J.R. said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

Much of this whole "tax returns" junk is about playing on general mass ignorance about tax law and even about what a tax return is actually all about. A tax return is a report that declares income (as the government defines income) and then shows declared deductions, credits, etc. to ultimately arrive at whatever the taxpayers "taxable income" is and if that ends up being a positive number, then the applicable tax rate is applied to arrive at the taxpayer's bottom line liability. If it's a negative number, then you have a loss - for income tax purposes - for which there are either carry-back or carry-forward options, etc. And reporting NOLs on tax returns happens frequently for high end, entrepreneurial tax payers and for corporations and doesn't necessarily indicate total failure or certain bankruptcy, etc. Also, for accounting purposes, the books for the entrepreneur or corporation might be quite different and it's all completely legal as we're talking about two different things here (again, something that's widely misunderstood due largely to the complexity and nature of our income tax laws).

As far as whether or not tax cheating or anything illegal is going on - that's what IRS audits are for and I'm sure somebody like Trump has been audited frequently if not continuously throughout most of his business career. If he's cheating, I have confidence the IRS will find it and there has been nothing to date that I'm aware of to indicate that has been or is the case.

And of course, as others have indicated, tax returns tell you exactly zero about the taxpayer's total assets and/or net worth, etc., which are much greater "success indicators".

So, bottom line, this is all just another attempt at making the POTUS look bad, or look like a failure, or appear dishonest while playing on people's ignorance.

---

What it does show is that for that period of time, he was failure. Not how he portrays himself, hence he's a fraud and a liar. But, we knew about the lying part. Additionally, tell me where you he recieved $52M in interest income in one year? The bigger question is...where is the money coming from? That is why he is doing everything possible not to turn over those returns as the related schedules just might land him in jail.

---

20 years of Amazon tax returns showed huge losses. What a failure that company was!

Oops!

Now they are putting lots of traditional retailers out of business. Just like Trump put Clinton out of business.

Strange that someone who brags about his business acumen and claims to work in real estate, somehow does not grasp the concepts of holding companies, tax mitigation, and limited liability.

JR: "he is doing everything possible not to turn over those returns as the related schedules just might land him in jail."

So years of audits by the IRS turn up no violations of law, but a committee of malicious partisans should be expected to come up with an objective judgment based on better knowledge of tax law?

Seriously, you need to open some windows, the airplane glue is affecting your thinking.

I think it's hilarious that all these career politicians and career journalists who have never run a business or tried to start a business or had to fail and get back up and succeed are demonizing Trump for doing just that.

Here is a great article about 25 of the Richest Americans and how they overcome major failures to succeed.

https://www.inc.com/drew-hendricks/how-the-top-25-richest-americans-failed-before-during-or-after-they-made-million.html

midgett said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

Much of this whole "tax returns" junk is about playing on general mass ignorance about tax law and even about what a tax return is actually all about. A tax return is a report that declares income (as the government defines income) and then shows declared deductions, credits, etc. to ultimately arrive at whatever the taxpayers "taxable income" is and if that ends up being a positive number, then the applicable tax rate is applied to arrive at the taxpayer's bottom line liability. If it's a negative number, then you have a loss - for income tax purposes - for which there are either carry-back or carry-forward options, etc. And reporting NOLs on tax returns happens frequently for high end, entrepreneurial tax payers and for corporations and doesn't necessarily indicate total failure or certain bankruptcy, etc. Also, for accounting purposes, the books for the entrepreneur or corporation might be quite different and it's all completely legal as we're talking about two different things here (again, something that's widely misunderstood due largely to the complexity and nature of our income tax laws).

As far as whether or not tax cheating or anything illegal is going on - that's what IRS audits are for and I'm sure somebody like Trump has been audited frequently if not continuously throughout most of his business career. If he's cheating, I have confidence the IRS will find it and there has been nothing to date that I'm aware of to indicate that has been or is the case.

And of course, as others have indicated, tax returns tell you exactly zero about the taxpayer's total assets and/or net worth, etc., which are much greater "success indicators".

So, bottom line, this is all just another attempt at making the POTUS look bad, or look like a failure, or appear dishonest while playing on people's ignorance.

---

What it does show is that for that period of time, he was failure. Not how he portrays himself, hence he's a fraud and a liar. But, we knew about the lying part. Additionally, tell me where you he recieved $52M in interest income in one year? The bigger question is...where is the money coming from? That is why he is doing everything possible not to turn over those returns as the related schedules just might land him in jail.

---

20 years of Amazon tax returns showed huge losses. What a failure that company was!

Oops!

Now they are putting lots of traditional retailers out of business. Just like Trump put Clinton out of business.

---

I sure wish I would have bought AMZN a couple of decades back when it was trading around $15 per share. I liked their business model, but the fact that they had never made money in a single quarter made me decide not to. Oh well!

Can't make this stuff up...

BaylorBJM said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

midgett said:

---

Never have understood the debate on Obama's birth or Trump's net worth. They are already president. It ain't gonna change anything. Trump is wealthy. The amount, I don't know.

I recall in his first bankruptcy he negotiated a monthly allowance of like $300k. I was mad. If he's bankrupt, why give him $300k PER MONTH for living expenses?

Trump knew something his bankers hadn't learned. If the bank loans you $10,000, they own you. If they loan you most of their net capital you own the bank. They depend on you paying them back.

---

Good stuff!

You've read about him!

Last paragraph shows he's got a handle on our debt

I've looked at that debt and we've got a lotta good debt if you're a real estate man imo

Owing Fed is extremely negotiable!

Most all others can be easily settled or negotiated down by a great negotiator and we've got one at the helm. China doesn't have jack on us with what we owe em. He could eliminate their debt in tariff negotiations and that could be what he's setting up

---

He has grown our debt. How is that good? He promised to reduce it. Some people actually believed him. Lol

---

I've looked at our national debt and have no fears about it as long as we have great negotiator in White House that's lived a life managing debt in order to grow

---

Well, that settles it then! Mike looked at our books and our $22 trillion debt is no longer of concern.

Sure, every reputable economist in the western world (both on the left and right side of the isle) universally agree it's one of, if not, the biggest crisis this country -and world- face, and sure our current president has said countless times it's a national emergency but don't worry...Mike's got this one!

---

I deal in good and bad debt 24-7 for decades

How about you?

I'll take my knowledge, and certainly Trump's knowledge and negotiating skills, in this area over yours any day

Thanks for passing through, now keep walking please

riflebear said:

---

Can't make this stuff up...

---

Thanks again Rifle

I posted the highlighted portion earlier in this thread

Perhaps HuMcK and BJM and their lacking ilk should shut up and listen to us more often?

Naaaahhhhh

midgett said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

Much of this whole "tax returns" junk is about playing on general mass ignorance about tax law and even about what a tax return is actually all about. A tax return is a report that declares income (as the government defines income) and then shows declared deductions, credits, etc. to ultimately arrive at whatever the taxpayers "taxable income" is and if that ends up being a positive number, then the applicable tax rate is applied to arrive at the taxpayer's bottom line liability. If it's a negative number, then you have a loss - for income tax purposes - for which there are either carry-back or carry-forward options, etc. And reporting NOLs on tax returns happens frequently for high end, entrepreneurial tax payers and for corporations and doesn't necessarily indicate total failure or certain bankruptcy, etc. Also, for accounting purposes, the books for the entrepreneur or corporation might be quite different and it's all completely legal as we're talking about two different things here (again, something that's widely misunderstood due largely to the complexity and nature of our income tax laws).

As far as whether or not tax cheating or anything illegal is going on - that's what IRS audits are for and I'm sure somebody like Trump has been audited frequently if not continuously throughout most of his business career. If he's cheating, I have confidence the IRS will find it and there has been nothing to date that I'm aware of to indicate that has been or is the case.

And of course, as others have indicated, tax returns tell you exactly zero about the taxpayer's total assets and/or net worth, etc., which are much greater "success indicators".

So, bottom line, this is all just another attempt at making the POTUS look bad, or look like a failure, or appear dishonest while playing on people's ignorance.

---

What it does show is that for that period of time, he was failure. Not how he portrays himself, hence he's a fraud and a liar. But, we knew about the lying part. Additionally, tell me where you he recieved $52M in interest income in one year? The bigger question is...where is the money coming from? That is why he is doing everything possible not to turn over those returns as the related schedules just might land him in jail.

---

20 years of Amazon tax returns showed huge losses. What a failure that company was!

Oops!

Now they are putting lots of traditional retailers out of business. Just like Trump put Clinton out of business.

---

we are not talking about Amazon. They are a public company and everyone can see their quarterly earning report. Therein is the big, big, difference. Amazon is transparent. Trumps is just the opposite, cuz isn't what he says he is. Are you that dumb?

Oldbear83 said:

---

Strange that someone who brags about his business acumen and claims to work in real estate, somehow does not grasp the concepts of holding companies, tax mitigation, and limited liability.

---

Never bragged. Said that is one of my businesses and I prolly understand it fairly well. What I said was, you are a failure if you lose that kind of money ten years running, particularly when your daddy gave you $441M. Just how in the **** does that happen? Tell me smart guy,
Tell me what you do and your relative expertise. You are really showing your ass. Who in the hell who runs their own companies with any success doesn't understand that low level crap you throw out. You must do better Don't be a dick. I'm waiting.

Florda_mike said:

---

BaylorBJM said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

midgett said:

---

Never have understood the debate on Obama's birth or Trump's net worth. They are already president. It ain't gonna change anything. Trump is wealthy. The amount, I don't know.

I recall in his first bankruptcy he negotiated a monthly allowance of like $300k. I was mad. If he's bankrupt, why give him $300k PER MONTH for living expenses?

Trump knew something his bankers hadn't learned. If the bank loans you $10,000, they own you. If they loan you most of their net capital you own the bank. They depend on you paying them back.

---

Good stuff!

You've read about him!

Last paragraph shows he's got a handle on our debt

I've looked at that debt and we've got a lotta good debt if you're a real estate man imo

Owing Fed is extremely negotiable!

Most all others can be easily settled or negotiated down by a great negotiator and we've got one at the helm. China doesn't have jack on us with what we owe em. He could eliminate their debt in tariff negotiations and that could be what he's setting up

---

He has grown our debt. How is that good? He promised to reduce it. Some people actually believed him. Lol

---

I've looked at our national debt and have no fears about it as long as we have great negotiator in White House that's lived a life managing debt in order to grow

---

Well, that settles it then! Mike looked at our books and our $22 trillion debt is no longer of concern.

Sure, every reputable economist in the western world (both on the left and right side of the isle) universally agree it's one of, if not, the biggest crisis this country -and world- face, and sure our current president has said countless times it's a national emergency but don't worry...Mike's got this one!

---

I deal in good and bad debt 24-7 for decades

How about you?

I'll take my knowledge, and certainly Trump's knowledge and negotiating skills, in this area over yours any day

Thanks for passing through, now keep walking please

---

good and bad debt...oh ok. We don't want to hear about your wife.

J.R. said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Strange that someone who brags about his business acumen and claims to work in real estate, somehow does not grasp the concepts of holding companies, tax mitigation, and limited liability.

---

Never bragged. Said that is one of my businesses and I prolly understand it fairly well. Tell me what you do and your relative expertise. Don't be a dick. I'm waiting.

---

MBA and 35 years management with four companies, most recently oil & gas.

I know real estate mostly through risk analysis, since many of my clients have a lot of their wealth tied to property, which is important if I have to file liens.

And yeah, you were bragging. Don't be mad just bc I called you out for it. It's one thing to oppose Trump for his policies, but it's amusing to me how your arrogance against Trump is somehow OK but anyone calling you for it is 'being a dick'.

Grow up, son. If you have success in business, great, but neither you nor I have negotiated anything like the deals Trump got done. Again, you don't have to like him but stop pretending he doesn't know business and contract law very well.

Again. Not bragging. I've started and and sold 3 companies. Don't work for anyone. I'm in real estate for myself unlike you, so I prolly have a better handle on it than you. I'm in E&P, Multifamily, Commercial and Industrial. Don't lecture me on company structure, son. I've never , ever lost money, net in a year. Sure, we all have stinkers, but one has to be smarter. Your boy Trump is a ****ing disaster, and a loser which is obvious. Please, son.

J.R. said:

---

Again. Not bragging. I've started and and sold 3 companies. Don't work for anyone. I'm in real estate for myself unlike you, so I prolly have a better handle on it than you. I'm in E&P, Multifamily, Commercial and Industrial. Don't lecture me on company structure, son. I've never , ever lost money, net in a year. Sure, we all have stinkers, but one has to be smarter. Your boy Trump is a ****ing disaster, and a loser which is obvious. Please, son.

---

Again, I never asked about your businesses. No one did. So yeh, you're bragging.

And just because you work in a field does not make you an expert. Lord knows I have seen some people who succeeded in business taking stupid risks but they got lucky, and some muddle through and think they can bluff their rep.

All I know for sure about you is you hate Trump, you brag on yourself and you have a thin skin.

You also use more profanity than is reasonable for a substantive discussion.

I respect anyone who can carry a good conversation. At my age and experience, I learned long ago to respect anyone with skill, a good mind, and/or character.

Frankly mister, you're not impressing me. Not that I care, but hating someone for success and pretending you could do better is a mark of a petty man.

you have been an ass and true believing Trumpian which I don't respect. . You have been a far right wing nut job on this forum for a long time, and some of us don't need you talking down to people. Man up. And if you would like to send me a PM , we can take it from there.

HuMcK said:

---

contrario said:

---

So wait, HRC publicly asks a for a foreign government to dig up Trump's tax returns and then this story is published only days later. Wasn't the left in a tizzy when Trump did the same thing? But no outrage with HRC for this?

---

Didn't you know, that was clearly just a "joke" like the one Trump made? But seriously, precedent sets the rules, and 2016 precedent dictates that the GOP has exactly 0 ground from which to whine about hacks or leaks against them. Did y'all really think 2016 could go down the way it did, plus the ensuing cover-up and soft treatment of Russia by Republicans, without any repercussions going forward? I can't wait for the RNC to get hacked and for Republicans to suddenly find their patriotism. My expected response to that, and this, is dramatized below.

---

Huh. I would never have guessed that the Russian hacking crisis was a partisan issue.

J.R. said:

---

you have been an ass and true believing Trumpian which I don't respect. . You have been a far right wing nut job on this forum for a long time, and some of us don't need you talking down to people. Man up. And if you would like to send me a PM , we can take it from there.

---

Ha! I knew you would try that.

The fact is I did not want Trump in 2016. I supported Cruz, and anyone here who was paying attention knew that,

I judge Trump on his job, and he's done a great job.

Meanwhile, you have resorted - again - to puerile insults and false claims.

And no thank you, I PM people I respect, and whose opinion matters to me. You sir, fail on both counts.

I will speak to you only in public, where any attempt to claim I said x or y when I do not will be obvious on its face.

Oldbear83 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

you have been an ass and true believing Trumpian which I don't respect. . You have been a far right wing nut job on this forum for a long time, and some of us don't need you talking down to people. Man up. And if you would like to send me a PM , we can take it from there.

---

The fact is I did not want Trump in 2016. I supported Cruz, and anyone here who was paying attention knew that,

---

Can vouch for 83's support of Cruz.....definitely remember it. In fact 83 didn't like Trump at all during the primaries .

I wanted Rubio and would have settled for Bush or even Biden. Was concerned Trump was too undisciplined and would initiate a nuclear war .

Trump's results have certainly pleased me ....but I still can't stand to listen to his constant narcissism.

J.R. said:

---

midgett said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

Much of this whole "tax returns" junk is about playing on general mass ignorance about tax law and even about what a tax return is actually all about. A tax return is a report that declares income (as the government defines income) and then shows declared deductions, credits, etc. to ultimately arrive at whatever the taxpayers "taxable income" is and if that ends up being a positive number, then the applicable tax rate is applied to arrive at the taxpayer's bottom line liability. If it's a negative number, then you have a loss - for income tax purposes - for which there are either carry-back or carry-forward options, etc. And reporting NOLs on tax returns happens frequently for high end, entrepreneurial tax payers and for corporations and doesn't necessarily indicate total failure or certain bankruptcy, etc. Also, for accounting purposes, the books for the entrepreneur or corporation might be quite different and it's all completely legal as we're talking about two different things here (again, something that's widely misunderstood due largely to the complexity and nature of our income tax laws).

As far as whether or not tax cheating or anything illegal is going on - that's what IRS audits are for and I'm sure somebody like Trump has been audited frequently if not continuously throughout most of his business career. If he's cheating, I have confidence the IRS will find it and there has been nothing to date that I'm aware of to indicate that has been or is the case.

And of course, as others have indicated, tax returns tell you exactly zero about the taxpayer's total assets and/or net worth, etc., which are much greater "success indicators".

So, bottom line, this is all just another attempt at making the POTUS look bad, or look like a failure, or appear dishonest while playing on people's ignorance.

---

What it does show is that for that period of time, he was failure. Not how he portrays himself, hence he's a fraud and a liar. But, we knew about the lying part. Additionally, tell me where you he recieved $52M in interest income in one year? The bigger question is...where is the money coming from? That is why he is doing everything possible not to turn over those returns as the related schedules just might land him in jail.

---

20 years of Amazon tax returns showed huge losses. What a failure that company was!

Oops!

Now they are putting lots of traditional retailers out of business. Just like Trump put Clinton out of business.

---

we are not talking about Amazon. They are a public company and everyone can see their quarterly earning report. Therein is the big, big, difference. Amazon is transparent. Trumps is just the opposite, cuz isn't what he says he is. Are you that dumb?

---

I'm very dumb.

Transparent or not, Amazon generates billions of losses. Based on the definition you used Amazon must be a failure.

Amazon & Trump, like EVERY WISE company and entrepreneur, especially in industries that provide advantages for those well-versed in tax accounting laws, do everything they can to minimize income or, preferably, generate tax losses. To not do so is making a charitable contribution to the government, a very inefficient spender of money. That's ignorant.

Hopefully, since you are in real estate you take advantage of the same laws to generate optimal returns. If not, that's just dumb.

Oldbear83 said:

---

JR: "he is doing everything possible not to turn over those returns as the related schedules just might land him in jail."

So years of audits by the IRS turn up no violations of law, but a committee of malicious partisans should be expected to come up with an objective judgment based on better knowledge of tax law?

Seriously, you need to open some windows, the airplane glue is affecting your thinking.

---

This guy gets it.

Oh, and cut Junior some slack. He's still upset about how that Cohen flip never phased Trump one bit.

Johnny Bear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

JR: "he is doing everything possible not to turn over those returns as the related schedules just might land him in jail."

So years of audits by the IRS turn up no violations of law, but a committee of malicious partisans should be expected to come up with an objective judgment based on better knowledge of tax law?

Seriously, you need to open some windows, the airplane glue is affecting your thinking.

---

This guy gets it.

Oh, and cut Junior some slack. He's still upset about how that Cohen flip never phased Trump one bit.

---

You BOTH get "it!"

midgett said:

---

J.R. said:

---

midgett said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

Much of this whole "tax returns" junk is about playing on general mass ignorance about tax law and even about what a tax return is actually all about. A tax return is a report that declares income (as the government defines income) and then shows declared deductions, credits, etc. to ultimately arrive at whatever the taxpayers "taxable income" is and if that ends up being a positive number, then the applicable tax rate is applied to arrive at the taxpayer's bottom line liability. If it's a negative number, then you have a loss - for income tax purposes - for which there are either carry-back or carry-forward options, etc. And reporting NOLs on tax returns happens frequently for high end, entrepreneurial tax payers and for corporations and doesn't necessarily indicate total failure or certain bankruptcy, etc. Also, for accounting purposes, the books for the entrepreneur or corporation might be quite different and it's all completely legal as we're talking about two different things here (again, something that's widely misunderstood due largely to the complexity and nature of our income tax laws).

As far as whether or not tax cheating or anything illegal is going on - that's what IRS audits are for and I'm sure somebody like Trump has been audited frequently if not continuously throughout most of his business career. If he's cheating, I have confidence the IRS will find it and there has been nothing to date that I'm aware of to indicate that has been or is the case.

And of course, as others have indicated, tax returns tell you exactly zero about the taxpayer's total assets and/or net worth, etc., which are much greater "success indicators".

So, bottom line, this is all just another attempt at making the POTUS look bad, or look like a failure, or appear dishonest while playing on people's ignorance.

---

What it does show is that for that period of time, he was failure. Not how he portrays himself, hence he's a fraud and a liar. But, we knew about the lying part. Additionally, tell me where you he recieved $52M in interest income in one year? The bigger question is...where is the money coming from? That is why he is doing everything possible not to turn over those returns as the related schedules just might land him in jail.

---

20 years of Amazon tax returns showed huge losses. What a failure that company was!

Oops!

Now they are putting lots of traditional retailers out of business. Just like Trump put Clinton out of business.

---

we are not talking about Amazon. They are a public company and everyone can see their quarterly earning report. Therein is the big, big, difference. Amazon is transparent. Trumps is just the opposite, cuz isn't what he says he is. Are you that dumb?

---

I'm very dumb.

Transparent or not, Amazon generates billions of losses. Based on the definition you used Amazon must be a failure.

Amazon & Trump, like EVERY WISE company and entrepreneur, especially in industries that provide advantages for those well-versed in tax accounting laws, do everything they can to minimize income or, preferably, generate tax losses. To not do so is making a charitable contribution to the government, a very inefficient spender of money. That's ignorant.

Hopefully, since you are in real estate you take advantage of the same laws to generate optimal returns. If not, that's just dumb.

---

If JR's in real estate he's got a rent home in a trust from ma n pa he gets a monthly check in mail for and he does nothing to get it and he calls that, "in real estate!"

Sham

Btw, due to the tax code in the 80s there were investments offered that did not provide any cash returns. You were told that upfront.

They generated losses in multiples of the cash you invested. It was crazy but legal and quite popular.

Fortunately those laws have changed.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Threads like this reflect not only the partisan divide we see today, but confirm that Trump haters really have gone into serious delusion.

Donald Trump is undeniably famous, rich, and successful as a businessman. None of that has anything to do with his qualifications for running to be President, and no, believing nasty rumors about Trump does not create grounds for demanding his tax returns. And anyone who has actually done taxes (the long form) knows there is only certain information included in returns, anyway.

It's spite and denial of reality that we see from the Left, nothing more.

---

Enron was undeniably a great company.

I'll be clear-I don't know if Trump was a successful businessman, so I am not saying he wasn't. But he lies constantly about everything and even more about himself. Concluding he has great business acumen based on what he told you in books and scripted reality shows does not meat the definition of "undeniably."

midgett said:

---

Btw, due to the tax code in the 80s there were investments offered that did not provide any cash returns. You were told that upfront.

They generated losses in multiples of the cash you invested. It was crazy but legal and quite popular.

Fortunately those laws have changed.

---

^^^ I'm very curious how this worked? I was too young to know this I guess

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Threads like this reflect not only the partisan divide we see today, but confirm that Trump haters really have gone into serious delusion.

Donald Trump is undeniably famous, rich, and successful as a businessman. None of that has anything to do with his qualifications for running to be President, and no, believing nasty rumors about Trump does not create grounds for demanding his tax returns. And anyone who has actually done taxes (the long form) knows there is only certain information included in returns, anyway.

It's spite and denial of reality that we see from the Left, nothing more.

---

Enron was undeniably a great company.

I'll be clear-I don't know if Trump was a successful businessman, so I am not saying he wasn't. But he lies constantly about everything and even more about himself. Concluding he has great business acumen based on what he told you in books and scripted reality shows does not meat the definition of "undeniably."

---

Weak comparison, since Enron broke laws and Trump did not. You don't seem to grasp that fact very well.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Threads like this reflect not only the partisan divide we see today, but confirm that Trump haters really have gone into serious delusion.

Donald Trump is undeniably famous, rich, and successful as a businessman. None of that has anything to do with his qualifications for running to be President, and no, believing nasty rumors about Trump does not create grounds for demanding his tax returns. And anyone who has actually done taxes (the long form) knows there is only certain information included in returns, anyway.

It's spite and denial of reality that we see from the Left, nothing more.

---

Enron was undeniably a great company.

I'll be clear-I don't know if Trump was a successful businessman, so I am not saying he wasn't. But he lies constantly about everything and even more about himself. Concluding he has great business acumen based on what he told you in books and scripted reality shows does not meat the definition of "undeniably."

---

Weak comparison, since Enron broke laws and Trump did not. You don't seem to grasp that fact very well.

---

In TDS the symptoms of delusional thoughts and hallucinations envelope the infected

LOL - leave it to liberals and @nytimes to try and turn a success story into something negative that everyone already knew about.

Florda_mike said:

---

midgett said:

---

J.R. said:

---

midgett said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

Much of this whole "tax returns" junk is about playing on general mass ignorance about tax law and even about what a tax return is actually all about. A tax return is a report that declares income (as the government defines income) and then shows declared deductions, credits, etc. to ultimately arrive at whatever the taxpayers "taxable income" is and if that ends up being a positive number, then the applicable tax rate is applied to arrive at the taxpayer's bottom line liability. If it's a negative number, then you have a loss - for income tax purposes - for which there are either carry-back or carry-forward options, etc. And reporting NOLs on tax returns happens frequently for high end, entrepreneurial tax payers and for corporations and doesn't necessarily indicate total failure or certain bankruptcy, etc. Also, for accounting purposes, the books for the entrepreneur or corporation might be quite different and it's all completely legal as we're talking about two different things here (again, something that's widely misunderstood due largely to the complexity and nature of our income tax laws).

As far as whether or not tax cheating or anything illegal is going on - that's what IRS audits are for and I'm sure somebody like Trump has been audited frequently if not continuously throughout most of his business career. If he's cheating, I have confidence the IRS will find it and there has been nothing to date that I'm aware of to indicate that has been or is the case.

And of course, as others have indicated, tax returns tell you exactly zero about the taxpayer's total assets and/or net worth, etc., which are much greater "success indicators".

So, bottom line, this is all just another attempt at making the POTUS look bad, or look like a failure, or appear dishonest while playing on people's ignorance.

---

What it does show is that for that period of time, he was failure. Not how he portrays himself, hence he's a fraud and a liar. But, we knew about the lying part. Additionally, tell me where you he recieved $52M in interest income in one year? The bigger question is...where is the money coming from? That is why he is doing everything possible not to turn over those returns as the related schedules just might land him in jail.

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20 years of Amazon tax returns showed huge losses. What a failure that company was!

Oops!

Now they are putting lots of traditional retailers out of business. Just like Trump put Clinton out of business.

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we are not talking about Amazon. They are a public company and everyone can see their quarterly earning report. Therein is the big, big, difference. Amazon is transparent. Trumps is just the opposite, cuz isn't what he says he is. Are you that dumb?

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I'm very dumb.

Transparent or not, Amazon generates billions of losses. Based on the definition you used Amazon must be a failure.

Amazon & Trump, like EVERY WISE company and entrepreneur, especially in industries that provide advantages for those well-versed in tax accounting laws, do everything they can to minimize income or, preferably, generate tax losses. To not do so is making a charitable contribution to the government, a very inefficient spender of money. That's ignorant.

Hopefully, since you are in real estate you take advantage of the same laws to generate optimal returns. If not, that's just dumb.

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If JR's in real estate he's got a rent home in a trust from ma n pa he gets a monthly check in mail for and he does nothing to get it and he calls that, "in real estate!"

Sham

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no mikey. Multifamily 18,000 doors. Office building, Industrial. Oh, and most importantly, I don't lose money like the Trumps. thanks for playing.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Booray said:

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No one knows how much Trump is worth or how much he started with. Those of you who accept he has been a great success in business are speculating based on what you see on TV.

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Actually, Booray, I think you have touched on the reason why Donald Trump does not want to reveal his tax returns. I am not sure he is worth quite what he has claimed. Yes, he is a narcissist. If he has claimed to be worth $10 billion and is only actually worth $5 billion, does that make him a failure? I don't think so.

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Certain types of successful businesses don't necessarily make a profit year in year out. Real estate firms, high tech, petroleum exploration can all "lose" money over years while building asset value, and then monetizing those built up assets through a sale which triggers a large taxable event.

J.R. said:

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Florda_mike said:

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midgett said:

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J.R. said:

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midgett said:

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J.R. said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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Much of this whole "tax returns" junk is about playing on general mass ignorance about tax law and even about what a tax return is actually all about. A tax return is a report that declares income (as the government defines income) and then shows declared deductions, credits, etc. to ultimately arrive at whatever the taxpayers "taxable income" is and if that ends up being a positive number, then the applicable tax rate is applied to arrive at the taxpayer's bottom line liability. If it's a negative number, then you have a loss - for income tax purposes - for which there are either carry-back or carry-forward options, etc. And reporting NOLs on tax returns happens frequently for high end, entrepreneurial tax payers and for corporations and doesn't necessarily indicate total failure or certain bankruptcy, etc. Also, for accounting purposes, the books for the entrepreneur or corporation might be quite different and it's all completely legal as we're talking about two different things here (again, something that's widely misunderstood due largely to the complexity and nature of our income tax laws).

As far as whether or not tax cheating or anything illegal is going on - that's what IRS audits are for and I'm sure somebody like Trump has been audited frequently if not continuously throughout most of his business career. If he's cheating, I have confidence the IRS will find it and there has been nothing to date that I'm aware of to indicate that has been or is the case.

And of course, as others have indicated, tax returns tell you exactly zero about the taxpayer's total assets and/or net worth, etc., which are much greater "success indicators".

So, bottom line, this is all just another attempt at making the POTUS look bad, or look like a failure, or appear dishonest while playing on people's ignorance.

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What it does show is that for that period of time, he was failure. Not how he portrays himself, hence he's a fraud and a liar. But, we knew about the lying part. Additionally, tell me where you he recieved $52M in interest income in one year? The bigger question is...where is the money coming from? That is why he is doing everything possible not to turn over those returns as the related schedules just might land him in jail.

---

20 years of Amazon tax returns showed huge losses. What a failure that company was!

Oops!

Now they are putting lots of traditional retailers out of business. Just like Trump put Clinton out of business.

---

we are not talking about Amazon. They are a public company and everyone can see their quarterly earning report. Therein is the big, big, difference. Amazon is transparent. Trumps is just the opposite, cuz isn't what he says he is. Are you that dumb?

---

I'm very dumb.

Transparent or not, Amazon generates billions of losses. Based on the definition you used Amazon must be a failure.

Amazon & Trump, like EVERY WISE company and entrepreneur, especially in industries that provide advantages for those well-versed in tax accounting laws, do everything they can to minimize income or, preferably, generate tax losses. To not do so is making a charitable contribution to the government, a very inefficient spender of money. That's ignorant.

Hopefully, since you are in real estate you take advantage of the same laws to generate optimal returns. If not, that's just dumb.

---

If JR's in real estate he's got a rent home in a trust from ma n pa he gets a monthly check in mail for and he does nothing to get it and he calls that, "in real estate!"

Sham

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no mikey. Multifamily 18,000 doors. Office building, Industrial. Oh, and most importantly, I don't lose money like the Trumps. thanks for playing.

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No way you own that nor built it

You MIGHT be part of a management team or it's a family business that you had nothing to do with building

You obviously have no clue what Trump has done so stop acting like you are all high and mighty

You read nothing of his real estate journey and just comment from anger

This story has already failed in MSM LOL

Doc Holliday said:

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This story has already failed in MSM LOL

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What do you mean?