Pope says Christians should never seek to convert unbelievers, anyone who proselytizes "is not a disciple of Jesus"

In a dialogue with Catholic high school students in Rome this weekend, Pope Francis responded to a question about how to deal with atheists and people of other faiths by saying that Christians should never proselytize and any who do are not truly Christians.

The Pope's lengthy answer, reprinted in full at the bottom of this article, contained numerous notable remarks illustrating the Pope's views on evangelism, including:

• [Speaking of having Jewish and Muslim friends]: "We are all the same, all children of God."
• "It didn't occur to me, and it doesn't have to be like, saying to a boy or a girl: 'You are Jewish, you are Muslim: come, be converted!'"
• "We are not in the times of the crusades."
• "In front of an unbeliever the last thing I have to do is try to convince him. Never."
• "But listen: Never, never bring the gospel by proselytizing."
• "If someone says they are a disciple of Jesus and comes to you with proselytism, they are not a disciple of Jesus."
• "The Church does not grow by proselytism."

Last year, Pope Francis told a grieving boy that his late father was in heaven, despite the fact that he was an atheist, because he had his children baptized.

The pope's full answer (via Google translate):

Quote:

---

Let's go to your first. When I taught what a look and what words I had towards believing children or of other religions. But in Argentina there is a social phenomenon, which is the migratory phenomenon. After the two great wars there were waves of migration from Europe, also from Asia Minor and the Italians. He thinks that 40% of Argentines have an Italian surname, almost the other 40 Spanish. Then Poles, Russians, all ... even Arabs, whom we called "Turks" because they came with the passport of the great Ottoman Empire. There is a mixture of blood, a strong mixed race in Argentina I am the son of a migrant, and this has made a culture of coexistence. I went to public school and we always had companions from other religions. We were educated to coexist: "There is a Jew, Russian, ah come, come! I am a friend of Russian!" They said Russian because the majority of the Jews came from Odessa, some from Poland but the majority from Odessa. Then there were some Arabs, Lebanese, Syrians "Ah, Turkish! Come, come!" This was Muslim, this was Jewish. But we all played football together, we were all friends.

This has taught me so much, that we are all the same, all children of God and this purifies your gaze, it makes you human. In Argentina there is a small group of closed-minded Catholics who do not want Jews, do not want Muslims, but this group ... I have never liked it, is a group that is on the fringe, they have a cultural magazine but they do not have impact in society ... This is the secret: You must be consistent with your faith. It didn't occur to me and it doesn't have to be like saying to a boy or a girl: "You are Jewish, you are Muslim: come, be converted!" You be consistent with your faith and that consistency is what will make you mature. We are not in the times of the crusades. It is a bad thing but it made me suffer so much, a step of the "Chanson de Roland," when the Christians, the crusaders had conquered the Muslims and then a line of all the Muslims was queued and the priest was in front of it and a soldier. The priest in front of the baptismal font and everyone came read that passage he asked: "Either the baptism or the sword." This has happened in history! They also do it with us Christians in other parts, they are also doing it but what we did was shameful because it is a story of forced conversion, of not respecting the dignity of the person. This is why my experience was natural with people of other religions because my dad my dad's job was an accountant and he had so many Jewish business clients and they came home, it was normal and I didn't have this as a problem. But it must be normal. Nothing to leave them aside because they have another faith ...

The first is all. In front of an unbeliever the last thing I have to do is try to convince him. Never. The last thing I have to do is speak. I have to live consistent with my faith. And it will be my testimony to awaken the curiosity of the other who says: "But why do you do this?" And yes, I can speak then. But listen: Never, never bring the gospel by proselytizing. If someone says they are a disciple of Jesus and comes to you with proselytism, they are not a disciple of Jesus. Proselytism is not done, the church does not grow by proselytism. Pope Benedict had said it, it grows by attraction, by testimony. Football teams proselytize, this can be done. Political parties, can be done there. But with faith there is no proselytism. And if someone says to me: "But why?" Read, read, read the Gospel, this is my faith. But without pressure.

---

article: https://disrn.com/news/pope-says-christians-should-never-try-to-convert-unbelievers-anyone-who-proselytizes-is-not-a-disciple-of-jesus

I'm far from a biblical scholar and I don't know the context of what the Pope was talking about here.

I'd be interested to hear a follow up question to the Pope about this verse and several others that seem to contradict his statement, but again he might have been talking more specifically about something else.

Matthew 28:19-20 New International Version (NIV)

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

This Pope needs to retire .

riflebear said:

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I'm far from a biblical scholar and I don't know the context of what the Pope was talking about here.

I'd be interested to hear a follow up question to the Pope about this verse and several others that seem to contradict his statement, but again he might have been talking more specifically about something else.

Matthew 28:19-20 New International Version (NIV)

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

---

The Catholic church does not adhere to sola scriptura. However, IMO the Pope is advocating a modern, worldly position rather than a biblical one. This is a direct contradiction to the Great Commission scripture you posted. Other scripture also supports your view:

And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
-Luke 14:23

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
2 Timothy 4:2

In addition, I believe Paul and others went into public places and advocated Christian views directly. Even Jesus advocated positions in public places that went beyond Jewish religious norms. What exactly is the Sermon on the Mount if not proselytizing? This would also be at odds with Jesus Parable of the Sower that basically says you spread the counsel of God and some people will get it and many others will not accept it.

Not Roman Catholic for a reason though I self identify as AngloCatholic, so not an expert on all Papal matters. That said, the two previous Popes were great men of the faith IMHO, but this one just ... isn't. That said, it almost seems as if there's basically something lost in translation here; as if he's trying to make a point that's too nuanced or maybe misinterpreted. Could it just be a language thing? In any event, it's this sort of thing that keeps me on this side of the Tiber.

The current pope is a nut job.

God Bless Pope Francis and may you sustain and guide him as he continues to preach the Gospel from a bottom up perspective.

Canada2017 said:

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This Pope needs to retire .

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Sadly, we'd most likely get a Frances 2.0 with the number of Cardinals that and the specific ones that he's appointed.
We're probably 40-60 years away from truly cleaning the Vatican.

Coke Bear said:

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Canada2017 said:

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This Pope needs to retire .

---

Sadly, we'd most likely get a Frances 2.0 with the number of Cardinals that and the specific ones that he's appointed.
We're probably 40-60 years away from truly cleaning the Vatican.

---

Can't wait that long.

Christians shouldn't be obnoxious or irritating while sharing the Gospel.

We can evangelize without being rude

In my experience, the soft sell approach works best. Live your life in a way that people respect and admire. Lead by example.

The hard sell approach of a certain religion, - "either believe what I believe or I will chop your head off" seems to be not quite as effective.

Nothing wrong with spreading the Word, just don't be too damn pushy. People don't like that.

Coke Bear said:

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Canada2017 said:

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This Pope needs to retire .

---

Sadly, we'd most likely get a Frances 2.0 with the number of Cardinals that and the specific ones that he's appointed.
We're probably 40-60 years away from truly cleaning the Vatican.

---

You mean like "Saint" John Paul II cleaned the Vatican?

cinque said:

---

You mean like "Saint" John Paul II cleaned the Vatican?

---

A. He is a saint. He's had two verified miracles attributed to his intersession.
B. I never have claimed that he cleaned the Vatican.

My hope is that within 40-60 years many of these Cardinals will pass away and ones with better formation will be appointed.

BaylorFTW said:

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Pope says Christians should never seek to convert unbelievers, anyone who proselytizes "is not a disciple of Jesus"

In a dialogue with Catholic high school students in Rome this weekend, Pope Francis responded to a question about how to deal with atheists and people of other faiths by saying that Christians should never proselytize and any who do are not truly Christians.

The Pope's lengthy answer, reprinted in full at the bottom of this article, contained numerous notable remarks illustrating the Pope's views on evangelism, including:

• [Speaking of having Jewish and Muslim friends]: "We are all the same, all children of God."
• "It didn't occur to me, and it doesn't have to be like, saying to a boy or a girl: 'You are Jewish, you are Muslim: come, be converted!'"
• "We are not in the times of the crusades."
• "In front of an unbeliever the last thing I have to do is try to convince him. Never."
• "But listen: Never, never bring the gospel by proselytizing."
• "If someone says they are a disciple of Jesus and comes to you with proselytism, they are not a disciple of Jesus."
• "The Church does not grow by proselytism."

Last year, Pope Francis told a grieving boy that his late father was in heaven, despite the fact that he was an atheist, because he had his children baptized.

The pope's full answer (via Google translate):

Quote:

---

Let's go to your first. When I taught what a look and what words I had towards believing children or of other religions. But in Argentina there is a social phenomenon, which is the migratory phenomenon. After the two great wars there were waves of migration from Europe, also from Asia Minor and the Italians. He thinks that 40% of Argentines have an Italian surname, almost the other 40 Spanish. Then Poles, Russians, all ... even Arabs, whom we called "Turks" because they came with the passport of the great Ottoman Empire. There is a mixture of blood, a strong mixed race in Argentina I am the son of a migrant, and this has made a culture of coexistence. I went to public school and we always had companions from other religions. We were educated to coexist: "There is a Jew, Russian, ah come, come! I am a friend of Russian!" They said Russian because the majority of the Jews came from Odessa, some from Poland but the majority from Odessa. Then there were some Arabs, Lebanese, Syrians "Ah, Turkish! Come, come!" This was Muslim, this was Jewish. But we all played football together, we were all friends.

This has taught me so much, that we are all the same, all children of God and this purifies your gaze, it makes you human. In Argentina there is a small group of closed-minded Catholics who do not want Jews, do not want Muslims, but this group ... I have never liked it, is a group that is on the fringe, they have a cultural magazine but they do not have impact in society ... This is the secret: You must be consistent with your faith. It didn't occur to me and it doesn't have to be like saying to a boy or a girl: "You are Jewish, you are Muslim: come, be converted!" You be consistent with your faith and that consistency is what will make you mature. We are not in the times of the crusades. It is a bad thing but it made me suffer so much, a step of the "Chanson de Roland," when the Christians, the crusaders had conquered the Muslims and then a line of all the Muslims was queued and the priest was in front of it and a soldier. The priest in front of the baptismal font and everyone came read that passage he asked: "Either the baptism or the sword." This has happened in history! They also do it with us Christians in other parts, they are also doing it but what we did was shameful because it is a story of forced conversion, of not respecting the dignity of the person. This is why my experience was natural with people of other religions because my dad my dad's job was an accountant and he had so many Jewish business clients and they came home, it was normal and I didn't have this as a problem. But it must be normal. Nothing to leave them aside because they have another faith ...

The first is all. In front of an unbeliever the last thing I have to do is try to convince him. Never. The last thing I have to do is speak. I have to live consistent with my faith. And it will be my testimony to awaken the curiosity of the other who says: "But why do you do this?" And yes, I can speak then. But listen: Never, never bring the gospel by proselytizing. If someone says they are a disciple of Jesus and comes to you with proselytism, they are not a disciple of Jesus. Proselytism is not done, the church does not grow by proselytism. Pope Benedict had said it, it grows by attraction, by testimony. Football teams proselytize, this can be done. Political parties, can be done there. But with faith there is no proselytism. And if someone says to me: "But why?" Read, read, read the Gospel, this is my faith. But without pressure.

---

article: https://disrn.com/news/pope-says-christians-should-never-try-to-convert-unbelievers-anyone-who-proselytizes-is-not-a-disciple-of-jesus

---

Here is another take on the Pope's words. --Taken from The Catholic Herald.

The answer, it turned out, hung on a single word: proselytism. The Pope was speaking to priests, religious and leaders of other Christian communities in the Moroccan capital Rabat. His audience serves in an overwhelmingly Muslim country whose criminal code prohibits conversion from Islam to Christianity. It was in this context that Francis made the following remarks:
"Our mission as baptized persons, priests and consecrated men and women, is not really determined by the number or size of spaces that we occupy, but rather by our capacity to generate change and to awaken wonder and compassion. We do this by the way we live as disciples of Jesus, in the midst of those with whom we share our daily lives, joys and sorrows, suffering and hopes. In other words, the paths of mission are not those of proselytism. Please, these paths are not those of proselytism!"
The confusion perhaps arose because the Pope did not offer a definition of proselytism. In the New Testament, the Greek word proselytos referred to a 1st-century convert to Judaism. Later the Anglicised word "proselyte" came to mean a convert in general. "Proselytism" was therefore the act of making converts, and that is how most Catholics understand it today.
The problem is that, following Vatican II, the word has changed its meaning in theological circles. It is now considered a pejorative term. In an article for the Catholic News Agency last year, Bishop Arthur Serratelli of Paterson, New Jersey, explained the new definition as follows: "This meaning includes using any type of pressure to convert someone, whether it is moral, political or economic. It means caricaturing with unfair criticism the beliefs of others."
It is true that Pope Francis has a fondness for neologisms and startling turns of phrase, but he didn't invent the new meaning of proselytism. In his address in Morocco, he quoted his predecessor, Benedict XVI, as saying that "the Church grows not through proselytism, but through attraction, through witness". That is an accurate paraphrase of a homily that Benedict gave at the Brazilian shrine of Aparecida in 2007.
Put simply, when Church leaders speak of proselytism, they mean a mission that seeks power and influence rather than the salvation of souls.

twd74 said:

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Here is another take on the Pope's words. --Taken from The Catholic Herald.

The answer, it turned out, hung on a single word: proselytism. The Pope was speaking to priests, religious and leaders of other Christian communities in the Moroccan capital Rabat. His audience serves in an overwhelmingly Muslim country whose criminal code prohibits conversion from Islam to Christianity. It was in this context that Francis made the following remarks:
"Our mission as baptized persons, priests and consecrated men and women, is not really determined by the number or size of spaces that we occupy, but rather by our capacity to generate change and to awaken wonder and compassion. We do this by the way we live as disciples of Jesus, in the midst of those with whom we share our daily lives, joys and sorrows, suffering and hopes. In other words, the paths of mission are not those of proselytism. Please, these paths are not those of proselytism!"
The confusion perhaps arose because the Pope did not offer a definition of proselytism. In the New Testament, the Greek word proselytos referred to a 1st-century convert to Judaism. Later the Anglicised word "proselyte" came to mean a convert in general. "Proselytism" was therefore the act of making converts, and that is how most Catholics understand it today.
The problem is that, following Vatican II, the word has changed its meaning in theological circles. It is now considered a pejorative term. In an article for the Catholic News Agency last year, Bishop Arthur Serratelli of Paterson, New Jersey, explained the new definition as follows: "This meaning includes using any type of pressure to convert someone, whether it is moral, political or economic. It means caricaturing with unfair criticism the beliefs of others."
It is true that Pope Francis has a fondness for neologisms and startling turns of phrase, but he didn't invent the new meaning of proselytism. In his address in Morocco, he quoted his predecessor, Benedict XVI, as saying that "the Church grows not through proselytism, but through attraction, through witness". That is an accurate paraphrase of a homily that Benedict gave at the Brazilian shrine of Aparecida in 2007.
Put simply, when Church leaders speak of proselytism, they mean a mission that seeks power and influence rather than the salvation of souls.

---

Ok, what are modern day examples of where Christians are using power and influence to force people to convert to Christianity? I am not aware of any. If there aren't any, this explanation reads like spin or a very out of touch statement from Francis. For example, who cares what happened during the Crusades if forced conversion isn't going on now. It seems very unlikely that forced conversions are going on in Morocco (the place of his speech) either. And if there are some modern day examples he is concerned about, he should have named them specifically.

He's an infiltrator.

The only really bad decision Francis made was going along with the idea to fast track JPII's canonization. A person who allowed the most prodigious sexual predator in the history of the modern church to abuse with impunity Is nobody's saint

Baylor3216 said:

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He's an infiltrator.

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Yep I'm a conspiracy theorist to some here and I'll give em more food here but Pope is nothing but a globalist plant just like obama

These things I know to be true

cinque said:

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The only really bad decision Francis made was going along with the idea to fast track JPII's canonization. A person who allowed the most prodigious sexual predator in the history of the modern church to abuse with impunity Is nobody's saint

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^^^ So Cinque's puppet master surfaces as we predicted and he's Catholic too

cinque said:

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The only really bad decision Francis made was going along with the idea to fast track JPII's canonization. A person who allowed the most prodigious sexual predator in the history of the modern church to abuse with impunity Is nobody's saint

---

I torn about this because I believe that we'll never know how much JPII knew. I want to believe that he was aware of the situation; however, he was misled by people he trusted.

At best, he was naive and didn't understand the scope. At worst, he directly covered up the situation. I choose not to believe the worst.

As I mentioned earlier, two miracles have been directly attributed to his intercession. That definitely means that JPII is in heaven, therefore, a saint.

Many a sinner has become a saint.

The current Pope wants the poor to migrate to the United States to fill up the pews and coffers at these massively expanded Catholic churches.

Christians are supposed to spread the word of God. Basic Biblical principle. Even X knows it.

xiledinok said:

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The current Pope wants the poor to migrate to the United States to fill up the pews and coffers at these massively expanded Catholic churches.

Christians are supposed to spread the word of God. Basic Biblical principle. Even X knows it.

---

Please define "massively expanded Catholic churches."

Coke Bear said:

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xiledinok said:

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The current Pope wants the poor to migrate to the United States to fill up the pews and coffers at these massively expanded Catholic churches.

Christians are supposed to spread the word of God. Basic Biblical principle. Even X knows it.

---

Please define "massively expanded Catholic churches."

---

Massive additions to churches and a 2k seat new shrine to be built on the primary Hispanic side of dead center America.

The local diocese in McAllen is actively supporting border crossings, according to those trying to build border walls.

Coke Bear said:

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cinque said:

---

The only really bad decision Francis made was going along with the idea to fast track JPII's canonization. A person who allowed the most prodigious sexual predator in the history of the modern church to abuse with impunity Is nobody's saint

---

I torn about this because I believe that we'll never know how much JPII knew. I want to believe that he was aware of the situation; however, he was misled by people he trusted.

At best, he was naive and didn't understand the scope. At worst, he directly covered up the situation. I choose not to believe the worst.

As I mentioned earlier, two miracles have been directly attributed to his intercession. That definitely means that JPII is in heaven, therefore, a saint.

Many a sinner has become a saint.

---

John Paul fought against the Nazis and helped Reagan free Poland and East Germany from the communists .

In addition John Paul helped and inspired millions of people throughout the world .

One life extremely well spent .

xiledinok said:

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Massive additions to churches and a 10k seat new shrine to be built on the primary Hispanic side of dead center America.

The local diocese in McAllen is actively supporting border crossings, according to those trying to build border walls.

---

I'm not aware of any Catholic churches building additional room in the sanctuary. Sadly, due to a priest shortage and the rising numbers of the NONES, many churches are being consolidated, closed, and/or sold.

You'll have to be more specific on the new shrine. I couldn't find anything.

I don't know the Bishop of McAllen or his policies. Unfortunately, many US bishops DO support immigration to bolster their decline in numbers. Fortunately, the US still have some Bishops that do not support illegal immigration. Sadly, they are far too few of them.

Meanwhile Catholic Charities continues to help thousands of Americans every single day .

John 14:6

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


If you believe John 14:6 and don't believe you should share that ...... what does that make you?

Canada2017 said:

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Coke Bear said:

---

cinque said:

---

The only really bad decision Francis made was going along with the idea to fast track JPII's canonization. A person who allowed the most prodigious sexual predator in the history of the modern church to abuse with impunity Is nobody's saint

---

I torn about this because I believe that we'll never know how much JPII knew. I want to believe that he was aware of the situation; however, he was misled by people he trusted.

At best, he was naive and didn't understand the scope. At worst, he directly covered up the situation. I choose not to believe the worst.

As I mentioned earlier, two miracles have been directly attributed to his intercession. That definitely means that JPII is in heaven, therefore, a saint.

Many a sinner has become a saint.

---

John Paul fought against the Nazis and helped Reagan free Poland and East Germany from the communists .

In addition John Paul helped and inspired millions of people throughout the world .

One life extremely well spent .

---

He knew and punted to his successor to actually laicize the worst abuser in Church history just because of his prodigious fund raising capability:

A report from the Legionaries of Christ a Catholic order championed by Pope John Paul II has found that 175 minors were abused by priests since its inception, a third of whom were abused by notorious founder Marcel Maciel.
Key points:

• The order said the abuse happened over decades since its founding in 1941
• Pope John Paul II's secretary of state has resigned as dean of the college of cardinals
• Critics say the report is mere 'whitewashing' and does not reflect the true scale of abuse

When Maciel wasn't abusing seminarians he was raping women, fathering children and abusing some of his own children. JPII knew and did nothing:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-23/legionaries-of-christ-catholic-child-abuse-report-marcel-maciel/11824296

curtpenn said:

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Not Roman Catholic for a reason though I self identify as AngloCatholic, so not an expert on all Papal matters. That said, the two previous Popes were great men of the faith IMHO, but this one just ... isn't. That said, it almost seems as if there's basically something lost in translation here; as if he's trying to make a point that's too nuanced or maybe misinterpreted. Could it just be a language thing? In any event, it's this sort of thing that keeps me on this side of the Tiber.

---

I don't trust any translation that says "football" when it means "soccer".

cinque said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Coke Bear said:

---

cinque said:

---

The only really bad decision Francis made was going along with the idea to fast track JPII's canonization. A person who allowed the most prodigious sexual predator in the history of the modern church to abuse with impunity Is nobody's saint

---

I torn about this because I believe that we'll never know how much JPII knew. I want to believe that he was aware of the situation; however, he was misled by people he trusted.

At best, he was naive and didn't understand the scope. At worst, he directly covered up the situation. I choose not to believe the worst.

As I mentioned earlier, two miracles have been directly attributed to his intercession. That definitely means that JPII is in heaven, therefore, a saint.

Many a sinner has become a saint.

---

John Paul fought against the Nazis and helped Reagan free Poland and East Germany from the communists .

In addition John Paul helped and inspired millions of people throughout the world .

One life extremely well spent .

---

He knew and punted to his successor to actually laicize the worst abuser in Church history just because of his prodigious fund raising capability:

A report from the Legionaries of Christ a Catholic order championed by Pope John Paul II has found that 175 minors were abused by priests since its inception, a third of whom were abused by notorious founder Marcel Maciel.
Key points:

• The order said the abuse happened over decades since its founding in 1941
• Pope John Paul II's secretary of state has resigned as dean of the college of cardinals
• Critics say the report is mere 'whitewashing' and does not reflect the true scale of abuse

When Maciel wasn't abusing seminarians he was raping women, fathering children and abusing some of his own children. JPII knew and did nothing:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-23/legionaries-of-christ-catholic-child-abuse-report-marcel-maciel/11824296

---

I don't believe anything you post . You remain little more than virulent hater .

Canada2017 said:

---

cinque said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

cinque said:

---

The only really bad decision Francis made was going along with the idea to fast track JPII's canonization. A person who allowed the most prodigious sexual predator in the history of the modern church to abuse with impunity Is nobody's saint

---

I torn about this because I believe that we'll never know how much JPII knew. I want to believe that he was aware of the situation; however, he was misled by people he trusted.

At best, he was naive and didn't understand the scope. At worst, he directly covered up the situation. I choose not to believe the worst.

As I mentioned earlier, two miracles have been directly attributed to his intercession. That definitely means that JPII is in heaven, therefore, a saint.

Many a sinner has become a saint.

---

John Paul fought against the Nazis and helped Reagan free Poland and East Germany from the communists .

In addition John Paul helped and inspired millions of people throughout the world .

One life extremely well spent .

---

He knew and punted to his successor to actually laicize the worst abuser in Church history just because of his prodigious fund raising capability:

A report from the Legionaries of Christ a Catholic order championed by Pope John Paul II has found that 175 minors were abused by priests since its inception, a third of whom were abused by notorious founder Marcel Maciel.
Key points:

• The order said the abuse happened over decades since its founding in 1941
• Pope John Paul II's secretary of state has resigned as dean of the college of cardinals
• Critics say the report is mere 'whitewashing' and does not reflect the true scale of abuse

When Maciel wasn't abusing seminarians he was raping women, fathering children and abusing some of his own children. JPII knew and did nothing:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-23/legionaries-of-christ-catholic-child-abuse-report-marcel-maciel/11824296

---

I don't believe anything you post . You remain little more than virulent hater .

---

You're a Russicans. You don't like facts.

cinque said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

cinque said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

cinque said:

---

The only really bad decision Francis made was going along with the idea to fast track JPII's canonization. A person who allowed the most prodigious sexual predator in the history of the modern church to abuse with impunity Is nobody's saint

---

I torn about this because I believe that we'll never know how much JPII knew. I want to believe that he was aware of the situation; however, he was misled by people he trusted.

At best, he was naive and didn't understand the scope. At worst, he directly covered up the situation. I choose not to believe the worst.

As I mentioned earlier, two miracles have been directly attributed to his intercession. That definitely means that JPII is in heaven, therefore, a saint.

Many a sinner has become a saint.

---

John Paul fought against the Nazis and helped Reagan free Poland and East Germany from the communists .

In addition John Paul helped and inspired millions of people throughout the world .

One life extremely well spent .

---

He knew and punted to his successor to actually laicize the worst abuser in Church history just because of his prodigious fund raising capability:

A report from the Legionaries of Christ a Catholic order championed by Pope John Paul II has found that 175 minors were abused by priests since its inception, a third of whom were abused by notorious founder Marcel Maciel.
Key points:

• The order said the abuse happened over decades since its founding in 1941
• Pope John Paul II's secretary of state has resigned as dean of the college of cardinals
• Critics say the report is mere 'whitewashing' and does not reflect the true scale of abuse

When Maciel wasn't abusing seminarians he was raping women, fathering children and abusing some of his own children. JPII knew and did nothing:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-23/legionaries-of-christ-catholic-child-abuse-report-marcel-maciel/11824296

---

I don't believe anything you post . You remain little more than virulent hater .

---

You're a Russicans. You don't like facts.

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Your managers are a racist nut cases and only hope to destroy the reputation of a great man .

While hiding behind their little bot .

Osodecentx said:

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Christians shouldn't be obnoxious or irritating while sharing the Gospel.

We can evangelize without being rude

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Kind of what C.S. Lewis and Fred Rogers were about, that.

Canada2017 said:

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cinque said:

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Canada2017 said:

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cinque said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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cinque said:

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The only really bad decision Francis made was going along with the idea to fast track JPII's canonization. A person who allowed the most prodigious sexual predator in the history of the modern church to abuse with impunity Is nobody's saint

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I torn about this because I believe that we'll never know how much JPII knew. I want to believe that he was aware of the situation; however, he was misled by people he trusted.

At best, he was naive and didn't understand the scope. At worst, he directly covered up the situation. I choose not to believe the worst.

As I mentioned earlier, two miracles have been directly attributed to his intercession. That definitely means that JPII is in heaven, therefore, a saint.

Many a sinner has become a saint.

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John Paul fought against the Nazis and helped Reagan free Poland and East Germany from the communists .

In addition John Paul helped and inspired millions of people throughout the world .

One life extremely well spent .

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He knew and punted to his successor to actually laicize the worst abuser in Church history just because of his prodigious fund raising capability:

A report from the Legionaries of Christ a Catholic order championed by Pope John Paul II has found that 175 minors were abused by priests since its inception, a third of whom were abused by notorious founder Marcel Maciel.
Key points:

• The order said the abuse happened over decades since its founding in 1941
• Pope John Paul II's secretary of state has resigned as dean of the college of cardinals
• Critics say the report is mere 'whitewashing' and does not reflect the true scale of abuse

When Maciel wasn't abusing seminarians he was raping women, fathering children and abusing some of his own children. JPII knew and did nothing:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-23/legionaries-of-christ-catholic-child-abuse-report-marcel-maciel/11824296

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I don't believe anything you post . You remain little more than virulent hater .

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You're a Russicans. You don't like facts.

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Your managers are a racist nut cases and only hope to destroy the reputation of a great man .

While hiding behind their little bot .

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I don't have any managers. Not surprised you won't criticize JP II's inaction. You're a Russican.

Cinque trying to show it's real

Such a Libtard