Was the purported Roman Census that brought Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem invented history?

No

No

TexasScientist said:

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Was the purported Roman Census that brought Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem invented history?

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let me cast this article before you.

It is certainly not "empirical" evidence. Perhaps it shouldn't be empirical evidence you seek though.

https://crossexamined.org/really-census-time-caesar-augustus/

The trouble with the Romans is that they don't have a word for census.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Was the purported Roman Census that brought Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem invented history?

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let me cast this article before you.

It is certainly not "empirical" evidence. Perhaps it shouldn't be empirical evidence you seek though.

https://crossexamined.org/really-census-time-caesar-augustus/

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From the article: a Roman census was taken in Egypt, and therefore perhaps also throughout the empire regularly, every fourteen years...

The next paragraph then tries to make it look like Luke just referenced the wrong one of two census'. Unfortunately, if you do the math he does--it doesn't add up to 14 years--so it isn't a matter of referencing the wrong one.

The counter argument:
https://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/census.htm

Nonsense.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Was the purported Roman Census that brought Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem invented history?

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let me cast this article before you.

It is certainly not "empirical" evidence. Perhaps it shouldn't be empirical evidence you seek though.

https://crossexamined.org/really-census-time-caesar-augustus/

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Seems to me they are grasping at straws in this explanation.

I'm trying to imagine the incredible social and economic chaos that would result if the government issued an edict for everybody to return by foot to their ancestral home (whatever that means) to be counted in a census. Surely the Romans weren't that stupid.

El Oso said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

---

Was the purported Roman Census that brought Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem invented history?

---

let me cast this article before you.

It is certainly not "empirical" evidence. Perhaps it shouldn't be empirical evidence you seek though.

https://crossexamined.org/really-census-time-caesar-augustus/

---

From the article: a Roman census was taken in Egypt, and therefore perhaps also throughout the empire regularly, every fourteen years...

The next paragraph then tries to make it look like Luke just referenced the wrong one of two census'. Unfortunately, if you do the math he does--it doesn't add up to 14 years--so it isn't a matter of referencing the wrong one.

The counter argument:
https://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/census.htm

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Not to mention the uprooting and mass transit of people across the empire to get them to their ancestral homes for one day, it surely would have been reocorded somewhere.

"In the days of Hadrian and his successors down through the Severans (ad i 17-235) Roman emperors pursued a grand strategy based on preclusive security - the establishment of a linear barrier of perimeter defence around the Empire. The legions were stationed in great fortresses… https://t.co/PLgvw6uBml pic.twitter.com/4mg2BGi2Kv

— LiorLefineder (@lefineder) December 15, 2025

TexasScientist said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Was the purported Roman Census that brought Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem invented history?

---

let me cast this article before you.

It is certainly not "empirical" evidence. Perhaps it shouldn't be empirical evidence you seek though.

https://crossexamined.org/really-census-time-caesar-augustus/

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Seems to me they are grasping at straws in this explanation.

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Seems to me you are constantly grasping at straws to justify your atheistic beliefs.

Johnny Bear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Was the purported Roman Census that brought Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem invented history?

---

let me cast this article before you.

It is certainly not "empirical" evidence. Perhaps it shouldn't be empirical evidence you seek though.

https://crossexamined.org/really-census-time-caesar-augustus/

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Seems to me they are grasping at straws in this explanation.

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Seems to me you are constantly grasping at straws to justify your atheistic beliefs.

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The question is not whether there were ever Roman censuses, but rather was there one during the times of Jesus's conflicting birth naratives, much less was there ever one that required the residents of the Roman Empire to travel and register at the locality of their ancestral homes (1,000 years prior)? Of course the answer is there was none - nada nunca. The story clearly is a literary device to serve theoligical purposes.

TexasScientist said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Was the purported Roman Census that brought Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem invented history?

---

let me cast this article before you.

It is certainly not "empirical" evidence. Perhaps it shouldn't be empirical evidence you seek though.

https://crossexamined.org/really-census-time-caesar-augustus/

---

Seems to me they are grasping at straws in this explanation.

---

Seems to me you are constantly grasping at straws to justify your atheistic beliefs.

---

The question is not whether there were ever Roman censuses, but rather was there one during the times of Jesus's conflicting birth naratives, much less was there ever one that required the residents of the Roman Empire to travel and register at the locality of their ancestral homes (1,000 years prior)? Of course the answer is there was none - nada nunca.

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Luke was a smart guy and would have understood that. So would his audience. There's no reason to infer such a mass uprooting from the text. More likely Joseph simply owned property in Bethlehem. Nor do we even know that the registration mentioned in the gospel was a census. There were other types of registration, e.g. loyalty oaths, that were required of Roman subjects from time to time.

Johnny Bear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

---

Was the purported Roman Census that brought Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem invented history?

---

let me cast this article before you.

It is certainly not "empirical" evidence. Perhaps it shouldn't be empirical evidence you seek though.

https://crossexamined.org/really-census-time-caesar-augustus/

---

Seems to me they are grasping at straws in this explanation.

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Seems to me you are constantly grasping at straws to justify your atheistic beliefs.

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The dude things the Earth is flat and birds are not real, so give him a break.

The stupidest thing is people acting like Joseph and Mary were illegal immigrants - morons do not realize Palestine and Egypt bother were Roman provinces.

TexasScientist said:

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Was the purported Roman Census that brought Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem invented history?

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read through all of Wes Huff's comments

Today’s #manuscirptmonday includes a number of manuscripts from Luke and Matthew that span from the 2nd to the 5th centuries. Including copies of Josephus from the Middle Ages into the modern era. Today’s post looks at some of the questions surrounding the historical validity and… pic.twitter.com/IUVg0DdnbZ

— Wes Huff (@WesleyLHuff) December 23, 2024

The only surviving mystery religion of the Roman Empire https://t.co/63wPtB9Ckk pic.twitter.com/EkQSVMZwQh

— Edward Badgette (@acrimonyand) December 25, 2024

Tfw you think you’re eating enough protein but you learn that you’re falling short of a Roman legionnaire’s intake https://t.co/07xwnVYH1W

— Lee (Greater) (@shortmagsmle) January 12, 2026

Imagine roman engineers at the time discussing this in latin, proceeding to just use it without even leaving any written document. pic.twitter.com/I1UxDLtST2

— VIKARE (@vikare06) January 20, 2026

Last stand of the retired veterans at the Temple of Claudius
- Boudica's sack of Camulodunum AD 60 pic.twitter.com/JJoPHF507s

— Herald of Rome (@HeraldOfRome) January 22, 2026

1st-century coverage of Germany and of Germans.

"violent rain and wind came up that separated them still further, while the ground, that had become slippery around the roots and logs, made walking very treacherous for them, and the tops of the trees kept breaking off and falling… https://t.co/cpX5INuub0

— LiorLefineder (@lefineder) January 23, 2026

Location of every city founded by the Roman Empire, outside of Italy. pic.twitter.com/BTdKO5wnCB

— Vintage Maps (@vintagemapstore) January 28, 2026