Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

---

So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

---

Some will shut down..the ones that are debt loaded.

Other businesses with cash reserves will fill in their niche very quickly......and make even bigger profits.

That's how it always works. Those that manage their debt load usually get ahead in the long run . Those that can't.....lose eventually .



Sorry guy...but there are always other jobs.

Choices.


But dying is a one way street....no overs.

LTbear said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Stay strong my friend. Have a fine bottle of wine with the Mrs. on the back porch and enjoy a fine cigar. Distance yourself from the rest of the lepers connected to civilization. This too, shall pass.

---

Unless Remdesivir is somehow mass produced and distributed throughout the country within the next 90 days ....the view from your porch is going to be reminiscent of the 1918 pandemic .

Best estimates now ( without a vaccine or widely available treatment ) are a total of 400,000 to 500,000 dead by March 1, 2021.

And like the 1918 pandemic for every person who dies...at least two survivors suffer long lasting or even permanent damage .

BTW been to a leper colony; was about 15 years ago .

C-19 is far more contagious than leprosy .

---

Probably not. Initial projections were 400,000 dead in Dallas county before now. Well, that never happened and it wont.

---

I don't get how people don't understand that, for whatever the system, modeling power and accuracy increases exponentially with available data from said system. Yet people continue to cite the earliest plausible efforts to constrain future patterns as though that's even remotely as authoritative as refined models made months down the road.

---

One reason it's not believable is due to how the information is presented.

Example (just using 400,000 since it's the number above): Big graph that shows 400,000 dead by June. Oops not correct. Big graph that shows 400,000 dead by September. Oops not correct. Big graph that shows 400,000 dead by December. Oops. January. Oops. February. It just shows they are obstinately sticking to 400,000 dead. Duh. With enough time passing, you'll eventually hit your projection.

Each time pushing the date. It's misleading. The graph doesn't show actuals in comparison to projected. It starts fresh each time.

Graphs are used for visual effect. Expert witnesses use them ALL THE TIME for juries because they help with the story we want to convey.

Imagine if this were a financial projection, and I was presenting projected income for a new investment. I could claim I was going to make $1 million by the end of the year. Oops I was wrong. I'm going to make $1 million total by the end of the second year. Oops I was wrong. I'm going to make $1 million by the end of the third year. Oops I was wrong. I'm going to make $1 million total by the end of the fourth year.

It's ridiculous.

LOL Yes, I'd be getting better information with each projection. That's obviously true but fairly meaningless to how it makes people feel. After all, as long as I'm making money (or COVID deaths are occurring), I'll eventually hit my $1,000,000 target. Don't think my investors would be happy if it takes 5+ years, but hey my projection would have been correct.

Timing matters.

We have invested more $, time, and emotional energy into COVID than anything else in the history of the world (I think it's been like 4x WW2 so far for U.S.), and much of it was based on the projected death count.

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

---

So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

---

Some will shut down..the ones that are debt loaded.

Other businesses with cash reserves will fill in their niche very quickly......and make even bigger profits.

That's how it always works. Those that manage their debt load usually get ahead in the long run . Those that can't.....lose eventually .



Sorry guy...but there are always other jobs.

Choices.


But dying is a one way street....no overs.

---

You might want to research how many people died during the depression because that's what your scenario would lead to.

As flippant as you've accused me of being, you've been awfully flippant about other people's financial ruin. It's easy to be flippant when you've got a cash reserve. As you well know, most Americans are not so lucky.

You're scenario is unworkable and absurd. Thank god no reasonable politician would allow such authoritarian policy here.

I choose not to live my life in fear.

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

---

So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

---

Some will shut down..the ones that are debt loaded.

Other businesses with cash reserves will fill in their niche very quickly......and make even bigger profits.

That's how it always works. Those that manage their debt load usually get ahead in the long run . Those that can't.....lose eventually .



Sorry guy...but there are always other jobs.

Choices.


But dying is a one way street....no overs.

---

You might want to research how many people died during the depression because that's what your scenario would lead to.

As flippant as you've accused me of being, you've been awfully flippant about other people's financial ruin. It's easy to be flippant when you've got a cash reserve. As you well know, most Americans are not so lucky.

You're scenario is unworkable and absurd. Thank god no reasonable politician would allow such authoritarian policy here.

I choose not to live my life in fear.

---

You have expressed your fear of unemployment and it's priority over peoples lives since the beginning of this pandemic .

As the death count reaches a quarter of a million , nothing has changed. Your job is far more important to you than peoples lives .

And although many people feel the same ....it should be obvious to everyone.....

jobs can be replaced but dead.....is DEAD.

rudylaw said:

---

JCWortsman said:

---

rudylaw said:

---

Effectiveness of masks would increase severely if, oh I don't know, people actually wore them and wore them correctly. 15 minutes of mask-wearing a day is just too hard for 80% of Americans though. Can't be inconvenienced in the slightest.

---

80% of Americans, really? I work in a grocery store and I would say 99% of people are wearing their masks, and at least 80% correctly. Now are they properly removing them, cleaning them, not touching them? Who knows, but I think you're being a little down on society.

I don't think masks hurt the situation at all, but I don't think that masks or social distancing are the magic pill. Even a lockdown isn't going to make this go away. We will hole up for 4-6 weeks and all the sudden cases will spike again.

It will have to run it's course. Those who want to avoid it at all costs can, but there will be costs. Those who want to live life will probably get it, and that may also have its costs. There isn't an answer and to pretend that anyone has one and that we need daddy government to make decisions for us is just wrong.

---

Inside stores, sure. I'm talking about walking down crowded sidewalks or other places where keeping 6' of distance is next to impossible. 8 out of every 10 people I see walking in a busy neighborhood have no intention of wearing a mask. Studies have shown that if everyone wore a mask in these few situations, literally 10-20 minutes a day, chances of spread greatly reduce. Those are the facts. So, yeah, sorry if I'm down on society since the great majority of people are either "so over it" or believe wearing a mask infringes on their freedoms or something.

---

We haven't dined inside a restaurant since March, but we order takeout at least a couple of times a week from various restaurants. At basically every one of those restaurants, we see people standing around outside or walking in or out without masks -- constantly. Last night while we waited less than 10 minutes for our to-go order, I counted 7 people walking in or out of the restaurant without masks on. I would estimate roughly half of those we saw coming in or out didn't have masks. The last time I went to the grocery store (which, thanks to my wife, is not often), I counted 4 people that didn't have masks on, which was probably 25% of people.

Both of those scenarios line up with what I see basically everywhere.

Coincidentally, 100% of the people I saw without masks were middle-aged white males. Funny how that works.

The number of idiotic posts we've had on this board alone mocking people for wearing masks outside in places where there are other people walking by is a prime example of the mentality of some on mask-wearing. It's either the ****ing idiots that firmly believe they don't help at all or the ****ing *******s who think it infringes on their rights -- and both are a problem.

If you actually believe masks make that big of a difference, then you shouldn't go near those restaurants. Have your food delivered. It's a small price to pay for your life.

And it makes zero difference if people are wearing masks outside a restaurant if they don't need to wear them inside a restaurant. The inside air circulates. The outside air doesn't.

And the number who don't wear a mask is truly few and far between in situations that matter. Personally, I wear a mask everywhere practical and/or required.

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

agreed

I will be okay. I don't have much savings, as we're undercapitalized and COVID has stretched our working capital to the brink, but could probably bounce back in the event of worst case scenario. However, I think you guys are underestimating the importance of $ to the middle and lower class. Losing jobs and having no prospects when so many businesses go under will destroy people's lives. It goes so far beyond what Canada is implying. Suicides, murder, violence, homelessness, addiction, abuse, lack of medicine and therapy, are all consequences of having no money. When you put odds to it, many people would choose the risk of death over the risk of those things.

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

---

So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

---

Some will shut down..the ones that are debt loaded.

Other businesses with cash reserves will fill in their niche very quickly......and make even bigger profits.

That's how it always works. Those that manage their debt load usually get ahead in the long run . Those that can't.....lose eventually .



Sorry guy...but there are always other jobs.

Choices.


But dying is a one way street....no overs.

---

You might want to research how many people died during the depression because that's what your scenario would lead to.

As flippant as you've accused me of being, you've been awfully flippant about other people's financial ruin. It's easy to be flippant when you've got a cash reserve. As you well know, most Americans are not so lucky.

You're scenario is unworkable and absurd. Thank god no reasonable politician would allow such authoritarian policy here.

I choose not to live my life in fear.

---

You have expressed your fear of unemployment and it's priority over peoples lives since the beginning of this pandemic .

As the death count reaches a quarter of a million , nothing has changed. Your job is far more important to you than peoples lives .

And although many people feel the same ....it should be obvious to everyone.....

jobs can be replaced but dead.....is DEAD.

---

While it is understandable, I think the focus from folks who want to downplay this is too much on the death count itself. What ought to be added to that are those, and there are many, just watch your local news, people whose health, long-term has been destroyed. I have seen many stories of amputations, likely chronic heart conditions that were not present before COVID and greatly diminished lung capacity affecting activity, just to name a few. That is what is really scary, because it is affecting people in the prime of life that had no underlying conditions and who will suffer with this for the remainder of their lifetime.

What also seems to be ignored is what this is doing to the doctors and nurses that have been battling this thing for months on end. These people who we depend on for pre-COVID emergency medical needs are collectively close to the breaking point. Many have died trying to help others. Depression has set in with many. Yet we have no problem just forcing more people their way. All most of us are being asked to do is wear a mask properly and avoid large crowds and keep some distance from people when we are with others outside our family. We don't have to close businesses to do that, but by not doing it we can cause businesses to suffer because of deceased clientele as those who feel at risk just stay away and go somewhere else where such measures are actually being taken.

fubar said:

---

Truth.

160,000+ new cases in the United States. Today. El Paso the canary in the coal mine.

It's not political. Wear a mask in public, and for the love of all that is holy, maintain social distance. A vaccine is on the way. Do your very best to make sure that you and yours are here to reap the benefit.

---

What do you mean by "el Paso the canary in the coal mine"?

BellCountyBear said:

---

fubar said:

---

Truth.

160,000+ new cases in the United States. Today. El Paso the canary in the coal mine.

It's not political. Wear a mask in public, and for the love of all that is holy, maintain social distance. A vaccine is on the way. Do your very best to make sure that you and yours are here to reap the benefit.

---

What do you mean by "el Paso the canary in the coal mine"?

---

El Paso hospitals have been overrun. I'll post one link, but feel free to google and see what you find.

https://www.businessinsider.com/el-paso-mayor-dee-margo-discusses-surge-in-covid-19-2020-11

Would not be surprised if the hospitals are full but that article does not actually say they are currently overrun. Regardless, it's going to get worse for El Paso and the other border cities.

Did you notice that 25% of their population is being fed by food banks? Shutdown? Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

AZ_Bear said:

---

Would not be surprised if the hospitals are full but that article does not actually say they are currently overrun. Regardless, it's going to get worse for El Paso and the other border cities.

Did you notice that 25% of their population is being fed by food banks? Shutdown? Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

---

Yep, it's only going to be El Paso and the border cities. Kind of like it was only New York and New Jersey. Maybe California and the Pacific Northwest. And Wisconsin and Minnesota and thereabouts. Parts of the deep South for sure. But definitely not a national concern at all.

Didn't say that. I was just sympathizing with El Paso. It will get worse everywhere eventually but it's hitting El Paso and the other border cities sooner.

You are moving from just being foolish to being a foolish ass.

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

---

So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

---

Some will shut down..the ones that are debt loaded.

Other businesses with cash reserves will fill in their niche very quickly......and make even bigger profits.

That's how it always works. Those that manage their debt load usually get ahead in the long run . Those that can't.....lose eventually .



Sorry guy...but there are always other jobs.

Choices.


But dying is a one way street....no overs.

---

You might want to research how many people died during the depression because that's what your scenario would lead to.

As flippant as you've accused me of being, you've been awfully flippant about other people's financial ruin. It's easy to be flippant when you've got a cash reserve. As you well know, most Americans are not so lucky.

You're scenario is unworkable and absurd. Thank god no reasonable politician would allow such authoritarian policy here.

I choose not to live my life in fear.

---

You have expressed your fear of unemployment and it's priority over peoples lives since the beginning of this pandemic .

As the death count reaches a quarter of a million , nothing has changed. Your job is far more important to you than peoples lives .

And although many people feel the same ....it should be obvious to everyone.....

jobs can be replaced but dead.....is DEAD.

---

It's so odd that you think there isn't a direct correlation between the ability to provide for ones family and death. The two are not mutually exclusive. Why do you think people have jobs Canada? To take trips to Cozumel? Or for basics like food, shelter and health care? I'm not worried about my 401k. Most people in my situation aren't.

I'm glad you're wealthy enough to survive a 90 day economic winter. Most people aren't as lucky as your selfish @ss.

Look at the depression statistics. What you are proposing would lead to more death than COVID-19.

I'm all for older people and vulnerable people like yourself taking precautions. If you're too fearful to live life and be around loved ones your remaining days that's certainly your choice. Don't subject the rest of us healthy and able-bodies people to your authoritarianism and ruin.

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

---

So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

---

Some will shut down..the ones that are debt loaded.

Other businesses with cash reserves will fill in their niche very quickly......and make even bigger profits.

That's how it always works. Those that manage their debt load usually get ahead in the long run . Those that can't.....lose eventually .



Sorry guy...but there are always other jobs.

Choices.


But dying is a one way street....no overs.

---

You might want to research how many people died during the depression because that's what your scenario would lead to.

As flippant as you've accused me of being, you've been awfully flippant about other people's financial ruin. It's easy to be flippant when you've got a cash reserve. As you well know, most Americans are not so lucky.

You're scenario is unworkable and absurd. Thank god no reasonable politician would allow such authoritarian policy here.

I choose not to live my life in fear.

---

You have expressed your fear of unemployment and it's priority over peoples lives since the beginning of this pandemic .

As the death count reaches a quarter of a million , nothing has changed. Your job is far more important to you than peoples lives .

And although many people feel the same ....it should be obvious to everyone.....

jobs can be replaced but dead.....is DEAD.

---

Look at the depression statistics. What you are proposing would lead to more death than COVID-19.

---

Please share.

I've shares it at least 3 times on various threads and will look for the link again.

Where's that accurate model you told us about? And why's it accurate?

Mothra said:

---

I've shares it at least 3 times on various threads and will look for the link again.

Where's that accurate model you told us about? And why's it accurate?

---

The Imperial College model projected a couple of hundred thousand to a couple of million deaths in two years. It was the model on which the Trump administration supposedly based its policy. It was widely ridiculed at the time, but the numbers are on track to be accurate.

The point is that a second surge was always expected (see Figure 3 in the IC report). A second surge cannot be evidence against the accuracy of a model when the model itself predicted it.

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

---

So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

---

Some will shut down..the ones that are debt loaded.

Other businesses with cash reserves will fill in their niche very quickly......and make even bigger profits.

That's how it always works. Those that manage their debt load usually get ahead in the long run . Those that can't.....lose eventually .



Sorry guy...but there are always other jobs.

Choices.


But dying is a one way street....no overs.

---

You might want to research how many people died during the depression because that's what your scenario would lead to.

As flippant as you've accused me of being, you've been awfully flippant about other people's financial ruin. It's easy to be flippant when you've got a cash reserve. As you well know, most Americans are not so lucky.

You're scenario is unworkable and absurd. Thank god no reasonable politician would allow such authoritarian policy here.

I choose not to live my life in fear.

---

You have expressed your fear of unemployment and it's priority over peoples lives since the beginning of this pandemic .

As the death count reaches a quarter of a million , nothing has changed. Your job is far more important to you than peoples lives .

And although many people feel the same ....it should be obvious to everyone.....

jobs can be replaced but dead.....is DEAD.

---

How many tenants are you going to evict when they can't pay rent? How much government support are you going to ask for to sustain your properties or recover lost rent?

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

---

So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

---

Some will shut down..the ones that are debt loaded.

Other businesses with cash reserves will fill in their niche very quickly......and make even bigger profits.

That's how it always works. Those that manage their debt load usually get ahead in the long run . Those that can't.....lose eventually .



Sorry guy...but there are always other jobs.

Choices.


But dying is a one way street....no overs.

---

You might want to research how many people died during the depression because that's what your scenario would lead to.

As flippant as you've accused me of being, you've been awfully flippant about other people's financial ruin. It's easy to be flippant when you've got a cash reserve. As you well know, most Americans are not so lucky.

You're scenario is unworkable and absurd. Thank god no reasonable politician would allow such authoritarian policy here.

I choose not to live my life in fear.

---

You have expressed your fear of unemployment and it's priority over peoples lives since the beginning of this pandemic .

As the death count reaches a quarter of a million , nothing has changed. Your job is far more important to you than peoples lives .

And although many people feel the same ....it should be obvious to everyone.....

jobs can be replaced but dead.....is DEAD.

---

It's so odd that you think there isn't a direct correlation between the ability to provide for ones family and death. The two are not mutually exclusive. Why do you think people have jobs Canada? To take trips to Cozumel? Or for basics like food, shelter and health care? I'm not worried about my 401k. Most people in my situation aren't.

I'm glad you're wealthy enough to survive a 90 day economic winter. Most people aren't as lucky as your selfish @ss.

Look at the depression statistics. What you are proposing would lead to more death than COVID-19.

I'm all for older people and vulnerable people like yourself taking precautions. If you're too fearful to live life and be around loved ones your remaining days that's certainly your choice. Don't subject the rest of us healthy and able-bodies people to your authoritarianism and ruin.

---

250,000 DEAD...and the 2nd wave is just beginning .
How many of these people were older ? Most.

Really think they got it going bar hopping ....or did some clueless fool with a truck payment give it to them at the grocery story ?

Did these old folks go to massive parties....or did some self absorbed thirty something with credit card debts give it to them while visiting their parent's house ?

Do most people intentionally infect others ? Of course not. But their CHOICES are infecting others . Family spread is a significant part of this death count .

Regardless you have had the exact same arguments from the beginning . Regardless of the number dead or made chronically ill, you are never going to change it. Your life style comes first .

I'm sorry fella, but if you have been a practicing attorney for years and you still don't have a few bucks saved up...for 3-4 months of bills, that is your choice .

And its ridiculous to look at a quarter of a million dead and tell me your mortgage payment comes first .

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

---

So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

---

Some will shut down..the ones that are debt loaded.

Other businesses with cash reserves will fill in their niche very quickly......and make even bigger profits.

That's how it always works. Those that manage their debt load usually get ahead in the long run . Those that can't.....lose eventually .



Sorry guy...but there are always other jobs.

Choices.


But dying is a one way street....no overs.

---

You might want to research how many people died during the depression because that's what your scenario would lead to.

As flippant as you've accused me of being, you've been awfully flippant about other people's financial ruin. It's easy to be flippant when you've got a cash reserve. As you well know, most Americans are not so lucky.

You're scenario is unworkable and absurd. Thank god no reasonable politician would allow such authoritarian policy here.

I choose not to live my life in fear.

---

You have expressed your fear of unemployment and it's priority over peoples lives since the beginning of this pandemic .

As the death count reaches a quarter of a million , nothing has changed. Your job is far more important to you than peoples lives .

And although many people feel the same ....it should be obvious to everyone.....

jobs can be replaced but dead.....is DEAD.

---

How many tenants are you going to evict when they can't pay rent? How much government support are you going to ask for to sustain your properties or recover lost rent?

---

We have had 3 tenants lose their jobs so far. Two left on their own and one the lease was over and sold the house .

We gave all of them their deposits back in full.

One lady we reduced her rent by 30% the last 3 months of her lease, returned her deposit in full, and gave her $ 2000 dollars to help move.

We have not taken a penny in government assistance nor asked for it .

For the record I expect the rental situation in northern Colorado to get much worse over the next year.

40% due to covid and 60% due to the Dems inevitable assault against the energy industry .

Canada2017 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

---

So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

---

Some will shut down..the ones that are debt loaded.

Other businesses with cash reserves will fill in their niche very quickly......and make even bigger profits.

That's how it always works. Those that manage their debt load usually get ahead in the long run . Those that can't.....lose eventually .



Sorry guy...but there are always other jobs.

Choices.


But dying is a one way street....no overs.

---

You might want to research how many people died during the depression because that's what your scenario would lead to.

As flippant as you've accused me of being, you've been awfully flippant about other people's financial ruin. It's easy to be flippant when you've got a cash reserve. As you well know, most Americans are not so lucky.

You're scenario is unworkable and absurd. Thank god no reasonable politician would allow such authoritarian policy here.

I choose not to live my life in fear.

---

You have expressed your fear of unemployment and it's priority over peoples lives since the beginning of this pandemic .

As the death count reaches a quarter of a million , nothing has changed. Your job is far more important to you than peoples lives .

And although many people feel the same ....it should be obvious to everyone.....

jobs can be replaced but dead.....is DEAD.

---

How many tenants are you going to evict when they can't pay rent? How much government support are you going to ask for to sustain your properties or recover lost rent?

---

We have had 3 tenants lose their jobs so far. Two left on their own and one the lease was over and sold the house .

We gave all of them their deposits back in full.

One lady we reduced her rent by 30% the last 3 months of her lease, returned her deposit in full, and gave her $ 2000 dollars to help move.

We have not taken a penny in government assistance nor asked for it .

For the record I expect the rental situation in northern Colorado to get much worse over the next year.

40% due to covid and 60% due to the Dems inevitable assault against the energy industry .

---

Good on you for supporting some of them. I would expect a moratorium on evictions and foreclosures for what term I don't know under a Biden administration in conjunction with any lockdown. Hopefully you're in a position where you're free and clear of lenders, or that the program will roll forward to rental real estate businesses. That's the government assistance I was referring to. I know big mortgage lenders are taking advantage of the last one.

And we're all waiting with great concern to see what economic games the incoming administration is going to play. Senate staying Republican is critical to minimize disruption.

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

---

So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

---

Some will shut down..the ones that are debt loaded.

Other businesses with cash reserves will fill in their niche very quickly......and make even bigger profits.

That's how it always works. Those that manage their debt load usually get ahead in the long run . Those that can't.....lose eventually .



Sorry guy...but there are always other jobs.

Choices.


But dying is a one way street....no overs.

---

You might want to research how many people died during the depression because that's what your scenario would lead to.

As flippant as you've accused me of being, you've been awfully flippant about other people's financial ruin. It's easy to be flippant when you've got a cash reserve. As you well know, most Americans are not so lucky.

You're scenario is unworkable and absurd. Thank god no reasonable politician would allow such authoritarian policy here.

I choose not to live my life in fear.

---

You have expressed your fear of unemployment and it's priority over peoples lives since the beginning of this pandemic .

As the death count reaches a quarter of a million , nothing has changed. Your job is far more important to you than peoples lives .

And although many people feel the same ....it should be obvious to everyone.....

jobs can be replaced but dead.....is DEAD.

---

How many tenants are you going to evict when they can't pay rent? How much government support are you going to ask for to sustain your properties or recover lost rent?

---

We have had 3 tenants lose their jobs so far. Two left on their own and one the lease was over and sold the house .

We gave all of them their deposits back in full.

One lady we reduced her rent by 30% the last 3 months of her lease, returned her deposit in full, and gave her $ 2000 dollars to help move.

We have not taken a penny in government assistance nor asked for it .

For the record I expect the rental situation in northern Colorado to get much worse over the next year.

40% due to covid and 60% due to the Dems inevitable assault against the energy industry .

---

Good on you for supporting some of them. I would expect a moratorium on evictions and foreclosures for what term I don't know under a Biden administration in conjunction with any lockdown. Hopefully you're in a position where you're free and clear of lenders, or that the program will roll forward to rental real estate businesses. That's the government assistance I was referring to. I know big mortgage lenders are taking advantage of the last one.

And we're all waiting with great concern to see what economic games the incoming administration is going to play. Senate staying Republican is critical to minimize disruption.

---

By mid December we will have paid off the last mortgage loan on any of our rental houses .

With the current low interest rates this isn't the most profitable choice .However have repeatedly seen associates get over extended in good times .......only to lose everything during 'unexpected' bad times .

Agreed, rent moratoriums are on the horizon . If not from the feds certainly from our very liberal legislature here in Colorado .

Mothra said:

---

You might want to research how many people died during the depression because that's what your scenario would lead to.

As flippant as you've accused me of being, you've been awfully flippant about other people's financial ruin. It's easy to be flippant when you've got a cash reserve. As you well know, most Americans are not so lucky.

You're scenario is unworkable and absurd. Thank god no reasonable politician would allow such authoritarian policy here.

I choose not to live my life in fear.

---

So basically you think suicide deaths will outnumber covid deaths if we avoid large gatherings and wear masks?

What if you are wrong?

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

---

So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

---

Some will shut down..the ones that are debt loaded.

Other businesses with cash reserves will fill in their niche very quickly......and make even bigger profits.

That's how it always works. Those that manage their debt load usually get ahead in the long run . Those that can't.....lose eventually .



Sorry guy...but there are always other jobs.

Choices.


But dying is a one way street....no overs.

---

You might want to research how many people died during the depression because that's what your scenario would lead to.

As flippant as you've accused me of being, you've been awfully flippant about other people's financial ruin. It's easy to be flippant when you've got a cash reserve. As you well know, most Americans are not so lucky.

You're scenario is unworkable and absurd. Thank god no reasonable politician would allow such authoritarian policy here.

I choose not to live my life in fear.

---

You have expressed your fear of unemployment and it's priority over peoples lives since the beginning of this pandemic .

As the death count reaches a quarter of a million , nothing has changed. Your job is far more important to you than peoples lives .

And although many people feel the same ....it should be obvious to everyone.....

jobs can be replaced but dead.....is DEAD.

---

How many tenants are you going to evict when they can't pay rent? How much government support are you going to ask for to sustain your properties or recover lost rent?

---

We have had 3 tenants lose their jobs so far. Two left on their own and one the lease was over and sold the house .

We gave all of them their deposits back in full.

One lady we reduced her rent by 30% the last 3 months of her lease, returned her deposit in full, and gave her $ 2000 dollars to help move.

We have not taken a penny in government assistance nor asked for it .

For the record I expect the rental situation in northern Colorado to get much worse over the next year.

40% due to covid and 60% due to the Dems inevitable assault against the energy industry .

---

Good on you for supporting some of them. I would expect a moratorium on evictions and foreclosures for what term I don't know under a Biden administration in conjunction with any lockdown. Hopefully you're in a position where you're free and clear of lenders, or that the program will roll forward to rental real estate businesses. That's the government assistance I was referring to. I know big mortgage lenders are taking advantage of the last one.

And we're all waiting with great concern to see what economic games the incoming administration is going to play. Senate staying Republican is critical to minimize disruption.

---

As I have mentioned before. We have not evicted anyone and have given 4 months rent deferral on the back end of the lease to help out, the ones in trouble, but we can't do that forever. Our properties are 400-600 units. You don't pay off the mortgage. These properties have notes on them to anywhere to $35M-$60M. Guess what, our lenders don't really give a 2 ****s......they want their money monthly. At some point, the math doesn't work. We are close.

J.R. said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

---

So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

---

Some will shut down..the ones that are debt loaded.

Other businesses with cash reserves will fill in their niche very quickly......and make even bigger profits.

That's how it always works. Those that manage their debt load usually get ahead in the long run . Those that can't.....lose eventually .



Sorry guy...but there are always other jobs.

Choices.


But dying is a one way street....no overs.

---

You might want to research how many people died during the depression because that's what your scenario would lead to.

As flippant as you've accused me of being, you've been awfully flippant about other people's financial ruin. It's easy to be flippant when you've got a cash reserve. As you well know, most Americans are not so lucky.

You're scenario is unworkable and absurd. Thank god no reasonable politician would allow such authoritarian policy here.

I choose not to live my life in fear.

---

You have expressed your fear of unemployment and it's priority over peoples lives since the beginning of this pandemic .

As the death count reaches a quarter of a million , nothing has changed. Your job is far more important to you than peoples lives .

And although many people feel the same ....it should be obvious to everyone.....

jobs can be replaced but dead.....is DEAD.

---

How many tenants are you going to evict when they can't pay rent? How much government support are you going to ask for to sustain your properties or recover lost rent?

---

We have had 3 tenants lose their jobs so far. Two left on their own and one the lease was over and sold the house .

We gave all of them their deposits back in full.

One lady we reduced her rent by 30% the last 3 months of her lease, returned her deposit in full, and gave her $ 2000 dollars to help move.

We have not taken a penny in government assistance nor asked for it .

For the record I expect the rental situation in northern Colorado to get much worse over the next year.

40% due to covid and 60% due to the Dems inevitable assault against the energy industry .

---

Good on you for supporting some of them. I would expect a moratorium on evictions and foreclosures for what term I don't know under a Biden administration in conjunction with any lockdown. Hopefully you're in a position where you're free and clear of lenders, or that the program will roll forward to rental real estate businesses. That's the government assistance I was referring to. I know big mortgage lenders are taking advantage of the last one.

And we're all waiting with great concern to see what economic games the incoming administration is going to play. Senate staying Republican is critical to minimize disruption.

---

As I have mentioned before. We have not evicted anyone and have given 4 months rent deferral on the back end of the lease to help out, the ones in trouble, but we can't do that forever. Our properties are 400-600 units. You don't pay off the mortgage. These properties have notes on them to anywhere to $35M-$60M. Guess what, our lenders don't really give a 2 ****s......they want their money monthly. At some point, the math doesn't work. We are close.

---

Yeah that friendly banker buying you dinner when things are good will cut your nuts off when things go sour.......every time .

And if he doesn't....the bank's board of directors fires him and hires someone else to do the cutting .

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

---

So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

---

Some will shut down..the ones that are debt loaded.

Other businesses with cash reserves will fill in their niche very quickly......and make even bigger profits.

That's how it always works. Those that manage their debt load usually get ahead in the long run . Those that can't.....lose eventually .



Sorry guy...but there are always other jobs.

Choices.


But dying is a one way street....no overs.

---

You might want to research how many people died during the depression because that's what your scenario would lead to.

As flippant as you've accused me of being, you've been awfully flippant about other people's financial ruin. It's easy to be flippant when you've got a cash reserve. As you well know, most Americans are not so lucky.

You're scenario is unworkable and absurd. Thank god no reasonable politician would allow such authoritarian policy here.

I choose not to live my life in fear.

---

You have expressed your fear of unemployment and it's priority over peoples lives since the beginning of this pandemic .

As the death count reaches a quarter of a million , nothing has changed. Your job is far more important to you than peoples lives .

And although many people feel the same ....it should be obvious to everyone.....

jobs can be replaced but dead.....is DEAD.

---

How many tenants are you going to evict when they can't pay rent? How much government support are you going to ask for to sustain your properties or recover lost rent?

---

We have had 3 tenants lose their jobs so far. Two left on their own and one the lease was over and sold the house .

We gave all of them their deposits back in full.

One lady we reduced her rent by 30% the last 3 months of her lease, returned her deposit in full, and gave her $ 2000 dollars to help move.

We have not taken a penny in government assistance nor asked for it .

For the record I expect the rental situation in northern Colorado to get much worse over the next year.

40% due to covid and 60% due to the Dems inevitable assault against the energy industry .

---

Good on you for supporting some of them. I would expect a moratorium on evictions and foreclosures for what term I don't know under a Biden administration in conjunction with any lockdown. Hopefully you're in a position where you're free and clear of lenders, or that the program will roll forward to rental real estate businesses. That's the government assistance I was referring to. I know big mortgage lenders are taking advantage of the last one.

And we're all waiting with great concern to see what economic games the incoming administration is going to play. Senate staying Republican is critical to minimize disruption.

---

As I have mentioned before. We have not evicted anyone and have given 4 months rent deferral on the back end of the lease to help out, the ones in trouble, but we can't do that forever. Our properties are 400-600 units. You don't pay off the mortgage. These properties have notes on them to anywhere to $35M-$60M. Guess what, our lenders don't really give a 2 ****s......they want their money monthly. At some point, the math doesn't work. We are close.

---

Yeah that friendly banker buying you dinner when things are good will cut your nuts off when things go sour.......every time .

And if he doesn't....the bank's board of directors fires him and hires someone else to do the cutting .

---

Even worse, most of our leverage are institutional lenders from NYC. You think they give 2 ****s about some yahoo's down in Texas? Nah. At least I can work my local banker.

Canada2017 said:

---

Colorado just saw over 6400 cases of covid in the last 24 hours .

All time record number .

Time to get real and forget about politics. Hospitals will be getting swamped within 2 weeks tops.

Obviously cloth and paper masks are not the answer.

If you don't have an N95 mask be completely focused on social distancing.

---

My daughter is an OT for a school district in CS and mentioned they may be back to at home instruction very soon.

J.R. said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

---

So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

---

Some will shut down..the ones that are debt loaded.

Other businesses with cash reserves will fill in their niche very quickly......and make even bigger profits.

That's how it always works. Those that manage their debt load usually get ahead in the long run . Those that can't.....lose eventually .



Sorry guy...but there are always other jobs.

Choices.


But dying is a one way street....no overs.

---

You might want to research how many people died during the depression because that's what your scenario would lead to.

As flippant as you've accused me of being, you've been awfully flippant about other people's financial ruin. It's easy to be flippant when you've got a cash reserve. As you well know, most Americans are not so lucky.

You're scenario is unworkable and absurd. Thank god no reasonable politician would allow such authoritarian policy here.

I choose not to live my life in fear.

---

You have expressed your fear of unemployment and it's priority over peoples lives since the beginning of this pandemic .

As the death count reaches a quarter of a million , nothing has changed. Your job is far more important to you than peoples lives .

And although many people feel the same ....it should be obvious to everyone.....

jobs can be replaced but dead.....is DEAD.

---

How many tenants are you going to evict when they can't pay rent? How much government support are you going to ask for to sustain your properties or recover lost rent?

---

We have had 3 tenants lose their jobs so far. Two left on their own and one the lease was over and sold the house .

We gave all of them their deposits back in full.

One lady we reduced her rent by 30% the last 3 months of her lease, returned her deposit in full, and gave her $ 2000 dollars to help move.

We have not taken a penny in government assistance nor asked for it .

For the record I expect the rental situation in northern Colorado to get much worse over the next year.

40% due to covid and 60% due to the Dems inevitable assault against the energy industry .

---

Good on you for supporting some of them. I would expect a moratorium on evictions and foreclosures for what term I don't know under a Biden administration in conjunction with any lockdown. Hopefully you're in a position where you're free and clear of lenders, or that the program will roll forward to rental real estate businesses. That's the government assistance I was referring to. I know big mortgage lenders are taking advantage of the last one.

And we're all waiting with great concern to see what economic games the incoming administration is going to play. Senate staying Republican is critical to minimize disruption.

---

As I have mentioned before. We have not evicted anyone and have given 4 months rent deferral on the back end of the lease to help out, the ones in trouble, but we can't do that forever. Our properties are 400-600 units. You don't pay off the mortgage. These properties have notes on them to anywhere to $35M-$60M. Guess what, our lenders don't really give a 2 ****s......they want their money monthly. At some point, the math doesn't work. We are close.

---

And you're the exact target they will say doesn't "deserve" any support while they make it illegal for you to try to salvage revenue from tenants.

I've been in your seat before, and it's tough. Not on real estate but a debt leveraged company turnaround. Good luck to you.

Bruin said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Colorado just saw over 6400 cases of covid in the last 24 hours .

All time record number .

Time to get real and forget about politics. Hospitals will be getting swamped within 2 weeks tops.

Obviously cloth and paper masks are not the answer.

If you don't have an N95 mask be completely focused on social distancing.

---

My daughter is an OT for a school district in CS and mentioned they may be back to at home instruction very soon.

---

Already announced here .....begins next week I believe .

If you believe 250,000 have died of Covid in the US then I have a bridge to sell to you.

That is a made up number to get medical reimbursrments.

Yep. And that's just our propensity to over count.

Did you know that some European countries don't count a COVID death if the person didn't die in the hospital? And some use a lower threshold to determine if someone has COVID or not?

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Those of you scared of a virus that kills less than 1% of those who get it, do what you feel is right. If you want to live in fear of this disease and think there is a magic bullet coming, then isolate and lockdown the next year and inject yourself with a vaccine - the lasting effects of which are unknown.

Let the rest of us do what we feel is best for us.

---

Heard this same argument last March when the death count was below 1,000.

Approaching 240,000 dead now and the number of new infections is increasing dramatically .

Not trying to be snarky ....but Is there any number of deaths that would alter your mindset ?

---

1, his/her own.

4yrletterbear said:

---

If you believe 250,000 have died of Covid in the US then I have a bridge to sell to you.

That is a made up number to get medical reimbursrments.

---

The official statistic is that COVID contributed to more than 230,000 deaths. The excess death statistics more than support that number.

Wishing it away does not help anyone.

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

---

So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

---

Some will shut down..the ones that are debt loaded.

Other businesses with cash reserves will fill in their niche very quickly......and make even bigger profits.

That's how it always works. Those that manage their debt load usually get ahead in the long run . Those that can't.....lose eventually .



Sorry guy...but there are always other jobs.

Choices.


But dying is a one way street....no overs.

---

You might want to research how many people died during the depression because that's what your scenario would lead to.

As flippant as you've accused me of being, you've been awfully flippant about other people's financial ruin. It's easy to be flippant when you've got a cash reserve. As you well know, most Americans are not so lucky.

You're scenario is unworkable and absurd. Thank god no reasonable politician would allow such authoritarian policy here.

I choose not to live my life in fear.

---

You have expressed your fear of unemployment and it's priority over peoples lives since the beginning of this pandemic .

As the death count reaches a quarter of a million , nothing has changed. Your job is far more important to you than peoples lives .

And although many people feel the same ....it should be obvious to everyone.....

jobs can be replaced but dead.....is DEAD.

---

It's so odd that you think there isn't a direct correlation between the ability to provide for ones family and death. The two are not mutually exclusive. Why do you think people have jobs Canada? To take trips to Cozumel? Or for basics like food, shelter and health care? I'm not worried about my 401k. Most people in my situation aren't.

I'm glad you're wealthy enough to survive a 90 day economic winter. Most people aren't as lucky as your selfish @ss.

Look at the depression statistics. What you are proposing would lead to more death than COVID-19.

I'm all for older people and vulnerable people like yourself taking precautions. If you're too fearful to live life and be around loved ones your remaining days that's certainly your choice. Don't subject the rest of us healthy and able-bodies people to your authoritarianism and ruin.

---

250,000 DEAD...and the 2nd wave is just beginning .
How many of these people were older ? Most.

Really think they got it going bar hopping ....or did some clueless fool with a truck payment give it to them at the grocery story ?

Did these old folks go to massive parties....or did some self absorbed thirty something with credit card debts give it to them while visiting their parent's house ?

Do most people intentionally infect others ? Of course not. But their CHOICES are infecting others . Family spread is a significant part of this death count .

Regardless you have had the exact same arguments from the beginning . Regardless of the number dead or made chronically ill, you are never going to change it. Your life style comes first .

I'm sorry fella, but if you have been a practicing attorney for years and you still don't have a few bucks saved up...for 3-4 months of bills, that is your choice .

And its ridiculous to look at a quarter of a million dead and tell me your mortgage payment comes first .

---

This post unwittingly illustrates the selfishness of your position - you think this is about you and me when it's not. Most people are not as lucky as you and I - having hundreds of thousands of dollars stored away in savings. While your plan to shut the economy down for 90 days would cost me my job, and certainly force many of my clients' small businesses to go under - I could "survive" for quite a while if I liquidated my assets, certainly. But that is completely beside the point. This is not about you and I. It's about those who are not as fortunate as you and I.

The statistics show it is lower middle class and poor people who would suffer the most under your plan, and have suffered the most as a result of the temporary shutdowns back in March. It's always the people at the bottom most affected by the decisions of the bourgeois. It is they who are living paycheck to paycheck. Oh, I am sure you find them irresponsible for not having the kind of money you do stored in savings, but the bottom line is they do not, and there is no disputing that. What I find so distasteful and disgusting about your position is the flippancy with which you choose to describe those people. They may have made poor CHOICES or certainly worse CHOICES than you, but their lives count every much as yours and mine. They are children of God as well. But your plan is basically a big "F You" to those people. If they can't pay for food or shelter, that apparently is their problem, I guess. And that is disgusting and shameful. What happens when they cannot pay for food and shelter? Are you going to feed and shelter them? Are you going to give hundreds of thousands of dollars to charity to do so? Of course you won't. You'll shelter the storm from the safe confines of your basement.

What's so ironic, is you foolishly believe it is YOUR plan that is the compassionate one. You just don't think of the repercussions of a depression. It will be worse than this disease,

I am all for the vulnerable and older isolating for a period. We have older neighbors who are doing that. They haven't been with family since March. We see their grandkids come over from time to time to say hello from the front yard. For a while I had my boys mowing their front yard. I speak to their son on occasion, and he says they do zoom with the grandkids quite a bit as well. But he also tells me they are so depressed. The isolation is killing them. They're not truly living, IMO. So, while I would not choose that, I understand why they are doing so.

If you and other older/vulnerable people want to do that, I understand. It has logic to it. But draconian and authoritarian measures to shut down all non-essential businesses makes no sense, even if Canada will be just fine.