I'm starting to believe it's inevitable.
Especially after hearing some of the opinions on this site.

This country is too uneducated and too envious of the wealthy for it to not happen. Combine that with a growing culture of extreme distaste for white males and America's past. And importing people from socialist countries and full fledged support for taking individuality out of the picture and replacing it with groups, tribalism and Marxism. I see it happening when we have our next major depression.

Despite all the soaring rhetoric by proponents of Socialism, when you boil it all down, it is nothing more than a system of rationing of existing wealth until it is exhausted. Then the system collapses. Rinse and repeat in the next country dopey enough not to learn from history.

Even such "benefits" as free this or that will soon become severely rationed to the point that one's life soon revolves around waiting. You will do a lot of standing in lines. You will wait for health care and when you finally get it, it will be strictly rationed. You will wait for food and when you finally get it, it will be strictly rationed. You will wait in line for clothing and when you get it, it will be strictly rationed. It has to be, there will never be enough because we will start to kill free enterprise.

This is what America becomes and I truly think some of the Democrats on this site will enjoy it despite it being completely miserable.

Now who is ready to sign up for a white guilt march to apologize for your privilege and embrace socialism?

I hope and pray you are wrong. The most disconcerting thing to me are the polls that indicate something like 40% plus of today's youth actually want a socialist America. This is what you get after over a half century of the education system being dominated by leftists. The biggest mistake the right made and continues to make was/is the surrender of the public education system to the left and it is dangerously possible we will all in the long run end up paying for it in the ways you describe in your post (look at today's Venezuela as an example).

Again, I hope and pray you are wrong, but I fully understand the concern - it is valid.

This is among my biggest fears. As long as there is breath in my lungs I will not become a "subject".

Tuesday will be telling as to where we are as a nation.

Doc Holliday said:

---

I'm starting to believe it's inevitable.
Especially after hearing some of the opinions on this site.

This country is too uneducated and too envious of the wealthy for it to not happen. Combine that with a growing culture of extreme distaste for white males and America's past. And importing people from socialist countries and full fledged support for taking individuality out of the picture and replacing it with groups, tribalism and Marxism. I see it happening when we have our next major depression.

Despite all the soaring rhetoric by proponents of Socialism, when you boil it all down, it is nothing more than a system of rationing of existing wealth until it is exhausted. Then the system collapses. Rinse and repeat in the next country dopey enough not to learn from history.

Even such "benefits" as free this or that will soon become severely rationed to the point that one's life soon revolves around waiting. You will do a lot of standing in lines. You will wait for health care and when you finally get it, it will be strictly rationed. You will wait for food and when you finally get it, it will be strictly rationed. You will wait in line for clothing and when you get it, it will be strictly rationed. It has to be, there will never be enough because we will start to kill free enterprise.

This is what America becomes and I truly think some of the Democrats on this site will enjoy it despite it being completely miserable.

Now who is ready to sign up for a white guilt march to apologize for your privilege and embrace socialism?

---

Given the direction of the country, the "white guilt march" won't require a volunteering sign up.

Johnny Bear said:

---

I hope and pray you are wrong. The most disconcerting thing to me are the polls that indicate something like 40% plus of today's youth actually want a socialist America. This is what you get after over a half century of the education system being dominated by leftists. The biggest mistake the right made and continues to make was/is the surrender of the public education system to the left and it is dangerously possible we will all in the long run end up paying for it in the ways you describe in your post (look at today's Venezuela as an example).

Again, I hope and pray you are wrong, but I fully understand the concern - it is valid.

---

I think it's something that will escalate.

They say try 'Democratic socialism'. Once it's implemented it creates problems that call for even more socialism.

It's a death spiral.

It will probably start with universal healthcare.

The principle of it will be worshipped as they overlook the negative results. Just like they did with the ACA: designed to fail and turn into single payer. The rhetoric of "everyone's covered!" while no one can actually afford it.

My question is will some lefties getting screwed finally wake up and realize that they played a hand in this? I don't think they will. Rather they will remedy it by pushing for more state controlled "problem solvers".

Doc,....where/how do you get your health care/Insurance?

J.R. said:

---

Doc,....where/how do you get your health care/Insurance?

---

Employer.

Plus I'm extremely healthy.

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Doc,....where/how do you get your health care/Insurance?

---

Employer.

Plus I'm extremely healthy.

---

Ok, glad your healthy. We are the only country in the industrialized world who relies on Business and Govt (govt employees/teachers ect) for subsidize health care. Therefore you/we have absolutely no clue how much healthcare really costs. It's not a $20 co pay. I advocate that everyone should have to source their own healthcare on the free market. Just like car insurance, that is the only way to drive costs down and quality up. I'm self insured and have a $15K deductible and pay $2K per month and, pay everything out of pocket, pretty much. This is a complex problem and no one seems to want to get really serious about it. I think the ACA was the correct first step, but was woefully short. Trumps wanted to dismantle with no replacement plan and that is a big, big problem. Look at the Insurance Companies earnings.. There is one of your big culprits.

J.R. said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Doc,....where/how do you get your health care/Insurance?

---

Employer.

Plus I'm extremely healthy.

---

Ok, glad your healthy. We are the only country in the industrialized world who relies on Business and Govt (govt employees/teachers ect) for subsidize health care. Therefore you/we have absolutely no clue how much healthcare really costs. It's not a $20 co pay. I advocate that everyone should have to source their own healthcare on the free market. Just like car insurance, that is the only way to drive costs down and quality up. I'm self insured and have a $15K deductible and pay $2K per month and, pay everything out of pocket, pretty much. This is a complex problem and no one seems to want to get really serious about it. I think the ACA was the correct first step, but was woefully short. Trumps wanted to dismantle with no replacement plan and that is a big, big problem. Look at the Insurance Companies earnings.. There is one of your big culprits.

---

Watch:

Ok, Doc...let's here your plan to fix healthcare, cuz it's freaking broke.

Who seriously thinks this is going to happen?

Jinx 2 said:

---

Who seriously thinks this is going to happen?

---

You vote for people that want it to happen.

Socialism sucks, we won't adopt it. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something.

quash said:

---

Socialism sucks, we won't adopt it. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something.

---

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/socialism-was-once-americas-political-taboo-now-democratic-socialism-is-a-viable-platform-heres-what-to-know/ar-BBOQTtw?li=BBnb7Kz

University Chicago survey of 18-to-34-year-olds, from this May, found that 61% of millennial Democrats "express favorable views toward Socialism." One Gallup poll from a few months later reported that more Democrats hold "positive views" of socialism than of capitalism, at 57% versus 47%.

J.R. said:

---

Ok, Doc...let's here your plan to fix healthcare, cuz it's freaking broke.

---

By first-party purchase the person paying is the person using.

Doc .....it is of course.... inevitable.

The breakup of the American family, reduced participation in Church, materialistic demands without the skills or work ethic needed to acquire them.

Seriously think about the bio's of most leftists.

Divorce is common , little real believe in God, daily reliance on various pills,..loneliness, frustration and despair.

They know what they want and they know they can't acquire it on their own.

So....they want the government to give it to them.

And they will.....anything to stay in office .

Till the money runs out and it all comes shattering down.

J.R. said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Doc,....where/how do you get your health care/Insurance?

---

Employer.

Plus I'm extremely healthy.

---

Ok, glad your healthy. We are the only country in the industrialized world who relies on Business and Govt (govt employees/teachers ect) for subsidize health care. Therefore you/we have absolutely no clue how much healthcare really costs. It's not a $20 co pay. I advocate that everyone should have to source their own healthcare on the free market. Just like car insurance, that is the only way to drive costs down and quality up. I'm self insured and have a $15K deductible and pay $2K per month and, pay everything out of pocket, pretty much. This is a complex problem and no one seems to want to get really serious about it. I think the ACA was the correct first step, but was woefully short. Trumps wanted to dismantle with no replacement plan and that is a big, big problem. Look at the Insurance Companies earnings.. There is one of your big culprits.

---

Insurance is not the issue.

Cost is.

No way it costs $100 bucks (or less) for an xray at a vet's office or dentist office with no insurance and yet the same, as in exact same machine, costs $2,000 or more plus needs a specialist to run, read the x ray, etc.

How are dentists, vets, dental hygienists, vet techs, etc able to operate and read xray machines and the results but a nurse/doctor cannot?????

And this is just one example. there are many more where it is clear that there is a scam going on with costs inflated.

J.R. said:

---

Ok, Doc...let's here your plan to fix healthcare, cuz it's freaking broke.

---

Hear.

Jinx 2 said:

---

Who seriously thinks this is going to happen?

---

Bernie

Oscorio-Cortez

Beto

Etc

cowboycwr said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Who seriously thinks this is going to happen?

---

Bernie

Oscorio-Cortez

Beto

Etc

---

and 100% every single person that will replace the old as hell Democrats in congress and Senate.

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Socialism sucks, we won't adopt it. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something.

---

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/socialism-was-once-americas-political-taboo-now-democratic-socialism-is-a-viable-platform-heres-what-to-know/ar-BBOQTtw?li=BBnb7Kz

---

Note the irony of the capitalist entrepreneur offering to fulfill a need by selling them water for $1/bottle.

If by Radical Left Socialist State you mean like Canada, the United Kingdom, Germany, France.....

yeah I'm down with moving that direction..... your fear of it is real funny.


we are already close to being there.... we have public education, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, SNAP....

JusHappy2BeHere said:

---

If by Radical Left Socialist State you mean like Canada, the United Kingdom, Germany, France.....

yeah I'm down with moving that direction..... your fear of it is real funny.


we are already close to being there.... we have public education, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, SNAP....

---

Oh ****, somebody stepped into the gray...

Re_education.org

Progressive.learning.org

I hate for profit prisons. But, I think this could set me up pretty well and keep me in the good graces of our new leaders.

JusHappy2BeHere said:

---

If by Radical Left Socialist State you mean like Canada, the United Kingdom, Germany, France.....

yeah I'm down with moving that direction..... your fear of it is real funny.


we are already close to being there.... we have public education, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, SNAP....

---

Norway, the holy grail of socialism that your ilk likes:

I ordered a beer in Norway and it cost $28 ****ing dollars dude.
Food is taxed 25%.
$25 dollars for a ten minute one way taxi ride.

Scandinavians have less things to buy on a personal scale, but share many public amenities.

Your house in Texas would cost well over double there...but they're non existent for the most part.
A Honda civic costs over 50k.
Those countries are not utopias. And you shouldn't give your opinion on them if you've never been there.

You think those countries are better than the U.S.?

How did the U.S. become the worlds superpower in only 250 years on capitalism and not socialism?

Doc Holliday said:

---

JusHappy2BeHere said:

---

If by Radical Left Socialist State you mean like Canada, the United Kingdom, Germany, France.....

yeah I'm down with moving that direction..... your fear of it is real funny.


we are already close to being there.... we have public education, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, SNAP....

---

Norway, the holy grail of socialism that your ilk likes:

I ordered a beer in Norway and it cost $28 ****ing dollars dude.
Food is taxed 25%.
$25 dollars for a ten minute one way taxi ride.

Scandinavians have less things to buy on a personal scale, but share many public amenities.

Your house in Texas would cost well over double there...but they're non existent for the most part.
A Honda civic costs over 50k.
Those countries are not utopias. And you shouldn't give your opinion on them if you've never been there.

You think those countries are better than the U.S.?

How did the U.S. become the worlds superpower in only 250 years on capitalism and not socialism?

---

Agreed

Was on Oslo last July.

Incredibly expensive ....taxes outrageously high.

Most importantly.....what standard of living they do have...
is tied almost exclusively to North Sea Oil.

Prior to the oil development Norway was one of the poorest countries in Western Europe.

And when the oil runs out........

Canada2017 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

JusHappy2BeHere said:

---

If by Radical Left Socialist State you mean like Canada, the United Kingdom, Germany, France.....

yeah I'm down with moving that direction..... your fear of it is real funny.


we are already close to being there.... we have public education, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, SNAP....

---

Norway, the holy grail of socialism that your ilk likes:

I ordered a beer in Norway and it cost $28 ****ing dollars dude.
Food is taxed 25%.
$25 dollars for a ten minute one way taxi ride.

Scandinavians have less things to buy on a personal scale, but share many public amenities.

Your house in Texas would cost well over double there...but they're non existent for the most part.
A Honda civic costs over 50k.
Those countries are not utopias. And you shouldn't give your opinion on them if you've never been there.

You think those countries are better than the U.S.?

How did the U.S. become the worlds superpower in only 250 years on capitalism and not socialism?

---

Agreed

Was on Oslo last July.

Incredibly expensive ....taxes outrageously high.

Most importantly.....what standard of living they do have...
is tied almost exclusively to North Sea Oil.

Prior to the oil development Norway was one of the poorest countries in Western Europe.

And when the oil runs out........

---

Yes, without oil, they are screwed.

The advocates for it fail to realize that the increase in taxes and government nanny state actually effects human behavior.

If we had that kind of socialism in the U.S...I would just quit my job and be a government leach. Why should I even work if I don't even get to keep half my money?

Doc Holliday said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

JusHappy2BeHere said:

---

If by Radical Left Socialist State you mean like Canada, the United Kingdom, Germany, France.....

yeah I'm down with moving that direction..... your fear of it is real funny.


we are already close to being there.... we have public education, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, SNAP....

---

Norway, the holy grail of socialism that your ilk likes:

I ordered a beer in Norway and it cost $28 ****ing dollars dude.
Food is taxed 25%.
$25 dollars for a ten minute one way taxi ride.

Scandinavians have less things to buy on a personal scale, but share many public amenities.

Your house in Texas would cost well over double there...but they're non existent for the most part.
A Honda civic costs over 50k.
Those countries are not utopias. And you shouldn't give your opinion on them if you've never been there.

You think those countries are better than the U.S.?

How did the U.S. become the worlds superpower in only 250 years on capitalism and not socialism?

---

Agreed

Was on Oslo last July.

Incredibly expensive ....taxes outrageously high.

Most importantly.....what standard of living they do have...
is tied almost exclusively to North Sea Oil.

Prior to the oil development Norway was one of the poorest countries in Western Europe.

And when the oil runs out........

---

Yes, without oil, they are screwed.

The advocates for it fail to realize that the increase in taxes and government nanny state actually effects human behavior.

If we had that kind of socialism in the U.S...I would just quit my job and be a government leach. Why should I even work if I don't even get to keep half my money?

---

My friend....before Reagan.....was paying over 60% income tax on every dollar over 70 thousand

quash said:

---

Socialism sucks, we won't adopt it. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something.

---

Trump wants people in the U.S. to treat him the same way North Koreans treat Kim Jung Un.

Doc, CB and others who believe Trump can do no wrong, would you oppose a facist dictatorship if Trump were in charge of it? How fast would you send me to a re-education camp?

Jinx 2 said:

---

quash said:

---

Socialism sucks, we won't adopt it. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something.

---

Trump wants people in the U.S. to treat him the same way North Koreans treat Kim Jung Un.

Doc, CB and others who believe Trump can do no wrong, would you oppose a facist dictatorship if Trump were in charge of it? How fast would you send me to a re-education camp?

---

Trump said he was being sarcastic and it's actually pretty funny if you consider Jim Acosta being a whiny little brat and trying to talk over him 24/7.

If Trump had a fascist dictatorship...you wouldn't be allowed to oppose it.

I personally think you need to get educated on economics and human behavior.

Canada2017 said:

---

Seriously think about the bio's of most leftists.

Divorce is common , little real believe in God, daily reliance on various pills,..loneliness, frustration and despair.

---

I know this will get you some AMEN likes for these talking points, but the "left" doesn't have a monopoly on these things and the data says that Christians divorce as much if not more than atheists and Antdepressant use in the U.S. soars by 65% in 15 years. Now some of the latter may have to do with access and Big Pharm influence over prescribing physicians, but the point remains to attribute all the ills to one side is short sided. Go to Church and people watch, how many are obese (treat your body like God's temple), and how many make a point to be seen getting out of their Audi rather than use those resources (and the time at work to acquire these things) for God's work? Many of those people are not strictly "leftists", we all have a part in this.

When I used to be a premium member on this site, in the "Bear Cave" a year or so ago I posted a "Is UBI inevitable" thread. I know I am the resident kooky futurist here, but to not note the rate of progression of AI (evolved more in the last 5 years than the prior 20, more in the last 50 years that the prior 500, etc) and its upcoming role in making a jobs based economy obsolete is short sighted. Heck, in my practice in last 10 years we have replaced 2 full times jobs into one 15 hr a week part time job via scheduling, billing, and patient noting automation software. It is only getting better and more efficient. Yes new jobs will be created, but think of the person of most average intelligence, half the world is dumber than them, remedial jobs will be going away. Even specialized jobs are affected, recently AI outperformed human radiologists in detecting metastatic breast cancer!

So that said, while my wife and I both have post grad degrees and do "well" (would be great if not for student loans) and are registered Republicans, I do not fear "socialism". 1, because there is nothing I can do about it, 2 fear mongering doesn't motivate me, and 3 because as a spiritual person I am called to trust God and not "hate" others for thinking differently than me. I think this era of focusing on how much we work to allow us to consume goods at high rates shows it is not making us "happy". Rather, focusing on relationships is where our focus should be for "happiness" (see any group of psych studies). While I like what I do and think I am pretty good at it, I would rather be spending my day with my loved ones and taking up hobbies to better myself and my community versus hording resources for my personal benefit. I think eventual UBI/socialism will allow that where AI produces the goods for us to exist vs. taking from one to give to another. That will require a massive paradigm shift in what is important to us as a nation that won't go over well on the front end.

JMHO.

Prairie_Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Seriously think about the bio's of most leftists.

Divorce is common , little real believe in God, daily reliance on various pills,..loneliness, frustration and despair.

---

I know this will get you some AMEN likes for these talking points, but the "left" doesn't have a monopoly on these things and the data says that Christians divorce as much if not more than atheists and Antdepressant use in the U.S. soars by 65% in 15 years. Now some of the latter may have to do with access and Big Pharm influence over prescribing physicians, but the point remains to attribute all the ills to one side is short sided. Go to Church and people watch, how many are obese (treat your body like God's temple), and how many make a point to be seen getting out of their Audi rather than use those resources (and the time at work to acquire these things) for God's work? Many of those people are not strictly "leftists", we all have a part in this.

When I used to be a premium member on this site, in the "Bear Cave" a year or so ago I posted a "Is UBI inevitable" thread. I know I am the resident kooky futurist here, but to not note the rate of progression of AI (evolved more in the last 5 years than the prior 20, more in the last 50 years that the prior 500, etc) and its upcoming role in making a jobs based economy obsolete is short sighted. Heck, in my practice in last 10 years we have replaced 2 full times jobs into one 15 hr a week part time job via scheduling, billing, and patient noting automation software. It is only getting better and more efficient. Yes new jobs will be created, but think of the person of most average intelligence, half the world is dumber than them, remedial jobs will be going away. Even specialized jobs are affected, recently AI outperformed human radiologists in detecting metastatic breast cancer!

So that said, while my wife and I both have post grad degrees and do "well" (would be great if not for student loans) and are registered Republicans, I do not fear "socialism". 1, because there is nothing I can do about it, 2 fear mongering doesn't motivate me, and 3 because as a spiritual person I am called to trust God and not "hate" others for thinking differently than me. I think this era of focusing on how much we work to allow us to consume goods at high rates shows it is not making us "happy". Rather, focusing on relationships is where our focus should be for "happiness" (see any group of psych studies). While I like what I do and think I am pretty good at it, I would rather be spending my day with my loved ones and taking up hobbies to better myself and my community versus hording resources for my personal benefit. I think eventual UBI/socialism will allow that where AI produces the goods for us to exist vs. taking from one to give to another. That will require a massive paradigm shift in what is important to us as a nation that won't go over well on the front end.

JMHO.

---

Thank you for sharing your opinions.

With the exception of a total sociopath I knew in college ...I don't hate anyone. Least of all for expressing opions different than mine.

Yes obesity is a huge problem, yes there is divorce among Christians ( though our priest tells us it is a lower rate ) and I don't 'fear' what's happening in the United States because...

A. There is no way to stop it now
B. Have enough assets with which to insulate my family.
C. Odds are I'll be dead within 20 years anyway.


Peace be with you.

Canada2017 said:

---

Doc .....it is of course.... inevitable.

The breakup of the American family, reduced participation in Church, materialistic demands without the skills or work ethic needed to acquire them.

Seriously think about the bio's of most leftists.

Divorce is common , little real believe in God, daily reliance on various pills,..loneliness, frustration and despair.

They know what they want and they know they can't acquire it on their own.

So....they want the government to give it to them.

And they will.....anything to stay in office .

Till the money runs out and it all comes shattering down.

---

bread and circuses...

Doc Holliday said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

JusHappy2BeHere said:

---

If by Radical Left Socialist State you mean like Canada, the United Kingdom, Germany, France.....

yeah I'm down with moving that direction..... your fear of it is real funny.


we are already close to being there.... we have public education, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, SNAP....

---

Norway, the holy grail of socialism that your ilk likes:

I ordered a beer in Norway and it cost $28 ****ing dollars dude.
Food is taxed 25%.
$25 dollars for a ten minute one way taxi ride.

Scandinavians have less things to buy on a personal scale, but share many public amenities.

Your house in Texas would cost well over double there...but they're non existent for the most part.
A Honda civic costs over 50k.
Those countries are not utopias. And you shouldn't give your opinion on them if you've never been there.

You think those countries are better than the U.S.?

How did the U.S. become the worlds superpower in only 250 years on capitalism and not socialism?

---

Agreed

Was on Oslo last July.

Incredibly expensive ....taxes outrageously high.

Most importantly.....what standard of living they do have...
is tied almost exclusively to North Sea Oil.

Prior to the oil development Norway was one of the poorest countries in Western Europe.

And when the oil runs out........

---

Yes, without oil, they are screwed.

The advocates for it fail to realize that the increase in taxes and government nanny state actually effects human behavior.

If we had that kind of socialism in the U.S...I would just quit my job and be a government leach. Why should I even work if I don't even get to keep half my money?

---

Norway is not screwed when oil runs out. They are the largest producer of hydropower in the world.