Any one watch this show (or any of the other Star Wars shows- Andor, Boba Fett, Obi Wan)? I still watch all of them but feel like the writers are getting lazier and lazier while ignoring anything else from the history of shows and movies.

For example, having Obi wan and Darth Vader meet and fight feels so forced as you know neither is going to die, it sort of ruins the line from A New Hope about the last time they met Obi being the master but now Vader is.

A few others would be:

1. How in the Mandalorian it is supposed to 5 years after the Empire was defeated (in season 1) and now about 8-10 years by season 3 but the Empire seems to still be very strong, able to still get recruits, has money to get new equipment, places to build new equipment and seems really strong.
1A. In season 1 Gideon was able to build the Dark troopers since the Empire was defeated but then he lost his ship and 2 bases just to pop up later with a new base and new Beskar wearing storm troopers.


2. The New Republic is incredibly weak and getting weaker right away which doesn't help explain how they lasted another 30+ years.

3. The remnant Imperial forces seem strong and like they are already becoming the First Order and it doesn't seem to explain how it took them another 30+ years to get to the point where they could challenge the New Republic in the new trilogy.

4. Beskar is supposed to stop light sabers but in this last episode the light saber looking weapon went right through some Beskar.

5. They keep introducing new characters that were not in the prequels or original trilogies with no real explanation of why they weren't in either one- like in Andor with Luthen who appears to be a major player in the birth of the Rebellion but no where in the OT. Or the whole Ahsoka character.


I still like the shows it just seems Disney is making the whole Star Wars universe a jumbled mess (sort of like they did with Marvel and trying to explain why the new characters weren't around for the fights against Thanos or even the bad guys not around) of events contradicting each other, story lines being erased, retconned, or children coming up with ideas (return of Palpatine and the I am every Sith/Jedi lines).

Disney ruins everything

Watched the first season of the Mandalorian and liked it, but it got boring fairly quickly. Disney has completely saturated the Star Wars market, and they completely pooped the bed with the sequels which has soured me on the entire franchise. It's a real shame, because I was a huge Star Wars nerd as a kid

I actually think the opposite. I think Disney has done a really good job with Star Wars in all the tv series. Including the cartoon ones. I don't know if you saw the new final season of Clone Wars they did but that was excellent and showed another vantage point of the entire Revenge of the Sith movie through the eyes of Asoka. The Obi Wan series I thought was really well done.

I actually think they didn't do so well with the sequel trilogy with Snoke and the inexplicable Palpatine still being alive.

PartyBear said:

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I actually think the opposite. I think Disney has done a really good job with Star Wars in all the tv series. Including the cartoon ones. I don't know if you saw the new final season of Clone Wars they did but that was excellent and showed another vantage point of the entire Revenge of the Sith movie through the eyes of Asoka. The Obi Wan series I thought was really well done.

I actually think they didn't do so well with the sequel trilogy with Snoke and the inexplicable Palpatine still being alive.

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Part of it for me is the nature of streaming. When there was one really good show on TV and you had to wait a week in between episodes, it built up the anticipation for it each week. For me, I would rather there be one really good show with a new episode being released every week rather than a bunch of different episodes across several series being dropped at once that that are just mildly entertaining

That is how Disney drops the Star Wars series. Each episode is dropped the same set night per week until the season is over.

Andor is great. The writing is the best Star Wars since Empire Strikes Back. I've recommended to non Star Wars friends. It breaks the mold of SW. The characters have lives outside of being rebels and storm troopers. They have to make difficult decisions. The world(galaxy) isn't black and white.

Mandalorian is fun. Ground breaking? Overall no but for Star Wars a bit. It's a fun watch while I eat dinner.

Book of Bobba Fett was only so so for me. Half the show ended up being Mandalorian season 2.5. Missed opportunities with Fett. The Vespa riding teenage gang was… not a great idea.

Big fan of the Obi-Wan character. Sir Alec Guinness remains the only actor nominated for an academy award for a Star Wars film. Ewan did a stellar job in the horribly written prequels, but the new show left me wanting a lot more. I'm fine with a build up to a Vader confrontation but Vader needs to think Obi-Wan is dead by the end of it.

For fun here's my ranking of the movies:
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. New Hope
3. Return of the Jedi
4. Rogue One
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Force Awakens
7. Watching paint dry
T10. Phantom Menace/Clone Wars/Rise of Skywalker
11. The Last Jedi

Lucas forgot how to write for episodes 1 and 2. John Williams and Ewan did what they could to make up.
Disney screwed up everything after a good enough start with 7. It was safe but left potential with some new characters. 8 was a swing to revamp SW and missed. 9 was somewhat of a retcon of 8.

PartyBear said:

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I actually think the opposite. I think Disney has done a really good job with Star Wars in all the tv series. Including the cartoon ones. I don't know if you saw the new final season of Clone Wars they did but that was excellent and showed another vantage point of the entire Revenge of the Sith movie through the eyes of Asoka. The Obi Wan series I thought was really well done.

I actually think they didn't do so well with the sequel trilogy with Snoke and the inexplicable Palpatine still being alive.

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I can't get into the cartoons. So far the only one I have tried is clone wars and season one is so boring and childish. It is badly written, on the level of a child and again fails to have any hype when the characters get captured. go up against Greivous or anything like that as I know that no one is going to die because they have to make it to Revenge of the Sith.

Maybe the other seasons get more adult and better and I will have to give it a try.

I just can't get that behind Asoka as a main character when she was not in the OT or even the sequels. Just 100% absent and no explanation.

Same for them trying to introduce Thrawn. No interest in him and him being gone/coming back.

boykin_spaniel said:

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Andor is great. The writing is the best Star Wars since Empire Strikes Back. I've recommended to non Star Wars friends. It breaks the mold of SW. The characters have lives outside of being rebels and storm troopers. They have to make difficult decisions. The world(galaxy) isn't black and white.

Mandalorian is fun. Ground breaking? Overall no but for Star Wars a bit. It's a fun watch while I eat dinner.

Book of Bobba Fett was only so so for me. Half the show ended up being Mandalorian season 2.5. Missed opportunities with Fett. The Vespa riding teenage gang was… not a great idea.

Big fan of the Obi-Wan character. Sir Alec Guinness remains the only actor nominated for an academy award for a Star Wars film. Ewan did a stellar job in the horribly written prequels, but the new show left me wanting a lot more. I'm fine with a build up to a Vader confrontation but Vader needs to think Obi-Wan is dead by the end of it.

For fun here's my ranking of the movies:
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. New Hope
3. Return of the Jedi
4. Rogue One
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Force Awakens
7. Watching paint dry
T10. Phantom Menace/Clone Wars/Rise of Skywalker
11. The Last Jedi

Lucas forgot how to write for episodes 1 and 2. John Williams and Ewan did what they could to make up.
Disney screwed up everything after a good enough start with 7. It was safe but left potential with some new characters. 8 was a swing to revamp SW and missed. 9 was somewhat of a retcon of 8.

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I like Andor but still think it violates #5 I listed above- introducing new characters that are absent or not even mentioned in the original trilogy or ever mentioned in the other 2 trilogies.

Your list is not bad. The sequels were such a mess with no clear outline of what they were doing in them when they started. Which is why they had to redo so much of it.

7 was a New Hope remake. But it did have potential. Who was the old guy in the desert at the start? They could have done more with him. Who was Snoke- could have done more with him and just wasted him next movie. Who was Rey/her parents- ruined that later. Captain Phasma- missed opporutnity.
8 was just awful and erased so much of what could have been. Snoke, Rey's parents, Captain Phasma, etc. The whole casino planet was stupid.
9. Had potential but the return of Palpatine ruined it. Especially with the childish lines I am all the Sith/Jedi.

In all 3 I thought the whole idea of no one in the galaxy caring that the First Order was around except a band of about 100 resistance fighters was just silly.

My guess is Luthen dies. Being a rebel is risky work. He also tries to work in the shadows and not draw attention to himself like any good spy.

I don't mind Andor introducing some new characters. There's an entire galaxy to play around with. Not like every rebel was chilling with Han, Luke, Leia, and Chewy. Plus i like the lack of force powers. It makes the empire actually scary in situations like when they get buzzed by an imperial fighter before the heist. It's like a Stuka coming in during WWII.

Like you I struggle with animated stuff, so haven't seen those shows. Perhaps they make Ahsoka's absence plausible?

The old desert man, the cantina proprietor who finds Luke's old lightsaber, Poe, Fin, Rey, Snoke, Luke, Leia, and Kylo Ren all had solid potential. Poe never grew up despite destroying the entire rebel fleet. Old man died with nothing more. Cantina alien girl disappeared with no word on the lightsaber. Fin was given a beyond dumb side quest with no point to the plot. Snoke just dies. Luke is an angry old man. Leia does force stuff that makes no sense(floating through space). Laura Dern shows up with blue hair simply to antagonize Poe without any character development or real plot. Rey is given immense power without any training and masters it very quickly. Kylo Ren could've had so much more depth(I'd probably argue he's the best character of the new trilogy). The cast was talented and game and given crap to work with. Same with the prequels.

boykin_spaniel said:

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My guess is Luthen dies. Being a rebel is risky work. He also tries to work in the shadows and not draw attention to himself like any good spy.

I don't mind Andor introducing some new characters. There's an entire galaxy to play around with. Not like every rebel was chilling with Han, Luke, Leia, and Chewy. Plus i like the lack of force powers. It makes the empire actually scary in situations like when they get buzzed by an imperial fighter before the heist. It's like a Stuka coming in during WWII.

Like you I struggle with animated stuff, so haven't seen those shows. Perhaps they make Ahsoka's absence plausible?

The old desert man, the cantina proprietor who finds Luke's old lightsaber, Poe, Fin, Rey, Snoke, Luke, Leia, and Kylo Ren all had solid potential. Poe never grew up despite destroying the entire rebel fleet. Old man died with nothing more. Cantina alien girl disappeared with no word on the lightsaber. Fin was given a beyond dumb side quest with no point to the plot. Snoke just dies. Luke is an angry old man. Leia does force stuff that makes no sense(floating through space). Laura Dern shows up with blue hair simply to antagonize Poe without any character development or real plot. Rey is given immense power without any training and masters it very quickly. Kylo Ren could've had so much more depth(I'd probably argue he's the best character of the new trilogy). The cast was talented and game and given crap to work with. Same with the prequels.

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Good point on Luthen. He probably dies soon and working so much in the shadows where basically only his shop hand and Mon Motha know him it probably would take a long time and lots of people telling his story to get his name knows. Sort of how in reality Washington's spies were not even all known until 200 years after the Revolutionary war or we are still learning details of WW2 figures who were spies, double agents, etc.

To me it isn't so much the introduction of new characters- it is the introduction of major characters like an Asoka who take no part in the OT and could realistically still be alive in the sequel trilogy (given how we know some species and Jedi can live long, long times- Chewie or Yoda) but seems to just completely disconnect from any happenings in the galaxy.

Your last paragraph is spot on. So much potential and wasted stories. Plus the way they create silly excuses for some characters to be absent. The cantina lady has her building blown up by the First Order but when she has a chance to get back at them she is "too busy" with some trade dispute?? I mean I get it she was in the middle of a battle but why did she not join up with the Resistance to go after the FO right after the end of the first movie? Just doesn't make much sense.

Luthen will die an unknown hero like other underground war heroes. Not like Andor and Jen Erso were discussed in a New Hope. They did their job and then it was Leia's turn to do hers.

I wouldn't hold your breath for Disney to answer every question on where certain characters are during the rebellion or fight against the first order. Maybe the new shows will address it. Why aren't the Mandalorian's assisting the republic against the first order? They clearly have no love for the empire. My guess is they answer that question in someway before the show concludes, but maybe not.

Asoka actually is one of the best characters of Star Wars and adds complexity to the Jedi as she leaves the order due to being disillusioned by the order. Her character shows that one can see corruption with the order but still be on their side in the big picture one does not have to turn to the dark side and want them all dead in response like Dooku presumably and later Anakin.

Now on to Luthen he seems to be headed to showing complexity in the galaxy as well. I wonder if he is a Jedi in hiding as well or former Jedi I should say. He indicated a philosophy of one who has turned to the dark side in a lengthy speech to another character at the end of the first season. He essentially says he has sacrificed being good like he once was. Yet he is complex in that he shows one can perhaps be bad but on the side of the rebels and anti Empire. Again I dont know he is a fallen Jedi but his speech and how they made him appear like Vader without a helmet with cape blowing during the speech in question made me think of that.

I hope Luthen is not a Jedi. Enjoying a Jedi free story in a galaxy far far away. Building a rebellion is a messy business. Tough decisions. He sacrifices an entire rebel group to protect one asset. I think it symbolizes Luthen hitting a point where he feels he has to be the bad guy to beat the bad guy.

Interesting about Asoka. Sounds like reverse Andor. Someone losing a cause while Andor is about someone gaining one.

Mandalorian is a Clint Eastwood character of the future