Frustration with church

3,274 Views | 50 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Waco1947
fadskier
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I have been attending church regularly since the fifth grade. I am not frustrated with church per se...actually frustrated with myself and my attitude towards church. I don't sing. After 10 minutes, my attention on the sermon is gone. We attend Sunday School which is a lesson and people share their opinions...and people really don't want to hear a dissenting opinion...they just want "church answers"and then we go to the service for another 30 minute or so lesson.

I am bored with it all. I go because I am supposed to go, not because I want to go. It's boring. In my 46 years of church attendance, I heard every story from the Bible and how it applies (or at least how the preacher thinks it applies.)

I often wonder what is wrong with me. I do not have that burning urge to go to church. This quarantine has made it worse. I have tried to watch some online churches (Stonebriar, Prestonwood, Gateway, Life Fellowship, etc) and they are all the same...band and singers, then a sermon.

I see/hear people say that "it was a belssing to be in church today and hear the word go God." I don't even know what that means. Can't we all read the Bible and hear the word of God?

I've become a cynic on church.
Salute the Marines - Joe Biden
LTbear
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Maybe try a new church
fadskier
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LTbear said:

Maybe try a new church
I listed the church that I have watched online and their service. They all seem the same.
Salute the Marines - Joe Biden
riflebear
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Thanks for the honesty Fad.

I think many people have been there.
I find when I stop looking for what I can get out of it and focus on what I can give back (not good at this) to Church it makes a lot more sense and I get a lot more out of it.

Also, ask yourself what in your personal life is taking your focus away from Christ/God/Church? What bad habits are you doing or TV/movies/porn might you be watching that is desensitizing you to what the Bible teaches or taking your focus away from your Faith.

I'm sure others can chime in but if none of this works or that isn't the issue then start praying and asking God for a passion, not just about church but about hearing his word and reading more. Something I need to do too.
LTbear
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fadskier said:

LTbear said:

Maybe try a new church
I listed the church that I have watched online and their service. They all seem the same.
Without knowing where you live/ what your options are, they can't all be the same. I understand though. The overwhelming majority do follow a particular model. Like a Starbucks chain - most people like it, but it's the same everywhere and bland. I'll take the quirky neighborhood coffee shop.
fadskier
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riflebear said:

Thanks for the honesty Fad.

I think many people have been there.
I find when I stop looking for what I can get out of it and focus on what I can give back (not good at this) to Church it makes a lot more sense and I get a lot more out of it.

Also, ask yourself what in your personal life is taking your focus away from Christ/God/Church? What bad habits are you doing or TV/movies/porn might you be watching that is desensitizing you to what the Bible teaches or taking your focus away from your Faith.

I'm sure others can chime in but if none of this works or that isn't the issue then start praying and asking God for a passion, not just about church but about hearing his word and reading more. Something I need to do too.
Thanks. Great answer. I think part of the problem is my personality. I am not an emotional person and much of worship is based on emotion. I also do not consider listening to someone for 30 minutes as worship. I do pray alot about this but prayer and it's effectiveness is a whole other issue that we could discuss.

In all honestly, I was saved at a revival where asking Jesus into your heart was an insurance policy against hell. I purchased the policy. Since my parents, did not attend church, it was up to me )with church assistance) to learn what I needed to do to become a "good Christian." I was told to be like Christ but since he was perfect, it sent me into a tailspin during puberty and young adult years. I tried to be perfect, but couldn't make it.

My approach to Christianity now is a logical one. I pray and attend church but God's gonna do what God's gonna do. I don't need to get emotional about it.
Salute the Marines - Joe Biden
Coke Bear
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First of all, I appreciate that would share that here. I'm sure many people have felt like this. I'll offer a couple of quick ideas/points:

As a father of three and a catechist to teens in junior high and senior high, I hear all the time, "mass is boring", "I don't get anything out of it", or "Why do I have to go to church?" I certainly understand your sentiment.

I try to explain is that we don't go to church to "get something out of it" or "to feel good." We go to church to follow the first and third commandments - "means that [followers] must worship and adore God alone because God is alone" and to "keep Holy the Lord's Day.

"Getting something out of it" or "good feeling" is a bonus.

Second, you might be going thru what some in the Catholic Church refer as the "dark night of the soul" a spiritual dryness. Mother Teresa experienced this for many DECADES. In her private journals (that she asked to be destroyed after she died, but fortunately they were not), she wrote about her feelings of God's absence and abandonment. If I remember correctly, she only experienced a relief from this one time during this period when she went to Rome for the canonization of one of the saints that she was close to.

The key to her suffering is that she NEVER gave up. She had the perseverance and fortitude to continue serving the poorest of the poor and gave dignity to all those around her, in spite of her lack of joy.

Finally, if you haven't done so already, talk to God about this. Maybe He has a reason for your struggle. I'm sure He would like to hear from you.

I don't expect this post will give you some great insight into your issue, but hopefully they can plant a small seed of encouragement to continue and maybe look at your situation with a different mindset.

I'll keep you in my prayers.






LTbear
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fadskier said:

riflebear said:

Thanks for the honesty Fad.

I think many people have been there.
I find when I stop looking for what I can get out of it and focus on what I can give back (not good at this) to Church it makes a lot more sense and I get a lot more out of it.

Also, ask yourself what in your personal life is taking your focus away from Christ/God/Church? What bad habits are you doing or TV/movies/porn might you be watching that is desensitizing you to what the Bible teaches or taking your focus away from your Faith.

I'm sure others can chime in but if none of this works or that isn't the issue then start praying and asking God for a passion, not just about church but about hearing his word and reading more. Something I need to do too.
Thanks. Great answer. I think part of the problem is my personality. I am not an emotional person and much of worship is based on emotion. I also do not consider listening to someone for 30 minutes as worship. I do pray alot about this but prayer and it's effectiveness is a whole other issue that we could discuss.

In all honestly, I was saved at a revival where asking Jesus into your heart was an insurance policy against hell. I purchased the policy. Since my parents, did not attend church, it was up to me )with church assistance) to learn what I needed to do to become a "good Christian." I was told to be like Christ but since he was perfect, it sent me into a tailspin during puberty and young adult years. I tried to be perfect, but couldn't make it.

My approach to Christianity now is a logical one. I pray and attend church but God's gonna do what God's gonna do. I don't need to get emotional about it.
To be honest, you make it sound as thought the faith has never been "real," for lack of a better word, for you. An insurance policy, what you were taught you needed to do, what your young brain grew up being told/ shown/ insinuated was the right way to go about things. Perhaps you should consider if the Christian faith really is what is right for you, if so what parts/ how to connect with it best, and if not, then what.
fadskier
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LTbear said:

fadskier said:

riflebear said:

Thanks for the honesty Fad.

I think many people have been there.
I find when I stop looking for what I can get out of it and focus on what I can give back (not good at this) to Church it makes a lot more sense and I get a lot more out of it.

Also, ask yourself what in your personal life is taking your focus away from Christ/God/Church? What bad habits are you doing or TV/movies/porn might you be watching that is desensitizing you to what the Bible teaches or taking your focus away from your Faith.

I'm sure others can chime in but if none of this works or that isn't the issue then start praying and asking God for a passion, not just about church but about hearing his word and reading more. Something I need to do too.
Thanks. Great answer. I think part of the problem is my personality. I am not an emotional person and much of worship is based on emotion. I also do not consider listening to someone for 30 minutes as worship. I do pray alot about this but prayer and it's effectiveness is a whole other issue that we could discuss.

In all honestly, I was saved at a revival where asking Jesus into your heart was an insurance policy against hell. I purchased the policy. Since my parents, did not attend church, it was up to me )with church assistance) to learn what I needed to do to become a "good Christian." I was told to be like Christ but since he was perfect, it sent me into a tailspin during puberty and young adult years. I tried to be perfect, but couldn't make it.

My approach to Christianity now is a logical one. I pray and attend church but God's gonna do what God's gonna do. I don't need to get emotional about it.
To be honest, you make it sound as thought the faith has never been "real," for lack of a better word, for you. An insurance policy, what you were taught you needed to do, what your young brain grew up being told/ shown/ insinuated was the right way to go about things. Perhaps you should consider if the Christian faith really is what is right for you, if so what parts/ how to connect with it best, and if not, then what.
Well, I don't want to go to hell and I have faith that I am saved...and I consistently confess my sins. I just don't have the "passion" to attend church that some people have...and I ask myself, what am I missing? I will always attend church because I am supposed to...might not always be Baptist.

While at Baylor, I tried FBC and Columbus and felt the same way. But then a friend invited me to St. Paul's. I remember the first time I took communion, I returned to my seat, knelt and cried. It felt real.

I have tried other Episcopal churches but they did some things that I thought were contrary to Biblical teachings ( in my opinion.)

Believe it or not, talking about it here, helps.
Salute the Marines - Joe Biden
LTbear
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fadskier said:

LTbear said:

fadskier said:

riflebear said:

Thanks for the honesty Fad.

I think many people have been there.
I find when I stop looking for what I can get out of it and focus on what I can give back (not good at this) to Church it makes a lot more sense and I get a lot more out of it.

Also, ask yourself what in your personal life is taking your focus away from Christ/God/Church? What bad habits are you doing or TV/movies/porn might you be watching that is desensitizing you to what the Bible teaches or taking your focus away from your Faith.

I'm sure others can chime in but if none of this works or that isn't the issue then start praying and asking God for a passion, not just about church but about hearing his word and reading more. Something I need to do too.
Thanks. Great answer. I think part of the problem is my personality. I am not an emotional person and much of worship is based on emotion. I also do not consider listening to someone for 30 minutes as worship. I do pray alot about this but prayer and it's effectiveness is a whole other issue that we could discuss.

In all honestly, I was saved at a revival where asking Jesus into your heart was an insurance policy against hell. I purchased the policy. Since my parents, did not attend church, it was up to me )with church assistance) to learn what I needed to do to become a "good Christian." I was told to be like Christ but since he was perfect, it sent me into a tailspin during puberty and young adult years. I tried to be perfect, but couldn't make it.

My approach to Christianity now is a logical one. I pray and attend church but God's gonna do what God's gonna do. I don't need to get emotional about it.
To be honest, you make it sound as thought the faith has never been "real," for lack of a better word, for you. An insurance policy, what you were taught you needed to do, what your young brain grew up being told/ shown/ insinuated was the right way to go about things. Perhaps you should consider if the Christian faith really is what is right for you, if so what parts/ how to connect with it best, and if not, then what.
Well, I don't want to go to hell and I have faith that I am saved...and I consistently confess my sins. I just don't have the "passion" to attend church that some people have...and I ask myself, what am I missing? I will always attend church because I am supposed to...might not always be Baptist.

While at Baylor, I tried FBC and Columbus and felt the same way. But then a friend invited me to St. Paul's. I remember the first time I took communion, I returned to my seat, knelt and cried. It felt real.

I have tried other Episcopal churches but they did some things that I thought were contrary to Biblical teachings ( in my opinion.)

Believe it or not, talking about it here, helps.
I believe it. I'm sure you'll find many, many church-goers have felt the same as you (thought the vast, overwhelming majority would likely never admit it, because they might feel it was something "bad" to admit).
Flaming Moderate
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I have felt the same way. My wife was reared Catholic, I was reared traditional Southern Baptist. Neither one of use are fulfilled by the identical black box concert halls and "worship" that is 30 minutes of concert followed by an impotent sermon most likely plagiarized from a mega-church pastor. Not to mention the fact that people dress like they just rolled out of bed.

However, as all the seminars and consultants tell them, the focus is on the children, and our church has a really good teen and pre-teen program, so we suffer because our kids continue to grow in their faith.

I have what I think is an amazing vision for a church ... but I am about the only one. There are a few but not many.

I am with you though that personally the "seeker sensitive" format does nothing for me - in fact I could argue it is unbiblical.

Rant over. Glad to not be thinking about Wuhan.
curtpenn
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fadskier said:

I have been attending church regularly since the fifth grade. I am not frustrated with church per se...actually frustrated with myself and my attitude towards church. I don't sing. After 10 minutes, my attention on the sermon is gone. We attend Sunday School which is a lesson and people share their opinions...and people really don't want to hear a dissenting opinion...they just want "church answers"and then we go to the service for another 30 minute or so lesson.

I am bored with it all. I go because I am supposed to go, not because I want to go. It's boring. In my 46 years of church attendance, I heard every story from the Bible and how it applies (or at least how the preacher thinks it applies.)

I often wonder what is wrong with me. I do not have that burning urge to go to church. This quarantine has made it worse. I have tried to watch some online churches (Stonebriar, Prestonwood, Gateway, Life Fellowship, etc) and they are all the same...band and singers, then a sermon.

I see/hear people say that "it was a belssing to be in church today and hear the word go God." I don't even know what that means. Can't we all read the Bible and hear the word of God?

I've become a cynic on church.
I'm 65 now. Born and raised Southern Baptist. Son, son-in-law, and grandson of Baptist deacons. Spent a couple of summers in my college days serving as interim Youth & Music Director. Met my starter wife at Baylor and current wife at Prestonwood in 1982 before it was so mega. So, yeah, pretty Baptist. All that said, our kids started attending a neighborhood Episcopal school in the mid-'90s. We discovered the liturgy and specifically, the Book of Common Prayer spoke to us both in unanticipated ways. We left Park Cities Baptist in '97 and were confirmed in the Episcopal Church. I hate the direction of the national church, but can't imagine "doing" church any other way now. The focus of Sunday is on worship and the Eucharist. Don't care anymore if there's a sermon or not. Just love the liturgy. Our parish has both traditional and more contemporary services available live streaming on FB. You can find some links to recent services here:

https://incarnation.org/digital-worship/

Might also mention I was in the A Capella Choir for several years at Baylor and have always loved serious choral music. The catalyst for leaving Park Cities was the shift to more contemporary music (even back then) and the upcoming Incarnation Choir tour the following summer which included residencies at Westminster and Chichester. Yeah, I mainly left because of the music - lol. Cannot stand more than a minute or two of contemporary Christian music. Ironically, I spent a lot of time in college with a guitar doing that sort of thing. Who knew?
BaylorFTW
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Fadskier, I don't believe you have to go to church every Sunday. Some things that might help you regain your interest in church could include:

  • If you know the bible that well, why don't you become a street preacher and evangelize to others?
  • Another alternative could be to debate atheists and other non Christians. This would give you a chance to practice some apologetics and promote the faith while also learning some new things about why others think the way they do.
  • Learn Greek and or Hebrew and read the original texts.
  • Write a book about what you know to help others.
  • Do charity work instead like working in a soup kitchen or going on a mission trip. This can help you get beyond your own selfish thoughts and change your perspective.
  • Read or listen to audio books by Timothy Keller who tends to be more logically focused. For that matter, start reading the writings of the early Church fathers.
Mitch Blood Green
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Flaming Moderate
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curtpenn said:

fadskier said:

I have been attending church regularly since the fifth grade. I am not frustrated with church per se...actually frustrated with myself and my attitude towards church. I don't sing. After 10 minutes, my attention on the sermon is gone. We attend Sunday School which is a lesson and people share their opinions...and people really don't want to hear a dissenting opinion...they just want "church answers"and then we go to the service for another 30 minute or so lesson.

I am bored with it all. I go because I am supposed to go, not because I want to go. It's boring. In my 46 years of church attendance, I heard every story from the Bible and how it applies (or at least how the preacher thinks it applies.)

I often wonder what is wrong with me. I do not have that burning urge to go to church. This quarantine has made it worse. I have tried to watch some online churches (Stonebriar, Prestonwood, Gateway, Life Fellowship, etc) and they are all the same...band and singers, then a sermon.

I see/hear people say that "it was a belssing to be in church today and hear the word go God." I don't even know what that means. Can't we all read the Bible and hear the word of God?

I've become a cynic on church.
I'm 65 now. Born and raised Southern Baptist. Son, son-in-law, and grandson of Baptist deacons. Spent a couple of summers in my college days serving as interim Youth & Music Director. Met my starter wife at Baylor and current wife at Prestonwood in 1982 before it was so mega. So, yeah, pretty Baptist. All that said, our kids started attending a neighborhood Episcopal school in the mid-'90s. We discovered the liturgy and specifically, the Book of Common Prayer spoke to us both in unanticipated ways. We left Park Cities Baptist in '97 and were confirmed in the Episcopal Church. I hate the direction of the national church, but can't imagine "doing" church any other way now. The focus of Sunday is on worship and the Eucharist. Don't care anymore if there's a sermon or not. Just love the liturgy. Our parish has both traditional and more contemporary services available live streaming on FB. You can find some links to recent services here:

https://incarnation.org/digital-worship/

Might also mention I was in the A Capella Choir for several years at Baylor and have always loved serious choral music. The catalyst for leaving Park Cities was the shift to more contemporary music (even back then) and the upcoming Incarnation Choir tour the following summer which included residencies at Westminster and Chichester. Yeah, I mainly left because of the music - lol. Cannot stand more than a minute or two of contemporary Christian music. Ironically, I spent a lot of time in college with a guitar doing that sort of thing. Who knew?
Is there a traditional Baptist Church in Dallas besides Park Cities? I have not been to Prestonwood, but I assume it's fully swallowed the concert-entertainment model.
Redbrickbear
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fadskier said:

I have been attending church regularly since the fifth grade. I am not frustrated with church per se...actually frustrated with myself and my attitude towards church. I don't sing. After 10 minutes, my attention on the sermon is gone. We attend Sunday School which is a lesson and people share their opinions...and people really don't want to hear a dissenting opinion...they just want "church answers"and then we go to the service for another 30 minute or so lesson.

I am bored with it all. I go because I am supposed to go, not because I want to go. It's boring. In my 46 years of church attendance, I heard every story from the Bible and how it applies (or at least how the preacher thinks it applies.)

I often wonder what is wrong with me. I do not have that burning urge to go to church. This quarantine has made it worse. I have tried to watch some online churches (Stonebriar, Prestonwood, Gateway, Life Fellowship, etc) and they are all the same...band and singers, then a sermon.

I see/hear people say that "it was a blessing to be in church today and hear the word go God." I don't even know what that means. Can't we all read the Bible and hear the word of God?

I've become a cynic on church.
Been having the same problem.

I am still certainly theologically protestant (Baptist)...but have come to appreciate Eastern Orthodoxy and their liturgy far more.

I used to think it was just empty made up ritual or the sake of ritualism.

But the ritual actually allows you to focus on the ancient prayers and hymns and "loose" yourself in the rhythm...very much like meditation...except you are meditating on Christ.

The standing then kneeling then standing again...the various prostrations and crossing of oneself also become physical and even dare I say "athletic"...I watched and did the motions during an orthodox Easter service once and was sore after it was over...and i work out regularly.
Oldbear83
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There's no doubt, sadly, that a lot of churches don't know Jesus any better than Lenin did. Between heresies like the prosperity 'gospel' and social justice cults, a lot of churches have no grounding in sound doctrine, and so they follow a false idol.

But it's been that way for a long time, and finding a real place where you can worship the Living God and grow in faith has always been difficult for a lot of people.

I knew a pastor many years ago, who checked the attendance every week after church, and knew the regulars so well that he could tell if they suddenly missed a service and he'd go visit to see if they were sick or otherwise needed help. This, in a church with 5,000 members!

Sadly, I bring him up because while he was uncommon even in his day, I don't think there are half as many now as before. Most 'pastors' can't do more than give sermons and lead a bible study. That means they don't know what to do with real crises of faith and hope, and the Church is lesser for that.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Canada2017
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I do not watch Mass online......but do miss attending .

Enjoy the solemnity of Catholic Mass, the tradition, the message .

It's not an entertainment hour ...it's serious .

However we are exceptionally lucky to have 2 outstanding priests , a great congregation and the most beautiful Church I have ever seen.....for a smaller community.
EatMoreSalmon
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Many good words in the answers here. I find that when I begin to neglect my own personal Bible reading and study, I begin to feel what you speak. When I am keeping my own personal study, listening, and looking for God around me, I am much more spiritually full.

Others are right, also. If you are keeping your daily spiritual food going, you are well equipped to give. Maybe it's time to start teaching a class and applying what you would like to see in a Bible study. That can become a really great ministry to a few or many.
Midnight Rider
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There are plenty of good churches out there. Look around. Shop around. Try some different denominations.

Find a pastor who appeals to your intellect instead of scaring you about going to hell if you don't walk the aisle. Believe it or not, there are some out there.
fadskier
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BaylorFTW said:

Fadskier, I don't believe you have to go to church every Sunday. Some things that might help you regain your interest in church could include:

  • If you know the bible that well, why don't you become a street preacher and evangelize to others?
  • Another alternative could be to debate atheists and other non Christians. This would give you a chance to practice some apologetics and promote the faith while also learning some new things about why others think the way they do.
  • Learn Greek and or Hebrew and read the original texts.
  • Write a book about what you know to help others.
  • Do charity work instead like working in a soup kitchen or going on a mission trip. This can help you get beyond your own selfish thoughts and change your perspective.
  • Read or listen to audio books by Timothy Keller who tends to be more logically focused. For that matter, start reading the writings of the early Church fathers.

Any recommendations on a Keller book?
Salute the Marines - Joe Biden
Bearitto
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Fad,

I've found this in various aspects of life. CS Lewis does what I think is a pretty good job of addressing the feelings you are experiencing in the Screwtape letters. Here is the chapter about "The law of undulation". It's a senior demon writing to his junior tempter nephew.



// The Screwtape Letters, Chapter 8

My dear Wormwood,

So you 'have great hopes that the patient's religious phase is dying away', have you? I always thought the Training College had gone to pieces since they put old Subgob at the head of it, and now I am sure. Has no one every told you about the law of Undulation?
Humans are amphibians-- half spirit and half animal. (The Enemy's determination to produce such a revolting hybrid was one of the things that determined Our Father to withdraw his support from Him.) As spirits they belong to the eternal world, but as animals they inhabit time. This means that while their spirit can be directed to an eternal object, their bodies, passions, and imaginations are in continual change, for as to be in time means to change. Their nearest approach to constancy, therefore, is undulation-- the repeated return to a level from which they repeatedly fall back, a series of troughs and peaks. If you had watched your patient carefully you would have seen this undulation in every department of his life-- his interest in his work, his affection for his friends, his physical appetites, all go up and down. As long as he lives on earth periods of emotional and bodily richness and liveliness will alternate with periods of numbness and poverty. The dryness and dullness through which your patient is now going are not, as you fondly suppose, your workmanship; they are merely a natural phenomenon which will do us no good unless you make a good use of it.
To decide what the best use of it is, you must ask what use the Enemy wants to make of it, and then do the opposite. Now it may surprise you to learn that in His efforts to get permanent possession of a soul, He relies on the troughs even more than on the peaks; some of His special favourites have gone through longer and deeper troughs than anyone else. The reason is this. To us a human is primarily food; our aim is the absorption of its will into ours, the increase of our own area of selfhood at its expense. But the obedience which the Enemy demands of men is quite a different thing. One must face the fact that all the talk about His love for men, and His service being perfect freedom, is not (as one would gladly believe) mere propaganda, but an appalling truth. He really does want to fill the universe with a lot of loathsome little replicas of Himself-- creatures whose life, on its miniature scale, will be qualitatively like His own, not because he has absorbed them but because their wills freely conform to His. We want cattle who can finally become food; He wants servants who can finally become sons. We want to suck in,, He wants to give out. We are empty and would be filled; He is full and flows over. Our war aim is a world in which Our Father Below has drawn all other beings into himself: the Enemy wants a world full of beings united to Him but still distinct.
And that is where the troughs come in. You must have often wondered why the Enemy does not make more use of His power to be sensibly present to human souls in any degree He chooses and at any moment. But you now see that the Irresistible and the Indisputable are the two weapons which the very nature of His scheme forbids Him to use. Merely to override a human will (as His felt presence in any but the faintest and most mitigated degree would certainly do) would be for Him useless. He cannot ravish. He can only woo. For His ignoble idea is to eat the cake and have it; the creatures are to be one with Him, but yet themselves; merely to cancel them, or assimilate them, will not serve. He is prepared to do a little overriding at the beginning. He will set them off with communications of His presence which, though faint, seem great to them, with emotional sweetness, and easy conquest over temptation. Sooner or later He withdraws, if not in fact, at least from their conscious experience, all those supports and incentives. He leaves the creature to stand up on its own legs-- to carry out from the will alone duties which have lost all relish. It is during such trough periods, much more than during the peak periods, that it is growing into the sort of creature He wants it to be. Hence the prayers offered in the state of dryness are those which please Him best. We can drag our patients along by continual tempting, because we design them only for the table, and the more their will is interfered with the better. He cannot 'tempt' to virtual as we do to vice. He wants them to learn to walk and must therefore take away His hand; and if only the will to walk is really there He is pleased even with their stumbles. Do not be deceived, Wormwood. Our cause is never more in danger than when a human, no longer desiring, but still intending, to do our Enemy's will, looks round upon a universe from which every trace of Him seems to have vanished, and asks why he has been forsaken, and still obeys.
But of course the troughs afford opportunities to our side also. Next week I will give you some hints on how to exploit them,

You affectionate uncle
Screwtape

BaylorFTW
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fadskier said:

BaylorFTW said:

Fadskier, I don't believe you have to go to church every Sunday. Some things that might help you regain your interest in church could include:

  • If you know the bible that well, why don't you become a street preacher and evangelize to others?
  • Another alternative could be to debate atheists and other non Christians. This would give you a chance to practice some apologetics and promote the faith while also learning some new things about why others think the way they do.
  • Learn Greek and or Hebrew and read the original texts.
  • Write a book about what you know to help others.
  • Do charity work instead like working in a soup kitchen or going on a mission trip. This can help you get beyond your own selfish thoughts and change your perspective.
  • Read or listen to audio books by Timothy Keller who tends to be more logically focused. For that matter, start reading the writings of the early Church fathers.

Any recommendations on a Keller book?
I enjoyed "The Reason for God: Belief In An Age of Skepticism." (https://www.amazon.com/Reason-God-Belief-Age-Skepticism/dp/B001QCZTXY/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=timothy+keller&qid=1585795422&s=books&sr=1-4) I currently am listening to his "Walking With God through Pain and Suffering" and find it thought provoking as he tackles the complicated subject of suffering. https://www.amazon.com/Walking-God-through-Pain-Suffering/dp/B00FJDVQ8S/ref=sr_1_15?dchild=1&keywords=timothy+keller&qid=1585795954&s=books&sr=1-15

I was thinking you might also consider Vishal Mangalwaadi's book "The Book That Made Your World." He is from India and talks about Christianity with Eastern eyes. He compares Christianity with Hinduism and how differences in beliefs led to different behaviors in those societies. I found this gave me a unique perspective that I would not have had any knowledge about otherwise. https://www.amazon.com/Book-That-Made-Your-World/dp/B07R95S8TH/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=vishal+mangalwadi&qid=1585796002&s=audible&sr=1-1

None of the above are affiliate links.
bearassnekkid
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fadskier said:

I have been attending church regularly since the fifth grade. I am not frustrated with church per se...actually frustrated with myself and my attitude towards church. I don't sing. After 10 minutes, my attention on the sermon is gone. We attend Sunday School which is a lesson and people share their opinions...and people really don't want to hear a dissenting opinion...they just want "church answers"and then we go to the service for another 30 minute or so lesson.

I am bored with it all. I go because I am supposed to go, not because I want to go. It's boring. In my 46 years of church attendance, I heard every story from the Bible and how it applies (or at least how the preacher thinks it applies.)

I often wonder what is wrong with me. I do not have that burning urge to go to church. This quarantine has made it worse. I have tried to watch some online churches (Stonebriar, Prestonwood, Gateway, Life Fellowship, etc) and they are all the same...band and singers, then a sermon.

I see/hear people say that "it was a belssing to be in church today and hear the word go God." I don't even know what that means. Can't we all read the Bible and hear the word of God?

I've become a cynic on church.
Awesome honesty, man. I've been there. Many different times, actually. Bearrito's passage from Screwtape Letters is perfect. Think on it.

Speaking of C.S Lewis, and since you asked about books, I would read Lewis' Mere Chrisitanity. If you've read it before, read it again. With a highlighter this time.

As for book's by Keller, read Reason for God and Prodigal God. Another good one while we're in lockdown is John Eldredge's Wild at Heart.

With regard to church specifically, I can relate. My recommendation is to find a good small group at whatever church you're at and do deeper community with some folks. Or maybe a men's bible study where you can be real and honest about stuff. Not just have to give the "sunday school" answers. I've often though that a men's group where guys could express doubts, debate theological issues, devil's advocate different topics, talk about struggles, etc, would be a really spiritually healthy thing. Heck, maybe I'll start one. If you're in north Dallas area you're invited.

Keep on keepin' on, and ask God specifically to walk closely with you, and reveal more about Himself, and to increase your faith. Talk to Him while you're driving, and randomly throughout the day. I'll be praying for you, brother.
BUgolfbear
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Wife and I attend large, Southern Baptist Church - our Bible Fellowship class is what keeps us there due to the community and interaction that takes place in our class- we do "life" together. Older daughter attends a Bible church because she feels more connected there. Youngest daughter began attending St. Peters Catholic Church when she was a senior at Baylor - again, she loved the sense of community and the ritual of the Catholic mass and converted to Catholicism. The point is: each of my family has their own, personal faith in Jesus Christ and attends a church that meets their individual needs and desire for community. Praying you find the same - totally agree with recommendation of C.S. Lewis's writings.
Waco1947
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fadskier said:

I have been attending church regularly since the fifth grade. I am not frustrated with church per se...actually frustrated with myself and my attitude towards church. I don't sing. After 10 minutes, my attention on the sermon is gone. We attend Sunday School which is a lesson and people share their opinions...and people really don't want to hear a dissenting opinion...they just want "church answers"and then we go to the service for another 30 minute or so lesson.

I am bored with it all. I go because I am supposed to go, not because I want to go. It's boring. In my 46 years of church attendance, I heard every story from the Bible and how it applies (or at least how the preacher thinks it applies.)

I often wonder what is wrong with me. I do not have that burning urge to go to church. This quarantine has made it worse. I have tried to watch some online churches (Stonebriar, Prestonwood, Gateway, Life Fellowship, etc) and they are all the same...band and singers, then a sermon.

I see/hear people say that "it was a belssing to be in church today and hear the word go God." I don't even know what that means. Can't we all read the Bible and hear the word of God?

I've become a cynic on church.
Thank you for your honest, heartfelt reflection.
Waco1947
fadskier
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I purchased Keller's book on Prayer last night and began reading...
Salute the Marines - Joe Biden
SSadler
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Find a "church" that ;meets and shares its witness outside contemporary walls. You may have to walk thru a set of walls to find a bulletin board or pamphlet, but find someplace where "church" happens apart from sermon and song.

Those places and Christfollowers "churching" there are all around . One open to the Spirit (which you may or may sense or believe in) is working way ahead of you.

EG. "Habitat for Humanity" is in the phone book. Volunteer to stack lumber at t's lumberyard; then ask around where the various houses are being built. Choose one and take a hammer. At the end of the day you'll hear of the next house to be built. Make it two in a row for you. Help build several, even if you can't work all day of construction, go sweat for a few hours. My experience is, most Habitat volunteers are somehow, to some degree, for some reason. looking for an experience of "Church" outside the normal churchbuilsing.

You at least will find something in common with the fellow workers. You might even have conversations about what it means to "be church ourside church walls."

grace for your journey
Waco1947
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SSadler said:

Find a "church" that ;meets and shares its witness outside contemporary walls. You may have to walk thru a set of walls to find a bulletin board or pamphlet, but find someplace where "church" happens apart from sermon and song.

Those places and Christfollowers "churching" there are all around . One open to the Spirit (which you may or may sense or believe in) is working way ahead of you.

EG. "Habitat for Humanity" is in the phone book. Volunteer to stack lumber at t's lumberyard; then ask around where the various houses are being built. Choose one and take a hammer. At the end of the day you'll hear of the next house to be built. Make it two in a row for you. Help build several, even if you can't work all day of construction, go sweat for a few hours. My experience is, most Habitat volunteers are somehow, to some degree, for some reason. looking for an experience of "Church" outside the normal churchbuilsing.

You at least will find something in common with the fellow workers. You might even have conversations about what it means to "be church ourside church walls."

grace for your journey

Thank you for your witness about HFH. It is, indeed, a great place for ministry, spiritual growth, and church like fellowship,
Waco1947
Waco1947
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Canada2017 said:

I do not watch Mass online......but do miss attending .

Enjoy the solemnity of Catholic Mass, the tradition, the message .

It's not an entertainment hour ...it's serious .

However we are exceptionally lucky to have 2 outstanding priests , a great congregation and the most beautiful Church I have ever seen.....for a smaller community.
Catholics know solemnity.. I am always moved as the host is lifted to be consecrated. Christ becomes present in my heart. .
Waco1947
J.R.
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Flaming Moderate said:

curtpenn said:

fadskier said:

I have been attending church regularly since the fifth grade. I am not frustrated with church per se...actually frustrated with myself and my attitude towards church. I don't sing. After 10 minutes, my attention on the sermon is gone. We attend Sunday School which is a lesson and people share their opinions...and people really don't want to hear a dissenting opinion...they just want "church answers"and then we go to the service for another 30 minute or so lesson.

I am bored with it all. I go because I am supposed to go, not because I want to go. It's boring. In my 46 years of church attendance, I heard every story from the Bible and how it applies (or at least how the preacher thinks it applies.)

I often wonder what is wrong with me. I do not have that burning urge to go to church. This quarantine has made it worse. I have tried to watch some online churches (Stonebriar, Prestonwood, Gateway, Life Fellowship, etc) and they are all the same...band and singers, then a sermon.

I see/hear people say that "it was a belssing to be in church today and hear the word go God." I don't even know what that means. Can't we all read the Bible and hear the word of God?

I've become a cynic on church.
I'm 65 now. Born and raised Southern Baptist. Son, son-in-law, and grandson of Baptist deacons. Spent a couple of summers in my college days serving as interim Youth & Music Director. Met my starter wife at Baylor and current wife at Prestonwood in 1982 before it was so mega. So, yeah, pretty Baptist. All that said, our kids started attending a neighborhood Episcopal school in the mid-'90s. We discovered the liturgy and specifically, the Book of Common Prayer spoke to us both in unanticipated ways. We left Park Cities Baptist in '97 and were confirmed in the Episcopal Church. I hate the direction of the national church, but can't imagine "doing" church any other way now. The focus of Sunday is on worship and the Eucharist. Don't care anymore if there's a sermon or not. Just love the liturgy. Our parish has both traditional and more contemporary services available live streaming on FB. You can find some links to recent services here:

https://incarnation.org/digital-worship/

Might also mention I was in the A Capella Choir for several years at Baylor and have always loved serious choral music. The catalyst for leaving Park Cities was the shift to more contemporary music (even back then) and the upcoming Incarnation Choir tour the following summer which included residencies at Westminster and Chichester. Yeah, I mainly left because of the music - lol. Cannot stand more than a minute or two of contemporary Christian music. Ironically, I spent a lot of time in college with a guitar doing that sort of thing. Who knew?
Is there a traditional Baptist Church in Dallas besides Park Cities? I have not been to Prestonwood, but I assume it's fully swallowed the concert-entertainment model.
Not that I'm aware of. I was a member of PCBC for 20yrs, but left about 10yrs ago and am a member at Park Cities Presbyterian. (more conservative) I also attend Highland Park Presbyterian and like it also.
Canada2017
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God alone knows what's in the heart of a semi literate 'minister' who has spent years fervently advocating abortion.




Midnight Rider
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Canada2017 said:

God alone knows what's in the heart of a semi literate 'minister' who has spent years fervently advocating abortion.



You are absolutely right. God alone knows, and not the denizens of an internet message board, who claim to know.

Bearitto
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Midnight Rider said:

Canada2017 said:

God alone knows what's in the heart of a semi literate 'minister' who has spent years fervently advocating abortion.





You are absolutely right. God alone knows, and not the denizens of an internet message board, who claim to know.




There are diagnostic criteria available:

Matthew 7:15-20 New King James Version (NKJV)

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
BaylorFTW
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fadskier said:

I purchased Keller's book on Prayer last night and began reading...
Let me know what you think of it when the time is right.
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