RFK might not be the hero you think he was. I think he was a lot like his brother in both good & bad ways.

FLBear5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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historian said:

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Cobretti said:

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BREAKING: The Special Counsel investigating Biden's classified documents from his time as VP that were found at his house and office are not expected to charge anyone.

They will apparently "be critical of Biden and his staff for the way they handled sensitive materials" but… pic.twitter.com/65vnxLfG1y

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 16, 2023

Joe Biden's DOJ investigated Joe Biden and found that Joe Biden had done nothing wrong by taking classified material and storing it in his office and garage floor. https://t.co/6VsDxDw3gO

— Stephen L. Miller (@redsteeze) November 16, 2023

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What a crock! If what Biden did as VP was "nothing wrong" then why are they prosecuting Trump for what he did with documents as president? The president has the authority to declassify documents, the VP doesn't. Also, Biden had more documents in more places and stored less securely, even haphazardly. Clearly a double standard.

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This is the reason I will hold my nose and vote for Trump a third time if he turns out to be the Republican nominee. This crap has got to stop.

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If I am forced, I too will vote Trump for the third time. While the question is still open, I will do everything I can to get a new candidate.

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That is the sound strategy.

Don't forget that for all the noise, not even one primary has taken place, the whole primary season is still ahead of us.

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We are channeling the same maestro. Not one vote has been cast, yet Trump and his followers want us to declare a winner.

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I actually don't blame Trump for that tactic, the front-runner always wants his/her primary opponents to drop out early, to save money for the General Campaign.

The time between now and Super Tuesday is when the candidates polling below 10% have to weigh their chances against their costs. Trump knows that and is putting pressure on them to quit now and save him money.

What we are also seeing now, is candidates learn - often the hard way - what works and what doesn't with voters. Vivek and Nikki and Ron are learning those facts with some pain, but if they do learn, they can craft a winning image before the real voting starts.

Still hoping Ron finds his stride soon.

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I agree, it is not on Trump. That is good strategy, it is on us to not force him to defend his candidacy. We have gotten lazy as a Nation. The one question that I thought needs to be asked is who do you trust to be President? Who will put the US interests first, ahead of their own. I believed Eisenhower, Reagan, Carter (just not competent.) Bush, and even W (my regard for him is growing over time). To me that is leadership and someone worth following. In this race, of who is left:

1 - DeSantis
2 - Haley
3 - Christie
4 - Trump
5 - Kennedy (Whack job, but his Dad's legacy is strong for putting US first. I respect Bobby, one tough SOB)

Who I don't trust

1 - Vivek
2 - Biden

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Good list, except I don't trust Christie at all.

historian said:

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RFK might not be the hero you think he was. I think he was a lot like his brother in both good & bad ways.

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RFK had a well deserved reputation as one incredibly vicious SOB to those who worked under him.

Although not the ladies man compared to either JFK or Teddy; FBI Director Hoover had enough dirt on RFK to keep his job secure.

For all of that RFK would have made a better president than his brother or Richard Nixon.

Personally brave, hard working and a clear thinker.

His assassination was a true loss for the country.

KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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RFK might not be the hero you think he was. I think he was a lot like his brother in both good & bad ways.

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RFK had a well deserved reputation as one incredibly vicious SOB to those who worked under him.

Although not the ladies man compared to either JFK or Teddy; FBI Director Hoover had enough dirt on RFK to keep his job secure.

For all of that RFK would have made a better president than his brother or Richard Nixon.

Personally brave, hard working and a clear thinker.

His assassination was a true loss for the country.

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No riots in Indianapolis

https://www.google.com/search?q=rfk+indianapolis+speech&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

I'm trying to imagine Trump or Biden quoting Aescholis

I think RFK also had an affair with Marilyn Monroe. He may have been the best of the Kennedy's but that's not saying much.

I've seen some speculation that the mafia helped the Kennedy's win in 1960 (that explains the extremely close win in Illinois) and his pursuing them as AG provided motive for the JFK assassination. But that's an unproven conspiracy theory.

historian said:

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I think RFK also had an affair with Marilyn Monroe.

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Link?

Osodecentx said:

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historian said:

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I think RFK also had an affair with Marilyn Monroe.

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Link?

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Before his time, and anyway he was just into that video game.

historian said:

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I think RFK also had an affair with Marilyn Monroe. He may have been the best of the Kennedy's but that's not saying much.

I've seen some speculation that the mafia helped the Kennedy's win in 1960 (that explains the extremely close win in Illinois) and his pursuing them as AG provided motive for the JFK assassination. But that's an unproven conspiracy theory.

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historian said:

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RFK might not be the hero you think he was. I think he was a lot like his brother in both good & bad ways.

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I don't think he was a hero. But he had the attributes to be a good and effective leader. He may have been tough, but he also instilled loyalty to those that worked for him, they would go to hell for him.

I do not believe he was a choirboy by any stretch, of all the brothers he had his father's toughness, but mixed with a strong believe in public service. He would have been a formidable President.

I have mixed feelings about RFK. I don't know what kind of a president he would have been. Nobody does.

I will say this: he did play an important role in ending the Cuban Missile Crisis. His book on the subject is very good although, like most such books, it is probably pretty self serving.

Osodecentx said:

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historian said:

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I think RFK also had an affair with Marilyn Monroe.

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Link?

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I'm uncertain where I heard that. It could very well be gossip. Or speculation based on the Kennedy reputation for womanizing, including Papa Joe.

What video game?

historian said:

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What video game?

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You never heard of Link from Legend of Zelda?

I've heard of Legend of Zelda but know nothing about it other than the name. I haven't played many video games in the last 20-30 years. Little interest.

Transperson murders 6 people at religious school

"we are worried for the LGBT community"

Hamas murders 1500 Israelis

"we are worred about Islamaphobia"

historian said:

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I have mixed feelings about RFK. I don't know what kind of a president he would have been. Nobody does.

I will say this: he did play an important role in ending the Cuban Missile Crisis. His book on the subject is very good although, like most such books, it is probably pretty self serving.

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RFK certainly had a role in bringing on the Cuban Missile Crisis with his constant badgering of the CIA to kill Castro after the Bay of Pigs fiasco.

KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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I have mixed feelings about RFK. I don't know what kind of a president he would have been. Nobody does.

I will say this: he did play an important role in ending the Cuban Missile Crisis. His book on the subject is very good although, like most such books, it is probably pretty self serving.

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RFK certainly had a role in bringing on the Cuban Missile Crisis with his constant badgering of the CIA to kill Castro after the Bay of Pigs fiasco.

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Read One Hell of a Gamble. If you're in to that time and the middle crisis it's a must read. By an American and a Russian including declassified documents. It's the best read I've ever found on the subject.

Osodecentx said:

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]From National Review:
A majority of voters correctly say they believe spending is too high, but then when asked what they'd like to see cut, they say foreign aid and that's it. As I noted when such a poll was published in March, majorities actually say spending on Medicare and Social Security, our two largest budget-busters, should be higher while simultaneously saying that overall government spending should be lower. Public opinion on this topic is incoherent and often mathematically impossible to enact.

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It's actually extremely coherent.

Obligations to American Citizens should be the last thing the American government defaults on. There can be no discussion about cuts to Medicare and Social Security while entities like the Department of Education, the NEA, NPR, the ATF, USAID, and a whole host of others still exist and the first dollar of foreign and military aid is being sent outside our borders.

nein51 said:

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KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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I have mixed feelings about RFK. I don't know what kind of a president he would have been. Nobody does.

I will say this: he did play an important role in ending the Cuban Missile Crisis. His book on the subject is very good although, like most such books, it is probably pretty self serving.

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RFK certainly had a role in bringing on the Cuban Missile Crisis with his constant badgering of the CIA to kill Castro after the Bay of Pigs fiasco.

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Read One Hell of a Gamble. If you're in to that time and the middle crisis it's a must read. By an American and a Russian including declassified documents. It's the best read I've ever found on the subject.

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Honestly I have read so much about JFK as to be tired of the subject.

One of the biggest failures of the 20th century yet becuase of his good looks and those of Jackie the media continues to gloss over his littany of personal and political misdeeds.

Yikes 🥴 pic.twitter.com/MY0vqDkTiP

— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) November 18, 2023

historian said:

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I think RFK also had an affair with Marilyn Monroe. He may have been the best of the Kennedy's but that's not saying much.

I've seen some speculation that the mafia helped the Kennedy's win in 1960 (that explains the extremely close win in Illinois) and his pursuing them as AG provided motive for the JFK assassination. But that's an unproven conspiracy theory.

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Was in 3rd grade in Mesquite, Texas when we got the word that Kennedy had been shot in nearby Dallas.

For at least 8 years afterwards people would blame those who lived in the Dallas area, that somehow we were responsible for Kennedy's assassination.

After everything I have read, firmly believe it was the Mafia who had Kennedy killed. Pay back to the Kennedy family for going after the Mob even though they had delivered Chicago ( and therefore Illinois ) to JFK during the super close 1960 election.

However to her dying day Jackie Kennedy believed LBJ was responsible.

KaiBear said:

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nein51 said:

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KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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I have mixed feelings about RFK. I don't know what kind of a president he would have been. Nobody does.

I will say this: he did play an important role in ending the Cuban Missile Crisis. His book on the subject is very good although, like most such books, it is probably pretty self serving.

---

RFK certainly had a role in bringing on the Cuban Missile Crisis with his constant badgering of the CIA to kill Castro after the Bay of Pigs fiasco.

---

Read One Hell of a Gamble. If you're in to that time and the middle crisis it's a must read. By an American and a Russian including declassified documents. It's the best read I've ever found on the subject.

---

Honestly I have read so much about JFK as to be tired of the subject.

One of the biggest failures of the 20th century yet becuase of his good looks and those of Jackie the media continues to gloss over his littany of personal and political misdeeds.

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This book is definitely not a JFK love fest

A few weeks ago WP published an article headlined, 'Biden’s Economy Is Great Everywhere Except in the Polls.' Yes, it was funny. But the polls, not the headlines, reflect reality. Here's an explanation: https://t.co/1yG3HQDTOB pic.twitter.com/En9Nl1Buqq

— Byron York (@ByronYork) November 18, 2023

Cobretti said:

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Yikes 🥴 pic.twitter.com/MY0vqDkTiP

— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) November 18, 2023

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👀 Now Even Bill Maher is Throwing in the Towel on Biden’s 2024 Run

“I don’t think he can win the job and that’s what I care about. He’s going to lose.” pic.twitter.com/9zVXi37ld2

— Chief Nerd (@TheChiefNerd) November 18, 2023

KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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I think RFK also had an affair with Marilyn Monroe. He may have been the best of the Kennedy's but that's not saying much.

I've seen some speculation that the mafia helped the Kennedy's win in 1960 (that explains the extremely close win in Illinois) and his pursuing them as AG provided motive for the JFK assassination. But that's an unproven conspiracy theory.

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However to her dying day Jackie Kennedy believed LBJ was responsible.

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I've never seen this in a biography. What is your source?

There have been a half dozen or so books written about LBJ's involvement in the assassination of JFK. There have also been several well researched documentaries about it.

At this point is pretty clear at this point that Oswald was not a lone gunman and that there was an organzed plot involving the IC, organized crime, and LBJ to kill him. In fact, if anyone is a "conspiracy theorist", it is someone who is trying to maintain the falsehood that it was a lone gunman named Lee Harvey Oswald.

Jack Bauer said:

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Transperson murders 6 people at religious school

"we are worried for the LGBT community"

Hamas murders 1500 Israelis

"we are worred about Islamaphobia"

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The fascists have everything out of whack.

KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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I think RFK also had an affair with Marilyn Monroe. He may have been the best of the Kennedy's but that's not saying much.

I've seen some speculation that the mafia helped the Kennedy's win in 1960 (that explains the extremely close win in Illinois) and his pursuing them as AG provided motive for the JFK assassination. But that's an unproven conspiracy theory.

---

Was in 3rd grade in Mesquite, Texas when we got the word that Kennedy had been shot in nearby Dallas.

For at least 8 years afterwards people would blame those who lived in the Dallas area, that somehow we were responsible for Kennedy's assassination.

After everything I have read, firmly believe it was the Mafia who had Kennedy killed. Pay back to the Kennedy family for going after the Mob even though they had delivered Chicago ( and therefore Illinois ) to JFK during the super close 1960 election.

However to her dying day Jackie Kennedy believed LBJ was responsible.

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We may never know the full truth.

Cobretti said:

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Yikes 🥴 pic.twitter.com/MY0vqDkTiP

— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) November 18, 2023

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Is the YIKES for the booger on his finger or the dazed and confused look?

Realitybites said:

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There have been a half dozen or so books written about LBJ's involvement in the assassination of JFK. There have also been several well researched documentaries about it.

At this point is pretty clear at this point that Oswald was not a lone gunman and that there was an organzed plot involving the IC, organized crime, and LBJ to kill him. In fact, if anyone is a "conspiracy theorist", it is someone who is trying to maintain the falsehood that it was a lone gunman named Lee Harvey Oswald.

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No it isn't clear
Source?

historian said:

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Osodecentx said:

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historian said:

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I think RFK also had an affair with Marilyn Monroe.

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Link?

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I'm uncertain where I heard that. It could very well be gossip. Or speculation based on the Kennedy reputation for womanizing, including Papa Joe.

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Let's separate out the vices from the official acts. I can't think of any President, except Jimmy Carter, that is squeaky clean. The Kennedy's, Clinton, FDR it was women (plural). EIsenhower it was a woman and his infactuation with clandestine missions (at least they were in foreign nations). Nixon, Johnson, Trump it was power. Truman had organized crime connections. I can go on.

You don't get to that seat and not have an ego, which leads to vices.

FLBear5630 said:

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historian said:

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Osodecentx said:

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historian said:

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I think RFK also had an affair with Marilyn Monroe.

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Link?

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I'm uncertain where I heard that. It could very well be gossip. Or speculation based on the Kennedy reputation for womanizing, including Papa Joe.

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Let's separate out the vices from the official acts. I can't think of any President, except Jimmy Carter, that is squeaky clean. The Kennedy's, Clinton, FDR it was women (plural). EIsenhower it was a woman and his infactuation with clandestine missions (at least they were in foreign nations). Nixon, Johnson, Trump it was power. Truman had organized crime connections. I can go on.

You don't get to that seat and not have an ego, which leads to vices.

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I'm not sure if there is anything behind the Eisenhower rumors. Truman & organized crime is very iffy. I think that is a rumor with no real foundation. Potentially more disturbing is that Truman came close to joining the KKK. It was for political reasons and in the end he didn't join on personal principle. And he was the first president since Lincoln or Grant to do anything consequential on civil rights.

historian said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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historian said:

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Osodecentx said:

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historian said:

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I think RFK also had an affair with Marilyn Monroe.

---

Link?

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I'm uncertain where I heard that. It could very well be gossip. Or speculation based on the Kennedy reputation for womanizing, including Papa Joe.

---

Let's separate out the vices from the official acts. I can't think of any President, except Jimmy Carter, that is squeaky clean. The Kennedy's, Clinton, FDR it was women (plural). EIsenhower it was a woman and his infactuation with clandestine missions (at least they were in foreign nations). Nixon, Johnson, Trump it was power. Truman had organized crime connections. I can go on.

You don't get to that seat and not have an ego, which leads to vices.

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I'm not sure if there is anything behind the Eisenhower rumors. Truman & organized crime is very iffy. I think that is a rumor with no real foundation. Potentially more disturbing is that Truman came close to joining the KKK. It was for political reasons and in the end he didn't join on personal principle. And he was the first president since Lincoln or Grant to do anything consequential on civil rights.

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Well, the Eisenhower was his driver. Have no idea if true. As for Truman, he did attend a mobsters funeral as VP, that was fact. Both have as much legs as the current Biden and Trump stuff. Nothing seems provable and adds to the speculation. I am sure much of the RFK is similar.

I guess my point, is they are elected to do a job, how did they do? That means more than the personal life stuff to me. Clinton was a scoundrel (probably the closest to the definition in modern times), but he was a gifted administrator. He did not do a bad job and learned from his mistakes. Would I go into a Land Deal with him? Hell no!

I'm familiar with the story about Ike's driver I just have some doubts. It could be true.

Bill Clinton is a sexual predator and a notorious crook. He cannot be trusted with anything! He also did much damage as an administrator, not to mention appointing many judges who cannot be relied upon for justice including multiple SCOTUS justices. The economy looked great in the 1990s but he deserves little to no credit. He made "wag the dog" a real thing.