• Verification: Scientists at the CDC and FDA review these reports by looking at death certificates and autopsy records. After reviewing thousands of such reports, they have found that the vast majority are coincidental and not caused by the vaccine.
  

3. Rare but Documented Risks
While vaccines are not linked to "unexplained" mass deaths, there are very rare, documented side effects that can, in extreme cases, be fatal:

• Thrombosis with Thrombocytopenia (VITT): Linked primarily to the Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca (viral vector) vaccines. This involves serious blood clots and low platelets. Because of this rare risk, these vaccines are no longer the preferred choice in many countries.
• Myocarditis (Heart Inflammation): A rare side effect, mostly in young males after mRNA vaccines. While most cases are mild and recover quickly, a very small number of fatal cases have been confirmed through autopsies worldwide.

Watch and learn

1. Large-Scale Population Studies
Multiple studies involving millions of people have consistently shown that COVID-19 vaccination is not linked to an increase in unexplained or sudden deaths.

• The "Oregon Study" (CDC, 2024): Researchers examined nearly 1,300 deaths among young people (ages 1630). They found no evidence that mRNA vaccines were linked to sudden cardiac death. In fact, only one person in the study had an "undetermined" cause of death within 100 days of vaccination, while the others were linked to underlying illnesses or other causes.
  +1
  
• AIIMS New Delhi Study (2025): A year-long analysis of over 2,200 autopsies in India found no causal association between COVID-19 vaccination and sudden deaths in young adults. The study concluded that underlying heart conditions were the primary cause of these events.
• All-Cause Mortality Data: Large data sets from the U.S., the Netherlands, and South Korea have shown that vaccinated individuals actually have lower all-cause mortality rates than unvaccinated individuals, primarily because the vaccines prevent severe COVID-19.
  

2. Monitoring Systems vs. Causality
You may see reports from systems like VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) in the U.S. or the Yellow Card system in the UK citing thousands of deaths. It is critical to understand how these work:

• Reporting Requirements: Healthcare providers are legally required to report any death that occurs after vaccination, regardless of whether they think the vaccine was the cause. This includes deaths from car accidents, cancer, and old age.
  
  Verification: Scientists at the CDC and FDA review these reports by looking at death certificates and autopsy records. After reviewing thousands of such reports, they have found that the vast majority are coincidental and not caused by the vaccine.

3. Rare but Documented Risks
While vaccines are not linked to "unexplained" mass deaths, there are very rare, documented side effects that can, in extreme cases, be fatal:

• Thrombosis with Thrombocytopenia (VITT): Linked primarily to the Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca (viral vector) vaccines. This involves serious blood clots and low platelets. Because of this rare risk, these vaccines are no longer the preferred choice in many countries.
• Myocarditis (Heart Inflammation): A rare side effect, mostly in young males after mRNA vaccines. While most cases are mild and recover quickly, a very small number of fatal cases have been confirmed through autopsies worldwide.
  

Summary Table: Evidence at a Glance
Concern
Findings from Peer-Reviewed ResearchSudden Adult Death (SADS)
No evidence linking vaccines to SADS; rates have not increased beyond pre-pandemic trends.
Excess Mortality
Studies show higher excess mortality is tied to COVID-19 infection and healthcare strain, not vaccination.
Causal Links
Proven links exist only for extremely rare conditions like VITT or myocarditis.
Export to Sheets
The Consensus: The overwhelming majority of scientific evidence indicates that the risk of death or serious illness from a COVID-19 infection is significantly higher than any risk posed by the vaccine.

Tempus Edax Rerum said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Tempus Edax Rerum said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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The level of discourse is amazing here.

You might have noticed that I asked for qualifications or analysis. In doing so I was pointing out that the poster likely had neither. I will rely on the qualifications of the study's authors and their analysis. If someone wants to dispute them, they should make an argument, not and accusation.

---

Unless you read the actual study, you're not relying on the study authors' analysis, you're only relying on the reporting of their analysis.

---

I had my brakes fixed yesterday. I am relying on the mechanic's analysis without having seen it.

---

The journalist is not the mechanic, the study authors are. The original study is their report, not the journalists' report. We really need better critical thinking here, not the usual confirmation bias.

---

I get the summary from the front desk, not the mechanic.

---

Yeah, the teenage girl at the front desk.

I rest my case, counselor. You're relying on hearsay analysis. And a flawed one at that, as I explained in my earlier comment if you even bothered to read it.

---

I don't know where you get your car serviced. But all dealerships and high-quality mechanic shops spend considerable resources hiring and training their service reps.

Second, my car stops.

Third,, I do understand this bit of logic. The proponent of the claim that the vaccine was or is unsafe has to overcome the billions of doses that have been given without harm. Flyspecking every study that doesn't support your claim proves zero.

---

You do realize we're talking about YOUR analogy, don't you?

We're not talking about real auto shops. In YOUR "auto shop" here, you're NOT talking to a trained rep, you're talking to a secretary at the front desk, (i.e. the journalist). This secretary has relayed to you her interpretation of the mechanics' analysis and conclusions, which were not supported by what the mechanics actually found.

You're demonstrating exactly what I'm talking about in your comment - you can't say from this particular study that "the Covid vaccine was given without harm", because in this study 21 percent of the sudden deaths were unexplained. Do you understand this? It doesn't seem like you do. The burden of proof is on YOU to show these unexplained deaths were not caused by the vaccine, if you're going to claim it caused no harm. But since this study could not and did not, then it can't make the conclusion that the vaccine caused no harm. Do you see the big flaw in the study here? This is basic logic. You must have not understood anything I said in my critique of the article and study above.

Your car stops, that much is apparent. Evidently, it doesn't "go".

---

Apparently you don't understand the 21% claim, which is bs.

There is no evidence that 21% of sudden deaths were caused by or are "unexplained" due to the COVID-19 vaccine. This specific number likely stems from a common misinterpretation of data from the original vaccine clinical trials or heart health studies during the pandemic.


Here is a breakdown of where the "21%" figure actually comes from and the context surrounding sudden deaths.
1. The 21% "Adverse Events" Statistic
The most likely source for this figure is the original Pfizer (BNT162b2) clinical trial.

• The Fact: In the initial trial data, approximately 21% of vaccine recipients reported experiencing some type of "related adverse event."
  
  
• The Context: These "adverse events" were overwhelmingly mild and temporary, such as injection site pain, fatigue, or headache. They were not "sudden deaths."
  
  
• The Misinformation: On social media, this "21% adverse event" rate was frequently taken out of context and mischaracterized as a death rate or a rate of serious, unexplained medical emergencies.

2. The 21% Increase in Heart Attack Deaths
Another source for the "21%" figure is a study by Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, which looked at heart health during the pandemic.

• The Fact: The study found that heart attack deaths among adults aged 4564 increased by roughly 21% during the first two years of the pandemic.
  
  
• The Cause: Researchers linked this increase to the COVID-19 virus itself, which is known to cause significant cardiovascular inflammation, as well as pandemic-related stress and delayed medical care. The trend began in 2020, before vaccines were widely available.

3. "Unexplained" Sudden Deaths as a Baseline
In forensic medicine, Sudden Unexplained Death (SUD) is a recognized category that existed long before COVID-19.

• A 20-year study of NCAA athletes found that about 19.5% (roughly 1 in 5) of sudden cardiac deaths were "unexplained" even after an autopsy.
  
  
• This is a baseline statistic for young people and athletes; follow-up research on these cohorts found no increase in these rates following the introduction of COVID-19 vaccines.
  
  

Summary of Confirmed Risks
While sudden death from the vaccine is not occurring at a rate of 21%, health agencies do monitor for rare, serious side effects:

• Myocarditis: There is a confirmed, very rare risk of heart muscle inflammation (myocarditis), primarily in young males after the second dose. The vast majority of these cases are mild and recover with rest.
  
  
• Overall Mortality: Large-scale studies involving millions of people have consistently shown that vaccinated individuals have a lower overall risk of death (from all causes) compared to unvaccinated individuals, largely because the vaccine prevents severe COVID-19.
  
  

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For GOD'S SAKE, man....

.... the 21% unexplained deaths was referring to the results in the actual study that the article you posted was about. In THIS particular study, that was the percentage of sudden deaths that could not explained from the methodology they used. The authors conceded that molecular genetic testing would be useful in determining the cause of that 21 percent of unexplained deaths, but they did not do that test in their study. It's just basic logic and reasoning that if you don't know what caused those deaths, you simply can NOT conclude that the vaccine had nothing to do with it. Therefore, you simply can NOT claim that this study "affirmed the safety of the vaccine" as the article you posted does.

It's obvious you guys didn't even read and/or comprehend the actual study, nor did you read and/or comprehend anythng I've been saying to you. Something is really deficient here in terms of reading, comprehension, and basic logic and reasoning. And you guys think you are capable of lecturing us on this topic?

My suggestion to you guys is that you read the actual study and understand it, and not just read some news article from India about it before you try and lecture us. Otherwise you might set yourself up to look like ignoramuses like you did here.

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I did, and you clearly are still clueless

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Umm, no you didn't. That's why you had no idea what I was referring to when I mentioned the 21% of the sudden deaths being unexplained. You revealed yourself to be the clueless one.