I keep wondering about what and to whom Varys was writing in his chambers when they came for him. He burned it but quickly covered the vessel likely snuffing the flame. I'm thinking they'll find a half burned note stating he is writing to all lords of westeros urging them to back Jon's claim to the throne and decrying Dany's barbaric actions.

I think Jon kills Dany. I think his guilt for the loss of so many innocent lives because he wouldn't claim the throne and stand up to Dany causes him to abdicate the throne and return to the Wall to restart the nights watch as Bran informs everyone the threat from the North is always coming and will in time rise again.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I think they go the route of establishing some kind of senate or governing body and a collective rules the 7 kingdoms. Tyrion needs to die. He's just made way too many mistakes to not pay for them. The truest Game of Thrones death for Tyrion would be Bron killing him. Poetic justice as a man Tyrion always thought was his friend turns out to be exactly what we always knew he was. A hired sword who'll "befriend" the highest bidder. Just as Tyrion betrayed Varys, Bron betrays him. Sansa become queen in the north.

It seems an overarching theme is people are who you think they are. Jamie, for all his story arc progressing toward redemption, in the end was exactly the man he was at the beginning. Bron is a sellsword and always will be. Jon is too humble for his own good, even when his humility and honesty may cause mass suffering for others. Dany has always had a brutal streak and acted vindictive toward those who stood in her way and despite all the vocal claims she'll be a just queen, in the end she's just a murderous crazy person willing to torch all who oppose her.

FormerFlash said:

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I keep wondering about what and to whom Varys was writing in his chambers when they came for him. He burned it but quickly covered the vessel likely snuffing the flame. I'm thinking they'll find a half burned note stating he is writing to all lords of westeros urging them to back Jon's claim to the throne and decrying Dany's barbaric actions.

I think Jon kills Dany. I think his guilt for the loss of so many innocent lives because he wouldn't claim the throne and stand up to Dany causes him to abdicate the throne and return to the Wall to restart the nights watch as Bran informs everyone the threat from the North is always coming and will in time rise again.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I think they go the route of establishing some kind of senate or governing body and a collective rules the 7 kingdoms. Tyrion needs to die. He's just made way too many mistakes to not pay for them. The truest Game of Thrones death for Tyrion would be Bron killing him. Poetic justice as a man Tyrion always thought was his friend turns out to be exactly what we always knew he was. A hired sword who'll "befriend" the highest bidder. Just as Tyrion betrayed Varys, Bron betrays him. Sansa become queen in the north.

It seems an overarching theme is people are who you think they are. Jamie, for all his story arc progressing toward redemption, in the end was exactly the man he was at the beginning. Bron is a sellsword and always will be. Jon is too humble for his own good, even when his humility and honesty may cause mass suffering for others. Dany has always had a brutal streak and acted vindictive toward those who stood in her way and despite all the vocal claims she'll be a just queen, in the end she's just a murderous crazy person willing to torch all who oppose her.

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I think we'll find out exactly what Varys sent in next episode, but I thought I saw "true heir" and assumed it was talking about Jon.

I can go with this guess

How about this scenario?

Dany dies by Arya's Needle

John Snow says no go.

Arya finds out she is pregant from her trist with Gendry, the Blacksmith. They marry to ensure no more *******s.

The Red Witch's diary is found with her discovery of who Gendry really is.

Gendry assends to the Iron Throne as the only living descendant of Robert Baratheon. Making Arya the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms

Assassin said:

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How about this scenario?

Dany dies by Arya's Needle

John Snow says no go.

Arya finds out she is pregant from her trist with Gendry, the Blacksmith. They marry to ensure no more *******s.

The Red Witch's diary is found with her discovery of who Gendry really is.

Gendry assends to the Iron Throne as the only living descendant of Robert Baratheon. Making Arya the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms

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Too happy ending for the series. I guess it would qualify as a surprise twist that it ended with a happy ending.

I'm leaning toward Vary's little birds killing Dany, but I just can't figure who ends up on the throne.

Assassin said:

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The Red Witch's diary is found with her discovery of who Gendry really is.

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This doesn't have to happen. Dany already announced who he was after the battle of Winterfell during the celebration when she named him Lord of Storms End.

So if you're really disgruntled there's this:
https://www.tvguide.com/news/game-of-thrones-fan-petition/?utm_source=quora&utm_medium=referral

There's a petition with about 400K signatures demanding that someone else be given a chance to do the final season of the show.

Pretty stupid, but if you want to let it be known how annoyed you are . . .

I saw that. Last night it had 160,000 sig. Over 537,000 now...hahaha.

Dany tests Jon's loyalty by ordering him to kill the rest of the innocents in KL. Jon refuses. Dany flames him with Drogon. He emerges, unburnt. Grey Worm then turns to Dany and Spears her in the gut. Then Arya rips off the Grey Worm mask. Jon abdicates the throne and returns North to be with Tormund and Ghost. No more king (or queen) of the seven kingdoms... Dany's purpose of breaking the wheel is fulfilled. Tyrion goes back to Casterly Rock, Sansa stays in Winterfell, Arya goes to Gendry.

Or...Jon, Tyrion, Arya all die and we close on Dany saddling up on Drogon to fly north and burn down Winterfell.

Dany storms kings landing to for whom the bell tolls

One thing I noticed rewatching this scene is that Drogon's ability to breathe fire is roughly equivalent to the ability to a lot of movie soldiers to fire bullets. He doesn't seem to need to take a breath, he's most like a flame thrower who never runs out of gas. He can exhale for a very long time without needing to take a breath.

OK, it's a nit, but it's kind of funny.

TechDawgMc said:

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One thing I noticed rewatching this scene is that Drogon's ability to breathe fire is roughly equivalent to the ability to a lot of movie soldiers to fire bullets. He doesn't seem to need to take a breath, he's most like a flame thrower who never runs out of gas. He can exhale for a very long time without needing to take a breath.

OK, it's a nit, but it's kind of funny.

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Yeah, but it's a nit that gets noticed when the audience isn't having a good time.

I'm watching a show where the undead marched to breach a wall erected by magic thousands of years ago. A girl walks into a bier and comes out unscathed with baby dragons. A sorceress conjures up ethereal assassins from vagina smoke. Clearly, reality is not required.

When the action and plot is compelling, I'm willing to suspend my disbelief. I want to play along. I don't mind stuff like characters traveling thousands of miles in a day to show up unexpected and cause plot twists. When I'm no longer captivated by the shows spell, stuff like random character actions, over-dark sets, and sustained dragon fire starts to draw your attention.

This could always end up being pulled together right at the end for one awesome ending. However, I think we've got to face the fact that, despite being given 3 years to complete the assignment, D&D simply never connected the dots. I guess if I care this much, I'm gonna have to hope Martin lives long enough to finish writing them out.

TechDawgMc said:

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One thing I noticed rewatching this scene is that Drogon's ability to breathe fire is roughly equivalent to the ability to a lot of movie soldiers to fire bullets. He doesn't seem to need to take a breath, he's most like a flame thrower who never runs out of gas. He can exhale for a very long time without needing to take a breath.

OK, it's a nit, but it's kind of funny.

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He's a magical creature that we've never seen fully unleashed. I don't mind the fact that he has an unending supply of fire, because unlike the bullet thing we've never established that he can run out.

Looking forward to the series finale with absolutely zero expectations for how they'll close it out. I mean it's almost impossible for them to neatly resolve everything in 80 minutes, so I expect there will either be unbelievable plot twists, incomplete plot resolution or maybe a bit of both.

Just gonna let this one come to me.

FormerFlash said:

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Her descent into madness happened rather quickly although one could argue it was precipitated by the loss of her dragons and trusted advisors. Each loss building on the last and pushing her to a breaking point. I'm glad the bells rung and she made the decision to kill the innocent people only in that I wanted her to go bad for the sake of the story line. Varys dying right before Jon and Tyrion realize how truly mad Dany is seems to fit with the way things tend to work in GoT. Tyrion was already torn up about ratting out his best friend in the world, now within 24 hours he learns Varys was right all along and he has to live with that.

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It felt like it happened rather quickly because it did. They literally established her descent in one episode, though you could argue it was seeded earlier with learning about Jon and Jorah dying. But it suffers by comparison within its own series when you think about the Red Wedding or even Ned's death. Both of those took several episodes over a full season to lay the groundwork for the inevitable end. And when it happened we were shocked, but that was our fault because the clues we're all there. Not so in this case. Sure, it all "adds up", but it just wasn't earned like the other twists were. And that's unfortunate, because it's the biggest of them all now that we're at the end.

I'm just going to sit back and enjoy it

TechDawgMc said:

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One thing I noticed rewatching this scene is that Drogon's ability to breathe fire is roughly equivalent to the ability to a lot of movie soldiers to fire bullets. He doesn't seem to need to take a breath, he's most like a flame thrower who never runs out of gas. He can exhale for a very long time without needing to take a breath.

OK, it's a nit, but it's kind of funny.

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this guy I used to work with was a lot like that, some of the most nasty, foul breath you have ever got a downwind whiff of. And he also never seemed to inhale, just expel breath ranked up there with the worst of Chernobyl.

I think he would have given Drogon a run for the money

I've got to believe that Cersei, and possibly Jaime, survived the collapsing castle. Either that, or the writers are morons.

Max Quad said:

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I've got to believe that Cersei, and possibly Jaime, survived the collapsing castle. Either that, or the writers are morons.

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Why? They're definitely dead.

Max Quad said:

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I've got to believe that Cersei, and possibly Jaime, survived the collapsing castle. Either that, or the writers are morons.

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Interesting. I haven't seen this angle.

Maybe Bran worged into the Dragon and destroyed the city too?

Just a hurried and less than satisfactory way to write them out of the story.

Max Quad said:

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Just a hurried and less than satisfactory way to write them out of the story.

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And seemingly at odds with the prophecy for how Cersei would die. That said, i wish it weren't so and some twist was coming, but they are dead in the show.

Here's a rather interesting take on why people have not liked this season. And actually a pretty good take on story-telling in general

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/

As l'm watching this battle again. I'm a little disappointed in Jon's silence and when he gets out of this mess like we now know he does, he is going to have to kill Dany. He doesn't need to be king either. IMO lol

TechDawgMc said:

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Here's a rather interesting take on why people have not liked this season. And actually a pretty good take on story-telling in general

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/

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some great points.

and Game of Thrones dies with a whimper... it deserved a glorious death

I liked it.

Anti climatic.

Should have done all the iron throne battles first and then had the night king battle at the end.

The end should have been Jon finding Ygrittes hotter sister

Keyser Soze said:

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The should have been Jon finding Ygrittes hotter sister

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That would have been cool and pissed me off at the same time.

Sam Lowry said:

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Mr Tulip said:

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Dany's great-great-great-<whatever> grandad united the 7 kingdoms by dracarys-ing up a few cities. In the end, he asked if they could all live peaceably, or if further experimentation were warranted. Dany may have simply been laying the groundwork for some outreach diplomacy.

GRRM is an astute student of history. Many of these battles and strategies parallel real-world events that I'm not educated enough to recall. One of his major themes is that whatever the political question may be or no matter how heroic or noble the cause, it's the small people who end up suffering. Arya witnessed a little girl melted into her mothers arms while they screamed in the street. The Hound begged her not to follow his path of hatred and revenge, even as he walked that road towards what knew to be a stupidly pointless confrontation with his own brother.

Those two scenes almost combine to make a literary point.

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Dany is a textbook example of the utopian progressive politician. Her kind have always been prone to democide.

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The only other kind would be b@st@rds who simply set out to grab power. Every politician out there should think that he's at least trying to make the world a better place. Otherwise, they're just naked thieves killing for profit.

There's no need for the "utopian" or "progressive" qualifiers. Substituting your own judgement for that of others, and deciding that the suffering will be worth it in the long run is something every aspiring ruler promulgates. It's always ended up as tyranny by as many names as you'd care to call it.

Sam Lowry said:

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Mr Tulip said:

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Dany's great-great-great-<whatever> grandad united the 7 kingdoms by dracarys-ing up a few cities. In the end, he asked if they could all live peaceably, or if further experimentation were warranted. Dany may have simply been laying the groundwork for some outreach diplomacy.

GRRM is an astute student of history. Many of these battles and strategies parallel real-world events that I'm not educated enough to recall. One of his major themes is that whatever the political question may be or no matter how heroic or noble the cause, it's the small people who end up suffering. Arya witnessed a little girl melted into her mothers arms while they screamed in the street. The Hound begged her not to follow his path of hatred and revenge, even as he walked that road towards what knew to be a stupidly pointless confrontation with his own brother.

Those two scenes almost combine to make a literary point.

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Dany is a textbook example of the utopian progressive politician. Her kind have always been prone to democide.

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Dany embodies the white liberal woman archetype. She feels no connection with her lineage, instead traveling to far away lands and returning home with hordes of savage outsiders. Population replacement ensues under the guise of her doublespeak, "liberated" as a stand-in for burned and massacred.

As her violence ramps up, her delusions take over, she's only doing what is right because she's the only one who knows what's right. It took Jon giving up his adopted soyboy acquiescence and remembering he's not in fact a ball bereft unsullied to put a stop to her reign of terror, no matter the consequences. Jon is the titular man of the west, and because he does his duty, he's awarded freedom from SJW bull*****