We need a thread to discuss this movie with spoilers for those of us that have seen the movie and want to discuss it.

In my opinion, it's a great movie but far from the perfection many are making it out to be. I think there is a fanboy aspect to everyone's enthusiasm that is blinding them to some of the shortfalls.

First of all, anytime a franchise delves into time travel, I think it's a bad decision. I was completely prepared for them to use the time infinity stone to somehow reverse the effects of Thano's finger snap. But for them to suddenly stumble on time travel and completely gloss over the construction of a time machine they then use to fix everything seems lazy to me. And unnecessary to complicate things like that when there already exists in the universe a known time manipulating mechanism.

Captain Marvel suddenly arriving on the scene as some all powerful hero to aid the winning side is also lazy writing. They have to just come up with poor excuses for why she is constantly not around rather than have her just dominate because she's so powerful. Seriously. Where is she all the time? And that haircut, yikes.

Piper in a an iron man suit fighting is ridiculous. Totally unnecessary and weird. I feel like it was only done so she could be present when Tony died for the tear jerking effect.

No thanks on fat beer gutted Thor. Didn't like that part.

Not nearly enough deaths. They're fighting this all powerful enemy with a massive army and literally no one of consequence dies. Let me clarify. The two major characters who did die both did so in self sacrificial ways. How on earth did ant man and hawkeye survive the missile barrage unleashed by thanos' ship? How do they all fight this massive army without a single casualty? To me it felt like the end of Harry Potter where JK Rowling totally copped out on killing Harry (which absolutely should have happened in my opinion).

Had to get a couple of those things off my chest. I did like a lot of the nostalgia aspects and the interactions some characters had while in the past. Lot's of great nuggets of gold in those scenes. Still not sure how I felt about hulk and his hybrid state. He's always been my favorite character and I think it's mainly due to his rage and the internal conflict. That was all absent in this movie (although his fake rage was pretty funny).

Anyone else willing to criticize the movie everyone is calling perfect? Just too many happy endings for me to be believable.

FormerFlash said:

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We need a thread to discuss this movie with spoilers for those of us that have seen the movie and want to discuss it.

In my opinion, it's a great movie but far from the perfection many are making it out to be. I think there is a fanboy aspect to everyone's enthusiasm that is blinding them to some of the shortfalls.

1.First of all, anytime a franchise delves into time travel, I think it's a bad decision. I was completely prepared for them to use the time infinity stone to somehow reverse the effects of Thano's finger snap. But for them to suddenly stumble on time travel and completely gloss over the construction of a time machine they then use to fix everything seems lazy to me. And unnecessary to complicate things like that when there already exists in the universe a known time manipulating mechanism.


2.Captain Marvel suddenly arriving on the scene as some all powerful hero to aid the winning side is also lazy writing. They have to just come up with poor excuses for why she is constantly not around rather than have her just dominate because she's so powerful. Seriously. Where is she all the time? And that haircut, yikes.

3. Piper in a an iron man suit fighting is ridiculous. Totally unnecessary and weird. I feel like it was only done so she could be present when Tony died for the tear jerking effect.

4.No thanks on fat beer gutted Thor. Didn't like that part.

5.Not nearly enough deaths. They're fighting this all powerful enemy with a massive army and literally no one of consequence dies. Let me clarify. The two major characters who did die both did so in self sacrificial ways. How on earth did ant man and hawkeye survive the missile barrage unleashed by thanos' ship? How do they all fight this massive army without a single casualty? To me it felt like the end of Harry Potter where JK Rowling totally copped out on killing Harry (which absolutely should have happened in my opinion).

6.Had to get a couple of those things off my chest. I did like a lot of the nostalgia aspects and the interactions some characters had while in the past. Lot's of great nuggets of gold in those scenes. Still not sure how I felt about hulk and his hybrid state. He's always been my favorite character and I think it's mainly due to his rage and the internal conflict. That was all absent in this movie (although his fake rage was pretty funny).

Anyone else willing to criticize the movie everyone is calling perfect? Just too many happy endings for me to be believable.

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1. AntMan kinda set this up in his movie. And I loved all the pop culture references to time travel, Back to the Future etc. But hte van is the key, it's behind the lines, and Thanos and every minion ignores it when the biggest guy on the battlefield drops into it? Don't think so.

2. Didn't see the CM movie, never read the comic, had no expectations. Seemed like her only real function was to carry the gauntlet across the battlefield accompanied by every female on set. When all she had to do was fly. Liked the do, tho. Along the same lines, the whole series treats Tony and Bruce as the only two smart guys on the planet. As to missing characters Mr. Fantastic had to feel slighted. Among others.

3. Pepper wore a suit in IM 3, didn't have a problem with that.

4. Mope monster. Please.

5. No deaths because the bad guys all fight hand to hand. All the galaxy/universe to choose from and Thanos can't recruit any baddies with distance weapons? They had em in NYC...

6. Quit reading Hulk and Spiderman because THEY NEVER RESOLVE THEIR ****ING INTERNAL CONFLICTS.

Always felt bad for Cap being out of his time, loved the way they handled that. Big ups.

The time travel was inevitable. How else do you solve the problem of the end of the last movie. It's what ticked me off about Infinity War -- such a cliche setup where you know there has to be a fix in the sequel. Still, I thought they handled it decently. I liked that they just didn't take it too seriously. Made fun of the typical approach to it and just sort of said "you can't change the past" and then ignored the fact that they did anyway. Brazen, but I was willing to suspend belief. And I was generally surprised that the time travel didn't somehow involve Dr. Strange.

My daughter and I (we didn't see the movie together) both noted that no one died in Thanos's first big "phaser" attack. That was a massive bombardment (what does he do if he destroys a crystal?) and it's a bit odd that everyone survives.

When did Thanos become a super strength villain. He's fighting off Captain America, Ironman and THOR at the same time??? Isn't Thor a god?!? That seemed absurd. They could at least have given him some kind of shield that made it make sense. And he slapped Captain Marvel silly.

Thought it was a bit much that no one got killed in the final battle (other than Ironman) but not terribly surprising overall. Ironically, followed up watching this with watching the Battle of Winterfell (Game of Thrones) where they didn't kill anyone important either.

Did anyone else notice that they had the African dude running across the battlefield carrying the gauntlet like a football? Wonder if they thought about that look. They certainly did think about the all girl line of attack.

Overall, I liked the movie. Most of my annoyances are really with IW, and I thought they did a lot of fun stuff--and created some powerful moments as well.

Agree that the initial critic reviews that this was the perfect movie were way over-hyped but I really enjoyed the movie.

Things I liked:

• Cap's ending. Before he crashed into the sea in the first Captain America, he asked Peggy to save a dance for him and eventually he was able to do it.
• Stark's ending - The guy that started it all, that had the biggest ego of all, knowingly made one of the biggest sacrifices.
• Where is Gomorra? I like the mystery of not knowing if she was killed in Stark's snap or if she is somewhere else.
• Where is Loki? Disappeared with the power stone.
• Poor Starlord - Mostly driven by the death of his mom then to have Gomorra taken, then come back, then kick him in the nuts not knowing him, then disappear again. That's alot of drama.
• The mystery teen at the funeral that turns out to be the kid in Iron Man 3 that Stark helped.
• I liked the twist with Thanos finding out about the entire plan through Nebula.

Things I'm torn on:

• 40 minutes of battle was alot of fun even if no one significant was killed.
• The all lady crew in the battle. I'm watching a movie with purple aliens, the hulk, a god of Thunder et al, and then when the lady line shows up all I can think is 'that doesn't seem realistic.'
• Captain Marvel's hair. During the movie, I thought, 'did we have to go lesbo political?' only to discover later it looked just like her hair in the comics. Sorry, my bad.

Things I did not like:

• The first hour was a long setup (even kinda boring?) after 22 movies of setup.
• No one dying in Thanos' barrage was pretty dumb.
• We were supposed to perceive Ronin/Hawkeye as a bad guy for killing bad guys? Isn't that what the good guy Avengers do?
• Captain Marvel was all Kree and Skrull (which are supposedly still on earth) but nary a mention in Endgame.
• And finally, Captain Marvel was supposed to be the biggest baddie in the universe and she did exactly 1 thing in 3 hours that could not have been done another way - plow through Thanos' ship.

Edmond Bear said:

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• The all lady crew in the battle. I'm watching a movie with purple aliens, the hulk, a god of Thunder et al, and then when the lady line shows up all I can think is 'that doesn't seem realistic.'

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LMAO! Movies, waddayagonnado.

TechDawgMc said:

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The time travel was inevitable. How else do you solve the problem of the end of the last movie. It's what ticked me off about Infinity War -- such a cliche setup where you know there has to be a fix in the sequel. Still, I thought they handled it decently. I liked that they just didn't take it too seriously. Made fun of the typical approach to it and just sort of said "you can't change the past" and then ignored the fact that they did anyway. Brazen, but I was willing to suspend belief. And I was generally surprised that the time travel didn't somehow involve Dr. Strange.

My daughter and I (we didn't see the movie together) both noted that no one died in Thanos's first big "phaser" attack. That was a massive bombardment (what does he do if he destroys a crystal?) and it's a bit odd that everyone survives.

When did Thanos become a super strength villain. He's fighting off Captain America, Ironman and THOR at the same time??? Isn't Thor a god?!? That seemed absurd. They could at least have given him some kind of shield that made it make sense. And he slapped Captain Marvel silly.

Thought it was a bit much that no one got killed in the final battle (other than Ironman) but not terribly surprising overall. Ironically, followed up watching this with watching the Battle of Winterfell (Game of Thrones) where they didn't kill anyone important either.

Did anyone else notice that they had the African dude running across the battlefield carrying the gauntlet like a football? Wonder if they thought about that look. They certainly did think about the all girl line of attack.

Overall, I liked the movie. Most of my annoyances are really with IW, and I thought they did a lot of fun stuff--and created some powerful moments as well.

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Thanos has always been extremely strong, even without the Infinity Gauntlet. It wasn't that surprising from a comic fan perspective.

As to Captain Marvel showing up late, she explained why in the first few minutes of the movie.

Pepper wearing the suit is not surprising or ridiculous as she did so in IM3 and in the comics as Rescue.

Not a perfect movie, but still one of the best. I think I like Infinity War a tad better, but Endgame was great.

The w spoilers version of what I posted elsewhere


Overall it was ok. Things that stuck out. (Spoilers)

1. It was a little sappy in act 4, but I get they wanted to put a bow on it. But it could have legitimately used "Friends are friends forever" as background music there and it would have totally fit. It was like the last day of high school and everyone was there to cry it out.

2. Captain America endorsing a gay dating relationship was a useless scene that was some hard core virtue signaling. No reason for it. Now instead of just watching a superhero flick, I'm gonna have to answer questions from my kids. (I saw it in Abu Dhabi last night without them). "No son, that guy is soooo messed up by the loss of all the people, he went crazy ad started dating dudes"

3. The girl power scene at the end was also totally pointless virtue signaling given who they were supposedly protecting and how ridiculously overpowered that CM is. Also, she is WAAAY too overpowered. She can't lose and that's absurd. It's a flaw in characters that are SJW heroes. They refuse to put legit flaws in them because SJW. Bleh.

4. The Deus ex Machina in this film was kind of lazy writing. Whether it was the time machine or the wizard portal enabled armies in the end, or the tony stark infinity gauntlet that didn't require a forge heated by a f'ing star to manufacture or the fact that hulk HAD to be the one to use the gauntlet so it fit thanos ' hand or the stupid nano suit. That's just lazy.

5. The physical/emotional breakdown of Thor was kind of pointless and ruined that character for me. It didn't humanize or add depth to him. It just made him look like a big fat baby.

6. Scarlet Johansson is a great actress and her story line (w Ronin) was the best one. That could have been a stand-alone story and it would have been a great movie.

7. Why is falcon going to be captain America now...or HOW? He's awesome as a character in his own right and he's not superpowered like captain America.

8. Concur with above comments on missile attack. That was bunker buster level detonation. That whole crowd isn't walking away from that.

9. Maybe I'm not up on Professor Hulk, but he just seemed stoned the entire film. He had a "whatever bro" kind of attitude that didn't match Banner or Hulk. Like I said, maybe it aligned w comics, but it was kind of annoying

Not bad, but definitely one of the weaker marvel movies.

Too many jumped sharks...

Fat Thor, Sick Tony Stark (I may have just missed the reason for that one) Captain America with the Hammer, Captain Marvel in then out and then in again, Small Brainy Hulk, Falcon/Captain America exchange. Nebula killing her earlier self, etc.

Just overdone in many ways.


I don't mind sci-fi/super hero stuff, but you have to play by the established rules. That's why I never liked Star trek, even though I liked star wars. Star trek seems to just make up new rules whenever.

Star wars is an offender of this itself, with the leia space walk etc, but doesn't seem to be as bad about it.

Endgame seemed to break a lot of pre-established rules.

Kinda a big deal in the Mavel Universe but many of the stand alone flicks were better movies.



Thanos winning without the power of the stones bothered me too. Oh well, the lone ranger never ran out of bullets in those reruns I watched as a kid.

I saw it. Taking it in. I was not blown away as others seem to be.

Honestly? Extremely 'meh.' Won't rehash why, because others have covered it, but I thought a lot of it really sucked.

Just not as bad as infinity war.

Captain Marvel was much better

Keyser Soze said:

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Just not as bad as infinity war.

Captain Marvel was much better

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I took my kids to see CM and it was honestly kind of meh as well. It was a mildly interesting origin story but She's way too overpowered. The best part was essentially everyone but her. And Larson has the range of a block of wood. She just comes across as snotty and boring.

GolemIII said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Just not as bad as infinity war.

Captain Marvel was much better

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I took my kids to see CM and it was honestly kind of meh as well. It was a mildly interesting origin story but She's way too overpowered. The best part was essentially everyone but her. And Larson has the range of a block of wood. She just comes across as snotty and boring.

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I wouldn't judge her by that movie, she's been good in other roles.

Keyser Soze said:

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Just not as bad as infinity war.

Captain Marvel was much better

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IMO Infinity War was the best Avengers yet, Endgame at a close second.

Honestly, my biggest issue was they set up this huge ultimatum for Tony Stark between using time travel to save half the population wiped out by Thanos in Infinity War or saving his own daughter and the life he had built in the 5 years since the finger snap. Those were significant stakes and honestly my gut dropped a little thinking about having to make a choice like that. Then they basically copped out of having him make that decision 45 seconds later by just saying, "nothing we do in the past will affect what has happened since so your family will be safe." Which literally flies in the face of every story about time travel ever written. It was absurd. It was weird feeling like the stakes were so much higher in Infinity War. Endgame just didn't seem to have the same gravitas.

GolemIII said:

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The w spoilers version of what I posted elsewhere


Overall it was ok. Things that stuck out. (Spoilers)

1. It was a little sappy in act 4, but I get they wanted to put a bow on it. But it could have legitimately used "Friends are friends forever" as background music there and it would have totally fit. It was like the last day of high school and everyone was there to cry it out.

2. Captain America endorsing a <>DigitalOcean SiteGround iPage gay dating relationship was a useless scene that was some hard core virtue signaling. No reason for it. Now instead of just watching a superhero flick, I'm gonna have to answer questions from my kids. (I saw it in Abu Dhabi last night without them). "No son, that guy is soooo messed up by the loss of all the people, he went crazy ad started dating dudes"

3. The girl power scene at the end was also totally pointless virtue signaling given who they were supposedly protecting and how ridiculously overpowered that CM is. Also, she is WAAAY too overpowered. She can't lose and that's absurd. It's a flaw in characters that are SJW heroes. They refuse to put legit flaws in them because SJW. Bleh.

4. The Deus ex Machina in this film was kind of lazy writing. Whether it was the time machine or the wizard portal enabled armies in the end, or the tony stark infinity gauntlet that didn't require a forge heated by a f'ing star to manufacture or the fact that hulk HAD to be the one to use the gauntlet so it fit thanos ' hand or the stupid nano suit. That's just lazy.

5. The physical/emotional breakdown of Thor was kind of pointless and ruined that character for me. It didn't humanize or add depth to him. It just made him look like a big fat baby.

6. Scarlet Johansson is a great actress and her story line (w Ronin) was the best one. That could have been a stand-alone story and it would have been a great movie.

7. Why is falcon going to be captain America now...or HOW? He's awesome as a character in his own right and he's not superpowered like captain America.

8. Concur with above comments on missile attack. That was bunker buster level detonation. That whole crowd isn't walking away from that.

9. Maybe I'm not up on Professor Hulk, but he just seemed stoned the entire film. He had a "whatever bro" kind of attitude that didn't match Banner or Hulk. Like I said, maybe it aligned w comics, but it was kind of annoying

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. Didn't see the CM movie, never read the comic, had no expectations. Seemed like her only real function was to carry the gauntlet across the battlefield accompanied by every female on set. When all she had to do was fly. Liked the do, tho. Along the same lines, the whole series treats Tony and Bruce as the only two smart guys on the planet. As to missing characters Mr. Fantastic had to feel slighted. Among others.

I saw it and liked it but as others have said it had some very lazy writing. Some things I have thought were stupid:

1. They bring everyone back from the snap and Clint's (Hawkeye) phone starts going off and it's his wife. So he kept paying her bill, kept her phone charged and it just happened to be right next to her when she came back?

2. How is Peter Parker's whole class still in High school? Did they all get snapped?

3. When they brought people back did the appear where they vanished? What if they were in a plane? On a boat?

4. That would make things really weird. You come back from being snapped out of existence but everyone you know is 5 years older. Maybe they have moved on, remarried, etc.

5. This one is huge. The world would have a massive starvation problem. There would not be enough food for double the population overnight. Let alone housing, jobs, etc.

6. How did Thanos shrink his ship and come through the quantum realm time portal? Sure he had the particles from the Nebula he caught but she only had enough to send the other Nebula back.

7. If Thanos presnap went to the future and died.... how did he ever do the snap then?

8. Didn't they create new timeline by going back? Like when they allowed Loki to take the Tessaract and disappear?

9. They spent all this time talking about how you can't go back and change things..... and then they did exactly that and changed things as they went back for the stones.

10. Then Cap went back and changed things at the end so he could "live his life." Except that in earlier movies it was said that Peggy did marry and have kids.... so if he went back and married her he just erased those kids from existence and changed things.

11. When Cap went back to live he then just sat by while all 22 other movies happened and could have done something but he did nothing. Not very Captain America like.

Cap didn't age when he was in a coma for 50 years .... but aged this time

cowboycwr said:

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I saw it and liked it but as others have said it had some very lazy writing. Some things I have thought were stupid:

1. They bring everyone back from the snap and Clint's (Hawkeye) phone starts going off and it's his wife. So he kept paying her bill, kept her phone charged and it just happened to be right next to her when she came back?

2. How is Peter Parker's whole class still in High school? Did they all get snapped?

3. When they brought people back did the appear where they vanished? What if they were in a plane? On a boat?

4. That would make things really weird. You come back from being snapped out of existence but everyone you know is 5 years older. Maybe they have moved on, remarried, etc.

5. This one is huge. The world would have a massive starvation problem. There would not be enough food for double the population overnight. Let alone housing, jobs, etc.

6. How did Thanos shrink his ship and come through the quantum realm time portal? Sure he had the particles from the Nebula he caught but she only had enough to send the other Nebula back.

7. If Thanos presnap went to the future and died.... how did he ever do the snap then?

8. Didn't they create new timeline by going back? Like when they allowed Loki to take the Tessaract and disappear?

9. They spent all this time talking about how you can't go back and change things..... and then they did exactly that and changed things as they went back for the stones.

10. Then Cap went back and changed things at the end so he could "live his life." Except that in earlier movies it was said that Peggy did marry and have kids.... so if he went back and married her he just erased those kids from existence and changed things.

11. When Cap went back to live he then just sat by while all 22 other movies happened and could have done something but he did nothing. Not very Captain America like.

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Hulk explained all the time travel stuff briefly during the movie. It's not BTTF rules. Doing stuff in the past does not change the future you are currently in.

https://m.ign.com/articles/2019/05/11/avengers-endgame-time-travel-timeline-rules-explained-how-does-it-work

All of Peter Parker's friends were snapped, so they and others snapped away stay in the same grade. More answers probably in the new Spider-Man movie.

Captain America didn't age the first time because he was in a type of deep freeze suspended animation.

Keyser Soze said:

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Cap didn't age when he was in a coma for 50 years .... but aged this time

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Sex.

Spouse

Bear8084 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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I saw it and liked it but as others have said it had some very lazy writing. Some things I have thought were stupid:

1. They bring everyone back from the snap and Clint's (Hawkeye) phone starts going off and it's his wife. So he kept paying her bill, kept her phone charged and it just happened to be right next to her when she came back?

2. How is Peter Parker's whole class still in High school? Did they all get snapped?

3. When they brought people back did the appear where they vanished? What if they were in a plane? On a boat?

4. That would make things really weird. You come back from being snapped out of existence but everyone you know is 5 years older. Maybe they have moved on, remarried, etc.

5. This one is huge. The world would have a massive starvation problem. There would not be enough food for double the population overnight. Let alone housing, jobs, etc.

6. How did Thanos shrink his ship and come through the quantum realm time portal? Sure he had the particles from the Nebula he caught but she only had enough to send the other Nebula back.

7. If Thanos presnap went to the future and died.... how did he ever do the snap then?

8. Didn't they create new timeline by going back? Like when they allowed Loki to take the Tessaract and disappear?

9. They spent all this time talking about how you can't go back and change things..... and then they did exactly that and changed things as they went back for the stones.

10. Then Cap went back and changed things at the end so he could "live his life." Except that in earlier movies it was said that Peggy did marry and have kids.... so if he went back and married her he just erased those kids from existence and changed things.

11. When Cap went back to live he then just sat by while all 22 other movies happened and could have done something but he did nothing. Not very Captain America like.

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Hulk explained all the time travel stuff briefly during the movie. It's not BTTF rules. Doing stuff in the past does not change the future you are currently in.

https://m.ign.com/articles/2019/05/11/avengers-endgame-time-travel-timeline-rules-explained-how-does-it-work

All of Peter Parker's friends were snapped, so they and others snapped away stay in the same grade. More answers probably in the new Spider-Man movie.

Captain America didn't age the first time because he was in a type of deep freeze suspended animation.

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Yes Hulk tried to explain it all... and then they broke his explanations.

Cap went back and lived his life.... but in Hulk's explanation that would have created a different timeline so he wouldn't have been there on the bench.

cowboycwr said:

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Bear8084 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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I saw it and liked it but as others have said it had some very lazy writing. Some things I have thought were stupid:

1. They bring everyone back from the snap and Clint's (Hawkeye) phone starts going off and it's his wife. So he kept paying her bill, kept her phone charged and it just happened to be right next to her when she came back?

2. How is Peter Parker's whole class still in High school? Did they all get snapped?

3. When they brought people back did the appear where they vanished? What if they were in a plane? On a boat?

4. That would make things really weird. You come back from being snapped out of existence but everyone you know is 5 years older. Maybe they have moved on, remarried, etc.

5. This one is huge. The world would have a massive starvation problem. There would not be enough food for double the population overnight. Let alone housing, jobs, etc.

6. How did Thanos shrink his ship and come through the quantum realm time portal? Sure he had the particles from the Nebula he caught but she only had enough to send the other Nebula back.

7. If Thanos presnap went to the future and died.... how did he ever do the snap then?

8. Didn't they create new timeline by going back? Like when they allowed Loki to take the Tessaract and disappear?

9. They spent all this time talking about how you can't go back and change things..... and then they did exactly that and changed things as they went back for the stones.

10. Then Cap went back and changed things at the end so he could "live his life." Except that in earlier movies it was said that Peggy did marry and have kids.... so if he went back and married her he just erased those kids from existence and changed things.

11. When Cap went back to live he then just sat by while all 22 other movies happened and could have done something but he did nothing. Not very Captain America like.

---

Hulk explained all the time travel stuff briefly during the movie. It's not BTTF rules. Doing stuff in the past does not change the future you are currently in.

https://m.ign.com/articles/2019/05/11/avengers-endgame-time-travel-timeline-rules-explained-how-does-it-work

All of Peter Parker's friends were snapped, so they and others snapped away stay in the same grade. More answers probably in the new Spider-Man movie.

Captain America didn't age the first time because he was in a type of deep freeze suspended animation.

---

Yes Hulk tried to explain it all... and then they broke his explanations.

Cap went back and lived his life.... but in Hulk's explanation that would have created a different timeline so he wouldn't have been there on the bench.

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2019/04/29/the-avengers-endgame-plot-hole-is-not-really-a-plot-hole-at-all-spoilers/amp/

Probably the best explanation of it all IMO.

Best Explanation: Lazy writing with massive overuse of deus ex machina.

They could have (should have) wrapped this all up in Infinity War, but as my lovely wife pointed out, there were approximately 1.5 billion reasons not to.

Saw it again last night and a couple new things bothered me. After the massive bombing (that should have killed at least hawkeye and Scott Lang), Don Cheadle is under a bunch of rubble and gets out of his devastated War Machine suit. Ant Man comes and grows huge while holding Hulk, Rocket, and War Machine in his hand to get them out from under all the rubble. When he sets them down on the ground, War Machine is in an all new suit that is bulkier than the one he wore all movie? Where exactly does that suit come from?

Secondly, how does Thanos' whole army get there at the end? He comes through portal, somehow with his ship which is never explained. They also only have one of the Tony Stark hand things that provides the "GPS" for time travel, which I'm assuming Nebula uses to travel forward in time to bring Thanos through. She only has one Pim particle as well. She hands that to Thanos. So how does she get back? This movie has massive plot holes. People are so in love with it so they're rationalizing really bad writing.

FormerFlash said:

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Saw it again last night and a couple new things bothered me. After the massive bombing (that should have killed at least hawkeye and Scott Lang), Don Cheadle is under a bunch of rubble and gets out of his devastated War Machine suit. Ant Man comes and grows huge while holding Hulk, Rocket, and War Machine in his hand to get them out from under all the rubble. When he sets them down on the ground, War Machine is in an all new suit that is bulkier than the one he wore all movie? Where exactly does that suit come from?

Secondly, how does Thanos' whole army get there at the end? He comes through portal, somehow with his ship which is never explained. They also only have one of the Tony Stark hand things that provides the "GPS" for time travel, which I'm assuming Nebula uses to travel forward in time to bring Thanos through. She only has one Pim particle as well. She hands that to Thanos. So how does she get back? This movie has massive plot holes. People are so in love with it so they're rationalizing really bad writing.

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I went to see a comic book romp that closed out a long story line. Enjoyed myself.

Bear8084 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Bear8084 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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I saw it and liked it but as others have said it had some very lazy writing. Some things I have thought were stupid:

1. They bring everyone back from the snap and Clint's (Hawkeye) phone starts going off and it's his wife. So he kept paying her bill, kept her phone charged and it just happened to be right next to her when she came back?

2. How is Peter Parker's whole class still in High school? Did they all get snapped?

3. When they brought people back did the appear where they vanished? What if they were in a plane? On a boat?

4. That would make things really weird. You come back from being snapped out of existence but everyone you know is 5 years older. Maybe they have moved on, remarried, etc.

5. This one is huge. The world would have a massive starvation problem. There would not be enough food for double the population overnight. Let alone housing, jobs, etc.

6. How did Thanos shrink his ship and come through the quantum realm time portal? Sure he had the particles from the Nebula he caught but she only had enough to send the other Nebula back.

7. If Thanos presnap went to the future and died.... how did he ever do the snap then?

8. Didn't they create new timeline by going back? Like when they allowed Loki to take the Tessaract and disappear?

9. They spent all this time talking about how you can't go back and change things..... and then they did exactly that and changed things as they went back for the stones.

10. Then Cap went back and changed things at the end so he could "live his life." Except that in earlier movies it was said that Peggy did marry and have kids.... so if he went back and married her he just erased those kids from existence and changed things.

11. When Cap went back to live he then just sat by while all 22 other movies happened and could have done something but he did nothing. Not very Captain America like.

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Hulk explained all the time travel stuff briefly during the movie. It's not BTTF rules. Doing stuff in the past does not change the future you are currently in.

https://m.ign.com/articles/2019/05/11/avengers-endgame-time-travel-timeline-rules-explained-how-does-it-work

All of Peter Parker's friends were snapped, so they and others snapped away stay in the same grade. More answers probably in the new Spider-Man movie.

Captain America didn't age the first time because he was in a type of deep freeze suspended animation.

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Yes Hulk tried to explain it all... and then they broke his explanations.

Cap went back and lived his life.... but in Hulk's explanation that would have created a different timeline so he wouldn't have been there on the bench.

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2019/04/29/the-avengers-endgame-plot-hole-is-not-really-a-plot-hole-at-all-spoilers/amp/

Probably the best explanation of it all IMO.

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Still a weak explanation and lazy writing.

Even if he had extra particles to time travel it still goes against his character to sit around and do nothing while all the previous movies events happened just so he could live with Peggy.

And in that timeline he creates by going back he rooms to non existence the children she had with her original husband.

And if all he needs are the particles and the suit then what is the point of the giant platform?

How does he travel without that?

Lazy writing all around.

Past Thanos comes to the future and dies.... there would be NO snap.

Then of course everything I pointed out in my original post. They bring everyone back but ignore things like where they were, they are the same age but everyone who didn't get snapped is five years older, Hawkeyes wife's phone was charged and still paid for, etc.

And another good point I saw on another site. In infinity war cap was able to take Thanos on by himself and do pretty well. But in endgame he is with Thor and iron man and Thanos is able to fight them all off.... with no infinity stones....

Overall weak writing on just about every point of the movie.

FormerFlash said:

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Saw it again last night and a couple new things bothered me. After the massive bombing (that should have killed at least hawkeye and Scott Lang), Don Cheadle is under a bunch of rubble and gets out of his devastated War Machine suit. Ant Man comes and grows huge while holding Hulk, Rocket, and War Machine in his hand to get them out from under all the rubble. When he sets them down on the ground, War Machine is in an all new suit that is bulkier than the one he wore all movie? Where exactly does that suit come from?

Secondly, how does Thanos' whole army get there at the end? He comes through portal, somehow with his ship which is never explained. They also only have one of the Tony Stark hand things that provides the "GPS" for time travel, which I'm assuming Nebula uses to travel forward in time to bring Thanos through. She only has one Pim particle as well. She hands that to Thanos. So how does she get back? This movie has massive plot holes. People are so in love with it so they're rationalizing really bad writing.

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His army was in his ship but they never explain how his ship gets there.

I guess the viewer is just supposed to figure that once he had the second nebula and the pym particles he reverse engineered everything he needed.

Weak writing again.

quash said:

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FormerFlash said:

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Saw it again last night and a couple new things bothered me. After the massive bombing (that should have killed at least hawkeye and Scott Lang), Don Cheadle is under a bunch of rubble and gets out of his devastated War Machine suit. Ant Man comes and grows huge while holding Hulk, Rocket, and War Machine in his hand to get them out from under all the rubble. When he sets them down on the ground, War Machine is in an all new suit that is bulkier than the one he wore all movie? Where exactly does that suit come from?

Secondly, how does Thanos' whole army get there at the end? He comes through portal, somehow with his ship which is never explained. They also only have one of the Tony Stark hand things that provides the "GPS" for time travel, which I'm assuming Nebula uses to travel forward in time to bring Thanos through. She only has one Pim particle as well. She hands that to Thanos. So how does she get back? This movie has massive plot holes. People are so in love with it so they're rationalizing really bad writing.

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I went to see a comic book romp that closed out a long story line. Enjoyed myself.

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Pretty much. Sounds like a bunch that just like to nitpick. Writing wasn't that bad and it is one of the better superhero movies to come out, especially compared to the new DC Universe movies like Batman vs. Superman and Justice League which had even worse writing.

As explained before, past Thanos coming to the future and dying doesn't mean there is no Snap in their time travel rules. Different timelines.

Something else a friend brought up to me....

Cap went back at the end of the movie to return everything but had no shield (it was broken in the battle) but then had one when he showed up as an old man on the bench.... where did that one come from?

cowboycwr said:

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Something else a friend brought up to me....

Cap went back at the end of the movie to return everything but had no shield (it was broken in the battle) but then had one when he showed up as an old man on the bench.... where did that one come from?

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Different timeline.

quash said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Something else a friend brought up to me....

Cap went back at the end of the movie to return everything but had no shield (it was broken in the battle) but then had one when he showed up as an old man on the bench.... where did that one come from?

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Different timeline.

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So he stole it from another timeline even though the point of returning the stones was to not create new timelines??? Yeah makes no sense.

cowboycwr said:

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quash said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Something else a friend brought up to me....

Cap went back at the end of the movie to return everything but had no shield (it was broken in the battle) but then had one when he showed up as an old man on the bench.... where did that one come from?

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Different timeline.

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So he stole it from another timeline even though the point of returning the stones was to not create new timelines??? Yeah makes no sense.

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Let's face it, there were plot holes you could drive Thanos' giant space ship through.