First Man

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BellCountyBear
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6:02p, 10/14/18
Saw the movie "First Man" with friends Friday night. I recommend it although it is 2:36 long.

It generated the conversation among us about why no one goes to the moon anymore? Compared to the technology available in 1969, it seems like it would be a relative walk in the park. It also seems like it would have pretty good commercial potential just from a tourism perspective. Thoughts?
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El Oso
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7:30p, 10/14/18
Reason 1: Limited NASA budget. It's about 0.4% of the US budget. That's for everything.

Reason 2: Politicians. With Kennedy, it was political savvy to go to the moon. Everybody could get behind beating Russia. Now, too many other things going on to worry about been there done that.

Reason 3: American support. Despite what I said in two about beating the Russians, it appears that only 53% of Americans actually supported spending money on space exploration. Space exploration is doing slightly better today at 55% in a poll conducted in June, but only 25% of that 55% said it should be a top priority. 44% of people surveyed said they thought sending astronauts back to the moon wasn't important or shouldn't be done at all.

Reason 4: It's not as safe as it seems. It's full of craters and other dangerous environments that makes it more dangerous than we amateurs think. I read somewhere that moon dust is the main problem because when meteors hit it--they leave dust fields and what looks flat--it really a big hole that when you put something heavy on it--causes a major problem.

Reason 5: Timing. There's also a problem with sunlight. For about 14 days at a time, the lunar surface is a boiling hellscape that is exposed directly to the sun's harsh rays; the moon has no protective atmosphere. The next 14 days are in total darkness, making the moon's surface one of the colder places in the universe.





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BellCountyBear
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8:39p, 10/14/18
All good reasons and I understand the science of it only from an amateur level as you said.

The business side of me just wonders if there would be a market for the ultra-wealthy to take the risks involved so they could say "I've been to the moon!" Fourteen days on the light side would be more than enough time for such an endeavor.
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Dia del DougO
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9:53p, 10/15/18
You would think a moon base would be a logical step towards further exploration of the solar system, as well as further observation, even defense from asteroids and stuff. We could have been perfecting and refining nearby space travel, minimizing the danger. People lost interest in the moon landings and it became harder to generate the spending necessary. I guess Mars seemed to far.
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Illinois Bear2
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12:06a, 10/16/18
I saw it. Was disappointed. Very dull.
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BaylorBJM
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In reply to Illinois Bear2 • 8:32a, 10/16/18
Illinois Bear2 said:
I saw it. Was disappointed. Very dull.


Agreed. Apollo 13 is my favorite movie of all-time and I'm fascinated by all things Gemini and Apollo-related but this movie was a beating. I see 2-3 movies a year and I've had my tickets for this one for weeks. Went in expecting an A/A+, walked out giving it a C+ at best. If I'm honest with myself, it's probably lower.

Perhaps it's my fault not knowing the movie was less related to the missions and more about Armstrong, who by most accounts, isn't the most exciting of personalities. Buzz would have been great biopic.
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Booray
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In reply to Dia del DougO • 5:07p, 10/16/18
Dia del DougO said:
You would think a moon base would be a logical step towards further exploration of the solar system, as well as further observation, even defense from asteroids and stuff. We could have been perfecting and refining nearby space travel, minimizing the danger. People lost interest in the moon landings and it became harder to generate the spending necessary. I guess Mars seemed to far.
Not sure about that. Given the distance you have to travel, starting from the moon is not that great an advantage and the added logistics is a pretty big downside. Sort of like saying I am going to get together a road trip from Waco to Bangor Maine. But I am going to organize it in Bremond.
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Dia del DougO
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In reply to Booray • 5:50p, 10/16/18
Booray said:
Dia del DougO said:
You would think a moon base would be a logical step towards further exploration of the solar system, as well as further observation, even defense from asteroids and stuff. We could have been perfecting and refining nearby space travel, minimizing the danger. People lost interest in the moon landings and it became harder to generate the spending necessary. I guess Mars seemed to far.
Not sure about that. Given the distance you have to travel, starting from the moon is not that great an advantage and the added logistics is a pretty big downside. Sort of like saying I am going to get together a road trip from Waco to Bangor Maine. But I am going to organize it in Bremond.
Bremond has Earth gravity. Its more like meeting up at Buccee's to load up on gas and provisions before a long road trip across the state. Leaving the moon just takes a little bump.

You're also outside the Earth's atmosphere, where you could set up an observatory and have a clearer view not only away, but towards the Earth and Sun, have an outpost to pick off any celestial bodies that might be a threat without having to re-launch something from Earth.
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BellCountyBear
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In reply to BaylorBJM • 7:33p, 10/16/18
BaylorBJM said:
Illinois Bear2 said:
I saw it. Was disappointed. Very dull.


Agreed. Apollo 13 is my favorite movie of all-time and I'm fascinated by all things Gemini and Apollo-related but this movie was a beating. I see 2-3 movies a year and I've had my tickets for this one for weeks. Went in expecting an A/A+, walked out giving it a C+ at best. If I'm honest with myself, it's probably lower.

Perhaps it's my fault not knowing the movie was less related to the missions and more about Armstrong, who by most accounts, isn't the most exciting of personalities. Buzz would have been great biopic.
The story arc and other character development was lacking compared to Apollo 13, but it felt more realistic to me as far what it was really like for them physically and psychologically.
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Lund Vernquist
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3:34p, 10/17/18
Thought it was a fine film for what it was, a biopic. I appreciated that it didn't try to make him out to be perfect or larger than life, which he certainly wasn't according to everything you saw and read of him. If anything the film underplayed his heroism and patriotism by never mentioning his distinguished service as a Navy pilot in Korea.
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Dia del DougO
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5:51p, 10/17/18
...

wrong thread.
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PartyBear
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10:22p, 10/17/18
Because now we are headed to Mars and Mars will become what y'all are talking about in regard to the moon in terms of practicality of a base etc.
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Dia del DougO
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12:46a, 10/18/18
But it takes a year to get to Mars. Do you want to take a year to get to Buccee's before you realize you left the stove on and have to turn around?
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Gunny Hartman
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In reply to Dia del DougO • 1:00p, 10/18/18
Dia del DougO said:
Booray said:
Dia del DougO said:
You would think a moon base would be a logical step towards further exploration of the solar system, as well as further observation, even defense from asteroids and stuff. We could have been perfecting and refining nearby space travel, minimizing the danger. People lost interest in the moon landings and it became harder to generate the spending necessary. I guess Mars seemed to far.
Not sure about that. Given the distance you have to travel, starting from the moon is not that great an advantage and the added logistics is a pretty big downside. Sort of like saying I am going to get together a road trip from Waco to Bangor Maine. But I am going to organize it in Bremond.
Bremond has Earth gravity. Its more like meeting up at Buccee's to load up on gas and provisions before a long road trip across the state. Leaving the moon just takes a little bump.

You're also outside the Earth's atmosphere, where you could set up an observatory and have a clearer view not only away, but towards the Earth and Sun, have an outpost to pick off any celestial bodies that might be a threat without having to re-launch something from Earth.

And how are you going to keep your people alive during the 14 days of every month that the Moon is a boiling hellscape?
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Dia del DougO
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In reply to Gunny Hartman • 1:03p, 10/18/18
Gunny Hartman said:
Dia del DougO said:
Booray said:
Dia del DougO said:
You would think a moon base would be a logical step towards further exploration of the solar system, as well as further observation, even defense from asteroids and stuff. We could have been perfecting and refining nearby space travel, minimizing the danger. People lost interest in the moon landings and it became harder to generate the spending necessary. I guess Mars seemed to far.
Not sure about that. Given the distance you have to travel, starting from the moon is not that great an advantage and the added logistics is a pretty big downside. Sort of like saying I am going to get together a road trip from Waco to Bangor Maine. But I am going to organize it in Bremond.
Bremond has Earth gravity. Its more like meeting up at Buccee's to load up on gas and provisions before a long road trip across the state. Leaving the moon just takes a little bump.

You're also outside the Earth's atmosphere, where you could set up an observatory and have a clearer view not only away, but towards the Earth and Sun, have an outpost to pick off any celestial bodies that might be a threat without having to re-launch something from Earth.

And how are you going to keep your people alive during the 14 days of every month that the Moon is a boiling hellscape?
Can't be much worse than the average September home game.
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Gunny Hartman
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In reply to Dia del DougO • 1:25p, 10/18/18
if you can figure out how to keep people alive through temperatures that exceed the boilingpoint of water then you can have your moon base:

The average temperature on the Moon (at the equator and mid latitudes) varies from -298 degrees Fahrenheit (-183 degrees Celsius), at night, to 224 degrees Fahrenheit (106 degrees Celsius) during the day. Because the Moon has no significant atmosphere to block some of the Sun's rays or to help trap heat at night, its temperature varies greatly between day and night.

http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/ask/168-What-is-the-temperature-on-the-Moon-
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Dia del DougO
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6:03p, 10/18/18
OK, I guess were launching from Bremond, then. It's slightly cooler there part of the year.
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Illinois Bear2
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In reply to Gunny Hartman • 11:47p, 10/18/18
Gunny Hartman said:
Dia del DougO said:
Booray said:
Dia del DougO said:
You would think a moon base would be a logical step towards further exploration of the solar system, as well as further observation, even defense from asteroids and stuff. We could have been perfecting and refining nearby space travel, minimizing the danger. People lost interest in the moon landings and it became harder to generate the spending necessary. I guess Mars seemed to far.
Not sure about that. Given the distance you have to travel, starting from the moon is not that great an advantage and the added logistics is a pretty big downside. Sort of like saying I am going to get together a road trip from Waco to Bangor Maine. But I am going to organize it in Bremond.
Bremond has Earth gravity. Its more like meeting up at Buccee's to load up on gas and provisions before a long road trip across the state. Leaving the moon just takes a little bump.

You're also outside the Earth's atmosphere, where you could set up an observatory and have a clearer view not only away, but towards the Earth and Sun, have an outpost to pick off any celestial bodies that might be a threat without having to re-launch something from Earth.

And how are you going to keep your people alive during the 14 days of every month that the Moon is a boiling hellscape?
Same way they did for the Apollo landings
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Gunny Hartman
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In reply to Illinois Bear2 • 11:55p, 10/18/18
Illinois Bear2 said:
Gunny Hartman said:
Dia del DougO said:
Booray said:
Dia del DougO said:
You would think a moon base would be a logical step towards further exploration of the solar system, as well as further observation, even defense from asteroids and stuff. We could have been perfecting and refining nearby space travel, minimizing the danger. People lost interest in the moon landings and it became harder to generate the spending necessary. I guess Mars seemed to far.
Not sure about that. Given the distance you have to travel, starting from the moon is not that great an advantage and the added logistics is a pretty big downside. Sort of like saying I am going to get together a road trip from Waco to Bangor Maine. But I am going to organize it in Bremond.
Bremond has Earth gravity. Its more like meeting up at Buccee's to load up on gas and provisions before a long road trip across the state. Leaving the moon just takes a little bump.

You're also outside the Earth's atmosphere, where you could set up an observatory and have a clearer view not only away, but towards the Earth and Sun, have an outpost to pick off any celestial bodies that might be a threat without having to re-launch something from Earth.

And how are you going to keep your people alive during the 14 days of every month that the Moon is a boiling hellscape?
Same way they did for the Apollo landings

Well, as was most excellently explained by El Oso in the second post of this thread, those happened during the half of the given months when the moon was shielded from the sun by the earth. So as I understand it, the issue is the 14 days of every month when the moon is directly exposed to the sun.
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cowboycwr
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In reply to BellCountyBear • 3:12p, 10/20/18
BellCountyBear said:
Saw the movie "First Man" with friends Friday night. I recommend it although it is 2:36 long.

It generated the conversation among us about why no one goes to the moon anymore? Compared to the technology available in 1969, it seems like it would be a relative walk in the park. It also seems like it would have pretty good commercial potential just from a tourism perspective. Thoughts?


Katsung answer...... because we never went! It was all filmed in Hollywood. Here is ten pages of "evidence" including how the kitchen appliance button stuck but this is proof the government is tspying on my and trying to silence me and kill my wife because I know all the conspiracies!
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cowboycwr
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3:17p, 10/20/18
As to the topic- travel to the moon for tourism would be like Jurassic Park.

Only the super wealthy could afford it, huge risks involved, very expensive, and time involved just to send someone to the moon and back.

You have to come up with something to fill the days spent flying there and back.

There just isn't any upside to going (tourism or scientifically)

As to the moon base..... we either already have one if you ask katsung or we just haven't gotten the tech yet from the Independence Day aliens.

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Illinois Bear2
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In reply to Gunny Hartman • 10:40p, 10/23/18
Gunny Hartman said:
Illinois Bear2 said:
Gunny Hartman said:
Dia del DougO said:
Booray said:
Dia del DougO said:
You would think a moon base would be a logical step towards further exploration of the solar system, as well as further observation, even defense from asteroids and stuff. We could have been perfecting and refining nearby space travel, minimizing the danger. People lost interest in the moon landings and it became harder to generate the spending necessary. I guess Mars seemed to far.
Not sure about that. Given the distance you have to travel, starting from the moon is not that great an advantage and the added logistics is a pretty big downside. Sort of like saying I am going to get together a road trip from Waco to Bangor Maine. But I am going to organize it in Bremond.
Bremond has Earth gravity. Its more like meeting up at Buccee's to load up on gas and provisions before a long road trip across the state. Leaving the moon just takes a little bump.

You're also outside the Earth's atmosphere, where you could set up an observatory and have a clearer view not only away, but towards the Earth and Sun, have an outpost to pick off any celestial bodies that might be a threat without having to re-launch something from Earth.

And how are you going to keep your people alive during the 14 days of every month that the Moon is a boiling hellscape?
Same way they did for the Apollo landings

Well, as was most excellently explained by El Oso in the second post of this thread, those happened during the half of the given months when the moon was shielded from the sun by the earth. So as I understand it, the issue is the 14 days of every month when the moon is directly exposed to the sun.
Apollo 17 spent almost 24 hours on the moon in the sun, they didn't die, obviously. There are ways to shield themselves so they don't boil away.
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Gold Tron
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In reply to BaylorBJM • 1:36p, 10/25/18
BaylorBJM said:
Illinois Bear2 said:
I saw it. Was disappointed. Very dull.


Agreed. Apollo 13 is my favorite movie of all-time and I'm fascinated by all things Gemini and Apollo-related but this movie was a beating. I see 2-3 movies a year and I've had my tickets for this one for weeks. Went in expecting an A/A+, walked out giving it a C+ at best. If I'm honest with myself, it's probably lower.

Perhaps it's my fault not knowing the movie was less related to the missions and more about Armstrong, who by most accounts, isn't the most exciting of personalities. Buzz would have been great biopic.
If you haven't seen it, youtube Ali G's interview of Buzz Aldrin. Pure comedic genius.
My pronouns are Deez/Dem.
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Dia del DougO
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12:49p, 1/3/19
https://www.vox.com/world/2019/1/3/18166696/china-moon-landing-far-dark-usa


"The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool."
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