BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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WHY is this question so difficult for you guys to answer?

Q: Is the message from the marian apparitions which command a church be built in her honor and to establish world-wide devotion to HER "Immaculate Heart" for the forgiveness of sins a message from God, or not?

Seems pretty easy for someone who claims to be a Christian who "loves Jesus" to answer this.

Folks, again.... what does it tell you when they can't/won't answer this? Shouldn't their views on Christianity not be trusted? Shouldn't then their church from which they are getting their views be doubted as being from God? I believe if you are true Christian, you know the answer.

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Was this the Virgin of Guadalupe or some other one?

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It's a combination of Guadalupe and Fatima. And actually, it doesn't even matter. Even if I completely made it up, the very fact that they can't answer the question is what's revealing.

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I was thinking it could have been either of those two stories.

It's sad for anyone to think that Almighty God would want His followers to build churches in honor of a human woman, and then to also pray prayers of thanks & praise to her. It's completely impossible to believe that such idolatry is OK with the God of the Bible.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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WHY is this question so difficult for you guys to answer?

Q: Is the message from the marian apparitions which command a church be built in her honor and to establish world-wide devotion to HER "Immaculate Heart" for the forgiveness of sins a message from God, or not?

Seems pretty easy for someone who claims to be a Christian who "loves Jesus" to answer this.

Folks, again.... what does it tell you when they can't/won't answer this? Shouldn't their views on Christianity not be trusted? Shouldn't then their church from which they are getting their views be doubted as being from God? I believe if you are true Christian, you know the answer.

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Such beliefs are obvious heresy and anti-Christian. Mary has nothing to do with salvation, is not divine, and was a sinner just like every other human who has ever lived except Jesus Christ. It directly contradicts fundamental Christian teachings from Christ Himself and all the other New Testament writers.

The only important question is if anyone, Catholic or otherwise, actually believes such nonsense. If they do, they are lost because they consider Jesus a liar and a fraud.

Oldbear83 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Sam Lowry: " I don't find these debates productive and don't want to get drawn in. That's not to say I don't learn from many of the posts here. But there's a kind of semantic barrier between the two sides that makes any mutual understanding extremely difficult."

I agree with Sam.

I like reading these debates, sometimes for insights into the topic and sometimes for insight into the posters. People often have an emotional investment in their own opinion, and do not like having to reconsider it in light of exposition and debate. And some simply carpet-bomb threads with repeated assertions lacking substance.

I fear almost all of us are guilty at one time or another of automatic emotional reactions, especially in matters of faith.

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What is your answer to my question?

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I answered you long ago on these points.

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I don't think you did. What I do remember is you always dodging questions like these. Sorry, if I'm going to call out the Roman Catholics for dodging the question, I'm gonna have to call you out too.

If you did answer such a question, then remind us: what was your answer?

It's a simple two or three letter answer.

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That snide and rude post from you is why I am not wasting my time with you after this post, BTD.

I answered you. Your response was abusive and unchristian. I have no doubt that if I repeated my answer, even explained it to you, your response would again be abusive and unchristian.

I am answerable to God, not a Pharisee like you.

I will continue to pray for you, but I shall not feed your sin.

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The funny part is that there are interesting theological arguments to be had about the apparitions, but he can't even get the facts right because he is blinded by his hatred of his fellow man and his faith seems to require him to define himself in opposition to something (in this case Catholicism).

Ignore is the best path.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Happy Solemnity of Saint Mary, Mother of God to all who celebrate.

What a beautiful homily

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Plane. Don't trust predictive text.

For clarity, are putting Mary on the same plain as Jesus Christ or, or you referring to the honor Christ placed in His Mother?

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historian said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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WHY is this question so difficult for you guys to answer?

Q: Is the message from the marian apparitions which command a church be built in her honor and to establish world-wide devotion to HER "Immaculate Heart" for the forgiveness of sins a message from God, or not?

Seems pretty easy for someone who claims to be a Christian who "loves Jesus" to answer this.

Folks, again.... what does it tell you when they can't/won't answer this? Shouldn't their views on Christianity not be trusted? Shouldn't then their church from which they are getting their views be doubted as being from God? I believe if you are true Christian, you know the answer.

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Such beliefs are obvious heresy and anti-Christian. Mary has nothing to do with salvation, is not divine, and was a dinner just like every other human who has ever lived except Jesus Christ. It directly contradicts fundamental Christian teachings from Christ Himself and all the other New Testament writers.

The only important question is if anyone, Catholic or otherwise, actually believes such nonsense. If they do, they are lost because they consider Jesus a liar and a fraud.

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She was a "dinner"? I'll bet you're right, they'll want to start eating her literal flesh too.

Thanks for the clear and unambiguous answer. Obviously I fully agree.

DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Sam Lowry: " I don't find these debates productive and don't want to get drawn in. That's not to say I don't learn from many of the posts here. But there's a kind of semantic barrier between the two sides that makes any mutual understanding extremely difficult."

I agree with Sam.

I like reading these debates, sometimes for insights into the topic and sometimes for insight into the posters. People often have an emotional investment in their own opinion, and do not like having to reconsider it in light of exposition and debate. And some simply carpet-bomb threads with repeated assertions lacking substance.

I fear almost all of us are guilty at one time or another of automatic emotional reactions, especially in matters of faith.

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What is your answer to my question?

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I answered you long ago on these points.

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I don't think you did. What I do remember is you always dodging questions like these. Sorry, if I'm going to call out the Roman Catholics for dodging the question, I'm gonna have to call you out too.

If you did answer such a question, then remind us: what was your answer?

It's a simple two or three letter answer.

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That snide and rude post from you is why I am not wasting my time with you after this post, BTD.

I answered you. Your response was abusive and unchristian. I have no doubt that if I repeated my answer, even explained it to you, your response would again be abusive and unchristian.

I am answerable to God, not a Pharisee like you.

I will continue to pray for you, but I shall not feed your sin.

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The funny part is that there are interesting theological arguments to be had about the apparitions, but he can't even get the facts right because he is blinded by his hatred of his fellow man and his faith seems to require him to define himself in opposition to something (in this case Catholicism).

Ignore is the best path.

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^^^ Folks, notice how the Roman Catholics and Orthodox won't answer the simple question, but instead they turn around and attack me personally, accusing me of being "abusive", "unchristian", a "Pharisee", and having "hate for my fellow man". Because I ask the question, and call out those who are lying or dodging?

This guy above (a Roman Catholic) says there are "interesting theological arguments" about the apparitions... but the question of whether or not the apparition's message is even from God to begin with is NOT interesting enough to address?


What does all this tell you?

Obviously a typo. Sinner

Original corrected

If Roman Catholics/Orthodox don't want to answer the question, it clearly means that they know there is something wrong with that message, that it can't be from God.

So then, the question is, WHY do you guys trust in the infallible authority of a church that promoted that message? Who are you fooling, but yourselves?