Man, I just don't get it. Commit suicide in Paris where you know your best friend will find you. Just awful. Selfish and uncool and I don't get it.

I've been watching his shows forever and had the chance to meet him a time or two. I figured any early death would be from drug relapse. Just never saw this coming.

There aren't many situations you can't come back from. If you need help reach out.

Sayonara Tony.

- LFS

{ sipping coffee }

{ eating donut }

It's not selfish. The guy was in a lot of pain and saw no way out.

It is always interesting to me when people say suicide is selfish. I understand why it might appear that way from the outside because it's easy to quantify the hurt caused to family/friends. Knowing nothing about the person who committed the act and looking at only the collateral damage, it's a justifiable position.

That said, the people who do decide to end their lives are typically facing very real or perceived pressures that few can understand. You have to look at the internal struggle as part of the equation which frequently makes the selfish conclusion much harder to arrive at.

Quote:

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"The so-called 'psychotically depressed' person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote 'hopelessness' or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring the fall; it's terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling 'Don't!' and 'Hang on!', can understand the jump. Not really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling."

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I just don't think we are going to agree on this one, nein. And that's ok.

Look, the truth is that almost all people who commit suicide truly believe that the world is better off without them. No one commits suicide in a day. It takes months and far more typically, years. It's what happens when someone has lost a very long, seemingly endless, internal battle. They aren't putting their relief above their loved ones' feelings. They think about those people right up until the moment they pull that trigger or knock away that chair. They truly believe that those they care about most will be better off, at least in the long run.

When I hear someone say suicide is selfish, I get it. The people affected by it are very hurt. They lost someone they loved. They are mad that someone, seemingly voluntarily, left them. They are unbelievably sad. And all of that is understandable and justifiable. It IS horribly sad.

But they are also thinking about themselves. They can't wrap their thoughts around the pain the person who did such a thing experienced. For years. Maybe even decades. The hundreds or thousands of times they thought about ending it all but didn't do it- out of hope it would get better. And then the relief didn't come.

I don't believe those that commit suicide do it voluntarily. They don't see their choice as "live or die." To use the quote in my previous post, they simply see jumping to their death as a better alternative than burning to death. And they care about their loved ones enormously but believe, truly, that those people will be better off in the long run.

For something to be selfish, it has to be knowingly self-serving. Being in such a long standing, intense pain that giving up everything you've ever loved, cared about, and worked for whilst simultaneously believing that people will better off without you does not seem very self-serving to me. It sounds like extreme desperation.

For sure a fair assessment

nein51 said:

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For sure a fair assessment

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And what worth is that fair assessment? What does it produce?

I agree with your assessment nein. The hurt and the pain of those left behind is real. They are okay to feel it. What good is caused by my understanding the difficult spot someone was in AFTER they killed themselves?

I'm not trying to get into an argument on this. I just have very strong feelings that my acceptance of the place they are as being real is accepting the act. I don't accept suicide. I can't fix all the problems in the world. I can't fix all the problems for my friends and family. But I can let them know that I am there to fight beside them and we won't give up. And that I am not better off if they are gone.

I am gonna split this baby in half here.

The primary root is depression. We should all have empathy for this and understand it is a legitimate disease.

On the other hand, there are many selfish and / or poor life decisions that can lead to depression. Alcohol abuse is a major player here. I guess we can this is a disease too but that is letting most off easier than they deserve. Out of wack values can make financial or other life road bumps more impossible to overcome than they should be.

chantix - he had been on it for some time. and who knows what else he was taking.

and it is likely spade was taking a/ a few anti depressants as well.

- KKM

>>... according to Thomas Moore, a senior scientist with the Institute for Safe Medication Practices, an independent nonprofit group that studies drug safety. ISMP released numerous reports detailing Chantix adverse effects, including one in 2014 that analyzed Chantix-related adverse events from 2007 through most of 2013. It found that Chantix had more cases of suicidal thoughts, self-harm, and homicidal thoughts than any other drug, by a more than three-fold margin. Moore believes that the Chantix warnings needed to be strengthened...
<<

Brian Ethridge said:

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Ex-gf mentions ambian.

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Ambient is crazy ***** If you mix it with alcohol holy cow look out.

>>
Around 5 million prescriptions have been filled in the U.S. thus far. So why would so many groups have been excluded from the testing, particularly for a drug with such potential mass appeal? "In order to satisfy the FDA's criteria, we have to isolate all the different variables that could affect the outcome," says Chatterjee. "We can't use very sick people or people who would not tolerate the drug." An FDA spokesperson acknowledges this: "It's not unusual to exclude people with major medical or psychiatric illnesses from some clinical trials," says Susan Cruzan.

"When they tested the drug, the sample they chose simply isn't representative of the people they're targeting," says Dr. Daniel Seidman, the director of Smoking Cessation Services at Columbia University Medical Center. "By excluding drinkers, you're artificially inflating your results, potentially. I run a clinic, and two out of three [smokers] I see have a psychiatric or mood problem. None of these people would have been part of the original trials."
<<

http://nymag.com/news/features/43892/index2.html

william said:

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chantix - he had been on it for some time. and who knows what else he was taking.

and it is likely spade was taking a/ a few anti depressants as well.

- KKM

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Chantix strikes again.