As long as universities charge students to attend their schools, they absolutely have a fiduciary duty to those students.

The overwhelming majority of students need a degree that means a good-paying job. A university pushing a degree that has no financial value is close to committing fraud by reliance.

Friend of mine says a lot of schools have liability that will hurt them badly once suing a school for a useless degree becomes a trend. I don't know about that, but believing your alma mater lied to you is a growing thing for a lot of people.

Sam Lowry said:

---

RightRevBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RightRevBear said:

---

Anthropology, Christianity and Arts, Archaeology, Classics, Civic Interfaith Studies. Art History, Asian Studies, American Studies, Classics, creative writing, dance, environmental humanities, ethnic studies, Greek, Greek and Roman Studies, informal education, Latin American Studies, Middle East Studies, Military Studies, Museum Studies, Music History and Literature, Philosophy, Rhetoric and Public Discourse, Slavic and Eastern European Studies, Women's and Gender Studies, World Affairs

I am not saying these are bad things to study, but for the most part they do not pay outside of academia.

---

I think your most efficient plan would just be to go and start a trade school.

---

I think your plan should be to cut caffeine so you can have better dialog with others. If you have a case against RightRev's suggestions, he left it open for discourse.

---

My case against RightRev's suggestions is that he doesn't actually want a university. I don't see a need to go through them one by one.

---

Huge leap from that list he gave. Put the Red Bull down.

---

It's a very not huge leap. Liberal arts are part of what we do, like it or not.

---

I have two liberal arts degrees. One is from Baylor. Unfortunately, what is the job market for humanities degrees. What is the career outlook for the students who get those degrees? It used to be if you got any degree you could get a good job. That is not the case anymore.

Most of these degrees have limited application outside of academia. What job is a person going to perform with a Christianity and Arts degree? People go to a university now to get training for a profession for the most part. What is this training them to do? They can go get a master's degree in something else maybe. They can become a professor, but the job market is ridiculous and universities still put out many more PhD's than job opportunities. How many qualified PhD grads have to go work in another field because the job market is flooded by unethical professors that tell them the market is competitive, not ridiculously overcrowded. They don't say this though because if they don't lure the students in they will lose their job. I have supervised in my job several of these PhD's, even though I just have a masters.

---

How universities should define themselves is a whole other issue. I don't believe they should exist merely to serve the market. Conservatives are always talking about winning the culture war and defending Western civilization. You can't do that just by churning out business degrees. If you don't study culture, philosophy, and politics, someone else will. To take your example, the relationship of Christianity with the arts is as relevant as can be. Christians are constantly complaining about their lack of influence in arts and entertainment, yet they've almost completely ceded the field.

---

Ceded the field of driven out?

Baylor is a prime example. If there was any school out there possible to built a conservative or at least conservative-ish liberal arts college it should have been Baylor

Yet from the History department at Baylor to each other component the school only seems to hire leftists.

Honesty I'm at a loss for why that is…discrimination? Competency? Something else?

But it's not because conservatives don't want to work in or teach the liberal arts

RightRevBear said:

---

Would you encourage a love one of yours to study that major knowing they will have a ton of student loans and limited job prospects.

---

As an actual major, no. I might have gotten a little carried away with that one. If my loved one is Christian and drawn to the arts, I'd rather have them study a fine art. But classics, anthropology, archaeology, creative writing, philosophy, music and art history, I certainly would. These are noble and necessary pursuits, in my mind.

Redbrickbear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RightRevBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RightRevBear said:

---

Anthropology, Christianity and Arts, Archaeology, Classics, Civic Interfaith Studies. Art History, Asian Studies, American Studies, Classics, creative writing, dance, environmental humanities, ethnic studies, Greek, Greek and Roman Studies, informal education, Latin American Studies, Middle East Studies, Military Studies, Museum Studies, Music History and Literature, Philosophy, Rhetoric and Public Discourse, Slavic and Eastern European Studies, Women's and Gender Studies, World Affairs

I am not saying these are bad things to study, but for the most part they do not pay outside of academia.

---

I think your most efficient plan would just be to go and start a trade school.

---

I think your plan should be to cut caffeine so you can have better dialog with others. If you have a case against RightRev's suggestions, he left it open for discourse.

---

My case against RightRev's suggestions is that he doesn't actually want a university. I don't see a need to go through them one by one.

---

Huge leap from that list he gave. Put the Red Bull down.

---

It's a very not huge leap. Liberal arts are part of what we do, like it or not.

---

I have two liberal arts degrees. One is from Baylor. Unfortunately, what is the job market for humanities degrees. What is the career outlook for the students who get those degrees? It used to be if you got any degree you could get a good job. That is not the case anymore.

Most of these degrees have limited application outside of academia. What job is a person going to perform with a Christianity and Arts degree? People go to a university now to get training for a profession for the most part. What is this training them to do? They can go get a master's degree in something else maybe. They can become a professor, but the job market is ridiculous and universities still put out many more PhD's than job opportunities. How many qualified PhD grads have to go work in another field because the job market is flooded by unethical professors that tell them the market is competitive, not ridiculously overcrowded. They don't say this though because if they don't lure the students in they will lose their job. I have supervised in my job several of these PhD's, even though I just have a masters.

---

How universities should define themselves is a whole other issue. I don't believe they should exist merely to serve the market. Conservatives are always talking about winning the culture war and defending Western civilization. You can't do that just by churning out business degrees. If you don't study culture, philosophy, and politics, someone else will. To take your example, the relationship of Christianity with the arts is as relevant as can be. Christians are constantly complaining about their lack of influence in arts and entertainment, yet they've almost completely ceded the field.

---

Ceded the field of driven out?

Baylor is a prime example. If there was any school out there possible to built a conservative or at least conservative-ish liberal arts college it should have been Baylor

Yet from the History department at Baylor to each other component the school only seems to hire leftists.

Honesty I'm at a loss for why that is…discrimination? Competency? Something else?

But it's not because conservatives don't want to work in or teach the liberal arts

---

I'm not sure I agree. What is your idea of leftist history, for example?

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RightRevBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RightRevBear said:

---

Anthropology, Christianity and Arts, Archaeology, Classics, Civic Interfaith Studies. Art History, Asian Studies, American Studies, Classics, creative writing, dance, environmental humanities, ethnic studies, Greek, Greek and Roman Studies, informal education, Latin American Studies, Middle East Studies, Military Studies, Museum Studies, Music History and Literature, Philosophy, Rhetoric and Public Discourse, Slavic and Eastern European Studies, Women's and Gender Studies, World Affairs

I am not saying these are bad things to study, but for the most part they do not pay outside of academia.

---

I think your most efficient plan would just be to go and start a trade school.

---

I think your plan should be to cut caffeine so you can have better dialog with others. If you have a case against RightRev's suggestions, he left it open for discourse.

---

My case against RightRev's suggestions is that he doesn't actually want a university. I don't see a need to go through them one by one.

---

Huge leap from that list he gave. Put the Red Bull down.

---

It's a very not huge leap. Liberal arts are part of what we do, like it or not.

---

I have two liberal arts degrees. One is from Baylor. Unfortunately, what is the job market for humanities degrees. What is the career outlook for the students who get those degrees? It used to be if you got any degree you could get a good job. That is not the case anymore.

Most of these degrees have limited application outside of academia. What job is a person going to perform with a Christianity and Arts degree? People go to a university now to get training for a profession for the most part. What is this training them to do? They can go get a master's degree in something else maybe. They can become a professor, but the job market is ridiculous and universities still put out many more PhD's than job opportunities. How many qualified PhD grads have to go work in another field because the job market is flooded by unethical professors that tell them the market is competitive, not ridiculously overcrowded. They don't say this though because if they don't lure the students in they will lose their job. I have supervised in my job several of these PhD's, even though I just have a masters.

---

How universities should define themselves is a whole other issue. I don't believe they should exist merely to serve the market. Conservatives are always talking about winning the culture war and defending Western civilization. You can't do that just by churning out business degrees. If you don't study culture, philosophy, and politics, someone else will. To take your example, the relationship of Christianity with the arts is as relevant as can be. Christians are constantly complaining about their lack of influence in arts and entertainment, yet they've almost completely ceded the field.

---

Ceded the field of driven out?

Baylor is a prime example. If there was any school out there possible to built a conservative or at least conservative-ish liberal arts college it should have been Baylor

Yet from the History department at Baylor to each other component the school only seems to hire leftists.

Honesty I'm at a loss for why that is…discrimination? Competency? Something else?

But it's not because conservatives don't want to work in or teach the liberal arts

---

I'm not sure I agree. What is your idea of leftist history, for example?

---

History professors vote about 95% left in the US. Insofar as this influences their scholarship -- and how could it not? -- how much of history do we need to revise? It's a big problem as history is meant to be a lesson for the future, but if it's very skewed, it's not a useful… pic.twitter.com/LwrwiBvhrM

— Emil Kirkegaard (@KirkegaardEmil) September 18, 2023

In 2014 the Boston Globe had an article about New England colleges having a 28:1 Liberal to Conservative professor ratio. The updated ratios suggest complete college capture with faculty growth, no Conservatives being hired, and non-tenured ones leaving or forced out. pic.twitter.com/qySFWnH9CU

— Frank DeScushin (@FrankDeScushin) January 1, 2023

Sam Lowry said:

---

RightRevBear said:

---

Would you encourage a love one of yours to study that major knowing they will have a ton of student loans and limited job prospects.

---

As an actual major, no. I might have gotten a little carried away with that one. If my loved one is Christian and drawn to the arts, I'd rather have them study a fine art. But classics, anthropology, archaeology, creative writing, philosophy, music and art history, I certainly would. These are noble and necessary pursuits, in my mind.

---

I agree they are noble pursuits. I pursued one of those in undergrad. I had to get a master's in something else because there isn't much you can do with most of those degrees with a bachelor's. There isn't much you can do with a PhD even because the field will have 300 to 400 qualified applicants for each open position. I worked with a lady that had a PhD from a respected university in anthropology. She did four post-docs and still couldn't get a tenure track position.

Redbrickbear said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

I hope anything related to DEI is the first thing that gets cut.

---

How much does Malcolm Foley make as "special advisor to the President on race"...now that name I think has been changed to "Special Advisor to the President for Campus Engagement"

aka Baylor's race commissar

I would assume that is 100K a year in savings right there if our leadership decided to stop paying for that kind of "service".

---

The interesting thing about Malcolm's shakedown scheme is this: The premise of his speaking engagements is that "greed"(purposely undefined) is the root of all racism.

And how do you atone for that greed? By purchasing Malcolm's book on the subject of race at $21.99.

If 'greed' were really the evil villain in this story, wouldn't the book be free?

Greed is root of all evil. Book authors rarely make much money off of their books, and the price is set by the publisher. I am not taking one side or the other on the argument over the necessity of his position because I don't know if he fills a regulatory required position or not. I am just saying I don't think this is a great argument.

And let's be honest, greed did fuel slavery and Jim Crow laws. It fuels people using cheap illegal immigrant labor.

RightRevBear said:

---

Greed is root of all evil. Book authors rarely make much money off of their books, and the price is set by the publisher. I am not taking one side or the other on the argument over the necessity of his position because I don't know if he fills a regulatory required position or not. I am just saying I don't think this is a great argument.

And let's be honest, greed did fuel slavery and Jim Crow laws. It fuels people using cheap illegal immigrant labor.

---

Greed has done more to free people than the Soviet Union, Hitler or the Chinese Communists ever did.
I just pointed out the irony of simultaneously bad mouthing it as the cause of evil while using it to shake down a university alumni group.

10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

I Timothy 6:10

RightRevBear said:

---

And let's be honest, greed did fuel slavery and Jim Crow laws. It fuels people using cheap illegal immigrant labor.

---

It's interesting points…unchecked greed is as but we have had 2,000 of Christian thinkers and writers who have already told us that.

Baylor is not breaking new ground supporting this kind of stuff (traditional Christian teaching on greed but now mixed in with a hyper focus on race)

And for what it's worth I don't think Financial greed (however we define the term) was that much involved in Jim Crow. It was more a movement that was motivated to restore/regain political control & reestablish "social stability"…stability of course through taking rights from others

But most people don't know that it was big business & capitalism that was against Jim Crow from the very beginning…because those laws put constraints on business, trade, and making money.

[ Plessy v. Ferguson (1896) was a landmark civil rights case…the East Louisiana Railroad did oppose the 1890 Louisiana's Separate Car Act because it was expensive, the case was specifically designed by the Committee of Citizens to challenge the constitutionality of legalized racial segregation under the Fourteenth Amendment.…The railroad company cooperated with the challenge because it objected to the financial cost of operating separate cars.]

[Opposition was most common among national corporations and transportation companies that found segregation expensive and operationally difficult]

[Large national chains often resisted local segregation customs to avoid alienating customers in Northern states. For example, in 1964, the CEO of Coca-Cola threatened to move the company out of Atlanta if the city's business elite did not support a dinner honoring Martin Luther King Jr.]

One quibble, please. Many translations say the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.

That's not to excuse greed of course, but recognizing that there are other roots of evil, including wrong anger (Caine), lust (Herod), gluttony, pride (Caiaphas) and so on.

Robert Wilson said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

I hope anything related to DEI is the first thing that gets cut.

---

It's probably nearer the last thing they would cut.

---

Athletics will be likely be on the reduction list. Goodbye Big12??

TexasScientist said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

I hope anything related to DEI is the first thing that gets cut.

---

It's probably nearer the last thing they would cut.

---

Athletics will be likely be on the reduction list. Goodbye Big12??

---

Hell, we don't even compete at the moment.

The University of North Texas is cutting or consolidating more than 70 academic programs, minors and certificates as it works to close a projected $45 million budget shortfall. 🔗 https://t.co/fHrFtmV3W1 pic.twitter.com/irCXzAgvFu

— KWTX News 10 (@kwtx) March 20, 2026