EatMoreSalmon said:
cowboycwr said:
EatMoreSalmon said:
cowboycwr said:
EatMoreSalmon said:
cowboycwr said:
EatMoreSalmon said:
cowboycwr said:
EatMoreSalmon said:
cowboycwr said:
EatMoreSalmon said:
cowboycwr said:
So today the results of the state scores for schools were released. This is a combination of STAAR test results, College and Career Readiness classes and a few other factors. Some schools obviously are excited but many others not so much.
Not surprisingly many of the schools that have been "taken over" by the state due to continued failing grades have not seen much improvement even for the ones that have been under state control for several years.
In addition to those scores the questions from last Spring's STAAR test have been released. I have had several friends sending me those questions and there are some incredibly dumb ones as well as extremely hard ones.
For example:
From the 8th grade US History test (US History through 1877)
This list describes an American painter.
Asher Durand
- popular engraver and landscape painter
- helped create a distinct American style of painting
-best-known work, Kindred Spirits, depicts the Catskill Mountains
Which American cultural movement was Asher Durand a member of?
a. Hudson River School
b. Federal architecture
c. Second Great Awakening
d. African American folk art
I mean c'mon that is what the test makers/state thought was one of the most important things to have on the test? Not something about the Civil War, Revolution, etc. Something about American painters? And yet the state wants to get upset at schools that produce low scores. Yes there were questions on the Civil War, Revolution, etc. but replace this silly question with one more. This random guy is mentioned on the test but the founding fathers are not. Not a single question about them. In fact no questions on the major people of that entire period of history. Just some that are about them like a letter they wrote and students having to answer what they were talking about, how it led to the first amendment, etc.
I have a feeling many on here would struggle to answer that question.
There is another about the Lowell Mill Strike.
Again not a major milestone in history for what is supposed to be an introductory course into the basics of the history of the early US.
And this is just one test. If I included things my friends have sent me from English, Science and Math or high school US History it gets even more ridiculous.
This is what our tax payer dollars pay to produce. A test that doesn't really test their knowledge of the subject, touches on random things and leaves out many major and important events/people.
While there are plenty of reasons to go after the state tests, including the Hudson River School on an 8th grade test for US history is not one of them. There is probably one chapter on arts in the US in the curriculum for the year. It should include the first major visual art movement that started here and spread elsewhere.
This is not an example of DEI. This is an example of a rounded view of the US, not to mention something good about the country. I will say, however, that the question should be mostly answered correctly as eliminating the obvious wrong answers due to the artist's description doesn't leave much else to choose from.
No where did I mention DEI.
What I did mention that this was on the test but nothing about the founding fathers.
That is wrong.
An introductory level history class, which 8th grade is since they have never learned about any of US History should focus more on the other stuff.
Yes the answer seems easy to you. But to an 8th grader that doesn't know what the others are, doesn't know who he is since he isn't learned about, or sees a choice with the word art in it and that he is a painter at the top will easily get confused
Daniels brought up DEI.
8th grade US history should absolutely contain a bit of the arts history. It would be crazy not to. It is a massive part of US contribution (good and bad) to the world. Like I said, I'm sure there was at least one chapter on arts history, or some small part of every other chapter on it. The lions share would of course be the parts you would like.
And if an 8th grader did not get any of the question's other info in their class, that's just sad. I'm sure the one or two chapters on colonial America would have covered the Great Awakening briefly as much of colonial writing hits on it.
On looking at the test, I found these founders mentioned in questions:
Alexander Hamilton
Thomas Jefferson 2
George Washington
George Mason
John Adams 2
Abigail Adams
This is out of only 40 questions obviously covering up to about 1880s. There were a lot more on the civil war period than any other.
Art history is a minor part of history. Especially in a basic history class. Which this is.
Art could all be destroyed and lost today and you know what…. Humans would be fine.
This type of thing, the great awakening, and second great awakening are covered but are not covered in depth. They are not the purpose of the course. The course is to introduce students, who have had no American History before, into the big picture, basics. So to ask very detailed miniature questions (this specific example or others) is wrong.
But you and others want to argue about this one question instead of the point I was making about the WHOLE test being bad for ALL subjects. I included one example. But instead of discussing the overall topic everyone wants to jump on the one irrelevant example.
Those names are mentioned. But the questions are not about them and their contributions. But again you want to argue semantics and be "well they have this letter written by Abigail Adam's in one of the questions.
The point is the test for ALL subjects is crap.
But feel free to keep arguing about this one example. I am done. It has no place on this test. Period.
"This letter written by Abigail Adams" has been in US history books for like, since Abigail Adams wrote it. It is an overview test that has other things to argue about than whether it should include the Hudson River School. That argument won't stand up to scrutiny.
Part of the reason we are in the cultural decline we see is our inattention to what art and entertainment - a key part of culture that no civilization has been without - is that we have let small groups of activist people control the arts in the US since cinema began. Perhaps you should pay more attention to such things.
BTW, should cave paintings, pottery, and jewelry be removed from archeology as those are unimportant to history?
You still miss the point. You want to argue about one question instead of the overall test in all subject areas.
It does hold up to scrutiny. What doesn't hold up is your argument. Provide one fact.
Yes that letter has been in history books for a long time. Just not basic intro history courses.
Same for the art school.
Our cultural decline has zero to do with people knowing/not knowing art.
Zero.
That is a deflection.
As to your last deflection question it is just that a deflection. Because studying those can provide insights to how people lived before written language. But that is about it.
But it is a deflection that has zero to do with this and only serves to move further away from the main point of the STAAR test being bad in any subject
I'm not missing your point. Your point is misguided. Look at the test again and find something else to complain about. You have been given facts, and you didn't like it.
You haven't provided one fact.
You haven't argued anything other than this one question.
Tell me how any of the STAAR tests are any good. How they have improved education.
They have done nothing but waste money.
How is a test that once used an author's writing and the author got the questions over their writing wrong because the author said none of the answers listed were right about their own work is good.
How is a test that the passing rate changes every year any good?
The tests are stupid and a waste of money.
If you want to argue how stupid the STAAR test is, use something that is stupid about it. Don't use something that either shows a failure in your own education or that you didn't take history seriously.
I'm not a fan of the STARR, but I won't show my ass in trying to discredit it.
Example of a real argument against the test:
A test made up of 38 multiple choice questions and two short answer questions is a poor sample of a child's knowledge of a subject as broad as US history from pre-colonial to late 1800s
I did show a failure of the test.
You want to argue one question that has NOTHING to do with a basic history course. And again you look only at one test when I have been talking about all of them from 3rd grade through high school.
That is not a failure of my education or that I didn't take history seriously. I guarantee I know more about history than you have even dreamed of knowing. I have the degrees to back that up.
The only one making an ass of themselves is you trying to defend your precious test.
Have a nice day.
Yup. As expected. You have not been able to back up a single assertion so you slink away.
A basic history course should focus on the big picture items. Not random individuals.
Like for the American revolution the leaders of that war from both sides. Not a random person killed at the Boston massacre because they check a certain race box.
Just like a basic biology course/ test should cover the basics. Like the basics of biological life, dna, hereditary traits, genetics, etc. Not an in depth study of say genetic engineering.
That is the point I have made from the first post that you have missed.
That the founding fathers, presidents, major events, declaration, constitution, etc. should be the focus. Which can include movements like the great awakening, second, Hudson River school, etc. but does not need to dive into the random people that were involved in those three as that is for a college level course. Not one where kids are being first introduced to the subject and don't know the difference between a state, country, continent or able to read a map, or understand most things in that course as it is the first time they have ever heard of it or studied it.
