BearBall said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

I said and posted on here for months prior to the election that for the first time in my life I wasn't going to vote for the GOP candidate. I changed my mind last minute based on all the pro-Hamas BS by the Dems and crazy Green Deal BS from Kamala.

I regret my vote. The reason I was not going to vote for Trump was long term v. short term. No doubt, Trump was going to be better short term than Kamala - from a traditional conservate perspective. My concern was long term. And my concerns have proven justified.

I believe long term Trump has severely damaged: the GOP, conservatism, free markets, separation of powers, our Country's reputation, ally and international relations, global security, international freedom movements, among others. I also am angry that he single-handedly has forever precluded any argument that character or the most basic level of decency matters. Laughing about "mean tweets" has turned into rationalizing or even relishing bizarre and abhorrent behavior.

I say without reservation that conservatism and decency would have been better off long term with a disastrous Kamala presidency. It would have galvanized the best of our country against liberalism and cultural debauchery.

I was wrong.

---

You're one of the most thoughtful posters on this board, and I don't disagree much with your assessment of Trump.

Where I think you err is you greatly underestimate the amount of irreversible damage that would have been done to our country by another 4 years of the Biden admin. There's a strong likelihood that Harris would have attempted to pack the Supreme Court, ala FDR, to get her agenda passed. And of course a perpetuation of open borders, gender issues, identity politics, cracking down on free speech, political prosecutions, and foreign affair blunders would have undoubtedly been a total disaster, doing lasting damage to our country.

Republicans had crappy options, including Trump. But when it's crappy vs. evil, you better choose crappy.

---

Kamala would have had a GOP House and Senate, so short damage would have been mitigated.

She would not have touched the Court.

1A - Trump has been worse than Kamala would have been. (Threatening or even suing law firms, companies, media, judges; saying it should be treasonous to teach anything anti-American in schools; suing banks for de-banking him; firing or endorsing firing of gov employees over their views.)

Trump has been WORSE on foreign policy than I think Kamala would have been. Kamala would have supported Israel and would have been much stronger for Ukraine. She likely would not have bombed Iran (so I give that issue to Trump). She would not have invaded Venezuela or bombed boats (so I give her the edge there).

She definitely would not have mistreated and in some cases threatened our closest allies, issued tariffs, etc.

She would not have been so cozy with Russia or China.

Trump's political prosecutions (or threats) are just as bad, and he is more directly involved.

Credit Trump bigly on the border, but he's also gone too far.

I also credit Trump for speaking out against wokeness, etc., but there was already a major backlash in the making there.

---

Ridiculous case of a short memory

A. Harris would have continued Biden's horribly destructive immigration flood
B. Would have continued Biden's bizarre / destructive woke policies
C. Would have continued Biden's indifference to the fentanyl crises
D. Would have INCREASED Taxes. Where Trump has provided tax relief
E. The Middle East would still be in turmoil from Iran's nuclear bomb program
F. NATO would not have increased their defense spending
G Lawfare against Christians would have not only continued….but made worse.
H. Ridiculous green regulations would have continued to hamper economic growth.
I. Implicit discrimination against white people would have increased.
J. Military recruitment and morale would have continued to plummet.



Gone too far ?
How ?

You prefer to have these criminals remain on our streets ?

How many more have to be raped or murdered before you finally wake up ?

Or will it take the killing of a family member by a drunk driving illegal to finally insert a sense of reality into your insulated world ?

---

Good summary. In short, we (and for that matter of the world) would be presently suffering through the fourth term of Obama with the main over-arching goal being doing anything and everything to insure permanent leftist democrat dominance both now and (especially) in the future - the country, the American people, and the world be damned.

---

not correct. You obviously don't travel. The rest of the world doesn't need us and it is apparent. We ain
t what we used to be. Most people of note in the world want nothing to do with Merca, by god! We lost are way.

---

I have never voted for Trump. But you are wrong. I travel the world often and do business all over the middle east, europe, baltics, south america and asia. They love Trump. It is sickening how much they worship the guy. The world is full of libs and conservatives. You must work wtih libs. Just remembered, some of my canuck clients don't like Trump. Your statement is like saying Americans don't like Trump. Some do - some don't. We get it, you don't like Trump. But don't spread false info.

---

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

I said and posted on here for months prior to the election that for the first time in my life I wasn't going to vote for the GOP candidate. I changed my mind last minute based on all the pro-Hamas BS by the Dems and crazy Green Deal BS from Kamala.

I regret my vote. The reason I was not going to vote for Trump was long term v. short term. No doubt, Trump was going to be better short term than Kamala - from a traditional conservate perspective. My concern was long term. And my concerns have proven justified.

I believe long term Trump has severely damaged: the GOP, conservatism, free markets, separation of powers, our Country's reputation, ally and international relations, global security, international freedom movements, among others. I also am angry that he single-handedly has forever precluded any argument that character or the most basic level of decency matters. Laughing about "mean tweets" has turned into rationalizing or even relishing bizarre and abhorrent behavior.

I say without reservation that conservatism and decency would have been better off long term with a disastrous Kamala presidency. It would have galvanized the best of our country against liberalism and cultural debauchery.

I was wrong.

---

You're one of the most thoughtful posters on this board, and I don't disagree much with your assessment of Trump.

Where I think you err is you greatly underestimate the amount of irreversible damage that would have been done to our country by another 4 years of the Biden admin. There's a strong likelihood that Harris would have attempted to pack the Supreme Court, ala FDR, to get her agenda passed. And of course a perpetuation of open borders, gender issues, identity politics, cracking down on free speech, political prosecutions, and foreign affair blunders would have undoubtedly been a total disaster, doing lasting damage to our country.

Republicans had crappy options, including Trump. But when it's crappy vs. evil, you better choose crappy.

---

You greatly over estimate how effective Harris would have been. I see no reason that she could accomplish all those things. A Democrat controlled Congress could, and she might serve as a rubber stamp, but how terrible she was as a Vice President would not suddenly be fixed if she were President.

All that power gets you somewhere, as Trump has proven, but Harris is a talented good-for-nothing, in the political realm.

I would have much preferred that one party not control both the White House and Congress. Don't care how it's split.

Trump is not winning, he is setting the stage for some terrible abuses of power. Whether it's him doing it or another President, i don't care. I don't want anyone abusing power.

---

J.R. said:

---

BearBall said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

I said and posted on here for months prior to the election that for the first time in my life I wasn't going to vote for the GOP candidate. I changed my mind last minute based on all the pro-Hamas BS by the Dems and crazy Green Deal BS from Kamala.

I regret my vote. The reason I was not going to vote for Trump was long term v. short term. No doubt, Trump was going to be better short term than Kamala - from a traditional conservate perspective. My concern was long term. And my concerns have proven justified.

I believe long term Trump has severely damaged: the GOP, conservatism, free markets, separation of powers, our Country's reputation, ally and international relations, global security, international freedom movements, among others. I also am angry that he single-handedly has forever precluded any argument that character or the most basic level of decency matters. Laughing about "mean tweets" has turned into rationalizing or even relishing bizarre and abhorrent behavior.

I say without reservation that conservatism and decency would have been better off long term with a disastrous Kamala presidency. It would have galvanized the best of our country against liberalism and cultural debauchery.

I was wrong.

---

You're one of the most thoughtful posters on this board, and I don't disagree much with your assessment of Trump.

Where I think you err is you greatly underestimate the amount of irreversible damage that would have been done to our country by another 4 years of the Biden admin. There's a strong likelihood that Harris would have attempted to pack the Supreme Court, ala FDR, to get her agenda passed. And of course a perpetuation of open borders, gender issues, identity politics, cracking down on free speech, political prosecutions, and foreign affair blunders would have undoubtedly been a total disaster, doing lasting damage to our country.

Republicans had crappy options, including Trump. But when it's crappy vs. evil, you better choose crappy.

---

Kamala would have had a GOP House and Senate, so short damage would have been mitigated.

She would not have touched the Court.

1A - Trump has been worse than Kamala would have been. (Threatening or even suing law firms, companies, media, judges; saying it should be treasonous to teach anything anti-American in schools; suing banks for de-banking him; firing or endorsing firing of gov employees over their views.)

Trump has been WORSE on foreign policy than I think Kamala would have been. Kamala would have supported Israel and would have been much stronger for Ukraine. She likely would not have bombed Iran (so I give that issue to Trump). She would not have invaded Venezuela or bombed boats (so I give her the edge there).

She definitely would not have mistreated and in some cases threatened our closest allies, issued tariffs, etc.

She would not have been so cozy with Russia or China.

Trump's political prosecutions (or threats) are just as bad, and he is more directly involved.

Credit Trump bigly on the border, but he's also gone too far.

I also credit Trump for speaking out against wokeness, etc., but there was already a major backlash in the making there.

---

Ridiculous case of a short memory

A. Harris would have continued Biden's horribly destructive immigration flood
B. Would have continued Biden's bizarre / destructive woke policies
C. Would have continued Biden's indifference to the fentanyl crises
D. Would have INCREASED Taxes. Where Trump has provided tax relief
E. The Middle East would still be in turmoil from Iran's nuclear bomb program
F. NATO would not have increased their defense spending
G Lawfare against Christians would have not only continued….but made worse.
H. Ridiculous green regulations would have continued to hamper economic growth.
I. Implicit discrimination against white people would have increased.
J. Military recruitment and morale would have continued to plummet.



Gone too far ?
How ?

You prefer to have these criminals remain on our streets ?

How many more have to be raped or murdered before you finally wake up ?

Or will it take the killing of a family member by a drunk driving illegal to finally insert a sense of reality into your insulated world ?

---

Good summary. In short, we (and for that matter of the world) would be presently suffering through the fourth term of Obama with the main over-arching goal being doing anything and everything to insure permanent leftist democrat dominance both now and (especially) in the future - the country, the American people, and the world be damned.

---

not correct. You obviously don't travel. The rest of the world doesn't need us and it is apparent. We ain
t what we used to be. Most people of note in the world want nothing to do with Merca, by god! We lost are way.

---

I have never voted for Trump. But you are wrong. I travel the world often and do business all over the middle east, europe, baltics, south america and asia. They love Trump. It is sickening how much they worship the guy. The world is full of libs and conservatives. You must work wtih libs. Just remembered, some of my canuck clients don't like Trump. Your statement is like saying Americans don't like Trump. Some do - some don't. We get it, you don't like Trump. But don't spread false info.

---

funny, I too travel the world doing business and live in Thailand much of the time. I don't do Middle East, but the folks I run into HATE trump(mainly Euros). Thailand doesn't give 2 ****s so it is great here from that perspective.

---

ron.reagan said:

---

J.R. said:

---

BearBall said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

I said and posted on here for months prior to the election that for the first time in my life I wasn't going to vote for the GOP candidate. I changed my mind last minute based on all the pro-Hamas BS by the Dems and crazy Green Deal BS from Kamala.

I regret my vote. The reason I was not going to vote for Trump was long term v. short term. No doubt, Trump was going to be better short term than Kamala - from a traditional conservate perspective. My concern was long term. And my concerns have proven justified.

I believe long term Trump has severely damaged: the GOP, conservatism, free markets, separation of powers, our Country's reputation, ally and international relations, global security, international freedom movements, among others. I also am angry that he single-handedly has forever precluded any argument that character or the most basic level of decency matters. Laughing about "mean tweets" has turned into rationalizing or even relishing bizarre and abhorrent behavior.

I say without reservation that conservatism and decency would have been better off long term with a disastrous Kamala presidency. It would have galvanized the best of our country against liberalism and cultural debauchery.

I was wrong.

---

You're one of the most thoughtful posters on this board, and I don't disagree much with your assessment of Trump.

Where I think you err is you greatly underestimate the amount of irreversible damage that would have been done to our country by another 4 years of the Biden admin. There's a strong likelihood that Harris would have attempted to pack the Supreme Court, ala FDR, to get her agenda passed. And of course a perpetuation of open borders, gender issues, identity politics, cracking down on free speech, political prosecutions, and foreign affair blunders would have undoubtedly been a total disaster, doing lasting damage to our country.

Republicans had crappy options, including Trump. But when it's crappy vs. evil, you better choose crappy.

---

Kamala would have had a GOP House and Senate, so short damage would have been mitigated.

She would not have touched the Court.

1A - Trump has been worse than Kamala would have been. (Threatening or even suing law firms, companies, media, judges; saying it should be treasonous to teach anything anti-American in schools; suing banks for de-banking him; firing or endorsing firing of gov employees over their views.)

Trump has been WORSE on foreign policy than I think Kamala would have been. Kamala would have supported Israel and would have been much stronger for Ukraine. She likely would not have bombed Iran (so I give that issue to Trump). She would not have invaded Venezuela or bombed boats (so I give her the edge there).

She definitely would not have mistreated and in some cases threatened our closest allies, issued tariffs, etc.

She would not have been so cozy with Russia or China.

Trump's political prosecutions (or threats) are just as bad, and he is more directly involved.

Credit Trump bigly on the border, but he's also gone too far.

I also credit Trump for speaking out against wokeness, etc., but there was already a major backlash in the making there.

---

Ridiculous case of a short memory

A. Harris would have continued Biden's horribly destructive immigration flood
B. Would have continued Biden's bizarre / destructive woke policies
C. Would have continued Biden's indifference to the fentanyl crises
D. Would have INCREASED Taxes. Where Trump has provided tax relief
E. The Middle East would still be in turmoil from Iran's nuclear bomb program
F. NATO would not have increased their defense spending
G Lawfare against Christians would have not only continued….but made worse.
H. Ridiculous green regulations would have continued to hamper economic growth.
I. Implicit discrimination against white people would have increased.
J. Military recruitment and morale would have continued to plummet.



Gone too far ?
How ?

You prefer to have these criminals remain on our streets ?

How many more have to be raped or murdered before you finally wake up ?

Or will it take the killing of a family member by a drunk driving illegal to finally insert a sense of reality into your insulated world ?

---

Good summary. In short, we (and for that matter of the world) would be presently suffering through the fourth term of Obama with the main over-arching goal being doing anything and everything to insure permanent leftist democrat dominance both now and (especially) in the future - the country, the American people, and the world be damned.

---

not correct. You obviously don't travel. The rest of the world doesn't need us and it is apparent. We ain
t what we used to be. Most people of note in the world want nothing to do with Merca, by god! We lost are way.

---

I have never voted for Trump. But you are wrong. I travel the world often and do business all over the middle east, europe, baltics, south america and asia. They love Trump. It is sickening how much they worship the guy. The world is full of libs and conservatives. You must work wtih libs. Just remembered, some of my canuck clients don't like Trump. Your statement is like saying Americans don't like Trump. Some do - some don't. We get it, you don't like Trump. But don't spread false info.

---

funny, I too travel the world doing business and live in Thailand much of the time. I don't do Middle East, but the folks I run into HATE trump(mainly Euros). Thailand doesn't give 2 ****s so it is great here from that perspective.

---

I'm sure it varies by industry.

Most of my clients now are in Europe and a lot of calls start off by making fun of the US. One of my closet friends is in energy and he has a much different experience.

---

ron.reagan said:

---

J.R. said:

---

BearBall said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

I said and posted on here for months prior to the election that for the first time in my life I wasn't going to vote for the GOP candidate. I changed my mind last minute based on all the pro-Hamas BS by the Dems and crazy Green Deal BS from Kamala.

I regret my vote. The reason I was not going to vote for Trump was long term v. short term. No doubt, Trump was going to be better short term than Kamala - from a traditional conservate perspective. My concern was long term. And my concerns have proven justified.

I believe long term Trump has severely damaged: the GOP, conservatism, free markets, separation of powers, our Country's reputation, ally and international relations, global security, international freedom movements, among others. I also am angry that he single-handedly has forever precluded any argument that character or the most basic level of decency matters. Laughing about "mean tweets" has turned into rationalizing or even relishing bizarre and abhorrent behavior.

I say without reservation that conservatism and decency would have been better off long term with a disastrous Kamala presidency. It would have galvanized the best of our country against liberalism and cultural debauchery.

I was wrong.

---

You're one of the most thoughtful posters on this board, and I don't disagree much with your assessment of Trump.

Where I think you err is you greatly underestimate the amount of irreversible damage that would have been done to our country by another 4 years of the Biden admin. There's a strong likelihood that Harris would have attempted to pack the Supreme Court, ala FDR, to get her agenda passed. And of course a perpetuation of open borders, gender issues, identity politics, cracking down on free speech, political prosecutions, and foreign affair blunders would have undoubtedly been a total disaster, doing lasting damage to our country.

Republicans had crappy options, including Trump. But when it's crappy vs. evil, you better choose crappy.

---

Kamala would have had a GOP House and Senate, so short damage would have been mitigated.

She would not have touched the Court.

1A - Trump has been worse than Kamala would have been. (Threatening or even suing law firms, companies, media, judges; saying it should be treasonous to teach anything anti-American in schools; suing banks for de-banking him; firing or endorsing firing of gov employees over their views.)

Trump has been WORSE on foreign policy than I think Kamala would have been. Kamala would have supported Israel and would have been much stronger for Ukraine. She likely would not have bombed Iran (so I give that issue to Trump). She would not have invaded Venezuela or bombed boats (so I give her the edge there).

She definitely would not have mistreated and in some cases threatened our closest allies, issued tariffs, etc.

She would not have been so cozy with Russia or China.

Trump's political prosecutions (or threats) are just as bad, and he is more directly involved.

Credit Trump bigly on the border, but he's also gone too far.

I also credit Trump for speaking out against wokeness, etc., but there was already a major backlash in the making there.

---

Ridiculous case of a short memory

A. Harris would have continued Biden's horribly destructive immigration flood
B. Would have continued Biden's bizarre / destructive woke policies
C. Would have continued Biden's indifference to the fentanyl crises
D. Would have INCREASED Taxes. Where Trump has provided tax relief
E. The Middle East would still be in turmoil from Iran's nuclear bomb program
F. NATO would not have increased their defense spending
G Lawfare against Christians would have not only continued….but made worse.
H. Ridiculous green regulations would have continued to hamper economic growth.
I. Implicit discrimination against white people would have increased.
J. Military recruitment and morale would have continued to plummet.



Gone too far ?
How ?

You prefer to have these criminals remain on our streets ?

How many more have to be raped or murdered before you finally wake up ?

Or will it take the killing of a family member by a drunk driving illegal to finally insert a sense of reality into your insulated world ?

---

Good summary. In short, we (and for that matter of the world) would be presently suffering through the fourth term of Obama with the main over-arching goal being doing anything and everything to insure permanent leftist democrat dominance both now and (especially) in the future - the country, the American people, and the world be damned.

---

not correct. You obviously don't travel. The rest of the world doesn't need us and it is apparent. We ain
t what we used to be. Most people of note in the world want nothing to do with Merca, by god! We lost are way.

---

I have never voted for Trump. But you are wrong. I travel the world often and do business all over the middle east, europe, baltics, south america and asia. They love Trump. It is sickening how much they worship the guy. The world is full of libs and conservatives. You must work wtih libs. Just remembered, some of my canuck clients don't like Trump. Your statement is like saying Americans don't like Trump. Some do - some don't. We get it, you don't like Trump. But don't spread false info.

---

funny, I too travel the world doing business and live in Thailand much of the time. I don't do Middle East, but the folks I run into HATE trump(mainly Euros). Thailand doesn't give 2 ****s so it is great here from that perspective.

---

I'm sure it varies by industry.

Most of my clients now are in Europe and a lot of calls start off by making fun of the US. One of my closet friends is in energy and he has a much different experience.

---

william said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

That's fine. So what is your proposal?

Do you want to leave child molesters on the streets?

Do you want to further incentivize an insurrection against a lawful democracy?

---

Oh give it a break, no one is saying not to go after violent criminals, go full tactical. They will be applauded when they show the warrant to the public But that is the rub, you guys don't believe in transparency

How about just sending 2 agents to pick up the waitresses, kids, old people and plain workers? Not tactical units prowling the streets. It is an optic Trump is going to regret in the election. Need to back it down...

---

Who are you guys? What is our believe system? Do you have data or are you just being tribal?

So if you support removing child molesters and violent criminals, why have you spent so much energy opposing ICE?

Do you support so-called "sanctuary cities" or do you believe local officials should cooperate with federal law enforcement to remove violent criminals from the U.S.?

---

My view exactly, you can't see the difference.

Sanctuary cities? i am against them.

Process matters. How they do it matters.

---

Not really sure if that made sense to you, but not the easiest post to read ...

I have asked you multiple times - what process would you propose ICE follow?

What are the the issues unique to Minneapolis?

---

i have said numerous times. ICE needs to change tactics where they are shooting people, get a real PIO and use tactical for violent criminals not waitresses. ICE has to show they are making good faith effort to Congress.

---

'eff that. Minnesota needs to change tactics where they are refusing to turn over criminal illegal aliens with deportation orders and instead turning them loose on the streets, requiring ICE to spend substantially more money and effort to go find them.

Your ability to get an issue absolutely ass-backwards is unerring.

---

I am surprised, someone that portrays themselves as so "wordly" seems confused and frustrated by DC politic...........
Read the news this morning. This is not about immigration, that is the vehicle, this is about crushing MN and bringing them to heel. This is a Trump taking on the left, not immigration.
the MN political machine needs to be crushed, for the benefit of taxpayers all over the country.

---

The cost of NOT getting the job done in MN is far higher than what we see now. For you, too. You do care about billions of dollars of fraudulent use of federal funds, don't you? No, you'd rather criticize Trump for not doing enough to stop spending, then savage him for actually attempting to stop spending.

---

The bigger issue in MN is the billions of dollars stolen by State sanctioned Fraud - make that the priority for now.....

- UF

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

That's fine. So what is your proposal?

Do you want to leave child molesters on the streets?

Do you want to further incentivize an insurrection against a lawful democracy?

---

Oh give it a break, no one is saying not to go after violent criminals, go full tactical. They will be applauded when they show the warrant to the public But that is the rub, you guys don't believe in transparency

How about just sending 2 agents to pick up the waitresses, kids, old people and plain workers? Not tactical units prowling the streets. It is an optic Trump is going to regret in the election. Need to back it down...

---

Who are you guys? What is our believe system? Do you have data or are you just being tribal?

So if you support removing child molesters and violent criminals, why have you spent so much energy opposing ICE?

Do you support so-called "sanctuary cities" or do you believe local officials should cooperate with federal law enforcement to remove violent criminals from the U.S.?

---

My view exactly, you can't see the difference.

Sanctuary cities? i am against them.

Process matters. How they do it matters.

---

Not really sure if that made sense to you, but not the easiest post to read ...

I have asked you multiple times - what process would you propose ICE follow?

What are the the issues unique to Minneapolis?

---

i have said numerous times. ICE needs to change tactics where they are shooting people, get a real PIO and use tactical for violent criminals not waitresses. ICE has to show they are making good faith effort to Congress.

---

'eff that. Minnesota needs to change tactics where they are refusing to turn over criminal illegal aliens with deportation orders and instead turning them loose on the streets, requiring ICE to spend substantially more money and effort to go find them.

Your ability to get an issue absolutely ass-backwards is unerring.

---

I am surprised, someone that portrays themselves as so "wordly" seems confused and frustrated by DC politics. You know or should know it is not about what is right. It is about votes to stay in power to actually do your agenda.
We agree. Walz administration is desperate to not have its political machine upended by mass deportations.

This is becoming a loser. Your ability to change a positive to a negative is just as unerring.
The American people do not like conflict. They tend to blame GOP for it (thanks in no small part to media bias). So it's no surprise this has harmed his poll numbers. The only thing that would harm them more is to retreat. His base would be supremely disappointed. They matter, too, right? Just as much as the Democrat base, right?

The only ones who see success is you and your band, that will equal midterm crushing. You are losing the Independents, what happened in 2020 when that happened?
The mid-terms were lost the day he got elected. The only question is can we avoid what history teaches is inevitable. Riots in MN will not have any effect on the mid-terms, unless they are still ongoing. Ergo, win the damned thing and turn voter focus to the economy, which will be doing very, very well as the mid-terms approach.

You should know as well as anyone there sre always two issues: what is right and what is politically expedient. Rarely do you get to do what is right.
They call that the "middle ground fallacy." More often than not, one side is fully/mostly right and the other is fully/mostly wrong (like your posts about Trump.)

The political cost of your way, even though it is right is getting too high. Now, dont get me wrong, Trump dont care.

Read the news this morning. This is not about immigration, that is the vehicle, this is about crushing MN and bringing them to heel. This is a Trump taking on the left, not immigration.
the MN political machine needs to be crushed, for the benefit of taxpayers all over the country.

---

The cost of NOT getting the job done in MN is far higher than what we see now. For you, too. You do care about billions of dollars of fraudulent use of federal funds, don't you? No, you'd rather criticize Trump for not doing enough to stop spending, then savage him for actually attempting to stop spending.

---

Let's quantify, what is the mission? That may help everyone.
Ok, Mr. Obtusity...let's see.... There's a sanctuary city problem complicating deportation of criminal illegal aliens which is likely flouts the Supremacy Clause. Then there's insurrection problem, where the LtGov is organizing (insert description here) to obstruct apprehension of individuals subject to deportation orders. Then there's the problem of MN facilitating fraud of federal funds in order to build/protect its political base. I'll let you put them in order, of priority, but none of them can be ignored. They all have to be dealt with.

Is it truly to run down and deport misdemeanor immigration abusers? If so, why the combat tactics?
That wouldn't be necessary if MSP police cooperated with ICE and turned over criminal illegal aliens in their custody rather than releasing on the streets for ICE to go find on their own (wading thru throngs of "demonstrators" seeking to physicallyl impede ICE operations). The combat tactics are necessary because many of these illegals are members of drug cartels. Some are members of terror groups. (and of course those subsets have substantial overlap). That Antifa and adjacent groups are tracking and targeting LEOs personally is a factor in ICE operations. They have to protect their officers (and by extension officers' families). Hell, they're vandalizing the hotels where federal officers say.

Is it truly to get the felony, violent criminal illegals? Manifestly so. If so, why are we getting distracted by the small fish? They're not going to let the small fish go when they encounter them. That's not a distraction. It's a byproduct of how many damned illegal aliens we have subject to deportation order. (By the way, MN is wrong in not turning over anyone in the jails. That does not serve the greater good.) Agreed. It's the proximate cause of what we're seeing. They stop the sanctuary city nonsense, the whole situation is defused.

Is it to break the left? That makes the most sense based on how they are doing it. This is shock and awe, but I am not sure of the target.
It only "breaks the left" to the extent the left's political base is dependent on illegal aliens and/or fraudulent activity. Judging from the Democrat reaction, I'd say that extent is substantial. They're acting like it's existential.

This is not following a law enforcement/immigration process and ICE leadership is not working with the locals very well. Nothing gets done if the locals hate you and are working to deny you. Yet, nothing is being done to win over the locals, to the contrary this is more like an occupation.
Good grief the Obtusity rears its head again, this time in a profoundly humorous cause/effect error. MN did not become a sanctuary state because Trump got too handsy with some not terribly criminal illegal aliens. MN became a sanctuary state long before Trump got elected because Democrats believe in open borders and depend on illegal aliens for political power.

Finally, I do not agree with your final paragraph. You see us and them. I see only us.
You are a damned romantic fool. We have no functioning social contract. MN is a perfect example. There is no reason why state or local government should impede federal deportation operations. It's outside their jurisdiction. And it is insanity for Democrat leadership to be inciting crowds to go interfere with such, calling ICE the Gestapo, etc.....

They are Americans just like you and me, the Federal Government is in place to serve and protect the people. Not the other way around.
....and deporting illegal aliens is an enumerated Constitutional responsibility of the federal government, specifically to serve and protect the American people, who at no time have ever come close to supporting violating law to allow in 3m refugees a year.
You are looking to crush Americans, that is wrong.
Nope. I'm looking to deport illegal aliens, and arrest anyone who gets in the way (as such interference is illegal).
That is not a founding principle, actually the opposite we are supposed to be against oppressive Government and oppressive is not left or right. It can be both.
Oh please.

---

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

That's fine. So what is your proposal?

Do you want to leave child molesters on the streets?

Do you want to further incentivize an insurrection against a lawful democracy?

---

Oh give it a break, no one is saying not to go after violent criminals, go full tactical. They will be applauded when they show the warrant to the public But that is the rub, you guys don't believe in transparency

How about just sending 2 agents to pick up the waitresses, kids, old people and plain workers? Not tactical units prowling the streets. It is an optic Trump is going to regret in the election. Need to back it down...

---

Who are you guys? What is our believe system? Do you have data or are you just being tribal?

So if you support removing child molesters and violent criminals, why have you spent so much energy opposing ICE?

Do you support so-called "sanctuary cities" or do you believe local officials should cooperate with federal law enforcement to remove violent criminals from the U.S.?

---

My view exactly, you can't see the difference.

Sanctuary cities? i am against them.

Process matters. How they do it matters.

---

Not really sure if that made sense to you, but not the easiest post to read ...

I have asked you multiple times - what process would you propose ICE follow?

What are the the issues unique to Minneapolis?

---

i have said numerous times. ICE needs to change tactics where they are shooting people, get a real PIO and use tactical for violent criminals not waitresses. ICE has to show they are making good faith effort to Congress.

---

'eff that. Minnesota needs to change tactics where they are refusing to turn over criminal illegal aliens with deportation orders and instead turning them loose on the streets, requiring ICE to spend substantially more money and effort to go find them.

Your ability to get an issue absolutely ass-backwards is unerring.

---

I am surprised, someone that portrays themselves as so "wordly" seems confused and frustrated by DC politics. You know or should know it is not about what is right. It is about votes to stay in power to actually do your agenda.
We agree. Walz administration is desperate to not have its political machine upended by mass deportations.

This is becoming a loser. Your ability to change a positive to a negative is just as unerring.
The American people do not like conflict. They tend to blame GOP for it (thanks in no small part to media bias). So it's no surprise this has harmed his poll numbers. The only thing that would harm them more is to retreat. His base would be supremely disappointed. They matter, too, right? Just as much as the Democrat base, right?

The only ones who see success is you and your band, that will equal midterm crushing. You are losing the Independents, what happened in 2020 when that happened?
The mid-terms were lost the day he got elected. The only question is can we avoid what history teaches is inevitable. Riots in MN will not have any effect on the mid-terms, unless they are still ongoing. Ergo, win the damned thing and turn voter focus to the economy, which will be doing very, very well as the mid-terms approach.

You should know as well as anyone there sre always two issues: what is right and what is politically expedient. Rarely do you get to do what is right.
They call that the "middle ground fallacy." More often than not, one side is fully/mostly right and the other is fully/mostly wrong (like your posts about Trump.)

The political cost of your way, even though it is right is getting too high. Now, dont get me wrong, Trump dont care.

Read the news this morning. This is not about immigration, that is the vehicle, this is about crushing MN and bringing them to heel. This is a Trump taking on the left, not immigration.
the MN political machine needs to be crushed, for the benefit of taxpayers all over the country.

---

The cost of NOT getting the job done in MN is far higher than what we see now. For you, too. You do care about billions of dollars of fraudulent use of federal funds, don't you? No, you'd rather criticize Trump for not doing enough to stop spending, then savage him for actually attempting to stop spending.

---

Let's quantify, what is the mission? That may help everyone.
Ok, Mr. Obtusity...let's see.... There's a sanctuary city problem complicating deportation of criminal illegal aliens which is likely flouts the Supremacy Clause. Then there's insurrection problem, where the LtGov is organizing (insert description here) to obstruct apprehension of individuals subject to deportation orders. Then there's the problem of MN facilitating fraud of federal funds in order to build/protect its political base. I'll let you put them in order, of priority, but none of them can be ignored. They all have to be dealt with.

Is it truly to run down and deport misdemeanor immigration abusers? If so, why the combat tactics?
That wouldn't be necessary if MSP police cooperated with ICE and turned over criminal illegal aliens in their custody rather than releasing on the streets for ICE to go find on their own (wading thru throngs of "demonstrators" seeking to physicallyl impede ICE operations). The combat tactics are necessary because many of these illegals are members of drug cartels. Some are members of terror groups. (and of course those subsets have substantial overlap). That Antifa and adjacent groups are tracking and targeting LEOs personally is a factor in ICE operations. They have to protect their officers (and by extension officers' families). Hell, they're vandalizing the hotels where federal officers say.

Is it truly to get the felony, violent criminal illegals? Manifestly so. If so, why are we getting distracted by the small fish? They're not going to let the small fish go when they encounter them. That's not a distraction. It's a byproduct of how many damned illegal aliens we have subject to deportation order. (By the way, MN is wrong in not turning over anyone in the jails. That does not serve the greater good.) Agreed. It's the proximate cause of what we're seeing. They stop the sanctuary city nonsense, the whole situation is defused.

Is it to break the left? That makes the most sense based on how they are doing it. This is shock and awe, but I am not sure of the target.
It only "breaks the left" to the extent the left's political base is dependent on illegal aliens and/or fraudulent activity. Judging from the Democrat reaction, I'd say that extent is substantial. They're acting like it's existential.

This is not following a law enforcement/immigration process and ICE leadership is not working with the locals very well. Nothing gets done if the locals hate you and are working to deny you. Yet, nothing is being done to win over the locals, to the contrary this is more like an occupation.
Good grief the Obtusity rears its head again, this time in a profoundly humorous cause/effect error. MN did not become a sanctuary state because Trump got too handsy with some not terribly criminal illegal aliens. MN became a sanctuary state long before Trump got elected because Democrats believe in open borders and depend on illegal aliens for political power.

Finally, I do not agree with your final paragraph. You see us and them. I see only us.
You are a damned romantic fool. We have no functioning social contract. MN is a perfect example. There is no reason why state or local government should impede federal deportation operations. It's outside their jurisdiction. And it is insanity for Democrat leadership to be inciting crowds to go interfere with such, calling ICE the Gestapo, etc.....

They are Americans just like you and me, the Federal Government is in place to serve and protect the people. Not the other way around.
....and deporting illegal aliens is an enumerated Constitutional responsibility of the federal government, specifically to serve and protect the American people, who at no time have ever come close to supporting violating law to allow in 3m refugees a year.
You are looking to crush Americans, that is wrong.
Nope. I'm looking to deport illegal aliens, and arrest anyone who gets in the way (as such interference is illegal).
That is not a founding principle, actually the opposite we are supposed to be against oppressive Government and oppressive is not left or right. It can be both.
Oh please.

---

If you believe in open borders, be honest and say so.
If you like sanctuary states/cities, be honest and say so.
If you think it's ok for Democrat elected leaders to organize riots to impede federal LE operations, be honest and say so.

Stop pretending that just being nice and doing nothing will make all our problems go away.

Trump didn't create the illegal alien problem. He's fixing it.
Trump didn't create the sanctuary city problem. He's fixing it.
Trump didn't create the riots in MSP. Tim Walz did.

Good grief man....

---

There is no in between??? It is either we have 3000 masked ICE Agents in the street in tactical gear or open Borders?
I don't think you could function without a middle ground fallacy in hand. Yes, we needed 3000 masked ICE agents in tactical gear doing operations in MN to get the job done, because MN is a sanctuary state where Democrat electeds are literally organizing mobs to frustrate ICE operations.

We deported more under Obama (the most), Clinton (2nd), Trump 1 (3rd) and GHW Bush (4) and we didn't do this. All of a sudden it is imperative that we send 3000 Agents to Minnesota??? Good grief, man.
Yeah, good grief! Neither Obama nor Clinton nor Trump had their predecessor dump 10m unvetted illegal aliens into the country. It is indeed imperative that we reduce the number substantially and quickly.

What you are saying is ridiculous. We are getting more negative, less deportations and more civilians killed under this. That is a good operation??
Ok genius. Tell us how you increase the deportations by being Mr. Nice Guy.

If this is just being punitive just say so.
It's not being punitive. It's being effective.
If we are weaponizing ICE just say so.
ICE is weaponized to deport illegal aliens. It's literally what the agency was formed to do.

Because it sure looks that way.
Yes, it does look like we have a new sheriff who is resolute on doing the job he was elected to do.

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

That's fine. So what is your proposal?

Do you want to leave child molesters on the streets?

Do you want to further incentivize an insurrection against a lawful democracy?

---

Oh give it a break, no one is saying not to go after violent criminals, go full tactical. They will be applauded when they show the warrant to the public But that is the rub, you guys don't believe in transparency

How about just sending 2 agents to pick up the waitresses, kids, old people and plain workers? Not tactical units prowling the streets. It is an optic Trump is going to regret in the election. Need to back it down...

---

Who are you guys? What is our believe system? Do you have data or are you just being tribal?

So if you support removing child molesters and violent criminals, why have you spent so much energy opposing ICE?

Do you support so-called "sanctuary cities" or do you believe local officials should cooperate with federal law enforcement to remove violent criminals from the U.S.?

---

My view exactly, you can't see the difference.

Sanctuary cities? i am against them.

Process matters. How they do it matters.

---

Not really sure if that made sense to you, but not the easiest post to read ...

I have asked you multiple times - what process would you propose ICE follow?

What are the the issues unique to Minneapolis?

---

i have said numerous times. ICE needs to change tactics where they are shooting people, get a real PIO and use tactical for violent criminals not waitresses. ICE has to show they are making good faith effort to Congress.

---

'eff that. Minnesota needs to change tactics where they are refusing to turn over criminal illegal aliens with deportation orders and instead turning them loose on the streets, requiring ICE to spend substantially more money and effort to go find them.

Your ability to get an issue absolutely ass-backwards is unerring.

---

I am surprised, someone that portrays themselves as so "wordly" seems confused and frustrated by DC politics. You know or should know it is not about what is right. It is about votes to stay in power to actually do your agenda.
We agree. Walz administration is desperate to not have its political machine upended by mass deportations.

This is becoming a loser. Your ability to change a positive to a negative is just as unerring.
The American people do not like conflict. They tend to blame GOP for it (thanks in no small part to media bias). So it's no surprise this has harmed his poll numbers. The only thing that would harm them more is to retreat. His base would be supremely disappointed. They matter, too, right? Just as much as the Democrat base, right?

The only ones who see success is you and your band, that will equal midterm crushing. You are losing the Independents, what happened in 2020 when that happened?
The mid-terms were lost the day he got elected. The only question is can we avoid what history teaches is inevitable. Riots in MN will not have any effect on the mid-terms, unless they are still ongoing. Ergo, win the damned thing and turn voter focus to the economy, which will be doing very, very well as the mid-terms approach.

You should know as well as anyone there sre always two issues: what is right and what is politically expedient. Rarely do you get to do what is right.
They call that the "middle ground fallacy." More often than not, one side is fully/mostly right and the other is fully/mostly wrong (like your posts about Trump.)

The political cost of your way, even though it is right is getting too high. Now, dont get me wrong, Trump dont care.

Read the news this morning. This is not about immigration, that is the vehicle, this is about crushing MN and bringing them to heel. This is a Trump taking on the left, not immigration.
the MN political machine needs to be crushed, for the benefit of taxpayers all over the country.

---

The cost of NOT getting the job done in MN is far higher than what we see now. For you, too. You do care about billions of dollars of fraudulent use of federal funds, don't you? No, you'd rather criticize Trump for not doing enough to stop spending, then savage him for actually attempting to stop spending.

---

Let's quantify, what is the mission? That may help everyone.
Ok, Mr. Obtusity...let's see.... There's a sanctuary city problem complicating deportation of criminal illegal aliens which is likely flouts the Supremacy Clause. Then there's insurrection problem, where the LtGov is organizing (insert description here) to obstruct apprehension of individuals subject to deportation orders. Then there's the problem of MN facilitating fraud of federal funds in order to build/protect its political base. I'll let you put them in order, of priority, but none of them can be ignored. They all have to be dealt with.

Is it truly to run down and deport misdemeanor immigration abusers? If so, why the combat tactics?
That wouldn't be necessary if MSP police cooperated with ICE and turned over criminal illegal aliens in their custody rather than releasing on the streets for ICE to go find on their own (wading thru throngs of "demonstrators" seeking to physicallyl impede ICE operations). The combat tactics are necessary because many of these illegals are members of drug cartels. Some are members of terror groups. (and of course those subsets have substantial overlap). That Antifa and adjacent groups are tracking and targeting LEOs personally is a factor in ICE operations. They have to protect their officers (and by extension officers' families). Hell, they're vandalizing the hotels where federal officers say.

Is it truly to get the felony, violent criminal illegals? Manifestly so. If so, why are we getting distracted by the small fish? They're not going to let the small fish go when they encounter them. That's not a distraction. It's a byproduct of how many damned illegal aliens we have subject to deportation order. (By the way, MN is wrong in not turning over anyone in the jails. That does not serve the greater good.) Agreed. It's the proximate cause of what we're seeing. They stop the sanctuary city nonsense, the whole situation is defused.

Is it to break the left? That makes the most sense based on how they are doing it. This is shock and awe, but I am not sure of the target.
It only "breaks the left" to the extent the left's political base is dependent on illegal aliens and/or fraudulent activity. Judging from the Democrat reaction, I'd say that extent is substantial. They're acting like it's existential.

This is not following a law enforcement/immigration process and ICE leadership is not working with the locals very well. Nothing gets done if the locals hate you and are working to deny you. Yet, nothing is being done to win over the locals, to the contrary this is more like an occupation.
Good grief the Obtusity rears its head again, this time in a profoundly humorous cause/effect error. MN did not become a sanctuary state because Trump got too handsy with some not terribly criminal illegal aliens. MN became a sanctuary state long before Trump got elected because Democrats believe in open borders and depend on illegal aliens for political power.

Finally, I do not agree with your final paragraph. You see us and them. I see only us.
You are a damned romantic fool. We have no functioning social contract. MN is a perfect example. There is no reason why state or local government should impede federal deportation operations. It's outside their jurisdiction. And it is insanity for Democrat leadership to be inciting crowds to go interfere with such, calling ICE the Gestapo, etc.....

They are Americans just like you and me, the Federal Government is in place to serve and protect the people. Not the other way around.
....and deporting illegal aliens is an enumerated Constitutional responsibility of the federal government, specifically to serve and protect the American people, who at no time have ever come close to supporting violating law to allow in 3m refugees a year.
You are looking to crush Americans, that is wrong.
Nope. I'm looking to deport illegal aliens, and arrest anyone who gets in the way (as such interference is illegal).
That is not a founding principle, actually the opposite we are supposed to be against oppressive Government and oppressive is not left or right. It can be both.
Oh please.

---

If you believe in open borders, be honest and say so.
If you like sanctuary states/cities, be honest and say so.
If you think it's ok for Democrat elected leaders to organize riots to impede federal LE operations, be honest and say so.

Stop pretending that just being nice and doing nothing will make all our problems go away.

Trump didn't create the illegal alien problem. He's fixing it.
Trump didn't create the sanctuary city problem. He's fixing it.
Trump didn't create the riots in MSP. Tim Walz did.

Good grief man....

---

There is no in between??? It is either we have 3000 masked ICE Agents in the street in tactical gear or open Borders?
I don't think you could function without a middle ground fallacy in hand. Yes, we needed 3000 masked ICE agents in tactical gear doing operations in MN to get the job done, because MN is a sanctuary state where Democrat electeds are literally organizing mobs to frustrate ICE operations.

We deported more under Obama (the most), Clinton (2nd), Trump 1 (3rd) and GHW Bush (4) and we didn't do this. All of a sudden it is imperative that we send 3000 Agents to Minnesota??? Good grief, man.
Yeah, good grief! Neither Obama nor Clinton nor Trump had their predecessor dump 10m unvetted illegal aliens into the country. It is indeed imperative that we reduce the number substantially and quickly.

What you are saying is ridiculous. We are getting more negative, less deportations and more civilians killed under this. That is a good operation??
Ok genius. Tell us how you increase the deportations by being Mr. Nice Guy.

If this is just being punitive just say so.
It's not being punitive. It's being effective.
If we are weaponizing ICE just say so.
ICE is weaponized to deport illegal aliens. It's literally what the agency was formed to do.

Because it sure looks that way.
Yes, it does look like we have a new sheriff who is resolute on doing the job he was elected to do.

---

Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

That's fine. So what is your proposal?

Do you want to leave child molesters on the streets?

Do you want to further incentivize an insurrection against a lawful democracy?

---

Oh give it a break, no one is saying not to go after violent criminals, go full tactical. They will be applauded when they show the warrant to the public But that is the rub, you guys don't believe in transparency

How about just sending 2 agents to pick up the waitresses, kids, old people and plain workers? Not tactical units prowling the streets. It is an optic Trump is going to regret in the election. Need to back it down...

---

Who are you guys? What is our believe system? Do you have data or are you just being tribal?

So if you support removing child molesters and violent criminals, why have you spent so much energy opposing ICE?

Do you support so-called "sanctuary cities" or do you believe local officials should cooperate with federal law enforcement to remove violent criminals from the U.S.?

---

My view exactly, you can't see the difference.

Sanctuary cities? i am against them.

Process matters. How they do it matters.

---

Not really sure if that made sense to you, but not the easiest post to read ...

I have asked you multiple times - what process would you propose ICE follow?

What are the the issues unique to Minneapolis?

---

i have said numerous times. ICE needs to change tactics where they are shooting people, get a real PIO and use tactical for violent criminals not waitresses. ICE has to show they are making good faith effort to Congress.

---

'eff that. Minnesota needs to change tactics where they are refusing to turn over criminal illegal aliens with deportation orders and instead turning them loose on the streets, requiring ICE to spend substantially more money and effort to go find them.

Your ability to get an issue absolutely ass-backwards is unerring.

---

I am surprised, someone that portrays themselves as so "wordly" seems confused and frustrated by DC politics. You know or should know it is not about what is right. It is about votes to stay in power to actually do your agenda.
We agree. Walz administration is desperate to not have its political machine upended by mass deportations.

This is becoming a loser. Your ability to change a positive to a negative is just as unerring.
The American people do not like conflict. They tend to blame GOP for it (thanks in no small part to media bias). So it's no surprise this has harmed his poll numbers. The only thing that would harm them more is to retreat. His base would be supremely disappointed. They matter, too, right? Just as much as the Democrat base, right?

The only ones who see success is you and your band, that will equal midterm crushing. You are losing the Independents, what happened in 2020 when that happened?
The mid-terms were lost the day he got elected. The only question is can we avoid what history teaches is inevitable. Riots in MN will not have any effect on the mid-terms, unless they are still ongoing. Ergo, win the damned thing and turn voter focus to the economy, which will be doing very, very well as the mid-terms approach.

You should know as well as anyone there sre always two issues: what is right and what is politically expedient. Rarely do you get to do what is right.
They call that the "middle ground fallacy." More often than not, one side is fully/mostly right and the other is fully/mostly wrong (like your posts about Trump.)

The political cost of your way, even though it is right is getting too high. Now, dont get me wrong, Trump dont care.

Read the news this morning. This is not about immigration, that is the vehicle, this is about crushing MN and bringing them to heel. This is a Trump taking on the left, not immigration.
the MN political machine needs to be crushed, for the benefit of taxpayers all over the country.

---

The cost of NOT getting the job done in MN is far higher than what we see now. For you, too. You do care about billions of dollars of fraudulent use of federal funds, don't you? No, you'd rather criticize Trump for not doing enough to stop spending, then savage him for actually attempting to stop spending.

---

Let's quantify, what is the mission? That may help everyone.
Ok, Mr. Obtusity...let's see.... There's a sanctuary city problem complicating deportation of criminal illegal aliens which is likely flouts the Supremacy Clause. Then there's insurrection problem, where the LtGov is organizing (insert description here) to obstruct apprehension of individuals subject to deportation orders. Then there's the problem of MN facilitating fraud of federal funds in order to build/protect its political base. I'll let you put them in order, of priority, but none of them can be ignored. They all have to be dealt with.

Is it truly to run down and deport misdemeanor immigration abusers? If so, why the combat tactics?
That wouldn't be necessary if MSP police cooperated with ICE and turned over criminal illegal aliens in their custody rather than releasing on the streets for ICE to go find on their own (wading thru throngs of "demonstrators" seeking to physicallyl impede ICE operations). The combat tactics are necessary because many of these illegals are members of drug cartels. Some are members of terror groups. (and of course those subsets have substantial overlap). That Antifa and adjacent groups are tracking and targeting LEOs personally is a factor in ICE operations. They have to protect their officers (and by extension officers' families). Hell, they're vandalizing the hotels where federal officers say.

Is it truly to get the felony, violent criminal illegals? Manifestly so. If so, why are we getting distracted by the small fish? They're not going to let the small fish go when they encounter them. That's not a distraction. It's a byproduct of how many damned illegal aliens we have subject to deportation order. (By the way, MN is wrong in not turning over anyone in the jails. That does not serve the greater good.) Agreed. It's the proximate cause of what we're seeing. They stop the sanctuary city nonsense, the whole situation is defused.

Is it to break the left? That makes the most sense based on how they are doing it. This is shock and awe, but I am not sure of the target.
It only "breaks the left" to the extent the left's political base is dependent on illegal aliens and/or fraudulent activity. Judging from the Democrat reaction, I'd say that extent is substantial. They're acting like it's existential.

This is not following a law enforcement/immigration process and ICE leadership is not working with the locals very well. Nothing gets done if the locals hate you and are working to deny you. Yet, nothing is being done to win over the locals, to the contrary this is more like an occupation.
Good grief the Obtusity rears its head again, this time in a profoundly humorous cause/effect error. MN did not become a sanctuary state because Trump got too handsy with some not terribly criminal illegal aliens. MN became a sanctuary state long before Trump got elected because Democrats believe in open borders and depend on illegal aliens for political power.

Finally, I do not agree with your final paragraph. You see us and them. I see only us.
You are a damned romantic fool. We have no functioning social contract. MN is a perfect example. There is no reason why state or local government should impede federal deportation operations. It's outside their jurisdiction. And it is insanity for Democrat leadership to be inciting crowds to go interfere with such, calling ICE the Gestapo, etc.....

They are Americans just like you and me, the Federal Government is in place to serve and protect the people. Not the other way around.
....and deporting illegal aliens is an enumerated Constitutional responsibility of the federal government, specifically to serve and protect the American people, who at no time have ever come close to supporting violating law to allow in 3m refugees a year.
You are looking to crush Americans, that is wrong.
Nope. I'm looking to deport illegal aliens, and arrest anyone who gets in the way (as such interference is illegal).
That is not a founding principle, actually the opposite we are supposed to be against oppressive Government and oppressive is not left or right. It can be both.
Oh please.

---

If you believe in open borders, be honest and say so.
If you like sanctuary states/cities, be honest and say so.
If you think it's ok for Democrat elected leaders to organize riots to impede federal LE operations, be honest and say so.

Stop pretending that just being nice and doing nothing will make all our problems go away.

Trump didn't create the illegal alien problem. He's fixing it.
Trump didn't create the sanctuary city problem. He's fixing it.
Trump didn't create the riots in MSP. Tim Walz did.

Good grief man....

---

There is no in between??? It is either we have 3000 masked ICE Agents in the street in tactical gear or open Borders?
I don't think you could function without a middle ground fallacy in hand. Yes, we needed 3000 masked ICE agents in tactical gear doing operations in MN to get the job done, because MN is a sanctuary state where Democrat electeds are literally organizing mobs to frustrate ICE operations.

We deported more under Obama (the most), Clinton (2nd), Trump 1 (3rd) and GHW Bush (4) and we didn't do this. All of a sudden it is imperative that we send 3000 Agents to Minnesota??? Good grief, man.
Yeah, good grief! Neither Obama nor Clinton nor Trump had their predecessor dump 10m unvetted illegal aliens into the country. It is indeed imperative that we reduce the number substantially and quickly.

What you are saying is ridiculous. We are getting more negative, less deportations and more civilians killed under this. That is a good operation??
Ok genius. Tell us how you increase the deportations by being Mr. Nice Guy.

If this is just being punitive just say so.
It's not being punitive. It's being effective.
If we are weaponizing ICE just say so.
ICE is weaponized to deport illegal aliens. It's literally what the agency was formed to do.

Because it sure looks that way.
Yes, it does look like we have a new sheriff who is resolute on doing the job he was elected to do.

---

Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

---

I agree with you on the Census. That is the strongest case you have made. It needs to be cleaned up, illegals can't count in apportionment.

---

Waco1947 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

---

I agree with you on the Census. That is the strongest case you have made. It needs to be cleaned up, illegals can't count in apportionment.

---

Not counting them harms the districts where they reside -- less federal dollars

---

Waco1947 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

---

I agree with you on the Census. That is the strongest case you have made. It needs to be cleaned up, illegals can't count in apportionment.

---

Not counting them harms the districts where they reside -- less federal dollars

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

---

I agree with you on the Census. That is the strongest case you have made. It needs to be cleaned up, illegals can't count in apportionment.

---

Not counting them harms the districts where they reside -- less federal dollars

---

I did not think they were eligible for welfare? Were you lying?

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

---

I agree with you on the Census. That is the strongest case you have made. It needs to be cleaned up, illegals can't count in apportionment.

---

Not counting them harms the districts where they reside -- less federal dollars

---

I did not think they were eligible for welfare? Were you lying?

---

Besides benefits which they are not eligible for, the census deterimens infratstructure constructions, education funds, veteran funds, etc

---

Not worth trying to explain how things work, this crowd sees what they want to see. Stormtroopers under Biden are Fascist. Stormtroopers under Trump are heroes.

Forcing Congress out of session and evacuating is their right. A guy videoing ICE and helping a lady up, deserved to be shot.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

---

I agree with you on the Census. That is the strongest case you have made. It needs to be cleaned up, illegals can't count in apportionment.

---

Not counting them harms the districts where they reside -- less federal dollars

---

I did not think they were eligible for welfare? Were you lying?

---

Besides benefits which they are not eligible for, the census deterimens infratstructure constructions, education funds, veteran funds, etc

---

Not worth trying to explain how things work, this crowd sees what they want to see. Stormtroopers under Biden are Fascist. Stormtroopers under Trump are heroes.

Forcing Congress out of session and evacuating is their right. A guy videoing ICE and helping a lady up, deserved to be shot.

---

Ouch. Brutal but accurate.

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

---

I agree with you on the Census. That is the strongest case you have made. It needs to be cleaned up, illegals can't count in apportionment.

---

Not counting them harms the districts where they reside -- less federal dollars

---

I did not think they were eligible for welfare? Were you lying?

---

Besides benefits which they are not eligible for, the census deterimens infratstructure constructions, education funds, veteran funds, etc

---

Not worth trying to explain how things work, this crowd sees what they want to see. Stormtroopers under Biden are Fascist. Stormtroopers under Trump are heroes.

Forcing Congress out of session and evacuating is their right. A guy videoing ICE and helping a lady up, deserved to be shot.

---

Ouch. Brutal but accurate.

---

except for the part about Biden's Stormtroopers going after law abiding American citizens for merely attending a demonstration, while Trump's Stormtroopers are going after criminal illegal aliens with valid deportation orders.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

---

I agree with you on the Census. That is the strongest case you have made. It needs to be cleaned up, illegals can't count in apportionment.

---

Not counting them harms the districts where they reside -- less federal dollars

---

I did not think they were eligible for welfare? Were you lying?

---

Besides benefits which they are not eligible for, the census deterimens infratstructure constructions, education funds, veteran funds, etc

---

Not worth trying to explain how things work, this crowd sees what they want to see. Stormtroopers under Biden are Fascist. Stormtroopers under Trump are heroes.

Forcing Congress out of session and evacuating is their right. A guy videoing ICE and helping a lady up, deserved to be shot.

---

Ouch. Brutal but accurate.

---

except for the part about Biden's Stormtroopers going after law abiding American citizens for merely attending a demonstration, while Trump's Stormtroopers are going after criminal illegal aliens with valid deportation orders.

---

There's no legal process to ascertain or ensure that they're going after criminal illegal aliens. You told me so yourself.

---

Waco1947 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

---

I agree with you on the Census. That is the strongest case you have made. It needs to be cleaned up, illegals can't count in apportionment.

---

Not counting them harms the districts where they reside -- less federal dollars

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

---

I agree with you on the Census. That is the strongest case you have made. It needs to be cleaned up, illegals can't count in apportionment.

---

Not counting them harms the districts where they reside -- less federal dollars

---

I did not think they were eligible for welfare? Were you lying?

---

Besides benefits which they are not eligible for, the census deterimens infratstructure constructions, education funds, veteran funds, etc

---

Not worth trying to explain how things work, this crowd sees what they want to see. Stormtroopers under Biden are Fascist. Stormtroopers under Trump are heroes.

Forcing Congress out of session and evacuating is their right. A guy videoing ICE and helping a lady up, deserved to be shot.

---

Ouch. Brutal but accurate.

---

except for the part about Biden's Stormtroopers going after law abiding American citizens for merely attending a demonstration, while Trump's Stormtroopers are going after criminal illegal aliens with valid deportation orders.

---

There's no legal process to ascertain or ensure that they're going after criminal illegal aliens. You told me so yourself.

---

no need to identify whether they are criminal or not. Illegal aliens are subject to deportation, anywhere/anytime, whether they've been charged with or convicted of a crime or not. Most of the targets of the current raids are illegal aliens with valid deportation orders, but are being protected in sanctuary cities...first by local law enforcement who refuses to turn them over to ICE and releases them onto the streets, forcing ICE to dig them out one by one, and second by mobs interfering with the deportation operations.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

---

I agree with you on the Census. That is the strongest case you have made. It needs to be cleaned up, illegals can't count in apportionment.

---

Not counting them harms the districts where they reside -- less federal dollars

---

I did not think they were eligible for welfare? Were you lying?

---

Besides benefits which they are not eligible for, the census deterimens infratstructure constructions, education funds, veteran funds, etc

---

Not worth trying to explain how things work, this crowd sees what they want to see. Stormtroopers under Biden are Fascist. Stormtroopers under Trump are heroes.

Forcing Congress out of session and evacuating is their right. A guy videoing ICE and helping a lady up, deserved to be shot.

---

Ouch. Brutal but accurate.

---

except for the part about Biden's Stormtroopers going after law abiding American citizens for merely attending a demonstration, while Trump's Stormtroopers are going after criminal illegal aliens with valid deportation orders.

---

There's no legal process to ascertain or ensure that they're going after criminal illegal aliens. You told me so yourself.

---

no need to identify whether they are criminal or not. Illegal aliens are subject to deportation, anywhere/anytime, whether they've been charged with or convicted of a crime or not. Most of the targets of the current raids are illegal aliens with valid deportation orders, but are being protected in sanctuary cities...first by local law enforcement who refuses to turn them over to ICE and releases them onto the streets, forcing ICE to dig them out one by one, and second by mobs interfering with the deportation operations.

---

There's no real way to know that, either. Maryland Man didn't have a valid deportation order.

---

KaiBear said:

---

This


Only fools pretend millions of illegals are a benefit to American citizens or their traditional culture.

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

---

I agree with you on the Census. That is the strongest case you have made. It needs to be cleaned up, illegals can't count in apportionment.

---

Not counting them harms the districts where they reside -- less federal dollars

---

I did not think they were eligible for welfare? Were you lying?

---

Besides benefits which they are not eligible for, the census deterimens infratstructure constructions, education funds, veteran funds, etc

---

Not worth trying to explain how things work, this crowd sees what they want to see. Stormtroopers under Biden are Fascist. Stormtroopers under Trump are heroes.

Forcing Congress out of session and evacuating is their right. A guy videoing ICE and helping a lady up, deserved to be shot.

---

Ouch. Brutal but accurate.

---

except for the part about Biden's Stormtroopers going after law abiding American citizens for merely attending a demonstration, while Trump's Stormtroopers are going after criminal illegal aliens with valid deportation orders.

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

---

I agree with you on the Census. That is the strongest case you have made. It needs to be cleaned up, illegals can't count in apportionment.

---

Not counting them harms the districts where they reside -- less federal dollars

---

I did not think they were eligible for welfare? Were you lying?

---

Besides benefits which they are not eligible for, the census deterimens infratstructure constructions, education funds, veteran funds, etc

---

Not worth trying to explain how things work, this crowd sees what they want to see. Stormtroopers under Biden are Fascist. Stormtroopers under Trump are heroes.

Forcing Congress out of session and evacuating is their right. A guy videoing ICE and helping a lady up, deserved to be shot.

---

Ouch. Brutal but accurate.

---

except for the part about Biden's Stormtroopers going after law abiding American citizens for merely attending a demonstration, while Trump's Stormtroopers are going after criminal illegal aliens with valid deportation orders.

---

Breaking into the Capital and storming Congressional Chambers is law abiding, huh? Revisionist history...
Nope. An acquaintance of mine went to Trump's speech. Wanted to go to the Capitol. But they're old. Not great health. Were tired. Feet hurting. Decided en route to the Capitol that going would be a bridge too far for their bodies. So they Took a selfie with the Capitol off in the distance and ducked into a Metro station, returned to their hotel, left the next morning. Watching events on TV, they were relieved that they inadvertently made a good choice. a few week slater, FBI showed up at their office to interview them. Showed them a copy of that photo they took on their cell phone. How did they get it???

DOJ/FBI treated J6 like an insurrection.
Ok then. What's happening right now in MSP is textbook insurgency......

Well, they can attend and break in with guns and get pardoned... If they are on the right side. If not, shot.

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

---

I agree with you on the Census. That is the strongest case you have made. It needs to be cleaned up, illegals can't count in apportionment.

---

Not counting them harms the districts where they reside -- less federal dollars

---

I did not think they were eligible for welfare? Were you lying?

---

Besides benefits which they are not eligible for, the census deterimens infratstructure constructions, education funds, veteran funds, etc

---

Not worth trying to explain how things work, this crowd sees what they want to see. Stormtroopers under Biden are Fascist. Stormtroopers under Trump are heroes.

Forcing Congress out of session and evacuating is their right. A guy videoing ICE and helping a lady up, deserved to be shot.

---

Ouch. Brutal but accurate.

---

except for the part about Biden's Stormtroopers going after law abiding American citizens for merely attending a demonstration, while Trump's Stormtroopers are going after criminal illegal aliens with valid deportation orders.

---

Breaking into the Capital and storming Congressional Chambers is law abiding, huh? Revisionist history...
Nope. An acquaintance of mine went to Trump's speech. Wanted to go to the Capitol. But they're old. Not great health. Were tired. Feet hurting. Decided en route to the Capitol that going would be a bridge too far for their bodies. So they Took a selfie with the Capitol off in the distance and ducked into a Metro station, returned to their hotel, left the next morning. Watching events on TV, they were relieved that they inadvertently made a good choice. a few week slater, FBI showed up at their office to interview them. Showed them a copy of that photo they took on their cell phone. How did they get it???

DOJ/FBI treated J6 like an insurrection.
Ok then. What's happening right now in MSP is textbook insurgency......

Well, they can attend and break in with guns and get pardoned... If they are on the right side. If not, shot.

---

again, you cannot possibly believe the BS you are posting.

---

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Waco1947 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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Why is this urgent? (for GOP)
Why is this worth summoning mobs in defense? (for Democrats).

Census and apportionment. Illegal aliens are counted in a census. They are included in apportionment. What is that impact, one might ask? Pick a number of illegals in the country. I'll use 20m because it's the closest reasonable estimate in the middle which affords easy math. 20m divided by 750k (number of people in a US House district) = 26.67. So call it 26 seats That's the number of seats illegal aliens are worth. So where are those seats, one might ask? Easy. They are very disproportionately located in sanctuary states, which are all blue states. Democrats were offsetting their citizen population losses with illegal aliens. More importantly, deport all those illegals and blue states lose approx 20 House seats, and with them electoral votes.

The 2030 census is coming.
If you think that isn't a big factor at play, you are not thinking clearly. Dems are facing existentially bad demographics.

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I agree with you on the Census. That is the strongest case you have made. It needs to be cleaned up, illegals can't count in apportionment.

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Not counting them harms the districts where they reside -- less federal dollars

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I did not think they were eligible for welfare? Were you lying?

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Besides benefits which they are not eligible for, the census deterimens infratstructure constructions, education funds, veteran funds, etc

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Not worth trying to explain how things work, this crowd sees what they want to see. Stormtroopers under Biden are Fascist. Stormtroopers under Trump are heroes.

Forcing Congress out of session and evacuating is their right. A guy videoing ICE and helping a lady up, deserved to be shot.

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Ouch. Brutal but accurate.

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except for the part about Biden's Stormtroopers going after law abiding American citizens for merely attending a demonstration, while Trump's Stormtroopers are going after criminal illegal aliens with valid deportation orders.

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Breaking into the Capital and storming Congressional Chambers is law abiding, huh? Revisionist history...
Nope. An acquaintance of mine went to Trump's speech. Wanted to go to the Capitol. But they're old. Not great health. Were tired. Feet hurting. Decided en route to the Capitol that going would be a bridge too far for their bodies. So they Took a selfie with the Capitol off in the distance and ducked into a Metro station, returned to their hotel, left the next morning. Watching events on TV, they were relieved that they inadvertently made a good choice. a few week slater, FBI showed up at their office to interview them. Showed them a copy of that photo they took on their cell phone. How did they get it???

DOJ/FBI treated J6 like an insurrection.
Ok then. What's happening right now in MSP is textbook insurgency......

Well, they can attend and break in with guns and get pardoned... If they are on the right side. If not, shot.

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again, you cannot possibly believe the BS you are posting.

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I actually think the same thing of you. J6 were tried and convicted, yet you believe Breitbart propaganda. That is just one of the stretches you make. It really is unbelievable. I chalk it up to spin tactics. But i am starting to think you believe it

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New - Trump approval (Hispanic voters)

🟢 Approve 53% (+8)
🟤 Disapprove 45%

Last month - 🟤 Disapprove +20 (28% shift ⏩ 🟢)

Rasmussen #B - RV - 1/22 pic.twitter.com/TNl20F1saf

— Political Polls (@PpollingNumbers) January 27, 2026

Sam Lowry said:

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drahthaar said:

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J.R. said:

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Serious question. Not intended on a big fight over Trump. That POS ain't worth my time any longer.

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Biggest issue is Justice and the legal system integrity and adhering to the Constitution and law. I wonder when or if our lawyers will realize that they are the foremost security in preserving the nation.

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Trump realizes it and has planned his attacks accordingly.

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whiterock said:

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events in MSP have restored Trump's support in the Hispanic community, proving GOP moderates wrong again....

New - Trump approval (Hispanic voters)

🟢 Approve 53% (+8)
🟤 Disapprove 45%

Last month - 🟤 Disapprove +20 (28% shift ⏩ 🟢)

Rasmussen #B - RV - 1/22 pic.twitter.com/TNl20F1saf

— Political Polls (@PpollingNumbers) January 27, 2026

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