I have met Stranger and he is a Baylor man and a Baylor fan.

Limited giving character reference for Stranger.

Greatness. Seriously.

Two of my favorite people/posters--their ability to see thru and to cut thru bullsh*t is beyond question.

Some day when I grow up I hope I have a bit of those two virtues.

Malbec said:

---

Greenbear said:

---

Baylor has every right to protect attorney-client privilege as anyone else. I get that Trolls are just part of the package on this forum, but what a load of crap. Just go away...

---

You know what is a load of crap? Hiring a law firm to conduct an "independent investigation" and then later claiming, no wait!, they are OUR lawyers. Baylor has no privilege right over work product from an independent investigation, unless that was a sham investigation all along.

---

Also, I do not believe that Pepper Hamilton interviewed any of the accused.
They only interviewed the accusers. I think it was a half-baked investigation.

Greenbear said:

---

Stranger and Max

We don't need you on here telling us what you believe to be the truth or outcome. Posting articles is not truth. If you are truly a Baylor fan, and sorry I don't believe it, then just wait until all is done and comment. Everything else is being put out there by people who hate Baylor, want to position the media, or have an agenda. There is no balance to your reports or openness to see how it turns out. Both of you have opinions that have already been formed.

Most of us want this over, wanted this over long ago. This isn't a regent issue, but an athletic department and administration that wasn't doing the right things. Baylor administration has an obligation to defend itself. We have made major changes and no one remains who was part of the issue, from what I can tell. We cleaned house. Where is that dialogue?

What remains are legal issues with settlements pending. It is normal, and responsible, for our administration to follow the lead of their attorney's as they try to close this sad chapter.

---

I mean... yeah... no one who remains was a part of the issue... other than the entire BOR who was in place then and is still in place now, sans a couple of throw-in alumni elected regents... all of whom collectively make every major decision for the university... other than that entire room full of self-appointed & self-backfilled mostly male leaders... yes, other than that, we cleaned house.

Timbear said:

---

I would not be surprised if male students close to some Regents were implicated in sexual assaults, and they brought down Art and everything else to cover it up.

---

This is actually the first alleged (no evidence to back it up, but that's 99% of posts on this board) explanation I've ever heard in 7 years that would finally explain in a way that could make sense how we fumbled the ball on this deal with inconceivable bad judgement calls over & over again for an entire year+.

Even with no evidence whatsoever, it's the first thing that would explain our gross incompetence, from people who are anything but incompetent.

Only Longhorns seem to be this interested in Baylor affairs. Just can't stand little brother trying to outshine big bro. Well suck on that NCAA Championship and then saw 'em off! Hell, you can't carry our conference in anything but Women's Volleyball so we did it for you.

chriscbear said:

---

The rumor on BF.Com before Briles etc got dismissed was the PH Report was critical of Greek Life at Baylor. Could this be part of the reason its never been made public ? Embarrassing info ?

---

If people would take the time to read the PH report, it's broadly critical of BU, not just football. In fact, it clearly points out the BU broadly failed in its handling of sexual assault complaints. It just says that its failures were particularly egregious in the football program.

People also seem to forget that Briles wasn't the only one dealt with in the BOR's response. Starr and McCaw were also removed. We fired our university president! And rightly so! But it seems what we fans only care about is the firing of Briles. That's because we loved his winning program.

I'm not an attorney, so I don't know the legal intricacies of this case. But I don't think there will be anything that will make Briles or BU look any better from more evidence coming out.

The thing I care most about is that BU failed sexual assault victims. Not just in athletics, but across the boards. It seems our general school policy was to shame women, and that's unacceptable on a Christian basis.

C. Jordan said:

---

chriscbear said:

---

The rumor on BF.Com before Briles etc got dismissed was the PH Report was critical of Greek Life at Baylor. Could this be part of the reason its never been made public ? Embarrassing info ?

---

If people would take the time to read the PH report, it's broadly critical of BU, not just football. In fact, it clearly points out the BU broadly failed in its handling of sexual assault complaints. It just says that its failures were particularly egregious in the football program.

People also seem to forget that Briles wasn't the only one dealt with in the BOR's response. Starr and McCaw were also removed. We fired our university president! And rightly so! But it seems what we fans only care about is the firing of Briles. That's because we loved his winning program.

I'm not an attorney, so I don't know the legal intricacies of this case. But I don't think there will be anything that will make Briles or BU look any better from more evidence coming out.

The thing I care most about is that BU failed sexual assault victims. Not just in athletics, but across the boards. It seems our general school policy was to shame women, and that's unacceptable on a Christian basis.

---

Good assessment. The only unseen action is that of the Board's self-regulation. No one knows what steps it took to correct its own failures in this tragedy beyond disbanding a committee or two. There is no "pass" for any governance board charged with setting policies and then making sure they are enforced. 'That is not a buck that an be passed to the administration. As I have said repeatedly, this was a failure at every level and the ultimate responsibility lies with the governance board.

My stance on the BOR there at the time of the scandal is that they all need to step down regardless of their involvement.

I could care less if it's fair to them or not. They're a problem to a lot of people and it hurts no one to replace them.

Doc Holliday said:

---

My stance on the BOR there at the time of the scandal
Is that they all need to step down regardless of their involvement.

I could care less if it's fair to them or not. They're a problem to a lot of people and it hurts no one to replace them.

---

Yes, the potted plants that sat around and did nothing were every bit as culpable as the four or five that were calling the shots.

Evil flourishes when good men (and women) do nothing.

SSadler said:

---

Limited giving character reference for Stranger.

Greatness. Seriously.

Two of my favorite people/posters--their ability to see thru and to cut thru bullsh*t is beyond question.

Some day when I grow up I hope I have a bit of those two virtues.

---

please, don't grow up.

BaylorHistory said:

---

CNC said:

---

Ghostrider said:

---

chriscbear said:

---

The rumor on BF.Com before Briles etc got dismissed was the PH Report was critical of Greek Life at Baylor. Could this be part of the reason its never been made public ? Embarrassing info ?

---

I have never heard this rumor

---

I had thought the problems were campus-wide (Greeks included), not just the football team as the media thinks.

Couple of years ago, there was this - https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/11/us/baylor-ex-frat-president-rape-allegation

IIRC then-Title IX coordinator said the issues were campus wide. Football team maybe made up 5% or less of the complaints.

---

Yeah certainly a university wide issue, but if the football team made up 5% of complaints then that's a serious issue considering they make up what .7% of the student body?

---

Disproportionality is a material issue, but it does not obscure the reality that the problem was ALSO serious throughout campus. Worse, we had systemic governance and administrative failure in dealing with those problems.

C. Jordan said:

---

chriscbear said:

---

The rumor on BF.Com before Briles etc got dismissed was the PH Report was critical of Greek Life at Baylor. Could this be part of the reason its never been made public ? Embarrassing info ?

---

If people would take the time to read the PH report, it's broadly critical of BU, not just football. In fact, it clearly points out the BU broadly failed in its handling of sexual assault complaints. It just says that its failures were particularly egregious in the football program.

People also seem to forget that Briles wasn't the only one dealt with in the BOR's response. Starr and McCaw were also removed. We fired our university president! And rightly so! But it seems what we fans only care about is the firing of Briles. That's because we loved his winning program.

I'm not an attorney, so I don't know the legal intricacies of this case. But I don't think there will be anything that will make Briles or BU look any better from more evidence coming out.

The thing I care most about is that BU failed sexual assault victims. Not just in athletics, but across the boards. It seems our general school policy was to shame women, and that's unacceptable on a Christian basis.

---

Excuse me what PH report? According to Baylor, PH only provided an oral report. The Finding of Facts was released a statement from the board.

On the other hand I agree that the most important thing is how BU failed sexual assault victims. I just fear that they blamed it on athletics in the media to cover up the other issues. They fired some people, but there were others that were able to keep their jobs that should have been fired such as Ramsower. I just want the truth to come out so that we as the Baylor family can make sure that the Board is now doing right by victims, that they are taking appropriate steps to try to prevent future victimization, and that victims can be taken care of properly in the future.

C. Jordan said:

---

chriscbear said:

---

The rumor on BF.Com before Briles etc got dismissed was the PH Report was critical of Greek Life at Baylor. Could this be part of the reason its never been made public ? Embarrassing info ?

---

If people would take the time to read the PH report, it's broadly critical of BU, not just football. In fact, it clearly points out the BU broadly failed in its handling of sexual assault complaints. It just says that its failures were particularly egregious in the football program.

People also seem to forget that Briles wasn't the only one dealt with in the BOR's response. Starr and McCaw were also removed. We fired our university president! And rightly so! But it seems what we fans only care about is the firing of Briles. That's because we loved his winning program.

I'm not an attorney, so I don't know the legal intricacies of this case. But I don't think there will be anything that will make Briles or BU look any better from more evidence coming out.

The thing I care most about is that BU failed sexual assault victims. Not just in athletics, but across the boards. It seems our general school policy was to shame women, and that's unacceptable on a Christian basis.

---

There is no PH report. The Findings of Facts that you are referring to was authored by a handful of Regents. PH's oral presentation to the BOR included only cases from within the athletic department; none from the part of the student population responsible for the 95% of T9 complaints.

Malbec said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

chriscbear said:

---

The rumor on BF.Com before Briles etc got dismissed was the PH Report was critical of Greek Life at Baylor. Could this be part of the reason its never been made public ? Embarrassing info ?

---

If people would take the time to read the PH report, it's broadly critical of BU, not just football. In fact, it clearly points out the BU broadly failed in its handling of sexual assault complaints. It just says that its failures were particularly egregious in the football program.

People also seem to forget that Briles wasn't the only one dealt with in the BOR's response. Starr and McCaw were also removed. We fired our university president! And rightly so! But it seems what we fans only care about is the firing of Briles. That's because we loved his winning program.

I'm not an attorney, so I don't know the legal intricacies of this case. But I don't think there will be anything that will make Briles or BU look any better from more evidence coming out.

The thing I care most about is that BU failed sexual assault victims. Not just in athletics, but across the boards. It seems our general school policy was to shame women, and that's unacceptable on a Christian basis.

---

There is no PH report. The Findings of Facts that you are referring to was authored by a handful of Regents. PH's oral presentation to the BOR included only cases from within the athletic department; none from the part of the student population responsible for the 95% of T9 complaints.

---

This fact alone should be the actual scandal.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Malbec said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

chriscbear said:

---

The rumor on BF.Com before Briles etc got dismissed was the PH Report was critical of Greek Life at Baylor. Could this be part of the reason its never been made public ? Embarrassing info ?

---

If people would take the time to read the PH report, it's broadly critical of BU, not just football. In fact, it clearly points out the BU broadly failed in its handling of sexual assault complaints. It just says that its failures were particularly egregious in the football program.

People also seem to forget that Briles wasn't the only one dealt with in the BOR's response. Starr and McCaw were also removed. We fired our university president! And rightly so! But it seems what we fans only care about is the firing of Briles. That's because we loved his winning program.

I'm not an attorney, so I don't know the legal intricacies of this case. But I don't think there will be anything that will make Briles or BU look any better from more evidence coming out.

The thing I care most about is that BU failed sexual assault victims. Not just in athletics, but across the boards. It seems our general school policy was to shame women, and that's unacceptable on a Christian basis.

---

There is no PH report. The Findings of Facts that you are referring to was authored by a handful of Regents. PH's oral presentation to the BOR included only cases from within the athletic department; none from the part of the student population responsible for the 95% of T9 complaints.

---

This fact alone should be the actual scandal.

---

it's never the crime that gets Baylor in trouble, it's always the cover-up.

as the Kingston Trio once sang . . . When will they ever learn?

Malbec said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

chriscbear said:

---

The rumor on BF.Com before Briles etc got dismissed was the PH Report was critical of Greek Life at Baylor. Could this be part of the reason its never been made public ? Embarrassing info ?

---

If people would take the time to read the PH report, it's broadly critical of BU, not just football. In fact, it clearly points out the BU broadly failed in its handling of sexual assault complaints. It just says that its failures were particularly egregious in the football program.

People also seem to forget that Briles wasn't the only one dealt with in the BOR's response. Starr and McCaw were also removed. We fired our university president! And rightly so! But it seems what we fans only care about is the firing of Briles. That's because we loved his winning program.

I'm not an attorney, so I don't know the legal intricacies of this case. But I don't think there will be anything that will make Briles or BU look any better from more evidence coming out.

The thing I care most about is that BU failed sexual assault victims. Not just in athletics, but across the boards. It seems our general school policy was to shame women, and that's unacceptable on a Christian basis.

---

There is no PH report. The Findings of Facts that you are referring to was authored by a handful of Regents. PH's oral presentation to the BOR included only cases from within the athletic department; none from the part of the student population responsible for the 95% of T9 complaints.

---

What is your source for your claim that PH didn't write its own summary report?

sombear said:

---

Malbec said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

chriscbear said:

---

The rumor on BF.Com before Briles etc got dismissed was the PH Report was critical of Greek Life at Baylor. Could this be part of the reason its never been made public ? Embarrassing info ?

---

If people would take the time to read the PH report, it's broadly critical of BU, not just football. In fact, it clearly points out the BU broadly failed in its handling of sexual assault complaints. It just says that its failures were particularly egregious in the football program.

People also seem to forget that Briles wasn't the only one dealt with in the BOR's response. Starr and McCaw were also removed. We fired our university president! And rightly so! But it seems what we fans only care about is the firing of Briles. That's because we loved his winning program.

I'm not an attorney, so I don't know the legal intricacies of this case. But I don't think there will be anything that will make Briles or BU look any better from more evidence coming out.

The thing I care most about is that BU failed sexual assault victims. Not just in athletics, but across the boards. It seems our general school policy was to shame women, and that's unacceptable on a Christian basis.

---

There is no PH report. The Findings of Facts that you are referring to was authored by a handful of Regents. PH's oral presentation to the BOR included only cases from within the athletic department; none from the part of the student population responsible for the 95% of T9 complaints.

---

What is your source for your claim that PH didn't write its own summary report?

---

That is irrelevant. Here is the quote from C.Jordan:

Quote:

---

If people would take the time to read the PH report, it's broadly critical of BU, not just football. In fact, it clearly points out the BU broadly failed in its handling of sexual assault complaints. It just says that its failures were particularly egregious in the football program.

---

The whole point of Baylor trying to assert privilege on PH documents is to prevent them from being made public, yet here is this poster suggesting that we all take time to "read the PH report." There is no question that there is a load of work product that was assembled by the then-PH attorneys, Baylor's after-the-fact remodeling of the scope of work notwithstanding. As to the nature of the presentation, I refer you to the series of depositions from various regents and their chronicle of the Philly strategy assembly.

[Because of the unique structure of Pepper Hamilton's investigation, no documentation has been made public to date. Baylor's refusal to provide any details on the firm's investigation likely protects some former staffers, while others suffer from an inability to clear their name. One thing is for certain the move to limit Pepper Hamilton's report to a single oral presentation was made by Baylor to protect Baylor.]

[Finally, Baylor made a truly bonkers proposal: they would not mention Pepper Hamilton at trial and asked the court to prohibit all parties and witnesses from bringing up the firm or its work. That, in Baylor's mind, would uphold the work product protection. The Court wasn't interested, finding that solution "would require witnesses to testify in half truths in order to pretend that Baylor conducted its own investigation and originated its own policy reforms. Baylor is effectively asking its witnesses to lie."]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bannersociety.com/platform/amp/2020/6/16/21293401/baylor-2016-investigation-federal-lawsuit-pepper-hamilton-documents

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Malbec said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

chriscbear said:

---

The rumor on BF.Com before Briles etc got dismissed was the PH Report was critical of Greek Life at Baylor. Could this be part of the reason its never been made public ? Embarrassing info ?

---

If people would take the time to read the PH report, it's broadly critical of BU, not just football. In fact, it clearly points out the BU broadly failed in its handling of sexual assault complaints. It just says that its failures were particularly egregious in the football program.

People also seem to forget that Briles wasn't the only one dealt with in the BOR's response. Starr and McCaw were also removed. We fired our university president! And rightly so! But it seems what we fans only care about is the firing of Briles. That's because we loved his winning program.

I'm not an attorney, so I don't know the legal intricacies of this case. But I don't think there will be anything that will make Briles or BU look any better from more evidence coming out.

The thing I care most about is that BU failed sexual assault victims. Not just in athletics, but across the boards. It seems our general school policy was to shame women, and that's unacceptable on a Christian basis.

---

There is no PH report. The Findings of Facts that you are referring to was authored by a handful of Regents. PH's oral presentation to the BOR included only cases from within the athletic department; none from the part of the student population responsible for the 95% of T9 complaints.

---

What is your source for your claim that PH didn't write its own summary report?

---

That is irrelevant. Here is the quote from C.Jordan:

Quote:

---

If people would take the time to read the PH report, it's broadly critical of BU, not just football. In fact, it clearly points out the BU broadly failed in its handling of sexual assault complaints. It just says that its failures were particularly egregious in the football program.

---

The whole point of Baylor trying to assert privilege on PH documents is to prevent them from being made public, yet here is this poster suggesting that we all take time to "read the PH report." There is no question that there is a load of work product that was assembled by the then-PH attorneys, Baylor's after-the-fact remodeling of the scope of work notwithstanding. As to the nature of the presentation, I refer you to the series of depositions from various regents and their chronicle of the Philly strategy assembly.

---

You must have thought I was arguing with you. I wasn't. That's the first I'd read that PH didn't write its own summary. I'm familiar with this process and was surprised and would like to know more. That's all. But I do agree with other posters who say that PH's recs and the Board's own summary report make it clear it was a campus-wide problem.

I think the Kingston Trio appearance was cancelled but years later got to appear at BU?

sombear said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Malbec said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

chriscbear said:

---

The rumor on BF.Com before Briles etc got dismissed was the PH Report was critical of Greek Life at Baylor. Could this be part of the reason its never been made public ? Embarrassing info ?

---

If people would take the time to read the PH report, it's broadly critical of BU, not just football. In fact, it clearly points out the BU broadly failed in its handling of sexual assault complaints. It just says that its failures were particularly egregious in the football program.

People also seem to forget that Briles wasn't the only one dealt with in the BOR's response. Starr and McCaw were also removed. We fired our university president! And rightly so! But it seems what we fans only care about is the firing of Briles. That's because we loved his winning program.

I'm not an attorney, so I don't know the legal intricacies of this case. But I don't think there will be anything that will make Briles or BU look any better from more evidence coming out.

The thing I care most about is that BU failed sexual assault victims. Not just in athletics, but across the boards. It seems our general school policy was to shame women, and that's unacceptable on a Christian basis.

---

There is no PH report. The Findings of Facts that you are referring to was authored by a handful of Regents. PH's oral presentation to the BOR included only cases from within the athletic department; none from the part of the student population responsible for the 95% of T9 complaints.

---

What is your source for your claim that PH didn't write its own summary report?

---

That is irrelevant. Here is the quote from C.Jordan:

Quote:

---

If people would take the time to read the PH report, it's broadly critical of BU, not just football. In fact, it clearly points out the BU broadly failed in its handling of sexual assault complaints. It just says that its failures were particularly egregious in the football program.

---

The whole point of Baylor trying to assert privilege on PH documents is to prevent them from being made public, yet here is this poster suggesting that we all take time to "read the PH report." There is no question that there is a load of work product that was assembled by the then-PH attorneys, Baylor's after-the-fact remodeling of the scope of work notwithstanding. As to the nature of the presentation, I refer you to the series of depositions from various regents and their chronicle of the Philly strategy assembly.

---

You must have thought I was arguing with you. I wasn't. That's the first I'd read that PH didn't write its own summary. I'm familiar with this process and was surprised and would like to know more. That's all. But I do agree with other posters who say that PH's recs and the Board's own summary report make it clear it was a campus-wide problem.

---

No, I was speaking to the post I quoted from C.Jordan, I didn't think you were arguing. My policy with regard to this issue has been the same since the beginning. I won't discuss or divulge anything except what has been revealed in the press or in court or public documents without express permission.

saykay said:

---

I mean... yeah... no one who remains was a part of the issue... other than the entire BOR who was in place then and is still in place now, sans a couple of throw-in alumni elected regents... all of whom collectively make every major decision for the university... other than that entire room full of self-appointed & self-backfilled mostly male leaders... yes, other than that, we cleaned house.

---

Not true. The BOR may ultimately be responsible for what happens at Baylor, but they did not make the decisions that got Baylor in trouble and the people who did are gone.

Greenbear said:

---

saykay said:

---

I mean... yeah... no one who remains was a part of the issue... other than the entire BOR who was in place then and is still in place now, sans a couple of throw-in alumni elected regents... all of whom collectively make every major decision for the university... other than that entire room full of self-appointed & self-backfilled mostly male leaders... yes, other than that, we cleaned house.

---

Not true. The BOR may ultimately be responsible for what happens at Baylor, but they did not make the decisions that got Baylor in trouble and the people who did are gone.

---

Truth?

You can't handle the truth. If you're interested in the truth, how about answering my question from two or three days ago? Are you on the payroll at Baylor University?

There is no evidence of a cover up. There is a time to shut up and let the attorney's do the talking and negotiating. Some, who hate Baylor, want to make it appear that some things are hidden. They are not. Not everything is for you to read. Not everything is for you to know. Baylor has taken major steps off and on campus to make it a safer community. Look at the stats from UT and A&M on sexual assaults and you will conclude that it is a serious issue on all campuses. Baylor has and is addressing that.

You have never been involved in the legal system if you believe that you don't have to defend yourself when someone files a lawsuit against you. As far as the young ladies are concerned, they decided to go after Baylor - some for reason, maybe some for money. Over time, and with the discretion of their attorney, they will settle.

Stranger said:

---

Truth?

You can't handle the truth. If you're interested in the truth, how about answering my question from two or three days ago? Are you on the payroll at Baylor University?

---

The question is completely silly. It presupposes that if someone doesn't side with the conspiracy theorists that they must be on Baylor payroll. I am a football season ticket holder. I graduated from Baylor as did my father/sister/son. I attend Baylor basketball games. I am not affiliated with Baylor University in any way.

I just don't subscribe to the hysteria. I know what a troll looks like. I know there are always people who love to hate. I am not young. I have seen it before. I am upset at what Briles did. I am upset at what McCaw allowed. I am disappointed that Ken Starr didn't have a Title IX program in place. Baylor's BOR has major issues and we have issues internally with different groups in-fighting, but I don't believe those people were individually involved in anything that had to do with the football scandal. Ultimately they are responsible for the direction of the university. I believe they cleaned house and did it well. I love the hires made by our current AD and administration. I believe there has been serious remorse from the scandal and they have faced it appropriately. I also believe that a big part of their job is to defend the university. That is not the same as coverup. Until you, or someone else, offers me proof of coverup - beyond some articles written in newspapers or on-line that attack Baylor for positioning by attorneys- I will continue to support the changes made after the football scandal.

saykay said:

---

Greenbear said:

---

Stranger and Max

We don't need you on here telling us what you believe to be the truth or outcome. Posting articles is not truth. If you are truly a Baylor fan, and sorry I don't believe it, then just wait until all is done and comment. Everything else is being put out there by people who hate Baylor, want to position the media, or have an agenda. There is no balance to your reports or openness to see how it turns out. Both of you have opinions that have already been formed.

Most of us want this over, wanted this over long ago. This isn't a regent issue, but an athletic department and administration that wasn't doing the right things. Baylor administration has an obligation to defend itself. We have made major changes and no one remains who was part of the issue, from what I can tell. We cleaned house. Where is that dialogue?

What remains are legal issues with settlements pending. It is normal, and responsible, for our administration to follow the lead of their attorney's as they try to close this sad chapter.

---

I mean... yeah... no one who remains was a part of the issue... other than the entire BOR who was in place then and is still in place now, sans a couple of throw-in alumni elected regents... all of whom collectively make every major decision for the university... other than that entire room full of self-appointed & self-backfilled mostly male leaders... yes, other than that, we cleaned house.

---

Actually there has been significant turnover, and almost half are women. Other than that great point.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

I think the Kingston Trio appearance was cancelled but years later got to appear at BU?

---

FWIW, they performed with the Waco Symphony in about 2004 or 2005. It was at the Grand Lodge of Texas instead of the usual Waco Hall venue.

Greenbear said:

---

Baylor has every right to protect attorney-client privilege as anyone else. I get that Trolls are just part of the package on this forum, but what a load of crap. Just go away...

---

If it is truly attorney client work product. Baylor can't hide evidence by making the claim.

Greenbear said:

---

There is no evidence of a cover up. There is a time to shut up and let the attorney's do the talking and negotiating. Some, who hate Baylor, want to make it appear that some things are hidden. They are not. Not everything is for you to read. Not everything is for you to know. Baylor has taken major steps off and on campus to make it a safer community. Look at the stats from UT and A&M on sexual assaults and you will conclude that it is a serious issue on all campuses. Baylor has and is addressing that.

You have never been involved in the legal system if you believe that you don't have to defend yourself when someone files a lawsuit against you. As far as the young ladies are concerned, they decided to go after Baylor - some for reason, maybe some for money. Over time, and with the discretion of their attorney, they will settle.

---

Or get a jury verdict, the same as they would for any of the other secular schools like Baylor listed above.

whiterock said:

---

BaylorHistory said:

---

CNC said:

---

Ghostrider said:

---

chriscbear said:

---

The rumor on BF.Com before Briles etc got dismissed was the PH Report was critical of Greek Life at Baylor. Could this be part of the reason its never been made public ? Embarrassing info ?

---

I have never heard this rumor

---

I had thought the problems were campus-wide (Greeks included), not just the football team as the media thinks.

Couple of years ago, there was this - https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/11/us/baylor-ex-frat-president-rape-allegation

IIRC then-Title IX coordinator said the issues were campus wide. Football team maybe made up 5% or less of the complaints.

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Yeah certainly a university wide issue, but if the football team made up 5% of complaints then that's a serious issue considering they make up what .7% of the student body?

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Disproportionality is a material issue, but it does not obscure the reality that the problem was ALSO serious throughout campus. Worse, we had systemic governance and administrative failure in dealing with those problems.

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Especially when our regents used the 5% that the public would find the most interesting and juicy as a bright shiny object - even having a piece published in the WSJ to make it sound as bad as possible (still unfathomable to me this happened - a clear breach of fiduciary duty - too bad we have no shareholders or other stakeholders to enforce anything) - as the 95% is functionally no more than a little white noise in the background.

I also wonder how much, given the overall environment of the PH "investigation" and our regents' subsequent actions, you can really put stock in this 95/5 number as being some kind of bedrock statistic.

No question there were problems (one very large one named Tevin Elliot, and others) on the football roster. At the same time, as posted above, there is also no question that these problems exist on campuses and in football programs everywhere and are a condition of life in that era. That doesn't mean you accept them or ignore them. It also doesn't mean you voluntarily carve a scarlet R on your institution's forehead, then come out of meetings telling journalists that you were "crying out to God" and otherwise virtue signaling to save your own reputational ass at the expense of the institution for which you are supposedly a fiduciary.

Just about the worst crisis management I can fathom, and in large part stoked by the fact that we were already infighting about other petty BS.

Frankly, I'd just as soon see this sucker keep playing out and see what floats to the top. We already branded ourselves as Rape U. Let's see some facts.

Robert Wilson said:

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whiterock said:

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BaylorHistory said:

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CNC said:

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Ghostrider said:

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chriscbear said:

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The rumor on BF.Com before Briles etc got dismissed was the PH Report was critical of Greek Life at Baylor. Could this be part of the reason its never been made public ? Embarrassing info ?

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I have never heard this rumor

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I had thought the problems were campus-wide (Greeks included), not just the football team as the media thinks.

Couple of years ago, there was this - https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/11/us/baylor-ex-frat-president-rape-allegation

IIRC then-Title IX coordinator said the issues were campus wide. Football team maybe made up 5% or less of the complaints.

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Yeah certainly a university wide issue, but if the football team made up 5% of complaints then that's a serious issue considering they make up what .7% of the student body?

---

Disproportionality is a material issue, but it does not obscure the reality that the problem was ALSO serious throughout campus. Worse, we had systemic governance and administrative failure in dealing with those problems.

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Especially when our regents used the 5% that the public would find the most interesting and juicy as a bright shiny object - even having a piece published in the WSJ to make it sound as bad as possible (still unfathomable to me this happened - a clear breach of fiduciary duty - too bad we have no shareholders or other stakeholders to enforce anything) - as the 95% is functionally no more than a little white noise in the background.

I also wonder how much, given the overall environment of the PH "investigation" and our regents' subsequent actions, you can really put stock in this 95/5 number as being some kind of bedrock statistic.

No question there were problems (one very large one named Tevin Elliot, and others) on the football roster. At the same time, as posted above, there is also no question that these problems exist on campuses and in football programs everywhere and are a condition of life in that era. That doesn't mean you accept them or ignore them. It also doesn't mean you voluntarily carve a scarlet R on your institution's forehead, then come out of meetings telling journalists that you were "crying out to God" and otherwise virtue signaling to save your own reputational ass at the expense of the institution for which you are supposedly a fiduciary.

Just about the worst crisis management I can fathom, and in large part stoked by the fact that we were already infighting about other petty BS.

Frankly, I'd just as soon see this sucker keep playing out and see what floats to the top. We already branded ourselves as Rape U. Let's see some facts.

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Well said.

Robert Wilson said:

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Frankly, I'd just as soon see this sucker keep playing out and see what floats to the top. We already branded ourselves as Rape U. Let's see some facts.

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This is the only thing we can do. That is why this articles are meaningless. Until we get resolution we won't know what we want. We may not even then as we may settle to protect some of the faults of our university. I do hope we have learned from our mistakes.

Greenbear said:

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saykay said:

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I mean... yeah... no one who remains was a part of the issue... other than the entire BOR who was in place then and is still in place now, sans a couple of throw-in alumni elected regents... all of whom collectively make every major decision for the university... other than that entire room full of self-appointed & self-backfilled mostly male leaders... yes, other than that, we cleaned house.

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Not true. The BOR may ultimately be responsible for what happens at Baylor, but they did not make the decisions that got Baylor in trouble and the people who did are gone.

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Yessir. Hence the shared burden of responsibility for the management of the crisis due to non-management of employees and Title 9 specifically.

drahthaar said:

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Greenbear said:

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saykay said:

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I mean... yeah... no one who remains was a part of the issue... other than the entire BOR who was in place then and is still in place now, sans a couple of throw-in alumni elected regents... all of whom collectively make every major decision for the university... other than that entire room full of self-appointed & self-backfilled mostly male leaders... yes, other than that, we cleaned house.

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Not true. The BOR may ultimately be responsible for what happens at Baylor, but they did not make the decisions that got Baylor in trouble and the people who did are gone.

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Yessir. Hence the shared burden of responsibility for the management of the crisis due to non-management of employees and Title 9 specifically.

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The BOR didn't make the decisions required to keep Baylor out of trouble. Failed oversight of management.