FLBear5630 said:

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We disagree on these items.

Why? Because it is needed. It is the single thing that Government can do to really impact people's lives. The system is not working and what is government for if not to fix what is not working. Was it needed in the 50"s, no. Is it needed today? Yeah. Go to an inner city ER or a rural Hospital and tell me it is a NYC Progressive thing that is made up.

Spending on day care will do more for the economy than many other programs and investments.

Have you even researched what you gasp "Oh my God" about?

Day Care is actually the easiest case for Government subsidies. Daycare in Texas is about 21% of the average salary of users.
child-care-investment-is-crucial-for-future-economic-growth-1.pdf
Who's paying now?: The explicit and implicit costs of the current early care and education system | Economic Policy Institute

Even subsidized health care can make an economic case, worst case let's say it is a push. You still have people covered when they get sick. But, it has to include preventive to make it work. Our current system doesn't do that across the board. Healthy people are productive people.

The impact of health on economic growth: A narrative literature review - ScienceDirect

So don't give me the Liberal crap, there are just as good of cases for economic growth for day care and health care being paid by Government than much of what we pay right now.

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Your entire rationale is that the government should provide to people, what they need the most? Am I getting that right? There is just no way.

BellCountyBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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J.R. said:

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I believe that the richest country in the world could provide a min. level of HCI. I have studied our HC fairly closely and man is it effed up. We are the only industrized country where HCI is subsidized by businesses or govt employers. Everyone should have to source their own HC instead of the man doing it.

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Call me a liberal idealist, but taking care of your weakest, oldest and most in need was at one time a noble goal. A strong Nation takes care of those that can't and reward the elderly after a lifetime of working for the Nation (and yes working is for the Nation), what we are pushing to punt that to others is not what I signed on for.

If by the "man" you mean employers, I agree. If by the "man" you mean Government, I disagree. That bottomline is that the Federal Govt is the only entity that can assure standardized Health Care system for all.

This is one I have changed on over the years, but I am seeing too many having their lives destroyed by HC costs and lack of treatment. If we can afford these CEO bonuses and a Trillion+ Defense budget we can afford to help our citizens.

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Then what do you think about EVERYONE paying an income tax to help fund this? What embitters financially successful people is our progressive tax system that punishes people for doing well. I don't mind helping helpless people...but what about lazy and clueless people?

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I would go there, I would also go as far as check a box on your income tax for a set amount of your income tax to go for health care. I am talking basic health care, preventive (I think in the long run that could save a lot of money) and prescriptions.

I am also for if able bodied you work. Bring back local CCCs. Have them clean parks, streets, etc... My Roman analogy included citizens having responsibilities not just take. Serve in the military to earn your benefits. If we do it, it needs to be a complete program not a credit card.

Porteroso said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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We disagree on these items.

Why? Because it is needed. It is the single thing that Government can do to really impact people's lives. The system is not working and what is government for if not to fix what is not working. Was it needed in the 50"s, no. Is it needed today? Yeah. Go to an inner city ER or a rural Hospital and tell me it is a NYC Progressive thing that is made up.

Spending on day care will do more for the economy than many other programs and investments.

Have you even researched what you gasp "Oh my God" about?

Day Care is actually the easiest case for Government subsidies. Daycare in Texas is about 21% of the average salary of users.
child-care-investment-is-crucial-for-future-economic-growth-1.pdf
Who's paying now?: The explicit and implicit costs of the current early care and education system | Economic Policy Institute

Even subsidized health care can make an economic case, worst case let's say it is a push. You still have people covered when they get sick. But, it has to include preventive to make it work. Our current system doesn't do that across the board. Healthy people are productive people.

The impact of health on economic growth: A narrative literature review - ScienceDirect

So don't give me the Liberal crap, there are just as good of cases for economic growth for day care and health care being paid by Government than much of what we pay right now.

---

Your entire rationale is that the government should provide to people, what they need the most? Am I getting that right? There is just no way.

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He's changing some wording from the original, which was along the lines of 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his need'.

I understand FLBear is also growing a beard and starting to write a book. Working title is 'Das Kaput'.

Porteroso said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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We disagree on these items.

Why? Because it is needed. It is the single thing that Government can do to really impact people's lives. The system is not working and what is government for if not to fix what is not working. Was it needed in the 50"s, no. Is it needed today? Yeah. Go to an inner city ER or a rural Hospital and tell me it is a NYC Progressive thing that is made up.

Spending on day care will do more for the economy than many other programs and investments.

Have you even researched what you gasp "Oh my God" about?

Day Care is actually the easiest case for Government subsidies. Daycare in Texas is about 21% of the average salary of users.
child-care-investment-is-crucial-for-future-economic-growth-1.pdf
Who's paying now?: The explicit and implicit costs of the current early care and education system | Economic Policy Institute

Even subsidized health care can make an economic case, worst case let's say it is a push. You still have people covered when they get sick. But, it has to include preventive to make it work. Our current system doesn't do that across the board. Healthy people are productive people.

The impact of health on economic growth: A narrative literature review - ScienceDirect

So don't give me the Liberal crap, there are just as good of cases for economic growth for day care and health care being paid by Government than much of what we pay right now.

---

Your entire rationale is that the government should provide to people, what they need the most? Am I getting that right? There is just no way.

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Sorry, done with philosophies and ideologies. Agree with Eisenhower, if Government can make the lives of its citizens better, it should. No, it has a responsibility to do it. Maybe less defense more domestic?

FLBear5630 said:

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Porteroso said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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We disagree on these items.

Why? Because it is needed. It is the single thing that Government can do to really impact people's lives. The system is not working and what is government for if not to fix what is not working. Was it needed in the 50"s, no. Is it needed today? Yeah. Go to an inner city ER or a rural Hospital and tell me it is a NYC Progressive thing that is made up.

Spending on day care will do more for the economy than many other programs and investments.

Have you even researched what you gasp "Oh my God" about?

Day Care is actually the easiest case for Government subsidies. Daycare in Texas is about 21% of the average salary of users.
child-care-investment-is-crucial-for-future-economic-growth-1.pdf
Who's paying now?: The explicit and implicit costs of the current early care and education system | Economic Policy Institute

Even subsidized health care can make an economic case, worst case let's say it is a push. You still have people covered when they get sick. But, it has to include preventive to make it work. Our current system doesn't do that across the board. Healthy people are productive people.

The impact of health on economic growth: A narrative literature review - ScienceDirect

So don't give me the Liberal crap, there are just as good of cases for economic growth for day care and health care being paid by Government than much of what we pay right now.

---

Your entire rationale is that the government should provide to people, what they need the most? Am I getting that right? There is just no way.

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Sorry, done with philosophies and ideologies. Agree with Eisenhower, if Government can make the lives of its citizens better, it should. No, it has a responsibility to do it. Maybe less defense more domestic?

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With only a very few exceptions, the government screws up everything it touches. Health care, as clearly evident, is not one of those exceptions.

The government cannot fix what it broke.

Ok what organization has positively impacted more lives than the US Government?

You keep believing philosophies and ideologies about hos much better it is for people to just deal with it. Iwill keep adding up the people that actually receive benefits.

One thing the Trump Administration has taught us is it is all about the benefits you receive and every benefit is a win. Words mean ***** Fund health care.

FLBear5630 said:

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Ok what organization has positively impacted more lives than the US Government?

You keep believing philosophies and ideologies about hos much better it is for people to just deal with it. Iwill keep adding up the people that actually receive benefits.

One thing the Trump Administration has taught us is it is all about the benefits you receive and every benefit is a win. Words mean ***** Fund health care.

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The most positive impact the US government has had for its bosses (citizens) over its lifespan has been to provide ample opportunity for as many people as possible in each generation. The dumping of slavery and the subsequent fight to control racial discrimination (it will never totally disappear) are a very real part of new birth of freedom.

A government that takes away individual responsibility for daily life is a recipe for dysfunctional people. When the government fails - and it will naturally- to do a job, it makes the failure far more spectacular than if it had stayed out of the way. Millions of people left to figure out how to take care of themselves and left angry with their government after that spectacular failure means real bloody rebellion or acceptance of governments with iron fists like present day China, Russia, the EU to a lesser extent, and last century's Nazi Germany and Soviet Union.

Serfdom - where governments control the people and how they are cared for - in any form is dangerous. Just see the above list. It squelches the ability of the individual to excel in many ways and becomes a defacto caste system. Utopia will never come from man made government control. History is full of this lesson.

The American system has provided people with the best upward mobility of any governmental system. It would be much better if the federal government got back to the basics of law enforcement, protective military, safety testing, and interstate commerce. It needs to remove itself from education control, healthcare system control, and social engineering.

Talk to me when you get near 65 and your work sponsored health care ends. Lets see if your view on Medicare changes.

93 to 98% of over 65 rely on Medicare. You are going to get out of it? It works, that means 93 to 98% have health care. That program works. But cancel it on principle.

FLBear5630 said:

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Talk to me when you get near 65 and your work sponsored health care ends. Lets see if your view on Medicare changes.

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What you brought up just now is exactly why government needs to get out of the healthcare business. Government is very good at breaking its promises and cannot be sued when they "legally" do so.
As it is, it will be less expensive for me when I get to Medicare as I don't get work sponsored health insurance in my field. However, if I had gotten that government sponsored health insurance it would presently be more expensive for me than my medical sharing plan. $1000 a month just for me with ridiculous deductibles and coinsurance is a no go.

An move away is a generational move at this point. 93 to 98% of over 65 rely on Medicare, that is everyone. We cannot just cut those people loose and just not fund it or throw it to the States. The Baylor board is not the average US citizen, i would venture the income on this Board is much higher than the norm. I am probably on the low end! Trump may not need Medicare. CEO types may scoff at it. But the VAST bulk of elderly nee it. Anyone 45 and older is locked into Medicare. A new system for the younger workforce? How do you pay for the existing AND create a new one?

If you do that, you have a fairness issue. You guys rail on government healthcare, 95% use medicare, we are there and have been for a while. How do we make it work better is a more productive discussion than get Gov out

EatMoreSalmon said:

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As it is, it will be less expensive for me when I get to Medicare as I don't get work sponsored health insurance in my field.

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Before you jump to that conclusion, you might want to price out a good Medigap (not Medicare Advantage, Medigap) policy. If you can afford that, make sure you enroll in that when you first become Medicare eligible when you can do so without medical underwriting. If you wait and try and get it later, you'll be subject to medical underwriting and can be rejected. Medigap is the supplemental insurance that makes Medicare work like it was once promised to, exempting you from copays and donut holes. I'm guessing that will run $500 a month.

Quote:

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if I had gotten that government sponsored health insurance it would presently be more expensive for me than my medical sharing plan. $1000 a month just for me with ridiculous deductibles and coinsurance is a no go.

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Obamacare is broken, was never designed to work, and isn't working. Thank John McCain for protecting it.

I don't care what it is. Something needs to be done. Right now, Obamacare is the only game in town for a lot of small businesses.

Keep putting our head in the ground and spouting how bad Government is does not fix the problem. There will be something, might as well be something that works. Cap Defense at Trillion and use the 500B for healthcare. DOD can make due with a T.

FLBear5630 said:

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Ok what organization has positively impacted more lives than the US Government?

You keep believing philosophies and ideologies about hos much better it is for people to just deal with it. Iwill keep adding up the people that actually receive benefits.

One thing the Trump Administration has taught us is it is all about the benefits you receive and every benefit is a win. Words mean ***** Fund health care.

---

Remind me again how you are even a Jeb! Republican?

The federal government spends almost 2 trillion dollars a year on health care - almost 30% of all federal outlays.

What do you propose it spend to positively impact more lives?

How am I a conservative? Do conservatives NOT address needs?

Health care is the biggest need we have in this country. So, if we address it you are not a conservative?

To be a conservative I have to turn my back on the needs?

I am a moderate, always have been and I am a registered IND for over 30 years. So, no I am not a "JEB Republican" no more than a MAGA Authoritarian.

So far your way has worked so well. 2T and we still have a huge number not being able to afford healthcare, you are doing well. How can we do better, let's pull all funding...

From a Constitutional standpoint, is would be promote the General Welfare. You can make an argument that Healthcare is part of the General Welfare quite easily. Actually, it should be included there.

As for the rich. No one is asking them to pay for anyone else, just the rate on your income. Plus you are a user. Not going to use MEDICARE? You one of the 2%? Right now, we only pay on the first 180k. Why should that be? Why should someone making 75k have to pay on 100% of their income, but you get a free ride over 180k? How about paying your fair share based on percentage? Anyone making over 180k can afford it easier than someone making 75k. This great Nation provided you the opportunity to be successful, why would you not want to contribute your share?

You appear to be conservative not because you believe in any ideals, but to protect your assets. So why shouldn't it be fair game?

Realitybites said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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As it is, it will be less expensive for me when I get to Medicare as I don't get work sponsored health insurance in my field.

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Before you jump to that conclusion, you might want to price out a good Medigap (not Medicare Advantage, Medigap) policy. If you can afford that, make sure you enroll in that when you first become Medicare eligible when you can do so without medical underwriting. If you wait and try and get it later, you'll be subject to medical underwriting and can be rejected. Medigap is the supplemental insurance that makes Medicare work like it was once promised to, exempting you from copays and donut holes. I'm guessing that will run $500 a month.

Quote:

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if I had gotten that government sponsored health insurance it would presently be more expensive for me than my medical sharing plan. $1000 a month just for me with ridiculous deductibles and coinsurance is a no go.

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Obamacare is broken, was never designed to work, and isn't working. Thank John McCain for protecting it.

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Already have that figured out unless something seriously changes by then. The medical sharing I'm presently on will convert to medigap. Advantage plans are only good for healthy or wealthy people. The cost of a major medical event is way too high on those.

FLBear5630 said:

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An move away is a generational move at this point. 93 to 98% of over 65 rely on Medicare, that is everyone. We cannot just cut those people loose and just not fund it or throw it to the States. The Baylor board is not the average US citizen, i would venture the income on this Board is much higher than the norm. I am probably on the low end! Trump may not need Medicare. CEO types may scoff at it. But the VAST bulk of elderly nee it. Anyone 45 and older is locked into Medicare. A new system for the younger workforce? How do you pay for the existing AND create a new one?

If you do that, you have a fairness issue. You guys rail on government healthcare, 95% use medicare, we are there and have been for a while. How do we make it work better is a more productive discussion than get Gov out

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Why post extremes? Of course it would take time to get the government out of healthcare. No one said anything about doing it cold turkey. The only way that happens is if the debt is allowed to crash the economy forcing draconian measures. Spending more now is a bad long term plan.

Extremes? On this Board? You think people on here wouldn't just cut it now?

You write to the audience. This is an extremist board! So, we start with the extremes.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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This is NOT what he ran on and told us. No new wars? Now all we can fund is wars?


Trump says it's 'not possible' for Washington to fund Medicaid, Medicare: 'We're fighting wars.' How to prepare as costs rise


Come on guys? Under Biden you went NUTS over just giving weapons to Ukraine. Now we can't fund health care for the elderly because we are fighting wars?

Crickets...

---

Good post, FLBear. No, none of us voted for this. He went from the Peace President in his first term to Worldwide Bully in his second term. In the process he has alienated most of our allies. America First has transformed into America Isolated.

I will give credit where credit is due. Yay closed borders and yay eggs!!! That's about it.

"We are the hottest country in the world! We have eleventy bazillion dollars promised in IOUs! Nobody has ever seen anything like it!" Blah........blah........blah...........

---

No, it's dishonest spin. Here's Trump's ACTUAL point:
"Trump framed programs like child care and health care as responsibilities that should shift away from the federal government."

He is not the first Republican to suggest that. Neither is such inconsistent with small government conservatism. If a state wants to run those programs, let them. If they don't…..let the population adjust.

Nothing would control entitlement spending (which is 75%of the federal budget) more than divesting the in entirety to the states. There would be constant competition to control, limit, etc…to prevent a mass movement of the poor & sick to states with overly generous entitlement programs.

whiterock said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

This is NOT what he ran on and told us. No new wars? Now all we can fund is wars?


Trump says it's 'not possible' for Washington to fund Medicaid, Medicare: 'We're fighting wars.' How to prepare as costs rise


Come on guys? Under Biden you went NUTS over just giving weapons to Ukraine. Now we can't fund health care for the elderly because we are fighting wars?

Crickets...

---

Good post, FLBear. No, none of us voted for this. He went from the Peace President in his first term to Worldwide Bully in his second term. In the process he has alienated most of our allies. America First has transformed into America Isolated.

I will give credit where credit is due. Yay closed borders and yay eggs!!! That's about it.

"We are the hottest country in the world! We have eleventy bazillion dollars promised in IOUs! Nobody has ever seen anything like it!" Blah........blah........blah...........

---

No, it's dishonest spin. Here's Trump's ACTUAL point:
"Trump framed programs like child care and health care as responsibilities that should shift away from the federal government."

He is not the first Republican to suggest that. Neither is such inconsistent with small government conservatism. If a state wants to run those programs, let them. If they don't…..let the population adjust.

Nothing would control entitlement spending (which is 75%of the federal budget) more than divesting the in entirety to the states. There would be constant competition to control, limit, etc…to prevent a mass movement of the poor & sick to states with overly generous entitlement programs.

---

Is the money from wages for Medicare going back to? Same with education, is the money going back to the States? 98% of retirees use Medicare gonna just leave them w/o healthcare like you guys dod on ACA? Blame it on the states, mot Trump right?

You have been too far away from normal people too long, many CEOs have that issue.

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

This is NOT what he ran on and told us. No new wars? Now all we can fund is wars?


Trump says it's 'not possible' for Washington to fund Medicaid, Medicare: 'We're fighting wars.' How to prepare as costs rise


Come on guys? Under Biden you went NUTS over just giving weapons to Ukraine. Now we can't fund health care for the elderly because we are fighting wars?

Crickets...

---

Good post, FLBear. No, none of us voted for this. He went from the Peace President in his first term to Worldwide Bully in his second term. In the process he has alienated most of our allies. America First has transformed into America Isolated.

I will give credit where credit is due. Yay closed borders and yay eggs!!! That's about it.

"We are the hottest country in the world! We have eleventy bazillion dollars promised in IOUs! Nobody has ever seen anything like it!" Blah........blah........blah...........

---

No, it's dishonest spin. Here's Trump's ACTUAL point:
"Trump framed programs like child care and health care as responsibilities that should shift away from the federal government."

He is not the first Republican to suggest that. Neither is such inconsistent with small government conservatism. If a state wants to run those programs, let them. If they don't…..let the population adjust.

Nothing would control entitlement spending (which is 75%of the federal budget) more than divesting the in entirety to the states. There would be constant competition to control, limit, etc…to prevent a mass movement of the poor & sick to states with overly generous entitlement programs.

---

Is the money from wages for Medicare going back to? Same with education, is the money going back to the States? 98% of retirees use Medicare gonna just leave them w/o healthcare like you guys dod on ACA? Blame it on the states, mot Trump right?

You have been too far away from normal people too long, many CEOs have that issue.

---

No, I've been quite close to state govt for a while. States have become little more than agents for the federal govt. in Tx the percentage of the state budget tied up with federal programs/obligations exceeds 75%.

So why not just hand it off all those programs to the states in total? Cut taxes and let the states raise the revenue for them?
(Not my idea. One which can be heard often in conservative circles).

It has to be a systematic process and the funds have to transfer. It cannot be a double dip. Also, there has to be some standards or people are migrating for treatment.

I have mo issue moving it, just dont want to see people not covered or it become another tax

whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

This is NOT what he ran on and told us. No new wars? Now all we can fund is wars?


Trump says it's 'not possible' for Washington to fund Medicaid, Medicare: 'We're fighting wars.' How to prepare as costs rise


Come on guys? Under Biden you went NUTS over just giving weapons to Ukraine. Now we can't fund health care for the elderly because we are fighting wars?

Crickets...

---

Good post, FLBear. No, none of us voted for this. He went from the Peace President in his first term to Worldwide Bully in his second term. In the process he has alienated most of our allies. America First has transformed into America Isolated.

I will give credit where credit is due. Yay closed borders and yay eggs!!! That's about it.

"We are the hottest country in the world! We have eleventy bazillion dollars promised in IOUs! Nobody has ever seen anything like it!" Blah........blah........blah...........

---

No, it's dishonest spin. Here's Trump's ACTUAL point:
"Trump framed programs like child care and health care as responsibilities that should shift away from the federal government."

He is not the first Republican to suggest that. Neither is such inconsistent with small government conservatism. If a state wants to run those programs, let them. If they don't…..let the population adjust.

Nothing would control entitlement spending (which is 75%of the federal budget) more than divesting the in entirety to the states. There would be constant competition to control, limit, etc…to prevent a mass movement of the poor & sick to states with overly generous entitlement programs.

---

Is the money from wages for Medicare going back to? Same with education, is the money going back to the States? 98% of retirees use Medicare gonna just leave them w/o healthcare like you guys dod on ACA? Blame it on the states, mot Trump right?

You have been too far away from normal people too long, many CEOs have that issue.

---

No, I've been quite close to state govt for a while. States have become little more than agents for the federal govt. in Tx the percentage of the state budget tied up with federal programs/obligations exceeds 75%.

So why not just hand it off all those programs to the states in total? Cut taxes and let the states raise the revenue for them?
(Not my idea. One which can be heard often in conservative circles).

---

I am not yet on Medicare. I am two years away. Am currently paying $1,250 per month for private medical insurance for my wife, son, and myself.

Our local Emergency Room in Guadalupe County, Texas just sent me a bill for my son's visit sixth months ago. They billed him $375 for ****ing Aspirin! How is this not every bit as heinous as the fraud going on in Minnesota or California? The system is broken beyond repair.

The best healthcare program hands down is to not get sick. PERIOD!

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

This is NOT what he ran on and told us. No new wars? Now all we can fund is wars?


Trump says it's 'not possible' for Washington to fund Medicaid, Medicare: 'We're fighting wars.' How to prepare as costs rise


Come on guys? Under Biden you went NUTS over just giving weapons to Ukraine. Now we can't fund health care for the elderly because we are fighting wars?

Crickets...

---

Good post, FLBear. No, none of us voted for this. He went from the Peace President in his first term to Worldwide Bully in his second term. In the process he has alienated most of our allies. America First has transformed into America Isolated.

I will give credit where credit is due. Yay closed borders and yay eggs!!! That's about it.

"We are the hottest country in the world! We have eleventy bazillion dollars promised in IOUs! Nobody has ever seen anything like it!" Blah........blah........blah...........

---

No, it's dishonest spin. Here's Trump's ACTUAL point:
"Trump framed programs like child care and health care as responsibilities that should shift away from the federal government."

He is not the first Republican to suggest that. Neither is such inconsistent with small government conservatism. If a state wants to run those programs, let them. If they don't…..let the population adjust.

Nothing would control entitlement spending (which is 75%of the federal budget) more than divesting the in entirety to the states. There would be constant competition to control, limit, etc…to prevent a mass movement of the poor & sick to states with overly generous entitlement programs.

---

Is the money from wages for Medicare going back to? Same with education, is the money going back to the States? 98% of retirees use Medicare gonna just leave them w/o healthcare like you guys dod on ACA? Blame it on the states, mot Trump right?

You have been too far away from normal people too long, many CEOs have that issue.

---

No, I've been quite close to state govt for a while. States have become little more than agents for the federal govt. in Tx the percentage of the state budget tied up with federal programs/obligations exceeds 75%.

So why not just hand it off all those programs to the states in total? Cut taxes and let the states raise the revenue for them?
(Not my idea. One which can be heard often in conservative circles).

---

I am not yet on Medicare. I am two years away. Am currently paying $1,250 per month for private medical insurance for my wife, son, and myself.

Our local Emergency Room in Guadalupe County, Texas just sent me a bill for my son's visit sixth months ago. They billed him $375 for ****ing Aspirin! How is this not every bit as heinous as the fraud going on in Minnesota or California? The system is broken beyond repair.

The best healthcare program hands down is to not get sick. PERIOD!

---

I will continue working because of the health insurance

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

This is NOT what he ran on and told us. No new wars? Now all we can fund is wars?


Trump says it's 'not possible' for Washington to fund Medicaid, Medicare: 'We're fighting wars.' How to prepare as costs rise


Come on guys? Under Biden you went NUTS over just giving weapons to Ukraine. Now we can't fund health care for the elderly because we are fighting wars?

Crickets...

---

Good post, FLBear. No, none of us voted for this. He went from the Peace President in his first term to Worldwide Bully in his second term. In the process he has alienated most of our allies. America First has transformed into America Isolated.

I will give credit where credit is due. Yay closed borders and yay eggs!!! That's about it.

"We are the hottest country in the world! We have eleventy bazillion dollars promised in IOUs! Nobody has ever seen anything like it!" Blah........blah........blah...........

---

No, it's dishonest spin. Here's Trump's ACTUAL point:
"Trump framed programs like child care and health care as responsibilities that should shift away from the federal government."

He is not the first Republican to suggest that. Neither is such inconsistent with small government conservatism. If a state wants to run those programs, let them. If they don't…..let the population adjust.

Nothing would control entitlement spending (which is 75%of the federal budget) more than divesting the in entirety to the states. There would be constant competition to control, limit, etc…to prevent a mass movement of the poor & sick to states with overly generous entitlement programs.

---

Is the money from wages for Medicare going back to? Same with education, is the money going back to the States? 98% of retirees use Medicare gonna just leave them w/o healthcare like you guys dod on ACA? Blame it on the states, mot Trump right?

You have been too far away from normal people too long, many CEOs have that issue.

---

No, I've been quite close to state govt for a while. States have become little more than agents for the federal govt. in Tx the percentage of the state budget tied up with federal programs/obligations exceeds 75%.

So why not just hand it off all those programs to the states in total? Cut taxes and let the states raise the revenue for them?
(Not my idea. One which can be heard often in conservative circles).

---

I am not yet on Medicare. I am two years away. Am currently paying $1,250 per month for private medical insurance for my wife, son, and myself.

Our local Emergency Room in Guadalupe County, Texas just sent me a bill for my son's visit sixth months ago. They billed him $375 for ****ing Aspirin! How is this not every bit as heinous as the fraud going on in Minnesota or California? The system is broken beyond repair.

The best healthcare program hands down is to not get sick. PERIOD!

---

Our ER got paid - PAID, mind you - 29k from me and my medical sharing plan for my little visit that turned out to be the best case scenario of simple vertigo. Yes, this is after PPO adjustments. Even accounting for some no pay visits happening daily in an ER, that is insane.
The visit entailed a couple of hours with a remote neurologist visit over video, an x-ray, and a CT scan, a generic antihistamine and an anti nausea med. Plus the obligatory IV. Doc and staff were good, but holy smokes!

That is based on the good deal they are getting now. So, is it a fee or a tax? What is the true cost of the benefit? Should everyone pay that? So a 50k person pays the same as a 500k person? Or, you should pay the same as Trump? Flat tax is not good anymore, everyone pays same rate?

So what is equitable same rate or same amount?

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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This is NOT what he ran on and told us. No new wars? Now all we can fund is wars?


Trump says it's 'not possible' for Washington to fund Medicaid, Medicare: 'We're fighting wars.' How to prepare as costs rise


Come on guys? Under Biden you went NUTS over just giving weapons to Ukraine. Now we can't fund health care for the elderly because we are fighting wars?

Crickets...

---

Good post, FLBear. No, none of us voted for this. He went from the Peace President in his first term to Worldwide Bully in his second term. In the process he has alienated most of our allies. America First has transformed into America Isolated.

I will give credit where credit is due. Yay closed borders and yay eggs!!! That's about it.

"We are the hottest country in the world! We have eleventy bazillion dollars promised in IOUs! Nobody has ever seen anything like it!" Blah........blah........blah...........

---

No, it's dishonest spin. Here's Trump's ACTUAL point:
"Trump framed programs like child care and health care as responsibilities that should shift away from the federal government."

He is not the first Republican to suggest that. Neither is such inconsistent with small government conservatism. If a state wants to run those programs, let them. If they don't…..let the population adjust.

Nothing would control entitlement spending (which is 75%of the federal budget) more than divesting the in entirety to the states. There would be constant competition to control, limit, etc…to prevent a mass movement of the poor & sick to states with overly generous entitlement programs.

---

Is the money from wages for Medicare going back to? Same with education, is the money going back to the States? 98% of retirees use Medicare gonna just leave them w/o healthcare like you guys dod on ACA? Blame it on the states, mot Trump right?

You have been too far away from normal people too long, many CEOs have that issue.

---

No, I've been quite close to state govt for a while. States have become little more than agents for the federal govt. in Tx the percentage of the state budget tied up with federal programs/obligations exceeds 75%.

So why not just hand it off all those programs to the states in total? Cut taxes and let the states raise the revenue for them?
(Not my idea. One which can be heard often in conservative circles).

---

I am not yet on Medicare. I am two years away. Am currently paying $1,250 per month for private medical insurance for my wife, son, and myself.

Our local Emergency Room in Guadalupe County, Texas just sent me a bill for my son's visit sixth months ago. They billed him $375 for ****ing Aspirin! How is this not every bit as heinous as the fraud going on in Minnesota or California? The system is broken beyond repair.

The best healthcare program hands down is to not get sick. PERIOD!

---

US HC (socialized medicine)sone of the best talking points that has stuck forever. Hell, my parents even still use the dumb term created by lobby for big pharmaceutical. I have a some context as someone who has been through the HC ringer. on US HC. I'm self employed and do not have access to an employer plan or govt plan. I had to get Care for about 2 yrs as I was denied repeatedly for a pre-existing condition (Melanoma). It was not great, but at least I had catastrophic. I then figured out how to do a work around which required setting up and LLC, putting my kids as employees and me as member and running 2 payrolls, then. I could get BCBS for me and son (1more yr) $2200 a month. I had to source Thai/global HC for Visa. Here is the difference in HC that I lived. Had a motorbike wreck and had to go to the ER clinic,, via ambulance, then to private hospital (top 50 hospital in the world) where I got an MRI and CT scan. Visit in ER from Orthopedic guy. #1 no way you could get an MRI and or CT that night. So, all that, meds, creams, amazing care....all for $1850 as I had to file the bill. Oh and my HC Insurance is $1200 per yr. They care I received was as good or better than anything I've had in the US.

FLBear5630 said:

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That is based on the good deal they are getting now. So, is it a fee or a tax? What is the true cost of the benefit? Should everyone pay that? So a 50k person pays the same as a 500k person? Or, you should pay the same as Trump? Flat tax is not good anymore, everyone pays same rate?

So what is equitable same rate or same amount?

---

Since there is no cap on Medicare tax on wages, I'm not sure what you're arguing. I'm simply making the point of why should someone pay 100's of times more than someone else for the same benefit? Even pension healthcare contributions are pegged to underwriting forecasts of future benefit costs. And people aren't charged more for employer sponsored healthcare just because they make more money than someone else.

If you're talking about social security, then it should be incredibly obvious why there is a wage cap.

FLBear5630 said:

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From a Constitutional standpoint, is would be promote the General Welfare. You can make an argument that Healthcare is part of the General Welfare quite easily. Actually, it should be included there.

As for the rich. No one is asking them to pay for anyone else, just the rate on your income. Plus you are a user. Not going to use MEDICARE? You one of the 2%? Right now, we only pay on the first 180k. Why should that be? Why should someone making 75k have to pay on 100% of their income, but you get a free ride over 180k? How about paying your fair share based on percentage? Anyone making over 180k can afford it easier than someone making 75k. This great Nation provided you the opportunity to be successful, why would you not want to contribute your share?

You appear to be conservative not because you believe in any ideals, but to protect your assets. So why shouldn't it be fair game?

---

You do realize it is definitely not included in general welfare? Health care existed in the late 1700s, and no founding father wanted it to be free. Is there any historical basis for your claim, or are you saying you'd now like to add it after centuries of almost nobody really advocating for it?

What does your first sentence mean? The rich won't pay for others' health care, just a higher income tax rate?

Is it a fee or a tax? If a fee there is a set price. If a tax, it is a rate against income.

Why should a 75k person have to pay on 100% of their income and you only pay on 20% of yours? The burden is shifted to the lowest income, the group that can least afford it. Of course you are against progressive taxation, you get a free ride on the bulk of your income.

You do realize that this no taxation thing is a recent phenomenon and most of our history had up to 90% tax rates.

But it works for you. So, I get it, you get to keep yours. What's not to like?

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

This is NOT what he ran on and told us. No new wars? Now all we can fund is wars?


Trump says it's 'not possible' for Washington to fund Medicaid, Medicare: 'We're fighting wars.' How to prepare as costs rise


Come on guys? Under Biden you went NUTS over just giving weapons to Ukraine. Now we can't fund health care for the elderly because we are fighting wars?

Crickets...

---

Good post, FLBear. No, none of us voted for this. He went from the Peace President in his first term to Worldwide Bully in his second term. In the process he has alienated most of our allies. America First has transformed into America Isolated.

I will give credit where credit is due. Yay closed borders and yay eggs!!! That's about it.

"We are the hottest country in the world! We have eleventy bazillion dollars promised in IOUs! Nobody has ever seen anything like it!" Blah........blah........blah...........

---

No, it's dishonest spin. Here's Trump's ACTUAL point:
"Trump framed programs like child care and health care as responsibilities that should shift away from the federal government."

He is not the first Republican to suggest that. Neither is such inconsistent with small government conservatism. If a state wants to run those programs, let them. If they don't…..let the population adjust.

Nothing would control entitlement spending (which is 75%of the federal budget) more than divesting the in entirety to the states. There would be constant competition to control, limit, etc…to prevent a mass movement of the poor & sick to states with overly generous entitlement programs.

---

Is the money from wages for Medicare going back to? Same with education, is the money going back to the States? 98% of retirees use Medicare gonna just leave them w/o healthcare like you guys dod on ACA? Blame it on the states, mot Trump right?

You have been too far away from normal people too long, many CEOs have that issue.

---

No, I've been quite close to state govt for a while. States have become little more than agents for the federal govt. in Tx the percentage of the state budget tied up with federal programs/obligations exceeds 75%.

So why not just hand it off all those programs to the states in total? Cut taxes and let the states raise the revenue for them?
(Not my idea. One which can be heard often in conservative circles).

---

I am not yet on Medicare. I am two years away. Am currently paying $1,250 per month for private medical insurance for my wife, son, and myself.

Our local Emergency Room in Guadalupe County, Texas just sent me a bill for my son's visit sixth months ago. They billed him $375 for ****ing Aspirin! How is this not every bit as heinous as the fraud going on in Minnesota or California? The system is broken beyond repair.

The best healthcare program hands down is to not get sick. PERIOD!

---

yep. It is abundantly clear the Federal Govt cannot fix it. In no small part, it is because it is entirely legal for the Federal government to run a deficit. Nearly all state governments cannot, per their own constitutions/statutes.

It'll never happen, of course, unless GOP has the WH and supermajorities in both Houses, which is an outside the standard deviation kind of scenario.

Trump needs to throw out more than theye statements. How is going to do that? As you said, States can't run deficits.

So, it should not be on employers. It shouldn't be Fed. It shouldn't be State. My wifes leg surgery cost 52k, we are still getting bills 2 years later. The average person is supposed to pay for that out of pocket.

That is half of a nurses annual salary, so Porteseo doesnt have to pay Medicare over 188k a year? Lets cut capital gains too. If we just applied the same rates to 400k it would bridge the gap. You guys keep talking of this more efficient private system, where? Who has it? Every Nation with high quality or living, health care and life expectancy is some form of single payer Federal system.

But, it is better the cashier at the grocery store, pay 15k to have kids tonsils removed. And she cant fall behind on daycare either, which takes up 21% of her income. Call in sick for her kid more than twice and she is bounced. But Porteso pay 1.45% on income over 188k is heresy??? You guys really push a great system, if you are a have. Very Calvinistic.

I know, none are connected. All are separate. Sorry, there are certain things the Fed needs to deal with that may not have been an issue in 1775. Maybe a more holistic approach is needed. More important than protecting the 1.45% of income of you high performers making above 188k.

FLBear5630 said:

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Trump needs to throw out more than theye statements. How is going to do that? As you said, States can't run deficits.

So, it should not be on employers. It shouldn't be Fed. It shouldn't be State. My wifes leg surgery cost 52k, we are still getting bills 2 years later. The average person is supposed to pay for that out of pocket.

That is half of a nurses annual salary, so Porteseo doesnt have to pay Medicare over 188k a year? Lets cut capital gains too. If we just applied the same rates to 400k it would bridge the gap. You guys keep talking of this more efficient private system, where? Who has it? Every Nation with high quality or living, health care and life expectancy is some form of single payer Federal system.

But, it is better the cashier at the grocery store, pay 15k to have kids tonsils removed. And she cant fall behind on daycare either, which takes up 21% of her income. Call in sick for her kid more than twice and she is bounced. But Porteso pay 1.45% on income over 188k is heresy??? You guys really push a great system, if you are a have. Very Calvinistic.

I know, none are connected. All are separate. Sorry, there are certain things the Fed needs to deal with that may not have been an issue in 1775. Maybe a more holistic approach is needed. More important than protecting the 1.45% of income of you high performers making above 188k.

---

Dude. You've already run out of other peoples' money.
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2025/

the top 10% of wage earners (which includes almost everyone here) pay 72% of all income taxes paid. Poor people do not pay a significant share capital gains taxes, either.

We have to grow the pie.